The Lawfare Podcast

Greg Rosen, now an attorney at Rogers Joseph O’Donnell, spoke with James Pearce, Lawfare Legal Fellow, about his time prosecuting federal crimes in the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the District of Columbia. He focused mostly on the investigation and prosecution that followed the attack of the U.S. Capitol on January 6, 2021. He discussed how the U.S. Attorney’s Office carried out the largest investigation in the history of the country, how it handled the multiple investigative and logistical challenges the prosecutions posed, and how to think about the Supreme Court’s decision holding that the congressional obstruction count charged in many Jan. 6 cases was misapplied. Rosen also weighed in on the D.C. U.S. Attorney’s under the second Trump administration. 

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In a live conversation on June 13, Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Legal Fellow James Pearce and Lawfare Senior Editors Anna Bower, Quinta Jurecic, and Roger Parloff to discuss the legality of President Trump federalizing the California National Guard to send them to L.A., the pretrial detention hearing of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, updates in Alien Enemies Act litigation, the indictment of Representative LaMonica McIver, and more.You can find information on legal challenges to Trump administration actions here. And check out Lawfare’s new homepage on the litigation, new Bluesky account, and new WITOAD merch

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From December 26, 2023: The Supreme Court during World War II issued some of the most notorious opinions in its history, including the Japanese exclusion case, Korematsu v. United States, and the Nazi saboteur military commission case, Ex parte Quirin. For a fresh take on these and related cases and a broader perspective on the Supreme Court during World War II, Jack Goldsmith sat down with Cliff Sloan, a professor at Georgetown Law Center and a former Special Envoy for Guantanamo Closure, to discuss his new book, which is called “The Court at War: FDR, His Justices, and the World They Made.”  

They discussed how the Court's decisions during World War II were informed by the very close personal bonds of affection that most of the justices had with President Roosevelt and by the justices’ intimate attachment to and involvement with the war effort. They also discussed the fascinating internal deliberations in Korematsu, Quirin, and other momentous cases, and the puzzle of why the same court that issued these decisions also, during the same period, issued famous rights-expanding decisions in the areas of reproductive freedom, voting rights, and freedom of speech.

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From June 21, 2023: Carolyn Cole, a Pulitzer-Prize winning staff photographer for the Los Angeles Times, has covered wars and other conflicts in Afghanistan, Iraq, Israel, Kosovo, Liberia, Sudan, Nicaragua, Haiti, and the U.S.-Mexico border. Over the course of her 30 year career, she has been seriously injured on the job precisely once—when members of the Minnesota State Patrol pushed Cole over a retaining wall and pepper sprayed her so badly that her eyes were swollen shut. Cole was in Minneapolis in the summer of 2020 to cover the protests after the murder of George Floyd. She was wearing a flak jacket marked TV, a helmet, and carried press credentials at the time of her attack. 

Cole’s story is not unique among the press corps. According to a new report out this week from the Knight First Amendment Institute called “Covering Democracy: Protests, the Police, and the Press,” in 2020, at least 129 journalists were arrested while covering social justice protests and more than 400 suffered physical attacks, 80 percent of them at the hands of law enforcement. As Joel Simon, author of the report and former Executive Director of the Committee to Protect Journalists, writes, “The presence of the media is essential to dissent; it is the oxygen that gives protests life. Media coverage is one of the primary mechanisms by which protesters’ grievances and demands reach the broader public.”

Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien sat down with Joel, as well as Katy Glenn Bass, the Research Director of the Knight First Amendment Institute, to discuss the report, the long legacy of law enforcement attacks on journalists covering protests in America, who counts as “the press” in the eyes of the court, and what can be done to better ensure press freedom.

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For today's episode, Lawfare Senior Editor and General Counsel Scott R. Anderson sat down with three leading legal experts on domestic military deployments: William Banks of Syracuse University College of Law, Laura Dickinson of the George Washington University Law School, and Chris Mirasola of the University of Houston Law Center. They discussed the legality of the Trump administration's decision to deploy U.S. troops on the streets of Los Angeles, where the state of California's legal challenge is likely to head, the Trump administration's broader ambitions to involve the military in immigration enforcement, and what it all may mean for the domestic use of the military elsewhere moving forward.

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Today, it’s Episode Seven of Escalation, our latest narrative series co-hosted by Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien and Ukraine Fellow Anastasiia Lapatina. Throughout the show, Nastya and Tyler trace the history of U.S.-Ukrainian relations from the time of Ukrainian independence through the present. You can listen to Escalation in its entirety, as well as our other narrative series, on our Lawfare Presents channel, wherever you get your podcasts.

In the season finale of Escalation, Nastya recounts Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022. The western world is shocked, as President Biden and Congress attempt to send weapons to Ukraine to fight back. But fundamentally different perspectives on the fight emerge, leaving Ukraine's fate uncertain and its relationship with the United States in jeopardy.

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Lawfare Contributing Editor Renée DiResta sits down with Clay Risen to talk about his book “Red Scare: Blacklists, McCarthyism, and the Making of Modern America,” exploring the historical context of McCarthyism and its relevance to contemporary issues. They discuss the dynamics of accusation versus evidence during the Red Scare, the impact of vigilantism, the erosion of civil liberties, and the lessons that can be drawn from this period in American history. Risen highlights lesser-known figures who resisted the Red Scare and examines the political opportunism that characterized the era, drawing parallels to current political challenges.

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This week, Scott sat down with Lawfare Senior Editors Molly Reynolds and Quinta Jurecic, and Contributing Editor Chris Mirasola, to focus on the week’s big domestic news, including:

• “Drama Majors, Meet Major Drama.” In the glittering city of Los Angeles, the Trump administration has taken the dramatic step of calling up the California National Guard and deploying them alongside active duty Marines to secure federal personnel and facilities, specifically against protestors demonstrating against the Trump administration’s draconian immigration policies. Is this the beginning of a broader threat to the constitutional order, as some of Trump’s critics say it is? And what should we make of President Trump’s suggestion that he may yet invoke the controversial Insurrection Act?
• “Precision Rescission, What’s Your Mission?” The Trump administration has asked Congress to formally rescind a slice of the federal spending it has been withholding since entering office, specifically relating to foreign assistance and the Corporation for Public Broadcasting—a request the House seems poised to move on this week. How likely is it that Congress will agree to the cut in funds? And what will the implications be for relevant legal challenges and Trump’s broader agenda?
• “There and Back Again.” After an unexpected journey and epic delays on the part of the government, the Trump administration has finally repatriated Kilmar Abrego Garcia, the man who was mistakenly deported to El Salvador—only to charge him with human trafficking and other federal crimes in Tennessee. How serious are the charges against him? And is this likely to be a win or loss for the administration’s broader immigration agenda?

In object lessons, Molly shared a ranking of New York mayoral candidates by their bagel orders—and whose order is so bad, it’s a schmear on their very New Yorker-ness. Quinta recommends Ava Kofman’s profile of Curtis Yarvin in the New Yorker as a masterclass in the art of meticulous evisceration. Scott introduced his 4-year-old to his old Tintin books by Hergé—because it’s never too early to get into the drawbacks of colonialism. And Chris fled real DC drama for fake DC drama with The Residence on Netflix.

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Christina Knight, Machine Learning Safety and Evals Lead at Scale AI and former senior policy adviser at the U.S. AI Safety Institute (AISI), joins Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at Texas and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to break down what it means to test and evaluate frontier AI models as well as the status of international efforts to coordinate on those efforts.

This recording took place before the administration changed the name of the U.S. AI Safety Institute to the U.S. Center for AI Standards and Innovation. 

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Today, it’s Episode Six of Escalation, our latest narrative series co-hosted by Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien and Ukraine Fellow Anastasiia Lapatina. Throughout the show, Nastya and Tyler trace the history of U.S.-Ukrainian relations from the time of Ukrainian independence through the present. You can listen to Escalation in its entirety, as well as our other narrative series, on our Lawfare Presents channel, wherever you get your podcasts.

Episode Six picks up the thread in 2019, when the relationship between the United States and Ukraine faces one of its biggest tests during a phone call between Donald Trump and Volodymyr Zelenskyy. We then take listeners into the halls of Congress to follow the Ukrainian Cultural Forces as they struggle to generate support for the war on the eve of the 2024 presidential election, in part due to the fallout of that infamous phone call. 

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Lawfare Contributing Editor Renée DiResta sits down with Daphne Keller, Director of the Program on Platform Regulation at Stanford University's Cyber Policy Center; Dean Jackson, Contributing Editor at Tech Policy Press and fellow at American University's Center for Security, Innovation, and New Technology; and Joan Barata, Senior Legal Fellow at The Future of Free Speech Project at Vanderbilt University and fellow at Stanford’s Program on Platform Regulation, to make European tech regulation interesting. They discuss the European Union’s Disinformation Code of Practice and its transition, on July 1, from voluntary framework co-authored by Big Tech, to legally binding obligation under the Digital Services Act (DSA). This sounds like a niche bureaucratic change—but it's provided a news hook for the Trump Administration and its allies in far-right parties across Europe to allege once again that they are being suppressed by Big Tech, and that this transition portends the end of free speech on the internet.

Does it? No. But what do the Code and the DSA actually do? It's worth understanding the nuances of these regulations and how they may impact transparency, accountability, and free expression. The group discusses topics including Senator Marco Rubio’s recent visa ban policy aimed at “foreign censors,” Romania’s annulled election, and whether European regulation risks overreach or fails to go far enough.

For more on this topic:

• Hate Speech: Comparing the US and EU Approaches
• The European Commission's Approach to DSA Systemic Risk is Concerning for Freedom of Expression
• The Far Right’s War on Content Moderation Comes to Europe 
• Regulation or Repression? How the Right Hijacked the DSA Debate
• Lawful but Awful? Control over Legal Speech by Platforms, Governments, and Internet Users
• The Rise of the Compliant Speech Platform
• Three Questions Prompted by Rubio’s Threatened Visa Restrictions on ‘Foreign Nationals Who Censor Americans’
• Will the DSA Save Democracy? The Test of the Recent Presidential Election in Romania

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In a live conversation on June 6, Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Legal Fellow James Pearce and Lawfare Senior Editors Anna Bower, and Roger Parloff to discuss a breaking Supreme Court opinion which blocks discovery against DOGE, the criminal indictment of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, President Trump’s recent executive order targeting Harvard, legal challenges to the mass terminations of federal personnel, the public feud between Donald Trump and Elon Musk, and more.You can find information on legal challenges to Trump administration actions here. And check out Lawfare’s new homepage on the litigation, new Bluesky account, and new WITOAD merch.

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From March 14, 2023: For years, the international community has wrestled with how to reconcile sanctions policies targeting terrorist groups and other malevolent actors with the need to provide humanitarian assistance in areas under those groups’ control. Late last year, both the Biden administration and the UN Security Council took major steps toward a new approach on this issue, installing broad carveouts for humanitarian assistance into existing sanctions regimes. 

To talk through these changes, Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sat down with two leading sanctions experts: Rachel Alpert, a Partner at the law firm Jenner & Block and former State Department attorney, and Alex Zerden, the Founder and Principal of Capitol Peak Strategies and a former Treasury Department official, including at the U.S. Embassy in Kabul, Afghanistan. They talked about the long-standing issues surrounding humanitarian assistance, what these changes may mean in jurisdictions like Afghanistan, and where more changes may yet be forthcoming. 

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From January 18, 2024: Last month, the Department of Defense released its first-ever policy on civilian harm reduction. But as Marc Garlasco recently wrote in Lawfare, “[T]he policy comes at an awkward time … The U.S. military has issued guidance on how to protect civilians during operations just as its close ally Israel has reportedly killed thousands of Palestinians with American bombs.” 

And yet, many aspects of the new policy are nothing short of groundbreaking.

Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien sat down with Marc, a former targeting professional and war crimes investigator and current military advisor at PAX, as well as Emily Tripp, the Director of Airwars, a transparency watchdog NGO which tracks, assesses, archives, and investigates civilian harm claims in conflict-affected nations. They discussed the state of civilian harm worldwide; the good, the bad, and the ugly of the Pentagon’s new policy; and recent efforts to get U.S. allies and partners to buy in. 

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Lawfare Senior Editor Anna Bower has been on a quest. She wants to identify the administrator of DOGE. It's partly a comedic bit. And her lengthy article on the subject on Lawfare last week is laugh-out-loud funny. But it's also deadly serious. She came on the Lawfare Podcast to discuss the serious questions behind WITAOD with Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes.

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Today, it’s Episode Five of Escalation, our latest narrative series co-hosted by Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien and Ukraine Fellow Anastasiia Lapatina. Throughout the show, Nastya and Tyler trace the history of U.S.-Ukrainian relations from the time of Ukrainian independence through the present. You can listen to Escalation in its entirety, as well as our other narrative series, on our Lawfare Presents channel, wherever you get your podcasts.

In Episode Five, Ukraine’s Russia-backed president refuses to sign a deal with the European Union—and millions of Ukrainians take to the streets to force him out. Then the West watches as Russia invades Crimea and parts of Eastern Ukraine. 

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It’s been a big week in Ukrainian-Russian relations. There were surprise attacks, an amassing of troops, the blowing up of bridges, and peace talks in Istanbul that didn’t really go anywhere. To talk through all of this and more, Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare’s Ukraine Fellow Anastasiia Lapatina and Legal Fellow Mykhailo Soldatenko.

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This week, Scott sat down with Lawfare’s Ukraine Fellow Anastasiia Lapatina and Contributing Editors Eric Ciaramella and Alex Zerden to talk through the week’s big national security and foreign policy news, including: 

• “The Road to Damascus.” Over the past two weeks, the Trump administration has done an extraordinary about-face on U.S. policy towards Syria, installing almost universal exceptions to most existing sanctions programs and promising to end others. European and other allies seem poised to follow suit, all in an effort to forestall the feared collapse of the post-Assad transitional government being headed by Ahmed al-Sharaa, himself a former terrorist leader. But will it be enough to put post-Civil War Syria on the road to recovery? And will this new policy orientation prove sustainable?
• “No Fly Zone.” Ukraine struck a historic blow deep into Russian territory over the weekend with a daring series of coordinated drone attacks—dubbed “Operation Spider Web”—that may have wiped out as much as a third of Moscow’s strategically important long range bombers. But will the attack help drive the costs of the conflict home to Russia, or trigger another round of escalation? And how will it be received by the Trump administration, several senior members of which are skeptical of U.S. support for Ukraine?
• “Double Taxation.” President Trump’s aggressive use of tariffs suffered a pair of defeats in federal court last week, as two different courts chose to enjoin them, for two different sets of reasons. While both decisions have since been stayed, it’s a discouraging sign for the viability of the legal authorities being relied on by the Trump administration. Yet President Trump has continued to threaten tariffs aggressively, including against Europe. How big a threat are these legal holdings to the Trump administration’s policy agenda? And how will they impact its efforts to negotiate new bilateral trade deals, with allies and rivals alike?

In Object Lessons, Eric polished off the last of The Rehearsal’s Season 2 and was left in awe of the show’s ability to actually become a show. Nastya returned from colder climates with a warm endorsement of all things Finland: its history, its icy stare at Russia, and its impressive ability to survive both. Speaking of war, Scott dove sword-first into fantasy, reminded of Joe Abercrombie’s The First Law trilogy after the new release of “The Devils.” And Alex kept it historical with a recommendation of “The Watchdog: How the Truman Committee Battled Corruption and Helped Win World War Two,” by Steve Drummond.

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Political scientists who study democratic backsliding—the slow erosion of a country’s institutions—have raised alarms about the state of democracy in the United States under the second Trump administration. At the same time, the administration has embraced technology—particularly AI—as a tool for implementing many of its policies, from immigration enforcement to slashing government functions and staffing. And the ties between Washington, D.C. and Silicon Valley appear tighter than ever, with Elon Musk wielding unprecedented control over the executive branch through his quasi-governmental DOGE initiative. 

How should we understand the connection between technology and democratic backsliding? Are they interlinked at this moment in the United States? How has technology played a role in supporting or undermining democracy during other historical moments?

On May 2, Lawfare Senior Editor Quinta Jurecic moderated a panel discussion on these questions at Fordham Law School’s Transatlantic AI and Law institute, featuring panelists Joseph Cox, a journalist and co-founder of 404 Media; Orly Lobel, the Warren Distinguished Professor of Law and founding director of the Center for Employment and Labor Policy (CELP) at the University of San Diego; Aziz Huq, the Frank and Bernice J. Professor at the University of Chicago Law School; and James Grimmelmann, the Tessler Family Professor of Digital and Information Law at Cornell Tech and Cornell Law School. 

Thanks to Fordham for recording and sharing audio of the panel, and to Chinmayi Sharma and Olivier Sylvain of Fordham Law School for organizing the event.

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Today, it’s Episode Four of Escalation, our latest narrative series co-hosted by Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien and Ukraine Fellow Anastasiia Lapatina. Throughout the show, Nastya and Tyler trace the history of U.S.-Ukrainian relations from the time of Ukrainian independence through the present. You can listen to Escalation in its entirety, as well as our other narrative series, on our Lawfare Presents channel, wherever you get your podcasts.

Episode Four explores the interconnected stories of a dirty presidential campaign, an assassination attempt, and a revolution, all of which preceded the 2008 NATO summit, in which the United States and European allies concoct a high-risk plan to protect Ukraine going forward.

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For today’s episode, Lawfare General Counsel and Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sat down with Contributing Editor and leading sanctions expert Peter Harrell to talk over the not one but two judicial rulings that enjoined President Trump's tariffs last week.

They discussed the similarities and differences between the two rulings, what seems likely to happen on appeal, and what it all might mean for the other, more well-established uses the executive branch makes of the 1977 International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA), including its myriad longstanding sanctions regimes. 

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In a live conversation on May 30, Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editors Anna Bower, Scott Anderson, and Roger Parloff to discuss legal challenges against President Trump’s executive actions, including two court rulings finding President Trump’s IEEPA tariffs to be unlawful, the government’s appeal of those rulings, the Supreme Court allowing Trump to end humanitarian status for 500,000 migrants, updates in CREW’s Freedom of Information Act lawsuit against DOGE, and so much more.You can find information on legal challenges to Trump administration actions here. And check out Lawfare’s new homepage on the litigation here and new Bluesky account here.

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From May 21, 2024: Across the country, state lawmakers are joining the effort to address the perceived national security threat from China by passing a number of measures attempting to curb Chinese influences in their states. One such effort in Florida prevents Chinese citizens from owning property in the state. Lawfare’s Associate Editor Hyemin Han spoke with Matthew Erie, Associate Professor at the University of Oxford, about what makes the Florida law and the ongoing litigation challenging it particularly notable, the state of property rights challenges against Chinese citizens across the U.S., the tension between state and federal oversight of national security issues, and how this fits into the growing economic battles between the U.S. and China.

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From May 23, 2024: For today’s episode, Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sat down with Chimène Keitner, a Professor of Law at UC Davis School of Law and former Counselor on International Law at the U.S. Department of State, to discuss the recent applications for arrest warrants filed by the prosecutor for the International Criminal Court (ICC), accusing several senior Hamas leaders as well as Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Minister of Defense Yoav Gallant of crimes against humanity and war crimes in Gaza. They discussed the nature of the allegations, how the ICC has come to exercise jurisdiction over the Gaza conflict, and what impact this recent action may have on the broader conflict. 

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Josh Batson, a research scientist at Anthropic, joins Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the Texas Law and Senior Editor at Lawfare, to break down two research papers—“Mapping the Mind of a Large Language Model” and “Tracing the thoughts of a large language model”—that uncovered some important insights about how advanced generative AI models work. The two discuss those findings as well as the broader significance of interpretability and explainability research.

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Today, it’s Episode 3 of Escalation, our latest narrative series co-hosted by Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien and Ukraine Fellow Anastasiia Lapatina. Throughout the show, Nastya and Tyler trace the history of U.S.-Ukrainian relations from the time of Ukrainian independence through the present. You can listen to Escalation in its entirety, as well as our other narrative series, on our Lawfare Presents channel, wherever you get your podcasts.

Episode 3 picks up the story in the late 90s, as Russia reverts back to its corrupt, authoritarian ways, and Ukraine begins to slide backward with it. In Ukraine, that corruption will lead to a gruesome murder and cover-up, while in Russia, it will destroy any hopes for an emerging democracy. 

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Lawfare’s Ukraine Fellow Anastasiia Lapatina sits down with Minna Ålander, an Associate Fellow at the Chatham House Europe Programme, to discuss Russia's buildup of military infrastructure along its borders with NATO member countries, particularly along the Finnish border, and what European countries are doing to prepare for a potential clash with Russia. They also talk through Finland’s history with Russia and its security capabilities, especially in light of Russia’s actions in Ukraine, the integration of Finland and Sweden into NATO, potential scenarios of Russian aggression, and the critical role of the U.S. in NATO's security framework.

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This week, Scott sat down with the AI-oriented Lawfare Senior Editors Alan Rozenshtein and Kevin Frazier to talk through the week’s top AI-focused news stories, including:

• “Oh Sure, Now He’s Into Free Trade.” President Trump has repealed the Biden administration’s rule setting strict limits on the diffusion of high-end AI technology, opening the door to the global transfer of the technologies powering U.S. AI development, including advanced chipsets. And we’re already seeing results of that policy in a recent deal the president signed with the UAE that would work toward the transfer of advanced semiconductors. How should AI diffusion fit into the broader global strategy surrounding the AI industry in the United States? And what approach does the Trump administration seem inclined to take?
• “Paving Over the Playing Field.” House Republicans recently included a provision in a House bill that would have preempted state efforts to legislate on and regulate the AI industry for a decade. Is this sort of federal preemption a prudent step given the broader competitive dynamics with China? Or does it go too far in insulating AI companies and users from accountability for their actions, particularly where they put the public interest and safety at risk?
• “Speechless.” A federal district court in Florida has issued a notable opinion of first impression in a tragic case involving a teenager who committed suicide, allegedly as a result of encouragement from an AI bot powered by the company character.ai. Among other holdings, the judge concluded that the AI’s output was not itself protected speech. Is this holding correct? And what impact will it have on the development of the AI industry?

In Object Lessons, the AI Guys went surprisingly analog. Alan recommended some good, ol’ fashioned, 19th-century imperial espionage with “The Great Game,” by Peter Hopkirk. Kevin, meanwhile, is keeping an eye on a different kind of game: the NCAA Division I Baseball Championship, in which he’s throwing up some Hook 'em Horns for Texas. And Scott is trying to “Economize” his time with The Economist’s Espresso app, a quick, curated read that fits neatly into a busy morning.

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It’s been nearly one year since Donald Trump was convicted on 34 felony counts in Manhattan criminal court. Lawfare Senior Editor Anna Bower sits down with New York Times reporter Jonah Bromwich to talk about Jonah’s new book on the subject, “Dragon on Centre Street,” take a look back at the trial, consider its legacy, and discuss what comes next.

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In April, we ran Episode One of our narrative podcast series Escalation on this feed. On Tuesday and Thursday afternoons for the next few weeks, we’ll be posting the rest of the series, starting today with Episode Two.

Escalation is a multi-part narrative podcast co-hosted by Lawfare’s Managing Director Tyler McBrien and Ukraine Fellow Anastasiia Lapatina, covering the history of U.S.-Ukrainian relations from the time of Ukrainian independence through the present. You can subscribe to the whole series, as well as our other narrative series, on the Lawfare Presents channel.

In Episode Two: No Guarantees: Newly-independent Ukraine inherits a nuclear arsenal from the former Soviet Union. So the United States, Russia, and Ukraine craft a high-stakes deal to disarm Ukraine in exchange for national security protection. Some see it as a diplomatic success, but for others, it’s a betrayal.

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John Keller, now a partner at Walden, Macht & Haran, channeled his experience as the former Chief of the Public Integrity Section at the Department of Justice to discuss three recent developments with James Pearce, Lawfare Legal Fellow. They discussed proposed changes to the Public Integrity Section that could hamper the Justice Department’s ability to investigate and prosecute corruption matters in a fair and impartial matter. Keller weighed in on whether the Justice Department has a viable prosecution theory for criminal threats or incitement in the case of former FBI Director, Jim Comey. And they discussed criminal contempt: what it is, how it differs from civil contempt, the recent criminal contempt probable-cause finding by Judge Boasberg in an Alien Enemies Act case in the District of Columbia, and whether the federal rule permitting appointment of a special prosecutor outside the Justice Department may pose constitutional separation-of-powers concerns.

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From May 3, 2024: Over the past several years, governors around the country from both political parties have used their respective National Guards for an increasingly unconventional array of domestic missions, ranging from teaching in public schools to regulating immigration at the southern border. To discuss how this trend may impact the National Guard—and our broader democracy, particularly in this pivotal election year—Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson recently sat down with a panel of senior former National Guard and Defense Department officials, including: General Craig McKinley, General Joseph Lengyel, Brigadier General Allyson Solomon, Major General Daryl Bohac, and former Assistant Secretary of Defense Dr. Paul Stockton. 

A video recording of the panel is available at https://www.brookings.edu/events/domestic-deployment-of-the-national-guard/.

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From December 4, 2023: Is the Fourth Amendment doing any work anymore? In a forthcoming article entitled “Government Purchases of Private Data,” Matthew Tokson, a professor at the University of Utah S.J. Quinney College of Law, details how, in recent years, federal and state agencies have begun to purchase location information and other consumer data, as government attorneys have mostly concluded that purchasing data is a valid way to bypass Fourth Amendment restrictions. 

Lawfare Senior Editor Stephanie Pell sat down with Matthew to discuss this article, where he attempts to bring this constitutional evasion to light. They talked about the two main arguments offered for why the purchase of private data does not violate the Fourth Amendment, his responses to these arguments, and the recommendations he makes to courts, legislators, and government agencies to address the Fourth Amendment and privacy concerns surrounding government purchases of private data.

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In a live conversation on May 22, Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editors Quinta Jurecic and Roger Parloff and Lawfare Legal Fellow James Pearce to discuss legal challenges against President Trump’s executive actions, including the a court hearing over the attempted deportation of immigrants to South Sudan, the arrest of Democratic Representative LaMonica McIver, the Supreme Court opinion allowing President Trump to remove members of independent agencies, and more.

You can find information on legal challenges to Trump administration actions here. And check out Lawfare’s new homepage on the litigation here and new Bluesky account here.

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Global Cyber Alliance’s President and CEO Phil Reitinger and Chief Business Officer Komal Bazaz Smith discuss with Justin Sherman critical cybersecurity issues facing core internet infrastructure, including the role of small, often under-appreciated, and frequently underfunded nonprofits in keeping the internet secure and functioning. They talk about their organization’s Common Good Cyber project (video here) to address gaps, detail how better data could help inform internet security efforts, and talk about how the current landscape is shifting internet security into the future.

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This week, Scott sat down with a particularly baritone cast of Lawfare colleagues—co-host emeritus Benjamin Wittes, Foreign Policy Editor Dana Stuster, and Senior Editor (aka Legal Correspondent) Roger Parloff—to discuss the week’s biggest national security news stories, including:

• “Let’s Sheikh On It.” President Trump completed a surprisingly historic trip to the Persian Gulf last week, which began with the type of fanfare that Trump loves and only Saudi Arabia can provide and ended with the controversial gift of a new Air Force One from Qatar at the president’s reported request. In between, however, Trump reiterated his calls for an end to the Gaza conflict, became directly involved in negotiating the release of the last living American-Israeli hostage from Hamas, and announced a dramatic about-face in U.S. sanctions policy toward the new regime in Syria that caught even his closest advisers by surprise—all measures that are unlikely to be greeted warmly by the man who has traditionally been Trump’s closest regional ally, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. How big a pivot point was Trump’s trip? And what could its implications be for U.S. policy towards the region?
• “Not Retiring from a Fight.” The Supreme Court issued an unprecedented third opinion off its emergency docket this past week in the inaptly named A.A.R.P. v. Trump, part of the ongoing litigation over the Trump administration’s controversial efforts to remove Venezuelan nationals under the Alien Enemies Act. In a 7-2 ruling, the Court held that the summary notice and opportunity to challenge that U.S. officials had provided to some individuals prior to their removal was inadequate. But as litigation through the lower courts continues, what impact is this holding likely to have on the administration’s broader immigration policies?
• “Shell Shocked.” Former FBI Director James Comey found himself at the center of an unlikely controversy this week, when his decision to relay a photo of shells arranged to form the numbers “8647” that he reportedly found on the beach was interpreted as a death threat against President Trump, triggering a Secret Service interview and potentially more legal consequences to come. How seriously should this incident be taken? And what does it tell us about the Trump administration’s use of prosecutorial discretion?

In Object Lessons, as white smoke rose over the Vatican, Roger also turned his gaze heavenward—diving into Benjamin Blech and Roy Doliner’s “The Sistine Secrets” to uncover the subtexts Michelangelo left behind. Inspired by the same papal events, Scott turned to Conclave for a peek inside the process. Ben planted seeds of solidarity and resilience (or was that resistance?) across from the Russian embassy. And Dana’s incoming students at Franklin and Marshall College are about to share in his appreciation for Osamu Dazai’s “The Setting Sun.”

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Page Hedley, Senior Advisor at Forecasting Research Institute and co-author of the Not for Private Gain letter urging state attorneys general to stop OpenAI’s planned restructuring, and Gad Weiss, the Wagner Fellow in Law & Business at NYU Law, join Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at Texas Law and Senior Editor at Lawfare, and Alan Rozenshtein, Associate Professor at Minnesota Law and Senior Editor at Lawfare, to analyze news of OpenAI once again modifying its corporate governance structure. The group break down the rationale for the proposed modification, the relevant underlying law, and the significance of corporate governance in shaping the direction of AI development.

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Despite the frenzy of U.S.-led diplomacy around reaching a ceasefire in Russia’s war against Ukraine, the front line has been far from quiet. In fact, the war is now deadlier than ever before. To unpack the recent front line developments, Lawfare’s Ukraine Fellow Anastasiia Lapatina talks with Francis Farrell, a reporter at the Kyiv Independent who covers military and security dynamics in Ukraine.

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El Salvador’s President Nayib Bukele has made a lot of headlines recently in the United States for his partnership with the Trump administration. Bukele has helped enable President Trump’s scheme to remove supposed Venezuelan gang members from the U.S. under the Alien Enemies Act, housing these detainees in the notorious CECOT prison. In court, the Justice Department has claimed it has no ability to request that Bukele return these detainees to the United States, even after Bukele posed for photos next to Trump in the Oval Office.

The use of CECOT is key to the Trump administration’s effort to paint migrants as dangerous criminals. But what is Bukele getting out of the scheme, and what do things look like from within El Salvador? 

To understand this, Lawfare Senior Editor Quinta Jurecic spoke with Noah Bullock, Executive Director of the Central American human rights organization Cristosal. Their conversation places CECOT in context of broader efforts by Bukele to consolidate his power and erode Salvadoran democracy. It also addresses Bukele’s ongoing crackdown on dissent in El Salvador over the last week—a crackdown that most recently included the sudden arrest on March 18 of Noah’s colleague Ruth López, who heads Cristosal’s anti-corruption work. 

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In a live conversation on May 16, Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editors Anna Bower, Quinta Jurecic, and Roger Parloff and Lawfare Legal Fellow James Pearce to discuss legal challenges against President Trump’s executive actions, including the Friday hearing in the Abrego Garcia litigation, the Supreme Court’s ruling in an Alien Enemies Act case, oral arguments at the Supreme Court over President Trump’s birthright citizenship executive order, and so much more.You can find information on legal challenges to Trump administration actions here.

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From September 26, 2023: On August 21, the Human Rights Watch released a report detailing systematic abuses of Ethiopian migrants and asylum seekers at the Saudi Arabia-Yemen border. Researchers interviewed dozens of Ethiopian migrants and asylum seekers and found that Saudi border guards had used explosive weapons on them and shot migrants at close range.

Lawfare’s Associate Editor of Communications Anna Hickey sat down with Joey Shea, a researcher in the Middle East and North Africa Division of Human Rights Watch who investigates human rights abuses in Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates. They discussed the Human Rights Watch recent report, how the international community has responded so far, and the human rights record of Prince Mohammed bin Salman since he ascended the throne in 2015. 

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From January 4, 2022: Government secrecy is pervasive when it comes to national security and foreign affairs, and it’s becoming more and more common for state and even local governments to invoke government secrecy rationales that in the past, only the president of the United States and the national intelligence community were able to claim. While some of the secrecy is no doubt necessary to ensure that police investigations aren't compromised and state and local officials are getting candid advice from their staff, government secrecy directly threatens government transparency and thus democratic accountability. Alan Rozenshtein spoke about these issues with Christina Koningisor, a law professor at the University of Utah and the author of “Secrecy Creep” a recently published article in the University of Pennsylvania Law Review, along with the Lawfare post summarizing her work.

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For today’s episode, Lawfare General Counsel and Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sat down with Contributing Editor Joel Braunold, the Managing Director of the S. Daniel Abraham Center for Middle East Peace, for the latest in their series of podcast conversations delving into the latest developments relating to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and related regional issues.

This time, they discussed the state of the Gaza conflict, what Trump’s recent trip to the Middle East says about his relationship with regional leaders, his dramatic moves on Syria sanctions, his administration’s increasingly direct role in hostage negotiations with Hamas, and what it all means for the stability of Israel’s current government—among many, many other issues.

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This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Natalie Orpett, Tyler McBrien, and Daniel Byman to talk through the week’s big national security news, including:

• “Borderline Behavior.” A major flare-up over the disputed region of Kashmir took place this past week, leading to a major exchange of hostilities between the nuclear powers of India and Pakistan before they agreed to a U.S.-brokered ceasefire—one that is mostly holding, despite alleged violations on both sides. How durable a resolution does this seem likely to be? And what additional steps need to be taken to preserve peace?
• “Parting Ways.” President Trump announced a major change to U.S. policies in the Red Sea this week, in the form of a ceasefire with the Yemeni armed group and de facto government Ansar Allah (also known as the Houthis), in which they would cease attacks on U.S. shipping. But the credibility of this commitment is in doubt, as are the implications of U.S. actions for shipping through the Red Sea more broadly. What should we make of this major policy shift? 
• “First Class Problems.” President Trump announced this week that he would be accepting the gift of a luxury jet from the government of Qatar for use as Air Force One during his presidency, which would then be transferred to his foundation shortly before he leaves office in 2029. How big a problem is this? And how can he accept this gift, given that the Constitution’s Foreign Emoluments Clause prohibits “accept[ing]...any present…of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State”?

In Object Lessons, Tyler delighted in the Financial Times’s trolling of its own “Lunch with the FT,” in which Sam Altman’s kitchen and gross misuse of olive oil becomes a bizarre metaphor for OpenAI. Natalie delighted in some hometown, Pope-town pride (and some Lou Malnati's pizza). Scott delighted in discovering both Dolcezza and their affogato with decaf espresso, a dessert for those who crave flavor and excitement but who also like sleep. And Dan, in utterly failing his wife, delighted in reaping the benefits of her Mother’s Day gift: a little contraption that sits somewhere between wellness hack and medieval torture rack.

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For today's episode, Lawfare Foreign Policy Editor Daniel Byman talked with Evan Braden Montgomery and Toshi Yoshihara, both Senior Fellows at the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, to discuss their recent Lawfare article, "Beijing's Changing Invasion Calculus: How China Might Put Taiwan in its Crosshairs." 

Together they discuss how China might use a blockade, subversion, and nuclear threats to intimidate Taiwan, the United States, and key regional states like Japan. They also discuss how Taipei and Washington might change their approach to reduce the risk of Taiwanese coercion.

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Cullen O’Keefe, Research Director at the Institute for Law and AI, joins Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at Texas Law and a Contributing Editor at Lawfare, and Renée DiResta, Associate Research Professor at the McCourt School of Public Policy at Georgetown and a Contributing Editor at Lawfare, to discuss a novel AI governance framework. They dive into a paper he co-authored on the concept of "Law-Following AI" or LFAI. That paper explores a near-term future. Imagine AI systems capable of tackling complex computer-based tasks with expert human-level skill. The potential for economic growth, scientific discovery, and improving public services is immense. But how do we ensure these powerful tools operate safely and align with our societal values? That’s the question at the core of Cullen’s paper and this podcast.

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Donald Trump was confident he could end Russia’s war in Ukraine in a matter of days or weeks. It’s now been more than three months since Trump’s reelection, and even a short-term ceasefire between Ukraine and Russia remains elusive.

Why did Trump fail? And what can really force Russia to stop the war? To answer these and many other questions, Lawfare’s Ukraine Fellow Anastasiia Lapatina spoke with prominent Ukrainian analyst Mykola Bielieskov, who is a Research Fellow at the National Institute for Strategic Studies and a Senior Analyst at the Come Back Alive Foundation.

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In a live conversation on May 9, Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editors Anna Bower, Quinta Jurecic, and Roger Parloff, Lawfare Legal Fellow James Pearce, and Lawfare contributor Preston Marquis to discuss the status of the civil litigation against President Trump’s executive actions, including the order for the release of Rümeysa Öztürk, litigation over ideological deportations, legal challenge to the funding freeze targeting Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, and more.

You can find information on legal challenges to Trump administration actions here.

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From February 22, 2024: As a new report on the intimidation of state and local officeholders from the Brennan Center for Justice points out, “The January 6 insurrection at the Capitol seemed to mark a new peak in extremist intimidation targeting public officials. But it was hardly the only act of political violence to break the period of relative stability that followed the assassinations of the 1960s.” Citing the 2017 shooting of Rep. Steve Scalise, last year’s hammer attack on Paul Pelosi, and many other cases, the report paints a troubling picture of today’s climate of political violence in America. 

To talk through the report and its implications, Lawfare Senior Editor Quinta Jurecic and Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien sat down with Maya Kornberg, a Research Fellow at the Brennan Center’s Elections and Government Program and one of the report’s authors. They discussed how Maya and her team surveyed so many state and local officials across a number of jurisdictions, the pervasive risks and threats those officeholders face, and how these threats are distorting U.S. democracy as a whole.

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From August 27, 2019: On August 5, the Indian government announced that it was revoking “special status” for the states of Jammu and Kashmir, enshrined in Article 370 of its constitution. Since then, the government has instituted a lockdown in the Kashmir valley, hundreds of people have been detained, there have been mass protests, and tens of thousands of Indian troops have been deployed to the region. Professor Christine Fair of Georgetown University’s Security Studies Program sat down with Benjamin Wittes to discuss Article 370, its history, and the current state-of-play in the region.

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Ben Brooks, a fellow at Harvard's Berkman Klein Center and former head of public policy for Stability AI, joins Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at Texas Law and Contributing Editor at Lawfare, to discuss a sudden and significant shift toward open-sourcing leading AI models and the ramifications of that pivot for AI governance at home and abroad. Ben and Kevin specifically review OpenAI’s announced plans to release a new open-weights model.

Coverage of OpenAI announcement: https://techcrunch.com/2025/03/31/openai-plans-to-release-a-new-open-language-model-in-the-coming-months/

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In recent years, political scientists have given a great deal of attention to “democratic backsliding”—the slow erosion of democracy by aspiring authoritarians. The events of the last several months in the United States—with attacks from the Trump administration on the press, higher education, and any center of power outside the White House—make this research all the more relevant. But the question of how leaders chip away at democracy is only part of the picture. There’s also the question of what things look like from the other side: how can opposition movements resist democratic backsliding, and what techniques are most effective in doing so? 

Laura Gamboa, an assistant professor of democracy and global affairs at the University of Notre Dame, studies exactly this. Her book, “Resisting Backsliding,” examines case studies from Colombia, Venezuela, and elsewhere to gauge what opposition strategies have the best shot at pushing back against authoritarianism. She sat down with Lawfare Senior Editor Quinta Jurecic to discuss her research and what it might tell us about the state of democracy in America today. 

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This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Benjamin “The Beard” Wittes and Anastasiia (and Ava) Lapatina to discuss the week’s biggest national security news stories, including:

• “A Waltz on Thin Ice.” Weeks after the SignalGate controversy, Mike Waltz is out as National Security Adviser and set to be nominated as U.N. Ambassador. Secretary of State Marco Rubio, meanwhile, is in for a record fourth high-ranking appointment, though rumors are circulating about just how long he may remain in the position. How big a deal is this switch in leadership? What might its broader implications be?
• “Resource Extraction.” After months of negotiations, Ukraine and the Trump administration have finally signed a minerals agreement that gives the United States (and, perhaps more importantly, President Trump) a financial stake in Ukraine’s ongoing independence. Is the deal just exploiting Ukraine’s vulnerability? Or is there a chance it might contribute to a better outcome for the beleaguered country?
• “Liquid Assets.” Russia has gotten its liquefied natural gas (or LNG) facility off the ground in the Arctic and is getting ready to export through a shadowfleet of unregistered vessels to eager buyers in China who are undeterred by Western sanctions. What does the situation tell us about the effectiveness of sanctions? And what is Russia up to in the Arctic?

In Object Lessons, Ben logrolled Lawfare’s accidentally-on-purpose, Fridays-at-4pm YouTube show, Lawfare Live (like, Like and Subscribe to our channel!). Scott’s getting ready for grilled pizza season and shared tips for how to handle the heat. And turning the temperature down a notch, Nastya recommended Minna Ålander’s substack, Northern Flank Notes, for more uutiset on the Nordic-Baltic-Arctic region.

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In her recent Lawfare article, Alexis Loeb—a former deputy chief of the Jan. 6 Capitol Siege Section at the U.S. Department of Justice and a current partner at Farella, Braun, and Martel—discussed Attorney General Pam Bondi’s memo dismantling the Kleptocracy Asset Recovery Initiative. On today’s episode, Loeb joined Lawfare Associate Editor Olivia Manes to talk about the work that the Kleptocracy Team conducted, why it mattered for national security, and whether the Justice Department’s actions are part of a broader administrative trend towards non-enforcement of corruption.

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The TAKE IT DOWN Act is the first major U.S. federal law to squarely target non‑consensual intimate imagery (NCII) and to include a component requiring tech companies to act. Long handled via a patchwork of state laws, it criminalizes NCII at the federal level—both authentic images and AI-generated digital forgeries—and requires that platforms remove reported NCII within 48 hours of notification by a victim or victim's representative. TAKE IT DOWN passed with wide bipartisan support—unanimously in the Senate, and 409-2 in the House. Melania Trump championed it, and it is expected that President Trump will sign it. And yet, some of the cyber civil rights organizations that have led the fight to mitigate the harms of NCII over many years have serious reservations about the bill as passed. Why?

Lawfare Contributing Editor Renée DiResta sits down with Mary Anne Franks, President and Legislative & Technology Policy Director at the Cyber Civil Rights Initiative, and Eugene L. and Barbara A. Bernard Professor in Intellectual Property, Technology, and Civil Rights Law at the George Washington Law School; Becca Branum, Deputy Director of the Free Expression Project at the Center for Democracy & Technology; and Adam Conner, Vice President, Technology Policy at the Center for American Progress to unpack what the bill does, why it suddenly cruised through on a rare bipartisan wave of support, and whether its sweeping takedown mandate will protect victims or chill lawful speech. This is a nuanced discussion; some of the guests support specific aspects of the bill, while disagreeing about the implementation of others. Expect clear explanations, constructive disagreement, and practical takeaways for understanding this important piece of legislation.

More resources:

• TAKE IT DOWN Act Legislative Summary and Text
• Becca Branum and Tom Bowman's letter urging changes to TAKE IT DOWN prior to passage
• Cyber Civil Rights Initiative
• Senate press release upon House signing, including list of 120 supporting organizations

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In a live conversation on May 2, Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editors Anna Bower, Scott Anderson, and Roger Parloff and Lawfare Legal Fellow James Pearce to discuss the status of the civil litigation against President Trump’s executive actions, including the release of Mohsen Mahdawi, the decision by a judge that the Alien Enemies Act invocation did not meet the invasion requirement in the law, litigation surrounding the dismantling of agencies across the executive branch, legal challenge to DOGE’s access to information at the Social Security Administration, and more.

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From July 27, 2020: Anne Applebaum is a columnist, writer, historian and most recently, the author of "Twilight of Democracy: The Seductive Lore of Authoritarianism," a book that explores why authoritarian ideologies are on the ascendance in countries as diverse as Poland, Hungary, Spain, the United States and Great Britain. Benjamin Wittes spoke with Anne about the themes of the book: Why are all of these authoritarian ideologies on the rise now? What is the role of social media in their rise? What are the major themes that they have in common, and how different are they location by location? How did conservative ideology come to fracture the way it has over so brief a period of time? And how is the modern wave of authoritarianism different from earlier iterations of it?

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From January 16, 2024: Over the last two months, Houthi militants have waged more than 27 attacks against merchant shipping and U.S. and partner forces in the Red Sea, the Gulf of Aden, and the Bab al-Mandeb Strait, purportedly in response to the war in Gaza. These attacks have significantly disrupted global shipping and surged the Middle East into an even more precarious security situation. Following a large-scale Houthi attack on U.S. and British ships, the U.S. and U.K. on Jan. 11 launched over 150 munitions targeting almost 30 Houthi sites in Yemen. The U.S. on Jan. 12 carried out another strike on a Houthi radar facility. The Houthis have since retaliated with multiple strikes targeting U.S. forces. Yesterday, the Houthis for the first time successfully struck a cargo ship owned and operated by the United States.

Lawfare Research Fellow Matt Gluck sat down with Gregory Johnsen, the Associate Director of the Institute for Future Conflict at the U.S. Air Force Academy and Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson to discuss the spate of Houthi attacks, the U.S. response and the associated domestic and international law questions, and where the fighting is likely to go from here. What can history tell us about the possible paths forward? Why did the U.S. act when it did? What’s in it for the Houthis? They chewed over these questions and more. 

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As the Trump administration seeks to escalate its immigration crackdown, the government has turned to a concerning source of information for data on immigrants: the Social Security Administration. Reports indicate that Elon Musk’s DOGE initiative and the Department of Homeland Security successfully pushed Social Security officials to provide access to what’s commonly known as the “Death Master File,” allowing the government to mark living immigrants as dead in the Social Security Administration’s systems. The goal, according to press reports, is to make the lives of these individuals so difficult that they choose to leave the country. 

What exactly is the Death Master File, and why is this strategy so alarming? To understand, Lawfare Senior Editor Quinta Jurecic spoke to Kathleen Romig, Director of Social Security and Disability Policy at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, and Devin O’Connor, a senior fellow at the center. They explained the unsettling implications of tinkering with the Death Master File and situated these efforts within the broader scope of the Trump administration—and DOGE’s—repeated attacks on Social Security.

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For today's episode, Lawfare Foreign Policy Editor Daniel Byman interviewed Tanvi Madan, a Senior Fellow at the Brookings Institution, to discuss the April 22 terrorist attack in Kashmir. Madan explains how the crisis has evolved, the escalation options available to India, and the limited influence of the United States, China, and other powers to contain the crisis.

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This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Molly Reynolds and James Pearce to talk through the week’s big national security news, including:

• “Rounding the ‘Feels Like It’s Been a Century’ Mark.” As President Trump comes to the end of his second first 100 days in office, he and his supporters are laying claim to FDR’s mantle as the president to accomplish the most in such a short period of time. But how much success has Trump really had in enacting his broader policy agenda? How should we be seeing Trump’s administration as it rounds this milestone?
• “The Art of the Appeal.” More than three months into his second term in the White House, President Trump has clearly embraced a new legal strategy: antagonistic towards the courts, aggressive in its claims of presidential power, and more than willing to run to the Supreme Court for validation. But so far that validation has been slow to come, and there are signs that even some judges appointed by Trump are growing weary and wary of his tactics. How successful is Trump’s legal strategy proving? Could an alternative be more effective?
• “DOGE-ing a Bullet.” A new report from the minority staff of the Senate’s permanent subcommittee on investigations claims that Elon Musk’s involvement in the Trump administration and his role in dismantling federal agencies could save his various companies billions in regulatory costs and other potential liabilities. Is this a clear conflict of interest? Or does this report reflect other factors in play?

In object lessons, Molly had a mighty craic in happening upon Blue Lights, a police procedural set in Belfast, and urges you to give it a lash. Scott, hailing victory and fighting for Old DC, cheered the thought of a new RFK Stadium. And James encouraged listeners to maki their way over to a local Japanese restaurant, where the sushi isn’t the only thing rolled.

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Andrew Bakaj, Chief Legal Counsel at Whistleblower Aid, joins Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at Texas Law and Contributing Editor at Lawfare, to discuss a declaration by a National Labor Relations Board employee Daniel Berulis that DOGE facilitated the exfiltration of potentially sensitive information to external sources. The two also analyze the merits of whistleblower protections more generally.

Read more about the declaration here: https://www.npr.org/2025/04/15/nx-s1-5355896/doge-nlrb-elon-musk-spacex-security

For a copy of the letter penned by several members of Congress, go here: https://www.npr.org/2025/04/24/nx-s1-5375118/congress-doge-nlrb-whistleblower

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In today’s episode, Molly Reynolds, Senior Fellow at Brookings and Senior Editor at Lawfare, sits down with Matt Lawrence, Associate Professor of Law at Emory; Eloise Pasachoff, Professor of Law at Georgetown; and Zach Price, Professor of Law at UC Law San Francisco to discuss a new paper on “Appropriations Presidentialism,” or how the executive branch attempts to control the process of allocating federal funds at the expense of Congress. They cover the history of the Congress, the president, and the courts in this area; what the Trump administration is doing that is different from what we’ve seen in the past; and what might come next in the multitude of current litigation on these issues.

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In a live conversation on April 25, Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editors Anna Bower, Scott Anderson, and Roger Parloff, Lawfare Legal Fellow James Pearce, and Lawfare Contributor Preston Marquis to discuss the status of the civil litigation against President Trump’s executive actions, including the arrest of a Wisconsin state judge by the Department of Homeland Security, the Alien Enemy Act removal cases, the ban on transgender service members in the military, and more.

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From April 11, 2022: The period after Watergate and President Nixon's resignation saw an unprecedented barrage of congressional efforts at reforming the executive branch. The period after Donald Trump's departure from office has seen no comparable spree of legislative action—at least not yet. In a recent Lawfare article, Quinta Jurecic and Andrew Kent explored the disparity and the reasons for it, and they analyzed whether any of the legislative reforms that have been so far proposed have any prospect of passage. They joined Benjamin Wittes to talk about why things are so different today than they were in the late 1970s, what happened in that period and whether Congress will actually be able to do anything now.

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From September 16, 2020: What is the proper relationship between the CIA director and the president? How should directors handle arguably illegal orders? How important is the director's role as the nation's honest broker of information during times of crisis?

To get at these questions, David Priess sat down with Chris Whipple, a documentary filmmaker, journalist and the author of two books about the people around the president. "The Gatekeepers," based upon his documentary of the same name, examines White House chiefs of staff, and his new book, "The Spymasters: How the CIA Directors Shape History and the Future," is based on the Showtime documentary "The Spymasters: CIA in the Crosshairs," for which Whipple was the writer and executive producer. They talked about CIA directors through the last several decades and how they've impacted U.S. history and national security.

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For today's episode, Lawfare Foreign Policy Editor Daniel Byman interviewed Michael Sulmeyer, who was the top Defense official for all aspects of cyber policy in the Biden administration. Sulmeyer discusses the cyber threat landscape, different roles and missions, how Artificial Intelligence might be leveraged, and the key role of allies in cyberdefense, among other issues.

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On today’s episode, Julia Rose Kraut, author of the book “Threat of Dissent: A History of Ideological Exclusion and Deportation in the United States,” joins Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien to talk about that book, originally published in 2020, and how it can help us make sense of the Trump administration’s recent immigration and deportation policies. 

They discussed how ideological exclusions and deportations present a unique intersection of immigration and First Amendment legal doctrine and precedent, the chilling effect these policies have on constitutionally protected political speech, and the recent case of Columbia University graduate student Mahmoud Khalil.

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This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Anna Bower, Tyler McBrien, and Kevin Frazier to talk through the week’s big national security news, including:

• “Aliens vs. Predators.” Despite forceful legal pushback—including by the U.S. Supreme Court—the Trump administration is working hard to continue its campaign to remove foreign aliens it accuses of pursuing a “predatory incursion” from the country using the Alien Enemies Act. How far will it go? And to what extent can the courts (or anyone else) stop them?
• “Aye Aye Robot.” Both the Biden and Trump administrations were fans of artificial intelligence (AI) and set out policies to incorporate it into government decision-making. But while the Biden administration focused much of its efforts on guardrails, the Trump administration has increasingly torn them down as part of a broader push to incorporate the nascent technology into government decision-making. What are the risks and potential benefits of this sort of government by AI? 
• “For Pete’s Sake.” Beleaguered Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth is more beleaguered than ever this week, after reports that, in addition to inadvertently sharing classified secrets with Atlantic reporter Jeffrey Goldberg, he also passed them to his wife, brother, and personal lawyer on another Signal thread. Meanwhile, a former adviser (and established Trump loyalist) went public with allegations that Hegseth’s management has led to chaos at the Defense Department and called for his resignation. Will this be enough for the Trump administration to cut bait and run? Or does his support in the MAGAsphere simply run too deep?

In object lessons, Tyler, fresh from biking adventures abroad, hyped the routes, photos, and resources on bikepacking.com, if physical exertion is your idea of relaxation. Anna, finding other ways to relax, came to the defense of The Big Short in helping to soothe her anxiety amid more current market upheaval. Doubling down on the “no relaxation without tension” theme, Scott’s outie binge-watched Severance while on vacation. And Kevin, very on-brand, was quick to bring us a feel-good story of a new community partnership to support AI skill-building in Austin-based nonprofits. 

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On today's episode, Mikhail Zygar, a renowned Russian journalist living in exile in the U.S., the author of multiple books on Vladimir Putin, and the author of The Last Pioneer substack, joined Lawfare Associate Editor Olivia Manes to discuss his experience as the founder of one of the last independent Russian media channels, TV Rain. They talked about the incentives underlying Putin's actions in Ukraine, how the Russian president has clamped down on independent journalism, global disillusionment with liberal democracy, and more.

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Chris Hughes, author of “Marketcrafters” and co-founder of the Economic Security Project, joins Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at Texas Law and Contributing Editor at Lawfare, to discuss his book and its implications at a time of immense economic uncertainty and political upheaval. The duo explore several important historical case studies that Chris suggests may have lessons worth heeding in the ongoing struggle to direct markets toward the public good.

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On April 18 at 4 pm ET, Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sits down with Lawfare Senior Editors Anna Bower, Quinta Jurecic, and Roger Parloff and Lawfare Legal Fellow James Pearce to discuss the status of the civil litigation against President Trump’s executive actions, including Judge Boasberg's finding of probable cause for contempt in the Alien Enemies Act case.

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From January 26, 2021: Jack Goldsmith sat down with Michael McConnell, the Richard and Frances Mallery Professor and director of the Constitutional Law Center at Stanford Law School, a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution and the author of the new book, "The President Who Would Not Be King: Executive Power Under the Constitution." They discussed McConnell's textual historical approach to interpreting presidential power under Article II of the U.S. Constitution, the many novel elements of executive power embodied in Article II and the proper understanding of Article II's Vesting Clause. They also talked about contemporary implications of Michael's reading of Article II for war powers, the unitary executive and late impeachments.

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From March 6, 2023: Amichai Cohen and Yuval Shany are both Israeli legal scholars and longtime Lawfare contributors. Shany is a professor of international law at the Hebrew University Law School in Jerusalem. Cohen is a professor at Ono Academic College. They are both scholars at the Israel Democracy Institute, and together they are also co-authors of a six-part series in Lawfare about the ongoing effort by the Israeli government to alter the Israeli judicial system. It is a detailed account of a very serious reform operation in Israel, one that the authors argue is dangerous. They joined Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes to discuss the ongoing protests in Israel, the ongoing legislative efforts, and the history of the Israeli judicial system and its growing power that has led to this crisis.

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In recent weeks, President Trump has embarked on a campaign of extortion against law firms, pushing major firms to either reach agreements with the White House or face executive orders in retribution. A number of major firms have chosen to negotiate—agreeing to deals that are already under pressure as the White House seeks to extract more. Four firms—Perkins Coie, Jenner & Block, WilmerHale, and Susman Godfrey—have chosen to fight retaliatory executive orders in court and have secured temporary restraining orders against the administration. 

John Keker and Bob Van Nest joined the podcast to discuss these events. They’re partners at the firm Keker, Van Nest & Peters, and—along with their fellow partner Elliot Peters—published an op-ed in the New York Times urging law firms to stand up for themselves. In conversation with Lawfare Senior Editor Quinta Jurecic, they discussed why the Trump administration’s efforts pose such a threat to the rule of law and shared their insights into the dynamics inside law firms right now, what pressures might move a firm to capitulate, and what the firms that have chosen to fight are risking in the process.

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On April 15, Judge Paula Xinis held a hearing in the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, the man deported by accident to a notorious prison in El Salvador. Lawfare Senior Editors Roger Parloff and Anna Bower covered the hearing live and debriefed on it with Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes immediately afterwards.

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The Supreme Court recently held oral arguments in the case of Mexico v. Smith & Wesson, a groundbreaking case brought by the government of Mexico that seeks to hold U.S. gun manufacturers accountable for cartels' use of American weapons to perpetrate violence in Mexico. On today's episode, Executive Editor Natalie Orpett talked with Jonathan Lowy, an attorney at Global Action on Gun Violence, who represents the government of Mexico in the suit, and Chantal Flores, a freelance journalist who has focused on Mexican cartels and has written about the case. They discussed the flow of U.S.-made guns into Mexico, how it relates to cartel violence, and the complicated legal and policy context around Mexico’s case.

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Daniel Kokotajlo, former OpenAI researcher and Executive Director of the AI Futures Project, and Eli Lifland, a researcher with the AI Futures Project, join Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at Texas Law and Contributing Editor at Lawfare, to discuss what AI may look like in 2027. The trio explore a report co-authored by Daniel that dives into the hypothetical evolution of AI over the coming years. This novel report has already elicited a lot of attention with some reviewers celebrating its creativity and others questioning its methodology. Daniel and Eli tackle that feedback and help explain the report’s startling conclusion—that superhuman AI will develop within the next decade.

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In a live conversation on April 11, Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editors Anna Bower, Quinta Jurecic, and Roger Parloff, Lawfare Legal Fellow James Pearce, and Lawfare contributor James Pearce to discuss the status of the civil litigation against President Trump’s executive actions, including the April 11 hearing on the removal of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, the Supreme Court’s decisions in Abrego Garcia’s case and the Alien Enemies Act case, the targeting of law firms, and more.

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From May 16, 2023: In recent years, the Supreme Court's non-merits “shadow docket” has become a topic of contestation and controversy, especially the Court's emergency orders rulings on issues ranging from immigration to abortion to Covid-19 restrictions.

To discuss these issues, Jack Goldsmith sat down with Stephen Vladeck, the Charles Alan Wright Chair in Federal Courts at the University of Texas School of Law, who is the author of a new book entitled, “The Shadow Docket: How the Supreme Court Uses Stealth Rulings to Amass Power and Undermine the Republic.” They discussed the origins of the contemporary shadow docket in some 1973 emergency orders related to the bombing of Cambodia, why the Court’s shadow docket has grown in prominence in recent years, what's wrong with the shadow docket, and how to fix it.

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From March 8, 2024: The practice of surveillance capitalism—the widespread private collection and commodification of personal data—is well understood. Less well understood is the extent to which the U.S. government purchases this data in the commercial marketplace to use it for intelligence and law enforcement purposes. 

Byron Tau, when he was a reporter with The Wall Street Journal, did more than anyone to bring this practice to public light. Jack Goldsmith sat down recently with Tau to discuss his new book on the topic, “Means of Control: How the Hidden Alliance of Tech and Government is Creating a New American Surveillance State.” They discussed how the private broker market works, why the government is able to purchase bulk private data with relatively few legal restrictions, and the threat to privacy and civil liberties that inheres in the practice. They also discussed why this form of data is so important to the government and the prospects for reform of the relatively unregulated practice.

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For today's episode, Lawfare Foreign Policy Editor Daniel Byman interviewed Tom Karako, the Director of the Missile Defense Program at CSIS, to discuss the Trump administration's missile defense proposals known as "Golden Dome." Karako explains the purpose of Golden Dome, its feasibility and cost, the likely reactions of China and Russia, and what realistic success would look like.

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This week, Scott sat down with co-hosts emeritus Benjamin Wittes, Quinta Jurecic and Lawfare's new senior legal fellow James Pearce to talk through the week's biggest national security news stories, including:

• “Midnight Planes Going Anywhere.” The Supreme Court has weighed in on the Trump administration’s decision to quickly fly dozens of Venezuelan nationals to El Salvador with little to no meaningful process, holding that those detained had to be provided notice and an opportunity to challenge their removal, but only through habeas in their place of detention. Meanwhile, we are still awaiting the Court’s final decision on whether a lower court can direct the executive branch to seek the return of another man who was removed to El Salvador by mistake. What will these decisions mean for the Trump administration’s aggressive deportation policies?
• “All the King’s Horses and All the King’s Men, Won’t Be Able to Put Humphrey’s Together Again.” Watchers of the D.C. Circuit may have suffered whiplash this week, as an appellate panel reversed a district court’s conclusion that the Trump administration’s removal of statutorily protected members of the Merit Service Protection Board and National Labor Review Board was most likely unlawful, only for the panel itself to be reversed in short order by the whole en banc court. The issues now seem clearly poised for review by the Supreme Court. Is Humphrey’s Executor and other case law preserving independent agencies toast? Or might the Court stop short of killing independent agencies altogether?
• “A Duty of Pander.” Attorney General Pam Bondi punished a Justice Department attorney this week after he admitted to a federal court that he had not been provided adequate answers to some of the court’s questions. It’s the latest in a parade of disciplinary actions accusing attorneys of disloyalty for engaging in candor with the federal courts over the confusion that some of the Trump administration’s policies have caused. Is the Attorney General within her rights to crack down on these actions? And what impact will her demand for loyalty have on the Justice Department’s relationship with the federal courts?

For object lessons, Quinta recommended the movie "Margin Call" as a reflection on the last financial crisis, as we prepare for the next one. Ben brought attention to Russia's brutal and inhumane attack on a children's playground in Ukrainian President Volodmyr Zelensky's hometown of Kryvi Rih, which underscores just how committed Russia really is to peace. Scott shared his latest home pizza discovery—a one hour no-knead recipe for pan pizza crust from King Arthur's Baking—as well as his next experiment: an all edge pieces pan pizza. And James gave a double-header object lesson, sharing his participation in the Baker to Vegas footrace and his reading of another story about something even more inhuman: Mary Shelley's Frankenstein.

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On today's episode, Executive Editor Natalie Orpett spoke with Tara Varma, a fellow at the Brookings Institution, about the latest in French politics. On March 31, far-right leader Marine Le Pen was convicted of embezzlement and banned from politics, though polling showed her in the lead for the 2027 presidential elections. In the last few weeks, current French president Emmanuel Macron has been carving out a place for French leadership amidst the upheaval in Europe’s relationship with the United States. Meanwhile, the push to build European defense capacity—and Trump’s new tariffs—are raising a lot of complicated questions.

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Lawfare Associate Editor for Communications Anna Hickey spoke to Director of the Center for Climate Security Erin Sikorsky about the omission of climate change from the Annual Threat Assessment, Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard’s testimony in front of Congress, and the national security risks of climate change.

Read Sikorsky’s article here.

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For today’s episode, Lawfare General Counsel and Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sat down with Lawfare Contributing Editor Peter Harrell, who was previously Senior Director for International Economics on the National Security Council, and Professor Jennifer Hillman of the Georgetown University Law Center, a former member of the WTO’s appellate body and senior U.S. trade official, to discuss the new global tariffs that President Trump imposed last week and the legal fight that is beginning to emerge over them.

Together, they discussed how dramatic a break the Trump administration’s policies are from past practice, the logic behind them (or lack thereof), and whether his use of the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA) to impose them will really survive judicial scrutiny.

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In a live conversation on April 4, Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sat down with Lawfare Senior Editors Anna Bower and Roger Parloff, Lawfare Legal Fellow James Pearce, and Georgetown professor Steve Vladeck to discuss the status of the civil litigation against President Trump’s executive actions, including the deportation of individuals to an El Salvador prison, the federal funding freeze, the targeting of law firms, and more.

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From January 26, 2024: In front of a live audience at the Knight Foundation's INFORMED conference in Miami, Florida, Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes spoke with Hon. Kenneth L. Wainstein, Under Secretary for Intelligence and Analysis at the Department of Homeland Security; Jameel Jaffer, Executive Director of the Knight First Amendment Institute at Columbia University; and Lawfare Senior Editor Quinta Jurecic about government surveillance of open source social media.

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From March 20, 2024: Since World War II, the United States and its currency, the dollar, have come to play a central role in the broader global economy. And in recent decades, policymakers have used this role as a weapon, cutting off access to malign actors and punishing those who act contrary to U.S. national security interests. But cultivating such primacy has proven to be a double-edged sword, with more complicated ramifications for many Americans. 

In her new book “Paper Soldiers: How the Weaponization of the Dollar Changed the World Order,” Bloomberg reporter Saleha Mohsin digs into the history of the dollar’s role in the global economy and what its increasing weaponization may mean moving forward. Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson recently joined Mohsin to discuss her new book and what we should all know about the new economic and political moment we are living through. 

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Hillary Hartley, the former Chief Digital Officer of Ontario and former Co-Founder and Deputy Executive Director at 18F, and David Eaves, Associate Professor of Digital Government and Co-Deputy Director of the Institute for Innovation and Public Purpose at University College London, join Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at Texas Law and Contributing Editor at Lawfare, to discuss the recent closure of 18F, a digital unit within the GSA focused on updating and enhancing government technological systems and public-facing digital services. Hillary and David also published a recent Lawfare article on this topic, “Learning from the Legacy of 18F.”

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For today’s episode, we’re bringing you the opening episode of our podcast Escalation. Escalation is a multi-part narrative podcast hosted by Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien and Ukraine Fellow Anastasiia Lapatina. Escalation lays bare the stakes of the Russo-Ukrainian War through powerful storytelling and compelling voices. It reveals forgotten promises and fragile alliances that have shaped the U.S.-Ukraine relationship and how the decisions of policymakers in Washington, Kyiv, and Moscow have global consequences.

In Episode One: Chicken Kiev: The world watches the Cold War end and the Soviet Union break apart. And after centuries of Russian rule, Ukrainians may soon have their independence back. But in Washington, there’s fear that that independence could actually make the world more dangerous.

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This week, Scott joined his Lawfare colleagues Natalie Orpett and Eric Ciaramella to talk through the week’s big national security news, including:

• “In Mother Russia, Sometimes Bear Poke You.” Discussions over a possible broader ceasefire in Ukraine—beyond the temporary (and limited) energy and Black Sea ceasefire agreements last week—appear to have ground to a halt over Russian demands. Many observers suspect this is simply a stalling technique by Russian President Vladimir Putin, as Russia prepares for another offensive intended to improve his negotiating leverage. President Trump, meanwhile, in a rare swipe at the Russian dictator, has said he’s “pissed off.” But will Trump bring leverage to bear enough for Putin to budge? Or are the ceasefire negotiations like to stay stuck in the mud—and, if so, will Trump know who to blame?
• “Nuukin’ Futs.” Vice President J.D. Vance visited the northernmost U.S. military base in Greenland last week and delivered a speech in front of U.S. service members that accused Denmark of neglecting its Greenland protectorate and failing to adequately protect it from China and Russia—shortcomings that, in his telling, justify President Trump’s stated intent to gain U.S. control over the island nation. Is there any truth to Vance’s allegations? And will his remarks help or hurt the Trump administration’s purported objective of securing Greenland and improving U.S. access to its various resources? 
• “Third Term’s the Charm.” In an interview this week, President Trump insisted to reporters that he was serious about potentially pursuing a third term and suggested that there were “methods” by which he could do so, in spite of the 22nd Amendment’s two-term limitation on presidents. How seriously should we take his threat? Are there arguments that could carry water — and will it matter?

In object lessons, Natalie—tire-d of DC traffic—“spoke” highly of her beloved ebike. Scott, flying solo in NYC, curled up with his Kindle at Amor y Amargo, contemplating the question: how many Amaros does it take to make the perfect Sazerac? And Eric praised “Language City: The Fight to Preserve Endangered Mother Tongues in New York,” by Ross Perlin—a fascinating portrait of linguistic diversity and the fight to preserve it.

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Atul Gawande is a surgeon and a public health expert. He's also the former head of global health at the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), an agency that the Trump administration has prioritized for dismantling since its first day in office. On today's episode, Executive Editor Natalie Orpett sat down with Gawande to discuss what USAID does, the consequences of destroying it, and why public health is so important to U.S. national security.

Editor's Note: This episode was recorded on March 27, 2025. The following day, the Trump administration announced that USAID would be dissolved by the end of this fiscal year. 

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Adam Thierer, Senior Fellow for the Technology & Innovation team at R Street, joins Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the UT Austin School of Law and a Contributing Editor at Lawfare, to review public comments submitted in response to the Office of Science and Technology Policy’s Request for Information on the AI Action Plan. The pair summarize their own comments and explore those submitted by major labs and civil society organizations. They also dive into recent developments in the AI regulatory landscape, including a major veto by Governor Youngkin in Virginia.

Readings discussed:

• Kevin on Vance’s America First, America Only Approach to AI
• Keegan and Adam on AI Safety Treatises 
• Kevin on Proposed Firings at NIST
• Dean and Alan on Preemption

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On March 28, Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes will sit down with Lawfare Senior Editors Scott Anderson, Anna Bower, and Roger Parloff, Lawfare Contributing Editor James Pearce, and former ACLU National Legal Director David Cole to discuss the status of the civil litigation against President Trump’s executive actions, including the deportation of individuals under the Alien Enemies Act, the detention of Mahmoud Khalil, and the targeting of law firms.

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From January 30, 2024: U.S. military operations against Houthi rebels in Yemen have escalated rapidly in recent weeks, culminating in a number of major strikes aimed at degrading their ability to threaten Red Sea shipping traffic. But the war powers reports the Biden administration has provided to Congress are raising questions about how it is legally justifying this latest military campaign. 

To discuss the burgeoning conflict in Yemen and what it might mean for war powers, Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sat down with Brian Finucane, Senior Adviser at the Crisis Group; Lawfare Co-founder and Harvard Law School Professor Jack Goldsmith; and Lawfare Research Fellow Matt Gluck. They talked about their recent pieces on the topic, what we know and don’t know about the administration’s legal theory, and what the law might mean for how the conflict evolves moving forward. 

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From April 22, 2021: Jack Goldsmith sat down with Lee Bollinger, the president of Columbia University, and Geoffrey Stone, the Edward H. Levy Distinguished Service Professor at the University of Chicago Law School, to discuss their new book, "National Security, Leaks and Freedom of the Press: The Pentagon Papers Fifty Years On." They discussed the holding and legacy of the Pentagon Papers case, as well as some of the many challenges of applying the Pentagon Papers regime in the modern digital era that is characterized by massive leaks and a very different press landscape than the one that prevailed in 1971.

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For today's episode, Lawfare Foreign Policy Editor Daniel Byman interviewed Natan Sachs, the Director of the Middle East Program of the Brookings Institution, to discuss Israel's turbulent domestic situation and the renewal of the conflicts in Gaza and Lebanon. Sachs explains Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's political tactics, the controversies over the budget, judicial reform and the resulting protests, and the sacking of figures like Shin Bet chief Ronen Bar. Sachs also discusses why Israel has decided to renew operations in Gaza and Lebanon and why strikes on Iran are more likely than in the past. 

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This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Benjamin Wittes and Roger Parloff to talk through the week of the most Rational Security-esque of national security news stories ever, including: 

• “Oopsec.” In a strong contender for the most ridiculous national security story of the year, senior Trump administration officials appear to have planned a series of airstrikes in Yemen that took place earlier this month through the social messaging app Signal—and they appear to have included The Atlantic’s Editor-in-Chief Jeffrey Goldberg by mistake, giving him access to detailed war plans and internal policy discussions that he has now (mostly) made public. How irresponsible were the Trump administration’s actions? And what will the consequences be of this mistake?
• “Secrets, Lies, and Bureaucratic Red Tape.” The Trump administration employed the Alien Enemies Act to remove alleged members of the Venezuelan gang Tren de Aragua to a notorious prison in El Salvador last week, just before or perhaps just after (a point of ongoing inquiry) an order from a federal district court judge directed them not to. And now the Trump administration is invoking the state secrets privilege to avoid having to disclose more details regarding its policy choices. How firm is the legal ground that the Trump administration is operating on? And how will the courts handle it? 
• “How Do You Think We Keep These Shoes So White?” Leading white shoe law firm Paul, Weiss kissed the feet—or perhaps licked the boots—of President Trump this week in an effort to escape the highly discriminatory sanctions Trump recently imposed on them for their past ties with a lawyer who worked with the prosecution in his New York criminal case. What could their acquiescence mean for big law? And the legal industry more generally?

In object lessons, Roger is unwinding from court documents in English by diving into Walter Isaacson’s “Elon Musk” in French—because nothing says relaxation like a billionaire’s biography en français. Scott revisited his college years, reminded of Bob Dylan’s live 1966 performance of “The Royal Albert Hall Concert” after watching A Complete Unknown (pro tip: never leave a pile of axes at a folk festival). And Ben pleads with “the algorithm” to stop assuming he needs weapons disguised as mobility devices.

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In a live recording on March 26, Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes spoke to Shane Harris of The Atlantic to discuss the decision to release the text messages sent by Trump administration officials in the Houthi PC Small Group Signal group chat which accidentally included The Atlantic Editor-in-Chief Jeffrey Goldberg, testimony given in Congress by officials who were in the chat, and what accountability may look like.

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Shane Harris of The Atlantic joins Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes to talk about war planning on Signal, the Trump administration’s remarkable security lapse, and the testimony of the country’s intelligence chiefs that came in its wake.

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Tom Kent ran Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty and is a longtime Russia watcher. He talks to Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes about President Trump’s executive order dismantling Voice of America and Radio Free Europe.

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On March 21, Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sits down with Lawfare Senior Editors Anna Bower, Quinta Jurecic, and Roger Parloff to discuss the status of the civil litigation against President Trump’s executive actions, including DOGE’s incursions on the U.S. Institute of Peace, the invocation of the Alien Enemies Act, and the firing of probationary employees.

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From March 21, 2023: By many accounts, the United States is living through a new era of competition—not just between major powers and strategic rivals, but between ideologies. Around the world, many authoritarian governments seem to be on the rise, even as many liberal democracies are facing a crisis of confidence, including, by some accounts, here in the United States.

In a new book entitled, “Defeating the Dictators,” Charles Dunst, a former journalist and current deputy director of research and analytics at The Asia Group, lays out what he sees as the right strategy for making democracies more effective and defeating the appeal of authoritarian government. Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sat down with him to discuss his new book, the importance he places on Singapore as a case study, and how the domestic remedies he focuses on translate into foreign policy.

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From May 9, 2023: Since March 2022, El Salvador has been under a state of exception as its President Nayib Bukele seeks to crack down on the country’s powerful gangs. Bukele, who once described himself on Twitter as the “world’s coolest dictator,” has engaged in a prolonged attack on El Salvador’s democratic institutions. And the crackdown has resulted in a range of human rights abuses. At the same time, Bukele really does seem to have been successful in curbing gang violence, and his popularity is sky high. 

To understand the situation in El Salvador, Lawfare Senior Editor Quinta Jurecic spoke with Manuel Meléndez-Sánchez, a PhD candidate in Political Science at Harvard University who has written about Bukele on Lawfare. They discussed why Bukele’s crackdown on the gangs seems to be working, why it might fall apart in the long term, and what Bukele’s rise means for democracy in El Salvador and around the world.

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For today's episode, Lawfare Foreign Policy Editor Daniel Byman interviewed Gregory Johnsen, a non-resident fellow at the Arab Gulf States Institute in Washington, D.C. Johnsen explains the rationale of the Trump administration's decision to bomb Yemen but argues that it will have little effect on the Houthis. Indeed, Johnsen contends that the Houthis are spoiling for a fight with the United States and Israel, believing that this will generate support within Yemen that will help them increase their power.

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Dan Hendrycks, Director of the Center for AI Safety, joins Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the UT Austin School of Law and Contributing Editor at Lawfare, to discuss his recent paper (co-authored with former Google CEO Eric Schmidt and Scale AI CEO Alexandr Wang), “Superintelligence Strategy.”

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This week, Scott sat down with Rational Security veterans and Lawfare colleagues Benjamin Wittes and Molly Reynolds to talk through the week’s big national security news, including:

• “House Odds.” Speaker of the House Mike Johnson scored an unlikely win last week, when he kept the narrow (and notoriously fractious) Republican house majority united enough to pass its own continuing resolution to keep the government open—and then successfully got enough Democrats to acquiesce to debate on it for it to pass through the Senate without amendment. What does this tell us about the current dynamics in Congress—and what the Democratic minority in either chamber might realistically hope to achieve moving forward?
• “This Pressure Goes to Eleven.” The Trump administration amped up military operations in the Middle East this week, taking out a senior ISIS leader in Iraq, pursuing an aggressive set of airstrikes against the Houthis in Yemen, and greenlighting a renewal of Israeli hostilities in Gaza, seemingly ending the weeks-long ceasefire that had prevailed there. The common thread across all three sets of action seems to be Iran, a regime that the Trump administration has both socked with a return of maximum pressure sanctions and sought to engage on possible negotiations over its nuclear program. Is this new maximum maximum-pressure campaign likely to work? What risks and benefits does it present?
• “Saying the Quiet Part Incredibly Loud and at Length.” President Trump gave an unprecedented speech at the Justice Department last week, where he spent over an hour misrepresenting the criminal cases that had been made against him prior to his rising to the presidency and naming specific individuals as enemies who he indicated should be arrested. What motivated his address? And what will it mean for the campaign of vengeance he is slowly rolling out against his perceived political enemies?

In object lessons, Molly momentarily set aside her usual evangelism for regional NPR-affiliate podcasts to champion Good Politics/Bad Politics, a Substack deep-dive into U.S. elections and governance by Jonathan Bernstein, Julia Azari, and David S. Bernstein. Scott, ever the escapist, steered clear of wands and wizardry but still embraced fantasy with Lev Grossman’s “The Bright Sword.” And Ben lamented the recent gutting of Voice of America—only to note that those voices haven’t vanished. They’re just looking for a new frequency.

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For today's episode, Lawfare Foreign Policy Editor Daniel Byman interviewed Steven Heydemann, the Director of the Middle East Studies Program at Smith College, to assess the fast-changing developments in Syria today. Heydemann discusses the surge in communal violence in Syria, the deal between the new Hayat Tahrir al-Sham-led government and Syria's Kurds, Israel's counterproductive interventions, and U.S. policy toward the new regime in Damascus. 

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Derek Thompson, a senior editor at The Atlantic and co-author (with Ezra Klein) of Abundance, joins Renée DiResta, Associate Research Professor at the McCourt School of Public Policy at Georgetown and a Contributing Editor at Lawfare, and Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the UT Austin School of Law and Contributing Editor at Lawfare, to discuss the theory of Abundance and its feasibility in an age of political discord and institutional distrust.

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In a live conversation on March 14, Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes, sat down with assistant professor of law at the University of Kentucky Matt Boaz and Lawfare Senior Editors Anna Bower and Scott Anderson to discuss legal challenges to the Trump administration’s executive actions, including the detention of permanent resident Mahmoud Khalil, the birthright citizenship executive order, dismantling of USAID, the firing of probationary employees across the federal government, and more.

You can find information on legal challenges to Trump administration actions here.

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From December 15, 2020: Alan Rozenshtein sat down with Yaya Fanusie, a former CIA analyst and an expert on the national security implications of cryptocurrencies, who recently published a paper as part of Lawfare's ongoing Digital Social Contract research paper series, entitled, "Central Bank Digital Currencies: The Threat From Money Launderers and How to Stop Them." They talked about how central banks are exploring digital currencies, how those currencies might in turn be used by criminals and terrorist groups, and how governments and the private sector should respond.

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From October 6, 2023: The First Amendment protects speech, but what kind? True speech, sure. But what about false or misleading speech? What if it's harmful? After all, you can't yell fire in a crowded theater—or can you?

To answer these questions, Alan Rozenshtein, Associate Professor of Law at the University of Minnesota and Senior Editor at Lawfare spoke with Jeff Kosseff, who is an Associate Professor of Cybersecurity Law in the United States Naval Academy’s Cyber Science Department and a Contributing Editor at Lawfare. Jeff is releasing his latest book this month, titled "Liar in a Crowded Theater: Freedom of Speech in a World of Misinformation," in which he describes, and defends, the First Amendment's robust protections for false and misleading speech.

They spoke about the book, why you sometimes can yell fire in a crowded theater, and how new technology both superchargers misinformation and provides new tools to fight it.

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This episode of the Lawfare Podcast features Glen Weyl, economist and author at Microsoft Research; Jacob Mchangama, Executive Director of the Future of Free Speech Project at Vanderbilt; and Ravi Iyer, Managing Director of the USC Marshall School Neely Center.

Together with Renee DiResta, Associate Research Professor at the McCourt School of Public Policy at Georgetown and Contributing Editor at Lawfare, they talk about design vs moderation. Conversations about the challenges of social media often focus on moderation—what stays up and what comes down. Yet the way a social media platform is built influences everything from what we see, to what is amplified, to what content is created in the first place—as users respond to incentives, nudges, and affordances. Design processes are often invisible or opaque, and users have little power—though new decentralized platforms are changing that. So they talk about designing a prosocial media for the future, and the potential for an online world without Caesars.

Articles Referenced:

https://arxiv.org/abs/2502.10834

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4178647

https://www.techdirt.com/2025/01/27/empowering-users-not-overlords-overcoming-digital-helplessness/

https://kgi.georgetown.edu/research-and-commentary/better-feeds/

https://knightcolumbia.org/content/the-algorithmic-management-of-polarization-and-violence-on-social-media

https://time.com/7258238/social-media-tang-siddarth-weyl/

https://futurefreespeech.org/scope-creep/

https://futurefreespeech.org/preventing-torrents-of-hate-or-stifling-free-expression-online/

https://www.thefai.org/posts/shaping-the-future-of-social-media-with-middleware

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On today’s episode, Van Jackson, Professor of International Relations at Victoria University of Wellington, and Michael Brenes, Associate Director of the Brady-Johnson Program in Grand Strategy and Lecturer in History at Yale University, join Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien to talk about their new book,  “The Rivalry Peril: How Great-Power Competition Threatens Peace and Weakens Democracy,” in which they make the case for the United States to take a less aggressive approach to China. They discussed the pitfalls of great power competition, the origins of the China threat, and why a destructive U.S.-China rivalry is our choice, rather than our destiny.

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This week, Scott sat down with Lawfare Senior Editor and co-host emeritus Alan Rozenshtein and Lawfare Executive Editor Natalie Orpett to talk through the week’s big national security news, including:

• “Lowering the Bar.” Last week, the Trump administration took aim at two leading law firms—Covington & Burling and Perkins Coie—by repealing lawyers’ security clearances and setting limits on the extent to which government actors can contract with them, on the apparent grounds that they worked for Trump’s perceived enemies. Is this legal? Will it be challenged? And what will the effect be on the legal industry?
• “Big Math on Campus.” The Trump administration recently announced its intent to withhold $400 million in government grants from Columbia University, on the grounds that it had not done enough to combat anti-semitism on campus—a measure it paired with an indication that it would repeal student visas from those who had expressed “pro-Hamas” views. Is this tack a proper or legally sustainable one? And what impact will it have on academic communities in the United States?
• “Nothing Is Certain but Death and Ta…Well, at Least Death.” After temporarily delaying tariffs on Canada and Mexico after 48 hours last month, President Trump assured everyone that they were definitely getting installed this month. But once again, after a few days, he rescinded many of them. Nonetheless, the uncertainty surrounding this administration’s policies has markets spooked, triggering fears of a recession—something President Trump has indicated people may just have to live through. What are the real costs and benefits of Trump’s oscillating trade policies?

In object lessons, Alan went full nerd and prescribed himself a decade-long literary exile with “Gardens of the Moon,” the first in Steven Erikson’s ten-book epic. Scott’s old ass, meanwhile, threw its weight behind “My Old Ass,” a film about a young woman navigating family, love, and self-discovery—all with a little hallucinogenic assistance. And Natalie logrolled like a pro, plugging Quinta Jurecic’s guest spot on The Ezra Klein Show, where Quinta delivers one of Natalie’s all-time favorite “Quintaisms”—with all the necessary context baked right in.

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Jack Goldsmith sits down with Zachary Price, Professor of Law at UC Law San Francisco and author of the new book, “Constitutional Symmetry: Judging in a Divided Republic,” which argues for judges to make decisions that work “symmetrically” across major partisan and ideological divides. He explores the implications of this theory in the context of the Trump administration's legal actions, particularly regarding the removal power and the Supreme Court's evolving jurisprudence. 

The two discuss the implications of the unitary executive theory, particularly in relation to presidential power over law enforcement and executive orders. They analyze the TikTok executive order as a case study of presidential discretion and its potential overreach. The discussion also covers the implications of the Impoundment Control Act on congressional authority and the importance of maintaining a balance of power between the executive and legislative branches. Finally, they explore the concept of “constitutional symmetry” in the context of separation of powers and the role of civil service in preserving governmental integrity. 

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Carla Reyes, Associate Professor of Law at SMU Dedman School of Law, and Drew Hinkes, a Partner at Winston & Strawn with a practice focused on digital assets and advising financial services clients, join Kevin Frazier, Contributing Editor at Lawfare, to discuss the latest in cryptocurrency policy. The trio review the evolution of crypto-related policy since the Obama era, discuss the veracity of dominant crypto narratives, and explore what’s next from the Trump administration on this complex, evolving topic. 

Read more:

• TRM Labs 2025 Crypto Crime Report: https://www.trmlabs.com/2025-crypto-crime-report
• 2023 FDIC National Survey of Unbanked and Underbanked Households: https://www.fdic.gov/household-survey

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In a live conversation on March 7, Lawfare Executive Editor Natalie Orpett, sat down with associate professor of law at the University of Minnesota Law School Nick Bednar and Lawfare Senior Editors Anna Bower and Scott Anderson to discuss legal challenges to the Trump administration’s executive actions, including DOGE attempting to enter the U.S. African Development Foundation, the firing of probationary employees across the executive branch, and more.

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From March 1, 2022: Over the past week, the United States and its allies have responded to Russia's military invasion of Ukraine with some unprecedented actions of their own—economic sanctions that target Russia in ways that have never been tried before, let alone applied to one of the world's largest economies over just a handful of days.

To discuss this revolutionary sanctions strategy and what it may mean moving forward, Scott R. Anderson sat down with two sanctions experts: Julia Friedlander, senior fellow at the Atlantic Council, and Rachel Ziemba, adjunct fellow at the Center for a New American Security. They talked about the different types of sanctions being applied, what impact they will have on the Russian economy and what the consequences may be, not just for the conflict in Ukraine, but for the rest of the world moving forward.

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From February 26, 2024: At a South Carolina campaign rally on Feb. 10, former President Donald Trump told a crowd of supporters that while he was president he told “one of the presidents of a big country” in the NATO alliance that he would not protect that country from a Russian invasion if that country didn’t pay. Trump then said, “In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want. You got to pay. You got to pay your bills.” 

Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien sat down with Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson to talk through Trump’s NATO comments, why they’re rattling European allies, whether a U.S. president could destroy the alliance, and how Congress might stop it. They also talked about why everyone here at Lawfare calls Section 1250A of the recent National Defense Authorization Act the “Anderson Saves NATO” provision.

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For today's episode, Lawfare general counsel and senior editor Scott R. Anderson sat down with Edward Fishman, a senior research scholar at the Center for Global Energy Policy within Columbia University's School of International and Public Affairs, to discuss his new book: "Chokepoints: American Power in the Age of Economic Warfare."They discussed Fishman's own career at the cutting edge of economic statecraft, the evolving toolkit it has come to present U.S. policymakers, the role he thinks it will play in our new era of major power competition, and what it may all mean for the future of the global order.

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In the first weeks of the second Trump administration, the Office of Management and Budget abruptly froze trillions of dollars in federal funds—sparking a crisis over impoundment, the executive branch’s assertion of authority to refuse to distribute money appropriated by Congress. Since then, the administration has attempted to withhold further funds disbursed by specific agencies and attempted to dismantle some agencies altogether. Many of these efforts have been blocked by courts. But Congress—the branch of government whose constitutional authority is being usurped—has remained strikingly quiet.

To discuss the state of play on impoundment, Lawfare Senior Editor Quinta Jurecic caught up with Eloise Pasachoff, a professor at the Georgetown University Law Center, and Brookings Senior Fellow and Lawfare Senior Editor Molly Reynolds. They talked about how things have developed since January, how the courts and Congress are handling the crisis, and how it might shape congressional negotiations to avoid a government shutdown as soon as March 15. 

Note: This podcast was recorded on March 4, before the Supreme Court’s March 5 ruling denying the Trump administration’s request to continue a freeze on billions of dollars in foreign aid and sending the case back down to the district court for further litigation.

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This week, Scott was joined by his Lawfare colleagues Molly Reynolds and Quinta Jurecic to work through the week’s big national security news stories, including:

• “Kyiv Calm and Tarry On.” This past Friday, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy visited the White House for what turned into a disastrous meeting, in which President Donald Trump and Vice President J.D. Vance baited him into a heated public argument over Russia’s invasion of his country. In its aftermath, Trump refused to sign the minerals deal Zelensky was there to finalize and has now cut off U.S. assistance to Ukraine—though, at the time of recording, reports were emerging that the minerals deal was now back on track. And while European allies have stepped up their support for Ukraine, Trump’s Republican allies have united in support of him and increasingly called for Zelenskyy’s resignation. What contributed to this explosive about-face in U.S. policy towards Ukraine? And what does it tell us about the Trump administration’s decision-making?
• “Betting Against the House.” House Majority Leader Mike Johnson scored what many are framing as a big win last week when he—with help from President Trump and ally Elon Musk—was able to unite his fractious caucus’s narrow majority to pass their preferred budget. But there are concerns that aspects of the budget—and the broader agenda Trump is pressuring his party to unite behind—will likely undermine Republicans’ prospects of holding the House in 2026 midterm elections. What is the state of governance in Congress at the moment? And what does it mean for the Trump administration’s aggressive agenda.
• “Prime Directive.” Washington Post owner Jeff Bezos once again intervened in the newspaper’s opinions section last week, when he indicated that the paper no longer had a responsibility to reflect diverse views and would instead focus on issues of “personal liberties and free markets” that he thought were important for America—a mandate that led opinions editor David Shipley to resign. Is Bezos’s move an effort to dodge the ire of President Trump and his supporters? Or is something else in play? And what impact will it have on the paper’s future as an institution?

For object lessons, Quinta endorsed the New York Times Magazine’s lengthy art-imitates-life-imitates-art portrait of the Murdoch family and their odd relationship with the show Succession. Scott shared his discovery of a beautiful (and free!) online graphic novel of one of his favorite books, Lloyd Alexander’s “The Book of Three,” that’s made it much more accessible for his young son, and asked for listeners to recommend other good graphic novel translations of classic fantasy and sci-fi suitable for a younger audience. And Molly celebrated the best season of the year: Girl Scout cookie season!

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Use promo code RATIONALSECURITY at the link below to get an exclusive 60% off an annual Incogni plan:

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For today's episode, Lawfare General Counsel and Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sat down with Joel Braunold, the Managing Director for the S. Daniel Abraham Center for Middle East Peace and a Contributing Editor at Lawfare, to discuss the end of the first phase of the Gaza ceasefire and other recent developments relating to the Arab-Israeli conflict.

Together, they discussed how the terms of the ceasefire were changing, recent tensions between Israel and the new Syrian regime over threats to Druze communities, and how the Trump administration is trying to navigate it all. 

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Tim Fist, Director of Emerging Technology Policy at the Institute for Future Progress, and Arnab Datta, Director of Infrastructure Policy at IFP and Managing Director of Policy Implementation at Employ America, join Kevin Frazier, a Contributing Editor at Lawfare and adjunct professor at Delaware Law, to dive into the weeds of their thorough report on building America’s AI infrastructure. The duo extensively studied the gulf between the stated goals of America’s AI leaders and the practical hurdles to realizing those ambitious aims.

Check out the entire report series here: Compute in America

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In a live conversation on February 28, Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes spoke to Lawfare Senior Editors Anna Bower and Roger Parloff and Assistant Professor of Law at the University of Houston Law Center Chris Mirasol about the detention of immigrants at Guantanamo Bay, the dismantling of USAID and the foreign aid freeze, the firing of probationary employees across the federal government, and more.You can find information on legal challenges to Trump administration actions here.

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From February 21, 2024: The advocacy group Protect Democracy last month issued an updated version of its report entitled, “The Authoritarian Playbook.” The new report is called, “The Authoritarian Playbook for 2025: How an authoritarian president will dismantle our democracy and what we can do to protect it.” It is a fascinating compilation of things that Donald Trump has promised to do and how they could likely be expected to affect American democracy if he is elected to a second term in office. 

To discuss the report, Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes spoke with two of its authors: Genevieve Nadeau and Erica Newland, both of Protect Democracy. They talked about what's new in the report, how much of it is speculation and how much of it is simply taking Donald Trump's words seriously, opportunities to mitigate the most dire consequences of which the report warns, and whether this is just baked into the American presidency when occupied by a truly authoritarian personality. 

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From March 14, 2022: Russia's war of aggression in Ukraine has undermined some of the fundamental assumptions underlying the security of Europe through much of the post-World War II era. As a result, several European nations have begun to consider dramatic changes in how they approach national security, both individually and collectively.

To better understand how the war in Ukraine is reshaping the European security order, Scott R. Anderson sat down with two of his colleagues from the Brookings Institution: Célia Belin, a visiting fellow at Brookings and a former official in the French Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and Constanze Stelzenmüller, the Fritz Stern Chair on Germany and trans-Atlantic Relations in the Center on the United States and Europe.

They discussed how the Ukraine conflict is reshaping Europe's approach to security affairs, what this means for institutions like the European Union and NATO, and how these changes are likely to impact the fundamental debate over what it means to be a part of Europe.

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On today’s episode, the Washington Post's West Africa bureau chief Rachel Chason and freelance journalist John Lechner join Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien to talk about the current state of the Sahel and the many forces that have converged in the region over the past couple of years.

They discussed Chason’s new series out in the Post, “Crossroads of Conflict,” which includes six rich portraits of Sahelian actors, including: an Islamist militant, a militia commander, a Russian mercenary, an American soldier, a coup leader, and a defiant broadcaster. They also talked about Lechner’s forthcoming book, “Death Is Our Business: Russian Mercenaries and the New Era of Private Warfare.”

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For today’s episode, Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sat down with Kathleen Claussen, an expert in international economic law and professor at the Georgetown University Law Center, and Lawfare Contributing Editor Peter Harrell, a non-resident senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, to discuss the ambitious set of tariffs the Trump administration has imposed or threatened over its first month in office.

They discussed the tariffs Trump has imposed so far, what seems to be coming over the horizon, and how they all line up with the legal authorities he is using to impose them.

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This week, Scott joined his Lawfare colleagues Benjamin Wittes, Natalie Orpett, and Anastasiia Lapatina for a rare, all-in-person discussion of the week’s big national security news, including:

• “Chicken Kyiv, Served Cold.” The Trump administration’s vision for a peace settlement in Ukraine is coming into focus—and it’s not the one many Ukrainians and Europeans were hoping for. In negotiations that have largely excluded Ukrainian and European partners—and amidst a barrage of hostile attacks on Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s democratic legitimacy—the Trump administration appears to be insisting on some U.S. stake in Ukraine’s rare earth minerals while remaining unwilling to support Ukraine’s NATO membership and resistant to providing hard security guarantees in response. Are the contours of such a deal something Ukraine can agree to? And will it advance U.S. and Ukrainian national security interests?
• “Euro Vision.” In some of his first comments since emerging from elections as Germany’s new chancellor, Friedrich Merz called for European independence from the United States, in light of the Trump administration’s increasing neglect (and even hostility) to longstanding transatlantic partnerships. And Ukraine may be the first front for this new policy orientation, as European officials have suggested an increased willingness to deploy ground troops to Ukraine, increase their own assistance levels, and even make an alternate offer for access to Ukraine’s rare earth minerals. How much potential is there for a truly independent European foreign policy? And what will it mean for U.S. national interests?
• “Baywatch Reruns.” As part of its aggressive campaign against undocumented migrants, the Trump administration has expanded its use of the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay for what it claims to be the “worst of the worst” undocumented migrants involved in violent crimes. But recent reporting has cast serious doubt on whether everyone who has been detained at Guantanamo meets this qualification, while others have raised questions about the conditions in which detainees are being held and the legal basis for the involvement of military personnel. What is the Trump administration really trying to accomplish? And is Guantanamo Bay once again becoming a black mark on American rule of law?

In object lessons, Natalie confirmed the existence of the year’s most top-secret, exclusive diplomatic gathering—the Lawfare Baby Summit. Anastasiia unveiled Escalation, a long-anticipated narrative podcast series from Lawfare and Goat Rodeo about the history of the U.S.-Ukraine relationship. Scott—in true elder Millennial fashion—identified with the gracefully aging, definitely not old, Before Trilogy from Richard Linklater. And Ben marked the third anniversary of Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine with a somber reflection on the sparse turnout at a Lincoln Memorial rally over the weekend, underscoring the ongoing challenge of building mass political movements from within small communities.

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On Feb. 24, Fiona Hill (Senior Fellow, Foreign Policy, Center on the United States and Europe), Constanze Stelzenmüller, (Director at the Center on the United States and Europe; Senior Fellow, Foreign Policy, Center on the United States and Europe; and Fritz Stern Chair on Germany and Trans-Atlantic Relations), Anastasiia Lapatina (Ukraine Fellow, Lawfare), Tyler McBrien (Managing Editor, Lawfare), and Benjamin Wittes (Editor-in-Chief, Lawfare) recorded a live discussion at the Brookings Institution on "Trump’s return and the fate of Ukraine" and Lawfare and Goat Rodeo's new narrative podcast series on the U.S. and Ukraine, Escalation. 

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Alexandra Reeve Givens, CEO of the Center for Democracy & Technology; Courtney Lang, Vice President of Policy for Trust, Data, and Technology at ITI and a Non-Resident Senior Fellow at the Atlantic Council GeoTech Center; and Nema Milaninia, a partner on the Special Matters & Government Investigations team at King & Spalding, join Kevin Frazier, Contributing Editor at Lawfare and Adjunct Professor at Delaware Law, to discuss the Paris AI Action Summit and whether it marks a formal pivot away from AI safety to AI security and, if so, what an embrace of AI security means for domestic and international AI governance.

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In a live conversation on February 21, Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes spoke to Lawfare Senior Editors Anna Bower, Scott Anderson, and Roger Parloff about the Justice Department moving to drop the criminal case against NYC Mayor Eric Adams and lawsuits challenging executive actions by President Trump and his administration, including the dismantling of USAID, DOGE’s communications with executive agencies, and the attempt to ban transgender service members from the military.

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From September 20, 2023: Economic warfare isn’t a new concept. Protectionist policies, asymmetrical trade agreements, currency wars—those are just a few examples of the economic levers states have long used to control outcomes. But in their new book, two political scientists, Henry Farrell and Abe Newman, argue that a technological innovation spurred on by free market embracers and coopted by the U.S. was an accidental entry point into a new era of economic statecraft—an era whose precise contours and rules are still being ironed out today, as we are fighting in a so-called economic war. 

Lawfare Associate Editor Hyemin Han talked to them about how this weaponization came to be, how U.S. national security objectives are bleeding into economic warfare, and what policymakers might focus on in trying to ensure that the economic web that the U.S. currently sits at the center of is not ravaged by its own power. 

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From June 11, 2021: Daniel Richman and Sarah Seo are professors at Columbia Law School, and they are co-authors of a recent article on Lawfare entitled, "Toward a New Era for Federal and State Oversight of Local Police." Benjamin Wittes sat down with them to discuss the article, the history of the federal-state relationship in law enforcement, how the feds came to play an oversight role with respect to police departments, the limits of that role inherent in the cooperative relationship that law enforcement agencies engage in for other reasons, the role that the feds might play under new legislation and the role that state governments may play as well.

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Before January, most Americans had probably never heard of the Bureau of the Fiscal Service (BFS), a Treasury Department agency that distributes payments from the federal government. But over the last month, this corner of government has appeared again and again in the headlines, as aides working with Elon Musk’s quasi-governmental DOGE initiative successfully gained access to BFS’s payment systems. After a flurry of litigation, a temporary restraining order now bars these aides from accessing data—but the crisis is not over. It’s still not clear precisely what happened within BFS or what access political actors within the administration might gain in the future, and DOGE continues to access similarly sensitive systems in other agencies, such as the Social Security Administration and the Internal Revenue Service.

To understand what’s happening, Senior Editor Quinta Jurecic spoke with Wendy Edelberg, Director of the Hamilton Project and Senior Fellow at the Brookings Institution, and Jacob Leibenluft, who served in the Treasury Department and the Office of Management and Budget under the Biden administration. Why is it so alarming to have political appointees accessing BFS systems? What does this tell us about the administration’s political goals? And what manner of crises could result from this kind of meddling? 

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This week, Scott sat down with his colleagues Tyler McBrien and Roger Parloff, as well as special guest Claire Meynial, U.S. correspondent for Le Point, to talk over the week's big national security news, including:

• “Make Europe Aghast Again.” Vice President J.D. Vance stunned the Munich Security Conference last week with remarks that criticized European allies for suppressing far-right and anti-immigration voices while playing down threats from China and Russia. Combined with the Trump administration’s past hostility to Transatlantic relationships, many are taking Vance’s as a sign of a downgrade in the U.S.-Europe relationship. But is this overstating things? And how far can the Trump administration adjust the relationship on its own, even if it wanted to?
• “I Would Do Anything for Bove, but I Won’t Do That.” (Credit to Robert Anderson, via Mike Stern.) The resignation of seven Justice Department attorneys over their refusal to move to dismiss charges against New York City Mayor Eric Adams at the direction of acting Deputy Attorney General Emil Bove has brought national attention to the Trump administration’s apparent intent to use its discretion over criminal prosecution as a policy tool to advance its immigration and potentially other agendas. But what do these recent events tell us about the potential for—and limits on—such a strategy? 
• “Animus Instinct.” The legal challenge to President Trump’s executive order banning transgender individuals from military service and halting gender-affirming care finally had a hearing in federal court this week. And in a barnburner, U.S. District Judge Ana Reyes raked the Justice Department over the coals, querying whether the ban was the result of “animus.” But how big a difference will her line of inquiry make in the end? Is there any realistic chance the courts will intervene?

For object lessons, Roger recommended a visit to the Holocaust Museum as an opportunity for a sober reflection. Tyler passed along Noah Schachtman's portrait of the players in the Eric Adams resignation scandal in Vanity Fair. Scott passed along his new favorite vegetarian pasta recipe, pasta al sugo finto. And Claire discussed some of her work on abortion rights in advance of International Women's Day on March 8, including research into the Comstock Act. 

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On Jan. 29, President Trump ordered the expansion of facilities at Guantanamo Bay to hold migrants being deported from the United States. It was the latest—and perhaps most aggressive—move to deploy the U.S. military in pursuit of the administration's immigration policies. And it's not at all clear that there's a solid legal basis for doing it. Executive Editor Natalie Orpett sat down with Chris Mirasola, Assistant Professor at the University of Houston Law Center and author of a recent piece in Lawfare on this subject, to talk through the legal issues, the administration's strategy, and what it all means for Trump's unconventional use of the military.

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It’s been a wild and wooly week in Ukraine politics: Speeches from American officials have not been consistent with each other, American statements on Ukraine at the Munich Security Conference were not well received by European leaders, and domestic politics in Ukraine are getting worrisome. Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sits down with Eric Ciaramella of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace to talk about all of these issues and more.

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Matt Perault, Head of AI Policy at Andreessen Horowitz, joins Kevin Frazier, Contributing Editor at Lawfare and Adjunct Professor at Delaware Law, to define the Little Tech Agenda and explore how adoption of the Agenda may shape AI development across the country. The duo also discuss the current AI policy landscape.

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In a live conversation on February 14, Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes spoke to Lawfare Senior Editors Anna Bower, Scott Anderson, and Roger Parloff and Managing Editor Tyler McBrien about the lawsuits challenging executive actions by President Trump and his administration, including the foreign aid freeze, access to Treasury Department systems by associates of the Department of Government Efficiency, and the firing of the head of the Office of the Special Counsel.

You can find information on legal challenges to Trump administration actions here.

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From August 18, 2021: Earlier this month, Tucker Carlson, whose nightly news show on Fox has become the most popular show in U.S. cable news history, traveled to Budapest to record a special version of his show. The centerpiece of his visit was an interview with Hungary's authoritarian leader, Viktor Orbán. But far from criticizing Orbán or questioning him on Hungary's increasing move away from liberal democracy, Carlson was all compliments, praising the fence that Hungary has built along its border and allowing Orbán to lash out against his critics at home and abroad.

Carlson is not the only one with kind words for Hungary's would-be strongman. In the past months, an increasing number of conservative media and intellectual elites have praised Hungary, as well as earlier models like Portugal under the post-World War II right-wing dictator António Salazar, for what they view as its willingness to use state power to fight for conservative social, cultural and religious values.

To discuss what this embrace of foreign authoritarianism means for the American conservative movement, Alan Rozenshtein spoke with Zack Beauchamp, a senior correspondent at Vox, who has written about the right’s embrace of Orbánism and what it means for the future of American democracy.

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From July 14, 2020: In a 2018 poll, 74 percent of Americans said they believed that some group of unelected government and military officials was definitely or probably secretly manipulating or directing national policy. What is the actual history of presidents and Congress clashing with national security and law enforcement institutions? And how has that led to Trump's notion of a deep state out to get him? David Priess spoke with two-time Pulitzer Prize winner David Rohde of The New Yorker, who has turned his attention to this tricky topic in the new book, "In Deep: The FBI, the CIA, and the Truth about America's 'Deep State.'" They talked about intelligence, law enforcement, inspectors general, public trust in government and of course, Bill Barr.

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In the last two years, there have been at least four incidents of damaged underwater infrastructure in the Baltic Sea. Be it Russian deliberate sabotage or accidents, NATO is looking for ways to enhance Europe’s maritime security.

In this episode, Lawfare’s Ukraine Fellow Anastasiia Lapatina sits down with Minna Ålander, an Associate Fellow at Chatham House’s Europe Programme, to discuss what Europe can do to protect its waters. 

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Only a few weeks have passed since inauguration, but President Trump's barrage of executive orders has already generated dozens of legal challenges. Which raises the question: are the courts up to the job? Executive Editor Natalie Orpett sat down with Benjamin Wittes, Lawfare's Editor-in-Chief, to discuss his recent article, “Are the Courts Up to the Situation?,” published in Lawfare earlier this week. They talked about the courts' role in the face of unprecedented assertions of executive power, how they're faring so far, and what comes next.

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This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare teammates Tyler McBrien and Nastya Lapatina and Lawfare friend Joel Braunold, Managing Director of the S. Daniel Abraham Center for Middle East Peace, to talk over the week's big national security news stories, including:

• “Mi Gaza Es Su Gaza.” President Donald Trump shocked the world last week when, in a joint press briefing with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, he announced plans for the United States to “own” Gaza, take responsibility for reconstructing it, and ultimately renovate it into a “Riviera” on the Eastern Mediterranean—one, he later made clear, that Palestinians would no longer be allowed to live in. What of this plan is serious and what is bluster? And what impact will it have on the broader Israeli-Palestinian conflict, including the delicate ceasefire that Trump’s emissary worked so hard to secure just weeks ago in Gaza?
• “Bullets for Bauxite.” President Trump recently reiterated his desire for a quick end to the conflict in Ukraine, a topic on which senior Trump administration and Ukrainian officials will be talking soon. But peace will come at a price—in this case, a deal guaranteeing U.S. access to Ukraine’s rare earth minerals, among other concessions. Is Trump’s timeline realistic? And how is his administration’s “America First” tack likely to impact the trajectory of the conflict?
• “Quid Pro Whoa.” Acting Deputy Attorney General Emil Bove took the exceptional step this week of directing the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York to dismiss corruption charges—arising from alleged improper contributions and relationships with foreign government officials, including from Turkey—against New York Mayor Eric Adams so that Adams could focus his energy combating high crime and unlawful immigration. What should we make of such a clear quid pro quo? And what might it mean for the Justice Department moving forward?

For object lessons, Tyler and Nastya plugged Lawfare's next big long-form audio documentary series, which they co-host and is set to debut later this month: Escalation, a podcast about the war in Ukraine. Scott recommended an incredibly touching piece in the New York Times about faith, parenthood, and reconciling the two, entitled "How My Dad Reconciled His God with His Gay Son," by Timothy White. And in honor of the man's Super Bowl victory, Joel shared one of his favorite quotes from Philadelphia Eagles quarterback Jalen Hurts, which has particular resonance with the peacebuilding community he works in: "I had a purpose before anybody had an opinion."

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Jack Goldsmith, the Learned Hand Professor at Harvard Law School and co-founder of Lawfare, joins Alan Rozenshtein, Associate Professor of Law at the University of Minnesota and Senior Editor at Lawfare, to talk about his recent Lawfare article discussing last year's Supreme Court decision in Trump v. United States and its implications for executive power. They discuss how the ruling extends beyond presidential immunity, the broader shift toward a maximalist theory of executive authority, and what this means for the future of American democracy.

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Chris Miller, a professor at the Fletcher School at Tufts University and Nonresident Senior Fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, and Marshall Kosloff, Senior Fellow at the Niskanen Center and co-host of the Realignment Podcast, join Kevin Frazier, a Contributing Editor at Lawfare and adjunct professor at Delaware Law, and Alan Rozenshtein, Senior Editor at Lawfare and associate professor of law at the University of Minnesota, to discuss AI, supply chains, and the Abundance Agenda.

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In a live conversation on February 7, Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes spoke to Lawfare Senior Editors Anna Bower, Quinta Jurecic, and Roger Parloff about the lawsuits against executive actions by President Trump and his administration, including the actions by DOGE to gain access to executive agencies, the attempt to dissolve USAID, the attempt to produce a list and potentially fire FBI agent and employees who were involved with the Jan. 6 investigations, and more.

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From August 22, 2023: In 2003, President Bush created the President’s Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief, or PEPFAR, and in the twenty years since, the program has been credited with saving over 25 million lives and stabilizing health systems around the world. On Sept. 30, 2023, the program will expire if Congress doesn’t act, putting millions of people at risk of losing access to HIV/AIDS treatment.

Lawfare Associate Editor of Communications Anna Hickey sat down with Emily Bass, a writer and activist who has spent more than twenty years writing about and working on HIV/AIDS. In 2021, she wrote “To End a Plague,” a book on America's war on AIDS in Africa. They discussed how PEPFAR has changed over the past 2 decades, why it is at risk of expiring this fall, and what the expiration would mean for the millions of people who depend on it.

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From August 31, 2020: Earlier this month, the Trump administration re-imposed tariffs on aluminum imports from Canada, signaling a new salvo in the now years-long trade war it has been waging with countless U.S. trading partners. But what gives the president the authority to pursue such measures unilaterally, even when he lacks support from members of his own party in Congress? To talk through this question, Scott R. Anderson sat down with Kathleen Claussen of the University of Miami School of Law and Timothy Meyer of Vanderbilt Law School. They discussed the scope of the president's authority over trade, where it came from and what a future Congress might be able to do about it.

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On today’s podcast, Lawfare Associate Editor for Communications Anna Hickey spoke to Nayna Gupta, Director of Policy at the American Immigration Council, about the Laken Riley Act, the first piece of legislation signed by President Trump in his second term, its start as a messaging bill in the last Congress, and its impact on the immigration detention system.

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Lawfare Foreign Policy Editor and Georgetown professor Daniel Byman sits down with Holly Berkley Fletcher, a former Senior Africa Analyst at the Central Intelligence Agency, to discuss the complex and tragic situation in Sudan and her recent Lawfare article on the subject, “The Sudan War and the Limits of American Power.” They talk about the initial hope following the overthrow of Omar al-Bashir in 2019, the subsequent military conflicts in Sudan, the country’s humanitarian crisis, the role of regional powers, and the challenges faced by civilians and the international community in addressing the ongoing violence and suffering. 

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This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Benjamin Wittes, Molly Reynolds, and Anna Bower to talk through another big week of national security news, including:

• “Checked Out and Off Balance.” Over its first two weeks in office, the Trump administration has pushed against the traditional limits of congressional authority by unlawfully impounding funds, terminating federal employees contrary to statute, and seeking to dismantle at least one federal agency contrary to statute. But the Republican-controlled Congress has thus far remained almost entirely complacent, if not supportive of the president’s actions. How far will the Trump administration be able to go? And what will the long-term consequences be for the separation of powers?
• “Jus Soli? Jus Kidding.’” As one of his first acts after returning to the White House, Donald Trump issued an executive order refusing to recognize birthright citizenship in the United States for anyone whose parents are not citizens or lawful permanent residents. All told, it seems like a clear effort to trigger a review of the traditional understanding of the 14th Amendment as implementing jus soli, meaning citizenship based on place of birth. But how likely is it to work?
• “Fo’ Drizz(coll).” The Trump administration’s promised campaign of retribution has hit the Justice Department, where senior supervisors have been reassigned and prosecutors involved in the Jan. 6 investigations have been terminated, perhaps unlawfully. But now efforts to gather the names of FBI agents involved in those same investigations for presumed retribution are facing serious pushback, including from the Bureau’s Acting Director Brian Driscoll (known as “the Drizz”). How hard can the FBI and Justice Department push back? And where are the legal limits on what the Trump administration can do?

In object lessons, Molly chose not to gamble and stayed on-brand with her recommendation of local-NPR-affiliate podcast Scratch & Win. Ben asked himself the question that many at the FBI are asking themselves these days: “WWDD?” Scott followed the sentiment with an endorsement of “Civil servants shouldn’t quit their jobs,” by Matthew Yglesias. And Anna insisted that her reverence of the TV show Severance has absolutely nothing—really, nothing—to do with belly buttons.

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On Jan. 28, the Office of Personnel Management (OPM) sent out an email offering a “deferred resignation program” to over 2 million federal employees, encouraging them to resign effective Sept. 30. The offer is only open until Feb. 6—and in the intervening days since OPM announced the program, federal employees have received a blizzard of followup emails offering confusing and rapidly changing information. 

Writing in Lawfare, Nick Bednar has examined the OPM offer and raised questions about whether federal employees who take this option will be able to seek legal recourse if their contract is not paid out. On the podcast, Bednar, an associate professor of law at the University of Minnesota, joined Lawfare Senior Editor Quinta Jurecic to walk through the many legal issues raised by the program and how federal employees are handling this period of uncertainty.

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Today’s episode is a recording of Feb. 3 livestream that Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson hosted with George Ingram and Tony Pipa, both Senior Fellows in Global Economy and Development at the Brookings Institution, and Jonathan Katz, Senior Director of the Anti-Corruption, Democracy, and Security project also at Brookings—all three of whom are also alumni of the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID). Among other topics, they discussed the USAID’s tumultuous experience over the first two weeks of the Trump administration, the serious consequences of the sudden freeze President Trump installed on U.S. foreign assistance, the sudden removal of hundreds of USAID personnel, and rumors that USAID is set to be subsumed into the U.S. Department of State.

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Nema Milaninia, a former prosecutor at the International Criminal Court and International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia and a current partner at the law firm King & Spalding, joins Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien to discuss legislation in the U.S. Congress and recent executive actions taken by the Trump administration to, once again, sanction the International Criminal Court. 

Milaninia discusses what is motivating the most recent sanctions campaign, broke down the many criticisms—some legitimate, some less so—against the Court, and explained why sanctions, which are typically reserved for criminal organizations, would benefit no one. He also speaks about how, despite the ICC's best efforts to insulate itself, sanctions pose an existential threat to the institution.

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From May 9, 2022: Many individuals seeking asylum or other forms of immigration relief in the U.S. are subject to a program run by Immigration Customs Enforcement, or ICE, called the Intensive Supervision Appearance Program, which uses various kinds of tracking technologies as a way of keeping tabs on individuals who are not detained in ICE custody.

Stephanie Pell sat down with Sejal Zota, legal director of Just Futures Law, to talk about this program and the kinds of tracking technologies it employees. They discussed what is publicly known about these technologies, the privacy concerns associated with them, as well as some of the harms experienced by individuals who are subjected to the surveillance. Not withstanding these concerns, they also discussed whether the Intensive Supervision Appearance Program is a reasonable alternative to ICE detention, considering ICE’s need to keep track of individuals who are both seeking immigration relief and who may be ordered removed from the U.S. if that relief is not granted.

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In a live conversation on January 30, Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes spoke to Lawfare Senior Editors Anna Bower, Quinta Jurecic, and Roger Parloff and contributing editor Renee DiResta about the confirmation hearings of Kash Patel to be FBI director, Tulsi Gabbard to be the director of national intelligence, and Robert F. Kennedy to be the health and human services secretary.

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For today’s episode, Lawfare General Counsel and Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sat down with Chris Mirasola, an assistant professor at the University of Houston Law Center and former Defense Department lawyer, to talk through the ways that the Trump administration is using the military to enforce its new immigration policies.

They discussed the steps the Trump administration has taken thus far, from transporting migrants on military flights to threatening to send them to Guantanamo Bay; the legal theories that the Trump administration is putting out there that might justify other, broader uses of the military; additional steps we should expect the administration to pursue in the near future; and what it all might mean for the rule of law and civil-military relations in our country.

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This week, the Office of Management and Budget announced a breathtakingly broad freeze on federal funds—before scrambling to clarify that freeze and seemingly rolling it back only two days later. The crisis touches on profound questions about the congressional power of the purse and limitations on presidential power under the Impoundment Control Act. To explain what’s going on, Lawfare Senior Editor Quinta Jurecic spoke with Eloise Pasachoff, a professor at Georgetown Law School, and Zachary Price of the University of California College of Law San Francisco.

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This week, Scott was joined by his colleagues Kevin and Eugenia—in what is sadly her last episode before leaving Lawfare—as well as special guest Peter Harrell for a deep dive into the week’s national security news, including:

• “Tariff or Takeoff.” The Trump administration got into what is arguably its first major international spat this week when Colombia’s refusal to accept a U.S. military flight returning migrants to that country led President Trump to threaten an array of punitive measures, from visa cut-offs to sanctions and tariffs. After Colombian President Gustavo Petro backed down, the White House was quick to claim victory. But how sustainable is Trump’s strategy? And is it really the route to restoring respect for the United States that the White House claims it is?
• “Talk to Me When They Get To ‘Project: The Fifth Element.’” Last week, the Trump administration announced Project Stargate—an initiative not to revive ‘90s sci-fi classics, but to instead make a massive investment in the U.S. development of artificial intelligence and related technologies. But a few days later, an announcement by Chinese AI platform DeepSeek indicating it had reached comparable results at a lower cost triggered a sudden decline in the value of AI-related stocks. What do these developments tell us about the competitive dynamics surrounding AI? And how should the United States be navigating them?
• “A Friend in Need is a Friend Shit Out of Luck.” The Trump administration has issued an across-the-board freeze of U.S. foreign assistance programs for 90 days as it reviews them for consistency with the administration’s vision of “America First” foreign policy. But what ramifications will this pause really have for U.S. foreign policy and beyond?

For object lessons, Kevin plugged the Seattle University School of Law’s Technology, Innovation Law, and Ethics Program. Eugenia got back to her roots in recommending the indie RPG video game Wildermyth, which follows a troupe of fantasy heroes from modest origins through their sunset years. Scott out-nerded Eugenia by recommending a pen-and-paper indie RPG, the physically gorgeous Thousand Year Old Vampire. And Peter kept it professional by recommending Arthur Herman’s book “Freedom’s Forge” as a case study on U.S. industrial policy that may have lessons for our current historical moment.

Use promo code RATIONALSECURITY at the link below to get an exclusive 60% off an Incogni annual plan:

https://incogni.com/rationalsecurity

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Peter Hyun, then-Acting Chief of the Enforcement Bureau at the Federal Communications Commission, discusses with Lawfare Contributing Editor Justin Sherman the FCC’s data security and cybersecurity enforcement authorities and how those authorities fit into addressing national security threats to the communications supply chain. He covers some recent enforcement actions and issues in this area, ranging from the FCC’s data breach notification rule to submarine cables to rip-and-replace efforts targeting Chinese telecom components, and he offers predictions for how technology supply chains, national security risks, and entanglement with China may evolve in the years to come.

Note: Peter Hyun was in his position at the FCC at the time of recording and is now no longer with the Commission following the change in administration.

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In today’s episode, Lawfare Senior Editor Alan Z. Rozenshtein speaks with his University of Minnesota Law colleague, Nick Bednar, about the wave of Day 1 executive orders affecting the civil service. Bednar recently analyzed these orders in a piece for Lawfare. They discuss what the orders say, how they might be challenged in court, and what this means for the next four years and beyond.

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In a live conversation on January 23, Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes spoke to Lawfare Senior Editors Scott R. Anderson, Anna Bower, Quinta Jurecic, and Alan Rozenshtein and assistant law professor at Pace University Amelia Wilson about the first batch of executive orders by President Trump in his second term, including suspending enforcement of the TikTok ban, the use of the military at the border, the birthright citizenship order, and the legal challenges some of these orders are facing.

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From February 15, 2023: The Jan. 6 committee’s final report on the insurrection is over 800 pages, including the footnotes. But there’s still new information coming out about the committee’s findings and its work.

Last week, we brought you an interview with Dean Jackson, one of the staffers who worked on the Jan. 6 committee’s investigation into the role of social media in the insurrection. Today, we’re featuring a conversation with Jacob Glick, who served as investigative counsel on the committee and is currently a policy counsel at Georgetown’s Institute for Constitutional Advocacy and Protection. His work in the Jan. 6 investigation focused on social media and far-right extremism. Lawfare senior editor Quinta Jurecic spoke with Jacob about what the investigation showed him about the forces that led to Jan. 6, how he understands the threat still posed by extremism, and what it was like interviewing Twitter whistleblowers and members of far-right groups who stormed the Capitol.

You can read Jacob’s Lawfare article here, his essay with Mary McCord on countering extremism here in Just Security, and an interview with him and his Jan. 6 committee colleagues here at Tech Policy Press.

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From November 3, 2023: Since Hamas’s attack on Israel on Oct. 7, the Israel-Hamas war has largely been fought in Gaza, a small strip of land along the border of the Mediterranean Sea. But farther inland, there has been an uptick in hostilities between Israelis and Palestinians in the Palestinian territory of the West Bank. Israeli human rights organization B’Tselem says that at least 13 Palestinian herding communities in the West Bank have been forcibly displaced since the beginning of the war due to Israeli settler violence and intimidation, and nearly 100 Palestinians in the territory are reported to have been killed since the war began by both Israeli military strikes as well as settler violence. 

The fraught relationship between the Israeli government, Israeli settlers, Palestinians, and the Palestinian Authority are not new. But in part because of those existing issues, the West Bank has the potential to expand and complicate the bounds of the Israel-Hamas war—and some may argue that that is already underway. 

To understand how the West Bank fits into the ongoing hostilities between Israel and Hamas, Lawfare Associate Editor Hyemin Han spoke to Dan Byman from the Center for Strategic & International Studies, who is also Lawfare’s Foreign Policy Editor; Ghaith al-Omari of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy; and Scott R. Anderson, Lawfare Senior Editor and Fellow in Governance Studies at the Brookings Institution. They talked about the international law that currently governs the rules of engagement in the West Bank, the political responses of the Israeli government and other Arab states, and how West Bank dynamics will impact the broader outcomes of the Israel-Hamas war. 

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Aram Gavoor, Associate Dean for Academic Affairs at GW Law, joins Kevin Frazier, a Tarbell Fellow at Lawfare, to summarize and analyze the Trump administration’s initial moves to pivot the nation’s AI policy toward relentless innovation. The duo discuss the significance of Trump rescinding the Biden administration’s 2023 executive order on AI as well as the recently announced Stargate Project.

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Alexis Loeb, the former Deputy Chief of the Capitol Siege Section of the Department of Justice, sits down with Lawfare Senior Editor Roger Parloff to talk about President Trump's blanket pardons and commutations for everyone her unit prosecuted. 

She discusses how she became involved with the cases; how they were handled by prosecutors, judges, and juries; a couple of cases she personally prosecuted; and her views on the impact of Trump's pardon proclamation.

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This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues and hosts emeriti Benjamin Wittes, Quinta Jurecic, and Alan Rozenshtein to talk through the week’s big—and we mean BIG—national security news, including:

• “Executive Disorder.” America’s once-and-future President Donald Trump hit the ground running, issuing dozens of executive actions on his first afternoon in office, from once again withdrawing from the Paris climate agreement to pardoning or commuting the sentences for almost everyone involved in the Jan. 6 insurrection. But which actions are important and which are just for the show? And what do they tell us about what to expect from a second Trump presidency?
• “Swiping Up on Consistency.” The Supreme Court’s decision to uphold the law banning TikTok triggered an unexpected crisis last week, as TikTok users who suddenly realized the platform was in danger apparently mounted a pressure campaign against elected officials that led several, including President Biden, to waffle on the desirability of the ban. But incoming President Donald Trump, who once tried to ban TikTok himself, jumped in with an order temporarily delaying the ban—a move that TikTok thanked him for by name in a notice on the platform after service was restored. What explains the sudden about-face among supporters of the TikTok ban?
• “Cease and Assist.” After more than a year of brutal hostilities, the parties have finally agreed to a ceasefire in the conflict over Gaza. But as Israeli hostages are gradually let free, humanitarian assistance resumes, and displaced Gazans return to their devastated neighborhoods, real questions remain. Is this just a pause or an end to the conflict? And what comes next in Gaza either way? 

In object lessons, Ben encouraged listeners to listen to Merrick Garland’s farewell speech to the Justice Department, regardless of how you feel about the former attorney general. Quinta embraced a sense of escapism with her praise of the Wallace & Gromit movies, particularly the newest addition to the franchise, Wallace & Gromit: Vengeance Most Fowl. And Scott—wondering what will become of us now—mustered up his best inner disgruntled, middle-aged Millennial voice to recommend Michael Longfellow’s plea to not ban TikTok from SNL’s Weekend Update.

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For today’s episode, Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sat down with a panel of leading experts to discuss the recent ceasefire in Gaza, including: Natan Sachs, Senior Fellow at the Brookings Institution; Dan Byman, Professor at Georgetown University and Senior Fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies; Joel Braunold, Managing Director of the S. Daniel Abraham Center for Middle East Peace; and Dr. Dana El-Kurd, Professor at the University of Richmond. 

They discussed the terms of the ceasefire, who deserves credit for bringing it into place, what factors may contribute to its ultimate success or failure, and where it is likely to lead in the weeks and months to come.

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Senior Editor at Lawfare Eugenia Lostri sits down with Kevin Frazier, Lawfare’s Tarbell Fellow in Artificial Intelligence, to discuss recent disruptions to undersea cables. They talk about the ongoing investigations; the challenges that weather, cooperation, and jurisdiction can present; and the plans in place to protect the cables from accidents and sabotage.

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From July 11, 2022: We often use the terms democracy and liberal democracy interchangeably, but they're not the same thing. Democracy means majority rule and public participation. Liberal democracy means democracy plus minority rights. There's no guarantee that democracy will be liberal. And in fact, some of the same things that enable democracy can also undermine its liberal commitments.

Zac Gershberg, a professor of journalism and media studies at Idaho State University and Sean Illing, the host of the Vox Conversations podcast, have recently released a new book, The Paradox of Democracy: Free Speech, Open Media, and Perilous Persuasion.

In the book, they argue that every democracy is fundamentally shaped by the dominant media technology of its time. And that the current landscape of social media and cable news fuels our democracy, but also pushes it in an illiberal authoritarian direction. Alan Rozenshtein spoke with Zac and Sean about how American democracy got to this point, how the present compares to the past, and what, if anything, can be done to put liberal democracy on firmer footing.

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From February 11, 2017: Donald Trump's election as president brought a surge of interest in the previously obscure Emoluments Clause, which prohibits any “Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under [the United States]” from accepting “any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.” Norm Eisen and Richard Painter, ethics experts for Presidents Barack Obama and George W. Bush, have been leading the charge to hold Trump accountable under the Emoluments Clause for his failure to divest of his businesses. Recently, they filed suit against him in their capacity as chair and vice-chair of the good government group Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington. Benjamin Wittes chats with Norm about the Emoluments Clause, the lawsuit, and what all this has to do with national security.

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From January 7, 2017: In an interview with The New York Times before his intelligence briefing on Russian efforts to interfere in the U.S. election on Friday, President-elect Donald Trump called the intelligence community's assessment of Russian interference a "political witch hunt." In that spirit, Benjamin Wittes brought Lawfare managing editor Susan Hennessey and former GCHQ information security specialist Matt Tait on the podcast to discuss evidence of Russian attempts to influence the presidential election and Trump's baffling response.

A quick note: This podcast was recorded before the Office of the Director of National Intelligence released the intelligence community's report on Russian interference. Susan and Matt's firm belief that the hacking of Democratic Party information was carried out neither by a 14-year-old nor by a 400-pound person sitting on a bed, however, remains unshaken.

Ben says he still suspects a 400-pound 14-year-old sitting on a bed—albeit a bed in Moscow at GRU headquarters.

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Janet Egan, Senior Fellow at the Center for a New American Security (CNAS) and Lennart Heim, an AI researcher at RAND, join Kevin Frazier, a Tarbell Fellow at Lawfare, to analyze the interim final rule on AI diffusion announced by the Bureau of Industry and Security on January 13, 2025. This fourth-quarter effort by the Biden Administration to shape AI policy may have major ramifications on the global race for AI dominance. 

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In a live conversation on January 15, Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes spoke to Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien and Lawfare Senior Editors Anna Bower and Scott Anderson about the second day of confirmation hearings for President-elect Donald Trump’s cabinet. They discussed the hearings for Pam Bondi’s nomination to be attorney general, John Ratcliffe’s nomination to be CIA director, and Marco Rubio’s nomination to be secretary of state, and how collegial or contentious each hearing was.

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This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Roger Parloff, Renée DiResta, and Tyler McBrien to talk through the week’s big national security news, including:

• “The Art of the Heel.” As President-elect Donald Trump’s inauguration nears, the various legal cases against him are gradually winding down to their inevitable end. But Trump is not letting them go quietly: instead, he has fought certain final steps tooth and nail, ranging from the (mostly meaningless) sentencing in his New York case to the final release of the report that Special Counsel Jack Smith is obligated to write. How do these various threads seem like they will resolve? And what will the legacy be for presidential accountability?
• “Make Meta MAGA Again.” The recent election appears to be triggering a wave of changes in corporate America, as a number of leading tech companies like Meta have begun quite publicly breaking down disinformation protections, paring back DEI programs, and eliminating offices and personnel that have long peeved conservatives. And even CEOs who have not implemented such changes have seemed eager to meet with Trump at his home in Mar-a-Lago. How much of this shift is smoke and how much is fire? And what might it mean in the long term?
• “Embracing a Growth Mindset.” President-elect Trump sent shivers through the international community last week when he refused to rule out the possibility of using economic coercion or even military force to expand U.S. territorial control, specifically over Greenland and the Panama Canal, two allied foreign territories that he has previously identified as having a direct bearing on U.S. national interests. How realistic are his threats? And what are the ramifications likely to be?

In object lessons, Tyler shared why there seem to be so many Australians in Brooklyn, as reported in “Bogans in Brooklyn,” from The Baffler (say that three times fast). Roger recommended “V13: Chronicle of a Trial” by Emmanuel Carrère, for coverage of a different trial than the ones he's been used to. Scott, in a stubborn refusal to admit that the holidays are over, was jolly about the Netflix movie “That Christmas.” And Renée reflected on AI’s potential to help people reach consensus through democratic deliberation and supernotes.

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In a live conversation on January 14, Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes spoke to Lawfare Senior Editor Anna Bower about the confirmation hearing of Pete Hegseth by the Senate Armed Services committee on his expected nomination to be secretary of defense, the first confirmation hearing for one of President-elect Trump’s cabinet nominations in his second term.

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For today’s episode, Jennifer Gellie, the Chief of the Counterintelligence and Export Control Section ("CES") in the National Security Division of the U.S. Department of Justice, sits down with Lawfare Senior Editor and General Counsel Scott R. Anderson and Lawfare Contributing Editor and Morrison Foerster partner Brandon Van Grack to discuss new proposed regulations her office has issued for implementing the Foreign Agents Registration Act ("FARA"). 

They cover how the role of FARA has changed in recent decades, what the new regulations change and leave the same, and what the Justice Department's FARA-related priorities are likely to be in 2025. 

This episode is part of the “The Regulators” series, in which Brandon and Scott sit down with senior U.S. officials working at the front lines of U.S. national security and economic statecraft.

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In a live conversation on January 10, Lawfare Tarbell Fellow in Artificial Intelligence Kevin Frazier talked to Lawfare Senior Editor Alan Rozenshtein and Senior Staff Attorney at the Knight Institute Ramya Krishnan about the Supreme Court oral arguments over the legislation passed by Congress that bans TikTok unless its parent company ByteDance divests from the app, the arguments made by the different sides, and their predictions about how the Court might rule.

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This episode of “Lawfare Live: Trump’s Trials and Tribulations,” was recorded on January 10 in front of a live audience on YouTube and Zoom.

Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes spoke to Lawfare Senior Editors Anna Bower and Quinta Jurecic and Managing Editor Tyler McBrien about the sentencing of Donald Trump in the New York hush money case, what the prosecution, defense, and Justice Merchan said in court, and the litigation over the release of Special Counsel Jack Smith’s Final Report in the Jan. 6 and classified document prosecutions.

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From May 12, 2023: Earlier this year, Brian Fishman published a fantastic paper with Brookings thinking through how technology platforms grapple with terrorism and extremism, and how any reform to Section 230 must allow those platforms space to continue doing that work. That’s the short description, but the paper is really about so much more—about how the work of content moderation actually takes place, how contemporary analyses of the harms of social media fail to address the history of how platforms addressed Islamist terror, and how we should understand “the original sin of the internet.” 

For this episode of Arbiters of Truth, our occasional series on the information ecosystem, Lawfare Senior Editor Quinta Jurecic sat down to talk with Brian about his work. Brian is the cofounder of Cinder, a software platform for the kind of trust and safety work we describe here, and he was formerly a policy director at Meta, where he led the company’s work on dangerous individuals and organizations.

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Melissa Stewart, an Assistant Professor of Law at the University of Hawai'i at Mānoa’s William S. Richardson School of Law, joins Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien to discuss the International Court of Justice’s forthcoming advisory opinion on obligations of states in respect of climate change.

Stewart discusses how we got here, the unprecedented level of participation from states and international organizations in written submissions and oral proceedings, and the main arguments put forth during two weeks of those proceedings in December. She also speaks about how, “in the face of limited jurisdictional pathways to pursue direct accountability against the states most responsible for climate change, states are pursuing creative solutions to seek progress before international courts and tribunals”—a phenomenon she coined “jurisdictional ingenuity” in a forthcoming book chapter.

Mentioned in this episode:

“The ICJ’s Advisory Opinion on Climate Change: A Data Analysis of Participants’ Submissions,” by Thomas Burri

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Jack Goldsmith sits down with Orin Kerr, a Professor at Stanford Law School, to discuss his new book, “The Digital Fourth Amendment: Privacy and Policing in Our Online World.” They talk about how Kerr became interested in these issues, the history and physicality assumptions of the Fourth Amendment, and how and why the digital world is different. They also discuss how the courts are interpreting the Fourth Amendment in a digital age, as well as Kerr’s Equilibrium-Adjustment Theory, the core theory of the book.

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This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Molly Reynolds and Kevin Frazier to discuss the week’s big national security news, including:

• “Mike Drop (Almost).” While we are still two weeks away from having a new president, the 119th Congress is already underway. But there are signs of tension in the Republican majority controlling both chambers, with House Republicans (under pressure from former President Trump and adviser Elon Musk) having killed a leadership-negotiated compromise funding bill at the end of the last Congress and Speaker Mike Johnson just barely securing reelection by a single vote after some last minute wrangling within the Republican caucus. What do these recent events tell us about what we should expect over the next year?
• “Will Be Mild.” The Jan. 6 that passed earlier this week went very differently than the one four years ago, with Congress peacefully recognizing former President Trump’s election back to the White House. How are the legacies of the Jan. 6 insurrection of 2021 winding to a close in 2025? And which seem likely to persist?
• “Missed Connections.” Finland received an unwelcome Christmas present this year, after a major undersea telecommunications cable was damaged by the anchor of a suspected Russian shadow ship, in an act some believe was deliberate. And Taiwan rang in the New Year in similar fashion, with a major undersea cable getting damaged by a China-associated vessel. What is behind this set of attacks? And what tools do the affected states have to defend themselves?

In object lessons, Molly shared an excellent holiday tradition to keep in your back pocket for next year and all the years to come: a family time capsule. Scott shared his newly perfected cocktail recipe, a concoction he is calling the Little Palermo™ (see below). And Kevin went a bit darker with his recommendation of “End Times,” by Peter Turchin.

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The Little Palermo™ by Scott R. Anderson

1 oz. brandy

1 oz. cold brew concentrate

3/4 oz. Mr. Black coffee liqueur

3/4 oz. Averna

1/4 oz. rich demerara syrup

2 dashes chicory bitters

Shake vigorously over ice, double strain into a glass, express lemon oil over the top.

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Lawfare Senior Editor Eugenia Lostri sat down with Winnona DeSombre Bernsen, nonresident fellow at the Atlantic Council and founder of the hacker conference DistrictCon, and Nina Alli, Executive Director of the Biohacking Village, to talk about their recent report, “It Takes a Village: Spotlighting Practitioner Driven-Cybersecurity Successes and Future Opportunities.” The report collects the insights of seven cybersecurity villages and outlines the value they can bring to security research and how policymakers can benefit from engaging with them.

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Jessica Pishko, an independent journalist and lawyer who writes about the criminal legal system with a focus on the political power of law enforcement officials, joins Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien to discuss her new book, “The Highest Law in the Land: How the Unchecked Power of Sheriffs Threatens Democracy.”

Pishko discussed the roots of the constitutional sheriffs movement, broke down several myths and realities of the office, and explained the immense appeal sheriffs have for the far-right.

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On today’s podcast, Lawfare Senior Editor and Brookings Senior Fellow Molly Reynolds is joined by Quinta Jurecic, a Fellow at Brookings and Senior Editor at Lawfare, and Ryan Reilly, Justice Reporter at NBC News, to discuss a long-awaited report on Jan. 6 from the Department of Justice’s Inspector General, as well as a new report from House Republicans focusing on the pipe bombs planted outside the Democratic and Republican National Committees as part of the violence that day. They explore what the reports do—and do not—cover, how they fit in with other investigative work on the insurrection, and what the overall landscape of accountability looks like on the precipice of President Trump’s return to office.

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From January 5, 2023: It was a few months ago that something went boom under the sea and the Nord Stream 2 pipelines were severely damaged. Everyone assumed the perpetrator was the Russian Federation because of the Russian Federation’s war in Ukraine, and because the pipeline carried natural gas from Russia to Europe. But, months have gone by and evidence that Russia was behind the Nord Stream attacks has not surfaced.

This was the subject of a lengthy article in the Washington Post, the lead author of which was Shane Harris. Lawfare editor-in-chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Shane to discuss the article, what we know about the Nord Stream attacks, and what we know about who could be behind them.

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From April 8, 2022: Last week on Lawfare Live, Jacob Schulz sat down with Andrew Mines, a research fellow at George Washington University’s Program on Extremism. Mines helps lead the Program on Extremism's efforts to keep track of criminal charges resulting from the Jan. 6 Capitol Hill siege. They talked about the U.S military’s efforts to counter extremism within its ranks. Mines is the recent author of a Lawfare piece on the subject, and they talked through the history of the problem, the history of Defense Department efforts to fix it and where the department is still coming up short.

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On today's podcast, Lawfare Executive Editor Natalie Orpett is joined by Brian Hoxie to get an update on the Uyghur Forced Labor Protection Act (UFLPA). The legislation was passed in 2021 in response to reports that the Chinese government was committing major human rights abuses against its Uyghur population, including disappearances and forced labor. Three years later, where do things stand?

Hoxie is the director of the Forced Labor Division at U.S. Customs and Border Protection's Office of Trade, which is the office charged with enforcing the law. He explained what the law does, how it's implemented on the ground, and what the U.S. government is doing to combat forced labor.

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