Aggressively Human: Online Business in the Age of AI, Algorithms & Automations
In a world focused on more: more content, more followers, more marketing, more scale, more noise… we’re facing less trust, less contact, less reach.
We’re drowning in AI-generated slop, being pitch-slapped by “personalized” email funnels that couldn’t be farther from authentic, and struggling to be seen by a pay-to-play algorithm.
It’s never been easier to create and connect more cheaply and at more scale, with less trust and more skepticism.
But for experts and service-based businesses? We’re seeing the pendulum swing back.
The answer isn’t to play by these trends. It’s to be **aggressively human.**
aggressivelyhuman.substack.com
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Evidence of Humanity: Showcasing our latest thinking
This week, we're doing something a little different. Instead of our usual dialogue, we’re sharing two short solo segments originally recorded for the Evidence of Humanity audio summit, hosted by Michelle Pontvert. This means we get a break from recording and editing but you still get a fresh episode. While because as Meg says, “Jessica loves a cadence”, taking breaks and thoughtful repurposing of content lets us take breaks and be aggressively human!
First, Jessica shares how running free monthly workshops—starting with just four people—has become one of the most grounding, trust-building practices in her business. Not because they’re optimized for conversion, but because they create real-time space to test ideas, teach generously, and build actual relationships.
Then, Meg takes the mic to talk about the surprising overlap between SEO strategy and romance novels. Drawing from her writing practice and deep love of story, she maps the early stages of the hero’s journey onto the buyer journey—and shows how thoughtful content meets people where they are, not where your funnel wants them to be.
Let us know: do you like some shorter, solo episodes in your feed?
We’ll be back next week with more dialogue!
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"Feminist Rants Are My Superpower": Intersectional Leadership with Becky Mollenkamp
How do we build businesses and community inside a broken system—without replicating that system in our own work?
By leading through an intersectional, feminist, and collective lens.
In this episode, we talk with Becky Mollenkamp about what it means to build and lead this way: grounded in shared power, mutual care, and collective growth. Becky shares how her work as a coach and podcaster has evolved over the years, why she’s no longer trying to “go it alone,” and how building in community has been the most liberating move of all. We also talk about what it really means to earn money ethically, challenge systems without burning out, and keep showing up (even in the chaos of summer).
We also get into the behind-the-scenes of launching multiple podcasts, navigating Substack and social media with ethics intact, and the real tension of building a business when you care deeply about people and want to pay your bills without selling your soul.
This is a conversation for anyone trying to build something different in a world that rewards “the one right way to build.”
* How Becky’s proximity to the Ferguson uprising catalyzed a shift in her perspective
* The real difference between commerce and capitalism (and why most pricing models get this wrong)
* What it means to build a business rooted in mutuality, not hierarchy
* What the hell to do with Substack, Meta, and other imperfect tools
* The behind-the-scenes of stewarding multiple podcasts, and the choice to have a co-host or not
* The problem with trying to do it all alone—and how Becky’s moving toward collective action over solo growth
* Why podcasting might just be the most human way to have the conversations we actually want to have
“Yeah, I can come up with lots of ideas, but they're always richer when it's done in collective with these other women who have different lived experiences than me. And then, yeah, I'll move the ball forward. I love moving the ball forward, but I'm more excited now. I'm moving the ball forward with these ideas that are so much more richer.” - Becky
About our Guest
Feminist Podcasters Collective
Mentioned Resources
Sacred Economics by Charles Eisenstein
The Soul of Money by Lynne Twist
“The Master’s Tools Will Never Dismantle the Master’s House” — Audre Lorde
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Connect with Meg and Jessica
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com
ADHD-ish: Building a business for how your brain is wired with Diann Wingert
Most business advice assumes you're wired like everyone else. What if you're not?
In this episode, we sit down with Diann Wingert—former therapist, business coach, and host of the ADHD-ish podcast—to talk about what it really means to build a business that works with your brain, not against it.
We unpack the myths around ADHD, how to radically accept your own wiring, and what happens when you finally stop trying to “fix” yourself and start designing systems that fit you.
Jessica and Meg share their own neurodiverse workarounds (including why their assistants actually manage them), and Diann breaks down how she flipped her brand, rethought her support systems, and uses tools like Claude.ai as external executive function—not a replacement for her brain, but a co-pilot for organizing all the genius.
This one’s for the quirky kids, the not-quite-diagnosed, and anyone who’s ever tried to follow business advice that wasn't designed for their brain.
* Why Diann rebranded her podcast and business to center ADHD-ish, not as a niche but as a reality
* How radical self-acceptance (not self-awareness) is the real first step to change
* The business systems that work because they’re nontraditional (like letting your assistant be the boss)
* Why “It depends” is the real ADHD business motto
* How tools like Claude and Notion help organize brilliance without replacing your voice
* Why standard business advice falls apart when your brain doesn't fit the mold
* What Diann learned from neurodivergent-friendly spaces (hello, marching band at a conference) and how to bring that into your own business model
* The role of AI in organizing, not empathizing—and why therapy still needs a human touch
“Human beings, by and large, are damaged through relationships, abuse, neglect, trauma. Most of the things that bring people to a therapist happened as a result of some failure of human nature. And so the whole transformation of therapy is that it is using the professional use of self. We are harmed by humans. We are healed by humans. It’s one of the most intimate and powerful ways of working. And I loved it.” - Diann
About Our Guest
Mastering Your Entrepreneurial ADHD
Diann Wingert’s LinkedIn Newsletter
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Connect with Meg and Jessica
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com
Staying Solo: Staying true to yourself, your values, and your voice with Maggie Patterson
What does it really mean to “stay solo” in a world that won’t stop telling you to scale? That’s the question we explore with Maggie Patterson, whose new book Staying Solo challenges the endless drumbeat of “bigger is better.”
In this episode, we dive into Maggie’s journey from agency owner to solo business advocate, the messy parts of writing (and marketing) a book without turning it into a performative launch, and the very real tension between wanting to build a sustainable business—while feeling pressure to do it in a way that exploits your time or other people’s labor. (Thanks, online business influencers).
We also talk about typos in print books, sticker packs as marketing tools, and why self-publishing may outperform traditional publishing as a soloist. Whether you’re a solopreneur, a micro-agency owner, or just someone wondering if you have to scale to be legit, Maggie’s perspective offers a breath of fresh air—and a permission slip to do it your way.
* Why Staying Solo matters—especially when the default advice is always to “scale”
* The tension between running an agency and telling others not to build one
* How Maggie’s book journey came out of years of blog posts and a poolside conversation
* The ethics of pricing, paying others well, and not replicating exploitative business practices
* The weird relief (and panic) of finding typos in a printed book you can’t easily fix
* How to stay human while promoting a book (sticker packs, handwritten notes, book tours)
* Book marketing vs. book selling—why Maggie chose self-publishing and what surprised her most
* The privilege of staying solo—and how to be clear about who you want to serve
* Most importantly, the 5 book names for Maggie’s book themed birdhouse.
About our Guest
Connect with Us
Connect with Meg and Jessica
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com
Framework-Free Zone: Life Updates, AI, and A Little Fun
In this riffy, delightfully unstructured episode, Jessica and Meg ditch the outlines, frameworks, and “polished” content in favor of a real-life check-in, some AI trivia, and a sneak peek at Jessica’s summer program, Relationship Rhythms.
We talk about how building relationships is about more than just dropping into people’s inboxes—and how Relationship Rhythms is designed to bring playfulness (and prizes!) back into the process. Jessica shares why she’s finally running an asynchronous offer and how Relationship Rhythms is different from her usual programs, plus what happens when you go from dreaming to launching.
We also get real about our own partnership: the messy business of joint ventures, what happens when your business is in a different gear than your friend’s, and how to talk about money and collaboration in a way that feels human.
And because she couldn’t resist, Meg quizzes Jessica on AI trivia—highlighting the joys, the contradictions, and the occasional panic about what AI knows, what it doesn’t, and how we’re using (and refusing) it in our own businesses.
If you’ve ever felt like your business friendships are an ever-evolving dance—or wondered how to balance AI curiosity with human connections—listen in. 🍊
PS. If you made it to the end of this episode, drop our Easter Egg word on Substack as a comment to let us know you’re here for the rambles, not just the frameworks.
* Jessica’s summer program, Relationship Rhythms, and how it’s ushering in a more experimental vibe.
* How Relationship Rhythms uses gamified accountability (yes, with prizes) to make relationship building fun
* Why Jessica and Meg decided not to monetize the Substack—yet—and the honest convo about splitting podcast revenue
* The challenges of co-hosting a podcast when your businesses are in different seasons (and speeds)
* The messy beauty of relationship building: why some outreach grows instantly while others marinate for months
* Meg’s AI trivia quiz: from radiologists to Reddit, from ChatGPT’s energy usage to recipes with random ground beef
* Why learning how to learn will still be a critical skill, no matter about AI’s capabilities
Join Relationship Rhythms
Sign up for the waitlist or join the program (opens June 9).
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This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com
Make a Scene and Embrace Your Stories with Mike Ganino
Have you ever sat through a slide deck that felt like death-by-bullet-point? Or tried to sound like a LinkedIn thought leader only to bore yourself?
Have you ever struggled to consider yourself “interesting” when you haven’t gone to space or climbed a mountain?
Most importantly, how can you tell a story that AI cannot replace?
Story coach and speaker whisperer Mike Ganino joins us to talk about how to actually connect with other humans through storytelling, public speaking, and intentional presence. We talk about what’s missing when AI writes your copy, how to make your keynote more than just a case study, and why the most aggressively human thing you can do is show up—with your voice, your weirdness, and your body and breath. We talk about what job AI can’t do, why “tell your story” is often the worst advice, and how the most impactful stories usually come from Tuesdays, not TED Talks.
* How to pull stories from your actual life (even if they happened on a random Tuesday)
* What ChatGPT can and can’t do—and why public speaking is still a human-only activity
* Breaking free from the drip of consumption and embracing the interiority within us and around us.
* How to find your “inner interesting”, and how to transform extraordinary tales into relatable, personable stories.
* Why “tell your story” is terrible advice—and what to do instead
* How book marketing breaks your nervous system and what our favorite GIFs reveal about us
About our Guest:
Make A Scene: Storytelling, Stage Presence, and The Art of Being Unforgettable in Every Spotlight
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This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com
Friendship isn't a KPI with Kat Vellos
“And a lot of people say, oh gosh, you know, friendship is so hard because everybody's so busy. I'm so busy, our schedules don't align. Therefore, “friendship is hard”. And I'm like, are you sure about that?
Or is it actually that scheduling with busy calendars is hard. Prioritization is hard. Saying no to things so that you can say yes to the things you actually want to say yes to is hard. Those things are hard. But those things aren't friendship and those things are a part of every other part of life as well.” - Kat
Friendship doesn’t happen by accident in adulthood. And despite what the internet says, it’s not just about “finding your people.” You have to actually do something—and that can feel impossibly hard when your calendar is full and your energy’s shot.
In this episode, Jessica and Meg talk with Kat Vellos—UX designer turned friendship expert—about how adult friendships form, why they fizzle, and what gets in the way. We talk about courage (yes, it still matters), frequency, and how friendship isn’t a productivity project—it’s a relationship. We also touch on the uncomfortable truth: as AI creeps further into our inboxes and interactions, it’s easier than ever to think we’re connected—without actually having any real closeness at all.
If you’ve ever said, “I want more friends, but…”—this one’s for you.
* Why building adult friendship isn’t harder—it just requires different skills
* The four foundations of real friendship: compatibility, proximity, frequency, and commitment
* What’s actually hard about making friends (spoiler: it’s courage, not conversation)
* The social cost of optimizing everything—including how we spend time with people
* Why “being too busy” is often a boundary issue in disguise
* How Jessica tries to find local friends who want to talk about cold outreach (and the real dilemma of niche interests + neighborhood proximity)
* The difference between a friendship activity and a productivity checklist
* How to start small, go first, and create connection without waiting for an invite
About our Guest
Kat Vellos is the go-to source for guidance about cultivating meaningful friendships and community. She’s author of the book, We Should Get Together: The Secret to Cultivating Better Friendships. Kat’s writing is read in over 100 countries, and she’s been interviewed by The New York Times, NPR, and many more.
What if friendship is easier than you think?
Make yourself a Friendship Joy Train
How to find real friendships online via the algorithm
Product: BFF Builder Bundle
Course: Unbusy Camp
Course: Platonic Action Lab
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This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com
Cold Outreach Doesn’t Have to Suck with Jess Lorimer
“If you want a sales pipeline, you are responsible for creating it. What we've been told and what we see online is the kind of constant content creation that is designed to bring you clients…so that you can essentially do a lot of marketing to avoid ever having the sales conversation.
But the quickest way to make a sale though is to get to that sales conversation as soon as you can and to make sure that it's as qualified as possible."
Most of us have been on the receiving end of a terrible cold pitch. Maybe it was a LinkedIn DM pretending to be friendly. Maybe it was an email that made you feel like a number. No surprise—cold outreach has earned its bad reputation.
But the truth is: cold outreach isn’t inherently bad. It’s just rarely done well.
In this episode of Aggressively Human, we’re joined by sales strategist Jessica Lorimer, who got her start in the kind of sales that makes people sweat: actual phone calls, to actual humans, in actual corporate offices. We talk about what it looks like to sell in a way that’s clear, kind, and effective—without relying on funnels, fake rapport, or endless social media content. She breaks down what still works, what definitely doesn’t, and how to sell in a way that’s honest, respectful, and doesn’t make you feel like a spammer.
This episode is part strategy, part sales therapy, and part reminder that you’re allowed to enjoy sales.
* Jessica’s origin story: how she sold her way into a boardroom (without a formal invite)
* How “being good at sales” actually made Jess feel in the early days of running an online business, and why she shifted from B2C to B2B sales
* Why Jess and Meg have both gotten rid of their funnels
* The five-step B2B sales framework Jess uses with her corporate clients (and why it works for soloists too)
* Why “I sent 10 emails and no one replied” isn’t a valid reason to give up
* What you actually need in a cold message (spoiler: not a fake compliment or a pitch)
* Why it’s not about “convincing” someone to buy—it’s about showing them it’s worth a conversation
* And why selling isn’t about tricking anyone—it’s about being clear, useful, and brave enough to go first
About our Guest
Selling to Corporate Podcast - a bi-weekly favorite of Jessica Lackey’s!
From Cold to Closed - open through May 18!
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This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com
Silly rabbit, Play *isn't* just for kids
In this episode, we’re talking about play.
Hear us riff on the power of play and personality in our lives and businesses. We explore our different expressions of play as children and how it impacts our businesses today (hint: Meg was a dancer and playwright and Jessica loved to tinker with her Erector sets and handwoven crafts. Totally on brand for both of us). We talk we both experiment in our businesses (once we have the foundations in place), including our plans for the summer. We look at play as a regenerative act: one that requires energy and action, but that gives it back to us.
And most importantly, you get:
* To hear Jessica’s play theme music (at 55:00)
* To let us know if you want a Center Stage watch along (because as a millennial creative woman I’m shocked Meg hasn’t seen this seminal film of my 20s!)
* To see Jessica literally dancing on a hillside in Switzerland in 2007, because the hills were alive with the sound of music. (only on Substack, so come hang with us there)
In today’s episode
* Why play isn’t about escape—it’s about energy, iteration, and identity
* How we infuse our personal styles into our personal brands
* All of the things Meg has learned from the Museum of Play
* What our personal play styles reveal about how we lead, build, and rest
* Why we don’t play enough in our businesses
* Jessica and Meg’s various types of play (and even what we consider play)
* Center Stage and what it gets right about discipline, talent, and letting go
* How we’re experimenting in public: podcast shifts, newsletter redesigns, and more
* Why constraint is the secret to playful business design
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This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com
Pick Up the Damn Phone: Max Traylor on Selling like a Human
Automation. Funnels. AI-generated content. Scale at all costs. New leads.
You’ve been sold a load of garbage about what it takes to grow a business today. And in this episode of Aggressively Human, we’re getting back to the truth about sales.
Max Traylor—agency churn physician and LinkedIn truth-teller—joins us to break down why so much of what passes for “sales strategy” today was never actually working. (It just didn’t matter when money was cheap.)
We talk about how most of us have never learned (or needed to learn) real sales skills, why AI and automation are actually doing you a favor by making real humans stand out, and why your best sales strategy is still a damn phone call.
We also dive into what real client expansion looks like, how to expand your existing relationships (hint: the word you’ll stop using is “done”), and how agency owners and soloists can rebuild around human relationships instead of implementing software and tools that take us farther away from connections in search of "scale".
* The sales myths we’ve been sold by venture-backed tech startups
* The difference between "participating in a buying process" and actually selling
* The missed opportunity of existing clients and why client expansion is the sales strategy no one talks about
* How to start expanding your engagement from day one
* Why quarterly business reviews aren’t admin—they're about getting invited to the adult table
* How bad automation is making it easier for real humans to stand out
* Why we need to become indispensable partners—and how do we do that
* The sales "crisis" that was never new—it just used to be easier to hide bad sales processes when the market was hot
* Max’s philosophy on LinkedIn: do it for yourself, not for the likes—and why IP creation > audience chasing
About our Guest
Max Traylor: LinkedIn, Website
1,000 Routes with Nick Bennett Podcast Appearance
Resources Mentioned
Becoming an Indispensable Partner featuring Steve Lishansky (Beers with Max podcast)
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Connect with Meg and Jessica
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com
The Case For Curation before Creation
“Nickelback had the last big rock song of our generation because songs just aren't counted the same way. So I feel like this is actually a fairly good example of: what is popular is Nickelback, but it's not the best music. It's not the critically acclaimed music. This is what gets played on the radio because it can be played while you're barbecuing and it's non-offensive.
And that's what AI-curated content is, it's the Nickelback of content.” - Meg
There’s a lot of pressure in online business to be original. To create something new. To be the thought leader with the freshest take. But much of what passes for “thought leadership” online is just recycled content, AI regurgitation, or the same tired takes with slightly different branding.
In this philosophy episode of Aggressively Human, we make the case for starting with curation, not creation, to avoid flat, forgettable content where we’re simply competing through the volume of our ideas (h/t Jay Acunzo).
We explore what it really means to be a thoughtful curator, how building taste builds your expertise, and why citing your sources doesn’t make you less of a thought leader but actually strengthens your positioning. We talk about what it actually means to curate well, why human curiosity is the root of all curation, the messy process of composting ideas, and how to make time—and intention—for escaping the algorithmically-driven echo chamber of ideas.
Plus hear us develop (in real time!) the five-step framework for becoming a trusted creator, why your “whisper of discontent” might be your next learning quest, and what it looks like to embrace your expertise without pretending to know it all.
If you’re tired of thought leaders who have more LinkedIn carousels than actual ideas, this episode is an invitation to reconsider curation as an integral pillar.
* Why consumption must come before curation—and why curiosity comes before both
* How to develop taste by reading, listening, and observing widely
* Our 5-stage content development process
* The difference between AI curation and human curation (and why AI flattens nuance)
* How “whispers of discontent” can guide your next learning quest
* Why citation is essential to expert thought leadership
* Curation as care: how to refer, recommend, and connect as a value-add to your ecosystem
* Why your best business moves might come from knowing the right referrals—not from knowing it all yourself
There's value in saying, “Here's a list of the different software that I've tried, but here's the best project management tool for this circumstance and for this circumstance and for this circumstance.” And there's an expertise in being able to help people strategize what the best choice is for them based on.
Your lived experience, your client experience: don't work with this person, work with this person. Don't read this book, read this book. I think that that's a huge part of what you and I do, especially in group coaching programs where we're able to say in real time, “Oh, because you are running this type of business, you should be running this type of marketing strategy, or you should have this sort of accounting practice in place.” - Meg
Prior Episodes Mentioned:
Resources:
* James Clear – cited the Helsinki Bus Theory (not the Stockholm Bus Theory!)
* Jay Acunzo – idea of “don’t be the best, be their favorite”
* Ira Glass – inspiration for early content creation and taste development
* Rob Harvilla – host of 60 Songs That Explain the '90s, used as a curation example
* Chris Guillebeau – founder of World Domination Summit, mentioned by Jessica
* Dani Gardner – coined “whisper of discontent,” mentioned from her book Quiet Marketing
* Lacy Boggs – mentioned for her conversation on what defines thought leadership
* Malcolm Gladwell – concept of “mavens” from The Tipping Point
* Kate Raworth – author of Doughnut Economics
* Rebecca Henderson - Reimagining Capitalism in a World on Fire
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This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com
Owning Your Work in the Age of AI: Intellectual Property with Erin Austin
In the age of AI-generated content, content repurposing, and ideas being “created” with a screenshot of your site, the question of ownership is more urgent than ever:
How do you protect what you’ve created when so much of what you’re creating lives online?
In this episode of Aggressively Human, we’re joined by Erin Austin, founder of Think Beyond IP, to dig into what intellectual property really is, what you can protect, and how to turn your expertise into an asset—not just a deliverable.
If you’ve been asking, “How do I protect my ideas?”—this is the episode for you.
* What counts as intellectual property under U.S. law (and what doesn’t)
* The difference between copyright, trademark, patent, and trade secret
* “But what if someone steals my stuff?”
* The moment a copyright becomes enforceable (and how to register it)
* What happens when you use AI to write, create, or ideate (and what that means for copyright)
* Why most service providers accidentally give away their IP in contracts, and how to fix it
* When and how to cite your sources ethically (even when it’s not legally required)
* How IP turns your expertise into leverage, whether you're licensing, scaling, or stepping out of the room
About our Guest
Want to be the first to know when the next Masterclass cohort opens? Join the Priority Access List to receive early notifications and secure your spot before public enrollment opens. The paid masterclass is a three-session live training designed for experts with corporate clients who want to harness AI confidently—without legal headaches. Space is limited to ensure a premium, high-value, small-group experience so you get in depth, practical tools and expert legal guidance.
Other Resources
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This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com
What's "enough" for you? Exploring the Zone of Enoughness
More money. More growth. More scale. It’s not enough to be a six-figure business, you have to be a “seven-fig mentor” and even a billion-dollar creator. The online business world feeds us a constant stream of messages about needing to do more, earn more, and be more.
But what if you don’t want a million-dollar business? What if you want a smaller business that’s satisfying?
In this episode, co-host Jessica shares her framework for the “Zone of Enoughness”—a way to reimagine business growth not as endless expansion, but as aligned sustainability. Jessica and Meg talk about letting go of business models that don't fit, the very real trade-offs of growth, and why sufficiency might be more radical than abundance.
* Why “abundance” is still about chasing more—and how “sufficiency” offers a different way to feel at peace with your business.
* Jessica’s four-part Enoughness framework: money, time, flexibility, and creative autonomy.
* Why your business might look successful but still feel misaligned.
* The internal (and household-level) work of defining your minimums and maximums.
* Why responsibilities to your clients, team, and community shape your Enoughness Zone.
* How Jessica’s corporate background shaped her hustle—and how she’s learning to unwind it.
* What happens when your business hits its revenue high point and you still feel burned out.
* Why “seasonal” Enoughness matters: how your priorities shift over time (and why that’s OK).
* The emotional and energetic costs of infinite growth—and why rest is critical.
Resources Mentioned
Kate Holly’s The Space Beyond Scarce
Robin Wall Kimmerer: Braiding Sweetgrass, The Serviceberry
Staying Solo by Maggie Patterson
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This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com
Stay or go? Social media, compromise, and contradictions with Illana Burk
Should we stay or should we go?
Leaving social media has been an increasingly popular choice in the past few years. But is leaving always the most impactful choice?
In this episode, we sit down with Illana Burk, business coach and advocate for human-first business, to talk about the messy middle of visibility, values, and doing business inside systems you didn’t build.
Illana shares why she’s choosing to stay on social media; not because she’s ignoring the harm, but because of how social media is an important place our voices can be heard.
We unpack the compromises and contradictions that come with trying to do business ethically in a digital world—where every platform is flawed, no choice is pure, and the desire to get it “right” can quietly become a trap. Illana offers a grounded, generous perspective on what it means to market with integrity and show up with care.
* Why “just leaving” social media isn’t always the impactful move (and who wins if we do)
* The difference between marketing, community, connection, and consumption—and how social media serves each differently
* Why nuance, dialogue, and moral compromise are necessary parts of human business
* Why being ethical in business doesn't mean doing it perfectly, and what that actually looks like in practice
* Why presence—not performance—might be the best use of platforms in 2025
* The value of showing up in systems you don’t fully endorse, and how to do so with intention
About our Guest
https://illanaburk.substack.com/p/i-dont-really-love-social-media-but
Resources Mentioned
Re-imagining Online Business | Brooke Monaghan & Tristan Katz
The Digital Watercooler is Gone | Amanda Natividad
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This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com
The myth of "set it and forget it": The realities of launching with Dusti Arab
You have the right offer. The right audience. A launch plan you’ve run before. So why… isn’t it working?
This week, we go behind the scenes of a real launch with Dusti Arab, founder of Referral Worthy and longtime marketing strategist, to talk about what happens when a launch starts strong—and then doesn’t go to plan. Dusti walks us through what she planned for her latest launch, what actually happened, and how she adapted in real time by listening to her audience, adjusting her messaging, and staying rooted in what actually matters: relationships and referrals.
* Why Dusti built Referral Worthy for small business owners stuck in the feast-or-famine cycle
* What worked—and what didn’t—in her recent launch (plus what she’d do differently next time)
* How she used affiliate marketing to fill her challenge (and why it outperformed social)
* The realities of evergreen offers and how to make them successful
* The tradeoffs of free vs. paid launch events—and how to pick the right one for your goals
* How to serve different tiers of clients without burning out or diluting your offers
* Why thought leadership needs to come before a big launch
* The difference between a launch that flops and a launch that feeds your business in other ways
About our Guest
Resources Mentioned
Connect with Us
Substack: https://aggressivelyhuman.substack.com/
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com
The Requirements for Real Community with April MacLean
Real community isn’t just a forum full of brand users—it’s something deeper, more intentional, and, if done wrong, more likely to fail. So what does it actually take to build a community that works, one that people want to return to again and again? And more importantly, should you even be building one at all?
April MacLean joins Aggressively Human to break down what real community building looks like in 2025.
* Why most business communities fail (and why just starting a Facebook group won’t cut it).
* What must be present in a business before trying to build community.
* The three essential conditions that define a real community.
* The difference between a support forum and a true community (and why most businesses confuse the two).
* What happens when community managers abdicate leadership instead of shaping the space.
* Why exclusivity creates stronger connections—and how to keep your community from turning into a ghost town.
* The importance of rituals and rhythms that keep members engaged over time.
If you’ve been struggling to make your community thrive—or wondering if you should even start one—this episode is a must-listen.
About our Guest
How to People Newsletter: Where sharp eyes meet sharp wit: A weekly look at customer experience through a very human lens.
Connect with Us
Connect with Meg and Jessica
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com
Cut out the (Meta) Middleman: Creator-Led Newsletter Growth with Dylan Redekop
No matter your relationship with social media and Big Tech… you can’t argue that it’s become more saturated, more based on the algorithm (bye bye followers, hello “for you” feed), and more “pay-to-play”. So, you decide to focus on your newsletter and stop building on rented land. But in order to grow, you’re told to give even more money to the platforms for ads, or spend time every day posting and engaging - ultimately paying with your attention.
What if there was another way to grow your newsletter, without relying on social media or paying high rates for ads to Meta, Google, or Microsoft/LinkedIn? What if you could put that money into the hands of fellow creators - and end up with a more aligned audience?
Dylan Redekop joins Aggressively Human to break down sustainable, ethical, and cost-effective ways to grow your newsletter—without handing money to Big Tech.
Dylan, a newsletter strategist and creator of Growth Currency, shares how he grew his newsletter, landed sponsorship deals, and helps other newsletter operators grow (in concert with Chenell Basilio) without relying on social media. We dive into cross-promotions, creator sponsorships, paid recommendations, and other overlooked strategies that help you grow an engaged audience by directly connecting with and investing in other creators.
If you’ve been struggling to expand your newsletter without relying on algorithms or expensive ads, today’s episode is a must-listen.
* Why newsletters and email marketing are not the same thing (and why it matters for your strategy).
* How to grow your newsletter without social media or Meta ads (including free and paid tactics).
* The right way to collaborate with other creators through cross-promotions, guest features, and swaps.
* The "hidden" world of creator sponsorships—how to sell and buy newsletter sponsorships the smart way.
* What not to do when growing a newsletter (and why some cross-promos kill audience trust).
* The truth about paid recommendations (how they work, who gets paid, and whether they’re worth it).
* How to use AI and automation to enhance your newsletter without losing your voice.
“This is the most meta thing. So you're having to do marketing to get your paid recommendation placed on other people's recommendations widget. Instead, this could be how it works: “Hey, I like you and I have the same audience. I will pay you if you put me as your paid widget.” - Jessica
Missed our last episode about consent- and agency-based newsletter practices?
Listen to our last episode about Email Automation with Heart with Bev Feldman:
About our Guest
Chenell Basilio’s Growth in Reverse Newsletter
Growth in Reverse YouTube, co-hosted by Chenell and Dylan
Growth in Reverse Community (say hi, Jessica is there!)
Post: How To Grow Your Newsletter without Social Media
Resources Mentioned
Craft and Commerce (Kit Conference, Boise ID)
Jordan Gill - Systems Saved Me podcast
Justin Moore - Sponsor Magnet book
Connect with Us
Connect with Meg and Jessica
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com
Beyond "Not Spam": Heart-Centered Email Marketing with Bev Feldman
Email automation specialist and Kit Ambassador Bev Feldman believes that we can use email marketing software as a way to build relationships while giving your subscribers agency over their inbox experience.
There are the illegal “no-nos”: the most egregious email practices that make us want to throw away our phones or hit the spam button. There are the morally gray areas of more manipulative email marketing, or just even a sub-par experience.
But in an aggressively human fashion, we can actually not just maintain but enhance our relationship with subscribers by incorporating consent-based practices like landing page customization, email customization, opt-outs, pauses, and segmentation.
In today’s episode, we explore the ways automation with heart can improve the relationship with your email list:
* The 7 deadly sins of email marketing (and why they’re costing you trust and engagement).
* How to define what email marketing tactics are aligned with your values.
* Why clear expectations in your welcome sequence are so important to set the tone with new subscribers, especially if they are joining from summits, bundles, or recommendations.
* How giving subscribers more choice actually makes your emails more effective.
* The consent-based practices that engage your subscribers in a deeper conversation.
* Why your best content is getting lost—and how to make sure new subscribers see it.
* How to use auto-responders to set boundaries, protect your time, and even generate revenue.
Missed our episode with Jeremy about his welcome sequence?
Get that here: https://aggressivelyhuman.substack.com/p/13-depth-as-a-feature-not-a-bug
“I am really big on being intentional and values aligned with how we do things. So, whereas I might have certain ways that I want to show up and certain tactics I don't feel good doing, that's not to say that they're wrong, off the table, and you shouldn't do them.
But if something doesn't feel good to you as a recipient, just because it's “best practices” doesn't mean that you should do it in spite of what your gut is telling you. I think really follow what feels good or doesn't feel good to you.” - Bev Feldman
About our Guest
Automate with Heart Newsletter
Additional Resources
Tad Hargrave’s Marketing for Hippies
Connect with Us
https://aggressivelyhuman.substack.com/
Connect with Meg and Jessica
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com
Escaping Default Decisions: Designing a Calmer Business with Susan Boles
In the constant push for growth, productivity, and squeezing every ounce of output from our businesses, we rarely stop to ask: What if the goal isn’t to do more? What if it’s to create more space?
Operating at 150% capacity might feel like the norm, but that’s only because we’re operating with what Susan Boles calls “default decisions.” Instead, what if we focused on building businesses with margin. Yes financial margins, but going beyond those margins to include emotional and energetic margins?
“When you broaden your definition of margins, it gives your business a lot of expansiveness.” - Susan
Susan Boles, founder of Beyond Margins, helps business owners create sustainable, human-centered businesses that prioritize calm over chaos. Susan’s approach isn’t about sacrificing profit for peace—it’s about designing a business that works for you, not the other way around. She believes businesses should function at 50% capacity, so when the inevitable chaos hits, you’ve got the space to handle it.
In today’s episode, Susan shares how to create breathing room in your business, build systems that serve humans first, and let go of default decisions that lead to burnout. We talk about how Susan had to unlearn urgency, build in rest, and operate at odds of the default expectations of building a business.
In today’s episode, hear us dive into a calmer business:
* Why building margin into your business is essential and how it helps you weather inevitable chaos.
* The "puppy dog" approach to building your business network (and why curiosity and friendliness go further than you think).
* The difference between financial, emotional, and energetic margin, and how to build all three.
* How Susan’s “potato or tornado” work style inspired a business model that respects her capacity.
* Why default decisions are running your business (and how to make them intentional instead).
* How standardizing your services first makes automation more effective (and less of a mess).
Missed our episode about Simplicity over Systems? You can listen to that here: https://aggressivelyhuman.substack.com/p/11-simplicity-over-systems
About Our Guest:
Listen to the Beyond Margins Podcast
Download the Services Swipe File
Connect with Us:
View the Full Show notes on our Substack: https://aggressivelyhuman.substack.com/
Connect with Meg and Jessica
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com
Depth as a Feature, Not a Bug: Winning clients through genuine care with Jeremy Enns
In a sea of marketing advice and growth hacks, let’s address the elephant in the room. What if the product is the problem?
If your product - your podcast, your service, your course - isn’t good enough, no amount of marketing is going to make that product grow. And yet, most courses, cohorts, or even higher-priced coaching programs don’t get into the actual experience of your work. Many providers are just not in the business of experiencing your business and your product (because it’s not as scalable).
And so podcast strategist Jeremy Enns has changed his business model to address that core issue. Instead of zigging, focusing on growth through courses and membership - which, as a purchaser, are truly outstanding - Jeremy’s zagging. Instead, Jeremy is embracing depth, obsession over the product, and care.
Jeremy is the founder of Podcast Marketing Academy where he helps underdog creators and challenger brands punch above their weight by engineering scrappy, yet sophisticated podcast growth & revenue generation strategies and step-by-step marketing schematics. He’s originally from the cold, barren Canadian Prairies but now lives in sunny Barcelona.
In today’s episode, hear how Jeremy’s depth-first approach is changing his business and client results:
* Why no marketing strategy can save a product no one wants - and what to do about it.
* The ‘aggressively human’ way Jessica and Jeremy met way before Jessica had a business, and how that impacted our relationship.
* Jeremy’s evolution from a highly-scaled business model to a high-touch service: why he did it and what it’s unlocking for his clients AND for his revenue
* When obsessing over your work is a differentiating factor in your marketing and delivery (and why your clients will thank you for it).
* How caring (yes, really) is Jeremy’s most effective marketing strategy, including what Jeremy cares about (and what he doesn’t care about).
* The automations that keep Jeremy in touch with his audience without being on the content hamster wheel.
About Our Guest:
Scrappy Podcasting Newsletter: https://podcastmarketingacademy.com/scrappy-podcasting-newsletter/
Podcast Marketing Trends Explained Podcast: https://podcastmarketingacademy.com/podcast-marketing-trends-explained
Podcast Marketing Academy YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@podcastmarketingacademy
Resources Mentioned:
* https://hiutdenim.co.uk/
* NeuroDiversion 2025 (the conference from the World Domination Summit creators)
Connect with Us:
View the Full Show notes on our Substack: https://aggressivelyhuman.substack.com/
Connect with Meg and Jessica
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com
Who gets human thoughts? The Fight for Trust in Content with Jessica Mehring
“It's because even if you end up completely rewriting it, it starts out without the human soul. And it's really hard to add the human soul. But if you can start with even the messiest human written draft, and then use AI to make it better, it has human soul to begin with, and it just ends up a much more human and resonant piece of writing.” - Jessica M
You’ve probably noticed it—the emails that don’t sound quite right, the sales pages full of word salad, the content that feels like it was written by a robot. Because it probably was.
This week we’re talking with Jessica Mehring, founder of Horizon Peak Consulting, specializing in conversion-focused editorial content, campaign copy and content strategy for B2B tech companies. She is also an author, speaker, and university lecturer, and she coaches leaders and their teams how to grow trust with their own writing. Where should AI fit into the writing process - or should it at all? How is AI impacting our communication and creativity - and how we can use it for the better?
In today’s episode:
- How the mixing of AI and human communication is eroding trust, starting way before ChatGPT came on to the scene.
- Why everything that comes out of GPT sounds oddly similar (introducing Jessica L’s new favorite term language homogeny)
- The right ways to use AI to be a tool in your content without removing the soul of your writing or introducing bias.
- Why one moment of friction in communication can cause us to question our trust in a company.
- If you have to use AI because you’re in an firm with a mandate to do so, where and how you might use AI (and where to avoid).
- How women (and other underrepresented voices) are mobilizing for seats at the AI development table.
“We go check out the social media and it's just this robotic slop. I look at that and I see a minuscule moment of friction in the customer experience, but that moment of friction is all it takes for a customer to question. ‘Do I believe everything else I've read? Can I trust this company? Should I give them my money?’ One moment of friction in the customer experience across the spectrum of content is enough for customers to question their purchase. And you never want customers to question their purchase.” - Jessica M
About our Guest
Jessica’s Thought Leadership and Teaching
Trust Fall: The Communication Connection
Resources Mentioned
The Perception Gap: When is it okay to use AI in content, and when is it not?
Connect with Us:
Subscribe to the Substack:
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com
Software in Service: Simplicity over Systems with Nikki McKnight
Who hasn’t set up a system (or hired someone else to do so) that seems to make your efficiency dreams come true... and that just didn't happen. Or worse? Broke your business.
The alternative? Embracing Simplicity over Systems. Embracing Simplicity over Systems, another core Aggressively Human pillar. How can we be thoughtful about where and how we use systems to be in service, instead of just buying systems as a service.
And who better to bring in our episode is fellow Ops brain Nikki McKnight. Nikki McKnight (she/her) is an operations and systems strategist for creatives who want to develop operations & systems that create industry-leading experiences for their clients. And yes, she’s also Meg’s co-host on the romance podcast First Dates and Soulmates - because successful millennials need hobbies too, right?
In today’s episode, hear our discussion about the role of systems in an “aggressively human” business
- The definition of “systems” you hear 99% of the time and why that’s one of the biggest myths we’re busting
- Why a fully automated customer journey might be the worst thing for your business
- The systems investments we regret and the tools we couldn’t run our businesses without (including Nikki’s Ninja Dashboard)
- Why all three of us embrace a “tool agnostic” approach in how we talk about systems and automations with our clients (and why that helps both our clients and us!).
- How to avoid giving away power - in all its definitions - to software, contractors, or algorithms and keep agency over your business decisions.
- Ways to use automations to prevent (or in some cases add) friction to improve your client experience… but only if you know where and why that’s happening
“A system is … a vehicle for everybody involved in the ecosystem to make a decision. Whether that is me as a business owner, whether that is a member of my team, whether that is a client that I am working with, whether it is a member of my audience that is not yet a client or may not ever be, the whole goal here is how do we make decisions? That's it. Full stop.” - Nikki
About our Guest
Nikki McKnight: http://www.theopsshop.biz/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nikkimcknight/
Subscribe to FAFO: the systems newsletter for creatives who hate 'em: https://theopsshop.biz/fafo/
Resources Mentioned:
Donella Meadows - Thinking in Systems
Connect with Meg and Jessica
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com
When a week feels like a year: January 2025 State of Play
“So maybe we're leaving or maybe we're staying, but we're staying as a person versus as a business owner. But then everyone is scattering. As a business, how are we marketing to people when it's diffuse? And then as a person, it's like, well, where's everyone going now? And how can I be there with my friends?” - Jessica
Every year, it feels like January is just the longest month ever.
But this year has felt like a whiplash between the beginning of the year until recording on January 24, 2025. Meta policy changes, TikTok ban and un-ban and more.
So we’ve broken from our schedule to cover a special “January 2025” state of play in the world of AI, algorithms, and automations.
We don’t have answers, because nobody does. We just simply have questions, and thoughts about how we might navigate this season. But hopefully this conversation can give you some food for thought about the questions we’re asking, and how these changes might have long-term ramifications on your overall marketing strategy — and mental health.
In today’s episode we discuss:
- The shifting currency of power: why attention is the world’s most valuable resource
- The cost of building your business on rented land, and what happens when the platform changes overnight
- The thorny questions around staying or leaving social media platforms
- What costs we might pay to leave the “free” platforms
- How your potential client behavior factors into where you can connect with them, and how to operate when that’s not necessarily where you want to spend time
- Why discernment is the word of the year when it comes to choosing where to put your time and attention
Join the Convo on Substack: https://aggressivelyhuman.substack.com/
Connect with Meg and Jessica
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com
"PIVOT!!" How to navigate a changing business landscape with Lacy Boggs
“AI cannot come up with new ideas. It can paste things together in new ways perhaps, but it's still it's still the monkeys on the typewriters, right? It's still the infinite monkey thing. It's just mashing together old ideas in new ways perhaps, but it can't come up with truly unique new ideas.” - Lacy Boggs
This week, we’re talking with Lacy Boggs, founder of the Content Direction Agency but also has done every business model in the online entrepreneurship space. We talk pivots, thought leadership, and how to stand out in the age of more content than ever.
In today’s episode we cover:
- How Lacy has decided what she wants to be when she grows up (and why her eulogy won’t be “I wrote marketing copy”).
- When should you pivot and descale and how that impacts your relationship to your body, your business, and marketing
- Where the human element is non-negotiable in coming up with new thoughts - not just AI mashing together old ideas
- The distinction between thought leadership and thought performance - and how to move beyond LinkedIn hot takes and selfies
- What tools are in Lacy’s toolkit in order to curate, compost, and communicate new thoughts and ideas
“I don't want AI to do my art and thinking - I want it to do my dishes and get my groceries, right? I want it to do the menial things so that I could do the art, and that's where I think we're probably going wrong.” - Lacy Boggs
About Our Guest:
Follow Lacy Boggs:
https://lacyboggs.com/
Resources Mentioned:
Writing Down the Bones by Natalie Goldberg
Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimmerer
Black Oracle Goddess Within Oracle Deck
Inoreader - Build Your Own News Feed
View the Full Show notes on our Substack: https://aggressivelyhuman.substack.com/
Connect with Meg and Jessica
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com
"Where everybody knows your name": the power of community over commodity
“I don't want to calculate my churn without knowing every single person who leaves.” - Meg
For businesses like ours, community is the lifeblood of a strong business. And when we are talking about community, we’re not just talking about an online platform where you can post in a forum. We’re talking about, as Meg says, “people who give a sh*t about each other”.
In today’s podcast, we dive into the Aggressively Human philosophy of Community > Commodity.
- Why being part of a community where everybody knows your name is a business advantage, not just a feel-good moment.
- The difference between real community and what most online businesses call "community" (hint: it’s not a forum or a membership site).
- How reciprocity flips the script from one-off transactions to a gift economy that ripples and expands out farther than you can see.
- Why community is so "hot" right now—and why it’s impossible to maintain if you’re only in it for the money.
- How pools, hubs, and webs are more than just metaphors—they’re frameworks for how communities are shaped
- The problem with treating your clients as commodities and what it really takes to create loyalty and trust.
- How community creates shared values and language that lead to better retention, referrals, and results.
Mentioned in the Episode:
Getting Brand Communities Right (pools, hubs, webs metaphor)
Expert Up Club - Dr. Michelle Mazur
A Wild New Work Podcast - Megan Leatherman
Referral Worthy Podcast - Dusti Arab
Savvy Social School (now the Mindful Marketing Lab) - Andreá Jones
Mighty Networks People Magic - Gina Bianchini
Connect with Us:
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com
Real voices in your ears: Human-centered podcasting with Amelia Hruby
The act of podcasting - recording it, editing it, and listening to it - is one of the most embodied acts in content creation. Because no matter how good the AI bots sound, there’s something simply human about listening to someone else’s authentic voice in your earbuds.
Today’s interview is with amelia hruby, founder of Softer Sounds podcast production studio and host of the Off the Grid podcast. Amelia has some strong points of view about AI in the podcasting industry, and the power of a human-oriented podcast process.
In today’s episode we dive into:
- The power of podcasting to bring our ideas to life and build trust in a way that is distinct to writing
- Why Softer Sounds leads with the voice in all aspects of the creation and production process (not just in the editing process)
- What happens when you take your magical, unique, sparkly creations and run them through AI processing and show notes (hint - they become dull, generic, choppy, and overly polished).
- How Amelia leads with her human-first and audio-first values - and how that is a powerful filter for the clients she works with
- The less obvious way you market and sell a higher-touch - and higher-cost - level of service
- The unexpected benefits from having multiple people on the other end of the podcast production process
“I built a lighthouse in my business that isn't really about podcasting, but brings to me people who are willing to ask hard questions about how they're willing and want to show up in their business” - Amelia
About Our Guest:
Follow Amelia
All of Amelia’s Other Podcasts!
Connect with Us:
Subscribe to the Substack and get the full show notes:
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com
Stop yelling into the echo chamber: Engage in Dialogue over Monologue
Dialogue over Monologue: Our next Aggressively Human pillar.
AI and automations can make it easy to have “faux-dialogue”: where you’re sent tons and tons of “personalized” emails, or you think you’re having a conversation with someone but you’re really just talking to an AI agent or a bot. And dialogue comes with risk: when you open up your world for real conversations, you might hear “no” or get people disagreeing with you.
In today's podcast we dive into:
- Why we might shy away from dialogue, but why Meg and Jessica chose this as a core Aggressively Human philosophy
- When you might actually choose automation over dialogue
- How dialogue reduces the gap between your ideas and real feedback (and why shouting into the void won’t get you there)
- Why we decided to co-host this podcast (and how we rely on each other and other colleagues in our work)
- The power of real time listening in order to pivot to the market (and keep making sales)
View the Full Show notes on our Substack: https://aggressivelyhuman.substack.com/
Connect with Meg and Jessica
Resources
Josh Spector’s For the Interested newsletter
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com
"But that won't scale!": High Touch (without High Pressure) Community Sales with Dr. Michelle Mazur
Dr. Michelle Mazur - messaging strategist and community builder for experts - has a point of view about sales for experts and other service-based businesses. Because the lower-touch approach to sales that might have worked a few years ago isn't working as well anymore.
In today’s episode, you’ll hear about how Michelle is taking a human-centric approach to sales and community building.
- Private tours, 80% conversions, zero sleaze—hear her sales process that is part college tour, part vibe check.
- “But it doesn’t scale!!” How to think about sales when you’re selling high-touch, high-value, or high-cost services.
- Want to speed up the buying cycle with automation and AI? Maybe not - how slowing down your sales process can actually make you the fastest closer in a weird economy.
- "No one buys community": what happens when you build community people didn’t know they needed—and how fast they connect once they’re inside.
- Marketing isn’t guesswork— how the quarterly marketing experiments in the Expert Up Club help her (and her clients) stop wasting time and start seeing results.
- Michelle’s “situationship” with Claude AI, and where this tool fits into her marketing system and tech stack
View the Full Show notes on our Substack: https://aggressivelyhuman.substack.com/
Connect with Meg and Jessica
Meg Casebolt: https://loveatfirstsearch.com/
Jessica Lackey: https://www.jessicalackey.com/
About our Guest
Michelle Mazur’s Three Word Rebellion – Her book that helps experts create clear, compelling messaging.
The Expert Up Club – Michelle’s community for experts focused on "do less but better" marketing.
Resources
The Duped Podcast – Co-hosted by Michelle Mazur and Maggie Patterson, exploring the dark side of online business.
Heidi Taylor – A sales coach mentioned in connection with Michelle’s business journey.
Claude AI – An AI tool Michelle uses to streamline her messaging work, particularly analyzing voice-of-customer data.
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com
It's not the size, it's what you do with it: a human approach to audience and list growth
Big audiences mean big revenue.... right? Maybe. But maybe not.
What if the money isn’t actually in your list, but instead in the relationships with the people on your list?
What if for service providers, it’s about the right people on your list, versus more people on your list?
What if it’s not about contacts and conversion rates, but instead about connections and conversations?
In this episode, hear our Aggressively Human philosophy #1: Conversations over Contacts.
- When the money isn’t in the banana stand (or your list) and the power of smaller, engaged lists
- What happens when you start conversations with your email subscribers (and why you’ll never take sales calls out of our business models)
- Busting the paradigm of “conversion rates” and search volume and why we need to think differently about how we engage with our subscribers as service providers (and why 10 parents searching for dyslexia help for their child locally can be better than 10,000 clicks.)
- Why your business model informs your audience growth strategy (and why Jessica is leaning in to growing her list without the pressure to “monetize it” right away)
- Learn how Meg turns referrals into future collaborations (and it’s not through an automated sequence)
Resources:
Give to Grow by Mo Bunnell
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com
De-scaling isn't just for Keurigs! Selling her social media agency with Andréa Jones
When your family expands, the goal should be to automate more, to delegate more, and keep business as usual, right? Not for today’s guest.
Andréa Jones is a marketing and social media strategist that recently left the high-pressure agency world behind after the birth of her second child, focusing now on marketing strategy and a marketing strategy membership. In this episode, learn her aggressively human approach to marketing, community management, her business model and oh yes - doing business while being a parent.
- The shift from the Savvy Social brand to the Mindful Marketing brand, and how that fits in with her community-centric approach to marketing
- How parenthood shifted Andréa’s approach to work, parenting, and saying “no”
- The “aha” moment that had her questioning her whole business model, after working with some of the biggest names in online business.
- Andréa’s current and future marketing strategy, now that she’s no longer running her agency
About Our Guest:
Follow Andréa Jones: https://onlinedrea.com/
Resources Mentioned:
Mindful Marketing Podcast: Dark Social: What is it + How it’s Affecting Your Business
Andréa’s The Everything Page
Elizabeth Goddard’s Original Everything Page
View the Full Show notes on our Substack: https://aggressivelyhuman.substack.com/
Connect with Meg and Jessica
Meg Casebolt: https://loveatfirstsearch.com/
Jessica Lackey: https://www.jessicalackey.com/
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com
Our radioactive spider bite: The origin story of Aggressively Human
“I'm just a girl looking around the internet trying not to stare at my own reflection on Zoom all day.”
What does being Aggressively Human mean? And why would two very busy service-based business owners start yet another podcast, when we could be instead posting 5 times a day on social media?
Tune in to hear the origin story of the Aggressively Human idea: what it is and where it came from and why we're collaborating on it.
- The Birth of “Aggressively Human”: How Jessica and Meg met, and the turn of phrase that got stuck in Meg’s head like a Smash Mouth song and turned into this podcast
- What being “Aggressively Human” means to us and why it’s a zig to more relational strategies in business when the market appears to be zagging
- Why this podcast is so relevant for us now, both as collaborators and business owners, based on the market trends in AI, automations, and algorithms. (Ensh*ttification of the internet, we’re looking at you).
- The format of the podcast, including interviews and behind-the-scenes looks at our own businesses
View the Full Show notes on our Substack: https://aggressivelyhuman.substack.com/
Connect with Meg and Jessica
Meg Casebolt: https://loveatfirstsearch.com/
Jessica Lackey: https://www.jessicalackey.com/
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com
Teaser: What does it mean to be 'Aggressively Human'?
Our world is becoming increasingly automated & AI-generated. What does that mean for your business?
For experts & service-based businesses, the answer isn’t always to chase the trends … it’s to be Aggressively Human.
Join co-hosts Jessica Lackey, business strategist, and Meg Casebolt, search marketing specialist, as we share behind-the-scenes of running our own businesses by embracing connection and discussing how we can use technology to be more human.
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com
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Podcasten Aggressively Human: Online Business in the Age of AI, Algorithms & Automations är skapad av Meg Casebolt & Jessica Lackey. Podcastens innehåll och bilderna på den här sidan hämtas med hjälp av det offentliga podcastflödet (RSS).
En liten tjänst av I'm With Friends. Finns även på engelska.