Trump-Xi Meeting, China’s Four-Pronged AI Strategy, Path to US-China AI Cooperation with Kristy Loke

In this episode, I speak with Kristy Loke, an AI governance researcher focused on US-China relations, about what the latest Trump-Xi meeting could mean for AI governance, safety, and cooperation between the two leading AI powers. We discuss the possibility of an incident reporting mechanism for malicious AI-enabled cyber activity, the growing risks around frontier models, and whether the US and China may have more shared interests than the current competition narrative suggests.

One part of our conversation I found particularly interesting was Kristy’s framework for understanding China’s AI strategy. Rather than simply racing toward the frontier, she describes a four-pronged approach focused on staying close to the technological frontier, translating AI into productivity gains, securing core technology supply chains, and protecting people’s welfare. This helps explain some of China’s decisions around AI diffusion, chips, and regulation of emerging technologies such as AI companions.

Kristy argues that the American approach is more closely tied to technological leadership and power, while China’s approach is more pragmatic and focused on longer-term economic and social goals. That distinction also raises questions about how AI safety is framed, particularly when scientific concerns about frontier models become intertwined with geopolitical and commercial interests.

We ended by looking at whether meaningful US-China coordination is actually possible. Kristy sees a potential path from continued dialogue to sharing safety practices and, eventually, common standards, even as competition remains intense. We also talked about what middle powers such as Singapore, the UK, and countries in Europe can do as AI governance increasingly becomes a conversation between the world’s two leading AI powers.

Relevant articles by Kristy:

* https://www.theinformation.com/articles/americas-ai-dream-failing-launch?rc=sqpcn6

* https://www.wired.com/story/china-isnt-buying-silicon-valley-call-for-ai-slowdown/

The AI Proem Podcast is part of the AI Proem newsletter, which has ~13k followers globally. To learn more about China AI, the business of AI, and how AI is impacting society, please check out the newsletter here and more insightful conversations here.

Chapters

00:00 AI Governance and International Relations

02:48 The Stakes of AI Safety

05:42 China’s Pragmatic Approach to AI

08:05 The Dynamics of US-China AI Competition

10:56 The Future of AI Cooperation

16:05 The Four Prongs of China’s AI Strategy

24:36 Contrasting AI Visions: China vs. America

27:43 Personal Journey into AI Governance

36:09 The Intersection of Governance and Development

38:59 Non-Consensus Views on AI Leadership

40:24 Middle Powers in AI Governance

AI- Generated Transcript (for reference only)

Grace Shao (00:00)

Hi Kristy, thank you so much for joining us today.

Kristy Loke (00:02)

Hi Grace, great to be here.

Grace Shao (00:03)

Yeah, so you’re studying in Toronto, but you are watching the Trump-Xi meeting very closely. I I believe you were just on like all kinds of media throughout the day commenting on what happened. Help us understand the high level takeaways. Xi and Trump just met in DC, I believe it was yesterday, and AI governance, AI safety was very high on the agenda.

Kristy Loke (00:24)

Yeah, I think a good way to think about it is good vibes actually matter in this kind of summit where the actors play a major role. Xi and Trump clearly have a rapport. And I thought it was really good to see a continuation, if not a formalization, of the AI dialogue that started in May. so it’s good to see that. And then there were some pre-summit discussions by Bessent and He Lifeng, the Chinese and US representatives. about potentially setting up an incident reporting mechanism which would meet some of the growing needs for them to either de-escalate or warn each other of like let’s say malicious actor activity around models.

Grace Shao (01:03)

So what is the de escalation plan looking like? Do you know anything about that?

Kristy Loke (01:08)

Yeah, I think we’re very thin on details currently, but it’s promising that they’re talking about it because they might urgently need it in some near point in the future. Although they are meeting each other soon, which is also great. Yeah, another thing of note is that it’s very much like a continuation of the Busan truce that started last year, like last October, where because China tried the Trump card of Rare Earth and to counter the US’ escalate in terms of trade, but also in terms of chip supply. and so we’re basically at this point where there’s almost like a ceiling, although tenuous between them when it comes to tension over chips and tension over other technological points of tension.

Grace Shao (01:50)

Yeah, you can say that like since twenty eighteen, there’s been a bit of a back and forth, tit for tat for a while. And at this point, it almost feels like there’s a window for AI cooperation, tension, de-escalation, because you know, both sides have realized, you know, if there’s no international standard in terms of governance, AI models themselves could actually be of risk for society of their own nation, like each nation, right? How do you see that? Like what’s the kind of c realistic collaboration we can see or something that could meaningfully, you know, be beneficial for two nations or even the world?

Kristy Loke (02:25)

Mm. I yeah, absolutely. I think the stakes got really real for them around April this year when Mythos was released or is somewhat withheld from release by First Anthropic on safety grounds and then also by the Trump administration on security grounds. And so that kind of woke up a lot of countries around the world and from China’s perspective, it’s also a little bit scary because are we treating AI like a weapon? Is it going to be used against China? So it prompted a lot of discussions. But part of the surprise is: whoa, this is really real. The cyber capabilities are getting kind of really good. and another point, the point of more joint stake and joint like common ground between them is that they both do not want malicious cyber actors to use it against their critical infrastructure. So the setting up of the incident like protocol or communication can also address this problem so they can deal with it quicker together. But of course, part of cyber is heroism, part of cyber is very much a common ground place. And so there are two facets to that as well. But yeah, so essentially it got really real for them in April. And then the subsequent months have also been crazy as those of us who follow AI closely, there were the hugging phase, OpenAI, cyber incidents that then, you know, we then find out that it also happened to Anthropic. and so that episode is not over, right? People are still like Trend Micro is an organization that recently found that it was kind of much deeper, you know, it’s kind of spreading in some ways. And so it’s an evolving situation which prompted the two leading AI powers to kind of get together and figure out what they can do. I don’t think the climate is right for pacing. And as Xi’s speech kind of pointed out, or kind of like pointing us towards I I really I I thought his framing was really interesting. So the way that he talked about AI was in the vein of the US and China are the leading AI powers. And therefore we have the ability to and we have the responsibility to to make sure AI goes well and is managed well. So it’s almost like a little bit of a subtle response to people who say, we can’t do anything, you know, we can only stop it, or you know, go full steam ahead and China’s more like. we kinda gotta control it, but for now we’ll keep it going. But we’re worried. Yeah.

Grace Shao (04:40)

How do you actually view that?

Kristy Loke (04:42)

Mm.

Grace Shao (04:43)

How do you view the whole narrative around that we must pace our efforts in pushing towards frontier suddenly, right? Like from the US side and also from the China side.

Kristy Loke (04:52)

Yeah, so it’…

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