Courage: Guts, grit, spine, heart, and verve.

Polish-born Sabina Wolanski, now 80, was a teenager when her entire family was killed by Nazis, and was the sole Holocaust survivor to speak at the launch of the Memorial to the Murdered Jews of Europe. Russian-born Maria Tumarkin came to Australia as a teenager in 1980s. Her new book unearths courage in the crevices of everyday life, and she's defiantly not interested in heroes. They join Natasha Mitchell in an intimate exchange about brave minds.