The Insight Chord

Vince Horn, Emily Horn, and Brian Newman talk through the design of their Insight Chord Retreat in Western North Carolina—why everyone will start with a single “go-to move” (of their choosing) for the first 3 days, what Brian learned about reintegration after doing daily multiplayer meditation on retreat, and how to maximize individual choicemaking on the retreat while having a solid community of practice to fall back on, including qualified teachers & dedicated peers.

💬 Transcript

Vince Horn: So in the service of using the time we have wisely here, our plan today—Brian, Emily, and I wanted to have a conversation about this retreat that we’re planning in January 2027 here in Western North Carolina, on the Insight Chord. We wanted to talk a bit about some of, like, the design thinking that’s going into this retreat and how we’re planning on holding it together.

And we’re happy to be tested, and we realize it’s a lot of trust that people put in teachers and communities when they go on retreat. It’s a very intimate and very suggestive space of practice, so we want to make sure we honor people’s choice-making there.

Yeah, thank you, Brian and Emily, for joining me today in this. It’s great to be here with y’all.

So there really are three things that we wanted to talk about. This is going to be more of, like, a free-flowing conversation, but I’ll set up the frame a little bit here for us first. If you got an email from me last week talking about this retreat, you’ll have seen that there were three points I wanted to highlight that I think make this retreat kind of unique and different from the kinds of meditation retreats you might have been on or heard about, in some ways.

I’m not saying that it’s completely different and everything we’re doing is completely novel. Of course, that’s not true. The first thing that we’re doing is not novel at all. In a way, it’s just the way that we’re framing it that I think is novel, and that’s the focus on this retreat on what we’re calling the Insight Chord.

This is, in a way, super traditional in the early Buddhist tradition. You’d see these three practices or these three ways of practicing: Concentration, Mindfulness, and Heartfulness, or shamatha, samādhi, vipassanā, and mettā, brahmavihāra practice. All of these things you’re going to see in early Buddhist retreats.

You’re going to see them at the insight tradition. You’re going to see them on Goenka retreats. You’re going to see them anywhere you go and do an intensive retreat. These practices will show up. What I think is unique is that we see that. We see that as the unique chord or unique combination of practices that makes this early Buddhist tradition sort of distinctive.

It gives it a particular sound or flavor, and we really value that flavor, the three of us, because we’ve trained deeply in that tradition. And so we wanted to kind of build this retreat around these three practices or these three ways of practicing. I’d like to open it up here in a moment just to talk about that, but I’ll just quickly name the other two points of the retreat that are distinctive.

One is that we’re going to be holding a kind of tension that’s hopefully generative. Brian and I certainly found it quite generative on our last retreat, The Flavors of Jhāna, where we’re going to hold this tension between the exclusive focus in meditation—like focusing exclusively on one thing to the exclusion of everything else, narrowing your attention so that you’re just, say, with the breath or just with your mettā phrases or whatever it might be—and then on the other hand, we’ve got an inclusive focus that is broad and open.

It’s like the kind of practice where you’re opening to include everything in your field of awareness. This is very similar to, like, the Zen style of shikantaza, or our social, multiplayer meditation forms, you know, where we’re meditating out loud with other people. And we’re going to hold this tension between exclusive and inclusive on the retreat, giving space for both types of practice.

And then finally, we’re going to hold another tension that’s generative between what I would call here agency-maxing and community-maxing, or between agency and communion. And that is, we’re going to honor and acknowledge that each one of us are adults on this retreat who are going to be practicing our own practice, choosing how to practice.

At the same time, we’re doing that together in an explicitly communal container that’s been designed over thousands of years to help make that process more efficient and more powerful. So how do we hold both agency and communion together in a way that they really serve and support each other?

That’s the third thing that we’re going to be holding together as we do this retreat. So yeah, let me just open it up here to my colleagues and friends. Talk a bit about each of these three points. We can of course go one by one, or we can kind of move around as your minds do.

Emily Horn: Yeah, I just want to say I’m really excited about this particular weaving together of practices. And in some ways you could really go deep on one of the three, or you can really follow, like, a traditional kind of arc. Meaning you can start with concentration, and once concentration gets really steady you can start to incline, if you choose to, to really deepen into the vipassanā or insight.

In particular, you know, we’ll definitely include teachings around three characteristics like impermanence, no self, and, ugh, suffering. And then there’s going to be opportunities to really deepen with the heart. And I’ve been teaching heart jhāna practice for the last, I don’t know, couple years now, and particularly focused on how do you build concentration within the heart states.

And so I’m really excited to have that a part of this retreat, and also have it as part of it in a way where you can emphasize it a lot, or you can just know that it’s happening in the background, and know that you’re held with it. So to me that feels like a really interesting way to be able to participate in a retreat, is to be able to kind of increase that sense of discernment that we all really need to increase with our practice.

Like, really we’re deepening in concentration, insight, and heartfulness, and at the same time we’re also learning how to discern what’s needed in our own practice. And a lot of times I feel like the discernment part is lacking on retreats. Like, how do you really start to learn, like, what’s needed and what’s going to be beneficial to your practice?

And so I’m really hoping that, being held with a teaching team with Brian and Vince and myself, that we’ll be able to support you, and really, in a sense, driving your own car. And then we’re there to really support you in not going off the sides of the cliffs or anything.

We’ll have you. I feel confident in that. So yeah, that’s what comes up for me right now.

Vince Horn: Kenneth, when we were leading retreats together—and Brian, you were on one of those retreats, so you know this well—we came up with this idea of the go-to move, and it was an attempt to sort of help preserve people’s agency on retreat, explicitly to say, “Hey, like, it’s up to you what you choose to do.”

But if you just leave yourself in the sort of paralysis of choice where you could do anything at any time, it’s really problematic, because then you spend a lot of time worrying about what to do and if you’re doing it right, rather than actually doing something useful. So the go-to move was meant to kind of undercut that tendency to get lost in choice while still having choice preserved.

And here the choice is, if on this retreat there’s any point at which I don’t know what to do, this is what I’m going to do. I’m going to do this go-to move. It’s like the thing I know I can trust that I’m good at. For me, it was Noting, and for Kenneth, I think Noting as well. But for other people, it could be focus here on the breath, or it could be back to love, or to May Love Arise.

One thing I think is unique about this retreat, in addition to suggesting that y’all have a go-to move, anyone who’s on the retreat, is that we’re going to start the first few days just with the go-to move. So we’re going to invite everyone to pick the one thing you know you can do and just focus on doing that for the first three days, so that we actually have this sort of crucible of concentration that starts to build, of one-pointedness, that makes it a lot easier later on in the retreat when we start to kind of open up the teachings and open up the possibility space—to have some stability and some malleability of mind that allows that to be more fruitful.

So that’s one thing that we’re—in terms of design thinking and holding together agency and community, while at the same time recognizing certain things on retreat just seem to work well, just like having just one thing to focus on for a few days before you start to kind of get experimental and start, you know, doing the freestyle jazz practice.

That’s one thing I wanted to highlight there that I think kind of is important.

Brian Newman: Being the resident shamatha jhāna person, I’d like to say a little bit about that. So many great meditation centers around the world have established this as a really tried and true method. They’re going to start you with three days of concentration practice and then take you into the primary practice after that.

What this does is it produces a feeling of ambient concentration in the meditation hall and everywhere, in fact. And ambient concentration is something that you feel if you go into a yoga shala and they’re practicing Ashtanga. The whole room is concentrated, and it’s a bodily felt thing. We all, I think, are familiar with the proximate cause of concentration, and the proximate cause of concentration, for those who haven’t heard it, is concentration itself.

And it turns out that other people’s concentration can be a proximate cause to yours. And so if we can get a feeling of ambient concentration happening in our meditation hall and the dining hall and the public spaces, that’s going to help everybody get more concentrated, and I think we’re all going to really feel that.

And then what this opens up is, what you might not see on day one as a potential for practice becomes available to you on day four, after the mind is quite settled and concentrated. So you might want to make different choices than you would have at the beginning of the retreat about what you might have focused on.

So I think this is a way of expanding your possibilities for deeper practice, if we adopt a little bit of rigor up front with a go-to move.

Vince Horn: Yeah, I like it too because it sort of acknowledges, hey, retreat is itself a kind of exclusive practice form, and it makes sense, if we’re going to leave our home and our jobs and our kids and our everything and come to do this thing, that in the beginning we do that, we kind of, like, just collect and gather our attention in a very exclusive way.

Then we can start to open up into the inclusive practice a little bit more, and to more relational practice and things that help kind of expand the field of practice. But it seems like expanding from a small point is really skillful oftentimes, because you have the stability of that small point of focus first, the focus here. The ānāpānasati I love for that reason.

It’s so skillful to start there because that’s where usually people are, and that’s what they can manage, is to focus right here. So yeah, in that sense I’m looking forward to going with the natural development of the practice and how it seems to work normally, and just kind of designing a format that kind of goes with that as much as possible rather than working against it.

Emily Horn: I also want to bring in the multiplayer meditation. So Vince, do you want to talk a little bit about the multiplayer meditation option?

Vince Horn: Oh, so you just wanted to call on me to talk about it? I gotcha. Yeah, sure, I can talk about that. I mean, so that’ll be something that we’ll bring into this retreat. Oftentimes Brian, Emily, and myself use that as a teaching tool—not just guided meditation, but we’ll sometimes bring in these multiplayer practices.

We’ll probably be doing that from very early on, and just giving people an option to participate in those sessions so they can get a sense for extending the meditation practice into the relational space. And I think, Brian, going into our retreat last January, it was really cool to see how, like, your relationship to the practice seemed to change over the retreat, and it was—I don’t know if you could share a little bit about that, because it’s a, it’s a good testament.

Brian Newman: Yeah, so, well, I have very little experience on a retreat of doing sort of social practices like that.

And when Vince and I were planning the retreat schedule—did we do it twice a day, Vince, or once?

Vince Horn: Well, at least once.

Brian Newman: At least once. When we were planning the retreat schedule, Vince said, “So we’ll, you know, we’ll be having a 2:00 PM session every day when we’re all going to be talking and social,” and I’m like, “You’re doing what? Every day?” What if it was like every five days maybe or something? It was kind of my idea. So I wasn’t openly resistant, but I was kind of, in the context of a silent retreat...

What I’d like to say is that I’m a complete convert. Absolutely converted, and here’s some reasons why.

And I wasn’t an easy convert, I don’t think. So here’s one thing I was thinking of. You know when you feel sick or bad or tired, and you meet a good friend, and you have like a little chat, and you just feel better? Like, there’s that quality to it. So when some of us are sort of feeling a lot of dukkha, that social power, really the interpersonal stuff, does something to the system.

It’s really uplifting. So there’s something there. By integrating this every day, it turns out it didn’t make any concentration worse, at least in my experience. Nobody was like a worse meditator because of that. But what does happen is, on the backside when you’re leaving the retreat, reintegration is completely different.

Because at least once a day you’re having some social interaction. In my case, when I practice really hard, I go back to normal non-retreat life—I’ve had my wife say things to me like, “Maybe you should take three days after the retreat before you come home,” because I’m so frazzled and jittery she doesn’t even want me around.

That completely wasn’t the case in Portugal, and I think it was because of the social practice of just being with people, talking a little bit, that made that movement out so much better. So, totally converted, and can’t really imagine a group retreat without it now. I think this is essential and probably really unique about our retreats, that this happens.

So for some of you that are like, “Oh, God, I don’t want to be in the room meditating with people,” I was probably the hardest to convert, and I vouch for the effectiveness of this.

Emily Horn: Yeah, and I’ll just vouch for the effect in a trauma-informed way. I’ve seen, on multiple retreats now with multiple situations, that for some people, like, this actually really provides an opportunity for co-regulation that’s really needed in a retreat.

And it really does support the prevention of any kind of sense that you’re isolated and doing something alone. Like, this really can soothe the nervous system in a way that’s very impactful for a lot of people. And I’ve also heard that for some people concentration actually deepens with this kind of meditation, because they’re able to have the accountability.

Their nervous system needs that accountability with other nervous systems to be able to feel comfortable enough to settle, because a lot of times on these retreats, going from 150 miles an hour to zero, that in itself is quite a transition, and a lot happens in transitions. And so we want to make sure that you all have options and choices on this retreat so that we can slowly and steadily sense into, you know, what it’s like to collect and to soothe our nervous systems, not only individually, but also collectively.

Okay, two things. My mind is diverging. But one thing to close the loop on the social meditation, before this session is over: if it would be helpful, I’m happy to model it with Vince and Brian. We can do a little bit so you have a sense of it and a taste of it, because sometimes just talking about it, it doesn’t land in a way that, if you could see it and experience it, that might be helpful.

The other thing that my mind is diverging—I’ll be very honest with you. We’re staying at Art of Living Center in Boone, North Carolina, and there’s a spa. And I don’t really know if I’m talking to anybody in here that likes spas, but I do want to say that that is an option. So anyway, just to let you all know that. And I think that’s probably enough for that. We can model the social meditation, but I’ll give it space and see what’s here.

Brian Newman: I’m just remembering also, there’s other retreat groups there that aren’t in total silence—that’s right—which is also kind of interesting. So Vince, can you maybe say something about that? I think you know more.

Vince Horn: Yeah. So this is a really large retreat center, and in fact they can host something like, I don’t know, a 1,000-person retreat.

We have a smaller meditation hall that’s just for us, and so people can practice there in silence any time. There will be other people on different retreats sharing the same, like, eating facilities as us. And so this is going to be an interesting opportunity, I think, to either eat in silence as a group and kind of notice what it’s like to be silent while there’s activity going on—so kind of maintaining silence.

And there’s going to be an option, which I’ll facilitate, around having a kind of contemplative lunch with others where there is some speaking, but it’s geared around a particular question, and it’s not like we’re just jabbering, you know? It’s like, there’s an actual intent behind the speech.

So that’s another place we’re going to play with the exclusive and inclusive focus, and give you some choice-making around, do you want to be in silence and kind of nurturing that exclusive focus, or do you want to play around—probably after the first few days, we probably won’t start with this, but like later on in the retreat—play around with being at a table with fellow retreatants and exploring a topic that’s meaningful while eating together.

So yeah, that’ll be something that’s, I think, pretty unique. I remember experiencing this once on one of my earliest retreats in Colorado. I went on a short retreat over the weekend in this community that had a retreat center, but it was like a normal community where people lived, they had kids, they did their thing.

They would all come into the dining hall and talk, and I was like, “Oh gosh, this isn’t like IMS where everything is in pure pristine silence.” But I learned so much about practice doing it that way, because I was like, “Oh, this is what it’s like to practice in normal life. Like, if you’re being silent and exclusive and you have to deal with distractions, like, this is a good training environment for that.”

So yeah, the distractions are opportunities more than anything, on a retreat like this.

Emily Horn: And if you really want to go the hermit route—last time I was there, and I’ll have to confirm—they let people take out their meals. So come and get your meal and take it out. So there is a wide range of hermit to more of the more inclusive—

Brian Newman: More relational.

Emily Horn: Relational.

Brian Newman: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Emily Horn: Mm.

Brian Newman: Yes. Yeah, the retreats we’ve done there at this retreat center have been with the Ram Dass community. And those retreats, there’s no silence. It’s just totally open. People are drinking chai, listening to kirtan, and chatting.

And often, sometimes, hooking up and all kinds of things. It’s on the far end of the inclusive side of the spectrum. So we’re going to be somewhere between that and a really silent, strict insight meditation retreat.

Are we taking precepts against hooking up?

Emily Horn: I was just going to say, we’ll have group guidelines. That opened us up to, like, so what are the guidelines? Sorry.

Brian Newman: Yeah, yeah. Right, right.

Emily Horn: And we, yes, we will have group guidelines around appropriate sexuality and substances. That’s—

Brian Newman: High beds.

Emily Horn: Those are the two main ones, and then there’s some other ones you can, we’ll talk about, like technology and things like that.

Vince Horn: On the Insight Chord, would it be useful just to say, like, Emily’s going to be emphasizing teachings on heartfulness, Brian will be emphasizing teachings on shamatha, concentration, and I’ll be doing the same with vipassanā, mindfulness. So we’re going to be, each one of us, holding one of those strands as we weave them together.

But of course, you know, we each have experience with the different strands. So these are not—we’re not sort of specialists per se. We’re just more like holding the things that we tend to specialize in more, so that we can kind of make the whole weave a little bit more, I don’t know, interesting.

Do you want to model the multiplayer meditation?

Sure, why don’t we do that?

Emily Horn: That would be my suggestion, just in case. Mm-hmm.

Brian Newman: What practice do you want to propose here, Em?

Emily Horn: Maybe there is noting.

Brian Newman: Mm-hmm.

Emily Horn: And then drop the “there is.”

Brian Newman: Okay, sounds good.

Emily Horn: I’ll kick it off. Hearing.

Brian Newman: There is confusion.

Vince Horn: There is confusion.

Emily Horn: There is seeing.

Brian Newman: There is delight.

Vince Horn: There is hearing.

Emily Horn: There is understanding.

Brian Newman: There is confusion.

Vince Horn: There is relaxing.

Emily Horn: Breathing.

Brian Newman: Stability.

Vince Horn: Inhaling.

Emily Horn: Relaxing.

Brian Newman: Concentration.

Vince Horn: Fatigue, unpleasant.

Emily Horn: Thinking.

Brian Newman: Gone.

Vince Horn: Impermanence.

Emily Horn: Heartfulness.

Brian Newman: Anticipation.

Vince Horn: Energy.

Emily Horn: Deliberating thought.

Brian Newman: Opening.

Vince Horn: Dropping.

Emily Horn: Breathing.

Brian Newman: Bliss.

Vince Horn: Itching.

Emily Horn: Joy.

Brian Newman: Bliss.

Vince Horn: Flow.

Emily Horn: Calm.

Brian Newman: Self-consciousness.

Vince Horn: Breathing long.

Emily Horn: Pressure.

Brian Newman: Twitching.

Vince Horn: Tingling.

Emily Horn: Thank you.

Brian Newman: Thank you.

Vince Horn: Thanks.

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