Why Festival Laurels Won't Sell Your Film, Part 2

How did a pizza and a talk about favorite movies turn into one of Joe Amodei's closest friendships?

These are the film industry secrets Christian kept pushing Joe and Tim to share, the things filmmakers usually learn too late. Festival laurels feel wonderful, but they won't sell your film to a streamer. And one early IMDb entry can make a new film look years old. Part 1: listen to Part 1

In Episode 234, Christian continues her conversation with Joe Amodei, founder of Virgil Films and Entertainment, and co-president Tim Maggiani. Virgil distributes Christian's film The Girl Who Wore Freedom. They aren't paying to be here; this episode is sponsored by Artillery Sports.

Joe has stood on festival stages for standing ovations, and he still tells filmmakers the truth: streamers buy for fit. Christian learned the IMDb lesson the hard way, when theaters looked up her film and saw a festival date years older than its release. Tim walks through how IMDb, Amazon, Apple and Tubi each decide what viewers see and how money flows back. Then Christian asks Joe to remember Morgan Spurlock, and he tells the story of a friendship that started over pizza in New York and lasted until the end.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• Why festival laurels help you find a distributor but won't make a streamer buy
• How IMDb feeds Amazon's pages, and why a festival date can become your release date
• What a 90 day new release window is, and why buyers check a film's age on IMDb first
• How streamer and studio premieres have crowded indie films out of the big festivals
• The Sundance night Joe watched studio reps surround the producer of Napoleon Dynamite
• Why Christian's own Amazon page listed a friend with ten seconds of voiceover as the star
• How Amazon's store runs on sales while Apple's has people choosing what to feature
• Why AVOD services like Tubi now reach a separate audience worth having
• How rental splits and CPM ad revenue reach the filmmaker
• Joe's memories of Morgan Spurlock, from their first pizza to their last visit

Chapters

0:00 Secrets Filmmakers Should Know

2:25 What Laurels Can't Buy

6:01 IMDb's Release Date Trap

11:14 The 90 Day Window

14:26 Big Festivals, Fewer Doors

17:45 Napoleon Dynamite at Sundance

20:44 Who Gets Top Billing?

25:31 Algorithms Versus Curators

30:46 Tubi and AVOD Audiences

36:00 How Revenue Splits Work

40:35 Remembering Morgan Spurlock

Frequently Asked Questions

Do film festival laurels help sell a film to streamers?

Not much, according to Joe Amodei of Virgil Films. He told Documentary First in 2024 that festival wins can help a filmmaker get a distributor to watch the film, but a streamer buys a film because it fits what it's looking for at that moment. Christian added that her own festival run brought an audience and connections but cost a lot of money and aged the film a year, so each filmmaker has to weigh it.

How does IMDb affect a film's release date?

Tim Maggiani of Virgil Films told Documentary First in 2024 that IMDb is owned by Amazon and feeds Amazon's store pages. When a festival premiere goes up on IMDb, that date can become the film's first release date, so a 2024 release can show as 2022. That can cost a film its new release status with buyers. The fix discussed: list the film as in post-production until it's distributed.

Is it bad to put a documentary on Tubi or other free ad-supported services?

Not anymore. Tim Maggiani told Documentary First in 2024 that AVOD viewers are a separate, often younger audience who may never rent, buy or subscribe, so a film there can find new viewers instead of stealing sales. Joe Amodei added that as ad-supported services grew, the revenue grew too, and he sees nothing wrong with releasing on AVOD and transactional platforms the same day.

How do filmmakers get paid from rentals and ad-supported streaming?

Tim Maggiani of Virgil Films explained it on Documentary First in 2024. For rentals, the platform keeps roughly 30 to 40 percent and reports the rest to the distributor, which takes its fee and pays the filmmaker. Ad-supported services work on CPM, a rate per thousand ad views. In his example, if an advertiser pays Tubi $10, Tubi keeps half and passes $5 on for that film.

DocuView Deja View Pick

Super Size Me: Christian chose it as a tribute, and Joe remembers his friend, director Morgan Spurlock.

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About the Guests

Joe Amodei is the founder of Virgil Films and Entertainment. He took on Super Size Me when his company was new and bigger companies wouldn't, and its director, Morgan Spurlock, became one of his closest friends.

Tim Maggiani is co-president of Virgil Films and Entertainment. He started as an intern in 2004 and built the company's digital distribution business, and today handles pitch materials, delivery and promotions.

About Virgil Films and Entertainment

Virgil Films and Entertainment is an independent film distributor led by Joe Amodei. Its releases include Super Size Me, Restrepo, Forks Over Knives and I Am Chris Farley. Virgil distributes Christian's film The Girl Who Wore Freedom. virgilfilms.com

About Documentary First

Documentary First is a weekly podcast about the people behind documentaries and how the work changed them. Host Christian Taylor, director of the award-winning The Girl Who Wore Freedom, talks with filmmakers, distributors, entertainment lawyers, actors and more, from Ken Burns and PBS American Masters creator Susan Lacy to first-timers, across nearly 300 conversations. Each week brings one of two formats: a long-form conversation with the people behind films for HBO, Netflix, PBS and independent film, or The Deep Dive, where Christian takes one insight from a recent conversation and follows it wherever it leads. Listen Notes ranks the show in the top 5% of all podcasts worldwide. New episodes every week.

Resources Mentioned

• Virgil Films and Entertainment
• Artillery Sports
• Part 1 of this conversation
• Cold War in Philly with Joe Amodei (Ep. 283)