Jessica Levin on Directing Billy Joel: And So It Goes

How do you get a man who hides behind his piano to tell the story of his life?

That was the work Jessica Levin and Susan Lacy took on in Billy Joel: And So It Goes, the two-part HBO documentary they directed together. Billy Joel had turned down documentaries before. He doesn't sit comfortably with praise, and he figured everything was already in his songs. Jessica says that's partly true: his music is "ripped from the journal of his life." The film follows those songs back to the people and the pain behind them.

In Episode 264, Christian sits down with Jessica, a lifelong Billy Joel fan who has worked with Susan for almost 25 years, from American Masters to their company, Pentimento Productions. Jessica tells the story of proudly telling Billy her favorite album was Street Life Serenade, only to hear it was his least favorite. And she explains who Elizabeth Weber was, Billy's first wife and manager, who spent four decades out of his life before speaking in this film.

Jessica walks through how the trust was built: starting with family history and classical music, taking "baby steps," and making a film with no editorial control by Billy or his camp. When Susan asked about sensitive areas, Billy told her, "Tell the truth." She talks about the lyric books, the home movies, a score made entirely of Billy Joel music (more than 110 of his songs), and why the story jumps back to his childhood and to his family's flight from Nazi Germany where it does.

WATCH THE FILM: Billy Joel: And So It Goes streams on HBO Max.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• Why Jessica calls Billy Joel's songs "ripped from the journal of his life"
• Why Billy sat at the piano before every interview
• Who Elizabeth Weber was, and why her interview mattered to fans
• How Jessica met Susan Lacy on a Joni Mitchell film
• Why HBO became the team's filmmaking home
• How family history and classical music opened the door
• Why building trust takes "building blocks"
• What it means to make a film with no editorial control by the subject
• How more than 110 Billy Joel songs became the score
• Why the story isn't told in order

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

How did the filmmakers get Billy Joel to open up?

Jessica Levin says Susan Lacy, who did Billy's interviews, began with what they had in common: his family's story in Nazi Germany, and classical music, since Susan's mother was a concert pianist. Billy started every session at the piano, his "security blanket." After one early interview he told Susan, "Boy, you go deep," and she told him he'd have to go deep too if they were going to make the film they set out to make.

Did Billy Joel have editorial control over And So It Goes?

No. Jessica Levin says Billy and his camp had no editorial control. Executive producer Steve Cohen, Billy's longtime creative director, told him before he signed on that this was an independent film and he would not control the story. When Susan Lacy asked Billy about sensitive areas, he told her, "Susan, tell the truth." Jessica says that became their guiding light, along with one rule: every road leads back to the music.

Who is Elizabeth Weber?

Elizabeth Weber was Billy Joel's first wife and his manager. Jessica Levin says she was married to Billy's bandmate and friend, John Small, when she and Billy fell in love, which was heartbreaking for all three of them. Many of Billy's early songs are about their relationship. After they split, she moved to California and didn't speak to the Billy Joel organization for four decades, so her interview in the film was groundbreaking for fans.

What music is used in Billy Joel: And So It Goes?

Only Billy Joel's. Jessica Levin says the film uses more than 110 of his songs, out of a catalog she puts at about 121, along with unreleased outtakes. At Susan Lacy's suggestion, two musicians from his band made new arrangements, including an orchestral Vienna and a solo violin version of The Stranger. An audio companion album, Steve Cohen's idea, is available digitally.

DOCUVIEW DEJA VIEW PICK

• The Andy Warhol Diaries (2022), Andrew Rossi's Netflix docuseries. Jessica's pick, because it gets beneath the surface of a complicated artist and each chapter builds on the last.

See every guest pick on the DocuView Deja View page.

SPONSORED BY VIRGIL FILMS ENTERTAINMENT

Virgil Films has more than 25 years of experience in film distribution and works directly with filmmakers and streaming platforms. Learn more at virgilfilms.com.

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ABOUT THE GUEST

Jessica Levin is an Emmy and Peabody Award-winning producer and one of the principal producers at Pentimento Productions. With Susan Lacy she made the American Masters films Joni Mitchell: Woman of Heart and Mind, Judy Garland: By Myself, No Direction Home: Bob Dylan, Annie Leibovitz: Life Through a Lens, LENNONYC and Inventing David Geffen. At Pentimento she produced Spielberg, Jane Fonda in Five Acts, Very Ralph and The Janes for HBO Documentary Films, and she co-directed and produced Billy Joel: And So It Goes, which opened the 2025 Tribeca Festival and aired on HBO in July 2025. She is based in Los Angeles. Pentimento Productions | Instagram | IMDb

ABOUT DOCUMENTARY FIRST

Documentary First is a weekly podcast about the people behind documentaries and how the work changed them. Host Christian Taylor, director of the award-winning The Girl Who Wore Freedom, talks with filmmakers, distributors, entertainment lawyers, actors and more, from Ken Burns and PBS American Masters creator Susan Lacy to first-timers, across nearly 300 conversations. Each week brings one of two formats: a long-form conversation with the people behind films for HBO, Netflix, PBS and independent film, or The Deep Dive, where Christian takes one insight from a recent conversation and follows it wherever it leads. Listen Notes ranks the show in the top 5% of all podcasts worldwide. New episodes every week.

RESOURCES MENTIONED

• Billy Joel: And So It Goes at the Tribeca Festival
• Co-director Susan Lacy on Documentary First: Episode 266