Self-Distribute or Sign? A Distributor's Answer, Part 1
Om avsnittet
How did a man who once told Netflix nobody would watch movies on a computer end up running a company known as "the documentary people"?
Film distribution is the part of filmmaking nobody teaches you. When your film is finished, you can sign with a distributor, sell your rights piece by piece, or do it all yourself. Joe Amodei has spent about 40 years in the business, and he walks through what each choice really means.
In Episode 216, Christian sits down with Joe Amodei of Virgil Films, with co-host Jason Rugg off for the day. Joe started Virgil 20 years ago, after working at home entertainment companies for Ted Turner and Barry Diller. One of his first acquisitions was a little documentary called Super Size Me, and it turned a very small company into one everybody in the industry knew. He also tells the story of a phone call from his friend Ted Sarandos, who asked for 100 DVDs for something called streaming.
Christian names the fear a lot of filmmakers carry right now: they don't trust distributors, it's hard to vet the ones making offers, and there's a big push to self-distribute. Joe doesn't dodge it. He says Hollywood has a long history of not paying people, and he lays out what self-distribution really costs. Christian adds her own view: if you self-distribute, you're no longer a filmmaker, you've become a business person. It's part of why she has Joe on the show. The more people get to know that a distributor is a real person, the better. They close with Joe's DocuView Deja View pick, and a surprise: George Stevens filmed in Carentan, the town at the center of Christian's next film.
In this episode, you'll learn:
- Which rights a film distributor buys, from streaming to cruise ships
- How Super Size Me turned Virgil into "the documentary people"
- The Netflix phone call, and what Blockbuster missed
- How to pitch your film to Virgil
- Why Joe doesn't believe aggregators will replace distributors
- Why so many Sundance films arrive already sold
- Why buyers don't trust festival standing ovations
- What a film market screening costs and what you get for it
- What self-distribution really costs, in money and in time
- Where George Stevens filmed after Normandy
CHAPTERS
0:00 Selling Every Right
6:11 The Netflix Phone Call
13:57 Will Aggregators Replace Distributors?
16:24 Already Sold at Sundance
19:37 Buying a Market Screening
22:49 Should You Self-Distribute?
27:52 Finding Honest Partners
31:09 George Stevens' War Footage
FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
What rights does a film distributor buy?
Joe Amodei of Virgil Films told Documentary First in 2024 that a traditional distributor negotiates for the rights to put a film on digital platforms, sell it to TV channels, release it on DVD and in theaters, and sell it to the educational market, cruise ships, airlines and international buyers. A filmmaker can sell those rights to five or six different companies, or choose one distributor that handles them all.
Will aggregators replace film distributors?
Joe Amodei of Virgil Films told Documentary First in 2024 that he doesn't agree at all. Aggregators have always existed, he says, holding dozens of films that are often not bankable. A buyer doesn't want to scroll through 40 or 50 titles with no one promoting them. Meetings where someone actually discusses the film will always be the best way, which is why Joe still walks into Netflix, Hulu, Apple and Amazon in person.
Should you self-distribute your documentary?
Joe Amodei of Virgil Films told Documentary First in 2024 that platforms like Amazon and iTunes will offer you a split nowhere near as favorable as a distributor gets, and you'll be on the hook for everything, including delivery. Costs can run higher too: one filmmaker told him she pays $2 a DVD, where he believes Virgil pays 90 cents. Christian Taylor adds that if you self-distribute, you've changed jobs.
How much does it cost to screen a film at a film market?
Joe Amodei of Virgil Films told Documentary First in 2024 that you submit your film to the market, and they say yes because they want films. He believed two screenings cost somewhere around $1,200, and one about $700. That gets you a listing in the market's book, on its website and on Cinando. He has done it with two films: one went nowhere, and the other landed a distributor in France.
Are the films at Sundance already sold?
Christian Taylor told Documentary First listeners in 2024 that it can seem that way. Joe Amodei of Virgil Films explained that Sundance is a public festival that lives on ticket sales, so a hot film from a streamer sells out screenings, while buyers go to separate industry screenings. Festival crowds are biased, he says, often with the cast in the room, so a standing ovation tells a buyer little about the box office.
DocuView Deja View Picks
Joe Amodei: George Stevens: A Filmmaker's Journey, directed by George Stevens Jr.
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About the Guest
Joe Amodei is the founder and CEO of Virgil Films and Entertainment, which marked its 20th anniversary in October 2023. He has been in the business since about 1985, starting at a video store, and worked for Ted Turner's home entertainment division and Barry Diller's USA Home Entertainment. Virgil's releases include Super Size Me and Restrepo, and Joe believes it was the second company to give Netflix films for streaming.
Virgil Films | Instagram | X Joe invites filmmakers to reach him directly at [email protected].
About Virgil Films
Virgil Films and Entertainment is a traditional distribution company founded by Joe Amodei. It acquires the rights to documentaries and independent films and places them on digital platforms, TV, DVD, in theaters and with international buyers. Its releases include Super Size Me, Restrepo, Forks Over Knives and I Am Chris Farley, and it distributes Christian's film The Girl Who Wore Freedom. Full disclosure: Virgil Films distributes The Girl Who Wore Freedom and now sponsors Documentary First. This episode has no sponsor read.
About Documentary First
Documentary First is a weekly podcast about the people behind documentaries and how the work changed them. Host Christian Taylor, director of the award-winning The Girl Who Wore Freedom, talks with filmmakers, distributors, entertainment lawyers, actors and more, from Ken Burns and PBS American Masters creator Susan Lacy to first-timers, across nearly 300 conversations. Each week brings one of two formats: a long-form conversation with the people behind films for HBO, Netflix, PBS and independent film, or The Deep Dive, where Christian takes one insight from a recent conversation and follows it wherever it leads. Listen Notes ranks the show in the top 5% of all podcasts worldwide. New episodes every week.
Resources Mentioned
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