Ken Burns: Making the Past Come Alive | The American Buffalo

Why does Ken Burns record the music first, before the editing starts?

Ken Burns says the music on his films comes first. For The Civil War, he went through hymnals and songbooks of the period, had musicians play each tune 10, 15, 20 different ways, and then edited the words to fit the musical phrase, instead of scoring a locked picture to "amplify emotions you hope are there." Every song in that series but one came from the period; the exception, Ashokan Farewell, was written by Jay Ungar. For The Vietnam War, his team went to The Beatles first, and once The Beatles said yes, the other artists followed.

In Episode 209, the second of two parts, Jason Rugg and Christian Taylor pick up with Ken Burns where Part 1 left off. Ken talks about his longtime collaborators, writer and producer Dayton Duncan and producer Julie Dunfey, both of them retiring (PBS calls The American Buffalo the three collaborators' final film), and why his team, on films he says are "handmade by about 18 people," never stops researching or writing. "Anytime you see a talking head in our film, it's just a happy accident," he says. Christian raises her own worry that music in church can feel like manipulation. Ken takes exception: when it's authentic, he says, music is "the most powerful and the quickest art form."

Then they get to sound and voices. Ken films an old photograph the way a feature filmmaker films a scene, with a master shot, a close-up, a tilt, a pan and a reveal, and he listens to it too: are the troops tramping, is the bat cracking, is the crowd cheering? He says the Battle of Gettysburg in The Civil War carried 160 tracks of sound. Christian, who says his fingerprints are all over The Girl Who Wore Freedom, tells him she set out to make "a Ken Burns documentary." Ken tells her, "There's no copyright on technique," and, "In order for something to be authentic, it has to be you." He credits Perry Miller Adato's film about Gertrude Stein with showing him he only needed to hear first-person voices, not see the actors. Later Christian tells him she hoped Peter Coyote would narrate her film, and ended up recording the narration herself when the money and the time ran out; Ken says he is the scratch narrator on his own films.

WATCH THE FILM

The American Buffalo is streaming on PBS

In this episode, you'll learn:

• Why Ken's team never stops researching or writing
• Why every talking head in a Ken Burns film is "a happy accident"
• How The Beatles opened the door to the music of The Vietnam War
• Whether music in film, or in church, is manipulation
• How Ken uses sound effects to bring still photographs to life
• What Peter Coyote asks Ken when a take isn't working
• What a Gertrude Stein documentary taught Ken about first-person voices

CHAPTERS

0:00 The Team Behind Ken Burns

6:33 Recording the Music First

8:51 Beatles Songs in The Vietnam War

11:56 The Sound of Still Photographs

15:18 No Copyright on Technique

19:13 Night Mail to Hollow Tree

22:01 Christian's Pick: The Roosevelts

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

Why does Ken Burns record the music before editing his documentaries?

Burns says his team records the music first so it sets the pace and rhythm of the edit, instead of adding a score at the end "to amplify emotions you hope are there." For The Civil War, musicians played period hymns, popular songs and anthems many different ways to create musical beds, and the editors fit the narration to the musical phrase.

How does Ken Burns bring old photographs to life?

Burns treats an old photograph the way a feature filmmaker treats a scene, with a master shot, close-ups, tilts, pans, reveals and inserts of detail. He also listens to it, adding sound for marching troops, cannon fire or a cracking bat, because a photograph is an arrested moment that had a past and a future. He says the Battle of Gettysburg in The Civil War used 160 tracks of sound.

Who made The American Buffalo with Ken Burns?

The American Buffalo was directed by Ken Burns, written by Dayton Duncan, and produced by Julie Dunfey and Burns, with Peter Coyote narrating. Duncan has worked with Burns for more than 30 years, on films including The West, Lewis and Clark, The National Parks, The Dust Bowl and Country Music. PBS describes The American Buffalo as the final film the three made as collaborators.

What documentaries does Ken Burns recommend?

Asked for one recommendation on Documentary First, Burns chose two. The first is Night Mail (1936), a short British film about the overnight mail train from London to Scotland, which he first saw at Hampshire College and calls "a perfect film." The second is Hollow Tree, Kira Akerman's documentary about three young women in Louisiana coming to terms with climate change, which Ken gave notes on as it was made.

DOCUVIEW DÉJÀ VU PICKS

Ken's picks: Night Mail (1936), the GPO Film Unit short directed by Harry Watt and Basil Wright, which Ken remembers as John Grierson's film, and Hollow Tree (2022), directed by Kira Akerman.

Christian's pick: The Roosevelts: An Intimate History, by Ken Burns.

LISTEN AND FOLLOW

Listen and subscribe wherever you get podcasts: https://pod.fo/e/4a7fff

Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@documentaryfirst

SUPPORT THE SHOW

Rate us, share an episode, or get our free guides: https://documentaryfirst.com/pages/support

CONNECT WITH DOCUMENTARY FIRST

All platforms: https://linktr.ee/doc1st

Christian Taylor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meetchristiantaylor

ABOUT THE GUEST

Ken Burns

Documentary Filmmaker

Ken Burns was born in Brooklyn in 1953 and has been making documentaries since Brooklyn Bridge, made in 1981 and nominated for an Academy Award. His films for PBS include The Civil War, Baseball, Jazz, The War, The National Parks: America's Best Idea, Prohibition, The Roosevelts: An Intimate History, The Vietnam War, Country Music, The U.S. and the Holocaust and The American Buffalo. He has lived and worked in a small town in New Hampshire for more than four decades.

Website

Facebook

X

YouTube

ABOUT DOCUMENTARY FIRST

Documentary First is a weekly podcast about the people behind documentaries and how the work changed them. Host Christian Taylor, director of the award-winning The Girl Who Wore Freedom, talks with filmmakers, distributors, entertainment lawyers, actors and more, from Ken Burns and PBS American Masters creator Susan Lacy to first-timers, across nearly 300 conversations. Each week brings one of two formats: a long-form conversation with the people behind films for HBO, Netflix, PBS and independent film, or The Deep Dive, where Christian takes one insight from a recent conversation and follows it wherever it leads. Listen Notes ranks the show in the top 5% of all podcasts worldwide. New episodes every week.

THE KEN BURNS EPISODES

• Part 1 of this conversation, on his mother, emotional archaeology and The American Buffalo
• Related: Episode 239, Sarah Burns and David McMahon on Leonardo da Vinci, their PBS film with Ken Burns
• Related: Episode 274, Erik and Chris Ewers on Ken Burns, PBS and Thoreau
• Related: Episode 275, Part 2 with Erik and Chris Ewers, on PBS funding and directing George Clooney, Jeff Goldblum and Meryl Streep

RESOURCES MENTIONED

• Ken Burns UNUM, including a conversation with Ken Burns, Dayton Duncan and Julie Dunfey about their final film as collaborators
• The Roosevelts: An Intimate History
• Night Mail (1936)
• Hollow Tree (2022)