What to Do Instead of Zone 2 | Mike Joyner, Mayo Clinic

If you’re a serious recreational athlete but you have a job and a life, and only five hours a week to train — what should you be doing? This week, Stu and Marty provide the answer with the help of one of the world’s foremost experts on aerobic conditioning and the limits of human performance, Dr. Michael Joyner of the Mayo Clinic.

Dr. Joyner is a legend of the exercise science field and an elite runner himself, who back in 1991 conducted the first analysis establishing the physiologic possibility of a sub-two-hour marathon. Since our conversation with Joyner happened to fall just days after Sabastian Sawe achieved the first official sub-2:00 marathon times earlier this spring, the conversation begins with a discussion of Joyner’s 1991 analysis.

Then Marty and Stu challenge Joyner to get specific about what amateur athletes should be doing, if they want to achieve the best possible aerobic fitness for health. How much vigorous training should we all be doing, relative to moderate- and low-intensity training? Plus a listener question asking how to know when you’re training too much.

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SHOW LINKS

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EPISODE LINKS

Two runners break fabled two hour marathon barrier. Friend of Exercise Science Alex Hutchinson wrote about it for The Atlantic. 

Joyner’s famous 2011 article: The Two Hour Marathon: Who and When?

Mike Joyner’s 1991 paper that is a staple in Marty’s Integrative Physiology class: Modeling: optimal marathon performance on the basis of physiological factors. PubMed. Full PDF. 

Dr. Michael Joyner’s website — been awhile since he updated it but fascinating nonetheless

Andy Jones’ paper referenced by Joyner: The fourth dimension: physiological resilience as an independent determinant of endurance exercise performance - The Journal of Physiology

Adaptations to swimming training: influence of training volume - Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise

Physiological demands of running at 2-hour marathon race pace - Journal of Applied Physiology

A Perspective on High-Intensity Interval Training for Performance and Health - Sports Med

The “How They Train” series by Fred Wilt

DISCUSSION POINTS

00:00 Intro

02:44 Welcoming Dr. Michael Joyner

03:45 Joyner reacts to 2:00

04:47 Who is Joyner?

06:18 Marathon predictions

11:13 Joyner prediction reception

13:03 Performance determinants

15:51 Other performance determinants

18:59 Elite characteristics

20:50 How elite is elite

22:03 Joyner on Zone 2

26:55 Joyner’s training haiku

29:30 Optimal intensities

30:40 Long intervals key

32:22 Is 80/20 wasting time?

33:43 Resistance training

35:00 Do SOMETHING

36:51 Zone 2 too low

38:51 Vigorous benefits

40:37 What Joyner does

42:35 More haikus

43:59 Listener question

46:52 Wrap up

DISCLAIMER

The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show.

Martin Gibala is an advisor to and holds equity in Longevity League Ltd., a US-based company whose services in part relate to exercise.