38. The Limits of Complexity (w/ Bonnitta Roy)

Bonnitta Roy and I explore the meaning of complexification and the evolutionary narrative. After some introductory context on Bonnie's prior engagement in the "scene" of integrative metatheory, we find our way to the topic of teleology (i.e., the apparent goal-directedness of nature). From there Bonnie outlines some of the pivotal mutations in the evolutionary narrative that have increased organism's capacity for abstraction. We discuss whether the directionality of these processes is captured in models of hierarchical complexity, or if other sorts of maps are needed to appreciate the evolution of mind.

0:00 Introduction

1:37 Bonnie's Background in Integrative Metatheory

12:30 On Integral vs. Metamodern: Problems with Stage Theories

17:53 On (Apparent) Teleology

21:00 The Story of Pivotal Mutations Up the Evolutionary Stack

31:22 Teleology* towards Increasing Causal Power

41:09 Getting Beyond Thoughts: Pure Abstractions vs. Categorical Abstractions

45:30 Information and Pure Abstractions: Direct Perception of the Causal Manifold

49:55 Is Increasing Hierarchical Complexity Getting Closer to the Causal Manifold?

1:03:27 Complexification as Recursively Finding New Vantage Points

1:12:38 Increasing Degrees of Freedom without Increasing Complexity?

1:15:22 Intimations and Afterthoughts: Directions for Further Discussion