Ep #14: Patrick Lewis (Klay): Founding Designer x4, and the Art of Saying No

Tom and Jonny sit down with Patrick Lewis, founding designer at Klay. They dig into why "good" and "right" aren't the same thing, how AI has flattened the design experience curve, the pun-named playground he built to prototype without baggage, and why saying no might be the most important design skill right now.

Chapters
0:04 — Meet Patrick Lewis, founding designer at Klay
1:05 — Building Clay: an AI music app made by musicians, not sales bros
2:27 — Content still has to resonate with humans, AI-generated or not
6:27 — Consistency builds trust: designing believable AI video avatars
10:16 — Figma bulls and bears: Jonny's rebuy vs. Patrick's near-total exit
12:37 — Where Figma still earns its place: branding and early sketches
13:42 — Founding designer for the fourth time: getting context fast with AI
16:51 — Building a pun-named playground to prototype without baggage
19:17 — Layoffs, flattened experience curves, and adopt-or-die
27:09 — Knowing yourself, saying no, and the founding designer's tightrope
36:44 — Capacity has grown, but so has the pressure to do it all
39:23 — Quickfire: chairs over AGI, decision-making he won't outsource, and granola

Patrick Lewis — https://patrickjlewis.com

Tools and products discussed
Figma — https://www.figma.com
Claude — https://claude.ai
ChatGPT — https://chatgpt.com
GitHub — https://github.com
Kit (newsletter platform) — https://kit.com
Granola — https://www.granola.ai

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