Philokalia Ministries is the fruit of 30 years spent at the feet of the Fathers of the Church. Led by Father David Abernethy, a member of the Oratory of Saint Philip Neri since 1987, Philokalia (Philo: Love of the Kalia: Beautiful) Ministries exists to re-form hearts and minds according to the mold of the Desert Fathers through the ascetic life, the example of the early Saints, the way of stillness, prayer, and purity of heart, the practice of the Jesus Prayer, and spiritual reading. Those who are involved in Philokalia Ministries – the podcasts, videos, social media posts, spiritual direction and online groups – are exposed to writings that make up the ancient, shared spiritual heritage of East and West: The Ladder of Divine Ascent, Saint Augustine, the Philokalia, the Conferences of Saint John Cassian (a favorite of Saint Philip Neri, the founder of the Oratory), the Ascetical Homilies of Saint Isaac the Syrian, and the Evergetinos. In addition to these, more recent authors and writings, which draw deeply from the well of the desert, are read and discussed: Lorenzo Scupoli, Saint Theophan the Recluse, anonymous writings from Mount Athos, the Cloud of Unknowing, Saint John of the Cross, Thomas a Kempis, and many more. Philokalia Ministries is offered to all, free of charge. However, there are real and immediate needs associated with it. You can support Philokalia Ministries with one-time, or recurring monthly donations, which are most appreciated. Your support truly makes this ministry possible. May Almighty God, who created you and fashioned you in His own Divine Image, restore you through His grace and make of you a true icon of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Orthodoxy and Orthopraxis (right belief and right practice) are intimately tied together. All of the fathers and, in particular, Saint Isaac the Syrian want us to understand that our perception of revelation, who God is to us and what we have become in his Son through the Paschal mystery, and how we live our life are inseparable. God has revealed himself to us in a unique and distinctive fashion, and has made known to us our dignity and destiny in Christ. Therefore, having a clear understanding of our human nature, the sickness of sin and the passions that follow and the healing that takes place through Grace is imperative.
Isaac pushes us to understand that virtue is the natural health of the soul and the passions are an illness of the soul that follow and invade our nature and despoil its proper health. One can see how essential this is when looking at our life in this world and the struggles of the spiritual life. We can attribute sin and the hold that passions have upon us simply to human nature. However, when we do this, we lose sight of the fact that we have been created in the image and likeness of God and that sin is antecedent to that reality. We have been created for love and to manifest this love through virtue.
A faulty or incomplete understanding of human anthropology and psychology, has often been the pretext that the Evil One uses to distort our vision to the point that we willingly embrace that which enslaves us. To understand that we have been created good, conversely, establishes a firm desire within the human heart for that which is of God. It also establishes confidence and hope in the grace of God who tells us precisely that he has come not to judge the world but to save it!
One of the beautiful things that the desert fathers would have us understand is that Christ is the divine physician who has come to heal us. He is the Good Samaritan from the gospel who takes our burden upon himself in order that we might be nursed to the fullness of health. Again, if Isaac makes us work to understand this, we must see it as a labor of love. To grasp these truths allows us to give free expression to our desire for God and to run towards Him with the freedom of those aided by His Grace.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:01:52 Fr. Charbel Abernethy: Page 128 paragraph 6
00:10:40 Anthony: I just read that there is a "Holy Transfiguration East" in Burnsville, NC.
00:11:43 Anthony: Gotcha thanks
00:26:20 Joshua Sander: I've missed the last couple of weeks, and so you may have already explained this, but when Isaac uses the term "passions," what exactly does he mean? I've heard the term used roughly in the sense of "emotions" (i.e. anger, sadness, etc.), but does Isaac mean it more in the sense of "temptations"? I think you may have just explained this now, but in that case, could you briefly restate this?
00:30:04 Suzanne Romano: Does Isaac distinguish between original nature and fallen nature?
00:33:15 David: I found this helpful from Fr. Maximos- So, we have five stages in the evolution of a logismos,” he concluded, spreading out the five fingers of his right hand. “Assault, interaction, consent, captivity/defeat, and passion/obsession. These are more or less all the stages. While they use the same word in translation it helped me to realize the different stages in context.
00:37:23 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "I found this helpful..." with 👍
00:37:39 Julie: Reacted to "I found this helpful…" with 👍
00:45:53 wayne: late to evening..what page?
00:46:03 Ben: Replying to "late to evening..wha..."
130
00:46:04 Catherine Opie: 130
00:46:08 Catherine Opie: Top
00:46:20 wayne: thnx
00:58:59 Anthony: I'm reading Fr John Custer's book on the Epistles. He is a priest in Eparchy of Passaic. His description of St Paul in Romans (what I would do, I do not...) is like Isaac here about natural virtue vs foreign passions.
00:59:09 Eleana: I believe Mary was made to give to the divine flesh, and to the flesh to become divine; to break the passion's hold since men's desire is not enough. Nicodemus asked how we born again? Our Lady!
01:01:02 Ren Witter: Going to throw this out there for anyone who is as confused as I am 🤣. Is Isaac saying that, though the Passions are not natural, they are given to us by God? Even though they are a sickness?
01:03:43 Ren Witter: What would be an example of one of the passions of the soul, given to us for our benefit, by God?
01:09:07 Catherine Opie: Sorry cant raise hand. So Fr., it is like this? For example: We have hunger to tell us we need to eat. This is a natural bodily desire that is beneficial. However, the soul needs to be in control of this and able to acknowledge this desire to eat and allay it to the appropriate time to do this, also to have faith and trust in that food will be provided so there is no need to panic about it, i.e. fear of starvation leading us to grab the food, eat more food than is necessary, steal the food or even attack someone else to desperately obtain food to quiet the fear of hunger? Otherwise we are driven by base bodily functions and raw passions? Therefore we learn to practice the virtue of temperance.
01:15:14 Jeffrey Ott: My family and I are getting chrismated this Sunday at our Ukranian church here in Oregon. Please pray for us!
01:15:16 Catherine Opie: Amen. Deo gratiats
01:15:24 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you☺️
01:15:25 David: Thank you Father may God bless you!
01:15:28 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you Father!
01:15:29 Catherine Opie: Reacted to "Thank you Father!" with ❤️
The loss of the spirit of contrition can take place whenever our hearts become hardened; when we grow sluggish in the spiritual life or our attention shifts off of our own sin and need for God‘s mercy and is redirected towards the things of the world or to the sins of others. The desert fathers pull back the veil on the human heart and reveal the motivation for our actions and thoughts. We often become very skilled at satisfying our morbid delight for seeing others weaknesses and their natural flaws and defects. Rather than keeping our focus upon contrition for our own sins and seeking purity of heart, we become preoccupied with our neighbor; judging them, becoming frustrated and irritated with them, pushing our opinions upon them, becoming upset when we do not receive what we believe we deserve or when we feel that we have been misjudged and slandered. Rather than having an eye for the needs of the other and instead of being tender and gentle in our attitude, we often see others as an obstacle to our happiness or our freedom. When we could be a source of peace and healing we become rough to the point that our interactions with others is akin to rubbing up against sandpaper. Those closest to us often elude us. Sometimes we do not know what to give and even what we do give may not be helpful or wanted. But we can still love them - we can love them completely. A human being is not someone we are called to fix, correct or judge, but rather one we are called to embrace with the same love and to offer the same consolation as we have received from Christ.
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00:14:14 Bob Čihák, AZ: P. 245 first paragraph on this page
00:14:24 Janine: Suzanne..that sounds awful…I will pray for you!
00:14:41 Suzanne Romano: Thank you Janine!!!!
00:37:10 Catherine Opie: This is like being a parent as well
00:56:21 Lindsey Funair: thank you, that helps a lot
00:56:35 Bob Čihák, AZ: An invitation to be nosey? When an acquaintance once said something about a third person like "Yes, I know why he left that job but I'm not going to say why" it sounded like an invitation to get nosey, so I simply didn't respond at all, and went on my way.
00:57:44 Joseph: St. Maximos the Confessor writes, “Cut off the passions, and you will soon silence the senses. Restrain the senses, and you will easily calm the passions.” The goal of ascetic struggle, through repentance and bodily hardship, is not to reject the senses, but to purify them. The senses are not the cause of sin; rather, sin arises from the passionate response to the representations that the senses convey. The desert (silence) is a means of purification, to restore our noetic vision to health, so we can perceive sense data, sight, sound, touch, etc., without passion. This is the what we aim for anyway!
00:58:35 Joseph: From Second Century on Love, 2.15
01:03:34 Myles Davidson: The Litany of Humility springs to mind
From the desire of being approved,
Deliver me, O Jesus.
From the fear of being humiliated,
Deliver me, O Jesus.
From the fear of being despised,
Deliver me, O Jesus.
et. al
01:06:35 Catherine Opie: St Teresa of Avila would say that anyone who slandered her was probably right. That really struck me when I read it. Because it is really the antithesis of what I was brought up to believe.
01:06:37 Myles Davidson: Rafael Cardinal Merry del Val y Zulueta
01:06:41 Lorraine Green: Marie del val
01:14:08 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you☺️
01:14:26 Catherine Opie: Thank you Fr. God bless.
01:14:31 Julie: God bless
01:14:34 Lindsey Funair: thank you!
01:14:37 Suzanne Romano: Pax!
01:14:37 Lorraine Green: God bless
Upon reading the beginning of this homily, one clearly gets the sense that Saint Isaac the Syrian wants our understanding of the spiritual life, who we are as human beings, and a relationship with God (who has created us in His image and likeness), to be set on a foundation that is unshakable. One must love Isaac for the effort! He is giving us eyes to see.
He began by presenting us with an image of a soul who truly abides in her nature, and so comes to penetrate into and understand the wisdom of God. Knowing nothing of the impediment of the passions, the soul is lifted up toward God and is astonished and struck with wonder. This is Isaac’s starting point for a reason. He wants us to regain what over the course of time has been lost; that is, our perception the beauty and wonder of how God has created us and our natural capacity for love and virtue. Furthermore, it is not just about perception but the experience of being God bearers and temples of the Holy Spirit. It is about our deification.
What has distorted or understanding is the emergence of the passions and how we have come to view them. Isaac tells us categorically that the soul by nature is passionless. We are created in God‘s image and likeness and it is only the emergence of sin that has darken that which was created to be filled with light. Thus, when a soul is moved in a passionate way, she is outside her nature. The passions have the ability to move the soul after the fall. There’s a radical communion between body and soul and with sin our experience of the world through the senses and in our desires and appetites become distorted. The break of communion with God leads to an internal break within us as human beings; a fragmentation on the deepest level of our existence. What is the nature of a soul created for communion when it pursues autonomy from the one who created her in love? Is it not only the loss of unity with God but within ourselves and our capacity to experience and reflect our true dignity?
Saint Isaac makes us work in these paragraphs and grapple to understand what he’s saying. Yet, it is a labor of love; for it is upon the foundation of this understanding of our nature that we will once again be able to see the wonder and beauty of how God has created us and experience the healing necessary to reflect this wondrous reality to the world.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:17:20 Bob Čihák, AZ: P. 127, paragraph 1
00:31:07 Lindsey Funair: When I hear the memories of the soul grow old, it reminds me that the soul knows not ego or attachment, it remembers only what is worthy of taking to Paradise, only that that is in Love. That is all there is once the world and self-love and other things that are not Love, is filtered from our memory.
00:31:13 Anthony: It's important to say that Isaac was born into a time and geography of turmoil and he wasn't living in comfort locked away from the outside.
00:31:43 Maureen Cunningham: Washington Carfer
00:31:52 Maureen Cunningham: Carver
00:33:02 Troyce Garrett Quimpo: This sections reminds me of St John of the Cross's Purgative Way.
00:36:11 Anthony: George Washington Carver
00:36:20 Vanessa: famous Black inventer
00:40:08 Maureen Cunningham: Yes George Washington Carver thank you , a little book I read . A Man who talked to flowers.
00:40:34 Anthony: I think when Isaac refers to philosophers he might have in mind the humors that dominate a man or the astrologers who Forcast about a person.
00:42:08 Lindsey Funair: it helps me to think of passions in this sense of Maslow's entire hierarchy, those things which are necessary to life and living and connecting with others and doing good, but when focused on directly become a distraction from the humility and obedience which place us "in" our soul and in relative connection to God
00:42:08 Manuel: How this idea that the soul is passionless by nature fit in with the opening of the Philokalia “There is among the passions an anger of the intellect, and this anger is in accordance with nature. Without anger a man cannot attain purity”?
00:44:25 Vanessa: When I went to university, I always thought the academics disciplines were centered around "explaining the world without God."
00:44:51 Anthony: I wrote it
00:44:56 Kathy Locher: What in our nature would have made us susceptible to temptation. Especially, given that we were living in Eden in God’s company?
00:45:31 Ryan N: Father what would your response be to those who emphasize the importance of the body because it is equally made in the image and likeness of God ( not just the soul)
00:46:35 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "What in our nature w..." with 👍
00:48:25 Lindsey Funair: It is a context for personhood
00:59:59 Lindsey Funair: the body feels first the pain then looks for purpose, where the soul honors the purpose by bearing the pain. vain suffering, suffering without purpose, is not of the soul and is rejected by it rightfully.
01:01:26 David: I notice more and more people respond - that is the way I am . Usually with a passion a mentor once responded but if you could see who you could become. It almost seems like many use that is the way I am as an excuse to embrace sin.
01:02:11 Catherine Opie: Reacted to "I notice more and mo..." with 👍🏻
01:04:30 Vanessa: Reacted to "I notice more and mo..." with 👍
01:04:58 Alex Underwood: It is my understanding that there’s no word for “consciousness” in the Old Testament.. is it right to say that The Christ, as this representation of the revealed consciousness of God, brings us into an understanding of the un-consciousness of The Father.. this “invisibility” that Isaac speaks of?
01:06:42 Una: What's the book again?
01:06:50 Myles Davidson: https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B09M4CQL1H?ref_=mr_referred_us_au_nz
01:06:53 Lindsey Funair: What then is the meaning of writing a name on the heart?
01:07:11 Una: Thank you
01:07:15 Myles Davidson: Replying to "What's the book agai..."
Essential reading!
01:07:28 Una: Dr. Raymond Richmond in San Francisco gets close to this idea
01:07:41 Una: Chastity in San Francisco? is his site
01:08:04 David: A Beginner's Introduction to the Philokalia, 2016: Anthony M. Coniaris: 9781880971796: Amazon.com: Books
01:08:17 Catherine Opie: Reacted to "https://www.amazon.c..." with 🙏🏻
01:08:30 David: Only available through kindle
01:10:33 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "https://zoboko.com/b..." with 👍
01:13:47 Max Horcher: Reacted to "https://zoboko.com..." with 👍
01:14:53 Catherine Opie: Don't download that PDF version it seems to be a malicious site
01:14:58 Catherine Opie: Sorry
01:16:05 David: I found a good definition of Nous (eye of the soul) or heart.In this belief, soul is created in the image of God. Since God is Trinitarian, Mankind is Nous, Word and Spirit. The same is held true of the soul (or heart): it has nous, word and spirit. To understand this better first an understanding of St. Gregory Palamas's teaching that man is a representation of the trinitarian mystery should be addressed.
01:17:41 Wayne: Reacted to "I found a good defin..." with 👍
01:19:44 Max Horcher: Replying to "Don't download tha..."
I did, and it seems fine to me, but YMMV. I also have AdblockPlus and UBlockOrigin running; might be problematic without adblockers.
The EPUB to PDF converter site isn't English, but it worked as advertised.
01:20:38 Alex Underwood: Excellent insight, thank you father
01:21:13 Catherine Opie: I'm really finding this very transformational thank you Fr.
01:21:28 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: The Deification of Man - a book by a Romanian Orthodox writer of the last century
01:22:28 Maureen Cunningham: Thank you Blessing to all and many prayer for Father
01:22:28 Andrew Adams: Thanks be to God! Thank you, Father!
01:22:29 David: Thank you very much Father. May God bless you and your mother
01:22:32 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
01:22:34 Art: Thank you!!
01:22:45 Catherine Opie: Thanks be to God. No way!
01:22:45 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you! A presto!
01:22:45 Alex Underwood: lol
01:22:59 Lee Graham: Thank you, have a great week
01:23:01 Lindsey Funair: thank you, Father
At the end of many of these groups, my only thought is that the beauty of the writings of the fathers is exquisite. Often when reading them one is both pierced to the heart, but also raised up and consoled. This is surprisingly so in this hypothesis on contrition. None of the fathers’ writings appear to be an abstraction, but rather their words reverberate with the pain and the love of
those who experienced the struggle with sin.
One comes to know not only the weight and burden of sin, but a kind of otherworldly darkness to which it drags the soul. A soul begins to understand how the demons act as accusers; seeking to cast it down into the depths of despair after having coaxed it into sin.
There are two kinds of contrition with which we must become familiar. The first is rooted in fear; the acknowledgment of the coming judgment and the consequences of turning away from God. The soul becomes painfully aware of what it is to turn away from He who is light and life. The second kind of contrition, however, arises out of desire for the kingdom. Once a soul has tasted the sweetness of God‘s compassion they weep tears over any way that they turn from the depths of that Love. That are hearts would be watered with this kind of contrition is an extraordinary gift!
To see contrition as a gift is admittedly difficult. Yet in reading the fathers one comes to see that it is not only the prerequisite for the spiritual life, but also the path that opens one up to the deepest consolation. To see ourselves as we truly are, to stand in the light of the truth, may be extremely painful, but that light comes from the Physician of souls, who in the very act of revealing our sins removes them.
It is then with freedom that the soul can entrust itself to God to chastise it; knowing that “a broken and contrite heart the Lord will not scorn”. Every breath becomes a groan; a cry of love that is united to the groan of the Spirit that dwells within the human heart. The humbled soul is then elevated, exalted, to God who embraces his prodigal child and rejoices. This bitter path then is the path to true joy. And taking it, the soul loses interest in anything else around him; most of all the actions of others or their sins. He will judge no man, knowing that he himself will soon stand before the Judge of all.
Imagine hearts that take up the burden of their own sins, that do not say so much as a word on their own behalf and that confess what they have done and accept that whatever comes to them is just and fitting for it comes from the hand of the Lord!
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:13:35 Myles Davidson: https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/9068317091?ref_=mr_referred_us_au_nz
00:18:08 Anthony: I knew it! Jazz music. :)
00:23:24 Bob Čihák, AZ: P. 241 A paragraph starting “For many….”
00:23:45 Catherine Opie: Reacted to "P. 241 A paragraph s..." with 🙏🏻
00:38:44 Anthony: The Communion of the Saints.
00:41:19 Anthony: Then it is a blessing to endure the enemies' false accusations now to be vaccinated against them and hope in God at the moment of death.
00:58:10 Suzanne Romano: So important to understand that these lamentations are not hyperbole, but rather the depth of the anguish of self knowledge in this vale of tears.
01:00:41 Anthony: When I would hear about people's great Sins, I would realize the root of every one I could see in myself in small ways and it was terrifying. I think maybe this realization is also part of Isaiah's grief?
01:05:05 Forrest Cavalier: ps 51:19 My sacrifice, O God, is a contrite spirit; a contrite, humbled heart, O God, you will not scorn. (Much of the previous paragraphs from Ephraim mirror Ps 51, too)
01:05:22 Suzanne Romano: It's interesting to consider whether this depth of the remorse of self knowledge, and the pain and crying out to God that is engendered, becomes the seed of perfect confidence in God as Physician and Helper.
01:05:37 Anthony: Then we should pray for the greatest of sinners as if we are praying for our own souls?
01:09:05 Sr. Mary Clare: I think of St. Mary Magdalene weeping for her sins on the feet of Jesus and how He says to her that her sins are forgiven because she has loved much. Her compunction of heart was seen in it's depths by Jesus Christ
01:09:14 Maureen Cunningham: Jesus prayer
01:11:27 Suzanne Romano: One of the most heartening thoughts for the contrite, is that their suffering is love. It doesn't feel like love, but it is love, and the God of Love recognizes it.
01:12:00 Sr. Mary Clare: Reacted to "One of the most hear..." with ❤️
01:20:26 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You , Blessing to all
01:21:16 Sr. Mary Clare: St. Peter sees the miracle of Jesus multiplying fish, He says, "Depart from me, Lord, for I am a sinful man." In the confessional we approach the mercy seat of God, and we almost want to say the same as Peter did. God's mercy is so great!
01:21:22 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
01:21:24 Catherine Opie: Once again thank you Fr. and God bless 🙏🏻❤️
What is it that forms and shapes us the most as human beings? What affects the way that we perceive reality and gives form to the thoughts that we have throughout the course of a day? Do we have any awareness of an interior life or are we simply drawn along by the flow of external realities; demands, responsibilities or forms of entertainment?
According to the Fathers and Saint Isaac the Syrian, we are in a constant state of receptivity through our senses. Part of being a human being is that we see and perceive everything that is around us; all of which give rise to a multitude of thoughts, images and feelings. Our lack of awareness of reality and of the internal life and the effect that our thoughts have upon us means that we often allow or identity to be shaped by the changing tides of the times or the constant shifting of our emotions.
In so many ways, the Fathers were the first depth psychologists. Their movement to great solitude and the stillness of the desert allowed a greater awareness to emerge of what was going on internally. This of course didn’t lead immediately to understanding or transformation. However, the awareness did allow them to begin to discern the source of their thoughts, what thoughts predominate, and where their thoughts were leading them.
Thoughts can be so strong and so deeply rooted that they become habitual - as well as the actions that follow from them. These habitual thoughts and actions the Fathers call “passions” and the passions as a whole are referred to as the “world”. Our growing capacity to acknowledge the dominant passions and to struggle with them allows two things to begin to emerge: a good transformation of our way of life and a greater capacity to understand the nature of our thoughts. Simply put, one begins to be able to measure one’s way of life by what arises from within.
In this Homily, Saint Isaac is setting the stage for guiding us along a path to spiritual healing and transformation in Christ. The fruit of the struggle promises wholeness, freedom, and the joy that our sin often prevents. When we are guided simply by our private judgment or by what satisfies our most basic needs, then our understanding of things becomes very insular and myopic and we lose sight of the dignity and destiny that is ours’ in Christ.
The more that we desire the life and freedom that Isaac describes above the more discover that we need to have no fear of anything. One who has tasted the love and mercy of Christ also finds emerging within himself the courage of a lion. The fear of soul that once overshadowed him succumbs before this ever-present love like wax from the heat of a flame.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:08:36 Bob Čihák, AZ: Is this the book? Amazon has: The Secret Seminary: Prayer and the Study of Theology by Fr. Brendan Pelphrey | Apr 28, 2012
00:16:08 Mary Clare Wax: It has all the bells and whistles! Love it
00:18:29 Bob Čihák, AZ: P. 124, paragraph 14
00:19:08 Myles Davidson: Replying to "P. 124, paragraph 14"
“Think to yourself…”
00:20:04 Suzanne Romano: Hey Studge!
00:20:29 Stephen Romano: Hey sis :)
00:20:47 Suzanne Romano: Reacted to Hey sis :) with "😅"
00:25:37 Fr. Charbel Abernethy: HEART - (καρδιά - kardia): not simply the physical organ but the spiritual centre of man’s being, man as made in the image of God, his deepest and truest self, or the inner shrine, to be entered only through sacrifice and death, in which the mystery of the union between the divine and the human is consummated. ' “I called with my whole heart”, says the psalmist - that is, with body, soul and spirit' (John Klimakos, The Ladder of Divine Ascent, Step 28, translated by Archimandrite Lazarus [London, 1959], pp. 257-8). ‘Heart’ has thus an all-embracing significance: ‘prayer of the heart’ means prayer not just of the emotions and affections, but of the whole person, including the body.
00:25:52 Fr. Charbel Abernethy: REASON -, mind (διάνοια - dianoia): the discursive, conceptualizing and logical faculty in man, the function of which is to draw conclusions or formulate concepts deriving from data provided either by revelation or spiritual knowledge (q.v.) or by sense-observation. The knowledge of the reason is consequently of a lower order than spiritual knowledge (q.v.) and does not imply any direct apprehension or perception of the inner essences or principles (q.v.) of created beings, still less of divine truth itself Indeed, such apprehension or perception, which is the function of the intellect (q.v.), is beyond the scope of the reason.
00:25:57 Fr. Charbel Abernethy: INTELLECT - (νοϋς - nous): the highest faculty in man, through which - provided it is purified - he knows God or the inner essences or principles (q.v.) of created things by means of direct apprehension or spiritual perception. Unlike the dianoia or reason (q.v.), from which it must be carefully distinguished, the intellect does not function by formulating abstract concepts and then arguing on this basis to a conclusion reached through deductive reasoning, but it understands divine truth by means of immediate experience, intuition or ‘simple cognition’ (the term used by St Isaac the Syrian). The intellect dwells in the ‘depths of the soul’; it constitutes the innermost aspect of the heart (St Diadochos, §§ 79, 88: in our translation, vol. i, pp. 280, 287). The intellect is the organ of contemplation (q.v.), the ‘eye of the heart’ (Makarian Homilies).
00:25:57 Adam Paige: Reacted to "REASON -, mind (διάν…" with 👌
00:26:02 Adam Paige: Reacted to "HEART - (καρδιά - ka…" with ❤️
00:40:30 Catherine: Reacted to INTELLECT - (νοϋς - ... with "❤️"
00:41:30 David: I find it interesting some of the main physicist and philosophers are now finding or theorize we are living in a simulation. I have a few atheists people I have come to meet who came to Christ agonizing on things like this. This seems to be an open door to understand this life is not all there is. I also find it interesting reading the desert fathers.
00:42:49 Suzanne Romano: Acedia?
00:43:10 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "Acedia?" with 👍🏼
00:43:31 David: The worst is the bad translation of acedia badly translated the worst of all today.The seven capital sins, also known as the seven deadly sins, are: Pride Greed Wrath Envy Lust Gluttony Sloth
00:47:04 David: Having studied Economy it is clear the market and people are not rational. Thank God I learned science explains little about real life. ha ha
00:48:54 Anthony: Heresy is a club of people with the same private judgment
00:49:04 Anthony: Reacted to Having studied Econo... with "😂"
00:49:29 Suzanne Romano: Yes!
00:51:11 Ren Witter: To be fair, Father, you look like someone out of the Matrix 😄. Perfect robes. Just need the glasses.
00:51:25 Lee Graham: Reacted to "Heresy is a club of …" with 😂
01:02:01 David: Many atheist or agnostics look for meaning and believe science or stoicism will explain it. Then they have a child or love someone and that can't be explained rationally alone
01:02:48 David: Love makes little sense but one "knows" it is more real than anything else
01:03:04 Ben: Replying to "Many atheist or agno..."
And I think it was Bishop Sheen who said the worst thing for an atheist is feeling grateful and having no one to thank.
01:03:10 Anthony: And then, I think, perception becomes more acute to sense brief affirmations from God that you are not lost.
01:03:54 David: Replying to "Many atheist or agno..."
👍
01:04:16 Art iPhone: Reacted to "And I think it was B…" with 👍
01:07:52 Anthony: Father is this understanding of incarnation the thesis of Song of Tears by Olivier Clement?
01:09:15 Maureen Cunningham: Hound of Heaven
01:11:39 David: Just an image of what someone said
01:11:49 David: Matrix dogging bullets
01:11:56 David: Orthodox preist
01:19:18 David: Is there something like the Catena Aurea but written based on the desert fathers? I find when I do readings of the scriptures or daily readings I always am interested what meditations the desert fathers might have had. Reading magnificent or give us our day I don't always find as many treasures as what I have found in the desert fathers. Would be wonderful if there was a missal with this or something like the catena aurea. I have had 3 icons Climatus, Issac and Ephraim for 15 years even with those I would be happy
01:20:36 Ben: "The Bible and the Holy Fathers"? A Byzantine nun mentioned this one.
01:21:29 Lori Hatala: Sounds like a book needs to be written.
01:21:58 Erick Chastain: "The Word in the Desert" talks about generally how the Desert Fathers read and lived scripture
01:22:10 Erick Chastain: There might be things like this there
01:24:13 Myles Davidson: Replying to ""The Word in the Des..."
That’s a good book!
01:24:25 Myles Davidson: Reacted to ""The Word in the Des..." with 👍
01:25:00 Erick Chastain: How does one practice fear for the soul?
01:26:58 Suzanne Romano: My preciouuuus!
01:27:07 Maureen Cunningham: What week would it be in the Bible and Holy Fathers is it different
01:28:07 Anthony: The choice of gollum is perceptive. In Jewish folklore, a gollum is an artificial thing brought to "life" by magic.
01:28:47 David: There is a great book on Tolkien. Tolkien and Faith. But think of a life without Love existing helped at least me. The alternative is transactional and life has no meaning.
01:29:59 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You on web site
01:30:41 Andrew Adams: Thanks be to God! Thank you, Father!
01:30:43 David: Thank you father bless you and your mother!
01:30:45 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
01:30:47 Suzanne Romano: Pax!
01:30:49 Kathleen: Thank you
01:30:50 Jeff Ott: Thank you!
01:30:52 Julie: God bless all
01:30:57 Lee Graham: Thank you
In their discussion of the struggle with the passions and in particular those associated with the bodily appetites and what we experienced through the senses, the fathers do not neglect to show us the effect that our thoughts and our lack of watchfulness can have upon the unconscious. Certain images and ideas will emerge from our dreams and often take on a form that can be agitating or of a subject matter that is disturbing spiritually. The fathers want us to understand that we are not morally culpable for what arises during the night in our dreams nor can the Evil One directly influence what happens because of our dreams such as nocturnal emissions. Yet, are not to ruminate upon the meaning or the content of these dreams during the day. To do so is to open ourselves “daydreaming”, where we openly allow ourselves to think about images thoughts and ideas that came to mind during the night. Such rumination then can be a source of temptation for us. It is best to set such thoughts aside and focus on fostering temperance and love. As long as we are focused upon God then what arises out of the unconscious will eventually be healed as well. However, if we are slothful or worse prideful we become more subject to the effects of such a dreams or their frequency will become more prominent in our life because of our lack of spiritual discipline.
In Hypothesis XXXII, our attention is drawn toward the work of contrition. Saint Gregory tells us that contrition manifest itself in many forms of spiritual beauty. This is striking if only because of the negative connotation that the word contrition sometimes holds. Saint Gregory tells us that ultimately it is a path to beauty, goodness and love. When a soul first seeks after God at the outset it feels contrition out of fear. It is humbled by the depths of its poverty and how contrary this is to that which is good and to our essential dignity. Tears begin to flow and as they do the soul begins to develop a certain courage in the spiritual life and is warmed by a desire for heavenly joy. The soul which shortly before wept from the fear that it might be condemned, eventually weeps bitterly simply because of how far it perceives itself from the kingdom of heaven. As the soul is cleansed, however, it clearly beholds before it what the choirs of angels are and the splendor that belongs to these blessed spirits. Ultimately, the soul begins to behold the vision of God himself. One then weeps for joy as it waits to experience this vision in its fullness. When perfect contrition emerges then the soul’s thirst for God is satiated; tears now turning in to the living waters of the kingdom.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:11:02 Lorraine Green: Fr., can you take a Mass request? Where would we send that is so? And the stipend?
00:11:33 Suzanne Romano: Reacted to I've got a (pet) rab... with "😄"
00:14:00 Bob Čihák, AZ: P. 238 # A
00:21:21 Anthony: This is also an exercise of faith....if a person is hunted by fear of filth, and filth separates us from God, the fathers recommend the exercise of faith and ignoring false feelings of filth.
00:23:37 Forrest Cavalier: Reacted to "This is also an exer..." with ❤️
00:23:41 Andrew Adams: Reacted to "This is also an exer..." with ❤️
00:25:25 Suzanne Romano: St. Alphonsus recommends, for holy purity, three Hail Marys before sleep and three upon waking.
00:26:06 Suzanne Romano: TV opens up the portals of the passions.
00:27:32 Catherine Opie: There is nothing more enjoyable to do with kids than to read a book aloud.
00:28:06 Sheila Applegate: Quitting can feel like a drug addiction. It can release the neurotransmitter dopamine and it is so craveable.
00:28:50 Catherine Opie: Reacted to "Quitting can feel li..." with 👍🏻
00:28:57 Catherine Opie: Reacted to "St. Alphonsus recomm..." with ❤️
00:29:01 Catherine Opie: Reacted to "This is also an exer..." with 🙏🏻
00:29:02 Marias iphone 14: Reacted to "There is nothing mor…" with ❤️
00:29:33 Bob Čihák, AZ: We gave up TV easily. After we drove 2 cars from WA to AZ and had my laptop brick and the AC in one car break, 7 years ago, we haven't yet bother to get a TV.
00:36:19 Catherine Opie: Reacted to "We gave up TV easily..." with 🤓
00:37:28 Anthony: Fyi....even common technology works against us. I have a program on my new cell phone that I don't know how to get off, and when I swipe to use my phone, I'm getting pornography and other ads that is the first thing I see.
00:38:05 Suzanne Romano: I think porn rewires the brain.
00:40:02 Wayne: Have heard one author say that men who have this issue want to stop but seem powerless to stop the addiction
00:40:29 Myles Davidson: The book “Your Brain On Porn: Internet Pornography and the Emerging Science of Addiction” looks at the science behind the rewiring process
00:42:17 Suzanne Romano: There's a spiritual warfare aspect to the addiction.
00:43:51 Catherine Opie: Reacted to "There's a spiritual ..." with 👍🏻
00:53:08 Catherine Opie: Replying to "Fyi....even common t..."
Is it a google app for news and advertising? I had that on my new phone. You can go to your apps and remove it. It will usually have some kind of media logo on it. So you can see what app it is. Also you can change the settings on your screen, it may just be a simple case of turning off the advertising notifications
01:06:12 Lindsey Funair: Maybe hardest part for me in recognizing the beauty and wanting of the divine is how it folds back on the weak spirit in the form of idolatry and covetousness of that which is so supremely beautiful simply because it reflects God's Love.
01:06:15 Anthony: Reacted to Is it a google app f... with "👍"
01:08:23 Forrest Cavalier: Life-giving repentance is in today's readings. “God has then granted life-giving repentance to the Gentiles too.” Acts 11:18 from today's mass readings (western church.)
01:10:20 Anthony: You also have to love yourself "through" feelings of deficiency, and convince yourself "God hates nothing He has made."
01:17:58 Andrew Adams: Thanks be to God! Thank you, Father!
01:18:01 Sr. Mary Clare: thank you!
01:18:04 Lindsey Funair: thank you
01:18:04 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
01:18:07 Suzanne Romano: Pax!!
01:18:07 Marias iphone 14: Thank you
01:18:14 Catherine Opie: Deo Gratias Fr. Thank you and may God bless you
01:18:15 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father
01:18:27 Sr. Charista Maria: Thank you Fr. :)
Life in Christ is not an abstraction and the gospel is not simply a set of teachings or an ideology. It is clarion call to “Follow Me” from He who is the Lord of life and love. We are invited to participate in the mystery of Divine Life. Just as the fathers tell us that we are to “become prayer” and not simply engage in a discipline, likewise, we must become Christ. We must put on Him mind and our hearts must be animated by His Spirit of love. It is for this reason that Saint Isaac the Syrian places desire at the heart of the spiritual life. There is one path that lies ahead for us – we are to long for Christ and for the life of the kingdom. Anything else is reductive; shrinking the faith down to what is manageable and acceptable to our sensibilities and understanding. It is no longer faith but a simulation or as Christ would say “hypocrisy“.
The reality that Saint Isaac places before us is the need for the healing of the soul; afflicted by sin, we are dominated by the passion. Yet because we are made in the image and likeness of God we often unknowingly reach out to grasp what is greater than ourselves while neglecting purity of heart and the need for God‘s grace and mercy. Such a path only leads to greater darkness. Sin unaddressed, like illness undiagnosed only grows worse. We must seek the healing that comes through participation in the Paschal Mystery; that is, a dying and rising to new life in Christ. We must die to sin and self in order to have the purity of heart and the depth of faith that allows us to comprehend what is beyond the senses and reason.
Central to Saint Isaac’s thought is the purification of the Nous, the eye of the soul. If neglected one simply becomes blind to the presence of God and his love. The words of Christ come to mind in this regard: “the eye is the lamp of the body; so then if your eye is clear, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!” To neglect such a reality is like the man who shamelessly entered into the wedding feast with unclean garments. We seek to enter into the fullness of life and love while yet immersed in the mire of our sin and clinging to the things of the world.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:13:13 susan: wish I could be there I am a piano teacher lol
00:13:20 Bob Čihák, AZ: P. 123, paragraph 11
00:27:04 Myles Davidson: Father, a week or so ago you mentioned private revelation, many of which seem to also fit into this category (ie. fantasies of the mind). There are a plethora of so-called seers around today, many of which have been shown to be fakes. How do the Orthodox deal with this phenomena? I’ve heard they have a policy of keeping private revelations as just that… private. What are your thoughts on this?
00:28:12 Anthony: If Christ on the criss is the Bridegroom, then I can see a person who has desired impure thoughts is running to be like the Bridegroom but is not "ready" to be married. Although, the Gospel does tell us to take up the cross and follow Christ, without reference to one's state of mind or holiness.
00:37:36 Ren Witter: In my notes from the last time we did Isaac, you said that this teaching is not harsh, but practical. Sin being understood as a sickness, a person who has not yet been purified through praxis simply would not have the strength to take up the cross in such a way as to ascend to theoria. Sounds a lot like the teaching on taking up fasting beyond your strength - you’ll just end up worse off than you were before.
00:44:14 Joshua Sander: My apologies if you've already covered this or if Isaac is about to get to this and I'm getting ahead of him, but how does one discern that one's own "senses have found rest from their infirmity" and that he or she is ready for theoria, especially given that temptations and struggles against sin will always be with us while we are in the flesh?
00:47:00 Nypaver Clan: What page are we on?
00:47:07 Ren Witter: 124
00:53:46 Anthony: I suspect a lot of us seekers are like St Teresa d'Avila who suffer much from bad advice until we run into clearer presentations of faith, hope and love.
00:54:15 Catherine Opie: Replying to "I suspect a lot of u..."
Definitely my path 🤣
00:54:24 Catherine Opie: Reacted to "I suspect a lot of u..." with ❤️
00:54:52 Myles Davidson: add 😁
00:57:23 Myles Davidson: Christ as anchor
"We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure." Hebrews 6:19
00:58:28 Ren Witter: The building where this happened was Pitt’s public health building, which is still nicknamed “Our Lady of Public Health”
00:59:11 Wayne: Reacted to "The building where t..." with 😂
00:59:21 Ben: Reacted to "The building where t..." with 🤢
00:59:21 Max Horcher: Reacted to "The building where..." with 😂
01:00:17 Catherine Opie: Reacted to "The building where t..." with 🤣
01:00:45 Catherine Opie: Reacted to "Christ as anchor
"We..." with 🙏🏻
01:01:11 Bob Čihák, AZ: Reacted to "Christ as anchor
"We..." with 🙏🏻
01:01:32 Suzanne Romano: Hell on earth! 😆
01:02:07 Ben: Replying to "Hell on earth! 😆"
Health on earth?...
01:06:16 Myles Davidson: 22 "The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy, your whole body will be full of light.
23 But if your eyes are unhealthy, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!"
Matt 6:22-23
01:06:21 Elizabeth Richards’s iPhone: Replying to "Hell on earth! 😆"
““The eye is the lamp of the body. So, if your eye is healthy, your whole body will be full of light, but if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!”
Matthew 6:22-23 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.6.22-23.ESV
01:06:23 Nypaver Clan: Matthew 6:23
01:12:35 Myles Davidson: Is the word used here “watching” the same as the Greek word ‘nepsis’? (A concept I’ve found very helpful!)
01:12:57 Anthony: Ok, this is where philosophy fails, for in philosophy I only recall being taught about "a priori" knowledge and "a posteriori" knowledge. Isaac is in a different dimension altogether.
01:15:02 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "Ok, this is where ph..." with 👍
01:15:18 Alex Underwood: Reacted to "Ok, this is where ph..." with 👍
01:17:25 Ben: Replying to "Is the word used her..."
Thanks for pointing that out...I had been understanding "watching" as "vigils"...but I guess in that case it would have just said "vigils". 😆
01:17:59 John Cruz: Come and see….
01:18:13 Ben: Reacted to "Come and see…." with 👍
01:19:53 Myles Davidson: Replying to "Is the word used her..."
Could be both… good point 🙂
01:21:22 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You Blessing
01:21:30 Maureen Cunningham: Yay
01:21:48 Bob Čihák, AZ: Thank you Father. You'll never retire.
01:22:19 Andrew Adams: Thanks be to God! Thank you, Father!
01:22:21 Elizabeth Richards’s iPhone: And with your spirit
01:22:21 Catherine Opie: Thank you Fr. very "enlightening" discussion as always, God bless have a wonderful week
01:22:23 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
01:22:28 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you Father!
01:22:29 Suzanne Romano: Pax!!
01:22:40 David: Thank you Father!
01:22:41 Kevin Burke: Thank you father!
The more that I read the fathers’ writings and about their spiritual struggles, the more I understand that what we need to see is the desire that is the foundation their life and driving force behind their behaviors. Our life is to be an urgent longing for God who has given everything to us and revealed his desire to draw us into his life. Our spiritual life cannot be an abstraction; something that exist in the mind alone. Nor can it be a kind of rigorous moralism where one is driven by fear or an intense scrupulosity; rooted in the doubt of God’s compassion and mercy.
We have had to read the Evergetinos very closely and with a critical eye; for the stories capture for us the fathers’ struggle to hold on to the one thing necessary while maintaining a balanced understanding of what it is to be a human being. This is a difficult thing for people to do in general and for the fathers we find that there withdrawal from society intensified and complicated this struggle. We have noted in past discussions the tendency to project the struggle within the human heart onto others as the cause of their anger, lust, etc. In reality, the battle lies within.
Having said this, we must understand that desire is the heart of the spiritual life. It is the one thing that we should be seeking to inflame from moment to moment and day to day. This the fathers understood; especially those who had experienced a radical intimacy with God and purity of heart. When one has tasted the sweetness of the kingdom, the life and love of the living God, then the urgency of one’s desire for God and holding on to what is precious becomes the goal of life. When one’s heart has been touched by the Beloved one can think of nothing else. And when one has lost that intimacy through ingratitude or sloth, the depths of pain in the heart is equally great.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:01:43 Fr. Charbel Abernethy: This is the best reflection I’ve read on Climacus’ description of the prison in The Ladder of the Divine Ascent:
The visitation of the uncreated Light generates the most intense desire which does not allow man any rest on earth. When speaking to his monastic community, Father Sophrony indicated that the prisoners in The Ladder of Saint John Climacus were not ordinary people. They were not people to be despised as sinners who were expelled to be punished. They were people of unrestrainable desire for God, who had known the uncreated Light and then lost it after having sinned in one way or another. They voluntarily went to that prison, determined to die rather than to betray the covenant they had made with God in the beginning. As we read, some of them were so totally consumed by the pain of their desire and repentance, that they passed to the other life even before they had reached the tenth day of their abode in that prison.
00:01:49 Fr. Charbel Abernethy: There is a verse from the Psalms which truly describes the state of those prisoners: ‘Lord, remember David, and all his afflictions: How he sware unto the Lord, and vowed unto the mighty God of Jacob; surely I will not come into the tabernacle of my house, nor go up into my bed; I will not give sleep to mine eyes, or slumber to mine eyelids, until I find out a place for the Lord, an habitation for the mighty God of Jacob.’ In my humble opinion, there is not a more perfect expression of the gift of longing for the living God than this verse of prophet David.
Archimandrite Zacharias Zacharou
“Monasticism”
00:12:35 Suzanne Romano: Nothing in chat
00:12:36 Maureen Cunningham: Nope
00:12:41 Fr. Charbel Abernethy: This is the best reflection I’ve read on Climacus’ description of the prison in The Ladder of the Divine Ascent:
The visitation of the uncreated Light generates the most intense desire which does not allow man any rest on earth. When speaking to his monastic community, Father Sophrony indicated that the prisoners in The Ladder of Saint John Climacus were not ordinary people. They were not people to be despised as sinners who were expelled to be punished. They were people of unrestrainable desire for God, who had known the uncreated Light and then lost it after having sinned in one way or another. They voluntarily went to that prison, determined to die rather than to betray the covenant they had made with God in the beginning. As we read, some of them were so totally consumed by the pain of their desire and repentance, that they passed to the other life even before they had reached the tenth day of their abode in that prison.
00:12:49 Suzanne Romano: Yes
00:12:50 Julie: Yes
00:12:50 Maureen Cunningham: Yes
00:12:55 Fr. Charbel Abernethy: There is a verse from the Psalms which truly describes the state of those prisoners: ‘Lord, remember David, and all his afflictions: How he sware unto the Lord, and vowed unto the mighty God of Jacob; surely I will not come into the tabernacle of my house, nor go up into my bed; I will not give sleep to mine eyes, or slumber to mine eyelids, until I find out a place for the Lord, an habitation for the mighty God of Jacob.’ In my humble opinion, there is not a more perfect expression of the gift of longing for the living God than this verse of prophet David.
Archimandrite Zacharias Zacharou
“Monasticism”
00:12:59 Troy Amaro: Reacted to "This is the best ref…" with 👍
00:23:47 Adam Paige: Reacted to "This is the best ref..." with 👍
00:23:55 Julie: Beautiful
00:26:46 Bob Čihák, AZ: Reacted to "Beautiful" with 👍
00:52:14 Catherine Opie: Fr. with priests who are in the world they are working with young boys all the time mentoring them as servers and during the mass there is a lot of close contact holding vestments etc. I had never really considered this situation in this way. And we are told these days that human touch is necessary for good mental health as well.
00:52:15 Sr. Charista Maria: Fr. are you familiar with Aelred of Rievaulx, Saint of Holy Friendship? Some of what he shares is different than this. Yes it is scary out there though.
00:52:55 Sr. Charista Maria: St. Aelred is very personable though prudent.
00:56:35 Forrest Cavalier: Like most acolytes, nothing inappropriate happened as I served as an acolyte under many priests for 10 years. Nothing inappropriate. The number of abusers is a small percentage. Too many, but a small percentage. That means that this requirement is not difficult.
00:56:52 Sr. Mary Clare: Concerning priests with altar boys, It takes prayer and discernment to lead the boys to Jesus rather than to themselves. A holy reserve can go a long way. Loving others without any possessive love.
00:57:37 Catherine Opie: Reacted to "Like most acolytes, ..." with 👍🏻
00:57:44 Catherine Opie: Reacted to "Concerning priests w..." with 👍🏻
00:58:22 Lori Hatala: Do you think a lack of reverence contributes?
00:59:02 Sr. Charista Maria: Reacted to "Concerning priests w..." with 👍🏻
00:59:13 Dennis M: Reacted to "Concerning priests w..." with 👍🏻
00:59:24 Sr. Charista Maria: Reacted to "Do you think a lack ..." with 👍
01:13:54 Maureen Cunningham: Yes loud
01:15:44 Suzanne Romano: Isaac speaks about the senses being the conduits of a darkening of the soul. I think he says we have to starve them.
01:15:55 Maureen Cunningham: Desert Fathers went to desert fight the evil.
01:20:54 Sr. Mary Clare: Your beautiful explanations are very balanced. Thank you!
01:21:46 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You
01:21:47 Catherine Opie: It becomes clearer all the time how
01:21:51 Sr. Charista Maria: very good Fr.
01:22:06 Janine: It was great Father! Thank you!
01:22:28 Andrew Adams: Thanks be to God! Thank you, Father!
01:22:35 Suzanne Romano: God bless!
01:22:36 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
01:22:44 Catherine Opie: God bless
01:22:48 Bob Čihák, AZ: You're always on target, Father. The targets change, thank God!
01:22:48 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father.
01:23:05 Maureen Cunningham: We're do you listen
The experience of reading Saint Isaac the Syrian is something like being caught up in a vortex; not a linear explanation of the spiritual life or spiritual practices, but rather being drawn by the Holy Spirit that blows wherever It wills. It is not as though Isaac’s thought lacks cohesiveness, but rather he presents the life of faith and life in Christ to us as an artist painting with broad strokes. This is especially true in the first six homilies that speak of the discipline of virtue. Isaac seems to be more concerned about our breathing the same air as the Saints. He wants us to be swept up by our desire for God and in our gratitude for His love and mercy. Our life is not simply following a series of teachings or a moral code, but rather embodying very life of Christ. We are to love and console others as we have been loved and consoled by the Lord. If our spiritual disciplines do not remove the impediments to our capacity to be loved and to love others, then they are sorely lacking.
In every way, our lives should be a reflection of Christ and the manner that we walk along the path of our lives should be reflective of His mindset and desire. In other words, we should desire to do the will of God and to love Him above all things, including our own lives. We are to die to self and sin and have a willingness to trust in the Providence of God that leads our hearts to desire to take up the cross daily and follow him. We begin to see affliction as something that not only shapes are virtue and deepens our faith, but that is a participation in the reality of redemption. We are drawn into something that is Divine and Saint Isaac would not have us make it something common. The Cross will always be a stumbling block when gazed upon or experienced on a purely natural level. But for those who have faith, we begin to see and experience the sweetness of God’s love and intimacy with him precisely through affliction. Isaac would have us know that joy in all of its fullness.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:10:51 Catherine Opie: Hi there, where are we in the text?
00:12:03 Lori Hatala: pg 122 Cover a sinner...
00:13:10 Catherine Opie: Reacted to "pg 122 Cover a sinne..." with 🙏🏻
00:13:53 Fr. Miron Kerul-Kmec Jr.: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100064674224441
00:14:25 mstef: What's the best place to buy the text for Ascetical Homilies of Saint Isaac the Syrian?
00:14:55 Fr. Miron Kerul-Kmec Jr.: Replying to "What's the best plac..."
https://www.bostonmonks.com/product_info.php/products_id/635/?srsltid=AfmBOop3vDmjuAXUXQSy7YsihYlEpKvTek3MiYqFazzowWu9fREOmiK3
00:16:24 Thomas: I think he is 44
00:17:52 Suzanne Romano: Charbelle
00:19:03 Una: Reacted to "Charbelle" with 👍
00:20:37 Ben: Replying to "What's the best plac..."
Found mine used on Abebooks.com...had study notes, so price was right!
00:22:07 Fr. Miron Kerul-Kmec Jr.: Reacted to "Found mine used on A..." with ❤️
00:29:15 Suzanne Romano: Cover a sinner as long as he does not harm you. How do we define harm? Is a person's obstinate refusal of the truth the kind of suffering we can relieve? Or can dealing with an obstinate person open our heart up to harm?
00:35:56 Kate : Is there a difference between how the Eastern Church understands sainthood vs the Western Church? In the Latin Rite you hear the term “heroic virtue” but it seems the Eastern understanding is more “Christ living within.”
00:38:18 Sr. Mary Clare: Reacted to "Is there a differenc..." with 👍
00:38:57 Sr. Mary Clare: That's a good question, Kate.
00:39:43 Anthony: It's important to avoid self-loathing in failure to pursue good things, but commend all things to God's disposition.
00:45:40 Maureen Cunningham: Thank you so true ,
00:46:55 David: It is easy to pray for deliverance or in thanksgiving but it seems as you draw closer it seems the only honest prayer becomes- Lord teach me your way I trust in you.
00:51:51 Ben: When Father's elected Pope...bye-bye, pews. 👍
00:52:11 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "When Father's electe..." with 😊
00:52:44 Catherine Opie: Reacted to "It's important to av..." with ❤️
00:52:46 Thomas: When he says to help the sinners in the first part how much are we supposed to do, because at some point wouldn’t you encroach on spiritual father type of stuff
00:53:02 Catherine Opie: Reacted to "It is easy to pray f..." with ❤️
00:53:09 Catherine Opie: Reacted to "When Father's electe..." with 🤣
00:54:05 Una: With my long-term fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue (severe) I simply could not keep up with Orthodox services, especially Holy Week. And the fasting. I was glad to come back to the Western rite and more relaxing fasting. God bless those who can do it.
00:54:48 Sr. Mary Clare: Unfortunately, covid became an excuse not to return to Mass. This has become a very sad situation. Watching the Liturgy online has become the norm. No doubt, this was a tactic of the evil one.
00:55:20 Catherine Opie: Reacted to "Unfortunately, covid..." with 👍🏻
00:55:35 Eleana: I have seen more participation AFTER covid.
00:55:47 Jamie Hickman: This is how the TLM is in my experience. Yes, there are rushed low Masses out there, but my decades experience of Sunday Sung Mass is minimum 90 minutes, but usually closer to 2. The 10:30 in my area ends between 12:20-12:30 weekly. In Tampa this year, Easter Vigil began at 7 PM and ended around 12:30 AM...and the pastor actually began speaking some of the prayers in English that are permitted so to save some time.
00:56:07 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "This is how the TLM ..." with 👍
00:56:30 Ben: Replying to "I have seen more par..."
Trad. parishes *exploded* with growth, it's true. God brings good out of evil.
00:56:41 Catherine Opie: Interesting that
00:57:00 Myles Davidson: Replying to "This is how the TLM ..."
The Extraordinary Form is just that… extraordinary!
00:57:53 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "Trad. parishes *expl..." with 👍
00:58:55 David: In my parish we are filled with millennials and Gen Z even daily mass it is amazing I hope they stay. Before daily mass was just me and a few older people now almost every pew is full. But my parish is very traditional and lots of silence in mass. Covid might have been an momentary issue but now at least where I am I am shocked to see sunday service flow into the atrium and people holding open the doors outside during feasts.
00:58:59 Catherine Opie: Sorry, pressed enter before ready, I find it interesting that existing Catholics might be doing that, avoiding going to mass in person by watching on line, while for converts like myself lockdowns drove me into the arms of Catholicism, and adult conversions doubled this year on last year.
00:59:31 Sr. Mary Clare: Reacted to "Sorry, pressed enter..." with ❤️
01:00:09 Sr. Mary Clare: Reacted to "In my parish we are ..." with ❤️
01:01:40 Una: Thank you. Very encouraging.
01:06:51 Catherine Opie: I see the physical pain that intensifies when at mass, praying etc as the level of my resistance to sit with God. I offer it up for the souls in purgatory and breathe through it. As well as having to suffer the perfume other people wear!!!!!
01:06:54 Suzanne Romano: Guadalupe
01:06:54 Anthony: Guadeloupe was 1500s
01:06:58 Ben: Guadalupe was 1531 - Aztecs
01:08:12 Myles Davidson: Replying to "I see the physical p..."
Perfumes = penance!
01:09:04 Ben: Reacted to "Perfumes = penance!" with 😲
01:11:32 David: Guadalupe did convert more Christians in the shortest period of time in history after decades of little success in the Americas. My son was baptized in the first stone font when we lived in Mexico, the next year moved to a museum in Tlaxcala. The first Christians were other communities and the aztecas a minority in the territory were hold outs till Guadalupe.
01:16:57 Ben: Asceticism in the beginning of the spiritual life is basic to the Fathers, but today it's often treated as something for those who are already saints, with no reference to purity of heart.
01:19:05 Eleana: Reacted to "Guadalupe did conv..." with 😮
01:19:35 Lee Graham: Please explain the soul,s incentive parr
01:19:48 Lee Graham: Incentive
01:19:48 Anthony: Asceticism with little prayer and desire sounds similar to Jansenism
01:20:23 Ben: Right - we need all that.
01:23:11 Ben: It's a deep paragraph for 8:38pm
01:23:15 Sr. Mary Clare: What you have been saying is beautiful!
01:23:16 David: Why with all the ministries and works, committee's, Bingo, fundraisers isn't there more spiritual direction and an ER for the the spiritually sick. What I like most about the desert fathers is they identify the error and give a solution or solutions. I am dismayed by the latin approach to dealing with any of the evil thoughts.
01:23:20 Naina: Amen 🙏 Thank you Father 🙏✝️🤍
01:23:57 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
01:24:02 Elizabeth Richards: Peace to you
01:24:02 Catherine Opie: God bless Fr.
01:24:10 Francisco Ingham: God bless you Fr.!
01:24:11 David: Thank you father may God bless you and your mother.
What is the limit of our desire for God? What conditions do we set on our pursuit of virtue, constancy of prayer and the avoidance of sin? What emerges from the writings of the fathers is their willingness to sacrifice themselves and comfort in ways that are unimaginable to the modern mind. Beyond that their actions seem to be absurd and extreme to the point of falling to the criticism of masochism or self hatred. It is very difficult for many to grasp the nature of such thirst and desire for God and to please Him. Equally, it is hard to imagine going to the lengths that these ascetic did in avoiding sin or overcoming temptation in the heat of the battle. They often treated the body harshly to prevent themselves from pursuing natural or disordered desires. Rarely do we consider the pretext that the Evil One is willing to use to draw us into sin. Therefore, we often will put ourselves to the test or engage in futile warfare that bears witness to pride within our hearts. Thus, even in our critical reading of the fathers we have to be wary of allowing our modern sensibilities to convince us that we see things with greater clarity psychologically and spiritually. If we are wrapped in the illusion of faith and comfortable with mediocrity, our sensibilities are going to be dulled and the Cross will remain for us as it has often been in every generation – a stumbling block rather than the revelation of selfless love.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:01:26 Fr. Charbel Abernethy: Page 231 number 9
01:01:12 Suzanne Romano: This is the reason why people should dress modestly.
01:02:40 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "This is the reason ..." with 👍
01:03:02 Catherine Opie: Reacted to "This is the reason ..." with ❤️
01:07:45 Kate : When children are formed in truth, goodness, and beauty from a young age, they are able to see the falsehood in secular culture.
01:08:37 Suzanne Romano: Reacted to When children are fo... with "❤️"
01:12:15 Catherine Opie: Reacted to "When children are fo..." with ❤️
01:12:28 Anthony: I often think: if these things against innocence are wrong, why does God let it happen? And I have to fight rising anger.
01:16:36 Suzanne Romano: That is a truly consoling answer!
01:16:58 Sr. Charista Maria: Wow, great response Father :).I
01:21:57 Tracey Fredman: I have tasted it - what Fr. is saying is so right - so true, transformative - and then He sends us -
01:22:18 Anthony: Reacted to I have tasted it - w... with "❤️"
01:22:27 Sr. Charista Maria: Reacted to "I have tasted it - w..." with ❤️
01:23:02 Sr. Charista Maria: Reacted to "When children are fo..." with ❤️
01:23:49 Suzanne Romano: Your soul is always young!
01:24:31 Laura: Reacted to "Your soul is always ..." with 👍🏼
01:24:51 Suzanne Romano: 😆
01:25:05 Lee Graham: What is your address
01:25:11 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
01:25:30 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You Blessing
01:25:57 Andrew Adams: Thanks be to God! Thank you, Father!
01:25:58 Catherine Opie: Deo Gratias
01:26:10 Julie: God bless
01:26:24 Catherine Opie: My dog has awoken
Gratitude is placing ourselves into the hands of God, trusting in His providence and allowing Him to guide us where He wills (without asking us for permission or our understanding His purpose). It is like having a bucket of cold water dumped over our heads. We are suddenly awakened and our whole being is set on edge.
We realize in the words of Saint Isaac the Syrian that gratitude and faith are often not what we imagine or want them to be. To show gratitude to He who is crucified Love means that we embrace that Love in our lives, are driven by the same desires as Christ, and willing to bear affliction patiently and with joy.
In the Scriptures, we hear the surprising words: “He was made perfect by what he suffered“. We see the perfection of love and the mercy of the kingdom most fully when Christ allows himself to be broken and poured out on the cross. Life allows himself to be swallowed up by death. From the perspective of human understanding, it seems to be absurdity and failure.
Despite our acknowledgment and the celebration of the resurrection of Christ - trampling death by death, so that those in the tombs might be granted life, we do not want this reality to shape our experience of life in the world. Saint Isaac is not presenting us with anything different from the gospel and yet our almost infinite capacity for rationalization makes us avoid affliction at every cost and become resentful when we find it ever present in our lives.
The kingdom of heaven is within. Salvation is now. The life that we are called to live and the love that we are to embody has been freely given to us. Not to embrace this life and love, not to allow it to shape the very essence of our lives is the height of ingratitude.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:01:11 Fr. Charbel Abernethy: Page 120
01:10:34 Catherine Opie: I think that we have been indoctrinated into only being grateful when things go the way we want, I read a story about St Dominic that he took great pains to build a church on a hill. When it was finally complete the local king demanded it be torn down stone by stone until nothing was left. St Dominic upon finding this out declared joyously "Praise the Lord!". This really struck me deeply because it is so the antithesis of the attitude I was brought up in where we bemoan and curse God for misfortune and only are grateful when we get what we want. Or we see relationship with God only as a place to demand what we want.
01:10:56 Kathleen: Tall order. Very difficult.
01:11:35 Maureen Cunningham: Wow it hard but many rewards . That we can not see
01:11:36 Kathleen: It’s a decision one makes with complete awareness of the situation at hand
01:11:47 Rebecca Thérèse: Sometimes there's no option but to suffer. Uniting one's suffering to the redemptive suffering of Christ gives it purpose.
01:12:36 Art iPhone: Reacted to "I think that we have…" with 👌
01:13:48 Catherine Opie: Reacted to "Sometimes there's no..." with ❤️
01:15:03 David: I don't remember who said it but " It is only in suffering we know we have faith and grow". When everything is easy or pleasurable there is always doubt if this is the ego or faith and virtue.
01:15:28 Elizabeth Richards: We so want to create meaning & give purpose to our suffering (make sense of it), but Isaac seems to be showing that entering into suffering is entering into Christ.
01:17:25 Joseph: The heart of asceticism is stripping away the palpable, to open up space for the noetic
01:18:38 Kathleen: Yes
01:18:48 Ren Witter: ALS
01:19:03 Kathleen: Yes
01:19:28 Kathleen: Yes
01:19:50 Kathleen: Thank you!!!!
01:20:03 Maureen Cunningham: Thank you Father
01:20:04 Julie: Thankyou
01:20:47 Andrew Adams: Thanks be to God! Thank you, Father!
01:20:52 Catherine Opie: 🙏🏻❤️ Thank you
01:20:54 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you, happy Easter everyone🙂
01:20:56 Matt S: Thank you!
01:20:57 David: Thanks father!
01:20:57 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you!
01:21:08 Andrew Adams: Thanks everyone. Great comments tonight!
We see clearly within the struggles of the desert fathers how difficult it can be to avoid extremes in thought and action. We see in them those filled with desire for God and striving for purity of heart; maintaining watchfulness and fostering a hatred of sin. Yet, how is one form and develop a sensitive conscience and awareness of the power of our own appetites and desires as human beings, concern with demonic provocation, and yet to hold on to a true view of the beauty of creation and the dignity of the human person? As fully invested as the desert fathers were, and as psychologically and spiritually astute as they could be, this was no small task. We find in their language at times a tendency to project their fear of sin or temptation onto others. This can be uniquely the struggle of religious people; rather than humbly acknowledging the truth within our own hearts and the power of our own desires we will blame temptation upon others – on the things they say or do. Saint Philip Neri once said: “Man is often the carpenter of his own crosses”. We do not like to acknowledge the truth of that fact; that we are the source of our own temptation or that it arises out of our own imagination and memory.
Despite this, however, they did see very clearly that the Evil One can use every pretext to provoke a person into sin. The devil can appear as an angel of light, and the desert fathers would have us never forget this. Even that which is good - those bonds of love and familial affection, nostalgia for those relationships that have been so powerful - all of these things, the evil one will work on to distract us or pull us in a particular direction. One might argue, somewhat convincingly, that such a concern is extreme or neurotic. In this we do not want to defend the indefensible. However, we want to understand the changeableness of the human heart and mind, its fickleness and treachery. Demonic provocation can turn the mind and the heart toward things that we never imagined we would ever consider or do. May God have mercy on us and guide us.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:19:49 Wayne: page again
00:20:09 Myles Davidson: Pg 230 L 4
00:20:30 Wayne: thnx
00:28:58 Anthony: This actually makes a lot of sense if we consider pagan myth. Monks strove to be like the descriptions of angels. But that desire to be "heavenly" can be perverted if we let the pagan myths distort our minds of the heavenly since sex was so often part of myth: like the relationship of Uranos and Gaiea, or the Olympians. We need a right view of God and creation and created things if we will truly strive to the true God.
00:52:05 Anthony: I saw it. Very good. Also has scenes of temptation to love a woman who was attracted to him when they were young.
00:57:34 Catherine Opie: Being a new convert and coming from a non Catholic, mostly atheist family, and having a friend base who are not Christian I can relate in a small way how that might feel. I have had both friends and family become vitriolic over my change in belief. It can be challenging because I am no longer their ally in viewpoint.
01:03:01 Ashton L: I’d say a lot of people get fanatic and someone with genuine zeal confused
01:04:11 Anthony: Honest, not being a fanatic is a serious concern because some kinds of fundamentalism and truly nuts and malformed. I don't want to be that guy. I don't want to blow out of proportion stories of demons or private visions. Then you're almost a solupsist, and insufferable.
01:07:29 Kate : There are a number of Western saints, men and women, who were great friends. For example, Sts. John of the Cross and Teresa of Avila, Sts. Francis and Clare, Sts. Francis de Sales and Jane Frances de Chantal, among others. I wonder if you could comment on how to understand these great spiritual friendships in light of these writings.
01:08:02 Forrest Cavalier: Reacted to "There are a number o..." with 👍
01:08:11 Catherine Opie: Reacted to "There are a number o..." with ❤️
01:08:56 Vanessa: Replying to "There are a number o..."
Jesus also had female friends. Martha and Mary.
01:09:18 Nypaver Clan: St. John of the Cross
01:11:16 Myles Davidson: The Spanish Teresa of Avila mini series
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNBgLeqw6lxe_51ysMXFjR54sQf9LCl6j
01:11:30 Catherine Opie: Reacted to "The Spanish Teresa o..." with 🙏🏻
01:11:46 Ashton L: Reacted to "The Spanish Teresa o…" with 🙏🏻
01:13:58 Rebecca Thérèse: Therese asked that the sisters not put poisonous things within her reach lest she should take it in a moment of weakness
01:14:22 Anthony: Reacted to Therese asked that t... with "❤️"
01:15:01 Andrew Adams: Thanks be to God! Thank you, Father!
01:15:03 Catherine Opie: Thank you Fr. God Bless
01:15:24 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you. Happy Easter everyone🙂
01:15:39 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "Thank you. Happy Eas..." with 🥰
01:16:07 Ashton L: Reacted to "Thank you. Happy Eas…" with ❤️
01:17:04 Catherine Opie: Happy Easter!!!
After having spoken to us about the importance of being filled with wonder at the love and mercy of God revealed to us in Christ and desiring him above all things, Saint Isaac immediately stresses that what is born from the heart must be real and concrete. It is one thing for us to use beautiful words to speak about Christ and the faith. It is another to embody the love and compassion of Christ so vitally that our actions and words transmit virtue to others. In other words, for our actions to be life-giving, they must be rooted in the experience of the living God. Otherwise, our wisdom becomes a “deposit of disgrace”. Whereas righteous activity born of the love of Christ and the experience of his mercy becomes a “treasury of hope”. How do we engage the world around us and those in it except by embodying He who is reality, love and truth.
Our temporal life passes so quickly and Isaac tells us that if we love it then our way of life is defiled or we have been deprived of knowledge. He writes: “the fear of death distresses a man with a guilty conscience, but the man with a good witness within himself longs for death as for life.“ If Christ is the center of our life then we will have no fear or anxiety. The only thing that we take out of this world is our vice or virtue. Everything passes away like a dream disappearing in the morning.
All that we have received is pure gift; coming to us through baptism and faith where we are called by the Lord - called by name - to enter into his life and to love as he loved. Indeed it is an interesting thing that Isaac begins his Ascetical Homilies by emphasizing wonder, desire, urgent longing and God‘s desire for us as well how freely He has given us everything that is good. Isaac set us upon a path that helps us keep our focus upon God and God alone. All of our spiritual disciplines must serve to help us love and give ourselves in love or they are hollow. Likewise, all that we receive must be responded to with gratitude. There is only one thing that keeps us from experiencing the richness of God’s grace and mercy. It is our failure to turn towards him through a lack of trust or appreciation for His generosity.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:08:47 Catherine Opie: Apologies I missed last weeks zoom due to being offline. What page are we on today?
00:10:29 Fr. Charbel Abernethy: Page 118 paragraph 34
00:19:12 Catherine Opie: Things move slower down here in Australasia 🤣
00:24:50 David: I find this part so beautiful my grandmother was an artist near Lake Superior and painted in water colors I spent my summers with her and while I love her paintings I remember more the scenes , smell of the wildflowers and of course being next to her. The painting is but a pale reflection. So to with talking about love but feeling that from my family/mentors special people illuminates long after the time has past.
00:29:18 David: In the end I found Christ seeing him in my grandparents and others not the years of studying, reading the Summa. He was there next to me living through them.
00:46:06 Ren Witter: Don’t worry Father, I’ll throw myself on your grave and weep ;-)
00:46:50 paul g.: Reacted to "Don’t worry Father, …" with 😇
00:47:25 Tracey Fredman: Sometimes we find ourselves in a position ... I have thoughts! I pray for everyone's prayers - don't know how to raise my hand on the phone! lol
00:47:51 Tracey Fredman: Reacted to Don’t worry Father, ... with "😇"
00:48:13 Tracey Fredman: I can unmute
00:49:23 Tracey Fredman: (or not , lol)
00:49:36 David: I nice thing to do is to take a picture and send it to them SMS. Someone did this for me and it is really comforting in bad times to see a candle lit, a thought shared etc.
00:51:53 David: We enter this life and leave the same way - no teeth, no hair and in diapers what is important is what we share in-between was a saying from my Grandfather.
00:54:46 Bob Čihák, AZ: I've given up saying, "I can't wait to be a burden to my children." too much static.
00:57:01 David: Reacted to "I've given up saying..." with 😂
01:00:09 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: HIs advice here would also apply to those who carry trauma memories.
01:01:39 David: When my Mom was in hospice at home dying I was also raising my sons alone and commuting to Chicago (4hrs driving). I had a lot of anxiety and listed to relevant radio on the way back. Father Simon said the only honest prayer is not asking for things but - God teach me your ways. When I started doing this most of the anxiety and frustration went away. I guess letting go of pride?
01:02:23 Bob Čihák, AZ: Reacted to "When my Mom was in h..." with 👍
01:03:02 Catherine Opie: Reacted to "When my Mom was in h..." with ❤️
01:03:14 Catherine Opie: Reacted to "We enter this life a..." with ❤️
01:03:45 Anthony: A problem is that these very remedies - Bible, sacraments, real theology - have been distorted and abused and therefore look ugly and repulsive. That blockage needs to be overcome
01:03:58 Bob Čihák, AZ: My favorite is "Thy will be done." So much so that we're planning it for our gravestone.
01:05:16 David: Reacted to "A problem is that th..." with 👍
01:05:21 Catherine Opie: Reacted to "My favorite is "Thy ..." with 🤣
01:17:39 Ryan N: Father, How does one who struggles with giving gratitude arrive to such state. Is it left to the grace of God? Do we ask God for the grace to be grateful?
01:19:45 Naina: Thank you Father 🙏✝️❤️
01:20:30 Andrew Adams: Thanks be to God! Thank you, Father!
01:20:30 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you!
01:20:42 Catherine Opie: Thank you Fr, I will pray for you.
Tonight‘s group consisted mostly of a monologue (out of necessity) about how it is that we are to read the Fathers. We have learned over these few years that one must read in a discerning and discriminating fashion, as well as prayerfully. There is great wisdom to be found within the ascetical writings, however, we must understand that the spiritual life and the personal struggle of each of the desert monks was unique. Furthermore, the desert itself was a laboratory like no other. In the deep solitude, the fathers saw with great clarity the workings of the human mind and heart as well as temptations that came from within and through demonic provocation.
If there is one point that I wanted to make clear in pressing through this with the group is that our love of virtue, of God and our desire to be free of the passions can lead us not only into extremes of discipline but also into a kind of psychological violence. The sorrow over our own poverty and sin can lead us to repress certain parts of our personality and aspects of our life as human beings that are a source vitality and the capacity to love. We have often spoken about desire being at the heart of the spiritual life; we seek He alone who can fill what is lacking within us. Yet when the ascetic life is treated like a defense mechanism, we can project our struggles and responsibility for ourselves onto others or, in the intensity of the struggle, repress that which is essential to being fully human. This is not an ancient phenomenon. Those who engage in the spiritual battle today can be tempted in similar ways. Each generation is unique in regards to the nature of the battle but the same pitfalls remain.
It is for this reason that the ascetical life cannot be seen as an end in itself. It must begin with Christ, our relationship with him and our trust in his mercy and grace. Devoid of this relationship, the ascetic life can draw us into self focus that is destructive to us both emotionally and spiritually. Thus, our reading of the fathers places upon us a responsibility to be striving at the same time to draw close to Christ. Otherwise, the spiritual life can become a tragic distortion of the truth rather than the source of healing that it is meant to be. The current state of affairs within the life of the Church and the disconnect with this greater spiritual tradition points to such a distortion. When Christianity becomes a cultural phenomenon and whenever even its deepest and most beautiful forms of prayer become habitual and automatic, it becomes lifeless. Let us take heed then of this great responsibility and entrust ourselves to the grace of God and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. All things are possible with God, but without him there is only darkness or a sad simulation of faith.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:13:17 Bob Čihák, AZ: P 230, K
00:23:29 Rachel: Is the connection instable for anyone else?
00:23:42 Rachel: unstable*
00:24:21 Monk Maximos: Replying to "unstable*"
Mine is fine
00:24:44 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "Mine is fine" with 👍🏼
00:24:50 Bob Čihák, AZ: Reacted to "Mine is fine" with 👍🏼
00:25:38 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Mine is fine" with 👍🏼
00:27:02 Anthony: Would it be psychology healthier for people to be ordained or vowed religious as older people? St Paul suggests this, but the stories of saints romanticized young vocations (like St. Agnes).
00:27:55 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Would it be psycholo..." with 🤔
00:30:39 Sr. Charista Maria: Very important thoughts you are sharing Father. Holiness and Wholeness. Human/Spiritual integration.
00:31:30 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Very important thoug..." with ❤️🔥
00:32:10 Rachel: Reacted to "Mine is fine" with 🙏
00:33:19 Anthony: Right. Even St Symeon the New Theologian cracked mentally or emotionally as a young man.
00:35:58 Sr. Charista Maria: Pope Leo 13th spoke of the 100 years of satan which we have been in, hence such deep wound today and the need for longer formation for most.
00:38:48 Monk Maximos: The Servants of the Paraclete had a similar experience.
00:41:33 Catherine Opie: Reacted to "Very important thoug..." with ❤️
00:44:42 Monk Maximos: Not only secular universities… some “catholic” ones are too.
00:44:54 Forrest Cavalier: Reacted to "Not only secular uni..." with 👍
00:45:57 Maureen Cunningham: We need the Holy Spirit an lots of joy
00:46:03 Rachel: I wonder if we are not still reeling from that but have only just begun to see the havoc modern psychology relied upon as if gospel truth has wrought upon civilization. The eye when not purified by a life in Christ views the world skewed through modern psychology no matter how good the intentions of those pursuing help though these means. How much though, do we see through this lens? How much doe it affect how we see ourselves, others and Christ Himself? How do we relate to each other?
00:46:18 Forrest Cavalier: Before going to secular college (CMU, late 1980s), I promised myself to always meet my Sunday obligation. I know without a doubt it saved my faith.
00:49:56 Catherine Opie: Reacted to "Before going to secu..." with 🙏🏻
00:57:56 Kate : It seems we have to look at these stories not through a moralistic lens, otherwise we will end up thinking of this in terms or right vs wrong. Rather, they we seeking healing of the soul and healing from the passions.
00:58:14 Sr. Charista Maria: I believe reading the desert Fathers and also being open to the graces that God is pouring out in our times. There is a great movement within the Church to encourage healing of the deeper heart, opening up the deep struggle or disorder, being so real with Jesus about the longing, and invite Jesus in to redeem, heal; Jesus then reveals the truth that it is really longing for union with Him (the God-sized void) underlying such disorders. Then the disorder becomes a portal to invite God in. Oh happy fault. and St. John of the Cross spirituality. Many are ashamed to invite God into such disordered longing, and they repress and thus close off the deeper heart to God.
00:58:54 Forrest Cavalier: Reacted to "It seems we have to ..." with 👍
01:02:10 Adam Paige: I see this in a positive light, that we should create spaces for men to be with one another in the church. I went to a men's retreat in Ontario in January and their homework for us was to start a men's group in our parishes if one doesn't already exist. At our last local men's group, we prayed Compline together and we've had Orthodox and Protestant men join us from time to time.
01:08:17 Maureen Cunningham: Monks had mothers I do not understand if Jesus was very close women when did all start
01:11:04 Anthony: In my opinion, some of the issues may be ethnic issues, not fully conformed to the Gospel. Norman's profoundly shaped the Latin Catholic culture, but they had issues. The Greeks had issues (read the Alexiad...wow!). We all have probematic ethnic issues we are not fully recognizing.
01:13:50 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You Father
01:13:51 Catherine Opie: Thank you Fr. very thought provoking as always.
01:14:32 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
01:14:38 Sheila Applegate: Reacted to In my opinion, some ... with "👍"
01:14:57 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father.
01:15:25 Nypaver Clan: Please pray for the soul of Cindy Moran, a member of this group.
Saint Isaac the Syrian begins his teaching with a gentle reminder that liberation from material things, that is, our attachment to the things of this world and placing them above God, is a slow process that involves great toil. Yet, this is the common order of things. In our journey, we often have to break loose of the mooring of those things that prevent us from loving. And so Isaac teaches us that righteous activity involves comprehending what God has revealed to us and then embodying it through action - praxis. Even as we make gains our memory of past sins and failures often brings grief to the soul. We shouldn’t be discouraged by this, St. Isaac tells us, but we must simply allow these recollections to lead us to greater repentance and gratitude for God‘s mercy.
Yet all of this is but a prelude to Isaac asking us an important question: Do you desire to commune with God by perceiving the love and the mercy that He reveals not just with the mind or the senses but through faith and experience? Do you desire God? Do you desire Love? If our answer to this question is “yes” then Isaac tells us we must pursue mercy: “For when something that is like unto God is found in you, then that holy beauty is depicted by Him.“ We begin to see and comprehend the mercy and love of God by loving as he loves; by going beyond the limitations and the confines of our own understanding.
Such spiritual unity once unsealed incessantly blazes in the heart with ardent longing. The soul‘s divine vision, Isaac tells us, unites one to God and the heart becomes awestruck; filled with wonder at what no eye has seen or mind could imagine outside of the grace of God. The path to divine love first begins by showing compassion in some proportion to the Father’s perfection. As Christ tells us, “Be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect, be merciful as your Heavenly Father is merciful“
The dignity and destiny that is ours, the life and love into which God draws us should be what we pursue the most in life. To desire God, to give free reign to an urgent longing for Him brings about our transformation. Desire is our path to the Kingdom within.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:15:08 Callie Eisenbrandt: I’ll take your books Father!! 😂
00:16:21 Bob Čihák, AZ: P 117 paragraph 26 starting "Liberation from...."
00:20:11 Eleana: I want Icons😁
00:30:39 Sr. Charista Maria: Amen Father. So very true. We so often fall so short of such communion with the indwelling presence of the Holy Trinity. Most don't realize the profound grace of our Baptism.
00:30:43 Anthony: This is interesting.....in Italian, a translation of "lust" is "desire." Lust (the sin) must be misplaced desire.
00:31:53 Paisios: There's a phenomenal article by Cormac Jones about converting desire being the most important thing in the Christian spiritual life
00:31:55 Paisios: https://cormacjones.substack.com/p/converting-desire
00:33:38 Sr Mary Clare: Reacted to "https://cormacjones...." with 👍
00:34:19 Anthony: Reacted to There's a phenomenal... with "👍"
00:34:25 Anthony: Reacted to https://cormacjones.... with "👍"
00:36:16 Jamie Hickman: Replying to "This is interestin..."
concupiscence...think concupiscible appetite. we tend to think of it only in the negative (evil, sinful), but as you say: it is not in itself bad
00:41:56 Anthony: Too much asceticism leads to resentment
00:45:00 Nypaver Clan: Father, How do we balance Mercy with the Judgement of God? Is it possible to rely too much on God’s Mercy?
00:50:05 Paisios: I once read, "God's judgement is mercy"
00:52:37 Maureen Cunningham: W hat about abusive act
00:55:43 Sr Mary Clare: There are many out there who constantly say, "Don't judge!. when a person may just be speaking about sins that hurt the heart of Jesus Christ. It is a constant cry of those who seemingly have problems with church teachings and the ten commandments.
00:59:45 Jamie Hickman: I might have missed it: to whom is Isaac intending homily? Was this preached in a church during Divine Liturgy? Looking for context and audience.
01:02:08 Anthony: Leaving their boats and family was leaving freedom and security of having your place where you belong.
01:02:20 Jamie Hickman: thank you, Father
01:02:37 Anthony: Also they left economic power
01:02:52 Sr. Charista Maria: There's a video called The Third Way, which is so beautifully done, that may reflect what you are saying here Father regarding love. Letting Love inspire in all things. The first way is Judging, the second is compromising, the third is Christ's way it seems.
01:04:42 Sr. Charista Maria: It is testimonies of some who were in the homosexual lifestyle, but then were drawn by love to the truth.
01:05:49 Fr. Charbel Abernethy: The intensity of man's thirst for God determines his spiritual progress. Longing for God stands above all ascesis. Man's desire constitutes the small human part, which man offers to God, and God then adds to it the great part of His grace. It is essential to constantly rekindle our desire, and this should be the main concern of our life. God gave the same commandments to all, so if God's gifts are more abundant in some, this means that their thirst for God is greater and they renew their desire day after day. Spiritual thirst brings the whole heart of man to the source Christ, as He Himself said, 'Where your heart is there shall your treasure be also." Respecting man's freedom, however, God responds to man according to his longing, as Saint Silouan writes: ‘The Lord has love for all men but His love is greater for the one who seeks Him.' If we expect the Lord's visitation with all our heart, then, of a surety, we will attract the living waters of His grace.
01:06:28 Lee Graham: Life with Christ must be “experiential”,
01:08:22 Sr. Charista Maria: There's a video called The Third Way, which is so beautifully done, that may reflect what you are saying here Father regarding love. Letting Love inspire in all things. The first way is Judging, the second is compromising, the third is Christ's way it seems. It is testimonies of some who were in the homosexual lifestyle, but then were drawn by love to the truth.
01:12:05 Kathleen: HAHA
01:12:45 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You Father
01:12:53 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
01:13:10 Maureen Cunningham: Yes
01:13:20 Lee Graham: Yes!
01:13:25 David: Thank you father!
01:13:26 Sr Mary Clare: Thank you
In our ongoing discussions of the Desert Fathers’ writings, especially upon sexual desire and sensuality as a whole, one comes to the realization that we have to read in a discerning fashion. In other words, we cannot be lazy while sitting at the feet of the elders. Their wisdom grew out of experience. However, it was the experience of the desert and of monks. What they discovered and understood is unparalleled in its value for the life of the Church and our understanding of spirituality. Yet, although they saw so very much it does not mean they saw everything or that they articulated it in a way that is going to speak to every generation in the same fashion. Every generation, every person, must embrace and embody the fullness of the gospel through striving to enter by the narrow way. The ascetic life is our exercise of that faith and every generation will have particular struggles and battles that are unique to it. In a time like our own, when so many aspects of the culture have been hyper-sexualized, living a life of purity of heart can seem to be not only a difficult but impossible pursuit. While we can see that the dignity of human sexuality and women change radically with Christianity, those changes were not immediate or complete and we see lingering vestiges where women are seen as the cause of sin.
This implants in the spirituality of purity of heart and the struggle with temptation a kind of misogyny, a temptation to the hatred of the self and of sexuality. Inevitably this leaves a void in our understanding and practice of the faith that can be disastrous. Rather than seeing the dignity of the human person made in the image and likeness of God and our destiny in Christ to participate in the Divine life, we can drift into a lifeless moralism. Christianity must speak to the deepest part of a person‘s religiosity; capturing what it means to be a human being, fully alive and transformed by the grace of God.
Even as we sit at the feet of the Fathers, we must keep our eyes upon Christ; for it is in Him alone, that we can plumb the depths of mysteries of God and the kingdom, but also the mystery of what it is to be a human being. Purity of heart is much more about what we can see having removed the impediment of the ego or of disorder desires. Far from being restrictive, it gives us a greater capacity to love and be loved. What is needed in our day are saints who embody this reality so fully that their lives reveal to us the deepest truths about ourselves and God. Only saints stand transparent to the fullness of truth revealed to us in Christ.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:12:51 Bob Čihák, AZ: P 227, I
00:14:06 Bob Čihák, AZ: P 227, I
00:24:18 Una: Let the past stay in the past, in other words
00:24:32 Diana Sciuto: Reacted to "Let the past stay in…" with ❤️
00:24:49 Mary Clare Wax: This is why it is so important to live in the present moment. The past is dead, the future yet unborn. God is the God of "I Am", not "I Was," or "I Will Be."
00:25:05 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "This is why it is so..." with 👍
00:25:23 Diana Sciuto: Reacted to "This is why it is so…" with 👍
00:26:08 Una: The movie and book "Sophie's Choice" really illustrates the danger
00:26:44 Una: Her memories of trauma
00:34:19 Sr. Mary Clare: Very interesting that the First Reading at Mass today was about Susanna and the Elders lusting after her.
00:34:46 Una: Reacted to "Very interesting t..." with 👍
00:35:27 Sr. Charista Maria: It seems this was the issue with the Pharisees who confronted Jesus for being too close to women, such as the one who washed His feet with her tears. They were projecting their impurity of their hearts onto Him, whose heart is so pure.
00:36:17 Sr. Mary Clare: Reacted to "It seems this was th..." with 👍
00:37:56 Anthony: "Purity Culture"?
00:39:27 Nypaver Clan: Chastity ring or Promise ring almost like a pre-engagement ring
00:43:48 Sr. Charista Maria: Great point Fr.
00:52:51 Sr. Charista Maria: I think of the issue the Pharisees had who confronted Jesus for being too close to women, such as the one who washed His feet with her tears. They were projecting the impurity of their hearts onto Him, whose heart is so pure.
00:53:27 Sr. Mary Clare: Reacted to "I think of the issue..." with ❤️
00:59:27 Anthony: I wonder if any of the women here can enlighten us whether in a woman's general spiritual outlook, there can be a "negative anthropology" about men when they pursue purity? Or are the women in a different dimension in this regard?
00:59:40 Julie: I think it starts with our watchfulness of thoughts.
01:01:02 Julie: I taught my sons to see women as someone’s mother, sister or a daughter with that respect and love in their beauty
01:02:59 Sr. Charista Maria: Agreed Fr. Women bring the heart, such as Mary.
01:04:20 Sr. Mary Clare: It this day and age, it seems to be more of a Jezebel spirit among us.
01:07:45 Anthony: "You will be just like my horse, my dog and my falcon, only I will love you more and trust you less." Pharoah Ramses in The Ten Commandments
01:08:04 Bob Čihák, AZ: “Men and Marriage” by George Gilder is an excellent book for our current times. He strips off the lies of radical feminist ideologies.
01:08:39 Sr. Charista Maria: Agree with you regarding the Theology of the Body needing more commentary on the transcending aspect of our sexuality.
01:19:04 Sr. Mary Clare: Well said, Father, you are so right concerning this.
01:20:08 Sr. Charista Maria: Reacted to "Well said, Father, y..." with 👍
01:26:11 Sr. Mary Clare: We are called not to be possessive in our love
01:27:26 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
01:27:27 Forrest Cavalier: Thank you so much!
01:27:42 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father.
As one reads the thoughts of Saint Isaac the Syrian the experience is almost like that of the disciples on the road to Emmaus: “Did our hearts not burn within us?” Isaac speaks to something so deep within the human heart that it ignites the very thing that he sets out to inflame: desire, wonder, awe at the love of God and the mystery of the Divine Life into which God invites us.
One of the great struggles that we have as Christians is that we approach the faith and the spiritual life in a common fashion. In our reading of the Scriptures, we approach them in a reductive manner, dissecting the gospels; pulling out for ourselves bits of wisdom to help us get through life. Yet, Isaac understands that we cannot over-scrutinize the words that are written or spoken to us, but rather must immerse ourselves humbly in Divine Wisdom. Isaac tells us that those who are filled with grace are led by the light that is running between the lines. It is this humble and prayerful approach not only to the scriptures but to the faith as a whole that prevents the heart from being common and devoid of that holy power that “gives the heart a most sweet taste through perceptions that awe the soul.” A soul that is filled with the spirit is going to run toward God, driven by an urgent longing for the fullness of life and love that He alone can satisfy. Not every soul is awakened to that sense of wonder yet it is the pearl of great price, the treasure hidden in the field, and the one thing necessary. May God fill our hearts with a holy desire.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:09:28 The Recovery Community Hub of PBC, Inc.: Hey everyone, in Christ, my name is Ian, I am only using my former workers Zoom platform
00:11:17 Myles Davidson: Pg. 116 “Just as the heaviness of weights…”
00:11:50 Vanessa: I'm in Ontario too. Blizzard is bad here.
00:12:18 Edward Kleinguetl: I lived in Toronto for a year!
00:12:46 Ben: Replying to "I lived in Toronto f..."
I'm east of Ottawa.
00:14:16 Fr. Charbel Abernethy: When you desire to do something for the love of God, put death as the limit of your desire. In this way you will rise in actual deed to the level of martyrdom in struggling with every passion, suffering no harm from whatever you may meet within this limit, if you endure to the end and do not weaken.
~ St Isaac the Syrian
00:20:34 Anthony: It appears Isaac uses "Liberty" of mind different than the Greek Fathers?
00:34:08 Ben: I remember reading "The Imitation of Christ" for the first time in my youth, and thinking, "Oh, boy, this totally demolishes everything we were ever taught about self-esteem!"
00:36:20 David: I am wondering if the Diatessaron which was the most common with Aramaic communities might have influenced idea of living the gospel instead of the legal way of the west?
00:38:06 David: St Emphrain wrote a discourse on that and I assume Issac was likely exposed where the separate gospels tend to compare and contrast and get far to analytical.
00:40:22 David: The other thing I find fascinating the Syrian fathers taught through poetry which moves emotions not just debates or arguments.
00:42:17 Anthony: Seeing the Word of God as the Divine Logos keeps us from the "fundamentalism" that makes categories of touchable and untouchable.
00:42:27 Jamie Hickman: Great podcast episode on the show Square Notes looking at Thomas Aquinas's poetry...too often he's only known by his Summas as though that's his only writing style
00:42:46 Jamie Hickman: hat tip to Fr. Innocent Smith, OP, for his contribution
00:43:11 Paisios: Next book/class should be Hymns on Paradise
00:44:14 Anthony: Reacted to Great podcast episod... with "❤️"
00:44:52 Paisios: yes
00:45:04 Zack Morgan: I feel like the over-scrupulous approach we are discussing works more towards an apologetic end than anything else. We find it almost too easy to read the Gosepls and accept them in contrast to a world that wants to reject them, so we easily fall into the temptation to over-explain that which we have come to blieve by a gift of faith that is in contrast very simple.
00:50:04 Kate : Perhaps it is a lack of faith and trust in the grace of God and the workings of the Holy Spirit in the depths of the soul.
00:52:37 Jamie Hickman: In one of St Louis de Montfort's books on the Holy Rosary, he recounts that Our Lady apppeared to Saint Dominic and told him to preach a simple homily rather than the one he had prepared, which was super eloquent, because in his humility he would convert the souls in the church even though the academics wouldn't be impressed...apparently Our Lady told him to preach the same simple version repeatedly, which led many academics present to think less of him...I might have confused which Dominican, but I think it was Dominic and definitely it was a saint
00:52:40 Sr. Charista Maria: My experience in reading the desert Fathers has been that the purpose and heart of it all is an encouragement to strive to "become fire!"
00:56:53 lauren: Reacted to "My experience in rea…" with ❤️
01:00:12 Elizabeth Richards: Reacted to "My experience in rea..." with ❤️
01:06:37 David: "Virtue seen and lived inspires and virtue explained often makes others weary " was a saying of my grandfather. People were attracted to Christianity by seeing love among the followers not convincing arguments. My own path from being young and not sure of religion was seeing Christ along side me in my grandparents and parents living their faith in love and sacrifice.
01:11:20 Ben: I've thought of that...
01:12:18 Catherine Opie: ❤️🙏🏻
01:12:21 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
01:12:23 Jamie Hickman: thank you, Father!
01:12:23 Diana Sciuto: Thank you
01:12:25 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you Father!
01:12:26 David: Thank you father !
01:12:31 Catherine Opie: Deo Gratias
PLEASE NOTE THAT WE ENCOUNTERED TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES WITH THE AUDIO IN THE RECORDING OF THIS EPISODE. AS A RESULT, IT DOES SOUND GLITCHY. WE APOLOGIZE.
What is unique and distinctive about the Christian identity, perception of reality, and our experience of what it is to be a human being? How do we experience human sexuality and understand how it is shaped by the grace of God or how it can be distorted by sin or demonic provocation?
If we are honest, we would have to say that it is the popular culture, modern psychology, and politics that shape our understanding of these things rather than an encounter with the living God. It is Christ who reveals to us what it is to be a human being made in the image and likeness of God. Beyond this, it is the Grace that comes to us through baptism, the Eucharist, and the gift of the Holy Spirit that shapes are perception of reality most fully. The ascetic life, driven by our desire for God, seeks to remove the impediments to our understanding what it is to be a human being and “fully alive.” We are not simply seeking psychological peace of mind or self understanding. Rather, we are seeking to understand the mystery of our existence and our dignity and destiny in Christ.
These realities should sharpen and intensify our sensibilities and how we engage in our day-to-day life and relationships. The writings and actions of the desert fathers may seem distorted, masochistic or misogynistic. Yet, upon deeper reflection we discover they had a fuller experience and understanding of life. One Saint said: “HE who ceases to pray is no longer a human being.” In other words, when we turn away from God, we lose sight of ourselves and the truth. Our focus and our vision is turned downward, like animals, only seeing what is before us and what can be consumed or used to satisfy our own desires. The life and the writings of the fathers cry out to us saying: “See your dignity, O man. See your glory in Christ your Redeemer and embrace your true identity in Him.”
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Text of chat during the group:
00:11:32 Bob Čihák, AZ: P 220, paragraph starting "After these words...."
00:27:32 Sr. Charista Maria: So true Fr. Thank you for your vulnerable sharing regarding social media even if it's ministry; how important it is to be ever vigilant and conscienceous
00:36:27 Anthony: There are some special considerations regarding Arsenius. He fled imperial Rome to enter the Desert. And, he might have in mind the role women played in puffing up Arius.
00:44:39 Julie: This can be both ways.
00:44:55 Julie: For a women
00:49:09 Maureen Cunningham: Was this because it is the early church. And it would have never lasted all these years.
00:49:18 Maureen Cunningham: Had they compromised
00:52:46 Kate : I don’t know if this is the proper use of the word “gluttony”, but curiosity seems to lead to a certain kind of gluttony for information.
00:53:22 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "I don’t know if this..." with 👍🏼
00:55:43 Forrest Cavalier: Fr. de Souza in his March 29 2025 column warns against the 3 "digital P's" online that often lead young men away from Jesus: Porn, Pious conflict, Politics. Most are aware of the danger of the first, not the other two.
01:06:10 Sr. Charista Maria: It is interesting how some Bible passages, such as Isaiah
10:66, can seem so free in sharing images of bonding between Mother and Child "Oh that you may suck fully... nurse at her breasts", or even espousal union with God, such as Song of Songs, where there is such an underlying purity, which can be so beautiful and meaningful; but still how cautious one must be as spoken of in these writings.
01:10:37 Sr. Charista Maria: Isaiah 66:10 (oops)
01:11:35 Una: Sorry if this is a stupid question, but how does same sex attraction figure with these young boys?
01:12:43 Mary Clare Wax: Reacted to "Isaiah 66:10 (oops)" with 👍
01:12:56 Mary Clare Wax: Reacted to "It is interesting ho..." with ❤️
01:13:06 Mary Clare Wax: Reacted to "Sorry if this is a s..." with 👍
01:14:28 Sr. Charista Maria: Reacted to "Sorry if this is a s..." with 👍
01:17:21 Joseph Muir: The editors note, that immediately follows the last reading, from Ephrem, addresses some of the cultural contexts
01:17:27 Rebecca Thérèse: I heard an expert say that homosexuality used to be something people did now it's something they are which makes it seem immutable.
01:17:28 Sr. Charista Maria: yes, there can be a danger with an emotional bond between a mentor and other.
01:17:49 Sr. Charista Maria: I've heard it said our bonding area is near the genital area.
01:20:11 Mary Clare Wax: The evil one is quite an expert in drawing spiritual friendships into something other.
01:20:52 Sr. Charista Maria: I already posted
01:25:24 Anthony: The Church has been continually berated for its conduct in regard to so many different groups - which is exaggerated - and that hammers at the resolve to BE Christian.
01:26:33 Una: Thanks for spelling this subject out in detail. I know we'll probably be revisiting it as we go along.
01:27:19 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You ! Blessing
01:27:35 Sr. Charista Maria: Fr. Charbel, thank you for your classes. They are a wealth of blessings in delving more deeply into the early Church desert Fathers.
01:27:44 Mary Clare Wax: Reacted to "Fr. Charbel, thank y..." with 👍
01:28:14 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
01:28:16 ANDREW ADAMS: Thanks be to God! Thank you, Father!
01:28:27 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father.
01:28:42 Sheila Applegate: Thanks Father!
Again, already in these first paragraphs of Homily One what comes forward most powerfully in Saint Isaac‘s writing is that the ascetic life is driven by love and desire for God. More accurately, one might say that it is the soul’s response to God‘s revelation of His love, mercy and compassion to us in His only begotten Son.
Therefore, Isaac can speak of things such as shame not in the sense of diminishing an individual’s self-identity but rather as a veil protecting the mind and the heart for Christ alone. As one purifies the heart one begins to see with a greater clarity those things that can diminish one’s capacity to love and to see that which is good in God and others. Thus, while shame mortifies us it also protects us from being led indiscriminately by our thoughts and desires.
One of the blessings that God has given to us in order to purify the heart is the scriptures. We are exhorted to have a fervent love of instruction; to fill the mind and the heart with the words and deeds of Christ. In doing so we create a new habit of mind that directs the soul toward God in such a way that we put behind us and even forget everything that is a distraction from this greater reality. We are surrounded by the noise of the world and in kind of thoughtless fashion we allow ourselves to be led away from what endures unto eternity or what is uplifting. However, when the mind is captivated by the divine word, it can be filled with such wonder that it becomes unaware of even thoughts that are associated with our basic human needs - when our last meal was or how the night has passed away so quickly.
The ascetic life, therefore, is not about self perfection or endurance. Rather, it is a recognition of our identity in Christ. We are made in the image and likeness of God and by his grace and his redemptive love we are being drawn into the very life of the Holy Trinity. Isaac’s homilies are an invitation to enter into the wondrous depths of God’s love.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:14:37 Bob Čihák, AZ: P. 115 paragraph 15 from start of homily
00:28:16 Jamie Hickman: Sorry, I had trouble with the keyboard...regarding the last paragraph that begins "Not he is chaste who...": just wanted to say that the saint we are reading would be guarding his own thoguhts, but I wonder: can we say confidently that he doesn't judge another? Instead, can we assume he regrets that another has fallen prey to evil one by not preserving his purity in thought, word, or action? My purpose: guarding our purity seems to include guarding us from judging others...something I struggle with for sure, shamefully!
00:30:53 Jamie Hickman: Thank you, Father 🤝
00:32:39 Anthony: Father, how does this differ from "quietism?"
00:39:34 Jessica Imanaka: Would Saint Isaac have memorized most of scripture? I wonder if such memorization would also facilitate driving out worldly memories.
00:43:12 Christian Corulli: How can one avoid being like the older brother of the prodigal son parable in all this? It is so easy to work and focus on ourselves and our own perfection in the spiritual life... there seems to be a fine line where we cross over into fixation on ourselves in the spiritual life.
00:48:52 Christian Corulli: Thanks 🙏
00:48:55 Alex Underwood: It is so profound that God offers us this practice of asceticism and hesychasm… these homilies are almost like an owner’s manual, that sadly not many people have. Yet it seems as if Isaac is saying that really everything he has found and has been shown about this practice can be deduced from the scriptures, if only one would look.
00:52:35 Ryan Ngeve: Father, if we memorize the scriptures as St. Isaac describes, how different are we from the Pharisees and where does the grace of God come to play in understanding and living the scripture?
00:53:46 Anthony: The new Syriac Divine Office book ("Book of Before and After") arranged by Fr Andrew Younan is pretty nice, especially while reading St Isaac the Syrian.
00:54:02 Alex Underwood: Reacted to "The new Syriac Divin..." with 👍
00:55:28 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "The new Syriac Divin..." with 👍
00:56:01 Jamie Hickman: Reacted to "The new Syriac Div..." with 🙏
00:57:16 Catherine Opie: I joined a class to study the Pentateuch and was surprised to find out that even though I had read the Bible several times I had never fully understood underlying meanings, patterns of language and numbers and foreshadowing within the scriptures in quite the same way it has opened up to me through doing this
00:58:02 Catherine Opie: Sorry pressed enter without thinking
01:00:14 Myles Davidson: Fr. Agapetos YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/@FatherAgapetos
01:00:24 Catherine Opie: Reacted to "Fr. Agapetos YouTube..." with 🙏🏻
01:00:51 Lori Hatala: Reacted to "Fr. Agapetos YouTube..." with 🙏🏻
01:01:18 Jonathan Wiseman: Reacted to "Fr. Agapetos YouTube..." with 🙏🏻
01:09:57 Julie: Reacted to "Fr. Agapetos YouTube…" with 🙏
01:10:15 Alex Underwood: “To suffice the mind firmly to pinion it’s thoughts to a single thought of wonder”
01:10:31 Julie: Reacted to "The new Syriac Divin…" with 🙏
01:10:44 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "“To suffice the mind..." with 🔥
01:12:02 Jamie Hickman: Reacted to "“To suffice the m..." with 👁️
01:12:23 Jessica Imanaka: Reacted to "“To suffice the mind..." with ❤️
01:12:24 Christian Corulli: Reacted to “To suffice the mind... with "🔥"
01:12:36 Jamie Hickman: thank you as always, Father
01:12:40 Alex Underwood: Excellent insight, thank you
01:12:57 cameron: Thank you Fr
01:13:37 Julie: God bless you are in my prayers 🙏🏻
01:13:38 Ben: Thank you very much, Father! God & Mary keep you.
01:13:41 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
01:13:47 Elizabeth Richards: Amen 🙏🏼
01:13:51 Jamie Hickman: wow!
01:13:52 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you Father!
01:13:57 Rachel: Thanks be to God!
01:14:06 Rachel: Thank you
01:14:25 David: Thank you Father!
01:14:36 paul g.: God Bless Father
01:14:37 Catherine Opie: Thank you
“And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.“ As we read through the stories of the desert fathers and the trials and temptations they experienced in relation to their passions, we began to see with greater clarity how we must cling to God and rely on His grace. No matter how disciplined or virtuous an individual may be the wiles of the devil are always going to be relentless and fierce. If the Evil One can appear as an “angel of light”, then he most assuredly can present a thought to the mind that leads one to assent to sin or present himself as the very object of temptation. In the stories of the fathers tonight, the object of temptation was women or thoughts about them that arise through direct contact, conversation or imagination.
It would be very easy for us and it is often a danger when the Fathers are read out of context to have our thoughts devolve into a negative anthropology - a negative image of what it is to be a human being as well as a sexual being. In hearing some of the stories, one might think that the monks simply sought to destroy this part of themselves or to bury it whether consciously or unconsciously. Perhaps it was simply a manifestation of masochistic repression.
Thus, we must read these stories in a discerning fashion. Yet, even more so, we must read them in context; not only in the context of the larger corpus of the writings we are considering, but in the context of our spiritual lives. For it is only within our own hearts that we begin to understand the nature of human desire as part of our identity and experience of the world. It is also only within our hearts that we understand that desire gives us the capacity to love and give ourselves in love. The ascetic life must reveal that we understand that we are created in the image and likeness of God and that with which He has endowed us is good. It only becomes destructive when it is distorted by sin and selfishness. We must also understand that these desires are very powerful – capable of leading us to great good or, outside of the grace of God, to become something that brings us unending grief.
We must read the Fathers writings, then, within the context of interiorizing the worldview rooted in faith that they put forward. Do we desire what they desired? Are longing for God and the desire to please him the reality that drives us forward in our day-to-day lives? Do we understand that it is only by living in the grace of God, living in Christ, that we become fully human?
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Text of chat during the group:
00:19:21 Bob Čihák, AZ: P. 221 # D
00:28:08 Rebecca Thérèse: Do you think that lack of asceticism is a cause of clergy or monks perpetrating abuse or could it an indicator that perhaps abusers have entered these vocations/occupations with nefarious motives hence they would not be committed to the more challenging aspects of these ways of life?
01:01:49 Forrest Cavalier: Father, I expected to see the mention that desire for sexual relations outside of matrimony is irrational selfishness (especially victimizing women and offspring), and use the contemplation of that realization to dissuade the passions. But I haven’t noticed that in any of these stories so far, which combat the temptation with physical activity (fasting, fleeing, burning) only. Am I missing it? It seems the intellect is ignored.
01:06:47 Mary Clare Wax: The tender love of a perfect Mother, the Mother of God, and consecrating ourselves to her Immaculate Heart is very powerful in this day and age. When we do this, it is like riding the waves of grace rather than being tumbled underneath them.
01:07:11 Sr. Charista Maria: Reacted to "The tender love of a..." with 👍
01:09:09 Sr. Charista Maria: It seems that the more one grows in purity of heart and human/spiritual integration, the less one has such intense struggle or temptation when with a beautiful young woman or a young boy. I believe Pope St. John Paul II's Theology of the Body is a great aid to this. And, yes, I believe our Holy Mother and the Rosary are a GREAT aid!
01:09:47 Catherine Opie: Reacted to "The tender love of a..." with ❤️
01:13:37 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "It seems that the mo..." with 🙏🏼
01:15:03 Adam Paige: Reacted to "It seems that the mo..." with 📿
01:15:22 Adam Paige: Reacted to "The tender love of a..." with 🧕
01:15:42 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Father, I expected t..." with 🧠
01:15:44 Catherine Opie: Reacted to "It seems that the mo..." with 🙏🏻
01:20:34 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You Blessing
01:21:08 Mary Clare Wax: Reacted to "It seems that the mo..." with ❤️
01:21:11 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
01:21:12 Catherine Opie: Thank you Fr.
Holy inebriation! We are to become drunk with faith. For those inebriated with alcohol there is often a loss of the capacity to think about things or see things clearly. For those inebriated with faith, there is a loss of sight of the things of this world and attraction to them because one’s gaze is fixed upon the Beloved. Love alone draws the soul forward. Indeed, it is by the grace of God that we make that initial turn towards Him and so begin to see with a greater clarity the inconstancy that sin brings into our life and the healing, the hope, and the joy that faith alone provides.
Our senses and our natural faculties that we use constantly to perceive the world around us often become a source of distortion because of the weakening of our will and the darkening of our intellect. And even if these faculties should function perfectly, they still are incapable of comprehending God as he is in himself.
When faith begins to grow, we begin to see the presence of God in all things and his Providence acting on our behalf. Love, seeks union and communion and perfect Love is present in our lives in a transformative fashion. We need not fear affliction, poverty, or the hatred of others knowing that we are loved with a perfect love. We are never in isolation when we are in Christ through faith and the grace that he provides us. The inconstancy of sin is replaced with the stability and fearlessness of faith. The world can take everything from us, including our honor, and yet we find no loss in it. With St Paul we count all things as refuse in comparison to knowing Jesus Christ and him crucified. Isaac wants a to understand the need to be fully immersed in this love, to be inebriated by it and permeated by it so that it shapes our entire existence.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:02:32 Paisios: Baptismal. One moment I'll get headphones.
00:09:33 Una: I see we have a dog and cat in attendance tonight
00:09:45 Una: Very Franciscan
00:09:59 Una: Are they keen on Isaac?
00:14:26 Bob Čihák, AZ: P. 114, # 7
00:16:53 Paisios: Reacted to "Are they keen on I..." with ❤️
00:22:00 Eric Jobe: There is an emphasis here on “perception” (rgeshta), which he repeats, a perception of the power of faith versus the perception of visible matter. I think this keys into the notion of being drunk. When we are drunk, we lose perception. If we are drunk with faith, we lose perception of worldly things and become perceptive to spiritual things.
00:22:07 Una: How does this paragraph fit with the essence/energy ?
00:23:10 Una: Thank you
00:23:40 Jamie: Reacted to "There is an emphas..." with 👍
00:23:42 Lee Graham: Reacted to "There is an emphasis…" with ❤️
00:27:50 Alex Underwood: Reacted to "There is an emphasis..." with 👍
00:36:46 Bob Čihák, AZ: Just over the last few days, my nous perceived than I am a reflection of God in that He created me in His “image and likeness.” Other people are also blessed in this way. I’m seeing Christ more easily in others.
00:37:18 Rachel L.: Is it wrong then,to want to be comfortable around people, want friends, and have relationships with others outside of my family?
00:37:50 Anthony: Our parish priest said something very important: it is very difficult to commit a mortal sin.
This counters a tendency to fear we will lose God, that is kind of common among "traditional" ways of thinking.
00:37:58 Rachel L.: I'm confused about the practical application of this
00:42:35 Eric Jobe: St. Isaac makes a contrast between fear of death and fear of God (who destroys death by death). It seems we are controlled by one or the other, as if some type of fear is necessary. Why? Perhaps because we lack perfect love that “casts out all fear”. I believe it is something that Diadochos of Photiki talks about in Philokalia Vol. 1.
00:42:44 Joshua Sander: I've been reading commentary on the book of Job, and it seems to correspond well to this paragraph, especially demanding investigation due to a lack of faith, and then moving from that to a faith that is born of grace and viewing God relationally rather than legalistically. Do Isaac or any of the other Fathers view Job's journey in this way?
00:45:14 Catherine Opie: Reacted to "There is an emphasis..." with ❤️
00:45:45 Kate : Is this trust in the providence of God something that we bring about in ourselves, or is it a grace that we must pray and beg God to give to us?
00:56:36 Art: This paragraph calls to mind St John of the Cross “…if the desire of the will be dispersed among other things than virtue, it must be weaker as regards virtue. And thus the soul whose will is set upon various trifles is like water…never rises.” Ascent of Mt Carmel.
00:59:50 Paisios: "Silence is the womb of wisdom"
01:00:07 Paisios: I don't
01:11:13 Kathleen: Can’t find raise hand. But can you elaborate more on #13? Examples? Perhaps next week if no time.
01:14:00 Una: Look under "reactions" on the tool bar on the bottom. It's an icon of a heart
01:14:20 Una: Right beside "chat"
01:15:00 Anthony: Sorry I can't find the raise hand button. I sense now the same sense of rage and vengeance as in 2001
01:17:19 Myles Davidson: Replying to "Can’t find raise han..."
Maybe repost your question so Fr. sees it
01:19:03 Paisios: In my rage, whose heart will I change?
01:19:25 Jessica Imanaka: Reacted to "In my rage, whose he..." with 👍
01:19:43 Carol Roper: Reacted to "In my rage, whose he…" with 👍
01:20:04 Edward Kleinguetl: “God’s love is powerful enough to heal everything, but you must find the courage to decide to pass through the ‘narrow gate’ of forgiveness. This choice is more demanding than the spontaneous reaction of resentment and accusation, but it is a decision in favor of true life.” (Fr. Jacques Philippe)
01:20:28 Elizabeth Richards: Reacted to "“God’s love is power..." with ❤️
01:20:32 Fr. Miron Kerul-Kmec Jr.: Reacted to "“God’s love is power..." with ❤️
01:20:54 Mary Clare Wax: I think of the movie, "The Mission," where some of the priests decided to fight back, and in the end, they were all killed. It was a very sad thing to see. I so hoped they would change their minds and pray until the end like the Superior of the Jesuits did.
01:23:28 Edward Kleinguetl: Reacted to "I think of the movie..." with ❤️
01:23:52 Edward Kleinguetl: Reacted to "In my rage, whose he..." with 👍
01:25:42 Catherine Opie: Since I have become Catholic and humbled myself before God the anxiety and restlessness I always felt has disappeared. Now I find I am even more humbled by becoming an outsider in my family and with old friends because of this choice. I feel grief but not anxiety. Because
01:25:58 Gina Marie: Reacted to "“God’s love is power..." with ❤️
01:26:24 Tracey Fredman: Reacted to "Since I have become ..." with ❤️
01:27:04 ANDREW ADAMS: Thanks be to God! Thank you, Father!
01:27:07 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
01:27:13 Gina Marie: Thank you, Father!
01:27:17 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you!
01:27:20 Joe: Thank you Fr. Charbel
01:27:23 paul g.: Excellent tonite
01:27:25 David: Thank you Father. May you be blessed with good health
01:27:50 Catherine Opie: Thank you Fr.
01:28:25 David: Meeting Planner – Find best time across Time Zones
Fear and hope! These are the two realities that are put before us by the writings of the fathers on the struggle with lust and fornication. They are hard stories to listen to for in them we begin to see the poverty of man and what we are capable of doing not only in our lesser moments, but when we turn away from God in the slightest fashion. Whatever one’s religious identity might be or how vigorously one has embraced the ascetic life, what brings an individual to the depths of sin is hubris; trusting in our own understanding or following our own desires in such a way that we put ourselves in God to the test.
Thus, the stories should give rise to fear within our hearts in order that we might place our trust only in God and cling to him through constant prayer. However, we are also give that which provides hope of salvation through the very same stories. God does not abandon us even when we have turned away from him. He will use every means possible (other people or affliction) to draw us back to himself. He will turn the world upside down if it gives rise to a spirit of repentance within our hearts. It is this repentance that draws us out of the mire.
The fathers are quick to instruct us that we are not to abhor human sexuality or members of the opposite sex. However, we must respect the power of natural desire, especially when it is paired with concupiscence. The darkness brought to our minds because of our sin often leads us to objectify the other; to lose sight of their dignity and to focus simply on ourselves and the satisfying of our needs. The fathers would have us understand the great power of the demons. We are told in one story this evening where all of the forest in the place were consumed by the flame that came from the serpent being cast out. We must understand, then, that we are not simply struggling with our natural defects and flaws but rather with principalities and powers.
Sin is a fearful thing and true faith allows us to see its ugliness and destructiveness. This same faith allows us to see the only source of our true hope – Christ. With humility let us cry out to him that he might show us his abundant mercy.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:38:06 Forrest Cavalier: Hard topic1
00:38:59 Forrest Cavalier: I've heard bits and pieces of what you have said, from different people, who were not prelates. The 1970's approach of trying a cure was disastrous.
00:54:15 Forrest Cavalier: Teach us to strive from the pulpit. Hebrews 12:9-12 Besides this, we have had our earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them. Should we not [then] submit all the more to the Father of spirits and live? They disciplined us for a short time as seemed right to them, but he does so for our benefit, in order that we may share his holiness. At the time, all discipline seems a cause not for joy but for pain, yet later it brings the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who are trained by it.e
00:59:41 Forrest Cavalier: A fire poker
01:00:43 Maureen Cunningham: If he would have fell and a chid would came then he could not be a church Father . What would happen
01:04:32 Anthony: I worked for a firm that worked in divorces and in child protection....even in the Bible Belt, divorce is a SERIOUS problem. We don't have much understanding beyond flesh, and that is reinforced by ads and movies and cartoons and songs.
01:08:49 Maureen Cunningham: Always a Blessing Thank You
01:09:36 ANDREW ADAMS: Thanks be to God! Thank you, Father!
01:09:36 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
01:09:51 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father.
01:12:09 Maureen Cunningham: Yay for you Father , and for all those who listen
01:13:06 Arthur Danzi: Thank you, father
How we begin something often determines how it will develop in later stages and the fruit that it will bear. Thus, Saint Isaac tells us, that the beginning of the path of life is our immersion in the word of God and to live in poverty. This is strikingly unlike how other ascetic/mystical writers begin speaking about the discipline of virtue. Isaac immediately encourages us to take the focus off of ourselves, of our own judgment of the world as well as to remove our attachment to the things of this world. Our identity is rooted in God. We have been made in his image and likeness and we only find the fulfillment of love and life for which our hearts long in him. To exercise the mind in the words of God is not like reading a book on history. It is opening the heart to receive the fullness of what God has revealed to us and when we approach this word in faith and silence, it allows God to speak a word that is equal to himself. It allows that Divine word to be born in our hearts. This encounter is what transforms us and fills the heart with desire for what we are promised in Christ; that is, theosis, deification, being made one is with God by grace. The more this desire grows within us the less we are attached to the things of this world. We seek to simplify our lives. To become poor in the things of this world allows us to become rich in that which endures. Free from the anxiety that our attachment to the things of this world brings we are able to immerse ourselves in the eternal word of God. Lacking this, Isaac tells us, no one can draw close to God. The more occupied we are with the things of the world the more susceptible we become to the passions. When we surround ourselves with the noise of the world all of the senses are flooded and we are in a constant state of receptivity. Thus, we become less receptive to the one thing necessary and that is sanctifying. What we find in Isaac then and what makes his writing so captivating is his understanding that love is the most powerful source of motivation and transformation. It is Christ who raises us up out of the poverty of our sin and when we have Him, as St paul reminds us, everything else appears to be mere refuse.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:07:20 Una: Where is the hand button?
00:07:58 Una: Mine is a heart icon
00:10:21 Una: I feel like Isaac the way I felt when I first discovered the Bible. Total immersion
00:11:48 Una: Replying to "I feel like Isaac ..."
I have not been able to stop listening to the audiobook
00:11:53 Bob Čihák, AZ: P. 113, # 4
00:11:55 Daniel Allen: i am but my camera and mic aren't working
00:11:57 Daniel Allen: yes
00:11:59 Daniel Allen: confirmed
00:12:13 Daniel Allen: on a laptop instead of ipad tonight and i can't seem to figure out zoom on this
00:12:34 Daniel Allen: not sure if you can see my typing
00:13:07 Bob Čihák, AZ: P. 113, # 4
00:16:56 Bob Čihák, AZ: P. 113, # 4
00:29:27 Kathleen: Rationale thought
00:34:38 Lee Graham: No
00:46:20 Maureen Cunningham: I find everyone seems so Angry these days.
00:46:40 Maureen Cunningham: Silence is the only way
00:51:16 Daniel Allen: It's hard to leave Christ for Christ, to see it as such. As a parent, sometimes the last thing you want is a kid asking you a question, or really anyone needing you. And inevitably when you try to find time to pray, that's when you're needed without fail. The natural reaction, especially after awhile, can be frustration. So to "leave Christ for Christ" is a challenging thing to actually do.
00:54:20 Joshua Sander: Forgive my question for going back a paragraph in the text, but when Isaac speaks of "the word of God," is he simply speaking of the formal canon of Scripture, or is he extending this to the holy writings of the Fathers as well?
00:56:36 Catherine Opie: Reacted to "It's hard to leave C..." with ❤️
01:00:14 Anthony: If St Neri is an example, this becoming prayer comes gradually, organically. It isn't grasped at with ambition.
01:00:41 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "If St Neri is an exa..." with 👍🏼
01:07:09 Nick Bodmer: We are amusing ourselves to death
01:08:16 The Recovery Community Hub of PBC, Inc.: At our wedding our priest had this line that stuck with me, that every single struggle in marriage will ultimately lead to the cultivation of a virtue that each of the spouses needs to attain heaven
01:08:36 Alex Underwood: It seems like Isaac’s concept of “separation” here could be a direct lesson from and emulation of Jesus when he would remove himself into the wilderness or desert to pray and commune with the Father?
01:18:36 Kevin Burke: Thank You Father, this is awesome !
01:18:38 Elizabeth Richards: Thank you Father!
01:18:41 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You
01:18:44 santiagobua: Thank you Father!!
01:18:46 Nypaver Clan: Sorry to disagree with Lord Byron…If I thought “marriage was hell” I wouldn’t have stuck with it for 41 years. 🥰
01:18:47 Una: That's very tempting to do Isaac more than once a week
01:18:52 Francisco Ingham: Thank you father!
01:18:52 Una: What about Friday?
01:18:53 Daniel Allen: Thank you Father!
01:19:32 ANDREW ADAMS: Thanks be to God! Thank you, Father!
01:19:35 Joe Mugo: Thank you Father.
01:19:37 Bob Čihák, AZ: Bless you, Father!
01:19:37 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
01:19:56 Catherine Opie: That sounds wonderful
01:20:01 Elizabeth Richards: Lenten group sounds good!!
01:20:03 Anthony: Ok sounds good.
01:20:04 Maureen Cunningham: Ok Saturday is wonderful
01:20:07 ANDREW ADAMS: That sounds great!
01:20:09 Kevin Burke: Reacted to "Ok sounds good." with 👌
01:20:14 Dave Warner | AL: Thank you Father! Would like to participate in a Lenten group.
01:20:17 Joe Mugo: Reacted to "Ok sounds good." with 👌
01:20:17 Catherine Opie: 🙏🏻
As we are drawn more deeply into the spiritual warfare of the Desert fathers and learn from their stories of how the demons will provoke a soul and lure it into sin, we begin to see how important it is to put on the mind of Christ; that is, to embrace fully the mindset of the person of faith and the life that we are meant to embody. One of the beautiful aspects of the Evergetinos is that it does not simply present us with teachings but also with the concrete struggle of the fathers and the nature and subtlely of demonic provocation.
We begin to understand that there is no room for pride in the spiritual life. In particular with the passion of fornication, it is the coward who is the victor; that is, he who flees. Our strength is found only in the Lord and clinging to him. We must have no illusion about the strength of our virtue, no matter how long we have engaged in the spiritual life or how virtuous we may seem to be. “Pride rideth before the fall”.
We also see in these stories how the demons sing out to the soul in order to present the temptation as the most attractive and beautiful of things. They can draw even the most seasoned of ascetics into a kind of crazed frenzy or mania. Therefore, we are taught that we must turn immediately to the Lord, raising our hands to the heavens and falling on our knees, begging for his protection.
The demons will show no mercy. In fact, their goal is not simply to draw an individual into sin, but also to draw them into despair where repentance is stymied. After a fall, they become the soul’s accuser and will even use scripture to mock her in such a way as to drive her into greater darkness. Their desire is to make us lose confidence in the mercy and compassion of God.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:05:21 Bob Cihak: P. 212 # 8
00:13:45 Bob Cihak: P. 212 # 8
00:20:40 Wayne: What page?
00:20:53 Nypaver Clan: 213
00:21:00 Nypaver Clan: top
00:21:05 Wayne: thanks
00:28:27 Fr Marty, AZ 480-292-3381: It's interesting to consider that we can till the soil for this temptation by giving into other passions. Just reminds me to be vigilant, especially in how I consider others. And in fleeing too. Valuable insight to help me realize that I'm not as blindsided as I thought but I'd been opening doors to weaken me in temptation.
00:32:14 Anthony: Sometimes it takes getting sick and tired of the situation to develop a contempt for it.
00:35:04 Fr Marty, AZ 480-292-3381: Did you say the mindset is called phronema?
00:35:48 Kate : The mindset you describe is like nothing I have ever heard or experienced being a Latin Rite Catholic.
00:39:49 Anthony: The West co.es by it honestly...having to know by size, weight a day number, which medieval texts extrapolate I think from Sirach. I prefer St Ephrem's poem on the Hidden Pearl taken as a unity.
00:40:12 Anthony: Comes
00:42:19 Nina and Sparky: Phil 2:2 πληρώσατέ μου τὴν χαρὰν ἵνα τὸ αὐτὸ φρονῆτε "fill up my cup of happiness by thinking with the same mind" See the last greek word phronete. In modern writing, I have heard the phrase "according to the mind of the church"
00:42:25 Myles Davidson: The word “re-enchantment” is being used more amongst some Catholic circles. The need to return to a more poetic pre-Cartesian worldview
00:44:00 Anthony: Reacted to The word “re-enchant... with "👍"
00:44:11 Nina and Sparky: Sorry, it is me, Forrest Cavalier.
00:51:36 Myles Davidson: The Jesus Prayer is the fastest way to shake off unwanted thoughts, in my experience.
01:04:33 Anthony: But if we can trust what demons say (something I really don't like) their mockery gave a clue of the problem....Exaltation by arrogance. So, do the opposite.
01:08:20 Fr Marty, AZ 480-292-3381: This seems to reveal that the devil's plan is more than just sin, from which we can again stand and receive forgiveness, but the devil, through sin stirred by pride, attempts to poison our mind into despair or to forget God and his love for us and our vocation.
01:09:56 Anthony: The devil made himself a bastard in relation to the Creator and wants to bastardize and neuter us.
01:14:26 ANDREW ADAMS: Thanks be to God! Thank you, Father!
01:14:28 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
01:14:34 Bob Cihak: Bless you, Father.
01:14:55 Bob Cihak: I forgive you.
It bears saying that we find ourselves upon a privileged path as we begin this new journey with Saint Isaac the Syrian. To have access to his writings and access to such a translation in the West is a recent phenomenon and one not to be taken lightly. Further it is often said that Isaac is the greatest of the Desert Fathers in that through his writings one can move from being a novice in the spiritual life to the heights of contemplation.
Immediately, one discovers that Isaac is unique and distinctive in his manner of approaching the spiritual life. He appeals to our capacity in faith to comprehend divine love and what has been revealed to us through Christ. It is what we comprehend in faith that fills the heart with wonder; that we are embraced by a love that never ends and that only seeks to raise us up out of the darkness of sin to the fullness of light. Isaac understands that, made in the image and likeness of God, we are going to be driven by desire; that is, a sense of lack and incompleteness. God has made us for himself and we only find our identity and the fullness for which we long in him.
Our struggle is our attachment to the things of this world, including our own ego – the self. There are so many things that vie for our attention that the “one thing necessary” is often pushed out to the margins of our life or out of mind altogether. The love out of which we have been created and the lavish love through which we have been redeemed is often supplanted by that which eventually turns to dust.
Our awareness of this should produce within us a fear that creates a movement toward God. Repentance is simply or acting on that awareness; turning away from our sin and our attachment to the things of this world and opening ourselves up to the healing grace and mercy of God. It is for this reason that Isaac does not focus on the development of virtue and the overcoming of vice as others do. For ultimately, we are not seeking the perfection of natural virtue or even to exceed what we understand as the heights of virtue. Rather, we are to understand the ascetic life is radically tied to being “in Christ”. In other words, the radical transformation that takes place through the grace that we receive through baptism, the Eucharist, and through the gift of the Holy Spirit leads to our participation in the life of the Trinity. Deification is what has been promised to those of faith. It is divine humility, divine love, divine compassion, and divine vulnerability that we are to embody. This takes place not through raw grit but rather through abandonment to Christ in a spirit of humility. As we let go of the illusion of self identity, independent of Christ, the true self begins to emerge.
Thus if we take anything away from this evening’s discussion and reflection it should be the sense of wonder and desire that Isaac seeks to cultivate within the human heart. Love alone endures and the desire it produces inflames the heart to pursue the Beloved and the Life of the Kingdom.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:15:34 Bob Cihak: Father's Substack comments are another blessing for me. The come by email to me, several times daily and are beautifully succinct, most of the time.
00:17:15 Sr. Mary Clare: Thank you, Father!
00:36:18 Ren Witter: Sr. Barbara - would you mind sending your question to the whole group in the chat so that the people reading/listening to the podcast know what you asked? (I think your question must have been sent directly to Fr. Charbel).
00:36:30 mflory: The whole first paragraph is a chain of practices/virtues: reflection on the “restitution” (providence/the second coming) leads to withdrawal from the world which leads to control of thoughts which leads to faith which leads to fear of God which leads to virtue.
00:36:33 Jamie: Reacted to "Sr. Barbara - woul..." with 👍
00:37:26 mflory: Mark
00:38:37 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Sentence two begins with "It" - referring to fear of the Lord or to faith?
00:38:42 Eric Jobe: Some comments:
The fear of God - it strikes me like the Freudio-Lacanian notion of symbolic castration, whereby we are inscribed into the divine order of virtue.
In Syriac, St. Isaac specifically says that one “takes the opportunity to withdraw his mind from the world” This is important I think - we have an opportunity that we must deliberately take.
…
00:39:21 Ren Witter: Reacted to " Sentence two begins..." with 👍🏼
00:40:19 Eric Jobe: This “reflection on the restitution to come” is more evocative in the Syriac. There is a kind of dazzling imagination - sharagragriatha. And “restitution” is the order of the age to come - tuqana. It is a positive thing to meditate on imaginatively, not the judgment to come.
00:41:15 Josh: Would it be possible to get a link to the copy of the book that is being used? I missed the email that may've said it.
00:41:47 Ren Witter: https://www.bostonmonks.com/product_info.php/products_id/635/?srsltid=AfmBOorJmXoZG7njKJoH-E9BPgTnoNHhClUY3JtkWMW_1R4AAeZ_fCRp
00:41:47 ANDREW ADAMS: Replying to "Would it be possible..."
https://www.bostonmonks.com/product_info.php/cPath/75_105/products_id/635
00:41:55 Jamie: Can we interpret fear as aligned with awe? By that I mean: fear implies awareness of unknown about the object we fear. God is the ultimate mystery...we can't know him perfectly, so the fear is a healthy appreciation for "other". It's living in the reality that God is entirely other than creation. We appreciate how utterly other God is as object, so we fear God in awe and wonder. We will never fully know God, even as we grow in intimacy with him, so we continue to fear / awe God. It's a healthy thing. Is this a workable interpretation? If this is workable, it would seem the beginning of virtue is to appreciate God as not me, akin to he must increase and I must decrease. It's a fear that leads me closer to God -- not driven away, because this Utterly Other is the object who can provide for me all my needs.
00:42:04 Niño: I think the modern day problem is that we often associate the Love for God with emotionalism or sensationalism ...but like what you said father..the discipline, the virtues are ways of showing and increasing our love for God
00:42:05 David: Is the focus on fear of the lord similar to training wheels to focus our attention on God and push away the work of the evil thoughts often using fear. I see later writings say once you have mastered the fear then you focus on love of God and each moment and expression of love possibly leaving fear like training wheels behind?
00:42:07 Josh: Replying to "Would it be possible..."
Thank you!
00:42:15 Josh: Replying to "https://www.bostonmo..."
Thank you!
00:43:21 Eric Jobe: Replying to " Sentence two begins..."
“Fear” most likely. It’s ambiguous in Syriac, but “fear” is the grammatical topic.
00:44:16 Ren Witter: Standard procedure for questions: If you have a question you would like Fr. Charnel to respond to in the group, please type your question, and then “raise your hand.” Once Father sees the hand, and calls your name, send the message.
00:45:47 Anthony: So "restitution" is like "restoration."
00:45:54 Niño: Reacted to So "restitution" is ... with "❤️"
00:46:12 Jamie: Reacted to "Standard procedure..." with 👍
00:48:09 Anthony: A spirituality of "The Song of Songs."
00:48:34 Jamie: Reacted to "So "restitution" i..." with ✍️
00:50:34 Gina Marie: Reacted to "Standard procedure f..." with 👍
00:50:45 Rebecca Thérèse: I don't know about Syriac but in biblical Hebrew (a closely related Semitic language) "fear" as in "the fear of the Lord" can also be translated "reverence".
00:57:39 Anthony: $ for land too. 😉
00:58:08 Ryan Ngeve: Father is there a connection between Isaac’s phrase on the fear of God and proverbs 9:10?
00:59:04 David: Reacted to "Father is there a co..." with 👍
00:59:35 Nick Bodmer: People are realizing that they aren't fulfilled, so they are trying all these things to have a chance to fill the void within themselves.
01:00:22 Niño: Reacted to People are realizing... with "❤️"
01:01:48 Eric Jobe: “Contain himself” could be translated from Syriac as “recollects”, which brings up the prodigal son as well as the myriad of statements of the Fathers on the notion of recollection.
01:04:00 Eric Jobe: “Honor” is plural in the Syriac. It likely refers to many instances of others giving honor, like we may say in English: “He received many honors from the military.”
01:06:07 Jamie: In his high priestly prayer, Jesus prays that the Father would glorify him. Jesus can handle being honored, but he does NOT seek honor from men...he seeks it from his heavenly Father. If we are to imitate God in fear, healthy appreciate and awe for God as the provider of all our needs, then we should seek the glory God wishes to give us, which likely means Cross in this world and heavenly paradise in the next (because heaven we will see him face to face...the ultimate honor).
01:07:19 Catherine Eisenbrandt: Father how do you tell the difference between when you need to be obedient and accept “good” active things as service and when not to engage
01:12:13 Niño: Without Love for God, there is no real love for neighbor
Christ showed His love for us by dying on the cross to save us from sin death and hell... Therefore the Love of a neighbor also means to admonish them of obvious sin and to help them, if they are willing, to go to confession
01:13:49 St. Stanislaus Kostka Religious Education: Next Sunday's Gospel includes being concerned more abou the splinter in the other's eye rather than the beam in our own.
01:17:04 maureencunningham: Thank You Father Blessing
01:17:21 Jamie: Reacted to "Thank You Father ..." with 🙏
01:17:40 Niño: Salamat Padre (Thank you Father-Filipino language)
01:18:34 Julie’s iPhone: Thank you Father
You are in my prayers
01:18:53 Laura: Reacted to "Thank you Father
Yo..." with 👍🏼
01:19:14 ANDREW ADAMS: Thanks be to God! Thank you, Father!
01:19:15 Dave Warner | AL: Thank you Father!
01:19:16 David: Thank you Father. God bless you and your mother!
01:19:17 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
01:19:24 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you!
01:19:25 Mari: Thank you
01:19:31 Tommie’s iPhone: Glory to Jesus Christ
01:19:32 Gina Marie: Thank you, Father!
01:19:35 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Thank you!
01:19:45 Ben: Thank you, Father! God bless.
Once again, we are blessed by the practical counsel of the fathers in regard to the struggle with the passion of lust and fornication. What becomes evident is that the struggle is primarily with the thoughts and how we address them in our lives. The origin of such thoughts may be from ourselves and our own memories, what we experience with our senses in the present moment or from demonic provocation. Whatever their origin, our asceticism must be such that we are willing to lay all such thoughts aside in preference for remaining in stillness with our focus set upon Christ.
It is always best not to engage the thoughts that rush upon us understanding that we will be overwhelmed, especially if their origin is from the demons. We are not to argue or wrestle with the thoughts but rather call upon the holy name of our Lord and to plead for his help and strength.
This is the source of our healing, even in ways that we do not comprehend. The more we call upon the Lord, the deeper the healing becomes and the more free we become from our attachment to the things of this world. The Jesus Prayer in particular can be used as a gentle weapon to cut away the thoughts as they come upon us. When we are able, it is beneficial to say the prayer in an audible fashion making use of multiple senses. Having a chotki in hand as we say the Prayer and making prostrations repeatedly involves the whole self in the spiritual battle. When we humble ourselves in mind and body before God, He rushes to our aid.
Thus, humility, vigilance and constancy of prayer must be the foundation of our ascetic practice. Furthermore, we must be simple and not count ourselves as clever in this battle. The wiles of the evil one can turn even our conversations about piety into instruments that agitate and stir up the heart. Let us examine our hearts well as we approach the Great Fast and ask the Lord to be our strength.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:11:46 Niño: Have a nice day everybody 💞 it's 830 am Feb 25 Tuesday here Philippine time
00:15:10 Bob Cihak: P. 210, # G
00:15:46 Kathleen: What is the name of teh beginner’s book?
00:16:07 Kathleen: Thank you
00:16:28 Myles Davidson: https://www.amazon.com/Beginners-Introduction-Philokalia-2016/dp/1880971798
00:16:39 Kathleen: Thank you Myles
00:17:05 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "Thank you Myles" with 🙏
00:20:50 Josh: Can anyone tell me what page we are on tonight? Thanks.
00:21:03 Bob Cihak: P. 210, # G
00:21:10 Josh: Thank you
00:28:40 Maureen Cunningham: Maybe it was to protect women. It seems that women were used like property and could be cast away and killed.
00:39:46 Myles Davidson: This advice at the end of this saying reminds me of this quote you posted today Fr.
“Unceasing calling upon the name of God cures one not only of passions, but also of actions; and as a medicine affects a sick man without his comprehension, similarly the invocation of the name of God destroys passions in a manner beyond our comprehension."
00:40:25 Adam Paige: We have to choose: the news or the nous ! ;)
00:40:30 Maureen Cunningham: Beautiful movie free
00:40:48 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "We have to choose: t..." with 😊
00:40:49 Bob Cihak: When I decided, a long time ago, to let passionate thoughts just go by me, and ignore them, it lightened me a lot. I call this my toreodor defense.
00:40:49 Forrest Cavalier: Reacted to "We have to choose: t..." with 👍
00:40:55 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "Beautiful movie free" with 👍
00:43:27 Niño: Is there a prayer before and after doing a prostration? I used to do prostrations 33 times while meditating on the passion of Christ ...
00:46:08 Niño: Reacted to We have to choose: t... with "❤️"
00:47:08 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Beautiful movie free" with 🎞️
00:47:24 Niño: The power of the name of Christ is calming the storms within and without ...
00:48:13 Maureen Cunningham: What is the nous
00:48:32 Nypaver Clan: Replying to "What is the nous"
The eye of the soul
00:48:39 sr charista: As well, regarding main stream news it is said that 6 people own all the stations, it is the deceptive mockingbird media with an nefarious agenda it seems.
00:50:03 Niño: Yperagia Theotoke Soson Imas
00:50:41 Suzanne Romano: Reacted to We have to choose: t... with "😊"
00:54:05 Adam Paige: Replying to "Yperagia Theotoke So..."
Yperagia Theotoke Soson Imas ΥΠΕΡΑΓΙΑ ΘΕΟΤΟΚΕ ΣΩΣΟΝ ΗΜΑΣ// Most Holy Mother of God save us
01:01:17 Niño: Thus having an icon that would remind us of our goal and skull to remind us of death would help our imagination to focus on the things that are eternally true
01:02:05 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Thus having an icon ..." with 💀
01:07:20 Kathleen: You mentioned earlier about conversations that go in an unholy direction…it’s awkward at best finding ways to change the subject or exit or be silent without any body language or gestures that may indicate approval of the conversation. i find myself in these situations so looking for ways to handle
01:07:38 Niño: Reacted to You mentioned earlie... with "❤️"
01:08:06 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "pic-a711b3ac-351b-4294-8af5-576d965386f4.jpg" with 👍
01:09:31 Josh: Reacted to "You mentioned earlie..." with ❤️
01:09:40 Josh: Reacted to "pic-a711b3ac-351b-4294-8af5-576d965386f4.jpg" with 👍
01:12:02 Adam Paige: Replying to "You mentioned earlie..."
"7. Do not regard the feelings of a person who speaks to you about his neighbour disparagingly, but rather say to him: ‘Stop, brother! I fall into graver sins every day, so how can I criticize him?’ In this way you will achieve two things: you will heal yourself and your neighbour with one plaster. This is one of the shortest ways to the forgiveness of sins; I mean, not to judge. ‘Judge not, that you be not judged.’" - THE LADDER OF DIVINE ASCENT, St. John Climacus, Step 10 - On slander or calumny
01:13:35 Kathleen: Haha
01:14:27 Maureen Cunningham: Praying for you when do we start fast
01:15:30 Niño: Grateful always to be part of this group 🙏 thank you Padre For making this platform public(what I mean free)
01:15:40 ANDREW ADAMS: Thanks be to God! Thank you, Father!
01:15:41 Bob Cihak: Thank you, father.
01:15:42 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
01:15:50 Adam Paige: Replying to "Praying for you when..."
Praying for you when do we start fast depends on your rite !
01:16:06 Kathleen: I have no books yet. Is this info on your website?
01:16:15 Niño: Pls pray for me ..I'm planning to go back to the sacrament of penance after a long time of being away 🥹
01:16:22 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Pls pray for me ..I'..." with 😇
01:16:26 Josh: Reacted to "Pls pray for me ..I'..." with ❤️
01:16:26 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "Pls pray for me ..I'..." with 🙏🏼
01:16:29 Suzanne Romano: Reacted to Pls pray for me ..I'... with "🙏🏼"
01:16:39 Kathleen: Hahaha
01:16:44 Niño: Reacted to Hahaha with "😂"
01:17:05 Francisco Ingham: Thank you father! Let’s all offer our prayers and fasts for the Pope this week 🙏
01:17:14 sr charista: what is the name again
01:17:45 Adam Paige: I have no books yet. Is this info on your website? https://www.ctosonline.org/patristic/EvCT.html
01:18:10 Anthony: Reacted to When I decided, a lo... with "👍"
01:18:26 Adam Paige: I have no books yet. Is this info on your website? https://www.bostonmonks.com/product_info.php/products_id/635/?srsltid=AfmBOooAjdCUbwFztCJTIdrREtqfZwwp9RRgofV0q8U344Uov_z8_8q5
01:18:28 sr charista: Replying to "I have no books yet...."
thank you much :)
01:18:46 sr charista: BEAUTIFUL
01:18:46 Nypaver Clan: zacharias zacharou
We come to the end of this journey with St John Climacus knowing that it is also only the beginning. What joy has come through sitting at the feet of St. John for these few years and to be led along the path that brings us to Christ and the freedom to give ourselves in love and receive love.
In these final paragraphs about the qualities and the responsibilities of a spiritual elder, what shines forth most brightly is the absolute and complete love that the elder must have for those in his care. The love of Christ that burns within his heart must embrace and give warmth to all those he guides and be a true source of light for them. There are times where he may have to be strict and forceful yet the love dwells within his heart, like divine love, is curative not punitive. Divine love offers itself completely, lavishly, allowing itself to be broken and poured out for others. Thus, the elder must have ever before him those in his charge; so much so that purity of heart allows him to see their needs and suffering and compels him to come to their aid.
There will be many times when he must carry those in his charge to the Lord through his own example, his hidden sufferings and constant prayer. Like a parent, there will be moments when he must take them by the hand and guide them one step at a time along the narrow path that leads to the kingdom. Despite the fact that the kingdom of heaven dwells within us, the journey is often toilsome. Left to ourselves, we may never find the narrow gate or enter.
The elder must be long suffering; that when the lack of dispassion in others pierces his heart like a sword his response is like the Divine Judge - restraining himself and looking at others only with compassion. He must be willing to receive and take up upon his shoulders of the burden of his office as Christ took upon himself the burden of the cross and he must not despise the wounds that may come through rejection and betrayal.
The elder’s love must run so deep that intuitively he knows the sufferings of those in his care even before they speak of them to him. Without hesitation and quickly, he seeks to apply the healing balm.
And perhaps most powerful and beautiful of all - - in the end, the elder must acknowledge that he must decrease in order that Christ might increase within his children’s hearts. There will come a time when they no longer need human instruction because they have given their hearts to the Lord and are guided by His Spirit. Blessed are those who bring others to Christ and whose guidance passes on from generation to generation.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:12:41 Bob Cihak: P. 260, # 89
00:17:46 Anna Lalonde: It was a complete blessing the four months I was in religious life! Transformed my prayer life.
00:19:12 Joanne Martínez : Joanne Martínez here, just signed on
00:19:55 Bob Cihak: P. 260, # 89
00:20:13 Joanne Martínez : Reacted to "P. 260, # 89" with 👌
00:31:14 Kate : In order to be broken and poured out in love for others, does it necessitate allowing ourselves to be broken first by God, so to speak, and to have received the Love of God poured into us?
00:31:58 Rebecca Thérèse: Nathan
00:32:59 Jeffrey Ott: The daily meditation of Gaston Courtois was on that very thing…profiting first from God’s love so that we may reveal that love to the multitude of other souls
00:33:58 Tracey Fredman: Sometimes willingly pouring ourselves out for others is the way we are broken by God, particularly when we don't feel like doing whatever it is for others whether in ministry or simply serving another.
00:44:53 Joanne Martínez : In reading about the lengths to which the people of Mesoamerica went to receive baptism after the apparition of Guadalupe, I have a new understanding of the gift that sacrament truly is
00:57:21 Maureen Cunningham: There is a short you tube called The 21 remembering Martyrs who died in February 2015. The faith of these men was moving
01:01:58 Anna Lalonde: Fostered about 130 teens. 😂
01:22:16 Sr. Mary Clare: That is certainly a love that is not possessive
01:22:58 Joanne Martínez : Thank you! These last two years journeying with you all has been extraordinary.
01:23:02 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You Father
01:23:55 Zachary Morgan: This was wonderful - thank you Abouna!
01:24:37 Sr. Mary Clare: Beautiful
01:24:40 Janine: Thank you Father Charbel…looking forward to St Isaac
01:24:43 Jeffrey Ott: It’s been a joy. Thank you Father.
01:24:52 Lee Graham: Thank you, this has been wonderful
01:25:42 ANDREW ADAMS: Thanks be to God! Thank you, Father!
01:25:45 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
01:25:45 David: Thank you Father God Bless you and your Mom!
01:25:58 Art: Thank you for this wonderful journey with John Climacus!
01:26:08 Cindy Moran: Than you Father
Tonight we follow the thought of Saint Isaiah, the Solitary and St. John Cassian on the struggle with the passion of lust and fornication. One things stands out clearly: we must be fully engaged in the formation of the mind and the heart in virtue - for the devil is fully engaged in seeking to provoke us to sin. Therefore, we must guard all of the senses with great attentiveness. With this particular passion, we must engage in the battle both physically and spiritually. Thus, we must be attentive to both prayer and fasting; that is, humbling the mind and the body in such a way that we turn to God for our nourishment and strength. In shaping the habit of virtue, we must study the scriptures, engage in fervent prayer, and labor with our hands; in other words, we must keep our focus simple in order that we might be aware of what is going on within the heart.
Cassian makes it clear that the heart is the place where the disease is hidden – the depths of the soul. Yet, it is also here that the remedy is found. We must open our heart fully to God by guarding the senses and directing all of our energies towards the formation of virtue and the love of the things of the kingdom.
Humility is the foundation of all of these pursuits. In it, we recognize our poverty and so cling to God. As we cling to him, we experienced that he alone can bring not only healing where there has only been sin but also fill the heart with the love that he alone can satisfy.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:02:12 Anna Lalonde: Hello! We missed last week due to sickness. Glad to hear Father Charbel you've gained 11 new brothers in the monastery!
00:20:51 Joseph Muir: What page are we on?
00:21:07 Bob Cihak: P. 207 E
00:22:00 Joseph Muir: Reacted to "P. 207 E" with 👍
00:27:58 Joseph Muir: After a period of my life of living in rampant sin, upon my reversion, returning to the sacramental life of prayer and repentance, I really struggled with talking about my past without ultimately devolving into my bragging about my past. This was something that I took to confession probably every week for a period, until the priest, whom I personally knew, eventually asked me, “Are these people asking to hear about your past? Or are you shoehorning it into conversation?” It was obviously the latter, stemming from a misplaced sense of zeal for my return to God, though the priest exhorted me to practice biting my tongue instead, and that it would afford me the silence so as to healthily discern when and whom to share certain bits regarding my past, if at all
00:30:59 Joseph Muir: 😂
00:31:56 Anthony: I recommend "Hope," Pope Francis ' memoiore released this year.
00:32:16 Anthony: He deals with his own shame
00:35:25 Anthony: Ossuary
00:36:08 Myles Davidson: There’s a great scene in a Mt. Athos doco of a monk moving a wheelbarrow full of skulls to a new home they were building for them
00:37:48 Joseph Muir: “Keep your eyes on your own plate”, as an old monastic maxim goes
00:49:14 Adam Paige: https://philokalia.podbean.com/e/to-love-fasting/
00:49:33 Anthony: There's a related issue: I was working with a church youth group, and so, wanting to relate to their culture as other adults could, I watched a lot of movies like the Marvel Universe. That was a bad idea. That just uploads other people's malformed imagination into mine.
00:50:57 Myles Davidson: Replying to "There's a related is..."
Hollywood in general is very toxic
01:05:54 Niño: It's really hard to practice these disciplines especially if someone experimented with living a life of sin out of curiosity... I'd been away from the sacraments for 2 months to satisfy my lower appetite...but now I regret everything ...it's a foolish thing to give a chance to the devil in the name of "choosing" between evil and good ... Now, I'm beginning from zero again 😔 it's good thing to find this meeting.thanks Fr.
01:06:22 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "It's really hard to ..." with 🙏
01:08:09 Myles Davidson: Oscar Wilde said the best way to get rid of temptation was to give in to it
01:08:16 Forrest Cavalier: Welcome back to the fold, N!
01:08:26 Joseph Muir: “[E]ach person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin; and sin when it is full-grown brings forth death.”—James 1:14-15
01:09:05 Adam Paige: Oscar Wilde also said the only feast of the church he kept was Septuagesima haha
01:09:18 Anthony: Mayne Wilde meant that temptation is a part of life, don't just roll over to temptation and play dead
01:09:41 Julie: Like Eve who had a dialogue with the devil
01:10:13 Cameron Jackson: Oscar Wilde is a contrary indicator.
01:15:23 Cameron Jackson: Thank you Fr Charbel!
01:15:31 Niño: Replying to "Welcome back to the ..."
I don't know...but, deep within me and every event that took place these past few days is like a deep calling from God to return ..I don't know and I'm not sure
It seems to be overreacting for me ..but, the events really are clear to me that God is calling me back
I know how to return..but I don't know if I am really sincere in my conversion
How will I know that I am really sincere ...one of my concerns is that I only have the feeling to return because of guilt but really deep inside me I am not repentant ...I cannot abuse the Mercy of God
I am sure of the Mercy of God but not sure about myself ..pls pray for me
01:15:42 sr charista: Blessings to you Fr.! Thank you :).
01:15:55 Jacqulyn: Pray for me! Tomorrow is my birthday! 🎉
01:16:07 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father!
01:16:11 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
01:16:15 Aric B: Thank you Father!
01:16:16 Forrest Cavalier: Replying to "Welcome back to the ..."
Go to confession!
01:16:20 Laura: Replying to "Welcome back to the ..."
👍🏼
01:16:22 Bob Cihak: God be with you.
01:16:27 Laura: Reacted to "I don't know...but, ..." with 👍🏼
St. John does not hesitate to speak to us about the beauty and the extraordinary responsibility of the spiritual elder. To find oneself with the care of souls one must take up the work without question. One cannot approach the care of the flock as a hireling. As we have received so we must give. If God has given us the particular gifts to guide others in the spiritual life, then gratitude must compel us to offer the same consolation to others.
One cannot stress enough how great the responsibility is that is placed on the shoulders of the elder. He must be especially sensitive to the most vulnerable and the weakest within the community and understand how to offer guidance to multiple individuals at the same time. He must be able to strengthen the resolve of all the men in his community through timely rebukes and humbling the stronger members of the community even though their actions do not warrant such correction. An elder cannot set aside his identity, even while always seeking to be tender and gentle with those in his care. They must respect him and his life must be respectable in regard to his virtue if they are going to follow his counsel and if they are going to remain obedient. Only in this way will his monks have absolute confidence in his guidance.
He must hold their trust by also holding everything they say as private and not to be shared among others. Such trust is hard won and can be lost in an instant if the elder acts indiscriminately. While he is forbearing, he must deal directly with the disobedient. His failure to do so may, in the end, weaken their commitment or cause them to despise him when they are unable to endure.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:09:32 Adam Paige: https://youtu.be/0uBTKGd3L_g?si=1t1YtY9_ACx02Pd7
00:10:54 Suzanne Romano: Thank you, Adam! That's it!
00:11:44 Zachary Morgan: I love your substack!!
00:12:04 Jacqulyn: Reacted to "I love your substack..." with 👍
00:12:20 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Thank you, Adam! Tha…" with 📽
00:12:33 Una: Reacted to "I love your substa..." with 👍
00:13:44 Zachary Morgan: I find that substack is more for other writers/contributors outside the now-prevalent "shorts" we see on other platforms
00:33:49 Anthony: I think this is helpful. When I'd read something like Desert Fathers and come across confessing thoughts, I thought it was literal.
00:53:50 Zachary Morgan: Speaking of openly wearing clerical garb, one of the biggest arguments that I have experienced among clergy is whether deacons should wear their clerics openly because not being a priest, they shoudn't be seen in "spiritual way" in public or be confused as potentially being a priest by others - almost as if the Deacon cannot be a source of spiritual good outside the service of the altar. Can I ask what your thoughts are on this? I think it is much more of a Western struggle.
00:58:25 Margaret: Thank you for your comments on Priests and Sisters wearing their clerical garb in public. I bristle when I see sisters that aren't in "clerical garb". It makes me think they are ashamed to be Brides of Christ
00:59:47 Suzanne Romano: It's not rigidity. It's zeal and lov ae.
01:02:05 Sr. Mary Clare: When I walked into a store with another sister, two Protestants said, "What a breath of fresh air to see Catholic Sisters wearing their long garb. We have seen them running down the street in shorts. We just smiled.
01:02:18 Suzanne Romano: All your comments on wearing the habit are spot on!
01:03:23 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "All your comments on..." with 🥰
01:03:49 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "When I walked into a..." with 👍🏼
01:04:09 Suzanne Romano: Reacted to When I walked into a... with "👍🏼"
01:07:38 Sr. Mary Clare: Why "Fear in our presence?"
01:09:53 Sr. Mary Clare: Thank you for explaining. I was a little confused
01:12:40 Sr. Mary Clare: Absolutely correct!
01:14:00 Suzanne Romano: Love cannot be divided from authority. Love requires authority.
01:20:16 Una: Reacted to "When I walked into..." with 👍🏼
01:20:20 Maureen Cunningham: Thank you Father
01:21:03 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father!
01:21:05 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
01:21:15 Margaret: Thank you!
01:21:46 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you! Great to be with you all!
The spiritual life is not lived out in the abstract. Among the fathers, we find a distinct emphasis on praxis; that is, the practice of the faith. We come to know God and to love virtue not through reading but rather through experience.
As a defense, often used to hold onto attachments, we make our faith into something that is purely intellectual or notional. Yet in this hypothesis, hearing tonight in particular from Saint Ephraim, the Syrian, we are presented with the experience of those tempted by the demons to minimize the effects of the embrace of sin and the loss of grace. Rather than holding onto our virtue as precious and maintaining a clear vision of our identity as temples of the Holy Spirit, we cast it all aside thoughtlessly for a moment of pleasure.
The struggle with sensuality in particular is challenging because of how it is experienced. We covet what we see and when something is seen it is held within the imagination and the memory. It remains with us even if for a moment we are drawn away from it. When we indiscriminately expose ourselves to what stimulates the passions, we make ourselves more vulnerable. Once the demons have been successful in leading us to embrace such thoughts and actions, then the images seep into the unconscious and emerge later in our dreams.
The loss that comes to us is immeasurable, and it is only by the grace of God that healing can come. Saint Ephraim counsels us to keep our eyes downward in their focus and not allow our vision to rove around indiscriminately. On the other hand, we must keep the eyes of our soul constantly turned upward toward God. Only when He fills us with his grace when we turned to him in a spirit of repentance can the imagination, memory and unconscious be healed. The more we fill our hearts with the love of virtue and the things of the kingdom the more we are transformed and begin to experience, once again, the freedom of those who have been made sons and daughters of God.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:12:48 Suzanne Romano: It's certainly been a bad flu season for the chickens... 🥴
00:15:35 paul g.: Whoa. Great !
00:31:28 Forrest Cavalier: Priests can be more firm at setting limits. My wife was confirmed in the 1980's only because Fr. Vanyo at the cathedral refused to baptize her youngest sibling unless all were in catechism. I pray for him often.
00:32:11 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "Priests can be more ..." with 👍🏼
00:41:59 Mary and Al: Yes scary!
00:55:13 Forrest Cavalier: That reference to wax in this paragraph sounds like a reference to Ps 68:3 "As wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God"
01:03:23 Sheila: I find this holds the same when people tell you gossip about others. It changes how you see the person whether you wanted tonor not.
01:03:29 Sheila: Or not
01:05:13 Sheila: These images, can they be purged? Or are they truly as you say permamently there to be used against yourr charity and thoughts?
01:17:06 Lee Graham: The many “good” things we could do are enemy of the “best”.
01:22:45 paul g.: Yes
01:23:00 Forrest Cavalier: everge Teen o's
01:23:08 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "everge Teen o's" with 😂
01:23:10 paul g.: Reacted to "everge Teen o's" with ❤️
01:23:56 Bob Cihak, AZ: Preach it, Father!! Please! and Thank you!!!
01:23:59 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
01:24:14 Sheila: Thanks Father!
01:24:16 Forrest Cavalier: No fasting this week, though!
01:24:23 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father.
I was struck this evening not only with the wisdom of St. John’s counsel in regard to the care of souls, but also the beauty of the heart of the Shepherd that emerges as we read through the text. Only a heart that has been conformed to Christ and a life that in every way has become prophetic in the sense of bearing witness to the love, humility, and obedience of the kingdom can give itself over to the care of other souls. The role of an elder is not simply to instruct, reprove and guide but above all to love. His affection for those in his care as well as for all people must lead him to console others as he himself has been consoled. He approaches this reality not with a spirit of condescension but rather as one who has been humbled by life and his own poverty and lifted up by the mercy of Christ. It is a spirit of gratitude that leads him to enter into the struggle of others with a spirit of generosity. He feels no revulsion at the sight of sin or weakness. Rather, it draws his attention and draws forth from his heart, compassion and mercy.
One of the most striking things we considered this evening was the nature of obedience. St. John tells us that it is the very definition of obedience to be fearless and to have no anxiety about anything at all. The truly obedient heart of an elder can calmly guide, direct, and comfort others without saying a single word.
It is this reality that we are to embody in our lives; whether priest, religious, married or single. The best and the beautiful are meant for all and that which comes to us from the hand of our Lord must be freely extended to others. Thus, to have the care of souls is part of the very nature of Christian life.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:08:38 Bob Cihak: P. 257, # 64
00:15:03 Wayne: The idea of repentance is the major focus of the Eastern practise.
00:21:51 Myles Davidson: "Flee from discussions of dogma as from an unruly lion" St. Isaac the Syrian
00:23:43 Bob Cihak: Reacted to ""Flee from discussio..." with 👍
00:31:34 Daniel Allen: That’s the best definition I’ve ever heard of obedience. Applicable even to mundane things, unafraid of the death of the ego in order to obey on a whim.
00:32:00 David: Obedience is often faith and humbling of the intellect. What one believes can be based on feelings what one knows is very little
00:33:06 Anthony: An acquaintance told me theology is or should be like chemistry: predictable, according to something like law. I think it's more like cooking: the artful and beautiful and surprising use of "chemistry" without necessarily "knowing" the "rules" in depth.
00:36:58 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: I often find myself rejoicing as I do physical labor that because of my religious vows/dedicated life, even cleaning offers worship to God!
00:37:39 Suzanne Romano: Reacted to I often find myself ... with "❤️"
00:40:19 David: Reacted to "I often find myself ..." with 👍
00:41:48 Rebecca Thérèse: Reacted to "I often find myself ..." with 👍
00:42:10 Lee Graham: Reacted to "I often find myself …" with ❤️
00:44:44 Thomas Dilts: For me, Brother Lawrence best demonstrated day to day labors as service to God.
00:50:21 St. Stanislaus Kostka Religious Education: St. Andre Bessette...sickly and poor, orphaned and seemingly of a lower intellect
00:53:21 Adam Paige: All the T’s are pronounced in Bessette
00:53:30 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "All the T’s are pron..." with 👍🏼
00:53:37 Anthony: It maybe would be good to have a "Sons / Daughters of the Covenant" arrangement of single people to live within and among parishes.
00:54:44 Adam Paige: Pronounced like “buh-set”. We call him Saint Brother André locally (I live a 40 minutes walk from his tomb)
00:59:35 Anthony: In the Gospel, Jesus told a demonic Not to be a "traditional disciple" but sent him on his own mission among his peopl.
01:00:43 David: A convent I used to visit in Tlaxcala Mexico used to put a mirror in every room and waited till anyone that came asked for it to be removed as a sign they were ready to actually leave vanity and focus on Christ. I was really stuck by something that simple being used with novices.
01:03:39 Bob Cihak: Be careful about mud huts. My father was born in one. My uncle Frank lived in a mud hut when he got his own lad to farm. When he married, he built and outhouse so that his new wife wouldn't have to go to nature to do those natural things.
01:09:52 paul g.: My birthday is Feb 4th too😊.
01:10:13 Suzanne Romano: I was baptized on Feb 4!
01:10:20 Francisco Ingham: We love you Father
01:10:25 Anthony: ❤️
01:10:28 Francisco Ingham: You are the absolute best
01:11:11 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
01:11:17 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you! Great to be with you all
01:11:21 David: Bless you father and your Mom!
01:11:21 Mary Clare Wax: thank you
01:11:28 David: Thank you
01:11:29 Art iPhone: Welcome all
The struggle with impurity and fornication in our day is so fierce - as well as accepted and embraced by most of the secular culture - that those seeking purity of heart not only have to engage in the ascetic life deeply but also have to embrace a living martyrdom.
The fathers understood how powerful our natural desires can be; in particular our sensuality. They also understood the devil‘s machinations and the relentless nature of temptations that also come to us from our own imagination and memory. What is captured for us in the writings of this hypothesis is the necessity of engaging in the spiritual battle. We must of course cling to the grace of God and engage in constant prayer. Yet knowing the devil‘s actions, we must embrace many different remedies; such as doing violence to the self and depriving ourselves of the things that the culture freely embraces.
What we heard tonight from multiple writers is the need to remember our own mortality. What we behold as beautiful and covet with the eyes quickly turns to dust. With salvation in the balance, the devil can often tempt us to give ourselves over to satisfying a passion “just once” - as if that would resolve our need. We have to understand that desire does not work in that fashion. The more that it is fed the more its longings increase.
If we could only understand this in light of our desire for God! The more that we desire him in love, the more that we pursue him through prayer, the greater our longing becomes. Soon our attachment to lesser things begins to diminish and we are freer to pursue the Beloved.
Finally, we are encouraged to look to the heroes of our faith; in particular those who wage war against this particular passion or who made the ultimate sacrifice to protect their purity. In them, we see those whose hearts belong to the Lord and to Him alone. May God give us the grace to imitate them.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:03:25 Tracey Fredman: I apologize if I'm in and out this evening. I'm on call for work and may need to in/out.
00:13:39 Anthony: Well, some of the women were looking for a female take on 6th commandment concerns...here is a lead...
00:13:56 Bob Cihak: P. 202, top of page
00:24:32 Lee Graham: Brother Sun and Sister Moon
00:24:46 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "Brother Sun and Sist..." with 👍🏼
00:26:50 Anthony: This reminds me of an apocryphal story that after Adam and Eve sinned, they withdrew from each other for the sake of doing penance. They had the right to each other, but living a time of repentance is withdrawing from comfort - which is what vowed religious have chosen.
00:31:26 Forrest Cavalier: Father, I am wondering how to see this advice to control the imagination to see horrible things as being honest and pure of heart. I understand how it can be effective, but it seems to be contrary to reality and second, to rely on willpower, which is less admirable than a more excellent submission to grace, (as previous warnings we have read recently here.)
00:41:07 Una: The Buddhists have a meditation on rotting corpses too.
00:48:51 Kathleen: Interestingly Sirach 11:27-28 speaks about how death brings full understanding of one’s life
00:53:57 Anthony: Thomas Sowell wrote about the violent, irreverent character of the Scots and English Colonists in the South during the time of the American colonies. They have left their mark on American character and culture. There's an audiobook version of his book on YouTube where I heard it.
00:54:19 paul g.: Reacted to "Thomas Sowell wrote …" with ✔️
00:56:53 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "Thomas Sowell wrote ..." with 🥰
00:57:35 Nypaver Clan: Replying to "Thomas Sowell wrote ..."
Thomas Sowell is so gifted!
00:58:03 Bob Cihak: Replying to "Thomas Sowell wrote ..."
Amen.
00:58:03 Anthony: Replying to "Thomas Sowell wrote ..."
I should clarify Sowell was talking about places like the Ozarks, that prioritized excessive pride and vendettas.
00:58:24 Jacqulyn: Reacted to "Thomas Sowell is so ..." with 👍
00:59:17 Nypaver Clan: Replying to "Thomas Sowell wrote ..."
👍🏼
01:09:58 iPhone (61): Thank You Father Blessings
01:10:27 Sr. Charista Maria: Thank you dear Fr. Abernethy!
01:10:39 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father!
01:10:41 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
01:10:46 Kathleen: Thank you
01:11:02 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father
01:13:03 Kathleen: Hahaha
01:14:04 iPhone (61): Beautiful Icon
01:15:22 iPhone (61): Who is Saint Catherine
01:16:38 Suzanne Romano: Replying to "Who is Saint Catheri..."
https://catholicharboroffaithandmorals.com/St.%20Catherine%20of%20Alexandria.html
01:16:47 Anthony: Replying to "Who is Saint Catheri..."
An Egyptian philosopher whi also found Christ, decided to be a consecrated virgin. Virginity angered pagans and they tortured her on a wheel, to death.
01:16:51 Forrest Cavalier: Great story! Thank you!
01:17:07 Suzanne Romano: Replying to "Who is Saint Catheri..."
She's beyond the pale awesome!
The counsel and the guidance that St. John offers in this letter is unparalleled. His understanding of the role of the spiritual elder and the nature and manner of engaging those in his responsibility is deep and astute, both psychologically and spiritually. Yet what stands out the most in this letter is the dynamic that must exist between the spiritual elder and those in his care. The Abbot or the elder could never be described as an administrator or a master platoon leader in the military. Simply put, he is to be an embodiment of Christ to those in his care, being willing to lay down his life on their behalf. It is crucified love that saves and redeems us, and it is the same love that must guide the words and actions of one who has been given the responsibility for the care of others. What drives the heart of such an elder is the understanding of the care that he himself has been given, the consolation that God has offered to him. These realities move him to share what he himself has received an abundance. In fact to fail to do so is a reflection of a lack of charity as well as gratitude. By nature, a spiritual elder longs to help those in his care to avoid the pitfalls that the Evil One places before them in the spiritual life. He must be sensitive to the most subtle movements among the members of his community and the spirit that is manifesting itself among them. Likewise, driven by love he must foster a sense of generosity between the members of the community and those in his care. He cannot allow himself the luxury of treating everyone the same - any more than a parent addresses the needs of their children in a mechanical fashion. St. John tells us “the overseers must heed to the sowing of the seed: to the season, person, quality, and quantity.” The elder must nurture and nourish as need demands. And finally, the one who does this in the fullest measure acts in a hidden fashion so that all glory and gratitude is directed toward God. May God give us such faithful shepherds!
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Text of chat during the group:
00:10:09 Suzanne Romano: I just this minute received word that Bishop Richard Williamson passed away this evening. Please pray for his immortal soul.
00:10:54 Anna Lalonde: Are you moving there?
00:11:06 Anna Lalonde: In California
00:11:23 Anna Lalonde: Awesome
00:16:20 David: One thing I like about my Dad who keeps a saying from my Grandfather is when someone says thank you. He always says No thank God I am able. A small detail but I have come to appreciate it more with age and now do the same
00:23:04 Zachary Morgan: alhamdulilah!
00:39:34 Anthony: This relationship of shepherd to sheep reminds me of the "royal priesthood" described by St Ephrem in The Cave of Treasures. Adam and his successor priest-kings on the mount of paradise took the care of all the faithful in their hands....until the numbers of faithful dwelling on the mountain dwindled, going into the plain and mingling with Cain's people.....and then God sent the Flood.
00:40:09 David: When I taught at a catholic school in Spain one of my mentors used to say there two types of teachers: One that seeks control and power and the other is one who learns more than the students about himself and faith.
00:51:50 Joseph Muir: For those who don’t have the book, the two quotes at the end of the last paragraph come from the prophets Jeremiah and Obadiah, respectively
00:54:57 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "For those who don’t ..." with 👍🏼
01:10:47 Anthony: That was the training at my Evangelical university. It's hard to break.
01:10:52 David: It's interesting you look at the early church and people were attracted by love. No where does it say a great Proof or having the best arguement, theology or put people in their place
01:12:11 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You Father Blessing
01:12:46 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father!
01:12:54 Zachary Morgan: Thank you Abouna!
01:13:02 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you! Great to be with you all.
01:13:19 Francisco Ingham: Thank you father!! I hope I can go visit the monastery some day 🙏
01:13:22 David: Thank you father and blessings to you and your Mom
01:13:27 Art: Thank you Father!
We have continued our discussion of the farhers’ writing on fornication and the effects that it has upon the soul. Purity of heart is the foundation of the spiritual life and the immediate goal. We are called to remove every impediment that prevents us from not only receiving the grace of God but from offering him our hearts and our love fully.
In fact, our hearts can be divided, and this is exactly what the demons seek to accomplish. They know they have a strong bodily appetite and desire that they can stir up through our thoughts and images, words and the actions, and the presence of others. Even memories of conversations and the images of people from the past can be used against us in more vulnerable moments to lead us astray.
Holiness and purity is not something that one can judge from external realities. Even the most holy individual who seems to be most endowed with gifts from God can have a heart that is radically divided and even wholly given over to the spirit of fornication. To lack watchfulness in this regard opens one up to the experience of obsession. It does not take more than one instance of infidelity to open the door to taking another step in that direction where obsession can become oppression. Fornication can take hold of the mind and the heart with a fierce grip. Finally oppression can give way to possession where the demon of fornication takes hold of one’s life and darkens their heart completely.
Disconnected from the wisdom of the father’s we find the counsel of our day much akin to self-help. Such counsel sad leads a person more deeply into the obsession that wounds them. Under the false guise of prudence and wisdom there’s often deep foolishness that leads an individual to put himself and God to the test. The discipline and watchfulness the father‘s put forward would often be dismissed in our day as scrupulosity or unhealthy. Yet the Saints knew and understood what is precious and what must be protected. Unless one loves virtue and has tasted the sweetness that it brings to one’s life one will easily walk away from it.
I might hazard to say that very few of our generation know the kind of purity of heart of which the fathers speak and to which we are called. Our culture has become so permeated with disordered sensuality that our love for the virtue of purity has been compromised as well as our capacity to pursue it. Only radical humility and clinging to the grace of God can aid us.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:04:28 Sr. Charista Maria: Fr. what community?
00:05:24 ANDREW ADAMS: Replying to "Fr. what community?"
https://www.monksofmttabor.com
00:41:37 Rachel: I think this is very important. fwiw not scrupulous at all
00:42:23 Myles Davidson: Replying to "I think this is very..."
I agree
00:44:16 Mary Clare Wax: Very well said! Thank you!
00:44:33 Forrest Cavalier: Attributed to St Alphonsus: “To avoid the sight of dangerous objects, the saints were accustomed to keep their eyes almost continually fixed on the earth, and to abstain even from looking at innocent objects,” says St. Alphonsus de Liguori.
00:45:35 Forrest Cavalier: There are many times I need to do this, in Sheetz. Or Walmart. Or wherever
00:53:34 Una: What exactly does she mean by prudent? Is there another word?
00:55:21 Forrest Cavalier: Greek is σωφροσύνην
00:55:37 Forrest Cavalier: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophrosyne
00:58:16 Una: What would the nuns have been leaving the convent for? Shopping? Visiting?
01:00:42 Una: One priest told me that in seminary he was advised to visit his family regularly to protect temptations against chastity
01:00:56 Una: To avoid too much lonliness
01:01:31 Sr. Charista Maria: Father I would like your thoughts if you are familiar with the story of Bishop Nonnis in the book: Harlots of the Desert, by Benedicta Ward? She shares of the beauty of the Harlot Pelagia, and Bishop Nonnis was so struck by her beauty that it led him to pray for her, and she converted. I happened to just read this on the Feast of St. Anthony.
01:03:07 Mary Clare Wax: Reacted to "Father I would like ..." with 👍
01:03:43 Una: I'm reading Harlots of the Desert too!
01:03:52 Una: One potato chip, yeah
01:04:25 Sr. Charista Maria: Reacted to "I'm reading Harlots ..." with 👏
01:05:01 Una: Today's gospel was about not dividing the Kingdom. A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand
01:06:19 Mary Clare Wax: The other clergy turned their eyes away from Pelagia, but Bishop Nonnis looked at her with love.
01:07:24 Anna Lalonde: Seeking prayers... Incense is gravely affecting my health after BioLab chemical fire exposure in September.
01:13:09 Sr. Charista Maria: Father I love your sharing on "oh I just want to watch a movie" or the like. It is so important to recognize the weaknesses of the flesh in order to be on guard against them when they surface.
01:14:46 Una: Or going to movies often
01:14:58 Sr. Charista Maria: Agreed regarding not escaping into family visits. It is such a grace to invite Jesus into the loneliness
01:15:43 Mary Clare Wax: Such jewels from the desert Fathers!
01:15:49 santiagobua: Thank you Father!!
01:15:51 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father!
01:15:52 Rachel: Thank you
01:15:52 Josh: Thanks father
01:16:16 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father
The deeper that we go into this letter, the more we begin to see the necessary qualities of an elder. In our society, we often value what seems to be productive. Yet what St. John emphasizes is the heart of the elder. One cannot offer care to another soul unless they have struggled long and hard with their own passions and are able to look at those who come to them through the lens of compassion, humility, and the love of Christ.
Repeatedly, we are shown the care that the elder must exhibit in his approach to those who come to him. He cannot be easily agitated when anger or hostility are directed toward him. Nor can he show disgust at the past or present behavior of another. He does not condescend, but rather makes himself the servant of one like himself – one who knows the deep wounds of sin; often wounds that are self inflicted.
Therefore, John tells us it is not right for a lion to pasture sheep, and it is not safe for a man who is still subject to the passions to rule over passionate men. One who does not seek to tend to the wounded, but rather to rule - one who does not seek to lead by example, but rather instruct with force - is going to be a gross distortion of the image of Christ.
The elder must have the greatest sensitivity to the needs and the struggles of those who come to him, realizing that there is great variety and difference between individuals. Thus, an elder must be the most obedient and humble of souls; that is, he must have a refined ability to hear the truth, to hear the word of God spoken in his heart, and he must possess discernment that is born of humility. An elder can only see in others what he has contemplated in himself.
His awareness of the wounds that others bear only help him to understand that they are his responsibility. He approaches others not in a detached fashion, but as one who shares deeply in their sorrow and desires their healing as he desires his own. In this, St. John tells us Christ is the standard. The elder must receive all that is thrust upon him with the same selfless love that we witness on the cross. It is here that we begin to understand that John is not simply speaking about monks. He speaks to all of us and the necessity of taking Christ at his word; to love others as he has loved us, to be willing to lay down our lives for others, including those who treat us like enemies.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:09:11 Anna Lalonde: Pray because I was just anointed. Been not well since late Sept.
00:10:02 Janine: Yes Anna…I will pray for you!
00:10:09 Bob Cihak, AZ: Replying to "Pray because I was j..."
Will do. God bless you.
00:10:50 Rebecca Thérèse: Reacted to "Pray because I was j..." with 🙏
00:11:18 Suzanne Romano: Happy Feast of St
Paul, Proto Hermit!!!
00:12:50 Anna Lalonde: What's your special day Father?
00:13:09 Tracey Fredman: Reacted to "Pray because I was j..." with 🙏
00:13:53 Anna Lalonde: Yes a BioLab Chemical Fire happened Sept 30. That caused me life threatening health issues in my lungs. So thanks for prayers.
00:14:12 Anna Lalonde: Congratulations!
00:15:16 Suzanne Romano: Maybe St. Paul is responsible for your love of the Desert Fathers! 😇
00:15:18 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 254, # 44
00:16:16 Eric Ewanco: what step are we on, and what's the lede to the paragraph?
00:16:38 Myles Davidson: Replying to "what step are we on,..."
P. 254, # 44
00:16:50 Eric Ewanco: Replying to "what step are we on,..."
I don't have that book.
00:18:05 Bob Cihak, AZ: Replying to "what step are we on,..."
Lede: Let the established order...
00:18:38 Bob Cihak, AZ: Replying to "what step are we on,..."
of To the Shepherd
00:32:28 Anthony: Gamal Nasser?
00:32:50 Art: Edi Amin?
00:32:50 Myles Davidson: Mubarak?
00:33:03 Adam Paige: Hosni Mubarak ?
00:34:08 Adam Paige: The Life of Repentance and Purity (Pope Shenouda) pdf http://stphilopateerdallas.org/The%20Life%20of%20Repentance%20and%20Purity%20-%20HH%20Pope%20Shenouda%20III.pdf
00:41:23 David: Without detachment of the world we cannot even glimpse heaven.
00:42:01 David: I can't remember the saint that said that but when I looked for a spiritual director someone told me look for detachments first.
00:58:40 David: I love the saying of Mother Teresa- We are all pencils in the hand of God.
01:05:08 David: I have on my bedroom door a saying Fr. George Maloney had which is really hard to practice every day- In loving one another God in us is made flesh. I try to keep this in mind but as the day goes on I sometimes get lost.
01:06:11 Daniel Allen: Terrifying thought… what if instead of the explanations we give or hear to make the gospel more approachable, what if Christ meant the things He said? That’s the most terrifying thought because who really has embodied that? And yet that’s what we’re called to.
01:09:20 Anna Lalonde: Reacted to Terrifying thought… ... with "❤️"
01:11:24 Eric Ewanco: yes
01:15:00 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you. Have a good retreat🙂🙏
01:15:46 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father! Have a good time with the monks!
01:15:48 MOME hermits: Excellent!!!!
01:15:52 Suzanne Romano: Thank you!
01:16:14 Anna Lalonde: Yes
01:16:16 David: Thank you very much Father. Isaac is worth the wait
01:16:19 Vanessa: i'm fine with that
01:16:21 Jeff O.: happy to finish this!
01:16:22 Lori Hatala: yes comtinue
01:16:23 MOME hermits: Continue
01:16:26 David: Not in our time but God's Time
01:16:27 Janine: Yes…continue with it..
01:16:28 Art: I’m fine with that.
01:16:29 ANDREW ADAMS: I’m good with whatever the group prefers.
01:16:33 Kate : Please continue!
01:16:40 Eric Ewanco: I'm fine finishing it FWIW
01:16:41 Bob Cihak, AZ: Preach it, Father.
01:16:42 Adam Paige: It’s worthwhile to take the time to complete Climacus
01:16:43 Jessica Imanaka: Makes sense to complete it.
01:16:43 Anthony: Isaac's waited 1500 years to talk to me, he can wait a bit more :)
01:16:46 Lee Graham: Yes, finish it up
01:16:48 Jeff O.: Thank you!
01:16:50 Leilani Nemeroff: Thank you!
01:16:50 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!
Once again, my first thought at the end of this group is “Revolution“. When read in the context of all that we have considered from The Evergetinos to date and from St. John Climacus, our entire way of viewing reality is being challenged, overthrown, or illuminated. One begins to see that our capacity as Christians to read and hear the Gospel, let alone the writings of the fathers, has been compromised. We have been formed in and by an atheistic secular culture. That culture has permeated the Church in modern times in ways that we cannot even comprehend.
God has revealed himself to us; not only the depth of his love and compassion, but also the reality of sin and the struggle that remains for us within this world. We cannot understand the danger of fornication and lust to our salvation unless we come to understand the importance of purity of heart. God has created us for Himself, in His image and likeness, and our desire must be directed toward Him if we are to experience the fulfillment of the deepest longings of the human heart - let alone the right ordering of our bodily desires. Thus, our lust or fornication is not simply a moral infraction or a negative view of human sexuality but evidence of an idolatry of the self and so adultery in regard to our relationship with God - infidelity in regard to the Heavenly Bridegroom who has given Himself to us completely.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:22:39 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 195, # A
00:31:49 Myles Davidson: There’s a book called Your Brain On Porn about the brain changes that happen
00:35:05 Myles Davidson: Yes, its a book… Your Brain on Porn: Internet Pornography and the Emerging Science of Addiction
https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B00N2AH8NW?ref_=mr_referred_us_au_nz
00:43:58 Myles Davidson: John Cassian does a good job of outlining the difference between abstinence and chastity (Conference 12)
00:49:41 Forrest Cavalier: If they are unrepentant in a state of mortal sin, the attempt to be married will fail.
00:55:26 Anna Lalonde: Yes! I don't wear makeup because I feel the same way.
00:57:28 Anthony: Someone on substance wrote an article that dressing to be titillating is a way to exert power over others and is socially worse than pornography which often is in red light areas.
00:57:48 Anthony: Substance. Sorry. :)
00:57:56 Anthony: Substack
00:57:58 Myles Davidson: Substack?
01:07:32 Anna Lalonde: When is a thought a sin? My child asks.
01:12:21 Anthony: There's got to be an "easier" way to approach this. God wouldn't make us to be so easily manipulated without help ready at hand; God wouldn't make us so that we understand the value of chastity only after experiencing sin in thought word and deed.
01:17:17 Anthony: I wasn't being facetious.
01:20:53 Cameron Jackson: Evil is real.
Warfare is not really a metaphor.
01:27:15 Myles Davidson: Replying to "202501131635300000.jpg"
That’s a beautiful book! Where did you get that?
01:27:39 Nikki: Wonderful teaching
01:30:59 Anna Lalonde: Replying to "[Full message cannot be displayed on this version]"
What's the book link? I got kicked out
01:32:37 Lilly: Sorry I didnt hear. No class Wed?
01:32:40 MOME hermits: Thank you dear Father :)!
01:32:44 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You it always a Blessing every time we gather
01:32:48 Cameron Jackson: Thank you Father!
01:33:25 Suzanne Romano: Pax!
01:33:27 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
01:33:33 Dave Warner | AL: Thank you Father!
01:33:47 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father
01:33:48 Simon Greener: Thank you for my first session from down under.
One of the reasons that I’ve decided to prolong our study by reading this letter of St. John Climacus is that it speaks to our hearts about not only our interior life, the struggle with the passions and the growth of the virtues, but it also exhorts us - warning us that the care of others in love, our concern for their spiritual well-being trumps all things. In other words, our spiritual life cannot lead us to become self focused. Rather, it is meant to create hearts that are selfless and attentive to others and their needs.
What St John says about the care of souls and the responsibilities of spiritual elders he says to all of us. The consolation that we have received from Christ and the wisdom that he has bestowed upon us in our spiritual life and through experience is not our own possession. We seek to console as we have been consoled. We seek to protect as we have been protected by the grace of God and the guidance that we have received at the hands of others. The Church is not a business nor is it to function like one. We come to Church and receive the Sacrament not to “take something” for ourselves. We are drawn into the very life of the Holy Trinity and our “Amen” when receiving this gift means that we are saying “so be it” - let this be the reality in my life! Like the good Shepherd, I will lay down my life for the good of others.
We can never set aside our identity to fit in with society, any more than a spiritual elder can set aside his responsibility and his role of guiding and forming others. Therefore, this letter we are reading is not simply a pious exhortation but rather a call to revolution; that is, a call to radical repentance. We must turn to God in every way in order that by His grace we might love others as He has loved us.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:04:54 susan: asking prayers for my son peter and 16 week pregnant wife in la brea la below fires.
00:11:19 Rebecca Thérèse: Reacted to "asking prayers for m..." with 🙏
00:20:42 David: Having lived in Latin America for 12 years. Another notable difference is the priest often goes and meets everyone in the parish. I do think a lot of vacation days and shorter work hours help community as well.
00:25:21 Myles Davidson: The Protestant work ‘ethic’ has a lot to answer for
00:25:40 Wayne: Reacted to "The Protestant work ..." with 👍
00:25:50 David: Work to live not live to work is the saying in Spanish
00:25:56 Anthony: For the change in culture, see A History of the Protestant Reformation in England and Ireland by Cobbett.
00:26:16 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "Work to live not liv..." with 👍
00:31:30 Bob Cihak, AZ: Re: priests and visiting their flock: Our Ruthenian church, at least in the wester USA Phoenix eparchy, has a strong tradition of annual House Blessings, (at least in the 3 out of about 20 Parishes that we know well) which does get the priest visiting parishioners, including a Gomez family here in CA. The family has 14 children and many grandchildren. The house was full AND they hosted a very good dinner for the family and the priest's family (my wife and me).
00:35:26 David: When I grew up near Lake Superior every house had a BMC and two crosses put on each door jam by the priest but that was Franciscans
00:35:38 Una: How can a priest balance his need for friendship with being a pastor. If the friend elects to go to confession to another priest, isn't that perhaps preferable. Especially if the person can find another good priest?
00:36:50 Myles Davidson: Our priest is doing house blessings as we speak
00:43:01 Kelli: PRIDE
00:45:06 David: A nice way to handle that is great question how can we find the truth and then delegate yourself and others to come back with different things.
00:50:08 David: Leaders at least in business are best chosen by those who people follow not appointed.
00:53:56 David: Does some of that be the secular take and separation of church and state? It almost seems like there is tolerance or opinions about everything but values based on faith sometimes. When one decides when human life begins there is faith on both sides.
00:55:43 David: I am just wondering if a lot of the difference it based on secular beliefs
00:56:21 David: We act one way in church and are pressured to relativism in the world.
01:04:10 Lyle: Amen, Father.
01:04:34 David: Mmm monetizing BINGO or spiritual direction great point
01:11:38 Lyle: The Holy Spirit can do it!
01:12:04 Maureen Cunningham: Church in Egypt and Middle East is being persecuted
01:12:35 Myles Davidson: The growing interest in the desert fathers in the Church is going to change it in a dramatic way eventually I think
01:13:13 Anna Lalonde: Holy Spirit was moving in you. Don't apologize.
01:14:02 Bob Cihak, AZ: Replying to "Holy Spirit was movi..."
Preach it, Father!!!
01:14:10 Bob Cihak, AZ: Reacted to "Holy Spirit was movi..." with 👍
01:14:15 ANDREW ADAMS: Reacted to "Holy Spirit was movi..." with 👍
01:14:27 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "Preach it, Father!!!" with 🔥
01:15:05 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You Father and everyone such a Blessing
01:15:14 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father!
01:15:16 Suzanne Romano: Pax Vobiscum!
01:15:17 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
01:15:20 Deiren Masterson: Thank you Father
01:15:21 David: Thank you father God bless
01:15:35 Cindy Moran: Thank you@
The human appetites and desires are ever so powerful. This we know from experience. Reflecting upon them through the lens of the ascetic life of the desert fathers shows us the scope and the depth of these realities and how they affect our lives.
The spiritual and psychological astuteness of the desert fathers is unparalleled, but we must read their writings in a discerning fashion. We do not want to overgeneralize certain aspects of their teaching and so develop a negative anthropology; a kind of hatred for the body and its’ natural desires. Indeed there are many stories where certain desert fathers fell into great extremes; making themselves ill or placing themselves in grave danger.
The desert fathers had to learn as we do through experience how to approach these desires and to be clear about what they were truly seeking. The goal is purity of heart; a capacity to love and to give ourselves in love freely and without objectifying the other. Understood in this fashion, purity of heart and chastity should increase our capacity to love. It is not a restriction of our freedom but rather a state of being unfettered by our own desire for satisfaction and pleasure. The human heart can be a treacherous thing and at times can lead us along a path of self-destruction even when that path seems to promise the satisfaction of our hearts’ deepest longing. What the fathers came to understand through experience is that Grace alone can bring the healing that we desire and that Divine Eros is what overcomes disordered Eros. The Love of God dwelling within us opens up a path to the fulfillment of life. It is not control that we seek in the ascetic life but transformation; specifically transformation “in Christ.”
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Text of chat during the group:
00:09:34 Forrest Cavalier: Snowfall in inches in Pittsburgh by season.
00:10:09 Forrest Cavalier: Data from https://www.weather.gov/media/pbz/records/hissnow.pdf
00:10:44 Una: Why do we live in these environs?
00:20:05 Lilly: What page number?
00:20:36 Lori Hatala: 192
00:20:37 Wayne: 192
00:21:03 Lilly: Reacted to "192" with 👍
00:21:06 Lilly: Reacted to "192" with 👍
00:21:37 Una: At last, a woman's experience!
00:36:01 Una: When I'm deep in stillnes, I can see (to some degree) but when I engage with the world, I find it easy to doubt what I've seen
00:36:13 Una: and believed
00:36:16 Personal phone: I often find when I’m trying to exercise discipline (like fasting) on far too many occasions I find myself getting “hangry” and thus an certain I’d be far better to break my fast less than giving into my hanger and exposing that to others
00:36:47 Nikki: What would he have changed to continue clinging to God if it were suggested he lessen his prayer life, fasting, etc?
00:36:54 Una: I suspect this is part of the spiritual battle too and that transitions are important to be guarded
00:38:27 Anthony: As an FYI incase someone distrusts the heart too much: I've run into the opposite error regarding the human heart....the error that says it is so untrustworthy and "totally depraved" that you can't trust anything in your self. I learned it at a formative age, and it's hard to get rid of that error.
00:40:16 Personal phone: Reacted to "I often find when I’…" with ❤️
00:45:34 Una: That comment was a continuation of a previous comment from me
00:46:39 Una: Reacted to "As an FYI incase s..." with ❤️
00:54:10 Nikki: It is natural that the human body has these feelings of arousal, in order for humans to reproduce. What is it the monks here are wanting to achieve? Being able to shut down these hormonal responses in the body? I ask also because this occurs without demonic influence.
00:54:12 Anthony: On this topic of purity, I learned from "The Cave of Treasures" attributed to St Ephrem that the Flood came due to massive fornication.
01:01:02 Lilly: Other than Theology of the Body, are there other sources we can read about this topic?
01:02:13 Lilly: I find it a bit too confusing and romanticized
01:02:26 Judith: Reacted to "I find it a bit too ..." with 👍
01:05:13 Lilly: Like this young monk who didn't have knowledge of his normal bodily functions, how are future-parents supposed to teach their children properly? I don't see myself using Theology of the body as a main source
01:05:48 Anthony: Reacted to Like this young monk... with "👍"
01:08:49 Anthony: Then it looks like the primary teaching should be on the Will: it's formation, inclination, weaknesses and deliberation to do bad or good.
01:09:50 Anthony: Ok. Thank you.
01:14:11 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You Blessing
01:14:19 Personal phone: 6 days! I’d super hangry!
01:15:03 Nikki: Thank you
01:15:09 Suzanne Romano: God bless everyone!
01:15:12 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
01:15:21 Aric B: Thank you Father!
As we read this letter we slowly begin to see that St. John is not presenting his reader with a manual for spiritual direction; that is, specific counsels in regard to practices and disciplines. St. John’s astute psychological observations and his capacity for discernment reveals a heart that has been transformed by love. Contrary to the old adage love is NOT blind. Love, in fact, sees all things with greater clarity.
One of the things that we struggle with in our day is a tendency to dissect certain realities (as well as personalities) in order that we might see ourselves as understanding them or being able to control them. The desert fathers, however, never allow us to lose sight of the mystery of the human person or the relationship that is at the heart of Christianity. A human person is not the sum of their actions or their opinions any more than God can be reduced to the teachings of the catechism. Love draws us in to the mystery of God and also allows us to see the presence of God in the other. If any Christian, let alone any elder, loses sight of this then our interactions with others are going to become grossly distorted and our view of God myopic. Love must shape our hearts and expand them to the dimensions of God himself.
This may seem to be an absurdity and yet it is the reality that has been revealed to us. God has become man in order that man might become God. Our Lord assumes all that there is in the human experience - our sin, sorrow, failure, weakness and death. He embraces all in order that we might never be in isolation and that his presence within us might also be a source of radical healing. The miracles in the gospel merely show us the desire of God to remove every obstacle in our experience of His life.
Therefore, an elder must have experiential knowledge of this Love; especially how it touches the woundedness of our sin and our experience of hopelessness and isolation. The elder must become that love so as to enter into the sufferings of those who come to him. Whatever guidance he offers, whatever correction he makes, must be rooted in a love that is curative and that seeks to raise up the other. Only one who has encountered the wonder of such Divine Love has the capacity to enter into and take upon himself the vulnerability of the other. In this sense, the spiritual elder and his role cannot be seen outside of his relationship with Christ; for it is only the love of Christ that can possibly bring healing to the human heart.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:04:47 Anna Lalonde: What about them?
00:05:37 Anna Lalonde: I'm in GA. Where are they?
00:15:30 Anna Lalonde: We finally got both books for family gift and we're ordering four volumes too.
00:27:58 Myles Davidson: I know someone who has never owned a computer and goes to the library to use the internet, due to his fear of what it might lead to
00:30:22 Anna Lalonde: We experienced a family friendship break and after saw how we fell into sin or lessened our way of life. Such an awakening experience.
00:31:49 Lyle: His fear may be VERY warranted. How often does the devil DIRECTLY attack us? His friend may view something that “appears” very innocent, but it may lead to something very evil.
00:38:04 Anna Lalonde: My sister is a missionary of charity. Love her letters home on guidance to family.
00:42:06 Lyle: A word of ecouragement from a recovering ADDICT.
00:42:23 Andres Oropeza: St. Theophane wrote that we should picture a lazy man sitting in his room. His house is on fire but you wouldn’t tell him it’s fire, you would let him see the flames. Then he would be roused to look for a way out; an open door, a window. He said the Holy Spirit does this for us. Maybe we can do this for others too, patiently and lovingly help them to see that their way of life is harmful and were it inevitably leads.
Though often times I think we wouldn’t try to escape even once we realize our house is on fire. I’ve experienced this myself!
00:42:33 Lyle: Avoid ANYTHING that appears "questionable".
00:43:58 Lyle: Myles' friend.
01:04:51 David: We often sit back and hope for miracles but all these verbs the Lord uses requiere us to be doing things first before the remedy can be found-“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.
01:09:03 Suzanne Romano: A great confessor I had always used to say, "There's a time for every grace."
01:13:32 MOME hermits: Thank you Fr. David, Blessed Solemnity of Mary and New Year :)!
01:13:40 MOME hermits: Fr. Charbel
01:13:46 Joanne Martinez: Thank you!
01:13:53 Suzanne Romano: Thank you!
01:13:57 Aric B: Thank you Father!
01:13:58 David: Have a blessed 2025! Thank you father
01:14:03 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you. Happy New Year everyone🙂
After many weeks of reading the hypotheses on fornication and the pursuit of purity of heart, what finally comes into focus is the fruit of the fathers’ experience in the struggle. What they discovered is that discipline, fasting, vigils, etc. are absolutely necessary. Yet these practices are not ends in themselves. They are to be a reflection of our desire for God and our seeking in love our soul’s Beloved.
Desire is what gives us the capacity to love and give ourselves in love. In it we sense a lack that only God can satisfy. Ascetic practice is not meant to be an act of contempt for our human nature, but rather an acknowledgment of the strength and the power of our natural desires. What is good can become disordered whenever there is an imbalance or lack of measure. Our natural desire, Eros, can only be transformed by Divine Eros. Therefore, it is only by grace that the passions can be overcome. Our hearts must be filled with an urgent longing for God.
Outside of the acknowledgment of the necessity of Grace, we become the most pitiable of all creatures. So long as we hold onto the illusion of overcoming the passions by raw grit, we will find ourselves returning to our sin or sinking into a much darker place of anger and pride. St. John Cassian tells us we must “base our courage not on our own power or on our asceticism, but in the aid of God, our Master”. When this takes place, even the deepest recesses of the unconscious can be healed and transformed. Likewise, the countenance of the pure of heart begins to change; we begin to see the inner beauty that rest in the heart of one who loves and desires God wholly.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:04:03 Lori Hatala: reboot
00:12:17 Una: Problem with sound?
00:12:25 Una: Yes
00:13:01 Una: It's good now
00:13:08 Una: . Can hear you humming
00:16:33 Lilly: Do you know Fr Teodosy?
00:16:34 ANDREW ADAMS: My copy came today!
00:21:09 Una: What page? I'm lost
00:21:23 ANDREW ADAMS: 190
00:21:50 Una: Thanks
00:32:34 Lilly: Asking this question respectfully, if a Priest can’t cure his passion, would it be appropriate to take medicine to help ?
00:33:37 Lilly: Generally speaking, no specific medicatiob
00:33:42 Lilly: n*
00:37:28 Suzanne Romano: My experience has been that the grace of continence is given to those who use the means God gives, and is diligent in avoiding the occasions of sin.
00:48:38 Anthony: Life is like art. Each of us is a unique material: canvas, copper foil, paper, wood. Part of Christian life is learning what material we are and what techniques best bring out the beatific vision in the material we are. The same image can be brought out uniquely in each different art.
00:52:24 Suzanne Romano: Father, may I ask a question that relates to the previous Hypotheses on gluttony?
00:52:37 Forrest Cavalier: Elias in the earlier story did not mutilate, emasculate, or injure himself. By avoiding injury, keeping his masculinity intact, and building on nature, he returned to serve the convent in a very masculine and fatherly way for a long time. It would have been tragic if he deformed the gifts God had given him.
00:52:52 Myles Davidson: Is using caffeine during a night vigil cheating?
00:54:22 Una: It can mess with your sleep when you do get to bed
00:54:59 Una: I used to write until 3 a.m. during my last novel.
00:56:09 Suzanne Romano: Father, may I ask a question that relates to the previous Hypotheses on gluttony?
00:56:59 Suzanne Romano: Thank you. I can distill three principles from the readings: Eat once per day; stop eating before you are completely full; and never eat for the sheer sake of pleasure or comfort. If one takes up these three principles as a regular discipline, are there ever times when it is permissible to take something just for pleasure or comfort - say on Sundays or on Holidays - say, a dessert or a hot cocoa, etc?
00:59:25 Anthony: Haha
00:59:34 Carol Roper: Reacted to "Haha" with 👍
01:01:57 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Haha" with 🍝
01:02:12 Suzanne Romano: Reacted to Haha with "🍝"
01:06:02 Rebecca Thérèse: Psychologists think that impulse control is a good thing in areas where it suits them!
01:06:03 Maureen Cunningham: Maybe it just a season when a person get rid of fleshly desires
01:06:37 Maureen Cunningham: Not forever maybe a Season
01:10:22 Una: I think in Cassian's Conferences, he talks about how you spend your day will be reflected in your nighttime dreams. For example, if you aren't occupied with God during the day, you will have these troubling dreams
01:10:32 Bob Cihak, AZ: I'm 84 and finally started "settling down" several years ago.
01:10:36 Myles Davidson: Conference 12
01:10:53 Adam Paige: Reacted to "I'm 84 and finally s..." with 😇
01:11:00 Una: Thanks, Myles!
01:11:09 Myles Davidson: Interestingly the 19th C. translation refused to translate this conference
01:11:26 Myles Davidson: Too spicy for them
01:11:34 Wayne: Replying to "I think in Cassian's..."
Good point, thanks for this observation.
01:14:20 Una: Another mystical operation!
01:14:33 Una: How can we understand these?
01:21:40 Wayne: YOU might find the movies on You Tube
01:21:56 Myles Davidson: Replying to "YOU might find the m..."
Yes its there
01:22:17 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you. Happy New Year everyone.🙂
01:22:23 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You Father Lords Blessing In the New Year
01:22:26 MOME hermits: Thank you Fr. David!
01:23:09 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father!
01:23:12 Suzanne Romano: Great meeting! Thanks!
How do we approach in our own lives the interior struggle for purity of heart, chastity? The battle, as we see in the writings of the fathers can be incredibly fierce. Part of this intense struggle is that that it is the human condition: sexuality and sensuality are part of what it is to be a human being. Furthermore, as we are in a constant state of receptivity through our senses, there are so many things that can stimulate the desires associated with this appetite.
We also know that we can be lazy about understanding this reality of human life and equally lazy in the spiritual life in seeking the grace and wisdom of God to order our desires towards that which is holy. Furthermore, our struggle is also with principalities and powers. The fathers teach us that the demons are provoked by envy when they see an individual growing in holiness. Therefore, they will terrorize an individual by placing images and fantasies before them.
On an emotional and spiritual level, this often gives rise to a terrible sense of shame, casting the soul into despondency and despair. As a person struggles with this passion, the sense of vulnerability is great precisely because it is such a deep part of who we are as human beings. The demons use that sense of shame to their advantage. The mere presence of thoughts tied to this passion frustrate the soul and fragment the mind. The demons will also use the shame to manipulate the way that we respond to the struggle; they will seek to make us a demonize human desire and sexuality in order that we might repress it in such a way that it distorts our perception of reality. They do so to keep our focus off of God and his grace. If they can keep us in despair and make us believe that God is disappointed with us, then they have won the battle. If we ignore them and turn the mind and the heart to God in prayer and rest in his grace then we are not only freed of their temptations, but experience the peace of the kingdom.
In an uncanny way, the fathers saw and understood all of this through experience; many after 40 years of struggling came to experience freedom only through their abandonment to God and his mercy. It is then, when humbled in mind and body, that they were consoled. Having received such a gift, it then became their responsibility to console others in this delicate yet fierce struggle.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:15:28 Rachel: Hi
00:15:42 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 188, Mid-page "From the Same Author"
00:18:05 Bob Cihak, AZ: Thanks. "Fornication" = lust as well as physical actions or interactions. if I understand correctly?
00:41:34 Forrest Cavalier: The first two accounts in this hypothesis are warning to even those who do not struggle with the intensity of this kind of temptation. Those who are unmolested are not safe by their own efforts only. God's grace is at work.
00:41:54 Rachel: I find it interesting that we can be more comfortable with admitting anger, envy, ambition and other forms of pride into the heart yet are filled with shame for temptations against purity. Do you think that other sins such as anger cease with the grace of purity of heart?
00:56:18 Rachel: Thank you. You touched upon how we see each other thank you
00:58:01 Una: I did an article years ago for the National Catholic Register about the dismal record of marriages breaking apart when the couple had been living together. Stats were very bad.
01:00:42 Vanessa: Exactly why I homeschool:)
01:03:35 MOME hermits: You are so right on with all of that Fr. David. We love your balance in it all.
01:03:58 Vanessa: Reacted to "You are so right on ..." with ❤️
01:05:31 MOME hermits: Yes, to help facilitate the person going where they need to, to hear from God within.
01:14:10 Phil: Father, could you kindly attempt to reconcile the type of vexation that a saint like Padre Pio experienced, with the quote form Jesus in the gospels, where he says, "...my yolk is easy, my burdern is light." Thank you!
01:15:12 Rachel: Not just making a fool out of ourselves by defending our own honor but losing our very Life, christ Himself
01:23:07 Rachel: Thank you
01:23:08 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂 Happy Christmas everyone 🎄
01:23:21 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father
As one moves along through this text, one begins to understand that St. John Climacus is not only addressing elders but all those who have the care of souls. Fundamentally this is every Christian!There is no radical individualism in our faith, nor do we see ourselves disconnected from the sins of others and the burdens they bear. Love, compels us to be attentive to the other; not in a condescending fashion, but attending to them with the tenderness and compassion that we have received from Christ. Our Lord is the archetype for us and the consolation that we receive from his hand we are to offer to others freely.
The fundamental virtues of an elder are humility and obedience; that is, truthful living and the capacity to listen. How can one serve others when there is any focus on the self or when they are still in the grip of the passions? There is nothing so unseemly as an angry elder - one who looks at others with a harsh eye or is always quick to investigate trifling sins. The elder must be driven by love that makes him ever vigilant and watchful of those things that can be obstacles to the spiritual development of those in his care. He cannot be lax in fulfilling this responsibility or timid and cowardly in offering correction. He must be willing to offer counsel even when there is no thirst for understanding.
One begins to understand that such a responsibility is carried out with fear and trembling. The care of souls carries within it the Cross; it is crucified love that guides the elder and gives light to his path. He is never a passive observer, but one who like Christ looks out and acknowledges the crowds as being sheep without a shepherd; in fact, as sheep already mauled by the wolves and in desperate need of healing. Thus, the capacity to care for others in this fashion is not something that can be set aside; nor can the abilities that God has given to an elder be buried in the ground with drawing down His wrath.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:09:34 Una: Does Father send out handouts in email?
00:10:08 Una: Could I get one at Una.McManus@gmail.com?
00:10:25 Adam Paige: https://mcusercontent.com/c38acab568d650f7ef65f39df/files/22eb6d8c-a2f9-1ed8-1270-b5bcd86c22f6/To_the_Shepherd.01.pdf
00:10:31 Una: Thank you
00:10:43 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Thank you" with 👍
00:12:22 Una: Yes for me on New Year DAy
00:12:26 Sam: Greetings from Hot 🔥 Australia Fr
00:12:39 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Greetings from Hot ..." with 🇦🇺
00:18:01 paul g.: Amen
00:21:55 Bob Cihak, AZ: Amen, Amen!
00:33:54 Mary Clare Wax: Fr. it is so refreshing listening to you. We love your contemplative spirit and your love for the desert father teachings. Thank you. We appreciate your present sharing on the priesthood. So true.
00:34:22 susan: Amen
00:36:20 Bob Cihak, AZ: Reacted to "Fr. it is so refresh..." with 👍
00:37:22 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "Fr. it is so refresh..." with 👍
00:38:31 Andres Oropeza: Is it always pride when you have trouble trusting your spiritual Father because of his manner of life or that of his monks? I feel like I’m judging him/them but I also have serious misgivings. Could it be just a test of obedience where the Lord wants me to obey even with the misgivings, to have faith before understanding ?
00:41:56 Bob Cihak, AZ: As the fathers and you say, the wisdom required to be a spiritual leader is learned from and with experience, not just book learning, which usually required a lot of time.
00:43:08 MOME hermits: I (sr charista maria) believe Mary's special presence in our times helps to make up for what is lacking in the priesthood today, when we have a special relationship with her.
00:49:32 David: The orthodox later republished that as Unseen Warfare by Nicodemus of the Holy Mountain and Theophan the Recluse
00:49:47 Kate : Father, could you address what to do when one experiences a spiritual father who is not mentally healthy and whose guidance not sound? In this case, I would think that one must pay attention to their misgivings. We lived through this and sadly witnessed much damage done to souls.
00:50:24 Maureen Cunningham: Christ was betrayed
01:14:07 Victor - WV: Thanks to all, to Father as well. Merry Christmas! 🎄 🙏🏼
01:14:26 Bob Cihak, AZ: Reacted to "Thanks to all, to Fa..." with 👍
01:14:47 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "Thanks to all, to Fa..." with 👍
01:16:02 Laura: Reacted to "Thanks to all, to Fa..." with 🎄
01:16:17 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Thanks to all, to Fa..." with 🎄
01:20:00 Andres Oropeza: I think it was in this book where it describes the spiritual father being like Moses stretching his arms out so his child can pass through the sea unharmed. Beautiful image
Off topic, but does it make a bad confession if you feel like you should’ve confessed to your spiritual father that you judged him specifically (vs just judging people) but didn’t because of anxiety ?
01:23:26 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You
01:23:28 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂Happy Christmas everyone🎄
01:23:29 David: Thank you Father and God Bless you and your mother! Merry Christmas! As we celebrate his birth may he be reborn anew in our hearts.
01:24:17 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father!
01:24:27 Rachel: Thank you father
01:24:28 Deiren Masterson: Thank you Father.
01:24:36 liz sabath: Thank you Father!!
01:24:37 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: BleSSED Christmas~
Once again, we find ourselves in the midst of the laboratory of the desert and watching the Fathers’ struggle with the passions, in particular the passion of fornication or lust. The beauty in this, of course, is that we are placed in the privileged position of seeing their struggle from the inside; dealing with both the passion and also learning how to engage in the ascetic life in a measured fashion.
It is made clear that we are to struggle with our whole being and to be fully engaged in the battle. On a physical level, this means restraining our appetites. We hear that the monks understood that they must not give themselves over to satiation in regard to bodily appetites. They must humble the mind and body in order that they might cling more to God in their prayer and trust in his grace. This meant, of course, the experience of privation; but it also opened them up to the richness of the interior life and the depth of prayer. Therefore, it was not just an act of endurance but also an expression of hope in God and his promises. More importantly we might say it is an expression of love. We are willing to make great sacrifices for the things that we hold to be precious. When we love God and the things of God, when we love virtue and prayer, we will do all in our power to attain it and maintain it.
With hypothesis 26, we begin to see the fruit of their long experience in the ascetic life. They could see that they often emphasized the wrong thing in the spiritual battle or became unmeasured in their disciplines to the point of losing sight of God. One can become so fixated on overcoming a particular passion or fighting with the thoughts of the demons, that they fall into pride by failing to emphasize the one thing alone that can overcome the demons, as well as draw the natural into the supernatural; that is, the grace of God. To say that Christianity is an ascetical religion is not to say that the discipline of such a life and the exercise of our faith is an end in itself. The end of our striving is love and and theosis – intimacy, union, with the triune God.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:08:09 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 184, # 12
00:13:00 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 184, # 12
00:21:05 Adam Paige: “A clear rule for self-control handed down by the Fathers is this: stop eating while still hungry and do not continue until you are satisfied.” - St John Cassian, On the Eight Vices
00:21:43 paul g.: Reacted to "“A clear rule for se…" with ✔️
00:21:47 Bob Cihak, AZ: Thanks, Adam.
00:21:50 paul g.: Reacted to "P. 184, # 12" with ✔️
00:21:52 Phil: Modern medicine also says humans need 12 serving of carbs a day and half as much dairy. Bless their heart, they are trying! ... "Lord forgive them, for they know not what they do!"
00:23:30 Myles Davidson: Because people need differing amounts of sleep or food, what would you say is the thing we should be looking out for, to know we are getting the right amounts of both. Is it a clarity of mind and attention in prayer? Anything else?
00:26:16 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Thanks, Adam." with 👍
00:28:49 Andres Oropeza: Is it always a bad thing to derive comfort from food? I mean a hot meal is preferable to a cold one during winter especially. Or a hot drink really sets you at ease after being outside in the cold. Should we shun the comfort and just eat cold meals and drink cold drinks (or hot if the drink isn’t good hot). Or is the comfort only an issue when it becomes the point of eating?
00:30:48 Myles Davidson: There have been plenty of studies done on rats that reducing caloric intake extends life.
00:31:21 Adam Paige: “Stand at the brink of despair, and when you see that you cannot bear it anymore, draw back a little, and have a cup of tea.” - Saint Sophrony Sakharov
00:36:03 Carol Roper: it seems like the issue is longing. to what do we direct our longing. Advent strikes me as a season of longing.
00:40:16 Myles Davidson: @Phil What was the name of that Elder with the stages of the Jesus Prayer
00:40:37 Adam Paige: @Phil What was the name of that Elder with the stages of the Jesus Prayer Father Archimandrite Ilie Cleopa
00:40:42 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "@Phil What was the n..." with 🙏
00:44:04 Liz D: Reacted to "it seems like the ..." with ❤️
00:48:09 Phil: Yea, Ramana died in middle age, but his extreme fasting (starting in his teenage years) does seem to have shortened his life.
00:49:12 Phil: Replying to "@Phil What was the n..."
Yes, I believe that is him!
00:49:38 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "Yes, I believe that ..." with 👍
00:50:26 Phil: Yes, there are at least a half dozen videos on YouTube of Cleopa himself giving spiritual advice.
00:50:58 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "Yes, there are at le..." with 👍
01:03:20 Adam Paige: The Struggle with God - Paul Evdokimov (PDF) https://jbburnett.com/resources/evdokimov_strugglewGod1966.pdf
01:03:24 Phil: "The mystics are a law unto themselves." Fr. Anthony De Mello.
01:03:56 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "The Struggle with Go..." with 👍
01:06:07 Adam Paige: “It behooves us as well to destroy the sinners in our land-namely, our fleshly feelings-on the morning of their birth, as they emerge, and, while they are still young, to dash the children of Babylon against the rock. Unless they are killed at a very tender age they will, with our acquiescence, rise up to our harm as stronger adults, and they will certainly not be overcome without great pain and effort.” St John Cassian, The Institutes (6th Book: The Spirit of Fornication)
01:16:51 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You Father
01:17:15 Phil: LOL, that's great! Thank you, Father.
01:18:05 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father!
01:18:08 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
01:18:13 Aric B: Thank you Father!
Sometimes during a group it is as if a light comes on that illuminates some aspect of life in a magnificent fashion and that speaks to each person in the group whatever their background or station in life. This was true in particular this evening as we continued to discuss St. John’s writing “To the Shepherd” on the responsibilities of a spiritual elder. As we made our way through the text, it became clear that St. John’s teaching about the care of souls applies to all of those who are responsible for the formation of others; not only priests or religious, but also parents, teachers, friends, etc.
Not one of us is free from the charge of the salvation of others; aiding them through our prayers, taking opportune moments to clarify their understanding of the faith, being living witnesses of the gospel and the love of the cross. All of us have the responsibility of seeking purity of heart and freedom from the passions in order that we might be able to discern with clarity and humility the needs of those around us. Lacking this, St. John tells us, we undermine our capacity to be well disposed and compassionate to each individual for whom we are responsible or who enters our life. How is it that we can serve others if we cannot discern good from evil and everything in between?
In fact, St. John tells us it is a great disgrace for a superior to pray for or hold forward spiritual gifts to others that he himself is not acquired. How is it that he can faithfully guide others to God and to become partakers of the glory of God if he has no understanding of this within his own heart. Experience is the truest teacher and if the superior lacks that experience, he may only bring harm to others.
Those who are spiritual elders, fathers, or mothers, must not be tempted to set aside this role in order to enjoy worldly friendship with those in their charge. It can be a natural thing to want companionship and to some extent this can exist. However, if a familiarity develops between the superior and others, he may lose the capacity to guide and feel constrained to do the bidding of others; never to contradict them, refuse them, or correct them.
The elder must be pure of heart and able to understand the interior life and also the realities that sanctify us within the life of the church. The elder must be able to create a culture that forms a mind and heart directed toward God, the love of neighbor and the love of virtue. He must be able to discern the emotional capacity and maturity of others, so as not to push too hard and risk breaking their spirit or neglect giving counsel or correction of those who are quick witted and naturally gifted.
Such purity of heart alone allows the elder to perceive supernatural realities and to understand the struggles that individuals have with multiple demons. The elder must be able to cure passions thought by others to be incurable. In this sense, he must have truly put on the mind of Christ and be the most humble and obedient member of the community.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:14:02 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 251, # 14 00:19:16 carol_000: Is much known about the repentance of Joseph's brothers or God chastising them for their treatment of Joseph 00:26:27 David: I think this is a big problem also in families. My oldest son felt I was often to hard on him. Now that he is 27 he has mentioned several times that I was the only one that loved him and was always there. It is really hard but being a father is different than being a friend only there to enjoy the good times and not try to guide someone to what has value. 00:28:48 Art: Reacted to "I think this is a bi..." with 👍 00:28:52 Catherine Eisenbrandt: Father when you are entrusted to forming children it is easy to understand friendship with angels and saints is beneficial for them but how can you explain that to a child who is suffering from isolation 00:29:17 David: Well from 15-22 we are idiots but we get smarter and as time goes on even seen as wise. ha ha 00:35:31 Anthony: The cultivation of religious imagination must be cultivated so as to distinguish this "friendship" from "imaginary friend" or a dialogue in the mind with oneself. 00:36:38 Carol Roper: My 10 year old loves those books 00:37:27 Carol Roper: They’re like graphic novels 00:37:34 David: One nice tradtion with small t is in Spain where you celebrate "Tu Santo" or your saints day with the same passion as a birthday. Cake, read the life etc. I did this with my kids when they were younger and it makes an impact later. 00:38:36 David: The saints let the light of God enter into our life and saints through the windows. 00:39:15 Una: Who is this author? 00:39:54 Myles Davidson: Replying to "Who is this author?" https://creativeorthodox.com/ 00:40:10 Una: Thank you 00:41:43 Art: https://www.themerrybeggars.com/shows/the-saints The Saints: Adventures of Faith and Courage A daily podcast bringing the Saints to life with award-winning actors, writers, and sound designers. Thrilling and inspiring stories to ignite your family's faith. Intended for children but I really enjoy them too. My sons really enjoyed the episode on Moses the Black. 00:42:10 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "https://www.themerry..." with 👍 00:42:11 Anna Lalonde: That's what we do! 00:43:27 David: This is nice at bed time for kids or better to read with your own voice. LibriVox 00:43:44 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "https://www.themerry..." with 👍🏼 00:44:07 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "This is nice at bed ..." with 👍🏼 00:45:07 carol_000: Thank you All for the Links 00:45:52 Art: Reacted to "This is nice at bed ..." with 👍🏼 00:46:07 Anna Lalonde: Reacted to This is nice at bed ... with "👍🏼" 00:46:20 Anna Lalonde: Thank you David! 00:49:43 Anthony: Mass media kills imagination and familyblife 00:50:28 David: The way of the Pilgrim really impacted me and how this moves the orthodox both to the divine liturgy and the Philokalhia. Where in the west se send people to St. Thomas before they can really understand it. I like the hospital of the sick how do I deal with all the 8 evil thoughts not intellectual gymnastics and memorizing proofs. As least I have always struggled with discernment I don't get a lot of that from intellect but focusing on being close to God. When I taught a mentor said: don't teach them to memorize you only need to teach "the love of learning" and learning will follow. I think the same is true for faith- learn to love God the other things fall into place. 00:53:37 Myles Davidson: Replying to "The way of the Pilgr..." Way of the Pilgrim had a big impact on me too 00:53:48 Carol Roper: Reacted to "https://www.themerry…" with 👍 00:53:58 Carol Roper: Reacted to "This is nice at bed …" with 👍🏼 00:54:03 David: Replying to "The way of the Pilgr..." 👍 I thought it was just me. Thanks 00:54:16 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "👍 I thought it was ..." with 👍 00:54:55 Myles Davidson: Replying to "The way of the Pilgr..." @David Inspired me to pray the Jesus prayer to a much greater degree 00:55:45 Anna Lalonde: Yes, love of learning is what we do. My children are into all kinds of things now because they love learning. 00:55:54 David: Replying to "The way of the Pilgr..." Me too I always carry a prayer rope with me now 00:56:15 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "Me too I always carr..." with 👍 00:56:44 David: Replying to "The way of the Pilgr..." Instead of wasting time I can dedicate that time to God. Waiting at a Dr. office with my Dad, stuck in traffic 00:56:59 Myles Davidson: Replying to "The way of the Pilgr..." @David Yes, me too 00:57:29 David: Replying to "The way of the Pilgr..." Thanks ! Nice to know there are at least two of us. ha ha 00:57:40 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "Thanks ! Nice to kno..." with 🙏 00:59:17 Anthony: The Holy Trinity is subliminal. Most real & underlying reality. More real and more clear than "real life." 01:01:24 David: Replying to "Thank you David!" My pleasure Anna I hope you find it helpful. I really struggled raising my kids alone with time 01:02:01 Vanessa: Reacted to "I think this is a bi..." with ❤️ 01:04:13 Maureen Cunningham: How long was the early church . Hour or many hours 01:16:06 susan: physics break through all atoms interacting/from beginning to end throughout all time/ action impacts all the atoms one way or another gave me such a deeper understanding of Jesus liturgy Eucharist the actions of the Mass present to all time and how Jesus 2000 years ago can actually be Here in the Mass now made liturgy real to me. Helps me to see Jesus real with me now (Jesus prayer) 01:16:11 Aric B: Regarding the subject of paragraph #17. I have been reading a book that is about us living with Christs mysteries as also our mysteries to be experienced throughout liturgy and the liturgical year. 01:19:11 David: It is not what we get out of the mass in entertainment but what we bring to the table of the Lord. I see this as a big difference and evangelical friends are often dumbstruck when I mention this. The book "The supper of the Lamb" has really helped many come home in my experience. 01:22:06 Victor - WV: Thank you, Father, & all. 01:22:20 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You Father & everyone 01:22:33 Alexandra: Thank you Father. I'll pray for you 01:23:11 Cindy Moran: Great session tonight! Thank you, Father. 01:23:13 Jeff O.: Thank you Father! Great to be with you all. 01:23:15 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 😊 01:23:18 Aric B: Thank you Father! 01:23:22 David: Thank you father and may God bless you and your mother! 01:23:35 carol_000: Thank you Father 01:23:42 Alexandra: Thank you everyone 01:24:41 David: God does not speak through one of us but all of us is what my Grandmother always said. Thank you Father for being our guide
We were taken very deep this evening; not only into our understanding of the passion of lust or fornication, but also deep into the human mind and heart and how they function. The anthropology of the Desert Fathers was astute and profound. Despite residing in the desert, far removed from converse with both men and women, they knew the nature of the human person very well. We are sexual beings; that is, our sexuality is part of the experience of ourselves within the reality of this world and in our relationships with others. We relate to others in and through our sexuality; not consciously but simply as part of the reality the shapes are perceptions. This in turn shapes are imagination and understanding - again in ways that we often do not perceive.
The Fathers teach us to keep this in mind in regard to the spiritual struggles that we have surrounding our appetites, in particular sensuality. These natural human appetites are very powerful and shapes us in both conscious and unconscious ways.
Furthermore, these realities are not unknown to the demons. They are relentless and crafty in how they try to divert the mind and the heart away from God. We were given a couple of interesting stories this evening about young boys who came to the monastery as children having never experienced or seen a woman. Yet, in both accounts, they find themselves either overwhelmed by the thoughts associated with this particular passion or having such thoughts manifest themselves in their dreams.
How is this possible one might wonder? Well at least it tells us why we must be vigilant and watch all of the movements of our minds and our hearts and what we expose ourselves to on a day-to-day basis. But it also tells us that the influence can be far more subtle than we imagine, and that we can be moved simply by the natural desire itself or by demonic provocation. The demons through the words and actions of others, or through our subtle observations of the world around us, can influence the turn of our minds to the things that take hold of the are imagination. Of course, this can be completely benign. Yet it will be used against us in the spiritual battle. Therefore, if we wonder why the Fathers emphasize the necessity of such intense vigilance and the humbling of the mind and the body through prayer and fasting, we begin to see that it is because they had no superficial understanding of the human person. They understood this realities better than we do in our own day; the mystery of the human person, the forces at work within us, the contradictions that we bear within our own minds and how we can even be drawn to things that are clearly destructive. Therefore, in an unvarnished fashion, they make it clear to us that we must create a new habit of mind, a habit of virtue. Our hearts must become attached to the Lord and the Lord alone if we desire to know the holiness and freedom that he makes possible for us. What they speak of is beautiful beyond measure - a life caught up in the eternal love of Christ. Will we seek it out for ourselves?
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Text of chat during the group: 00:01:40 Phil: Fr. who is the cloacked figure in the icon over your left shoulder? 00:02:21 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 183, # 9 00:03:39 Bob Cihak, AZ: “The Ascetical Homilies of Saint Isaac the Syrian, revised 2nd Edition” published by Holy Transfiguration Monastery, https://www.bostonmonks.com/product_info.php/products_id/635 . 00:05:03 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 183, # 9 00:17:05 Bob Cihak, AZ: “The Ascetical Homilies of Saint Isaac the Syrian, revised 2nd Edition” was published in 2011 00:19:13 Adam Paige: Reacted to "“The Ascetical Homil..." with 👍 00:28:32 Anthony: It could also be that these particular women were clandestinely visiting, and the child saw them in drowsiness. 00:37:07 Lisa: Does a person need a spiritual director (or other such person) to help with the healing of the imagination and memories? Or does the person simply ask the Lord in prayer? 00:51:27 Anthony: Well, even Heaven is not the final goal. It's a partway point to the more perfect cohabitation and collaboration with God and men. Like this, a monastic life isn't the resting place either. 01:05:35 Vanessa: Thank you, Father. 01:05:39 Maureen Cunningham: Thank you Father 01:06:28 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father
We continued our reading and discussion of the treatment and cures that the spiritual father must understand for every malady that afflicts a person in the spiritual life. He must understand not only how to apply them but also the manner they are applied to each individual person with their unique needs. No person is the same and in the spiritual battle the elder must understand the subtle manifestations of spiritual illness and the manner in which various cures might be applied.
One of the most striking aspects of tonight’s discussion was on the capacity of the elder to be free from and endure nausea and to be able to untiringly strive to dispel the stench of vomit. Of course, St. John is speaking about sin itself and the willingness of the elder to enter into the darkness in which the other person finds himself; to descend into their hell and to endure the stench of sin itself. The capacity to do this comes through engaging in the spiritual battle throughout the course of one’s life and attending in obedience to the counsel of one’s own spiritual father. The lack of nausea and the ability to endure the stench of the vomit of sin comes from having long been immersed in it through one’s own struggles. Compassion is born in a powerful way through the experience of common trials.
Beyond this, St. John tells that the shepherd must experience blessed dispassion. In other words, he must be free of the passions that would blind him and his ability to discern the particular needs of those in his care. This discernment allows the elder to illuminate the path that leads to repentance and so gives him the capacity to “resurrect every dead soul”.
This is the identity that every Christian soul should seek to embrace. While it’s true that not everyone is called to be a spiritual elder, every Christian by virtue of their baptism is called to the holiness described here and given the responsibility for the care of souls in their midst. We are responsible for the salvation and goodwill of those around us as much as we are responsible for our own.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:04:47 Anna Lalonde: Well my kids learned to walk up our hallway wall today so you up for that Father? 😄 00:08:41 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 250, # 12 halfway down "An ointment...." 00:10:11 Lori Hatala: https://gmail.us8.list-manage.com/track/click?u=c38acab568d650f7ef65f39df&id=3f6ad96818&e=b6af48f1a0 00:10:52 Lori Hatala: link for To the Shephard pdf 00:11:18 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 250, # 12 halfway down "An ointment...." 00:25:47 Anna Lalonde: Anyone have a link for buying this version? 00:27:09 Bob Cihak, AZ: The current book is The Ladder of Divine Ascent by Saint John Climacus at https://www.bostonmonks.com/product_info.php/products_id/569 . 00:41:33 Anna Lalonde: Replying to "The current book is ..." Thank you! Ordered 00:43:28 Bob Cihak, AZ: Replying to "The current book is ..." Good! It's on the expensive side, but is well worth it; the quality of the book exceeds its price. 00:45:11 Anna Lalonde: In Roman Catholic there are Spiritual Director certificates. But I love using Desert Fathers for this aspect with my clients. 00:51:23 Anna Lalonde: I prefer Catholic Coaching versus Therapy because it's an integrative of the soul as the trauma is affecting the soul. 00:55:52 Myles Davidson: Jung had very high praise for the Catholic Mass and felt that Catholicism was the closest thing to psychotherapy Interestingly enough 00:58:20 David: There is a nice podcast by Fr. Joshua Macoul called "Healing the Unresolved" but I don't know what school he ascribes to but does mention the desert fathers sometimes. 01:01:35 David: In the presence of nothing, everything is revealed. Can't remember which desert father wrote this but it stuck in my head. 01:02:40 Kate : What about the role of the grace of priesthood in shepherding of souls? I know there are some Catholic spiritual direction training programs that train laity to be spiritual directors. But what about the grace of priesthood in leading souls? Isn’t this something that cannot be “trained” so to speak? 01:07:05 Anna Lalonde: I agree Father! As a certified Catholic Coach and a Certified Catholic Spiritual Director. My living the ascetic life and domestic monastics while studying desert fathers is very great so I can serve souls. 01:07:08 David: Not a criticism but it seems with all the honey, coffee, handicrafts and items monasteries produce it might be better to offer spiritual direction and donations through patreon or something? My old parish priest mentioned he did not have capacity to offer spiritual direction to all the young people we had in catechism. There seems to be a great lack of this for most parishes. 01:07:49 Anna Lalonde: Agree David! 01:17:26 Phil: Thank you, Father and Victor, for your responses. 01:18:16 Céline: Thank you father God Bless you. 01:18:23 Victor - WV: Thank you! 01:19:23 Bob Cihak, AZ: Sometimes it's focus, not digression. 01:19:24 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father! 01:19:37 Jeff O.: Thank you!! Great to be with you all! 01:20:10 Aric Bukiri: Thank you Father! 01:20:11 David: Thank you Father. May God bless you and your mother! 01:20:17 Rachel: Thank you!
We continued our reflection upon the fathers’ writing on fornication and the passion of lust. What becomes immediately clear is how much they prized this virtue and how important they saw it for the spiritual life as a whole. Purity of heart has always been connected, rightly wrongly, with purity on the level of sensuality. The fact that the fathers valued it so greatly also led them into a kind of fierce ascetic battle to attain it. At times they could fall into extremes and excess - leading to a weakening of the body almost to the point of death. They had to learn that the disciplining of the body through fasting, vigils and prayer is only part of the struggle. The more important element is relying upon the grace of God and trusting in him in the midst of the spiritual warfare.
One of the things that have made this battle with fornication so difficult is the shame that is often associated with it; not only with the physical act itself, but the relentless thoughts that often afflict an individual. This shame often creates an internal agitation and anxiety that makes a person more vulnerable to seeking immediate physical relief. Shame also has led asceticism to be used as a defense mechanism, causing many to repress the desires that they have rather than allowing them to be transformed by the grace of God and by a growing attachment to and love for him. Inevitably such repression will break down and the same desires will manifest themselves in an even stronger fashion. It is for this reason that the demons become the greatest accuser of one who has fallen into this particular sin. He knows that if he can lead them into despair and get them to give up on the hope for healing, he will be able to dismantle their spiritual life.
Patience, endurance, the willingness to bear affliction without making concessions to the thoughts that afflict us – this is the path forward. Paired with clinging to the grace of God and the strength that comes through the holy sacraments, the disordered attachments begin to diminish. The fathers eventually discovered, as we have already seen, that it is important to avoid excess. If we are ruthless with ourselves, we can we can weaken ourselves not only physically, but also in terms of our resolve. Quite simply a person can grow so tired that they want to give up.
We must always keep before our eyes, then, the heavenly bridegroom and the understanding that we wage the spiritual warfare, not in isolation, but surrounded by all the angels in the Saints. And even if we are to fall every single day, St. John Climacus tells us, and yet turn to God in repentance our guardian angel looks upon us with joy.
May God give us all not only the resolve to remain in the battle but an invincible hope in his grace and mercy.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:14:38 Cindy Moran: I studied 3 years with Dr Muto & Fr, Adrian 00:15:21 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 181, # 4 00:15:28 Anna Lalonde: I'm interested in Spiritual Formation if you can share connections at some point. 00:15:39 Cindy Moran: ok! 00:32:08 santiagobua: We can start recieving after we bend the knee to the Lord, not before 00:32:55 Anna Lalonde: Humility and Holy Eucharist brings upon Chastity. Is that right? 00:33:54 Anthony: It would be helpful for a person in a moment of any moral suffering to distinguish actual sin from "spiritual warfare." 00:34:21 Anna Lalonde: Yes 00:58:42 Anthony: The image for me is a starfish opening a clam. The clam tries as hard as it can to stay shut. The starfish wants to enter, and (I'm mixing metaphors), stick a knife in between the shells to cut off the victim from God and the land of the living. That, for me, is the pure fear, of being cut off from hope and God. 01:08:53 Forrest Cavalier: This story #8 shows a wisdom in using the natural reactions of the physical body to abhor the sin for how deadly it is. It looks like good Pavlovian psychology. 01:11:55 Sheila: Salvation Army 01:14:09 Una: Is that Jack Sparks? 01:14:45 Una: Victory in the Unseen Warfare (red cover) 01:15:03 Una: Also Virtue in the Unseen Warfare (green cover) 01:15:09 Una: Fr. Jack Sparks 01:15:18 Rod Castillo: I’ve read it but in Spanish 01:16:40 Lilly: Thank you Father 01:17:19 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father! 01:17:23 Cameron Jackson: Thank you Father! 01:17:25 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you ☺️ 01:17:28 Dave Warner | AL: Thank you Father! 01:17:28 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father! 01:17:28 Serene Lai: THank you Father! 01:17:37 Janine: Thank you Father! 01:17:51 Aric Bukiri: Thank you Father!
Having completed the 30th Step of the Ladder of Divine Ascent, we are blessed to receive from the hand of St. John one additional bit of writing – “To the Shepherd“. It is here that John writes to the Abbot of the neighboring monastery who first requested that John produce for his monastery a treatise on the spiritual life. He turns his attention now to this shepherd of souls – he who is responsible for the care of those entrusted to him. For the Abbot, it would be the monks of his monastery, and for those within the church, it would be the spiritual father. One might also say that the words written here would apply to all of those who offer spiritual care to others, including and especially mothers and fathers.
John begins by telling us that the shepherd is he who seeks out to set aright the lost sheep. He does this not primarily through words, but by means of guilelessness, zeal and prayer; that is, by example. The shepherd above all must be a model of virtue and one who instructs out of experience not from what he has read.
He must also be a pilot. One who is a skilled helmsman, guiding his ship, not only through the billows of a storm, but raising it up out of the abyss itself, as if raising a ship that has sunk or smashed against the rocks. Again, one who has the capacity to do this is a person who has persevered through the experience of fear and hopelessness, one who knows where the dangers lie, the signs of a storm, and where one will crash upon the reef. He must be a genuine teacher, one upon whose heart God has etched the truth. He should not be one who needs other books, but rather he should be one who speaks from the heart and speaks of his own distinctive and unique trials. He must understand then that he must teach from on high. For lowly instructions cannot possibly heal lowly beings. We are healed by grace and through divine wisdom.
In the role of a shepherd, he must not be afraid to reprimand those sheep who fall behind because of slothfulness or gluttony. To be separated from the flock, to cut oneself off from communion with God and with others who seek to breathe the same air, is to place oneself in jeopardy. The shepherd must forever keep his gaze directed heavenward, especially when the sheep are inclined to keep their heads turned towards the earth and the things of this world. It is then that they become easy prey for the wolves and so like John the Baptist he must forever be calling them to repentance. His mind must be like that of a dog; senses heightened and alert to the approach of any danger warning those in his charge.
As a true physician of souls, he must not only have the capacity to diagnose the malady, but the instruments necessary to heal the wounds of others. He must understand the seriousness of the ailment and the right kind of remedy in order that he does not make things worse or fail to apply what is needed to bring an individual back to the fullness of health. He cannot be squeamish or hesitant in offering the diagnosis or applying the remedy. For he knows that he must give answer to the Master for the care he has given.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:09:32 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 249, # 1 00:31:03 Jeffrey Fitzgerald: On that note, Father, about the disconnect with the Fatjers, Ive discovered that even the simplest mention of the Eastern Fathers—in my spiritual direction or other Catholic contexts—people in general look at me like I’m speaking gibberish. In my own parish, it’s all a matter of “Vatican 2 says…”, followed by agreement or disagreement depending on their own spiritual world view. I know you and many commentators have noted that this would happen, but it’s still startling. 00:33:34 Kate : To tag onto to Jeffrey’s point, I was warned to stay away from the Fathers. I was warned that hesychasm is “dangerous.” 00:34:11 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "To tag onto to Jeffr..." with 😮 00:35:42 Bob Cihak, AZ: Yes, words in books can be wonderful. BUT, words are symbols of experience, as said by philosopher Eric Voegelin. Many of the writings we've read reflect the latter, i.e., experience leads; words try to articulate the experience for others. 00:35:50 Myles Davidson: On a positive note, I listened to a Bishop Barron video he did on the Holy Hour and he was giving different examples of what one may do in a Holy Hour. As an example he outlined what he had done in his Holy Hour that morning and he had prayed the Jesus Prayer for half of it. He said he loved it and did it regularly. Great to such a high profile Roman Catholic bishop promoting the Jesus Prayer like this! 00:36:55 Art: Let us start up Desert Fathers Societies in churches everywhere to teach these very baseline concepts, practices, and readings. 00:40:16 Anthony: Encounter. In War & Peace, an old man advises to read the Bible, even in the unfamiliar slavonic language, and over time will come comprehension and understanding. That's like the spiritual life. And, it's kind of true for me when I read New Testament in Italian. Slowly the meaning comes. 00:40:28 Anthony: Reacted to Let us start up Dese... with "👍" 00:45:06 Gregory Chura: Learning in a different language... Attending Mass in Spanish made me listen to what I was praying. Yes! Slow down. 00:45:38 Anna Lalonde: I'm so grateful you're training us in desert Father's. My children ask almost every night if you're on. 😂 00:57:30 Bob Cihak, AZ: Faith DOES heal!! 01:09:09 Anthony: Maybe our catechizing should include this: repent immediately, be confident God forgives, do the opposite of the bad, and when you see a priest, if the matter was grave, ask for Confession. 01:10:03 Anna Lalonde: Minimal weekly Repentance has worked awesome for us! 01:11:49 Kate : I have to say that I am just amazed. At the risk of oversimplifying, what we are talking about is love. The Love of Christ. There is a saying that time heals all wounds…but really, it is the Love of Christ that heals. Honestly, this has been one of the biggest revelations to me since discovering the Fathers…that the Love of Christ heals! And the spiritual father is an instrument of this Love. 01:12:26 Anthony: Reacted to I have to say that I... with "❤️" 01:15:51 Rebecca Thérèse: thank you🙂 01:15:55 Jeff O.: Thank you! Happy Thanksgiving to you all! 01:16:10 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Reacted to "Thank you! Happy Tha..." with 👍 01:16:11 Laura: Happy Thanksgiving 🥧 01:16:18 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father! 01:16:26 Aric Bukiri: Thank you Father!
Both in the stories that we are told from the lives of the fathers and from the particular teachings that they offer their spiritual sons, we begin to get into the nitty-gritty of the struggle with the passion of lust and fornication. Again what we are presented with is the fierceness of the battle. Part of the reason for this is that the soul has implanted in it by nature a proclivity towards certain pleasures. Saint Anthony the great tells us that it does not act, however, without the heart so desiring. Desire as we’ve so often discussed is essential in the spiritual life. We have a keen sense of our lack and incompleteness outside of God. In this sense, all of our desires as human beings are reflection of our great desire for God and for what He alone can satisfy.
This proclivity towards certain pleasures can begin to take hold of the soul when we are over-attentive to nourishing our bodies with food and drink. In our tendency towards excess our hearts can be taken over by the desire for fleshly pleasure.
When we find ourselves repeatedly seeking out pleasures as an end in themselves then we become vulnerable to the provocation of the demons due to their envy. They can try to stir up the fleshly desires in order to distract us from the things of God and the remembrance of God.
It is so important for us who struggle in the spiritual life to know well the difference between these sources of our proclivity toward sensuality. We cannot allow ourselves to be ignorant of their causes and the many ways that they manifest themselves. We must learn how to confront our temptations as well as to embrace the remedies that the fathers put before us.
It is important for us to understand that much of the spiritual battle plays itself out on a psychological level and the means of warfare begins with the thoughts. When we lack watchfulness and allow ourselves to daydream and entertain every kind of thought and image, we find that our memory and our imagination become the holding place of so many things that come back to afflict us in the spiritual battle.
Therefore, we will discover in the coming months that such a spiritual battle is only won through the grace of God and constant of prayer. The spiritual life is not about endurance but rather humility. We engage in the ascetical life because we know our poverty. We must exercise our faith to the fullest extent in order that God’s grace might bear the greatest fruit possible within our hearts.
--- Text of chat during the group: 00:36:02 Kate : I recently read a quote, “The avaricious soul is one for whom God is not enough.” It made me wonder if this could be applied to any of the passions…gluttony, lust, etc. 00:41:06 Nypaver Clan: Film cameras = analog photography 00:41:12 Una: The lust of the eyes = images 00:41:46 sharonfisher: I think so true, and ‘middle’ class needs to best of these things to feel like they’re keeping up. It shouldn’t be so. It makes it hard for a family to afford life. 00:42:18 sharonfisher: Reacted to "The lust of the eyes..." with ❤️ 00:43:20 Anna Lalonde: Blue light and other things are dangerous in the neurology and psychology of children. It damages their brains. 00:43:35 sharonfisher: Replying to "I think so true, and..." Thanks for your corrections! 00:48:18 Anthony: I think the shock of any vile thought (lust, avarice, blasphemy) that spontaneously arise in the mind causes grief. 00:49:26 Anthony: In the Philokalia I appreciate a father emphasizing Deliberation in something being a free act of will. 00:52:38 Una: I don't understand what these blasphemous thoughts are 01:03:39 Rebecca Thérèse: When I worked in mental health I found that often when women had been abused from a young age, they often didn't understand that they had the right to say no. People who are used to having no control over their bodies find it almost impossible to set appropriate boundaries even simply relating to their own desires. It's easy to be judgemental of people's relationships if we don't understand what's underlying the decisions that they make. 01:03:50 Myles Davidson: UFC 01:03:50 Francisco Ingham: mma 01:04:14 Una: Gladiator movies! 01:04:35 Wayne: Reacted to "When I worked in men..." with 👍 01:06:00 Anthony: I STILL love baseball games on AM radio. :) 01:11:41 Anthony: Another thing that caused shock and grief is forgetting we have the sneaky bodies enemies who attack psychologically, not like people or beasts. 01:12:58 Una: Reacted to "When I worked in m..." with 👍 01:15:18 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You Father Blessing 01:15:38 Lisa: Reacted to "Thank You Father Ble..." with 👍 01:16:45 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father! 01:16:48 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:17:01 Aric Bukiri: Thank you Father! 01:17:22 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father 01:17:24 Francisco Ingham: This is wonderful Father, thank you for this place of spiritual rest
As we come to the end of the Ladder of Divine Ascent St. John unfolds for us the heights to which we are drawn – the theological virtues of Faith, Hope and Love. Hope, often the most neglected of virtues, is the annulment of despair. It allows us to hold on to the promise of Christ to be with us always. Even when faith seems to fail us and all grows dark because of the cross that we carry, our hope in the Lord allows us to be consoled by his mercy and to be drawn forward. It protects us from despondency and doubt.
Love when unimpeded allows us to see as God sees; to see the signs of the times and how things will unfold even when all seems chaotic. This divine love yields miracles; the supernatural healing and perfecting the natural. Through it we come to see the things of the kingdom with clarity. This clarity creates a fire within the heart; an urgent longing and thirst for the Lord that only he can quench. It is our movement into eternity. It reveals to us that the kingdom is now, heaven is now, eternity is now! We come to see that this love is not distant but that the kingdom dwells within.
St. John closes the step by calling out to Love Himself to satisfy his desire, to show him the path of the ascent that is most direct. For even though he had received this wisdom from others, St. John understands that it is only Love himself who can guide us. It is the experience of this love alone that moves us from words to reality.
Finally, St. John exhorts us along with all those who read his book to ascend eagerly and to be resolved in their hearts to strive for the Lord above all things. He is our life, our salvation, our love!
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00:01:21 Bob Cihak, AZ: My microphone isn’t working again but this is probably for the better, because I have a strong head cold with the virus also giving my voice into a gravelly inflection. Doreen Stacy, our artist friend’s funeral was yesterday. Preparations conflicted with our Monday meeting; I know I’m already excused but wanted to ask for prayers. Doreen only had 3 children but one of her daughters had 11. Who would have guessed that an English Professor could splendidly support a family that size? 00:08:21 Lori Hatala: https://gmail.us8.list-manage.com/track/click?u=c38acab568d650f7ef65f39df&id=3f6ad96818&e=b6af48f1a0 00:12:25 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: What is the title of the St. Isaac book? 00:12:44 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 179, # I 00:14:52 Bob Cihak, AZ: Oops. Wrong book. Actually p.246, # 30 P. 179, # I 00:15:15 David: Sr. Barbara it is ISBN 978-0-943405-16-2 Holy Transfiguration Monastery my copy is 2011 00:26:39 Rebecca Thérèse: In what specifically are we supposed to hope? And what does lack of hope look like? 00:27:16 Lilly (Toronto, CA): “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.” ...It's hard to surrender our weakness or sufferings, but it's in those darkest times that a simple Psalm will be enough to help us persevere 00:30:58 Myles Davidson: Replying to "What is the title of..." The Ascetical Homilies of St. Isaac the Syrian 00:32:31 Myles Davidson: Replying to "What is the title of..." https://htmp.org/St-Isaac-Ascetical-Homilies/overview.html 00:58:14 Maureen Cunningham: Hound oh heaven 00:58:41 Joseph: “Love is the progress of eternity” echoes St. Gregory of Nyssa’s notion of epektasis, the eternal ‘stretching and straining’ of the soul toward God. Each step toward God is both a fulfillment and a new beginning. Our mystical ascent never truly comes to an end, the cup is never entirely full, our love reaches out to God for eternity. 00:59:54 Lilly (Toronto, CA): Who's the author of Flying over the abyss? 01:00:28 Dave Warner | AL: Flying over the Abyss: https://essexmonastery.com/bookshop/flying-over-the-abyss 01:01:26 Lilly (Toronto, CA): Thank you 01:01:41 Dave Warner | AL: Replying to "Who's the author of ..." Archmandrite Zacharias Zacharou 01:02:18 Dave Warner | AL: Reacted to "Thank you" with 👍 01:03:20 David: I had an aunt who everyone loved. Children who were very bad she used to say "how peppy". She always told me - look till you see a glimmer of Christ and with patience you will see even the slightest light in some aspect. I remember this often and it seems like once you know what they have gone through or lacked in their experience there always is some of the divine in almost everyone. Just that thought helps me with trying to find something in the most difficult people I have encountered. 01:06:55 David: So your uncle thought you were peppy? 01:12:01 Lori Hatala: https://gmail.us8.list-manage.com/track/click?u=c38acab568d650f7ef65f39df&id=3f6ad96818&e=b6af48f1a0 01:12:32 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You and all are always a blessing. 01:13:21 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father! 01:13:22 Cindy Moran: These sessions have taught me so much! Thank you! 01:13:23 David: Thank you Father may God bless you and your mother! 01:13:24 Bob Cihak, AZ: Thank you, Father. 01:13:31 Joseph: Thank you, Father 01:13:36 Art: Thank you Father! 01:13:38 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
Tonight once again we are immersed in the struggle for purity of heart and the avoidance of its opposite in action, fornication. We are presented, of course, with heroic examples of those who embodied this virtue. Yet the most powerful thing that stands out both in the examples and the writings of the fathers is their understanding of Eros being conquered by Divine Eros; that is, our attachment to the things of this world and are very selves overcome by a greater love - the love of God for us.
When we begin to see and taste this love within our day-to-day life, and when we experience a greater measure of freedom through the ascetic life, that Divine love begins to grow within us and we find ourselves running with a swiftness aided by the grace of God.
Love is always the more powerful motivator and there is nothing more powerful than to experience the love of the one who created us in His own image and likeness. He alone can satisfy the deepest longings of the human heart. Once we begin to let go of the illusion that this world places before us - the illusion that it can provide for all of us are pleasures; and once the grace of God begins also to purify the memory, we begin to experience the invincible joy, peace, and humility of the kingdom.
As long as we are in this world, we all always find ourselves embattled. Therefore, the fathers tell us to cry out like David in the psalms: “Deliver me, O my joy, from them that have compassed me about.“ At that moment, we will always find ourselves in the hands of the living God.
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00:13:28 Rebecca Thérèse: Happy Birthday Joshua 00:21:38 Anthony: Sounds like St Augustine in City of God regarding virgins who jumped off buildings for fear of rape by Vandals. 00:22:33 Anthony: Maria goretti 00:32:00 Myles Davidson: Committing oneself to an Adoration time outside of normal sleep time can be a great way to get used to combatting the need to sleep. 00:45:12 Wayne: Its interesting that the protestant tradition don't have the crucified Christ on the cross. There is focus on the resurrection but forget about Good Friday. 00:55:26 Forrest Cavalier: Some terms I have come across to describe the non-sacrificial, non-repentance approach to Christianity are "Moralistic therapeutic deism" and "cheap grace" 00:59:04 Rebecca Thérèse: If John Lennon's "Imagine" came true that would be world communism. 01:07:45 Anthony: Also, iconographers and musicians and poets who give us a vision to hope for. Something that reaches us outside of reason for an irrational world. 01:14:29 Anna Lalonde: I do vigils, it's grown through desert Father's training me. 01:14:40 Adam Paige: Reacted to "I do vigils, it's gr..." with 👍 01:14:48 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "I do vigils, it's gr..." with 👍 01:15:00 Erick Chastain: Reacted to I do vigils, it's gr... with "👍" 01:16:11 Myles Davidson: I’ve taken to sometimes when I wake in the middle of the night, getting up for an hour of praying the Jesus Prayer, then going back to sleep. The stillness of the night and the mind make it very special 01:16:36 Wayne: Reacted to "I’ve taken to someti..." with 👍 01:16:46 Lee Graham: Reacted to "I’ve taken to someti…" with 👍 01:17:24 Adam Paige: Reacted to "I’ve taken to someti..." with 👍 01:18:45 Anna Lalonde: I'm a spiritual director of Latin and East and a Catholic Coach. 01:20:48 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You to Father and all who are here 01:20:51 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father! 01:20:56 Santiago Búa: Thank you Father 01:20:56 Macarena Olsen: Thank you! 01:20:57 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:21:13 Jacqulyn: Reacted to "Thank You to Father ..." with ❤️ 01:21:21 Erick Chastain: Thank you!! 01:21:48 Francisco Ingham: Thank you Father!!
What do we live for? Or rather, better stated, Who do we live for? As we come to the end of the Ladder of Divine Ascent, St. John speaks to us about the nature of Divine Love that is our destiny and dignity in Christ. We pursue the spiritual life for no abstract reason - not for moral perfection - not to satisfy a sense of religious duty. Nor are we driven by fear or anxiety as has sadly so often been the case.
It has always been Love that beckons us forward, that gradually heals the wounds of our sin or the traumas that we have borne. Anything that obstructs our vision of love and the mercy, God desires to overcome. God has created us for himself, made us in his own image and likeness precisely that we might share in the fullness of his life. The nature of love is curative not punitive.
St. John begins by speaking of those who keep in their imagination the face of the beloved and embrace it tenderly. This love often is so strong that it strips them even of the need for sleep or for food. The one who yearns for God says: “My soul thirsts for God, the mighty, the living God. The grace of this reality transforms nature to the point that even their countenance changes and is filled with the joy and the peace of the kingdom.
Furthermore, the pure of heart, the one who loves without impediment, is the truth theologian and so grasp the very nature of the most holy trinity. Their heart transformed by love shows itself in their love of neighbor, their intolerance for slander or anything that might diminish the other.
St. John also tells us that the power of love is in hope because by it we await the reward of love. Even when we cannot see, when we find ourselves wrapped in the darkness of the cross that we carry, it is in hope that we find rest and the reassurance of God‘s love for us .
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00:14:33 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 245, # 16 00:27:24 Jeff O.: Seems like Psalm 1, Jeremiah 17, the river of life flowing in and through us producing within us fruit no matter what 00:30:04 Anna Lalonde: Is that the fear of reverence and awe of God? 00:31:17 Cindy Moran: I remember in a worldly being a love sick teenager and could care less about eating 00:32:30 David: Are there different levels of fear? I remember when I was a child my sister and I used to say the worst punishment was seeing disappointment from our mother and father not any correction. I sometimes feel more like this than trying to reconcile a loving God who has done so much and fire and brimstrone. 00:34:48 Myles Davidson: I love St. Isaacs view of hell as the love of God that is painful to those who have rejected Him 00:43:17 David: I love the mass no matter what but I often find homilies downloaded from sites which feel detached, not from the heart. I find the priest who speak of personal experience or their struggles capture the parish more. It seems there are administrators and holy men but they are often not in balance. 00:47:57 Jeff O.: St. Maximos’s “Questions 17-19” are great examples of examining the inner meaning of Scripture’s ‘enigmas’ with the fear of God (as he says). A higher reading, deeper reading - a mystical engagement with the Spirit that brings out the beautiful truths. He works out Exodus 4 with Moses and the angel threatening death into a beautiful way of describing the spiritual journey 00:48:54 Rebecca Therese: I heard someone say once that hell is a mercy for those who feel tortured by the vision of God. 00:50:19 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "I heard someone say ..." with 🙏🏼 00:53:26 Francisco Ingham: We need less news and more nous 00:53:37 David: Reacted to "We need less news an..." with 👍 00:53:45 Bob Cihak, AZ: Reacted to "We need less news an..." with 👍 00:54:01 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "We need less news an..." with 😂 01:02:20 Anna Lalonde: I call that domestic monastic as we do 01:12:15 Nick Bodmer: Wow, that's amazing, Fr. ! 01:12:38 Serene Lai: How can we increase our hope? 01:14:49 Nypaver Clan: They instantly become little saints! 01:16:58 Myles Davidson: Fr’s Substack: https://substack.com/@frcharbelabernethy 01:17:42 Anna Lalonde: Prayers for my healing to Charbel please. 01:17:42 Art: Reacted to "Fr’s Substack: https..." with 👍 01:18:27 Rebecca Therese: Thank you🙂 01:18:33 David: Thank you father! May God bless you!🙏 01:18:34 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father! 01:18:34 Jeff O.: Thank you!! Great to be with you all! 01:18:44 Nick Bodmer: Reacted to Prayers for my heali... with "🙏" 01:18:52 Nick Bodmer: Thank you! 01:19:01 Anna Lalonde: Reacted to Prayers for my heali... with "🙏"
Why is it that we engage in the ascetic life and the spiritual life as a whole? How is it that we come to understand the extreme practices of the desert fathers as they entered into the struggle with the passions? Seemingly they were willing to do almost anything to overcome temptation and to suffer extreme disciplines, punishing the body, until the passions were overcome.
Again, we must understand that the desert was a laboratory. The fathers were driven there by their desire to live for God and to live for Him completely. Of course, they entered into these exercises with an imperfect understanding. Yet, in reading the Evergetinos we are blessed to see the development of their understanding and practice; how it becomes more measured and more focused upon God and the grace he provides.
Beyond this, however, they were engaging in this way of life not simply in the pursuit of certain principles. Nor were they seeking to overcome their natural flaws and defects. They understood the struggle was also with demonic provocation. Therefore, they were not simply trying to foster good habits or to acquire a taste for that which was more virtuous. They understood that the spiritual life involved a bloody warfare against evil. The shadow of the Cross always falls over our struggles and stands as a reminder of the costs of sin. To overcome sin and its consequence, Christ sweat blood in the garden of Gethsemane and was obedient unto death on the cross. The spiritual life is formed and shaped by the Paschal Mystery. It involves always a dying to self and rising to new life in Christ. To strip it of this understanding is to make our spiritual life and practices impotent. We are to be conformed to Christ in every way. We preached Jesus Christ and him crucified not only in words, but in our day-to-day struggle against sin and the passions.
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00:13:41 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 172, # C 00:22:42 Myles Davidson: What’s the difference between an oath and say, a general intention to do something? 00:24:43 Kate : What about resolutions that we make for a penitential time, such as Lenten resolutions or Advent resolutions? Is this a good practice according to the Fathers? 00:26:58 Forrest Cavalier: And all of these rely on God's grace for success. not our will alone. 00:37:38 Erick Chastain: Why does fat mean there are increased passions? Are there other foods like that? 00:38:25 Myles Davidson: Today is the beginning of St Martins Lent so to finish this now has been good timing 00:40:39 Erick Chastain: Why does fat mean there are increased passions? Are there other foods like that? 00:42:05 Myles Davidson: I’ve been eating less meat meals and find a definite increase in nepsis and general ability to concentrate in my prayer 00:43:18 Wayne: I think you you eat to much surgar etc you get highs and low from it.. 00:44:33 Sheila: It's a true challenge to avoid all the desserts because it seems these days people start Christmas festivities as soon as Thanksgiving ends, or in the case of many around me at school...now. 00:44:55 Sheila: Secular Christmas is all around. 00:47:16 Kate : And there are so many different diets now that encourage us to fixate on certain types of foods…keto, carnivore, longevity diets, etc. etc. There might be some health benefits to them, but they can become intense distractions. 00:48:22 Anna Lalonde: Homeschooling... Everything then is centered in faith. 00:49:50 Anna Lalonde: There's so many resources and online live classes and tutoring we have less issues as homeschooling. 00:50:01 Anna Lalonde: Lol 01:01:14 Myles Davidson: Better to engage in the battle imperfectly than to not engage in it at all 01:18:21 Anna Lalonde: Yes that's what I do. Go to Jesus Prayer 01:19:12 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father! 01:19:16 Rebecca Thérèse: thank you🙂
What does it mean to be drawn into the mystery of Divine Love? Even as beautifully as John writes, it is difficult to wrap our minds around the experience of the living God; the experience of a love that is free of every impediment and passion, a love that makes us sons and daughters of God and so shapes are identity in such a way that it is unshakable.
What is it that can overcome such a love? Our identity is often shaped by anxieties and fears, the unexpected and unknown, and our insecurities. Yet, as we are immersed in the love of God, all fear dissipates and is overtaken by an urgent longing for God and the thirst for his love.
We often resist opening ourselves up and becoming vulnerable to this love. One famous author wrote, “humankind can only bear so much reality.“ Yet the love of God, the more that it is experienced, allows us to run toward that reality rather than avoid it . It reveals to us that even our weaknesses, the things that we perhaps hate about ourselves or the wounds that we bear, draw us toward him. Love reveals to us that we experience nothing in isolation. Christ is always present to us and within us. This being so allows us to offer Him all that we are without shame.
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00:06:36 Una: Byzantine Carmelite nuns https://www.byzantinediscalcedcarmelites.com/index.html 00:06:55 Una: In Sugarloaf, Pennsylvania 00:08:46 Bob Cihak, AZ: The author was one of the lecturers at Acton University when I attended over 10 years ago. "The Glory that is Pittsburgh" at https://www.theepochtimes.com/opinion/the-glory-that-is-pittsburgh-5753572 00:12:33 Una: A line from that article that has me ROFL 00:12:35 Una: Pittsburgh is a town that makes me want to rhapsodize like a follower of Ayn Rand. 00:14:05 carol_000: Does this Zoom start a bit before 5:30 E Time ? 00:14:28 Una: Just chat before 5:30 00:15:10 carol_000: Una ..Thanks 00:16:00 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Is it the same material as Father posts on FB? 00:16:01 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 244, #9 00:19:08 Daniel Allen: What page are we on again? Sorry I missed it. 00:19:16 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 244, #9 00:19:21 Daniel Allen: Thank you 00:46:02 Anthony: Part of the issue is how we receive the Gospel and Apocalypse....these are written with fearful language. 00:48:36 susan: some of the teaching seems so hard to do or embrace and seems like climbing Mt Everest lol so I have decided to become a micro ascetic offer the smallest, micro offerings tiny tiny acts 00:50:21 Anthony: Should peter have been confident of forgiveness , even before the Lord forgave him? 00:51:12 David: Isn't there a process of letting go of things that leads us from obedience and caring to devotion. It seems love itself has stages and perhaps devotion is a joy in itself. But without letting go we lack faith and trust in the beloved. 01:04:11 David: My grandfather one time had me write down everything I was worried about for weeks. He kept it and showed it to me a year later and I realized how much time I wasted on that. While it took me years to understand it did help me move from belief to faith. 01:04:29 Daniel Allen: How do you give God “those things” in a concrete way? For instance how do you give God your anxiety in a concrete way, because sometimes offering it in prayer seems somewhat abstract. 01:05:19 Wayne: Reacted to "My grandfather one t..." with 👍 01:08:28 David: A beautiful tradition I saw in Potes, Spain was at collection people would give both money but what concerned them or what sins they were struggling with written on small pieces of paper to bring to the altar. I wonder which this is just a small town and (small t tradition) rather than more common. Just struck me as beautiful and I still think of that when I put something in the collection basket. 01:09:07 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Some find writing helpful - a note or letter to the Lord in one's journal. Or an expression in art... 01:09:14 Anna Lalonde: More frequent mystery of Repentance and gratitude are so important for this! Seen it with grief in my children and I. 01:14:41 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father! 01:14:48 Rachel: Thank you 01:14:49 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:14:50 David: Thank you father. May God bless you! 01:15:33 Jeff O.: Thank you so much!
Tonight we read the final sections on the fathers’ reflection on the practice of fasting. Once again the focus is on decorum; how does one eat in the presence of others while not giving himself over to pride. It is ever so easy to think oneself the great ascetic and hold oneself above others within the community. Ego can even distort well-practiced discipline into something that sets oneself apart from others rather than leads one to show greater desire for God, virtue and mercy towards others.
All of our practices, the fathers teach us, must be guided by spirit of gratitude. We give thanks for the food that we receive and that nourishes us and we avoid criticizing others for how much they eat. Self discipline is not a weapon to be wielded by the ego for its own pleasure. Our tendency is to devour our brothers’ flesh by our criticism, and as the psalmist tells us to “eat up God’s people as if eating our bread.”
A humble attitude must be fostered, and we must not be ill-mannered. For example, a senior monk within a monastery must not demand honor or reverence or put on airs before his juniors. He must not draw attention to Himself in any way that would diminish charity among the brothers. What is the value of toiling all day only to undermine oneself to satisfy petty pride?
Again, the fathers want us to understand that fasting and all of our disciplines are about love. We must not diminish the practice by becoming legalistic or moralistic in our view. Therefore, we are taught not to takes oaths about avoiding certain foods. In doing so we set aside the freedom that is ours. No food is reprehensible. We are merely to eat with restraint and gratitude. But if we take an oath and then break it by eating the particular food we fall into perjury. As Christ tells us, no food is unclean; rather it is what comes out of the heart that makes a person unclean or sinful.
A rather lengthy discussion ensued in regards to avoiding a kind of ghetto mentality in our Christian practice; setting ourselves apart from others rather than serving them in the love of Christ. It is a narrow line that we walk and demands that we understand that all is grace. Christ has taken on our poverty and emptied himself in order that we might know the fullness of life and love. Our exercise of the faith, that is, our asceticism, must be relational; it must be directed toward Christ and enable us to love as He loves. Asceticism is not an end in itself, nor do we live out our Christianity in isolation. We turn to Christ, we die to sin and self, in order to be raised to life in him. To avoid the kind of isolationism that we would see in the scribes and Pharisees, we must become Christ.
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00:09:37 Cindy Moran: The joys of home ownership 😜 00:11:29 Una: I'm a happy renter 00:12:37 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 168, #F 00:35:02 Erick Chastain: Once you pop you can't stop- pringles 00:35:21 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "Once you pop you can..." with 😮 00:36:46 Adam Paige: Two recommendations on fasting and feasting.. Benedictine monk Adalbert de Vogue's book To Love Fasting is back in print in English (https://a.co/d/3hSwoIX), and I recently watched the film Babette's Feast for the first time - very moving ! 00:38:09 Myles Davidson: A free PDF of To Love Fasting is available here: https://archive.org/details/tolovefasting 00:40:39 Adam Paige: Reacted to "A free PDF of To Lov..." with ❤️🔥 00:46:33 Francisco Ingham: There’s a great Chesterton quote related to this point 00:46:43 Francisco Ingham: “Let us put a complex entrée into a simple old gentleman; let us not put a simple entrée into a complex old gentleman. So long as human society will leave my spiritual inside alone, I will allow it, with a comparative submission, to work its wild will with my physical interior. I will submit to cigars. I will meekly embrace a bottle of Burgundy. I will humble myself to a hansom cab. If only by this means I may preserve to myself the virginity of the spirit, which enjoys with astonishment and fear.” 00:54:11 Adam Paige: Reacted to "“Let us put a comple..." with 🍷 00:55:51 Ambrose Little: Can you comment on the seeming contradiction between Christ’s example of eating and drinking with sinners (and generally chastising Pharisees for being puritanical), and the counsel to avoid such and only surround oneself with those we deem holy and who think like we do. 01:05:17 Ambrose Little: It seems like there is real danger (that has actually been realized) in thinking and acting as if the church is only for the already perfect. But as Pope Francis has emphasized, the church is supposed to be a hospital for sinners. I just think the advice to avoid sinners and those who are not seeking God as we imagine we are can easily be internalized as exclusivity, isolationism, and judgmentalism. It requires humility as a primary principle, to realize we are sinners, too. 01:14:29 Ambrose Little: Amen. Thank you! 01:14:48 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:14:54 santiagobua: Thank you ! 01:15:36 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father! 01:15:47 Francisco Ingham: Thank you Father 01:15:52 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father 01:15:59 Erick Chastain: Thank you father! 01:16:05 Una: Thank you 01:16:08 santiagobua: Where can we find the Substack? 01:16:10 SYu’s iPhone: Thank you, Father. 01:16:43 ANDREW ADAMS: Replying to "Where can we find th..." https://substack.com/@frcharbelabernethy 01:16:46 Myles Davidson: https://substack.com/@frcharbelabernethy 01:16:50 Adam Paige: Reacted to "https://substack.com..." with 👍 01:17:10 santiagobua: Reacted to "https://substack.com..." with 👍 01:17:17 Ambrose Little: Reacted to "https://substack.com…" with 👍 01:17:18 Erick Chastain: Just woke up earlier
We are brought to the denouement of the Ladder in these final steps on Dispassion and the “Trinity of Virtues” - Faith, Hope and Love. The words of St. John ring forth as if from the mouth of a poet. It is only one who has experience of and has seen the beauty of Divine love who can then speak of the urgent longing that begins to take over the soul when it no longer is held back by the weight of sin or one’s ego.
The dispassionate man, St. John tells us, no longer lives himself, but Christ lives in him. He has eyes only for the beloved and living in constant union with him. All becomes Grace; Christ’s virtue becomes our virtue, Christ’s strength becomes our strength, Christ’s love becomes our love.
Understanding this we must not allow anything to hold us back. Above all we should desire to enter into the bridal chamber; for this is exactly what Christ has made possible for us. Our relationship with God is often described with nuptial imagery; we are destined to become one with the most holy Trinity. What excuse could we possibly put forward for not at least seeking to break through the wall of our sin by embracing the forgiveness that is so freely offered?
St. John’s discussion of dispassion leads us to the final step of the Ladder. The theological virtues, named so because they have God as their end, become St. John’s subject matter. These three are preeminent because they endure unto eternity. The greatest of them, love, allows no respite for the soul but drives her on with a kind of blessed madness. Overcome with an urgent longing for the Beloved it takes on a greater resemblance to God in so far as this is possible. The soul becomes inebriated - so often does it seek to satisfy its thirst for divine love. Having satisfied this desire the heart expands, taking on distinctive properties where it becomes a fountain of faith, an abyss of patience and a sea of humility. What takes place then is extraordinary: love banishes every thought of evil or judgment. Only mercy, forgiveness and compassion remain.
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00:13:44 Myles Davidson: According to Wikipedia Scorcese is doing one on Moses the Black 00:14:08 Myles Davidson: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Scorsese_Presents:_The_Saints 00:18:40 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 243, #13 00:37:15 Anthony: Renzo Allegri write a book: "Padre Pio Man of Hope." Good book. 00:39:32 Anthony: And this is why legalism and scrupulousity is such a problem. They strangle wonder and longing. 00:41:29 Anthony: Franciscans are like the east 00:56:20 Anthony: Eastern Star 00:56:26 Leilani Nemeroff: Eastern Star 00:57:29 David: A book that really lead me to the fathers and from mere belief to faith was "What Difference Does Jesus Make"- Frank Sheed. Really hard to find not sure why this is not more popular. 00:59:25 carol_000: What time zone did this meeting start at 7:30 00:59:34 Nypaver Clan: EST 00:59:34 David: EST 00:59:48 carol_000: Thanks 01:00:09 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "Thanks" with 🥰 01:01:21 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: The kingdom must be preached/shared - we are way too silent about sharing our faith... 01:02:42 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Guardini has a great book on prayer.. 01:02:49 Jeff O.: Reacted to "Guardini has a great..." with 👍 01:04:42 carol_000: Calgary, Alberta Canada. Mountain Standard Time. My first time here. 01:05:07 Nypaver Clan: Meditations Before Mass - Guardini 01:05:07 Myles Davidson: Welcome 🙂 01:06:19 carol_000: Replying to "Welcome 🙂" Thanks. 01:07:33 Nypaver Clan: Replying to "Welcome 🙂" Hooray! Glad you found us! 🙏🏼 01:07:36 Jeff O.: The madness of pride as opposed to the madness of love is an interesting juxtaposition. Two very distinct and different “pictures” of madness. 01:09:10 Cindy Moran: Reacted to The madness of pride... with "👍" 01:09:48 Cindy Moran: Me, too!! 01:09:53 Nypaver Clan: Replying to "Welcome 🙂" Welcome, Canada!🇨🇦 01:10:06 carol_000: Replying to "Welcome 🙂" I've been following Fr. Charbel for a while, but now I'm wondering which branch of Orthodoxy is this? Reference to author & "Mass" ? 01:10:59 Nypaver Clan: Replying to "Welcome 🙂" Byzantine 01:11:09 carol_000: Replying to "Welcome 🙂" Thanks 01:12:54 Anna Lalonde: Thank you! My children and I are loving this. 01:13:03 Nypaver Clan: Replying to "Welcome 🙂" Ukrainian Greek 01:14:09 Jeff O.: That would be lovely! 01:14:26 carol_000: Replying to "Welcome 🙂" Thanks, I was raised Ukr. Grk Orthodox but now go to OCA church in All English. 01:14:45 Kevin & Lilly: Yes!! 01:14:52 Rachel: and icon paintng 01:15:00 Jacqulyn: Let's do it! 01:15:34 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father 01:15:35 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father! 01:15:35 Anna Lalonde: Prayers for my healing. Please especially St Charbel help me! 01:15:38 Rachel: thank you! 01:15:39 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 😊 01:15:42 Jeff O.: Thank you! Great to be with you all! 01:15:44 David: Thank you father! 01:15:46 Dave Warner (AL): Thank you Father! 01:15:54 Edmund Dyjak: Thank You GOD Bless You
We have continued to make our way through the final few hypotheses about fasting and eating in general. What is gradually coming to light is that our relationship with Christ and our identity in Him is to form and fashion every aspect of our lives. This includes what we might consider the most mundane aspects of our life or what we take for granted, such as eating and common meals.
What becomes perfectly clear in this hypothesis, however, is that there is a specific decorum that emerged in the practice of the fathers. The way that they looked at food and the way that they ate their common meals was all shaped by their greater commitment to the life of prayer and silence. The ascetical life shaped their actions and supported their pursuit of the ultimate goal. Thus eating, the quality of the food, the mannerisms at table and amount of food that other monks ate and the general behavior during meals all became important matters and subject to proper formation.
The ideal was not to form a Christian gentleman, but rather to form a heart that was watchful at all times of the day and that was very much aware of the power of our most basic appetites. We see restraint being taught; that is, slowing oneself down at meals and not being driven by the pressure of hunger or the allure of delicious food. It is Christ the Bread of Life that one is always seeking and so the way that we approach our meals should be a reflection of how we approach the Lord in the Holy Mysteries. Our mindset, our sense of gratitude, the solemnity of our attitudes and behaviors are all reflection of our understanding of the connection with the Paschal Mystery. When we think of our own formation we must have this broad scope so that we do not treat our ascetic practices as ends in themselves. All that we do must be offered to God or it is wasted.
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00:17:20 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 165, #A 00:44:06 Una: LOL about the comment about men eating. And then they throw their silverware in the trash? Obviously, I've never been in a men's monastery. But how can we who are living in the world apply these standards to everyday dinners with family? 00:46:49 Una: I'm thinking of Thanksgiving Dinner where people gobble gobble gobble and aren't focused on God at all. Last year I had a hard time getting them to listen to the Prayer of St. Francis before the meal. Very secular family. How I personally may maintain my recollection yet still be social 00:47:50 Una: I find I can "go out" of myself so easily and get lost in socializing and talking (I'm an extravert) and then have difficulty becoming recollected again 01:03:42 Una: Is it true that the early Irish monasticism came from Egypt? 01:10:13 Una: There's a new book on this subject: Monastery and High Cross: The Forgotten Eastern Roots of Irish Christianity 01:10:20 Una: by Connie Marshner 01:10:34 Una: Sophia Institute Press 01:11:49 Steve: Good story 01:11:59 Una: Connie Marshner is a Melkite Green Catholic in Virginia 01:21:26 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father! 01:21:48 Troy Amaro: Thank you Father. 01:22:30 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you, sorry I was so late, our clocks went back an hour yesterday and I forgot about the time difference 01:24:18 ANDREW ADAMS: Where does one find the substack? I’m not knowledgeable on the whole social media scene. 01:25:19 Adam Paige: Where does one find the substack? I’m not knowledgeable on the whole social media scene. https://substack.com/@frcharbelabernethy 01:25:44 ANDREW ADAMS: Replying to "Where does one find ..." Thank you! 01:27:47 Bob Cihak, AZ: .. or https://frcharbelabernethy.substack.com/ 01:28:16 Paul G.: Replying to ".. or https://frchar…" +1 01:29:21 Maureen Cunningham: Thank you 01:32:17 Maureen Cunningham: Wow
St. John understands that we are out of our depths whenever we try to capture with words what comes through experience. This is true in particular of the heights of prayer, contemplation, and with dispassion. John’s language is poetic and thus a reflection of his straining to present us with the end of the spiritual life and what the heart longs for the most.
In concluding his teachings on prayer, he warns us of certain pitfalls to avoid in order that our focus might remain upon Christ. Above all he does not want us to become discouraged by the attack of the evil one. Such a thing is to be expected. Prayer is so beautiful and transformative that the demons are going to do everything they can to disrupt it. Yet, John would have us understand that the demons are scourged by prayer and when we show fortitude they flee. Finally, he would have be confident in the practice of prayer. There is nothing that one can write in a book that is necessary when we have God himself as the Teacher of prayer. It is the Holy Spirit that searches the depths of God the guides us forward.
Dispassion is even more difficult to capture with mere words for it describes one who has made his flesh incorruptible and has subdued all the senses; keeping his soul before the face of the Lord and always straining towards him. One is not only detached from the things of this world but has a gathered an exhaustible store of virtue as a source of strength. They are driven no longer by fear, but now only love; love that cannot be understood by mere reason. The soul is drawn forward by an urgent longing that belongs only to those who are created in the image and likeness of God. Therefore, St. John sees dispassion as purity of heart; where a person has reached a level of existence where sin has no hold upon them and there is no longer even any awareness of the presence of demons. Such an individual is wholly united with God and always will be.
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00:05:24 Gregory Chura: Which step? 00:06:05 Bob Cihak, AZ: p. 240, #58 00:07:29 Myles Davidson: Can I ask what edition of The Ladder we are reading from? 00:08:08 Adam Paige: Paulist Press edition page 281 🙂 00:09:01 Adam Paige: The introduction is excellent too, although it doesn’t contain the Letter to the Shepherd at the end 00:11:21 Bob Cihak, AZ: p. 240, #58 00:15:46 Kevin & Lilly: Aren't we supposed to expose our wound (sin) in its entirety for Jesus to heal it (in the confessional)? Similar to removing the band-aid, even if it hurts us? 00:21:42 Cindy Moran: Some things you can not "unsee" 00:26:26 susan: I get attacked walking up to communion and then I feel 00:26:48 susan: like I have done something wrong 00:29:02 Anthony: I also think having undergone at least once a spiritual attack, a person anticipates it and therefore brings it to mind? 00:31:05 Christian Corulli: Love of God destroys all fear 00:56:07 Christian Corulli: This sounds like the 7th Mansion of St. Teresa, can we make that comparison? Do the Carmelites trace the same spiritual path as St. John Climacus? 01:08:10 David: Is there an element of experience or getting older in this step. My grandfather always used to say youth is a process of acquiring and drive and growing old is the challenge of learning to let go. Through suffering, experience I can see more an more elements of dispassion or not feeling as connected to what many seek in the world and am left with only what endures which is family and faith. 01:22:15 David: Saving us from ourselves 01:22:38 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You Blessing to all 01:23:06 Gregory Chura: Thank you, everyone, 01:23:06 Tracey Fredman: Reacted to "Thank You Blessing t..." with ❤️ 01:23:07 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father !!! 01:23:10 Anthony Kinyon (Αντώνιος Κινγιόν): Thank you Fr. Charbel. 01:23:10 Jeff O.: Thank you!! 01:23:10 David: Thank you father and God bless you and your mom 01:23:11 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:23:16 Cameron Jackson: Overwhelmed again. Thank you Fr. 01:24:13 Alexandra: Thank you Father. I'll pray for you
It’s important for us as we read the fathers and consider the discipline that they embraced regarding our appetites and desires that we do not demonize these realities or fall into extreme practices. At the heart of the fathers’ lives and teachings is desire; allowing the love of God and gratitude for his gifts to guide and direct their understanding of life and perception of reality.
It is true that the desert was every bit the laboratory; the fathers often pushed themselves in extreme ways in order that their appetites and their desires for satisfaction and pleasure would lose their grip upon them. They were often harsh with themselves in ways that seem abhorrent to modern sensibilities.
Yet they realized that these realities are very powerful parts of our humanity. The body, for example, through the ascetic life can be a powerful aid in our sanctification. However, if we approach our appetites in an unmeasured fashion, or in a way that is simply focused upon the self, then that which is most beautiful can be corrupted.
Thus, our own embrace of the ascetic life should be rooted in desire; our sense of lack and incompleteness outside of God. Our truest identity is established and found only in Him. Such a vision must be fostered from the earliest years of our lives. For it is not something that one can give or share with another. It comes only through experience. One comes to love the disciplines of which the father speak (fasting, prayer, vigils etc.) because they are far more than mere disciplines. They open up the path for us to experience the invincible joy and peace and freedom of the Kingdom. “Taste and see the goodness of the Lord.”
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00:15:57 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 161, G 00:16:11 Adam Paige: Reacted to "P. 161, G" with 👍 01:05:40 Bob Cihak, AZ: From Adam: Adam Paige 5:14 PM Should we avoid restaurants since they’re typically predicated on desirable food ? Or should we order a less appealing meal when we are at a restaurant ? 01:12:52 Cindy Moran: You aren't missing anything! 01:14:19 Adam Paige: Reacted to "You aren't missing a…" with 😂 01:19:42 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You Father 01:19:55 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:19:59 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father! 01:20:11 Tracey Fredman: Glad you are feeling better, Fr. Charbel! 01:20:14 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father. 01:20:21 Kevin Burke: Thank You Father! 01:20:39 Tracey Fredman: Liturgy of the Hours is one you mentioned one time. Is that a possibility for a topic? 01:20:47 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Liturgy of the Hours…" with ❤️ 01:21:01 Cameron Jackson: Thank you Father 01:21:19 Myles Davidson: Your Substack is excellent Father
As St. John draws us more deeply into his understanding of prayer and the experience of intimacy with God, he begins to emphasize the importance of maintaining purity of heart and humility. Either through negligence or through demonic provocation, we can find ourselves being driven not by the Holy Spirit toward God but rather driven by the desires of the flesh. The vulnerability of prayer, opening our minds and our hearts to God, also carries with it the need to have established watchfulness of heart. If we have not we can indiscriminately open ourselves up to certain dangers. For example, we may allow our mind to wander during prayer in such a way that we turn away from God. It can even happen that in this turning away we are move towards the enemies of God. Like Judas we can share most intimately with the Lord at the table of the holy Eucharist and then immediately be driven out by an unholy spirit into the darkness. It is those who are closest to Christ who often betray him the most.
We all take certain things for granted. This is true in our relationship with God. We can treat that relationship cheaply; enter into it with a kind of familiarity to the point that we lose sight of the preciousness of what God has made possible for us. Our attachment to the things of this world or to individuals can fill our minds and our hearts even during the time of prayer. Therefore, John wants us to have no illusions about what it is that we ask for and seek in prayer. Our greatest desire should be what leads us to God and what endures unto eternity. As Saint James tell us: “we ask, but we do not receive because we ask wrongly.” We seek only the satisfy our natural wants and desires. As it has been said, “The fool’s portion is small in his eyes.” Often we do not see the beauty of what God offers us.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:12:58 Bob Cihak, AZ: P.239, #50 00:13:44 Tracey Fredman: Reacted to "P.239, #50" with 👍 00:14:28 Dave Warner (AL): Reacted to "P.239, #50" with 👍 00:51:38 Rachel: or to satisfy ego since it is difficult to see oneself as nothing and in such need. 00:59:38 David: Someone told me once - measure your thoughts and you measure what you treasure. Treasure only what is everlasting. 01:02:14 Laura: Reacted to "Someone told me once..." with 👍🏼 01:04:59 Rebecca Thérèse: It seems to me that it's easier to catch someone in infidelity these days because of socia media and smart devices etc than it was previously. 01:11:31 Anthony: I've wondered if we get monastic life and vocations imbalanced? I read that among Syrians, there was one "monastic" community composed of subsets of vowed religious, families and singles. This makes for universality and diversity and maybe a healthier psychology for persons? 01:13:45 Rebecca Thérèse: Thomas Szasz the anti-psychiatry psychiatrist wrote a paper about how psychiatrists persuaded the Church that sex abusers were ill and could be treated and how this led to priests being "treated" and moved instead of being fired. 01:14:12 Una: Jon Hassler wrote North of Hope dealing with this situation of the priest who dealt with this issue 01:14:29 Una: Excellent novel 01:18:38 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father...great to be back in class!! 01:18:40 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂 01:18:47 David: Thank you father. Glad your feeling better! 01:18:51 Jeff O.: Thank you!! 01:19:02 Rachel: Thank you 01:19:03 Tracey Fredman: Reacted to "Thank you father. Gl..." with ❤️
It may seem surprising that the fathers spend so much time speaking about food and how we approach eating. Yet the needs of the flesh are very much a part of who we are as human beings. So how we eat and what we eat can affect what goes on internally. We can be subject to disorder or extremes in one fashion or another.
What we see in the desert fathers and mothers is a love of fasting because they saw it as the insurer and foundation of the other virtues. In other words, when one can order an appetite and a desire towards what is good and specifically as tied to our hunger for God, then we are able to do so with other aspects of our humanity and our other appetites. Eating, being one of the most basic needs can lead us in one of two directions; either it is the gateway vice that opens us up to be more vulnerable to disordered appetites, or our restriction of our diet can turn us toward God who satisfies the deepest longings of the human heart.
The fathers examine the practice of eating from multiple perspectives. They had an acute sense of the subtlety with which the mind approaches such a practice. We can be hyper-focused upon the body and its needs. We can use illness as an excuse for slothfulness or to eat beyond our needs or what health demands. Likewise, we can become overly focused upon the quality of food and only want what is pleasing to the pallet or perfectly fresh. We lose sight of the fact that what we prize so much passes into the latrine. It may satisfy the pallet but it does not give rest to the soul.
The fathers also understood that we must give ourselves over to this practice without over-analyzing its value. Our tendency to pamper the body can make us and our consciences become callous and lead us down the path to hedonism. We lose sight of the fact that this appetite is incited by everything in the culture around us that has made food an idol. It has also made it a medicine in the sense that we turned to it to find solace and comfort. In a subtle way we are being taught to avoid affliction at any cost and to question the redeeming nature of the cross.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:10:54 Nick Bodmer: I had a question about the next work for the Wednesday group. What is after the Ladder, and is there a recommend translation? 00:12:17 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 159, #B 00:12:40 Nick Bodmer: 👍 00:21:03 Bob Cihak, AZ: A good friend lost 20 pounds. His method: When I'm not hungry, I don't eat. 00:22:02 Myles Davidson: Do you have any advice for those of us who are very slim and with very little body fat but who want to increase our fasting practice? I’m finding it a real art-form and a balance that’s not easy to find. 00:25:01 Bob Cihak, AZ: Many find "Eat, Fast, Feast" a book by my friend, Jay Richards, very helpful. He looks at fasting for spiritual, fitness and dietary reasons; he says no one else had written such a book. 00:25:25 Forrest Cavalier: Hi Myles, I am low BMI myself. I discipline my fasting in order to not go below a target weight. For me 137 lbs. I do not eat breakfast. I do not eat snacks during Lent. I have to increase calories at some meals. Most of my fasting discipline is not calorie reduction, but not eating dairy or meat on Wednesday and Friday. 00:28:10 Nick Bodmer: This is why the medieval monks made beer 🤣 Maintains calories. 00:29:28 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "This is why the medi..." with 😃 00:36:23 Nikki: If someone is not lean after a decent time of fasting and self discipline with their eating, would that be an indicator they aren’t being disciplined enough to reach that deeper intimacy with the Lord? 00:39:40 Anthony: St Thomas Aquinas was so big they cut a hole in dining table fir him....so I've heard. Some people like Neapolitans can be big boned people. 00:41:58 Andrew Adams: cortisol 00:42:02 Nick Bodmer: Cortisol 00:42:51 Joseph: St. Athanasius described St. Anthony: “And they, when they saw him, wondered at the sight, for he had the same habit of body as before, and was neither fat, like a man without exercise, nor lean from fasting and striving with the demons, but he was just the same as they had known him before his retirement.” 00:46:45 Bob Cihak, AZ: Our culture now promotes paying MORE money for LESS nutritional value, counting calories as a nutritional value. 00:52:28 Anthony: The news scares about food also contribute to our derangement 01:00:20 Anthony: Bloomin onion 01:05:06 Anthony: The marketers sell us on the things that cause problems and then sell us on the "remedies".....which cause more problems. This is prophecy of Amos territory. 01:09:52 Nick Bodmer: Health is a good, but when we make it an ultimate good, and end in itself, it becomes an idol. 01:11:16 Bob Cihak, AZ: Reacted to "Health is a good, bu..." with 👍 01:11:51 Bob Cihak, AZ: . As a recovering (retired) MD, I agree with Nick. 01:13:21 Andrew Adams: Thank you, Father! 01:13:23 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
Above all St. John’s writing on prayer works to break through the myopic vision that we have of life, of prayer, and of God. Like so many of the fathers, he will hammer away at anything which prevents us from experiencing the fullness of God’s love and mercy. Thus, he both rebukes and encourages.
We began this evening with a warning about admitting fantasies into our mind and heart during prayer. The demonic provocation at such times will be to use religious ideas, visions, etc., to distract us from the beloved and the encounter with him in silence. However, John tells us, if we hold fast to this prayer we are given an invincible assurance; there is a loss of all doubt and the certainty of God’s love is all that remains. The encounter with God Himself is proof of the unprovable!
We must give great care to put on the mind of Christ. We must be merciful as our Heavenly Father is merciful. To allow ourselves even to think of justice is going to immediately pull us down. For there is no justice! What has been revealed to us is unconditional love, mercy, and compassion. To turn a harsh eye toward another is to turn our eyes away from God.
Furthermore, we must allow God in his providence to set both the time and measure of prayer. We cannot treat it as something that anything else in our life is equal to in importance. This is especially true in those blessed moments where God fills the heart with compunction and the eyes with tears that cleanse the soul. We must not break away or abandoned prayer until we see that by divine Providence both the fervor and tears have diminished. “For perhaps you will not have such a moment for the remission of your sins again in all your life.“ We must always choose the one thing necessary.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:15:36 Una: The Catholic psychologist Dr. Raymond Lloyd Richmond 00:15:53 Una: ChastitySF.com 00:31:09 Anthony: Why are Roman Catholics so fixated on justice? I've thought it's due to inheriting the legal notions of Roman imperial law and German folk law. But we're so focused on law, that being a Roman Catholic is sometimes not appealing. Thank God for persons like St Francis of Assisi. 00:33:15 Victor Haburchak: Americans are impacted by English Common Law. We’re more rigid than Italians it’s been said. 00:34:42 Anthony: I went to Italy. Naples and South. It's so different 00:34:56 Victor Haburchak: Reacted to "I went to Italy. Nap…" with 👍 00:38:00 Victor Haburchak: On the monastic rules for fasting my grandfather, a Ruthenian immigrant from Eastern Europe, said they were practically starving & yet there were constant calls to fast throughout the year while he was slaving in coal mins v 00:38:47 Victor Haburchak: Coal mines…. 00:41:16 Victor Haburchak: He was a Greek-Catholic so experienced strictness of G-C priests. 01:05:38 Anthony: So that prayer also is as quick as breath 01:16:48 Andrew Adams: Thank you, Father! 01:16:51 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:16:51 Myles Davidson: That was a great hour. Thankyou Fr ! God bless you! 01:16:53 David: Thanks Father! 01:16:55 Cindy Moran: Thank You Father!!! 01:16:57 Jeff O.: Thank you! Great to be with you all.
We continued this evening to delve more deeply into the fathers’ understanding of the practice of fasting. Once again we see that they learned from experience that it is better to eat once a day but not to the point of satiation. One must be measured and restrained in the practice, so is not to become weak and incapable of work or of fulfilling one’s prayer rule.
We also began to see that there was variance in the practices embraced by various monks, both in terms of their diet and the amount they ate. The practice was not to pamper the body but also not to destroy it. The body is necessary in the spiritual battle. Thus one must be discerning in one’s spiritual practice and patient.
We were also introduced this evening to the particular temptations that arise throughout the course of one’s spiritual life. Again, we must realize that we struggle not only with our own natural weaknesses and the weakness of our sin, but also with temptations and provocations that come to us from the Evil One. We are often tempted by what we see. We covet what appeals to the eyes and seems to promise enjoyment or satisfaction. We hear stories of the father’s catching themselves being tempted to break the rule of fasting.
What is needed is humility. Fasting is a discipline and when we fail we are to humbly acknowledge it and confess it. We must never be tempted after having fallen to hide our failure or lie about it. It is then that we are truly in the grip of the father of lies and will be further led astray by even greater deception.
Finally, we were taught that there are certain passions that we must be willing to cut out of our life completely. There are certain things that have such a hold on our hearts and enslave our wills that there must be the courage and the willingness to remove it from our lives completely. We must always be willing to choose the better part and to sacrifice all for that pearl great price.
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Text of chat during the group: 00:10:41 David Fraley: Hello everyone! Thank you! 00:11:08 David Fraley: Thank you! 00:11:29 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 154 A 00:16:00 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 154 A 00:21:40 Anthony: Yeah, I multiplied devotion. It wasn't so great for me. 00:28:34 Joseph Muir: What page are we on? 00:29:11 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 156 C 00:33:21 Anthony: That bread isn't going to rise well like french bread. It's either flatbread or pancakes. That's a basic sacrifice. 00:33:48 Vanessa: Replying to "That bread isn't goi..." no yeast. 00:38:04 Sandra Whatley: "Silence is a place where the serpent can not go. It is a place as toxic to him as his environment is to us" Father 7/23 00:39:09 Sandra Whatley: This is what Father told me in prayer 00:45:30 Nikki: The desert fathers approach fasting in different ways. How do we find out what we should do personally regarding approaching a limitation of food (choices & amount) along with heightened self-discipline, when over time the difficulties of continuing that level of intensity may have one think with all seriousness that they should start eating more/fast less? Concerned perhaps they are not eating enough and maybe their bodies showing signs of this. 00:54:26 Nikki: Thank you 00:54:46 Kevin Burke: https://archive.org/details/tolovefasting/mode/2up 00:55:19 Kevin Burke: On-line version of the Book To Love Fasting 00:58:39 Nypaver Clan: Would it have made more sense to leave it for someone else than to waste it? 01:06:48 Nypaver Clan: There’s a reason the computer is “Apple.” 01:07:18 Bob Cihak, AZ: Reacted to "There’s a reason the..." with 😯 01:07:20 Nypaver Clan: The symbol is very telling…. 01:09:41 Sheila: A large amount of tv shows out there are straight up porn but it's easy to make excuses that it's ok to watch...but let's be real...is it? Single, in a relationship or married, the toll it takes on yourself or the person you care about is so subtle..but it erodes away at real intimacy. 01:11:07 Sheila: Truth. 01:12:14 Una: I used to write Christian romances (clean romances, no sex scenes) but i gave it up because I felt it did harm to people's imaginations and spiritual life, setting up unreality. I think the Desert Fathers would have something to say about this! 01:13:10 Una: Movement toward Reality. Well said! 01:14:53 Anthony: Isaac came to my home today! 01:15:25 David Fraley: Thanks, Father! Have a great night! 01:15:26 Sandra Whatley: Thank you so very much. 01:15:36 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:15:53 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father.
What is prayer and, more importantly, what do we become by engaging in prayer? So often we take a reductive view of the realities in our life, including the reality of our relationship with God. We reduce our converse with God to a discipline or an afterthought or worse and obligation. And yet as we read the fathers, we begin to see with greater clarity that prayer involves a kind of mutual vulnerability. We stand before the Other, God, withholding nothing of ourselves from him. In this, we imitate Him who has revealed himself to us in the most vulnerable fashion. He has drawn back the veil and revealed his heart to us and the depth of his love and compassion.
Such a vision of prayer precludes are treating it in a common fashion; approaching it like we would any other interaction. However, what we are drawn into from the moment of our baptism is the very life of God, a participation in the life of the most holy Trinity. Prayer, then, becomes an expression of identity, of who we are as human beings and what we’ve become in Christ. Seen in such a manner, an unquenchable thirst should arise within the human heart to remain in prayer and prolong it. One desires to linger long with the Beloved. It is to choose the better part. So much of what we learn, and our taught leads only to the fragmentation of the self. The frenetic pace of life and the desperate pursuit to satisfy expectations that we have for ourselves or that others place upon us distorts who we really are. We are sons and daughters of God, heir to the kingdom of heaven, and the Spirit that dwells within the heart alone gives us the capacity to express the love God Himself has for us.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:14:45 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 237, #34 00:38:13 Callie Eisenbrandt: Father how do we learn something everyday in prayer in times of spiritual dryness? Sometimes it feels like its difficult to see what you are to learn until you look back on prayers from the past but how do you do that on a daily basis? 00:39:51 Wayne: late what page are we on? 00:41:07 Bob Cihak, AZ: p. 238, #38 or so. 00:41:35 Wayne: thnx 00:42:41 Christian Corulli: I think it would ruin the prayer if we did understand the points of dryness 00:53:39 Victor: Parental bragging rights enhanced by need for non-ending FB posts. Good points. Let kids play. “Leisure, the basis of culture”. 00:53:44 Alan Henderson: Father, on this point about children, what are your thoughts about finding a balance between - letting children have the play time as you mention, and finding them hobbies/activities that they can enjoy (and spend time with friends). I agree with you that this is a major concern in how we are shaping our kids. 00:55:50 Leilani Nemeroff: If I had it to do over, as a parent, I wouldn’t have felt obligated to run to so many activities. 00:56:06 Wayne: Reacted to "If I had it to do ov..." with 👍 00:58:07 Leilani Nemeroff: There needs to be time for more free play. 00:58:56 Victor: Playing cops & robbers as a kid helped me to warn community when gunman was outside our liturgy back in 70s. Also to help generate strategy when a priest & I were chased by robbers in Africa once. 00:59:55 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "Playing cops & robbe..." with 😮 01:00:10 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "Playing cops & robbe…" with 😮 01:02:03 Ashley Kaschl: Father, I don’t want to totally change the topic away from good leisure and play, which is so good, but I was thinking about what you said in regards to busying ourselves or adding to our lives when we don’t need to add, and it brought to mind two quotes: the first is a monk’s reflection on his need to leave his cell for begging. He said, “Every time I leave my cell, I return less myself.” And the second is from St. Francis of Assisi, when he would daily pray, “who are You, Lord, and who am I?” I think work properly related to our state in life is meant to be shaped around our prayer time, not our prayer time shaped around our extracurricular activities. I know I fail in this all the time but I find that I have to often reorient myself when I approach prayer because I have to shed burdens I did not know I picked up to carry before I can be with the Lord in a deeper intimacy. 01:03:42 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "Father, I don’t want..." with 🥰 01:05:47 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: I have come to realize that sane and holy life requires quiet time for prayer but also quiet time for psychological wholeness. Time to sort things out... 01:13:07 susan: learned so much!! 01:13:13 Victor: Thanks, Father & everyone. 01:13:17 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:13:29 Jeff O.: Thank you!
We continued our reading of the Evergetinos this evening with hypotheses 19 and 20. Once again we find ourselves considering the fathers’ teaching on eating and our use of food. Part of the reason they spend so much time on this subject is because they understand the meaning that food has for us as human beings and that it often goes well beyond that of nourishment. We come into this world and our first and earliest experience is that of being suckled; fed at the breast of our mother and thereby comforted. On a psychological level, food can continue to have this meaning. That is not necessarily something bad. There is a form of communion that we have with each other when we have a common meal. Indeed, this is why Christ gives himself to us as Eucharist. However, in our sin, the desire for food can be driven more by the emotional needs that we have in our day-to-day struggles. The fathers understood that the psychological reality affects us spiritually.
Over and over again, we can turn to the things of this world to satisfy the longing of the human heart that God alone can fill. Christ is the Bread of Life and he alone can nourish us upon his love. Thus the fathers, especially those who entered into the desert, became acutely aware of the need to be watchful of this bodily hunger. When we lose our watchfulness or when we relax our disciplines, once again we can move towards satisfying ourselves through the things of this world.
Food can become an idol. The monks understood that even in our religiosity we can be tempted to celebrate feasts in such a way that we cast aside all that was gained through fasting. What worth is it to fast 40 days of Lent then only to turn around and eat excessively for 50 days until Pentecost?
The fathers also identified another danger. Our religious sensibilities and identity can be just strong enough that they lead us to want to maintain the illusion of holiness and discipline. The fathers warn us about the temptation to secret eating. Hiding the truth from others as well as from oneself only prevents repentance. In order to hold on to the illusion and false image of the self, we can destroy ourselves spiritually.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:16:18 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 150 00:16:49 Lilly: Reacted to "P. 150" with ❤️ 00:35:32 Forrest Cavalier: That earlier story was Evergetinos 11 in Volume 2. 00:39:02 iPhone: The YouTube channel is Athonite Audio. Audio books from the monks on Mount Athos 00:50:20 Forrest Cavalier: To know, love, serve in this life, and to be with him in the next 00:55:45 Ambrose Little, OP: Only the flamin hot ones, tho 01:07:16 Rebecca Thérèse: Is the real issue that the monk out of pride allowed people to think he was better than he was. 01:09:46 Fr Marty, AZ, 480-292-3381: I too often judge myself based on some preconceived results or image of what I or someone else should look like. Whereas, it sounds like the fruit of the soil that are my circumstances and weakness and gifts. God told Paul, where you're weak I'm strong. God can hide me in his own way that bears fruits that aren't necessarily visible results. 01:12:43 Nypaver Clan: Thank you, Father! 01:12:51 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You 01:13:22 Andrew Adams: Thank you, Father! 01:13:30 Cameron Jackson: Thank you Father. 01:13:33 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father 01:13:34 Rebecca Thérèse: thank you🙂
The very words of St. John Climacus seem to carry us up to heights hitherto unknown and unexpected. The experience of this ascent takes place as we feel our hearts begin to burn for love of God and the desire for him in prayer.
St. John quickly moves us away from looking at prayer as a mere discipline and rather our being drawn into the depths of Mystery, the very Mystery of the Triune God. The act of praying is a blessing in and of itself. To enter into this converse with God is also to experience the action of the Spirit within our hearts, the groans of Love that are beyond words.
In all of this, St. John reshapes are understanding of the nature of prayer. It is not a discipline but an expression of our true nature in Christ. We are to become prayer, consumed by love for the Lord; anxious to show that love and treat it cheaply.
Faith, St. John tells us, gives wings to prayer. Through it we see with clarity our hearts’ desire. An urgent longing takes hold of the heart that seeks quick satisfaction; that is, seeks to take hold of the Beloved without delay.
--- Text of chat during the group: 00:08:23 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 237, #26 00:12:17 iPhone: Thank you, Bob 00:12:37 Myles Davidson: Hi Father. Which edition of Isaac the Syrian’s AH will you be using? 00:13:38 iPhone: Beautiful book 00:13:51 Bob Cihak, AZ: Previous posts don't show for newcomers, so I repeat: P. 237, #26 00:14:02 Bob Cihak, AZ: Yes! “The Ascetical Homilies of Saint Isaac the Syrian, revised 2nd Edition” published by Holy Transfiguration Monastery, https://www.bostonmonks.com/product_info.php/products_id/635 . 00:14:16 Cindy Moran: I just got mine in the mail---loving the glossary. 00:14:43 Cindy Moran: Excellent...yes! 00:26:15 Anthony: I think the focus on law and duty that we see in some Catholic subcultures damages our understanding of prayer in this mystical way. At least, I think it was not healthy for me, with efforts like "storm heaven with this novena." 00:27:53 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "Yes! “The Ascetical ..." with ❤️ 00:30:43 Anthony: Another thing about legalism is that it chokes faith. 00:34:13 Anthony: Like how God said His name was blasphemy among the nation's by bad behavior of the Chosen people. 00:35:35 Kate : I have had to undo a lot of this strict legalistic teaching over the years. Sometimes I fall back into it, and I think it is actually easier for my mind to grasp this legalism rather than open myself and surrender myself to the Love of God. His Love is almost incomprehensible sometimes, but wonderfully so! 00:35:42 iPhone: Glad you mentioned corporal punishment. When I was five or six, I realized how unjust this violence was and I saw that the nun hit us hard enough to make us cry. In my desire for Justice, I resolved not to cry and I didn’t. After that I was marked as a problem child and never got a break. So, yeah, learning to trust is big 00:36:49 iPhone: The nuns meant our best, I’m sure. But something was really off with Irish Catholicism at that time (early 60s) 00:37:13 Anthony: Replying to "The nuns meant our b..." It's Jansenism 00:38:19 iPhone: I think Jansenism is applicable but not the whole story 00:39:21 iPhone: Oh this is Una. Forget to put in my name 00:55:33 Cindy Moran: It's a sort of Divine healing radiation 01:04:21 Erick Chastain: Sorry about that got in car mode 01:04:27 iPhone: Ignatius and remote preparation 01:06:53 Jeff O.: So it all starts with obedience….is this the general movement…recognizing that it’s not quite so linear? obedience —> humility —> discernment —> dispassion —> true prayer 01:12:22 Jacqulyn: Reacted to "Sorry about that got..." with 👍 01:13:34 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You Blessing 01:13:50 Andrew Adams: Thank you, Father! 01:13:57 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father! Will be in prayer for you! 01:13:58 Jacqulyn: God bless! 01:14:03 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂Have a good retreat! 01:14:05 Nypaver Clan: Is there a particular website we should check to get the next book? 01:14:06 Jeff O.: Thank you! 01:14:10 Art iPhone: Thank you, Father! 01:14:22 Joseph: Thank you, Father. 01:14:40 Nypaver Clan: Is the next book cheaper than $70 anywhere? 01:14:59 Maureen Cunningham: On line
Synopsis of tonight’s group on the Evergetinos- Hypothesis 18 Sections H and I:
This evening we concluded hypothesis 18 with the clarity that only St. John Cassian can bring. Cassian, though as western monk, spent many years in Egypt among the desert fathers and was able to distill their thought with great clarity for the western mind as well as the western monk. He shows us what the practice, or as he says, the vast experience of the monks over the course of time offers us. They show us that we are to avoid extremes. Fasting is not to be extended over the course of many days because the immoderate practice of fasting leads to the immoderate break of the fast and over-eating. Fasting is to be embraced, not as an end in itself, but as a means to bringing about both internal and external stability to a confused and unruly life. There is only one hard and fast rule and that is not to eat to the point of satiation. In fact, we must understand the uniqueness of each individual in regard to their experience in the ascetic life and the strength of their constitution. Not everybody can restrain the amount of food they eat to the same extent. Nor can everyone live a strictly vegan diet.
Cassian also notes that illness does not come into conflict with purity of heart. It may demand that we lighten our discipline for the sake of the health of the body. But even here we should eat in moderation and whatever the illness demands without making ourselves slaves to the assaults of evil desires. “The moderate and logical use of food ensures the health of the body; it does not detract from holiness.” Once again the fathers prove themselves to be both spiritually and psychologically astute as well as having a clear understanding of the physiological needs that we have as human beings.
Fasting in many way is starting point for us and not only serves us in the struggle for purity of heart by humbling the mind and the body, but it also reveals to us that the spiritual life must involve the whole person. We begin with the basics and our most fundamental need – the need for sustenance. A confused mind is born out of disorder, and this brings confusion to the soul, and from that purity slowly disappears. Much of the turmoil that we experience in our life arises out of the loss of peace that comes from a disordered life. However, when this order emerges within us and we begin to taste something of the peace of Christ, then something is born within the human heart. The Fathers tells us that from the light of peace a pure wind blows through the mind. To the extent that the heart can draw near to wisdom, it receives grace from God. Thus fasting may not seem to be necessary or important in our generation, but for the fathers it lays the very foundation of a life that is caught up in Christ and transformed by his grace.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:09:53 Nicole Dillon: Hello everyone. Happy to be able to join tonite. Thank you 🙏🏼 🥰🕊️ 00:10:46 Ambrose Little, OP: St. John’s Conferences were one of the few books that St. Dominic kept and carried with him. 00:24:57 Wayne: Some may be Vegan? 00:25:26 Laura: Vegan - no animal products 00:25:34 Lilly (Toronto, CA): No animal products at all 00:25:50 Forrest Cavalier: There are also fruitarians. 00:25:57 Rebecca Thérèse: Vegans won't even eat honey 00:26:17 Lilly (Toronto, CA): I've been a nut for 12 years 😅 00:26:23 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "Vegans won't even ea..." with 🙄 00:26:43 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "There are also fruit..." with 🙄 00:29:14 Anthony: When the Mongols became Christian, they had a meat and milk diet. They were advised by the "nestorian" bishop to abstain from fermented mare's milk. 00:36:04 Lilly (Toronto, CA): I've always wondered if God's plan for Adam and Eve was for humanity to be vegan? Did original sin bring about the killing of animals and need for such products? 00:36:50 Anthony: Reacted to I've always wondered... with "👍" 00:41:43 Nypaver Clan: Can a disordered life cause mental disorder or does the mental disorder usually come first, then the disordered life? 00:51:42 Wayne: Replying to "I've always wondered..." I don't have the scriptural verse in Genuis that suggest we should not be eating animal products 00:56:29 Rebecca Thérèse: When I worked in mental health over a decade ago, professionals completely adopted the secularist notions towards sexuality and sexual behaviour without even any understanding of different values in this area. For example, stating that a Muslim man would have hang ups around sex because of his religion. Also, a colleague was refused a job because in an interview he said he would advise a Muslim with same sex attraction to speak to a Muslim religious leader. He was told he failed the diversity question as this was the wrong answer since religious leaders are the most conservative of people. It's considered bad for mental health to observe traditional sexual morality. 00:58:36 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "When I worked in men..." with 😢 00:58:55 Lilly (Toronto, CA): Is there an actual scriptural verse in Genesis that can clarify my previous question? 00:59:25 Forrest Cavalier: Replying to "Is there an actual s..." Gen 9:3 01:02:44 iPhone: I’ve been called a bigot for believing that homosexuality activity is a sin and that the attraction is disordered, although I do not reject or condemn this man 01:05:36 Wayne: Replying to "Is there an actual s..." yes that's it 01:06:41 Wayne: Replying to "Is there an actual s..." I checked the foot notes on this verse and did not get clarity on it 01:07:27 Nicole Dillon: Thank you Father! 01:07:53 Laura: Reacted to "Thank you Father!" with 👍🏼 01:08:05 Maureen Cunningham: Thank you, FatherI keep you in prayer for your retreat Blessing 01:08:13 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:08:17 Forrest Cavalier: So grateful! 01:08:21 iPhone: Thank you, Father 01:08:29 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father. 01:08:33 Cameron Jackson: Thank you. 01:08:38 iPhone: Bye bye
Joy! Suddenly, as we read through the Ladder of Dive Ascent every cross, every struggle in the spiritual life, while still present, begins to fade into the background. The costs involved in this struggle pales in comparison to the blessings and the fruits that God bestows upon us, especially prayer .
St. John places before us the essentials of prayer - as well as what can undermine it. We continue to struggle to confine our thoughts and then to completely still the mind and the heart. When this takes place, prayer becomes perfection and rapture in the Lord.
This joy, however, especially among the anchorites is marked by humility. One does not expose the deepest elements of the most intimate relationship indiscriminately with others. In any case, it would be impossible to do so. As we are drawn along in faith, as we begin to encounter and experience God as he is in himself, words fail us.
What we must do is hold on to what is precious. Imperfections and anxieties can pull us away from God and our trust in his love. Furthermore the evil one is ever set on disrupting that relationship. Plotting and conniving as he is, he will stir an emotion within our heart; or influence another to engage us in such a way so as to agitate or distract. But we must keep our eyes upon the Beloved.
St. John asks, “For what have I in heaven? Nothing. And what have I desired on earth beside Thee? Nothing, but to cling continually to Thee in prayer without distraction.” Hearing these words, one can never look upon prayer simply as an activity or discipline. It is life. It is love. We are to become prayer.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:06:52 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 235, # 19 00:11:46 Myles Davidson: Greetings from New Zealand! (my apologies for turning up at the end of the last session… got the time zone conversion wrong). Anyway, delighted to be here. These discussions have been an immeasurable blessing to this baby Catholic. Thanking you profusely Father, and God bless you and your ministry!! 00:20:15 Myles Davidson: Do you have any tips for developing watchfulness of thoughts. Is this just a constant practice of mindfulness of thought? 00:29:37 Kate : What about the publication of saints’ diaries or journals? What would the Fathers say about this? 00:30:01 Anthony: Replying to "What about the publi..." I love this question 00:30:36 iPhone: Can you explain vigils? Is it vespers and compline? 00:31:17 Rod Castillo: My Life in Christ by John of Kronstadt ???? 00:32:42 Anthony: So the idea popular in "evangelicalism" (and now with Catholics and Orthodox) of a tell-all conversion story is not appropriate. 00:33:02 Jeff O.: Reacted to "So the idea popular ..." with 🎯 00:34:59 iPhone: This is a fascinating topic, this saying too much Thank you 00:35:31 Rebecca Thérèse: Is there any evidence of changes in attitudes towards publishing personal spiritual journals since the advent of the printing press? 00:37:00 iPhone: Why is this tell-all trend happening? Because so many people have not read the Fathers? 00:37:23 iPhone: Blogs! Immodesty personified! 00:37:30 Myles Davidson: People aren’y going to confession perhaps? 00:56:33 Anthony: Wow. So excessive chasing after goods and the obsession with trans- stuff us a war on prayer. 01:03:27 Rebecca Thérèse: There was a real antipathy towards ancestral religions by many of the founders of modern psychology and psychiatry including Freud. There are also nefarious financial and political interests in these areas 01:06:37 Bob Cihak, AZ: Too true. Too often, it's the easy way out, just prescribing drugs. 01:07:48 Nypaver Clan: An instructor I had at Duquesne U. who was a therapist, often said that the majority of her clients would have best been served in the confessional. 01:13:01 Cameron Jackson: Thank you Father. A great blessing. 01:13:05 Leilani Nemeroff: Thank you, Father! This is a Blessing! 01:13:42 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father! 01:13:43 Andrew Adams: Thank you, Father! 01:13:45 David: Thank you father! 01:13:47 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:13:51 Jeff O.: Thank you! Great to be with you all.
No one is going to take up the practice of fasting or come to “love fasting” as we have often spoken of unless they are taught by those who have deep and long experience in the practice. As we have seen the desert was very much laboratory. Those who entered into it were driven by the desire for the Lord and to remove any impediment to that desire.
Yet, we see in the writings of the Evergetinos a natural progression, an organic progression, in the practice. Their zeal for the Lord often led the monks to engage in the practice of fasting with great strictness and to radically humble the body. However, they quickly learned that to practice even that which is good in an imprudent and unmeasured fashion was dangerous. To fall into exhaustion from fasting too long could make it impossible for a person to remain awake to engage in the practice of prayer or, similarly, weaken their watchfulness of mind such that they become vulnerable to the provocation of sinful thoughts.
The desert fathers also had to learn that fasting was but an implement. It is necessary for the cultivation of the heart, but it must be accompanied by constant prayer and bear the fruit of love for God and virtue. Therefore, the Evergetinos places us in a privileged position. We are able to sit at the feet of the great elders of old and to learn from the errors and the pitfalls that can cripple us in the spiritual life as well as to be inspired by the fathers’ great sanctity. The spiritual struggle is rarely neat and the path ahead is often hidden to us. The desert fathers are shining light in an age of spiritual darkness and lack of guidance. Thanks be to God for such a precious gift.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:30:18 Anthony: I feel targeted.... 😉 00:36:50 Una: Does that include Irish Coffees? 00:48:47 Anthony: It's a gift to be simple, it's a gift to be free 00:48:54 Forrest Cavalier: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_Gifts 00:49:21 Forrest Cavalier: Tis the gift to be simple, 'tis the gift to be free 'Tis the gift to come down where we ought to be, And when we find ourselves in the place just right, 'Twill be in the valley of love and delight. When true simplicity is gained, To bow and to bend we shan’t be ashamed, To turn, turn will be our delight, Till by turning, turning we come 'round right.[5] 00:56:47 Anthony: Excessive sorrow also brings exhaustion. 01:07:30 Anthony: History also shows fixation on pornography is almost always present 01:17:26 Maureen Cunningham: Thank you 01:17:40 Andrew Adams: Thank you, Father! 01:17:46 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:17:50 Kevin Burke: Thank you ! 01:18:03 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father.
There are some things that cannot be learned from books – prayer most of all! However, St. John, as so many of the Saints speaks to us from long experience as one who truly has seen Christ, knows Christ and has conversed with him deeply. Whatever might be lacking in his thought it still stokes the fire of desire within any heart that longs for God.
The desert fathers understood that God looks upon us as his sons and daughters his children, and the simplest word or groan from the heart is sufficient to express our need and love. Above all, we are to have gratitude and a spirit of compunction. With these then we approach the Lord with the intentions of our hearts.
We should not fear our own weakness or the multiplicity of our thoughts that seem to overwhelm us. St. John reminds us that He who “sets the bounds to the sea of the mind will visit us, and during our prayer will say to the waves thus far shall you come and no further.”
Prayer should be the simplest of things, but also what we hold to be most precious. We should come to see it as necessary as breathing but even more essential. The fathers tell us that we are to become prayer - our life is to be a sacrifice of praise. We are to be the very reflection of Christ. The kingdom is now, heaven is now and dwells within us. May our foolish hearts take hold of the gift that the Beloved offers us so freely.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:01:29 Bob Cihak, AZ: p. 234, # 1.5 00:05:18 Bob Cihak, AZ: We were half way thru #1. 00:05:53 Gregory Chura: Which step? 00:06:03 Gregory Chura: Thank you! 00:39:40 Anthony: So how to ignore the rational and irrational mind when praying? Just pray and eventually it happens? Because my mind gets in the way. 00:40:42 susan: Jesus [rayer 00:45:37 David: Sometimes something tactile like a chotki, rosary or stone ( have one that fits my hand from a retreat center) can help one become grounded. Others a icon or image can help set the mind and still others a candle or breathing technique can quickly return us to a calm state. 00:51:37 Wayne: Doing some active physical activity can settle the mind down before prayer. 01:03:05 Jeff O.: proverbs 24 01:03:22 Jeff O.: verse 16 01:03:24 Nypaver Clan: Verse 16 01:14:56 Andrew Adams: Thank you, Father! 01:14:59 Jeff O.: Thank you! 01:15:02 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:15:05 David: Thanks Father! 01:15:06 Gregory Chura: Thank you, Father! 01:15:11 Kevin Burke: Thank you Father!
We picked up this evening with the beginning of hypothesis 18. For weeks now we have been reading about the essential practice of fasting. The cultivation of virtue and the overcoming of the passions is impossible without it. Making use of the body to strengthen the soul is a necessity. But we quickly realize from the stories that this practice can become imbalanced; monks could fall into extremes and be tempted to engage in disciplines in ways that feed the ego – ways that make them feel holy or religious.
Yet the desert was a great teacher. The monks learned in this laboratory the subtle movements not only of the mind and the heart, but the way the demons tempt us to extremes. To fast for three or four days serves only to weaken the body and this can disrupt one’s spiritual practices as well as one make one ill. It can also, fill the heart with pride. In this, the gains made in the life of virtue can be lost in an instant.
Therefore, the fathers begin to understand that fasting must be practiced with restraint, measure, and good wisdom. We must never lose sight of the fact that our fasting is tied to Christ and who he is for us. He is the beloved, the heavenly bridegroom, and our fasting and the hunger it produces must be tied in our minds and our hearts to our desire for Christ, the bread of life. He alone satisfies the deepest longings of the human heart. Therefore fasting is not meant to kill the body, but rather re-order our desires toward their true end. Fasting then is to be done with regularity, extending no more than one day. We begin simply by not eating to the point of satiation. We give the body what is necessary, but no more. In all of this we are taught that the royal path to purity of heart is fasting and that light burdens are also profitable.
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00:07:34 Una: Could someone tell me what book we're using? 00:08:20 Andrew Adams: Replying to "Could someone tell m..." https://www.ctosonline.org/patristic/EvCT.html 00:08:44 Una: Thank you! 00:44:43 Anonymous Sinner: What page? 00:47:02 Una: I grew up in Ireland at the time when doctors were doctors and not pill pushers. Our Dr. O'Dolan's best health advice was to always leave the table a little hungry. He was a good Irish Catholic too. I've found following this advice more difficult that doing "heroic" fasts of ten days or so. 01:01:44 Anonymous Sinner: I thought that it was Mother Teresa who said this, about praying for 2 hours when one is busy? 01:07:41 Maureen Cunningham: Moderation in everything even in moderation 01:08:48 Anonymous Sinner: CS Lewis’s chapter on gluttony in the Screwtape Letters comes to mind 01:16:27 Maureen Cunningham: Thank you Blessing 01:16:37 Andrew Adams: Thank you, Father! 01:16:39 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:16:53 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father
As St. John Climacus comes to the end of the step on stillness and segues into the step on prayer, it is as if he is beckoning us with every word to enter into silence and to give ourselves over to prayer; not as a discipline but rather as a response to the gift of God’s love. We are so often filled with a hunger that is inexplicable to us. We seek to nourish ourselves upon the things of this world indiscriminately - only to find them sadly insufficient. We pathetically move on to something else that captures our attention. The world constantly tells us that it has “some thing” that will fill that void within our hearts.
Therefore, St. John begins to define for us the mother of virtues – prayer. Not once does John describe prayer as a discipline but rather lays out before us all that it promises. The world sees it perhaps as a waste of time or an escape from reality. However, John makes it clear that the union prayer establishes with God upholds the very fabric of the world and opens the door to reconciliation with God. It becomes the cure and the healing balm for the deepest sorrows of human existence.
Those realities that we experience during our life that are most painful are healed by being drawn into the eternal life and love of God - a God who has taken every bit of this suffering upon himself and permeates it. Prayer is our greatest treasure! May God give us the grace in the coming weeks to see and understand this.
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00:15:43 Bob Cihak, AZ: P.232, #77 00:17:02 Bob Cihak, AZ: As best I know, the next book, we’ll be doing is “The Ascetical Homilies of Saint Isaac the Syrian, revised 2nd Edition” published by Holy Transfiguration Monastery, https://www.bostonmonks.com/product_info.php/products_id/635 . 00:17:13 Jeff O.: Reacted to "As best I know, the ..." with 👍 00:22:47 Jeff O.: I find that the 3 o’clock hour is the hour I most regularly awake to spiritual battle…fear, attacks in dreams, etc. There have been many nights I awake during that hour feeling an overwhelming need to pray and sings hymns… I have increasingly seen the value of praying at some time during that hour. 00:38:44 Anthony: This curiousity is a misdirected "eros" 00:39:42 Ambrose Little, OP: You triggered mine, too. 00:39:47 Ambrose Little, OP: Twice 00:39:53 Andrew Adams: Mine too! 00:40:57 Kathy Locher: How can you break its hold? Internet etc 00:42:37 Anthony: Makes us nervous and anxious too 00:59:42 Lori Hatala: there yourlies also 00:59:47 Rebecca Thérèse: Where your treasure is there will be your heart also 01:20:02 Anthony: If chronological time is a creature, prayer brings us to kairos time which like the shekinah or tabor light, is untreated. Thus things in chronological past can be healed. 01:23:09 Andrew Adams: Thank you, Father! 01:23:10 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father! 01:23:11 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:23:12 Jeff O.: Thank you! 01:23:32 Kevin Burke: Thank you Father! 01:23:35 Cameron Jackson: Thank you!
One of the most wonderful things that someone said in the group tonight was: “I am amazed at how simple it all is!” And they are absolutely right in their observation. All that the fathers tell us - about the struggle for purity of heart and overcoming the passions, seeking stillness and constancy in prayer - comes down to one simple reality.
God is love and that all run but “one receives the prize without effort!” He who humbles himself will be exalted. The moment we turn the mind and the heart to God and - even prior to that - the mere existence of humility in our hearts leads God to lift us up to gaze upon him face-to-face. It is like a child who has no illusions about his self-worth or identity, but simply reaches out for the parent and is lifted up immediately in love!
It is this love that the hesychast seeks above all things; the eye of the heart is constantly turned toward and seeking the Belived. What is the one thing necessary that our Lord speaks about in the gospel? Mary sat at his feet being nourished upon his words of love and his presence. This is the better part. We so often complicate our lives and spend years and decades pursuing what the false self tells us that we need or where we will find dignity and the fullness of life. In the end, there is no ladder! There is only love and the urgent longing that makes us strive for it.
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00:22:52 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 230, #68 00:30:26 Anthony: There is a tension though, between a situation that is wrong which should be made right, and waiting in patience 00:33:32 Anthony: Ok, so like Abraham had a promise that took a long timevtivrealize 00:33:41 Anthony: Long time to realize 00:34:58 Anthony: Thank you 00:37:15 Fr Marty AZ 480-292-3381: be self-controlled and sober-minded for the sake of your prayers. 1Peter 4:7 00:39:41 Julie’s iPad: It’s hard when you’re accused of something you didn’t do or say not to defend yourself. 00:51:14 Anthony: Ego is the false self. Is Despondency a false remorse? 00:53:58 Nypaver Clan: Without effort? 00:55:09 Kate : I am really blown away by the simplicity of this. How many times I have complicated the spiritual life! 00:58:02 David: I wasted years reading books and talking to people on discernment which always was a labyrinth of paths. On a retreat a old Jesuit Priest made it easy in 1 minute: Does this lead me closer to God or away from God. Our intellect often gets us lost and like a rocking chair giving us something to do but going nowhere. 00:59:41 Jeff O.: Reacted to "I wasted years readi..." with 🎯 01:02:25 Susanna Joy: There is a proverb in Islam: There are as many ways to God as there are breaths of His creatures. 01:02:34 Anthony: FYI it was college professors and lawyers who, from late scholasticism through "reformation " and spirit of vatican 2 caused us so many problems. 01:03:04 Susanna Joy: It is as simple as the next breath, to turn back to God. 01:12:57 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:13:40 Bob Cihak, AZ: The next book, we’ll be doing is “The Ascetical Homilies of Saint Isaac the Syrian, revised 2nd Edition” published by Holy Transfiguration Monastery, https://www.bostonmonks.com/product_info.php/products_id/635 . 01:14:24 Andrew Adams: Thank you, Father! 01:14:25 David: Thank you Father David! 01:14:28 Jeff O.: Thank you!! Good to be with you all. 01:14:50 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!
The desert was a laboratory. The monks went into its depths precisely to push the limits of what they needed in order to sustain themselves; whether it be food, water or sleep. Therefore, we must not find ourselves put off by the stories that seem so extreme. Quite simply, they were extreme!
The desert being a laboratory, compelled the monks not only to evaluate their motives but also the restraint and measure that was necessary in order not to fall into extremes where they would hurt themselves physically or spiritually. Wisdom is hard won. The generations of monks who lived in the desert offer us a profoundly astute understanding of the human person, our needs, our motivations, and what strengthens or harm us in the spiritual life.
They often learned through error. Sometimes their judgment or lack thereof was a source of profound humility. In the coming weeks, we will be presented with the greater wisdom and balance that began to emerge out of this lengthy experience.
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00:17:27 Jacqulyn: I'm from Oklahoma! 00:18:23 Anthony: Replying to "I'm from Oklahoma!" Nice. I'm from Virginia 00:20:47 Jacqulyn: Reacted to "Nice. I'm from Virgi..." with 👍 01:16:46 Anthony: His weeping sounds like DaVinci who lamented not using God's gifts more, or like Cyrano de Bergerac who struggled to maintain honor. 01:17:11 Una McManus: What edition of the book are we using? 01:17:28 Una McManus: Can someone write it here? Thanks 01:17:42 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:18:57 Andrew Adams: Thank you, Father!
St. John draws us into the experience of stillness and its many fruits. It is a precious gift that comes to us by the grace of God and takes root in a heart prepared through years of asceticism and watchfulness. It is our waiting upon God.
In many ways this sums up the vocation of the hermit/monk. But it also captures the essence of our life and the life of prayer. We are ever waiting upon God to act in our life and we seek to cultivate in our hearts a receptivity to his will and grace. This is the active life, the fulfillment of the vocation for the Hesychast and of all Christians.
The temptations that come are always going to be things that draw one out of that stillness; loneliness, despondency, etc. Whether monk or Christians in the world we must allow ourselves to remain within the crucible of stillness. When we feel lonely and isolated, when we are agitated, our tendency is to run to others or to things within the world. This crucible purifies the desire of our hearts and our faith.
Are we able to give our will over to God? Can we trust that he will make of our lives that which endures to eternity? So often we are set upon fixing, undoing or changing the circumstances of our life that seem inconsistent with what is good or what will lead to a sense of fulfillment. However, when we long for God and when we turn to his love, we become free from being tossed about by the chaos of life. Our hearts find rest only in the Lord - He who is an eternal rock.
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00:03:46 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 229, #57 00:16:25 Ambrose Little, OP: Happy feast day, Fr. Charbel! 00:27:38 Erick Chastain: The rule of St Benedict even says that there is no eating outside of the communal mealtime. So those who follow the rule outside of the monastery can follow this too. 00:32:22 Anthony: Maybe it could be a person who entered this kind of life is not called to it? 00:34:13 Art: My family has been out of the country for 2.5 weeks. I’ve been trying to give myself a little taste of the solitary life from the little I know. I’m sure my attempt is laughable compared to monks, but I still found it hard! 00:34:14 Callie Eisenbrandt: Can this be related to like normal life? Separating yourself from the world work on your relationship with the Lord - It is difficult to find a "good" community with support - so how is one supposed to mimic this when they are in society 00:43:01 Una: Blessed name day, Fr. Charbel. Any books or sources of his teachings you can recommend? 00:45:11 Cindy Moran: This might seem nuts but I waited until God sent me a mate who loves Jesus more than me 00:45:51 Anthony: "Love is a Radiant Light" is, I believe, a collection of St Charbel homilies 00:46:15 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "This might seem nuts..." with 🥰 00:47:15 Callie Eisenbrandt: Connect me Father! lol 00:49:11 Callie Eisenbrandt: haha thank you 00:51:00 Susanna Joy: A cruise / retreat would be good...count me in! 00:52:25 Anthony: In my experience, the torrents of unwelcome thoughts are a military maneuver to draw one's attention to the head and away from a still heart. 00:53:23 susan: for the sake of the 10 good men God saved the city 00:54:22 Susanna Joy: Ok! 00:54:59 Susanna Joy: Mountains in Maine and prayerful company😊 00:55:08 Leilani Nemeroff: Agree about being trapped on a boat! 01:03:45 Susanna Joy: Crucible 01:12:44 Una: What chapter are we in? 01:13:10 Una: Thanks. I'm new 01:13:32 Nypaver Clan: Replying to "Thanks. I'm new" P. 230 01:13:44 Nypaver Clan: Replying to "Thanks. I'm new" #67 01:14:11 Nypaver Clan: Replying to "Thanks. I'm new" 😇 01:18:33 Nypaver Clan: God bless you on your Feast Day, Fr. Charbel! 🙏🏼 01:18:41 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:19:29 Andrew Adams: Thank you, Father! 01:19:30 Jeff O.: Thank you Father, great to be with you all. 01:19:47 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father, wonderful session. 01:19:49 Ann’s iPad: God Bless you Father 01:19:56 Leilani Nemeroff: Thank you! Happy name day! 01:20:03 Lilly (Toronto, CA): Book title?
We continued our discussion of the fathers’ love for abstinence and fasting. While their feats seem amazing to us as well as how little food they needed to sustain themselves, the importance is what this love of these disciplines show us. They were not embraced simply as forms of discipline or endurance, but rather that which humbled the mind and the body. It is counterintuitive for all of those who live in times of great abundance to imagine that radically limiting both the amount and type of food that we eat could have such great significance for the spiritual life. At one point, the practices are compared to David slaying a lion in the protection of his flock. Fasting allows us to put our trust in God, and so becomes a weapon capable of slaying a far more fierce enemy. Similarly, David rushed out to do battle with Goliath with nothing but a sling and a few stones. Likewise, we rush out in battle, unencumbered by the things of this world caring with us the humble weapons of fasting and constant prayer.
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00:09:22 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 124, #5 00:12:09 David Fraley: Hello Father! 00:22:14 Maureen Cunningham: What page 00:22:33 Lilly: Pg 125 #8 00:23:01 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You 00:32:04 Adam Paige: gyrovagues 00:38:26 Bob Cihak, AZ: Waste not, Want not, Skinny not. 00:44:24 Adam Paige: "Prayer, mercy and fasting: these three are one, and they give life to each other. Fasting is the soul of prayer, almsgiving is the lifeblood of fasting. Let no one try to separate them; they cannot be separated." - St. Peter Chrysologus Sermo 43 (Office of Readings for Tuesday of the 3rd week of Lent) 00:47:54 Forrest Cavalier: In Hypothesis 16 there are stories of extreme fasting, some of which must be miraculous, but not without other imitations that are attested. There are several saints who lived multiple years only consuming Eucharist, including St. Catherine of Sienna and St. Joseph of Cupertino. 01:03:59 Rebecca Thérèse: Yes 01:14:53 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:14:57 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You 01:15:33 Andrew Adams: Thank you, Father! 01:15:55 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father. 01:15:56 David Fraley: Thank you, Father! 01:16:01 Jennifer Ahearn: 🙏 thank you. 01:16:08 Mark: thank you father
The fathers often draw us along this mysterious path, the narrow path, that leads to the kingdom. They lead us, as it were, “where angels fear to tread.” They show us in an unvarnished fashion how the path to Godly love and virtue passes through affliction.
Yet, even that is too simplistic. It is the suffering heart, the heart crushed by prayer and the desire for God, that gives birth to virtue. One cannot have God sorrow and suffering if he does not first cherish the causes of these.
It is here that we must pray for the illumination that comes through faith. For we are told fear of God and the reproof of one’s conscience give birth to this godly sorrow. Abstinence and vigil keep company with a suffering heart and strengthen it to remain upon this path. Gluttony in all of its forms gives rise to the bad blood of the passions, and drives out the influx of the Spirit.
Thus, while we are young, we must learn to delight in what comes from the labor of compunction. If we do not, we will simply provoke confusion and callousness in the heart. We will be frustrated and lose our desire for God. Knowledge of God and the things of God do not reside in the hedonist; and the one who loves his body will not acquire the grace of God.
There is a plethora of ways that we idolize the body and its needs. It is for this reason that we are given multiple stories of elders crushing the demons by their asceticism. They starve the demons by not allowing them to feed upon the disordered and the unholy desires that often dwell within our hearts. If a man spends his life in fasting, then his adversaries, the passions and the demons flee, enfeebled, from his soul.
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00:37:43 Kate : I think sometimes we can hesitate in the ascetical life due to an exaggerated fear of suffering. I know I have felt this myself. But when we begin to engage in ascetical practices there is a sweetness and joy and peace in making our way towards God. It is not a sensible sweetness, but a deep interior sweetness. 00:38:51 Adam Paige: At church and Catholic home meetings, I'm constantly being offered food.. it's not always clear whether to accept hospitality or decline sometimes large amounts of food 00:44:25 Fr Marty, AZ, 480-292-3381: Besides wine, it sounds like that satiating our longing for God or restlessness to do God's will by overdoing anything: food, lust, entertainment, news, even complaining, can numb our sensitivity to not just the Holy Spirit's guidance, but even our ability to just be at rest with life we've been given and be content during prayer. 00:44:45 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Besides wine, it sou..." with ❤️🔥 00:48:56 Forrest Cavalier: καὶ αὐτὸς. ποὺ ἀγαπᾷ τὸ σῶπα του 00:49:06 Forrest Cavalier: Agape love 00:53:21 Forrest Cavalier: It is the greek original of "he who loves his own body" 00:55:36 Anthony: I went to Italy and got some prayer cards from Naples and Calabria. Some of them do not end prayer in "Amen" but "Cosi sià," which I take to mean "As He (the Lord) wills." 01:02:07 Fr Marty, AZ, 480-292-3381: Just as God wants us well fed in those things that keep us healthy, could it be that the devils have the strategy to starve us spiritually by glutting our appetites, and keep us from feeding on the Word of God or Body of Christ. It seems at times I've been starving on a full stomach. That even in great pleasure, I felt no love or joy.. 01:05:52 Jennifer Ahearn: There is a term I just learned ‘simping’, in romantic relationships a male who is over attentive and submissive to a woman’s desire. Only the blessings and God’s good pleasure to see his children fulfilled really satisfy the soul and strengthen the Sacrament. 01:06:14 Anthony: I'm preparing to move, and trying to follow St Charbel's advice, cutting out of my life books that I bought to be a somebody, a scholar, but really are so much extra weight - other than the one "jar" I should carry or am called to carry in life, for my vocation. 01:08:44 Ambrose Little, OP: Jim Gaffigan 01:08:51 Nypaver Clan: Jim Gaffigan? 01:09:12 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "Jim Gaffigan" with 👍🏼 01:14:08 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂Happy birthday🎂 01:14:14 Anthony: Auguri, Padre! 01:14:23 Adam Paige: Ad multos annos ! 01:14:23 Steve Yu: Happy Birthday, Father! 01:14:24 Nypaver Clan: Birthday blessings 01:15:03 Andrew Adams: Thank you, Father! Happy Birthday! 01:15:23 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father. Happy Birthday.
St. John Climacus once again gives us powerful images to help us understand the meaning of stillness and how it is to be protected. One such image is that of an eyelash that falls into the eye and creates irritation. The enemy of stillness is agitation; we are often driven to distraction by a concern for our physical and emotional well-being. Fear can create within us a kind of hypochondria. We become hypersensitive to our health and well-being. Unchecked, this fear can be become so excessive that it creates a massive neurosis that prevent us from trusting in the providence and promises of God. We no longer feel ourselves being drawn along by love or seeking to remain in that stillness in order that we might know intimacy with the beloved. Rather, we desperately push forward, driving ourselves to the point of exhaustion, seeking a worldly peace and security.
However, in this we deprive ourselves of a childlike sense of wonder at the life and love the God has made possible for us. Therefore, as Christ tells us, we may not experience the kingdom even though it dwells within us because we are focused upon controlling our life and shaping our own identity. Once the simplicity is lost, it can lead to a kind of quiet desperation. Our hearts long for love from others and from God, but in the complexity that we have created and the thick hedge of responsibilities with which we surround ourselves, we lose faith and hope that such freedom can ever be ours again.
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00:03:18 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 228, #48 00:26:14 Anthony: Another issue is for one in involuntary solitude, having a desire for companionship goes out to fill the void 00:27:33 Anthony: This is a reason for excessive social media or tv or radio, and God's gifts are dissipated 00:30:57 Bob Cihak, AZ: The stutters are because you're reflecting as we go. 00:36:19 Anthony: Not to analyze the thoughts. I've been surprised by horrid thoughts, and thereafter been so concerned about them, that concern brings them to mind. 00:47:15 Kate : It’s almost as if we don’t trust the grace of God. We don’t trust the Providence of God and His Presence within the soul. 00:55:09 Susanna Joy: So true...believing the promise of God's everlasting goodness is key. Elizabeth said to Mary: Blessed is she who believed that the promise made by God would be fulfilled. And it is true for all of us. 00:57:32 Lilly (Toronto, CA): Covid was a curse *and* a blessing, it brought Fr Abernethy to my life...I am so grateful 🙏 00:57:51 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "Covid was a curse *a..." with 🥰 00:57:57 Lilly (Toronto, CA): Reacted to "Covid was a curse *a…" with 🥰 00:58:40 Kevin Burke: Reacted to "Covid was a curse *a…" with 👌 01:03:55 Susanna Joy: Yes...wonder! 01:04:13 Greg C: It was a blessing to me as I began to read scripture much more deeply, and understand the Divine Liturgy with so much more love. 01:04:26 Susanna Joy: Reacted to It was a blessing to... with "❤️" 01:04:36 Susanna Joy: Reacted to Covid was a curse *a... with "❤️" 01:04:46 Greg C: Reacted to "Covid was a curse *a..." with ❤️ 01:16:49 Susanna Joy: Jesus did say, unless you become like little children you cannot enter the kingdom of God. 01:19:21 Susanna Joy: Trust and Wonder.💗 01:19:58 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father! 01:20:08 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:21:08 Cindy Moran: My birthday is July 8...I will be thinking of you! 01:21:18 Sharon: Thank you!
What is it that we are hungry for in this world? So many of the writings of the fathers can be reduced to this very question. What is the deepest desire of our hearts? What have we been created for and what satisfies the sense of incompleteness or the strange feeling of nostalgia within us?
Because we have been created for God and find in Him our truest identity, we are going to experience ourselves as strangers in a strange world. We are made like everyone else and experience internal and external pressures to pursue what the world deems legitimate and of value. In the process, any thought of the future or the remembrance of God slips out of our minds. We become slaves not only to our bellies but to everything that we consume in an unthinking fashion.
Abstemiousness and simplicity are not about lack but rather fullness. We must attend to the very real needs of the flesh but only as much as is required - and sometimes less. When we lose sight of God, our internal world is driven by anxiety and fear. We seek for security and to protect ourselves from want. What we find in the fathers, however, is not a starving of themselves, but rather the starving of the demons and what they nourish themselves upon. We engage in the ascetic life in order not to keep feeding the appetites and the passions that tie us to the world.
This is no easy task. Rationalization and the illusion of joy and freedom keep us moving forward. However, these things (very much like rights and happiness) are very fragile. We think they are the norm but this is perhaps the great deception of our times.
Our life has been given to us for repentance and we must not waste it. Life is a relationship; a constant turning towards God and who is constantly seeking us. Let us not grieve the Holy Spirit by seeking to quench our thirst for life and hunger for love other than in God.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:11:09 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 118, para 2 00:17:20 Bob Cihak, AZ: Oops. P. 119, para 2 00:31:47 Cindy Moran: Usury 00:34:45 Cindy Moran: No cash allowed at Pirate game concessions 01:08:03 Jennifer Ahearn: Constant prayer, unceasing. There is a Freedom for Excellence between deficit and excess 01:08:47 Jennifer Ahearn: FOMO😃 01:09:26 Jennifer Ahearn: Stay in the rhythm of The Church 01:10:56 Jennifer Ahearn: St. Philip Nero ‘if it is not leading to Christ, cut it out’. Holy leisure is important. 01:11:24 Janine: You are 100% correct 01:12:01 Jennifer Ahearn: Neri 01:12:09 Paul G.: WE experience your teachings and get ntold blessings Father 01:12:24 Paul G.: Untold 01:12:39 Susanna Joy: Reacted to WE experience your t... with "❤️" 01:14:55 Lori Hatala: the things you share are shared with others and create a ripple effect of gratitude and thought provoking prayer. 01:15:00 Jennifer Ahearn: Constant prayer, unceasing. There is a Freedom for Excellence between deficit and excess 01:16:40 Jennifer Ahearn: St Louis DeMontfort Consecration five years in a row in October changed my interior life and mind. 01:18:31 Forrest Cavalier: For me, reading https://archive.org/details/tolovefasting/ has been very eye opening that the practices noted in Evergetinos are not fantastical. He does write that those who live with others will need more nourishment. Monks less, Hermits even less. 01:19:51 Jennifer Ahearn: Yes! Thank you so much, Fr. Charbel. It is a constant reality ♥️🙏 01:20:13 Jennifer Ahearn: It is exciting ♥️🙏 01:21:14 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:21:16 Cameron Jackson: Thank you. 01:21:17 Andrew Adams: Thank you, Father! 01:21:26 Kevin Burke: Thank You Father! 01:21:34 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father. 01:22:22 Lorraine Green: !Thank you Fr., good luck with the move
There is a beautiful movement created in the heart by St. John’s writing; it is almost a dance. We move back-and-forth with St. John by simultaneously reflecting upon the beauty of silence and stillness and the intimacy that we experience with God through it - while also being shown what the loss of the silence does to us.
The silence of which St. John speaks is not just the absence of noise, but rather the presence of a love and life that transcends our understanding. It can only be experienced. Therefore, St. John holds out before us the intimacy for which our our hearts long and that can be found in the silence while also warning us of the dangers and the pitfalls that allow this great gift to slip through our fingers.
The more we become attentive to the interior life, the more we realize how easily we can be distracted; how our thoughts and feelings can be manipulated either by our own appetites or by demonic provocation. It has been said that “Hurry destroys both poets and Saints“. The frenetic activity that surrounds us agitates and fragments the mind and the heart. To live in such a state for a long period of time dulls one’s sensibilities not only to the finer things of life but to God himself.
Thus, the preliminary task John tell us is disengagement from all affairs, whether reasonable or senseless. Both can be equally distracting to us. In fact, it’s often easier for us to recognize the inane things to which we direct our attention then it is to see how the responsibilities and demands that we have set for ourselves places us on a never-ending treadmill of activity of mind and body.
And so let us simplify our lives. It does not take long for us to realize the gains of doing so. We begin to taste, perhaps for the first time, the sweetness of those things that endure.
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00:04:54 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 227, #41 00:37:54 David: OBS software? 00:40:41 Leilani Nemeroff: True, I stopped watching tv. It’s amazing how annoying it is when you’re exposed. 00:41:22 Cindy Moran: Most major movie trailers will have a cut every second. 00:43:15 Callie Eisenbrandt: Father- sometimes I feel guilty turning to the Jesus prayer when I'm feeling distracted or off track, like my mind isn't where it needs to be to be saying the prayer 00:44:16 Leilani Nemeroff: Yes, pronounced correctly! 00:44:26 Cindy Moran: The term for what you describe is called "jump cut" 00:44:41 Dave Warner (AL): Reacted to "The term for what yo..." with 👍 00:45:28 David: Something interest on OBS. We do educational conferences and if more than 15 seconds of silence passes we loose 15-20% of attendants. AHAD apparently has become a norm 00:45:32 Rebecca Thérèse: People are advised that their film clips should be no longer than 3 seconds otherwise people lose attention 00:50:11 Anthony: There's an Orthodox priest, Fr. Barnabas Powell, who says "you are not your thoughts." That really good when thoughts waylay a person like hoodlums. 00:50:38 David: I was taught to see it as waves coming in from the shore for the Jesus Prayer which really helps. It does have a soothing repetition that is similiar. 00:55:35 Maureen Cunningham: Human doing not being 00:55:37 Lori Hatala: Sometimes when saying the Jesus prayer I must say it slowly and loudly when having distracting thoughts until they subside. 00:57:31 Dave Warner (AL): Silence is also the domain of software programmers. 00:58:23 Anthony: In Lercara Friddi, Sicily the town was so silent in siesta that I could hear the pigeons cooing. 01:05:34 Jennifer Ahearn: Ineffable ‘internal journey’ 01:07:34 David: God calls us by name the devil by our sin. We are not defined by our faults 01:08:43 Cindy Moran: I wrote in my Bible when I was 15 yrs old: "Even in my biggest mistake, I am not a mistake" 01:12:28 Kate : I find that the time I am most vulnerable to distraction is after receiving Holy Communion. Sometimes the Jesus Prayer is the only thing I can grasp hold of, so as not to be swept away by the distractions. It is quite a battle sometimes. 01:18:59 Rebecca Thérèse: Sometimes the parking lot is more conducive to prayer after communion than the church 01:19:09 Jacqulyn: Wow! 15 minutes... bring it on! :-) 01:19:23 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You Blessing keep you in prayer Amen 01:19:37 Andrew Adams: Thank you, Father! 01:19:38 Jennifer Ahearn: Thank you 01:19:38 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father very inspiring session! 01:19:41 David: Thank you father! 01:19:51 Leilani Nemeroff: Thank you 01:19:51 Dave Warner (AL): Thank you Father - what a Blessing! 01:19:54 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
In pursuing life in Christ, the experience of reality is often turned on its head. Our perception of the world around us and the interior world is shaped and formed by so many forces and influences. In a counterintuitive fashion, we have to move in opposing directions to the things that satisfy our ego or the desires of the flesh.
Needless to say this can be disconcerting. We may see ourselves as understanding the faith or as having grown in certain virtues only to have it dispersed in an instant by the light of God’s truth. Whether it is something small or great, we can see how far we are from the stillness of mind and body of which Saint John speaks. Indeed, St. John tells us that many of these things the common run of men will find quite alien to themselves.
We are often cast about on the sea of our emotions or blown like a reed in the wind. We struggle with a certain aberration of mind; that is, we are ever so inconstant and changeable in the way that we live our lives. If one does not acknowledge this and struggle throughout the years to purify the heart, then to enter into the life of solitude and stillness can only lead to derangement.
If what guides us is not the humble love and desire to give ourselves over completely to Christ then we are going to be fragmented internally by the most fierce passions. Anger will increase and even the memories of past wounds within the mind can fuel our resentment and drive us to the brink of madness. The person who enters into stillness well is completely unruffled by the chaos that exist in our world and becomes abstracted from the things that take hold of other peoples imagination as having great value. For the hesychast, however, there is only Christ!
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Text of chat during the group:
00:06:08 Greg C: Father, is that still Step 27? I missed last week. 00:06:16 Fr. Charbel Abernethy: page 226 paragraph 32 00:06:24 Fr. Charbel Abernethy: yes. Step 27 00:06:33 Greg C: Thank you! 00:09:50 Bob Cihak, AZ: Will our next book be Ascetical Homilies of St. Isaac the Syrian, by Holy Transfiguration Monastery? 00:10:14 Adam Paige: Reacted to " …" with ☦️ 00:25:08 Art: Where can a lay person obtain a basic rule to follow, to grow with, and progress in? 00:27:19 Adam Paige: https://store.melkite.org/product/publicans-prayer-book/ 00:27:49 Art: Reacted to "https://store.melkit..." with 👍 00:40:04 Cindy Moran: also " to make sublime " 00:56:28 Fr Marty, AZ: Being with people who push my buttons, seems to me, to be one of God’s most common ways of showing me what He wants to heal in me. Metropolitan Vlachos, with his priests in mind, once wrote a book on the healing found in the Desert Fathers. He admitted that they had a good academic study of theology, but he lamented that they did not know how to lead their flocks into healing because they had not gone down the path to their own healing. His remark in the book was, “Theology…is the fruit of a man’s healing.” 01:01:20 Ren Witter: That day, I might have gotten a message from Fr. Charbel saying he was going into permanent seclusion 😂 01:01:57 Julie’s iPad: St Diadochos taught: “ Just as, when the doors of the baths are left continually open,the heat inside is quickly driven out,so also the soul, when it wishes to say many things, even though everything that it says may be good, disperses its concentration through the door of the voice”. 01:12:45 David: 😀 01:13:00 Greg C: 😁 01:13:13 Fr Marty, AZ: :) 01:13:26 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father...excellent session. 01:13:27 Jeff O.: Thank you! 01:13:32 David: Thank you father! 01:13:33 Lorraine Green: Thank you 01:13:40 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
Only the most stalwart and patient of souls can follow along with this evening’s readings without being troubled. Once again it is repeated for us that our life is to be one of constant repentance; that is, turning toward God. Systematically the fathers break down every illusion that we might have about ourselves as having no need of such repentance. Even if we fulfill the work of the day, our response must be like the servants in the gospel: “we are unworthy and have only fulfilled what is our duty.”
Our state of mind can only be that of gratitude for the gift of God’s mercy and grace. He has bestowed upon us an abundance of love despite the fact that we have often, as the scriptures tell us, treated him as “enemies”. Indeed our infidelity and the depths to which it reaches eludes are perception.
Even our growth in virtue should instill within us a greater urgency for this repentance. Growth shows previous inadequacy and negligence. We cannot be prideful or glorious about what we achieve; acknowledging that it is but a pale shadow of the love that God has bestowed upon us.
Such an attitude also leads us to a deeper understanding of the need to embrace affliction. The gospel does not promise the security of this world or its comforts. In fact, just the opposite. To live for God, to embody the beatitudes is to find ourselves scorned and mocked by the world. The narrow way that leads to the kingdom passes inevitably through Calvary.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:06:45 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 112, 3rd paragraph 00:25:55 Lilly: What page are we on? 00:26:11 Lilly: Thank you 00:58:49 Kate : Father, I am thinking about the Sacrament of Penance. My experience has been very legalistic and not really focused on this repentance, this turning towards of God that you are speaking about. Do you have any recommendations on how to prepare for Confession that would be focused on this kind of repentance? 01:02:47 Lilly: I personally found the Eastern sacrament of penance humiliating-in a good way-as we are face to face with the priest, and depending on the father has us under his mantle and full body prostration 01:07:39 Forrest Cavalier: O Lord, I believe and profess that you are truly Christ, the Son of the living God, who came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the first. Accept me today as a partaker of your mystical supper, O Son of God, for I will not reveal your mystery to your enemies, nor will I give you a kiss as did Judas, but like the thief I profess you: Remember me, O Lord, when you come in your kingdom. Remember me, O Master, when you come in your kingdom. Remember me, O Holy One, when you come in your kingdom. 01:07:50 Forrest Cavalier: May the partaking of your holy mysteries, O Lord, be not for my judgment or condemnation but for the healing of soul and body. O Lord, I also believe and profess that this, which I am about to receive, is truly your most precious body and your life-giving blood, which, I pray, make me worthy to receive for the remission of all my sins and for life everlasting. Amen. O God, be merciful to me, a sinner. O God, cleanse me of my sins and have mercy on me. O Lord, forgive me for I have sinned without number. 01:08:25 Forrest Cavalier: From https://parma.org/prayer 01:15:32 Maureen Cunningham: Thank you Father Blessing 01:15:44 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father 01:15:48 Cameron Jackson: Thank you 01:16:02 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
What possibly could hesychasm or the life of hesychasts - those who live in perpetual stillness and prayer - mean for those who living in the world; for all of those surrounded by a constant stream of noise and distraction?The answer is everything! Though few are called to this manner of life, all are destined to experience the fullness of its joy and sweetness in Christ in the kingdom. We have been made sons and daughters of God and the very Spirit of Love dwells within our hearts.
What moves us to emulate the fathers in their discipline, to seek what they seek, must be the same desire. Our experience of Christ, our drawing close to him through prayer, the sacraments, and the scriptures must kindle within us an urgent longing for what He alone can provide.
Those who love the things of the world do not see the pursuit of them as being extreme. Why is it when it comes to seeking the One who offers us perfect Life and Love that we become self-conscious; that we begin to worry about what others may think of us or how they might treat us? Why is this true even though Christ tells us that we should expect to be hated all by all because of His name? The Hesychast becomes the image of one who adds fire to fire. Having tasted the sweetness of Divine Love, he is willing to sell all to possess it. Gradually he becomes prayer and his life - a sacrifice of praise. In this he becomes like unto the angels.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:29:15 Michael Hinckley: what you are talking about reminds me of St Thomas' straw comment. 00:32:04 Nick Bodmer: I believe it was Sartre 00:32:20 Michael Hinckley: "other people" came from that play no exxt? 00:32:25 Michael Hinckley: exit 00:32:32 Nick Bodmer: Yes, No Exit 00:32:47 Susan M: YES IT WAS SARTRE 00:32:56 Michael Hinckley: On the feast of St. Nicholas [in 1273, Aquinas] was celebrating Mass when he received a revelation that so affected him that he wrote and dictated no more, leaving his great work the Summa Theologiae unfinished. To Brother Reginald’s (his secretary and friend) expostulations he replied, “The end of my labors has come. All that I have written appears to be as so much straw after the things that have been revealed to me.” When later asked by Reginald to return to writing, Aquinas said, “I can write no more. I have seen things that make my writings like straw.” 00:55:18 Rebecca Thérèse: It made a big difference to me when I was talking to a Catholic priest and I realised that he really believed what he was saying. That was one of the main things that informed my decision to become Catholic having previously been Anglican. 00:57:13 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "It made a big differ..." with 🥰 01:01:20 Michael Hinckley: need to drop This Holy Priest is living much of what is mentioned here. He is part time hermit and fun to watch https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIcePO_eJb28EWIw68kBQMew0vMZydwj1 01:07:28 Kate : It seems like he is giving us an examination of conscience when he lists the different places on the ladder. 01:08:11 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "It seems like he is ..." with 👍🏼 01:11:41 Andres Oropeza: What if you suffer from despondency but the common life isn’t an option and yet the battle rages around you, or even if you aren’t alone but the people with you can’t offer what’s needed? Should we not pursue stillness by cutting out distractions, focus on prayer and fasting etc. or temper it in some way? 01:19:58 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father! 01:20:05 Jeff O.: Thank you!! Great to be with you all. 01:20:09 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you
We picked up this evening with Hypothesis 13 on the subject of keeping Vigil and not giving oneself over to excessive sleep. However, as we immersed ourselves in the reading, we began to see the father guiding us into something much deeper. The teaching on keeping vigil is a bridge to talking about Repentance.
We were presented with the most beautiful understanding of the path the Christ guide us upon. There is a radical simplicity about it that is meant to cut through our tendency to turn the faith into something that is complex and impossible to understand. Repentance is not confined to particular times and deeds, but is put into practice to the extent that the commandments of Christ are fulfilled. The struggle for it is continuous until death.
The kingdom of Heaven is at hand! This is our path! It is the constant turning toward God that draws us forward, transforms us, and allows us to comprehend the things of the kingdom. This forsaking of self and sin is the oil of our lamps and each person will reveal who he is from this lamp. His own, not another’s! It is filled and the light kindled by the practice of virtue.
In fact, we are told that if we fail to live this and proclaim it to the world both in word and deed, we annul all that we do because we forget and do not take into account death. Our entire life is to be a striving to enter by the narrow gate, to walk the path of repentance - the dying to self and the rising to new life in Christ
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Text of chat during the group:
00:07:23 Fr. Charbel Abernethy: Hypothesis XIII page 108 00:23:19 Lori Hatala: Like a soldier. 00:25:31 Adam Paige: To Love Fasting (pdf) https://archive.org/details/tolovefasting 00:26:22 Dave Warner (AL): Reacted to "To Love Fasting (pdf..." with 👍 00:30:55 Steve Yu: Reacted to "To Love Fasting (pdf…" with 👍 01:12:51 Lorraine Green: Thank you Fr.! 01:12:56 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father 01:13:02 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:13:04 Steve Yu: Thank you, Father! 01:13:25 Jessica Michel: Thank you Father 01:13:46 Lori Hatala: or a date 01:14:11 Rebecca Thérèse: Can you set it up so you have a choice of oldest first or most recent first? YouTube channels have this option for example 01:14:30 Cameron Jackson: Thank you. Very grateful.
It’s hard to imagine ourselves as being nourished upon stillness and silence. Yet, this is exactly what the fathers and St. John Climacus seek to teach us. Stillness allows us to have an experiential knowledge of intimacy with God - an encounter with Mystery. When we have shut the door to the senses, when we stilled our mouth from constant chatter and when we have shut the gate of the heart to demonic powers, it is then that we become prayer and gaze upon the Lord face-to-face. Our petitions, our needs and sorrows are written with love and zeal.
We are to become an earthly image of an angel, whose prayer has not only been freed from sloth and negligence, but even from a kind of self-consciousness. The heart is ever ready for the Lord and His approach; and even if the body should sleep, the heart is awake and awaiting the beloved.
Therefore, stillness is not only about being quiet, but rather it is a path to intimacy. The greater one’s love grows, the more passionate one becomes in their desire for God - everything on the periphery fades away and we see only our Lord.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:09:13 Fr. Charbel: page 223 no 11 00:24:18 Kate : “What more do you want, 0 soul! And what else do you search for outside, when within yourself you possess your riches, delights, satisfactions, fullness, and kingdom - your Beloved whom you desire and seek? Be joyful and gladdened in your interior recollection with Him, for you have Him so close to you. Desire Him there, adore Him there. Do not go in pursuit of Him outside yourself. You will only become distracted and wearied thereby, and you shall not find Him, nor enjoy Him more securely, nor sooner, nor more intimately than by seeking Him within you.” St John of the Cross 00:30:42 Rebecca Thérèse: Can the Holy Spirit shine light on the soul directly, for example if there is no suitable spiritual director or if there are people actively trying to corrupt and mislead the soul? 00:39:08 Nypaver Clan: Is it healthy to have a spiritual director who becomes ones “best friend”? Where are the boundaries to be set for a spiritual director? 00:41:54 Rachel: Yes, it jeopardizes their capacity to love, purely. As we cannot love purely with a gaze directed towards self or creatures 00:43:40 Rachel: it reduces the capacity to see God in the other and the only way a priest can help another or lay people help another is to first know God, to seek God and the ultimatele friendship in God, " I call you friends" 01:08:00 Fr Marty, AZ: I wanted to add to spiritual direction discussion. Everything that was said about spiritual directors is important. Boundaries and confidentiality are needful and we’re also meant to grow in detachment; that’s part of hesychasm. Nonetheless, this doesn’t mean without care and affection. I’ve been close to spiritual directors, especially after ten or fifteen years of direction. And I’ve also became good friends of their other spiritual children. In a detached way, we had joy, love, and openness, but still my spiritual directors were not friends. And boundaries were still maintained. And when we’ve buried them, the other spiritual children fondly remembered their care for us. On the other hand, I once asked a friend who is an exceptional spiritual director to be mine but it didn’t work out. 01:10:09 Eric Ewanco: I observe that stillness and silence plays a central role in the desert fathers, but I don't recall it being discussed in Scripture. Is this based on experience and tradition, or is it rooted in something in Scripture? 01:13:31 Greg C: Thank you, Father! 01:13:38 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:13:44 Jennifer Ahearn: Thank you. 01:13:48 Lori Hatala: Happy Birthday 01:14:27 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father. 01:14:35 Jeff O.: Thank you! Great to be with you all. 01:14:38 Nypaver Clan: A blessed birthday, Mrs. A.!
We picked up this evening with Hypothesis 12. The subtitle is on avoiding idle talk. However, this does not do justice to what we are given in the text. It is revealed to us how we are to kindle within our hearts the fire of love for God that then gives rise to a holy sacrifice of praise.
Thus, the greatest thing that we can give God is to emulate the angels who praise Him without ceasing. Our love for the Lord should give rise to an urgent longing within the heart to call out to Him constantly and without distraction.
Likewise, when we pray in common, we are to be attentive to the fact that we are responsible for the attentiveness of those around us and seek to preserve their focus. We do not pray or chant in an individualistic fashion but again imitate the angels in crying out to the Lord with one voice of love.
What a blessing monks are for the church. The fathers tell us that Christ perfects the praise of infants; that is, he prefects the prayer of the monk in his innocence and childlike simplicity. It is through this humble prayer and sacrifice of praise that the demons are conquered. What makes this even more powerful is that it is often done hidden from the eyes of the world. Such prayer is offered without pride or self-consciousness. Rather it rises unimpeded to the very throne of God on behalf of all.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:46:55 Forrest Cavalier: Since you mentioned the comment of the monk, I was thinking that every vocation is "impossible". Hence the need for grace. 01:06:33 Lorraine Green: Thank you! 01:07:05 Lisa Smith: Thank you Fr. And God bless you.🙏 01:07:26 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you
St. John Climacus brings us now to discuss the fruits of the ascetic life. We picked up this evening with Step 27 on “stillness of mind and body”. John is very hesitant to approach such a subject. He does not want to distract the warrior from the task at hand; that is, those who are engaged in the spiritual warfare against the passions and the provocations of the evil one. He only relents because he understands how important it is to see the goal of the spiritual life so that it might increase our desire for God and our detachment from the things of the world.
Holy stillness emerges when the Nous, the eye of the heart, has become impenetrable and undistracted by the noise of the world. The disordered passions have now become a purified and single passion or desire for God. The love of and immersion in silence deepens because it is there that God speaks a Word that is equal to Himself. The language of Love, beyond words, begins to well up from within - united to the Spirit that cries out with groans that are beyond our understanding.
St. John acknowledges that many will not perceive or grasp the holy violence of the Hesychast; that is, the radical turning away from the things of the world in order to turn completely toward God. This turning toward God, however, does not limit our vision or comprehension as those who are worldly often believe. Rather, it opens us up to an experience of infinite mystery of God himself; everlasting Life and Love.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:06:16 FrDavid Abernethy: page 221 00:06:30 FrDavid Abernethy: Sept 27 On Holy Stillness 00:36:18 Anthony: How do we relate, then to people like I have met, pagan Hindus and a Muslim, who also appeared to me to have this spirit of peace? 00:41:16 Rachel: Yes!! 00:41:32 Rachel: Saint Charles de Foucald 00:41:55 Rachel: Algeria 00:42:05 Rachel: same as St. Charles De Foucald 00:43:55 David: O Gods and Men is the movie 00:44:25 David: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1588337/ 00:45:06 David: The original is French Des Hommes et des dieux 00:47:14 Jeff O.: When I was Nepal, the Christians would, instead of greeting with “namaste” greet with the phrase “J’amasee” - “I honor Christ (and his work) in you.” I thought that was a beautiful way to greet people with the honor and love of seeing Christ in the other… 00:49:17 Rachel: This happens in iconography as well/ 00:49:31 Anthony: Reacted to This happens in icon... with "👍" 00:49:41 Rachel: Or I should say, sacred art as opposed to iconogrpahy 00:53:09 Rachel: I am not criticizing either but making a distinction when someone thinks that" abstraction" in iconography is simplified, yet, it is the overly realistic and naturalistic emphasis on every line that detracts from the mystery that is being revealed before us. 00:58:22 Rachel: Oh my goodness. That is so beautiful. Thank you for sharing. 01:00:03 Anthony: Reacted to When I was Nepal, th... with "👍" 01:01:09 Maureen Cunningham: Did Father Damion who lived among the leaders in Hawaii 01:01:27 Anthony: Replying to "I am not criticizing..." Compare the "naive" ... 01:02:17 Maureen Cunningham: He would go on a boat to and yell his confessions. I was told 01:02:44 David: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0165196/ 01:11:26 David: Theology without practice is the theology of demons- Maximus the Confessor 01:14:34 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You Father 01:15:02 David: Thank you father! 01:15:02 Jennifer Ahearn: Thank you 01:15:05 Rachel: Thank you 01:15:05 Jeff O.: thank you! 01:15:19 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank yu
As we conclude Hypothesis 11, we are given very solid food to nourish our understanding of the nature of prayer and our demeanor. How is it that we are called to worship God, to pray the psalms, and what is our demeanor to be following that worship?
A kind of liturgical asceticism must guide and direct our prayer and piety. Even the way that we pray and celebrate the liturgy, and one might say especially here, must allow the grace of God to guide and direct us. As always, Christ is the standard and the model. It is his humility, silence, obedience to God that must form and shape the way that we approach the altar and the manner in which we listen to the word of God.
We must pray in a manner fosters patience and that allows us to listen with the spirit of contrition. We gather before God not to alter our emotional state or to create an experience that simply elevates the mind. We come before God to offer him a sacrifice of praise and that sacrifice is the fullness of our self. We are to be completely given over to him in such way that we withhold nothing from Him and are capable of receiving everything He desires to give us.
Very few in our day think of worship in this fashion. May God give us the grace to offer him all that we have and are; for in seeking what He desires, God bestows upon us more than the mind in the heart can imagine.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:21:49 susan: after MASS i have to go to my car to pray! 00:48:07 Carol Roper: it seems that the caution is against performing, vanity, pleasure seeking, even in liturgy. one's motivation must be examined carefully i imagine 00:52:59 Anthony: Let Us Build the City of God.....they still sing it. Sigh. Are you TRYING to get me to change rites? 01:02:16 Rebecca Thérèse: a bruised reed he will not break and a dimly burning wick he will not quench 01:02:17 Carol Roper: oppressed and afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth, like a lamb led to the shearers 01:04:52 Dave Warner (AL): A bruised reed He will not break - Isa 42:3 01:05:17 Rebecca Thérèse: Isaiah 42:3 Matthew 12:20 01:16:22 Lisa Smith: Thank you & God Bless you. 01:16:36 Cameron Jackson: Thank you 01:17:19 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:17:26 Dave Warner (AL): Thank you Father! 01:17:27 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father
We come to the end of Step 26 on Discernment and in doing so we begin to see, or at least get a glimpse of, its importance for the spiritual life. So often sin distorts are perception of reality. It prevents us from seeing with clarity both the dignity and the blessings that come from being a son or daughter of God, baptized into Christ - as well as preventing us from seeing the darkness of sin.
Christ tells us in the gospel that when the eye has been darkened completely, how great is the darkness! When the eye of the heart, the eye of the soul is darkened by sin then all that we see is the world before us in its most basic form. We see it as an object of consumption or we covet the things that we do not possess.
In this we can become more like beasts who walk on all fours with their eyes cast down to the earth. It is discernment that allows us to see the glory of God in Christ Jesus. In the end, discernment gives rise to the acquisition of love - that is to say, the perfect dwelling of God.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:13:56 David: Father Mike Schmidt and neuroplasticity as well say with defects to right out the story or triggers. What leads to what and one often fines one needs to focus on the triggers and write a different story. 00:16:18 David: Like a dog returning to vomit. Can't get that out of my head now 00:27:38 Wayne: Very timely as suicide is being offered as an option if one finds their suffering overwhelming. 00:29:07 David: In one of my darkest times and despair I realized I had belief but no faith which is tied with hope. Now I just think what am I to learn from this situation and it will pass. 00:34:33 Anthony: There is a particularly horrible thought: curse God and die 00:35:00 Anthony: That cuts at rather suffering soul's very hope 00:48:47 Anthony: Father, remember cooking and baking are arts, to be done well...like the Cathdral of Monreale. 😉 but yeah, I get you. 😀 00:52:27 Maureen Cunningham: Christ dwell with in us when we gather we bring the body of Christ together 00:52:48 David: I think it got worse after COVID few shake hands and it seems there is little small talk. 00:57:58 Anthony: I've studied heresies and heretics for years. I observe that along with with religious differences - maybe preceding them - is a break in communion or a lack of peace: nationalism or personal trauma 01:10:51 Susanna Joy: My heart is still back at the dog and the priest... 01:10:57 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:11:00 Andrew Adams: Great class tonight! Thank you, Father! 01:11:02 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You 01:11:46 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father...excellent session! 01:11:48 David: God Bless thank you Father David! 01:11:49 Art: Thank you 01:11:50 Jeff O.: Thank you!! 01:11:58 Sheila Applegate: Thanks Father!
All that we do is to be touched by the grace of God, shaped by it, and perfected by it. This includes our virtues, and also the manner in which we pray.
Psalmody has always been apart of the prayer tradition of the church and in particular of the monastics. The psalms capture within them both the adversities and the joys that we experience in this world. It is the most important thing that we can do as human beings; to seek to God and offer a sacrifice of praise.
Therefore, the monks are very careful to allow their prayer to be guided by God. We can be willful even in the fashion that we pray and sing. This is also true in the times that we set for prayer for ourselves. For example, the monks prayed many times a day together; emphasizing that they are part of the body of Christ. We do not pray as individuals, but always aware of the radical communion that exists not only with God but with one another.
Thus, we find among the fathers an emphasis upon praying and singing while remaining conscious of what is going on within their hearts. We do not want to fall into distraction or lead others into it. Simplicity and humility should be the mark of worship; that which guides us in order that what we sing and pray is reflective of the reality within our hearts and our desire for God. Once again, we are presented with a kind of liturgical asceticism. Liturgy shapes the interior life and the interior life shapes the way that we pray.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:42:45 Lori Hatala: I have heard psalms chanted in different melodies. Is the melody of the chant relevant? 00:54:21 Tracey Fredman: Agreed, even if you do not have the time for a whole weekend at a monastery, even a visit while monks are at prayer can be life-altering. 00:55:06 Tracey Fredman: It can alter our prayer life, is what I mean. 00:55:41 Susanna Joy: Beautifully said...discipline is a silent "word" back to God 01:11:07 Wayne: If you have the opportunity to attend Matins or Vespers in the Eastern churches, the changing can have a very positive affect on you. 01:13:40 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father! 01:13:48 Edgard Riba: Thank you! 01:13:50 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙏🙂 01:13:56 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father.
Every week it is as if we are diving into living waters that renew and refresh the soul. This is particularly true of step 26 on Discernment and St. John’s summary towards its conclusion. So often as is true with the Fathers, St. John makes use of concrete and colorful imagery to capture for us the nature of the spiritual life and in this case discernment.
What one gathers in so many of the teachings is that Faith involves seeing; a pulling back of the veil that allows us to see with perfect clarity the love and the mercy of God. St. John describes the many things that hobble us in that regard: Avarice, pride, attachment to our appetites and desire for the things of this world. It also describes the things that sharpen that vision and open us up to receive the gift of faith. Our pursuit of the virtues, and of the truth in our life lays the foundation to receive the greater gift of eternal Truth. This kind of seeing is not passive but rather involves the whole self. The deepest part of ourselves, the Nous, must be purified by Grace and asceticism so no impediment prevents us from moving toward God. The Nous becomes the “helmsman” then to lead us through the rough waters of this world.
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00:12:54 FrDavid Abernethy: page 219 number 42 00:49:30 Lisa Smith: It reminds me of the verse where Christ asked if there would be faith in the end time. 00:51:43 Wayne: How do you respond to the remark I am spiritual but not religious? 00:58:48 Lisa Smith: Thoughts on church attendance? I'm struggling with this presently. I'm not Catholic, but I'm interested in this faith. Thank you Fr. 01:00:34 Lisa Smith: 🙏 Thank you 01:03:14 Cindy Moran: Teilhard de Chardin comes to my mind as an example. 01:03:40 Cindy Moran: Too complicated 01:15:07 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:15:10 sprou: did you see that a blind woman Dafne Gutierrez was healed by St Charbel? 01:15:12 Lisa Smith: God bless you Fr. Thanks for sharing 01:15:51 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father! 01:16:02 Jeff O.: Thank you! Great to be with you all.
The focus of the Evergetinos this evening was on praying the psalms. However, as always with the writings of the fathers, the focus isn’t simply on the external actions, but the meaning of them. How do we pray as members of the body of Christ? Is there a kind of liturgical asceticism that must match our bodily asceticism? What is the measure of our prayer? In other words, as those who live in a spirit of repentance and seek purity of heart, how do these realities shape the way we pray.
The fathers this understood very well our tendency to focus on externals and that we can fall back into a modern day Pharisaism. We can be satisfied with the appearance of religiosity while giving scant attention to what God has revealed to us and the life that he has called us to embrace. Whenever this happens, it not only weakens our capacity to bear witness to Christ but it can undermine the life of the Church as a whole. If our hearts are fragmented by our sin this will manifest itself or be mirrored in liturgy. And when this takes place the entire culture around us - as well as within the church - can collapse.
It’s a sobering presentation, but something that afflicts the Church in every generation. If the Evil One is going to attack the Church, he is going to attack it at its heart; that is, how we pray.
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00:25:00 Kate : There’s also the Little Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary which is very suitable for the laity. 00:25:13 Vanessa: Reacted to "There’s also the Lit..." with ❤️ 00:25:22 Adam Paige: Reacted to "There’s also the Lit..." with ❤️ 00:39:40 iPad (2): That is a wonderful book and he also has a podcast series on the book 00:50:47 Rod Castillo: The Endarkenment 00:54:30 Bob Cihak: Reacted to "The Endarkenment" with 👍 00:57:03 Maureen Cunningham: Oh no 00:57:07 Vanessa: Lol 01:04:40 Kate : Our family has witnessed many a liturgical battle which seemed good and urgent at the time, only to realize that God has been lost in the battle. The battle took center stage, and striving for holiness took back stage. 01:14:53 Maureen Cunningham: Thank you It is wonderful . 01:15:48 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:15:54 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father. 01:16:22 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father! 01:17:13 Maureen Cunningham: Wonderful choice I trust. The lord is leading you as the Captain of the ship in the studies 01:17:26 Vanessa: Reacted to "Wonderful choice I t..." with 👍 01:17:47 Maureen Cunningham: Where would we find the book 01:17:54 Lorraine Green: Thank you, Father, God bless! The Divine Office talks sound very good too.
As St. John draws us forward with these simple sayings about discernment and its fruit, we begin to see the immeasurable beauty of the ascetic life and the action of God’s grace. The life that God calls us to is not one of frenetic activity but rather the cultivation of purity of heart and humility in order that He might act within us. We do not seek simply freedom from sin but rather the life of the kingdom. It is the love, the virtue, the goodness of Christ that transforms the world. It is our entrance into the Paschal Mystery, the dying and rising of the spiritual life (with and in Christ), that makes the love of the kingdom present to the world.
The life of the hesychasts, the ascetics who set all aside for Christ, is at the very heart of the church. When we lose sight of their love and desire for God, the church grows cold. It is in the spirituality of the desert that the church will find renewal; when the minds and the hearts of men and women are open to the beauty of the life that God has called us to by His Grace.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:37:24 Anthony: In a way, some of the response to church scandal has been like an ill- guided peasants crusade. 00:39:35 Anthony: The peasants crusade led to harm for thr peasants 00:54:23 sprou: does solitude equal spiritual warfare? 00:55:33 David: I liked what Bishop Barron said about love being willing the good of the other. (St. John Paul) but first one needs to know what the good is and what is truth. 00:56:03 Vanessa: Reacted to "I liked what Bishop ..." with 👍 00:56:58 Jeff O.: I’ve often wondered about the connection between the cultivation of hesychia and Paul’s admonition to stand in Ephesians 6…it seems there’s some sort of relationship there as it relates to warfare 00:57:01 David: This was in response to a lot of virtue signaling and some of the strange things in our culture. 01:04:43 Kate : A priest told me that hesychia is a form of quietism. His comment confused me, and I did not know how to reply. 01:06:47 Anthony: Uh oh, Palmas vs Barlaam again..... 😉 01:08:39 David: In Latin America it is common with quasi liberation theology priest and lay people to call them navel gazers but this is just seeing the outside aspect not understanding what is being developed. I always call the fathers the intranauts boldly going to the root of our condition. 01:13:18 David: Holiness attracts and people seek what they feel and see in joy and peace of others. N 01:13:32 Vanessa: Reacted to "Holiness attracts an..." with ❤️ 01:13:51 Vanessa: Really enjoying class tonight. Lots of good discussion. 01:14:25 Kate : Father, prior to listening to these classes and discovering the Fathers, my ladder was propped against the wrong wall for years…as you stated earlier. These classes and the Fathers have so transformed my interior life. I have only begun to understand the love of God. 01:15:04 Nick Bodmer: Jesus even rebuked Martha because she was discontent that Mary was not being "worldly enough" in her eyes. The spiritual life was established even while Jesus was still with us. 01:21:40 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:21:51 cmoran: Thank you, Father! 01:21:53 Lisa Smith: Thank you God bless you 01:22:29 Andrew Adams: Thank you, Father! Praying for you! 01:22:33 Jeff O.: Thank you! Blessing to be with you all. 01:22:41 David: Thank you father will pray for you!
We continued with St. John’s summary of discernment and its particular fruit in the spiritual life. However, it does not read like a summary. Each saying opens us up to a divine reality and a participation in the life of Christ that comes to us by grace and the ascetic life. One cannot help but be captivated by the beauty of what St. John describes. It becomes evident that what we are being drawn into is the very beauty of Christ and that of the kingdom. Grace has the capacity to transform even the darkest of things within us and to illuminate the mind and the heart to see clearly what has eternal value. With the reading of each saying one begins to experience a holy desire growing within the heart. Thanks be to God!
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00:06:34 FrDavid Abernethy: page 217 page 14 00:25:57 Anthony: He says this while I'm making dinner.... 00:31:19 David: Despair is suffering without meaning- Victor Frankl 00:49:34 Eric Ewanco: Reacted to "Κλίμαξ αγίου Ιωάννου.LadderClimatuspdf" with ❤️ 00:49:43 Eric Ewanco: Reacted to "TheLadderofDivineAscent.pdf" with 👍 00:50:29 Lisa Smith: Reacted to "TheLadderofDivineAscent.pdf" with 🙏 00:57:24 David: The gate also opens like Grace and one needs to be drawn to the opening in the fence. 01:02:59 Anthony: If our hearts condemn us, God is greater than our hearts.... 01:20:11 David: They are finding so much in neuroplasticity that the fathers described ages ago. One the pathways are established it becomes a cycle. Lots of talk about "rewiring the mind". I think fasting might actually help with rewiring because you are not rewarding a undesired behavior. 01:20:36 Rachel: That was in relation to the other discussion 01:21:56 David: No money in fasting 01:22:10 Rebecca Thérèse: Fasting literally rewires the brain because the body starts to generate new neurons after 48 hours of fasting. 01:22:24 Vanessa: Reacted to "Fasting literally re..." with 👍 01:22:30 David: Autophagy as well 01:23:28 Rebecca Thérèse: Reacted to "Autophagy as well" with 👍 01:25:14 Rebecca Thérèse: Autophagy is where the cells start to digest damaged parts of the body and damage interior to cells 01:26:04 Bob Cihak: Autophagy is also known as apoptosis. I call it cellular recycling. 01:26:32 Rebecca Thérèse: Fasting stimulates growth hormone which os useful in repairing damage and is also useful if you're a body builder 01:26:49 Susanna Joy: Love this clas🙏🏻💖 01:26:59 Lisa Smith: Too Fast. Thank you Fr 01:27:41 Sophia: God bless you fr.Abernethy! 01:27:42 Susanna Joy: Thank you, Father. 01:27:42 Art: Thank you Father! 01:27:43 Jeff O.: Thank you! 01:27:43 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father 01:27:43 David: Thank you father ! 01:27:51 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
As we come toward the end of Step 26 on Discernment, St. John begins to offer us a summary of all that we have considered in the previous pages. In doing this, he alters his typical way of writing. One may speculate that he does this because of the importance of the virtue of discernment; both in fostering it and in protecting it. Using brief sayings, very much like those found in the Philokalia, St. John begins to lay out for us the path to perfecting this virtue as well as to speak of the fruits of it in our lives.
Our capacity to see spiritual realities in an unimpeded fashion allows us to be attentive to all of the vices as well as the remedies that the fathers set before us for overcoming them. In summarizing the step in this fashion, St. John presents us with the truth very much in the way that we receive it from the gospel. It overturns the worldly way of viewing things. It allows us to experience the discomfort of having our sensibilities challenged in regards to our patterns of thought and our most basic desires. It compels us to ask ourselves, “For whom do I live? Who do I love above all things?”
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Text of chat during the group:
00:02:46 FrDavid Abernethy: page 215 00:02:51 FrDavid Abernethy: number 85 00:03:29 FrDavid Abernethy: number 185 00:08:47 Tracey Fredman: Thank you, Fr. David for referencing the book "Toward God" by Michael Casey. It's amazing! 00:08:57 FrDavid Abernethy: great!! 00:09:11 FrDavid Abernethy: he’s a wonderful writer 00:09:40 Kate : I am reading it too! It is wonderful. Like nothing I have read before. 00:09:41 FrDavid Abernethy: his book on lectio divina called Sacred reading is great too 00:26:15 Anthony: Do you have any comments on discerning the origin of thoughts without playing with the thoughts? 00:43:12 Anthony: That makes sense since Eros is a seeking, inquisitive movement. 00:51:38 David Swiderski: Especially prayer with gratitude. 00:52:19 Andy Nguyen: Replying to "Especially prayer wi..." Yup 00:52:21 Wayne: Reacted to "Especially prayer wi..." with 👍 00:58:03 Lisa Smith: I just read this today. 01:01:41 Andy Nguyen: Social media in general is an addiction 01:02:00 Rod Castillo: I go on to Facebook every day to see what you have posted, Father 01:02:36 Lee Graham: I go to X 01:03:05 Susanna Joy: Reacted to I go on to Facebook ... with "❤️" 01:03:35 Lisa Smith: Yeah, there was a time I would turn the internet off totally. It was easier to pray more fully then. I struggle with that these days. 01:03:44 Susanna Joy: Replying to "I go on to Facebook ..." I do too...you often... 01:04:26 Lisa Smith: But on the flip side I discovered Eastern Christianity online. 01:04:40 Art iPhone: Reacted to "But on the flip side…" with 👌 01:04:46 Art iPhone: Reacted to "I go on to Facebook …" with 👌 01:05:45 Art iPhone: Your posts Have real value Father. 01:05:49 BRIAN L: Your posting of On the Passion of the Saviour became part of my daily Lenten prayer so thank you 😃 01:09:17 David Swiderski: I have read this before with the Fathers I think Issac and I don't understand the relation between deer and snakes. Deer seem like fragile creatures and I grew up always being close to them. Destroyers of roses and alfalfa yes. 01:11:14 Jeffrey Fitzgerald: Father, what is the next book after Climacus? 01:11:24 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Prayers, Father! 01:11:38 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂. Have a good retreat🙏 01:11:39 Jeff O.: Many blessings on your time there!! 01:11:49 Lori Hatala: and i will be guilty of jealousy 01:11:53 Susanna Joy: Praying for you.🙏🏻 01:11:55 Wayne: Replying to "Father, what is the ..." good question 01:11:56 Art iPhone: Prayers!! 01:12:35 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father! Have a blessed retreat!! 01:12:37 David Swiderski: Safe travels and God Bless you father! 01:12:39 Jeff O.: Thank you Father!
Breaking the night for prayer!! The very idea either never comes into the mind of modern Christians or it sends a shudder through the heart. The idea of limiting something like sleep for the sake of prayer, of humbling the mind and body in such a way on purpose and regularly seems to express a type of insanity. Would I not make myself sick or incapable of working the next day if such a practice were embraced in modern times.
Yet, it is a constant practice throughout the spiritual tradition; to sanctify time and foster an urgent longing within the heart for God that causes the soul to rise, even in the night, to seek him. Admittedly, this may require that we simplify our lives. There is already a frenetic pace in our day-to-day lives; a busyness that is almost suffocating. Such makes the idea of adding night prayer to that seem impossible and even frightening.
One can only come to know the fruit of this through experience. In the stillness of the night, impediments that often plague us throughout the course of the day fall away. Creation itself grows quiet and with it the human heart. Such a heart filled with urgent longing for the Lord will rise eagerly and with joy to taste the sweetness of his presence!
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Text of chat during the group:
00:59:01 Anthony: Perhaps a principle issue I'd reconciling the mind / interior thoughts with the heart / the noetic sentiment of affection for one's true calling. 01:02:04 Kate : Do the Fathers differentiate between vocal prayer and mental prayer, or is that a Western distinction? Is there a recommendation to the kind of prayer that would take place during a night vigil? 01:02:34 Lisa Smith: I find the setting has a huge impact on prayer/ like a noisy city compared to the quiet woods. I find it easiest to pray in a rural solitary place. With minimal distractions 01:03:31 Ann Thelen: what is the best way to discern if waking in the night to prayer is something we are called to? or are we all called to this? Maybe I am overthinking this. 01:06:22 Ann Thelen: fear of failure in this resolve seems to be the thing that immediately presents itself when thinking about rising in the night for prayer. 01:08:42 Lisa Smith: Catherine Daughtery wrote a series called Poustina. I've been meaning to read that. 01:10:38 Wayne: Replying to "Catherine Daughtery ..." I do have a copy of this book 01:10:58 Lisa Smith: Replying to "Catherine Daughtery ..." 🙏 01:10:59 Ambrose Little: I wouldn’t suggest that’s a healthy model! 😄 01:11:07 Rebecca Thérèse: Before the modern era it was common for the night to be divided into "two sleeps". It was really the industrial revolution that ended this practice. 01:11:50 Ambrose Little: Replying to "I wouldn’t suggest t..." Saying that as one who’s helped his wife stay sane through 7 kiddos. It’s not a time we want to extend or further. 01:14:47 Anthony: Another ill effect of the "reformation," particularly the English variety. 01:16:37 Anthony: Yes 01:17:15 Ann Thelen: I appreciate the analogy of nursing the baby. We have five children and the youngest is 7 now. My excuse has been that I will be tired if i get in the night to pray. That analogy shed light on my excuse. It actually spoke to my heart saying "Ann, you've done this before. Don't be afraid of it" 01:20:00 Maureen Cunningham: Susan Wesley would put an apron over her head she 12 children everyone new she was in prayer 01:23:31 Lisa Smith: Thank you Fr. God bless you.🙏 01:23:32 Maureen Cunningham: Blessing Father 01:24:09 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father! 01:24:10 Ann Thelen: Thank you 01:24:11 Dave Warner (AL): Thank you Father! 01:24:20 Steve Yu: Thanks, Father! 01:24:22 Maureen Cunningham: You are to kind of 01:24:25 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:24:43 Leilani Nemeroff: Thanks
With each passing week, as we read St. John’s thoughts on discernment, we begin to see how it touches every aspect of our life. So often we confuse this gift with intellectually analyzing the circumstances around us or internal experiences and feelings or our perception of others’ actions.
Yet discernment is not rooted in our private judgment. Rather, it arises out of union and communion with He who is Truth and Love. We engage in the ascetic life and seek purity of heart in order that we comprehend the truth unimpeded, to see things as God sees them and to see and respond to what he wants us to perceive.
Anything less than this leaves us completely vulnerable. St. John says, “let us watch and see which demon uplift us, which cast us down, which harden, which comfort, which darken, which pretend to communicate enlightenment to us, which make us slothful, which make us cunning, which make us sad, and which cheerful.” It is only in Christ that we have the capacity to see these things. Strength and virtue of any kind comes not from climbing up a ladder of virtue on our own, but rather having Christ live within us. His virtue must become our virtue and his strength must becomes our strength. This is a difficult thing because it means letting go completely of the illusion that we can see the truth of the spiritual realities outside of our relationship with Him. It means being humble.
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00:02:32 FrDavid Abernethy: page 214 number 172 00:26:36 David Swiderski: I struggled with discernment most of my life and got far too intellectual analyizing everything. A wise friend made a comment that helped me- you only need to think of two things- does this lead us closer to God or away from God. 00:27:10 Lisa Smith: Reacted to "I struggled with dis..." with 👍 00:30:31 David Swiderski: My grandfather always said wisdom is absorbed slowly over time while being intellectual is something to grasp. 00:32:37 Jeff O.: julian of norwich seems to say the same thing about affliction going so far as to say to actually pray for it as it is one of the greatest graces of God. 00:36:27 Lisa Smith: Sufficient is the evil of today, Is that what Christ said? 01:02:47 Johnny Ross: God forgives seven times seventy-so long as the will is there 01:03:12 Vanessa: Reacted to "God forgives seven t..." with ❤️ 01:12:15 Kate : At what point and in what circumstances can we make a judgement about a situation? 01:14:50 David Swiderski: Everytime I see arguments on how to make the sign of the cross or taking communion in the hand or on the tongue I feel like both sides want to be right rather than acknowledge each is seeking to get close to God. 01:16:11 David Swiderski: The focus falls to Pride as you mentioned before. 01:19:11 Tracey Fredman: Most recently, Romans 15:1-6 has been quite helpful for me - it's not about pleasing myself, but for building up others and letting go of what I think they should do: St. Paul wrote "... let each of us please our neighbor for the good , for building up. For Christ did not please himself …" 01:23:55 Rebecca Thérèse: God is often presented to us by people who want to control us. 01:24:06 Ambrose Little: Avoid “Catholic” Twitter/X. Social media in general. 01:24:27 sheri: Thanks Father. Gotta go... 01:24:52 Kevin Burke: Thank You Father! 01:25:30 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father! 01:25:36 Jeff O.: Thank you!! 01:25:36 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:25:43 David Swiderski: Thank you!
The fathers continue to speak to us about service and work and the disposition that we are to have in doing it. Our understanding must move from a functional understanding of labor; engaging in it in a way that is determined by private judgment or by the desire for worldly things.
Everything that we do must be tied to our service of the providence of God. In other words, we are responding to the call of Love. The way that the Christian works and responds to the needs of others (as well as the one’s own needs) is tied to our relationship with the Lord. We are given the task of being the guardian of souls; our own and others’. We are to attend to our own needs, trusting that God will provide us with what is needed. We are to serve others without making excuses for our avoidance or negligence in doing so.
We are to seek first the kingdom of heaven. This is what shapes everything for us. We always return to the nest of prayer, there to be nourished upon the love and the grace of God. And it is only from that nest that we step out in response to His call to love and serve others.
So often we fill our life with needless tasks; more often than not to give us a sense of security and safety. Yet to do so draws us away from He who is the Lord of love and the Governor of history; the One who provides for every one of our needs.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:10:07 Ann Thelen: hello everyone. I've been listening to these podcasts for the last year or so. tonight is the first time i've been able to jump in live due to Easter Break. No children's activities. Happy and grateful to be joining you. 00:10:25 Adam Paige: Reacted to "hello everyone. I've..." with 👍 00:10:32 Ambrose Little: Southerner joining early… 00:10:37 FrDavid Abernethy: Reacted to "hello everyone. I've..." with 👍 00:10:41 Lori Hatala: Reacted to "hello everyone. I've..." with 👍 00:18:13 Dave Warner (AL): Reacted to "hello everyone. I've..." with 👍 00:22:01 Steve Yu: Social media has enhanced the spirit of rudeness. I think it has to do with interacting with others in a non physical manner. We gain a certain “freedom” from politeness and respect, in my opinion. 00:22:15 David C: Reacted to "Social media has enh..." with 👍 00:23:54 Carol Roper: Reacted to "hello everyone. I've..." with 👍 00:24:23 Steve Yu: Cultural difference? 00:40:24 Nypaver Clan: Do you think St. Philip got that imagery from St. Isaac? 00:47:28 Susanna Joy: On the previous section: The bird has to hurry back to the nest because the egg needs warmth or the baby bird is hungry and waiting...what stuck with me from the nido image is taking what gleaned from the world and hurty back to care for this tender growing "baby" life within the love Divine...the goodness received from the sheltering nest of the hand of God... 00:51:34 David C: Reacted to "On the previous sect..." with 👍 00:55:23 Erick Chastain: where are we in the evergetinos? 00:55:41 Nypaver Clan: Top of 85 01:04:49 Ann Thelen: Is there a book or something of the sorts that gives a good recommendation for what the structure of what our daily prayer life should look like as someone who is married or taking care of family. Specifically, the amount of time spent in prayer that should be non negotiable. 01:10:48 Ann Thelen: haha 01:12:47 sharonfisher: Thank you — I needed this instruction and I need to heed it. 01:13:06 Lori Hatala: Reacted to "Thank you — I needed..." with ❤️ 01:13:16 Kevin Burke: Me too.. “Prayer is a relationship” 01:13:46 Ann Thelen: Thank you. Thats very helpful 01:16:02 Kevin Burke: Thank you Father, very profound teaching tonight… 01:16:02 sharonfisher: And with your spirit!! 01:16:04 Susanna Joy: When my son was small I was at a retreat, and some were going to devotions while those of us with small ones to the children out on a hike. A community member remarked to me, too bad you cant be in worship...It occured to me that my life with my child is a devotion... 01:16:06 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:16:15 Troy Amaro: Thank You 01:16:20 Erick Chastain: have a good night father 01:16:31 Lisa Smith: God bless 01:16:33 David C: Thank you God Bless all 01:16:40 Susanna Joy: Thank you, Father
Discernment, St. John tells us, arises out of humility. It also allows us to see the value of humility in the spiritual life. It is the virtue above all virtues, that we must cling to in the spiritual battle. The enemy will seek to confuse us in one way or another; by flattery or by seemingly knowing our thoughts and placing ideas before us which then make us fear their control over us. However, discernment and humility, both protect our capacity to live in He who is the truth.
It also allows us to see the truth about ourselves as human beings and our dignity. We are not created with the passions. They rise out of our sin and the distortion of the desire that God has placed in us naturally. It is desire that makes us long for him and the life of virtue and it is anger that allows us to fight the good fight of faith and strike down the evil one and the temptations that are placed before us.
We also find, over the course of time, that discernment allows us to let go of our judgment and what gives us security in the spiritual life and to trust wholly in God. Therefore, when life seems to crumble around us and all seems to be wrapped in darkness, discernment allows us to step forward with trust in God and his love. While it keeps us from acting in rash way it also protects us from false prudence that hides cowardice and lack of courage.
What we begin to see is that any struggle in the spiritual life to overcome the passions, any sacrifice that we make to follow the Lord, promises what is beyond imagination. Even to lose all in this world is to lose nothing if we have Christ.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:06:22 Rachel: Hello everyone 00:11:11 Rachel: lol 00:12:42 Rachel: No one will take me😭 I guess trying to convince people what sinners they are and so need to go to the Holy Annointing as well as drive me was not a good stategy 00:13:28 Rachel: I have been but I went to Mass at noon, and others have other obligations 00:13:42 Rachel: When Rory gets home, Ill try to convince him. LOL 00:14:08 Rachel: He will gladly go. He loves the Byzantine Liturgies 00:17:48 Ambrose Little: I resemble that. 00:31:21 David: Virtue is nothing without the trial of temptation, for there is no conflict without an enemy, no victory without strife.-St. Leo the Great 00:33:09 David C: Reacted to "Virtue is nothing wi..." with ❤️ 00:34:12 mhinckley: incisive anger: I always struggle with being just with it 00:34:36 David C: Reacted to "incisive anger: I al..." with 👍 00:34:39 mhinckley: not to mention charitable 00:40:01 mhinckley: I have always appreciated the use of "thorn" with sin. You never intentionally grasp for a thorn, only things that thorns surround. 00:40:51 David C: Reacted to "I have always apprec..." with 👍 00:42:58 Rachel: no. he is frozen 00:43:03 Lisa Smith: Same here. 00:43:04 Bob Cihak: Me too. 00:43:08 David C: Yeah he was frozen on my screen as well 00:43:29 Rachel: I only have Rens screen 00:43:38 Bob Cihak: Rising from the Frozen! 00:43:43 sprou: Reacted to "Rising from the Froz..." with 👍 00:43:46 David C: Reacted to "Rising from the Froz..." with 👍 00:47:29 David: I always try to remember what Mother Teresa said - I am a little pencil in the hand of God. At least when good flows through me however I often need frequent sharpening and a good eraser when I write :) 00:48:11 David C: Reacted to "I always try to reme..." with 👍 00:49:53 mhinckley: Reacted to "I always try to reme..." with 👍 00:53:40 Bob Cihak: What about St. Paul? "You have fought the good fight." 00:57:29 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Examples?? 00:59:26 David: Would this be something like instead of dwelling on a temptation and agonizing vs. simply casting the thought from our minds in the beginning? 01:00:26 David: Evargius a good example 01:15:38 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:16:13 Bob Cihak: Blessings to you, Fr. 01:16:20 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father! 01:16:21 David: Thank your Father! 01:16:24 Rachel: thank y ou 01:16:25 Jeff O.: Thank you Father! 01:16:25 mhinckley: buona pasqua tutti! 01:16:31 Semai: Oh i joined late 😭 01:16:38 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Blessed Easter! 01:16:41 Mitch: Thanks!
What a beautiful group! Beauty, however, is not only found in the things that are attractive or appeal to our sensibilities. What is beautiful is found in the truth – the truth that speaks to the depths of our hearts and our religiosity. Once again, the fathers speak to us and present to us the gospel in unvarnished fashion.
What is the disposition that we are to have in our service of God and others? If we give ourselves over to task with obedience, then we can be assured that God will provide all the grace that is necessary. If we do these tasks poorly, if we make mistakes, these do not diminish the value of our work. What gives shape to the work is the love and the humility of Christ.
There are so many things that rush to our minds as to why we cannot bear something or why we cannot do a certain work. However, the fathers show us that so often such things are excuses; that is, plausible lies. They are reasonable because they are rooted in the reality of our own weaknesses. They are lies because they do not take into account the grace and the mercy of God. So often when we take up a task we engage in the labor abstracted from Christ. However, if we simply offer that labor to Christ, if we take it up by his grace and for his glory, then it has more value than we could ever imagine.
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00:03:54 FrDavid Abernethy: page 78 00:04:01 FrDavid Abernethy: New Hypothesis Tonight 00:06:45 Arthur Danzi: Hi Fr David 00:07:01 Arthur Danzi: I’m fine, how are you? 00:07:06 Arthur Danzi: My internet connection is poor… 00:29:12 Rachel: yes 00:40:27 sharonfisher: Thank you for the comment that even the monks struggle. My priest, after 2.5 or 3 years, revealed that he, too, sometimes struggles to keep the prayer rule. It was helpful to me to hear that. 00:54:21 Rachel: This is a magnificent passage. It needs to be read very slowly. Finding humility, doorkeeper, etc. This is so rich and multilayered. One can only understand through experience I am sure. 00:55:08 Rachel: No,but I think it needs to be unpacked 00:55:17 sharonfisher: 😂 00:55:29 Tracey Fredman: Experiential understanding is really hard to go through, though. This discussion is really helpful to me this evening. 00:55:49 Rachel: There is more to it..when one finds humility, one finds Christ, but what happens when we become the doorkeeper, or christ becomes the doorkeeper of our heart? 00:58:16 Rachel: He speaks about finding salvation by finding humility. Either way, we learn by experience whether we want to or not. But we may not experience what Our Lord desires that we experience. We may go kicking and screaming instead of finding the humility that the desert fathers speak of. He desire that we experience Himself 00:58:21 Liz D: It is consoling that you have shared this Father, about persecition with the Church, thank you. It can difficult to trust people in the Church when one experienced being persecured from within the Church. Also, to remember to go to Christ first-because sometimes I realize I go to God last for some areas of my life. As if in some things I subconsciously believe I am expected (by God) to go it alone--only turning to Jesus for help when things become nearly unbearable 00:58:39 sharonfisher: Reacted to "He speaks about find..." with ❤️ 00:59:56 sharonfisher: Reacted to "It is consoling that..." with ❤️ 01:00:06 Keith Abraham: Reacted to "It is consoling that…" with ❤️ 01:00:56 Rachel: Oh we can trust them alright! trust them to be very human like ourselves lol 01:01:31 Lisa Smith: My favorite verse is where Christ speaks of faith as a grain of mustard seed. 01:01:56 Rachel: I'm too melancholic for my own good, sorry i will be quiet again. 01:02:13 Rachel: lol 01:04:11 Lisa Smith: lol Amen on the doorkeeper, Fr 01:04:23 Adam Paige: Saint Brother André was a porter 01:05:11 Lisa Smith: not for the socially anxious. 01:07:23 Steve Yu: I love the parable of the mustard seed because Jesus starts by comparing the Kingdom to someone who plants such a seed in a garden. The problem with that is someone would have to be crazy to do that. They grow enormous and quite ugly in my opinion. It would ruin a garden. Isn’t that reflective of the spiritual life? We search for the beautiful garden not realizing that the ugly or inconvenient event may have Christ hidden within. I *think* this is attributable to humility. Christ has us see Him where we least expect Him. 01:09:07 Andrew Adams: Reacted to "I love the parable o..." with ❤️ 01:12:48 Keith Abraham: “Domesticating” Christianity is one of the worst things we can do. 01:12:49 Steve Yu: That went by fast 01:12:56 Rebecca Thérèse: thank you🙂 01:13:37 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father! 01:13:42 sharonfisher: And with your spirit!! 01:13:43 Dave Warner (AL): Thank you 01:13:49 Troy Amaro: Thank You
Discernment is so much more than our analyzing the realities and circumstances around us by the use of intellect and reason. These faculties, as wonderful as they are, have inherent limitations. They are not infinite, nor can they speak of God as he is in himself.
What God begins to show us in the spiritual life is that the more that we enter his love and truth, the more we are drawn into a mystery that is beyond us. Faith is described by many of the Saints as a “dark obscure knowing”. It is God‘s light, his divine light, that pierces through the darkness, and reveals to us the beauty of his love. It reveals (draws back the veil) and shows us that this love is worth everything to pursue and attain. “Love never ends”, the scriptures tell us. Discernment opens the door to that reality and allows us to step towards the beloved who desires to give us all. Our destiny is to move from glory to glory in the never-ending love of God.
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00:07:32 FrDavid Abernethy: page 209 para 139 00:40:44 Daniel Allen: Is the inverse then true? 00:42:28 Amale: What can the demons see or not see within us? 00:46:21 Rachel: The Elder would also know that in turn.. they could merit by true charity towards each other 00:47:33 Rachel: Where despite the feelings of animosity that arose, the monks would then more purely offer charity in the only way they can due to their limited capacity to love purely without unholy attachments 00:47:55 Maureen Cunningham: Father can demons reproduce? i was just wonderfing 00:48:00 Maureen Cunningham: Wondering 00:48:49 Kate : Can the demons hear our confessions to a priest within the context of the sacrament? 00:49:19 Maureen Cunningham: Best News 00:49:25 Jeff O.: Cassian seems to say in his conferences that they cannot reproduce 00:50:23 Amale: Do any souls who go to hell end up becoming demons? 00:51:10 Vanessa: Replying to "Do any souls who go ..." I thought demons were the 1/3 of heavenly beings who went with Lucifer. 00:51:17 Jeff O.: He talks about it in the eighth conference on the principalities 00:51:24 David: In organization studies clicks can start which can create toxic results for teams. 00:51:53 Rachel: It is like the story of the Desert Father who, as soon as he instructed his Spiritual son would quickly leave him 00:52:39 David: We becomes us and them 00:52:51 Rachel: I suppose that was not for the community but purity of heart 01:00:58 David: I have heard a critism of the western church that we try to explain everything while the east embraces mysteries to be contemplated more. When I was younger I wanted the answers the older I get the more I love contemplating mysteries more. 01:01:15 Vanessa: Reacted to "I have heard a criti..." with ❤️ 01:01:28 Jeff O.: Reacted to "I have heard a criti..." with 👍 01:01:57 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "I have heard a criti..." with ❤️ 01:04:08 Daniel Allen: That’s an interesting comment (re poetry), because oftentimes poetry can calm my thoughts, and give me a jumping off point for prayer 01:04:42 Vanessa: Replying to "That’s an interestin..." Psalms 01:05:30 David: The Syrian fathers write most things through poetry as well. 01:05:55 Cindy Moran: This relates to the need for formative spirituality. 01:06:20 Rachel: Gregory Narek 01:06:30 Daniel Allen: Reacted to "Gregory Narek" with ❤️ 01:06:35 Rachel: Pope Francis 01:11:25 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you ☺️ 01:11:40 Rachel: yes 01:11:41 Cindy Moran: Yes 01:11:46 Jacqulyn Dudasko: Thank you! 01:12:24 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father! 01:12:27 Rachel: thank you 01:12:29 Jeff O.: Thank you!! 01:12:29 Cindy Moran: Thank you 01:12:31 Arthur Danzi: Thank you Father 01:12:32 David: Thank you father! May God bless you
We are drawn ever deeper into the subtle manifestations of Avarice and how the demons make use of this passion to draw us into other sins. Indeed, it is a fearsome vice. The evil one can convince us that our identity is dependent on our having a certain objects or money and the security that it seems to offer us. Once we have given ourselves over to this thought, it gradually oppresses the mind and heart of the individual. Our incapacity to discern the truth of avarice’s grip upon us, we lose the ability can see what has enduring value.
Such oppression undermines our commitment to God, others, and the pursuit of the path of sanctification he has set us upon. Suddenly we can no longer see what is good about a godly life and fidelity. We begin to see the weaknesses of others and the failure of a community to reach the ideal. We become hyper-critical. This the Evil One uses psychologically to make our exit from our vocation more acceptable to the mind. He first makes us despise what we once loved. What we once entered into with zeal, we now turn away from with cowardice.
When given over to avarice we find ourselves falling under the control of the demons who continue to torment us; making us more vulnerable to the darkness of other passions. In this particular vice, we see the truth that “sin is its own punishment”. The more we grasp for the things of this world, the more we descend into darkness and ingratitude.
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00:12:18 FrDavid Abernethy: page 69 00:12:30 FrDavid Abernethy: midway down the page. second para 00:13:05 Keith Abraham: Thank you very much! 00:23:09 Anthony: This sounds like what happened in the hundred years prior to the reformation. The vices preceded an explosion leaving the Church and the religious life. 00:46:23 Alexandra: Can avarice be wanting to have control. Control of Knowing everyone's business? 00:50:10 Anthony: This story is funny. Dragons are associated with the avaricious guarding of gold. The serpent is like a mirror for his avaricious state. 01:24:31 Rachel: No career changes according to one's whims 01:30:40 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father! 01:30:42 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 😊 01:30:44 Rachel: Thank you Father and everyone 01:30:51 Dave Warner (AL): Thank you! 01:30:57 Lisa Smith: Thank you Fr 01:30:57 Troy Amaro: Thank You 01:31:12 Kevin Burke: Thank you !
This evening we continued our discussion of discernment;
in particular, developing an awareness of the action of the demons and their attempts to lead us astray. However, John also seeks to make us aware of the fact that it is not only the demons that we have to be aware of but our human nature in its fallen state. We are often weak of will and changeable in our mind. We are filled with contradictions and will often choose that which offers nothing over the love and the mercy of God. We have within certain destructive tendencies that are beyond reason. St. John would not have us over analyze these things but be aware of them so to avoid them and turn more radically toward God when we see them arise within our hearts.
What is most striking in this section of the Ladder is that divine light shines through John‘s own words. The open up reality for us and we see on the horizon our dignity and destiny in Christ so brilliantly that one can only gasp. It creates within the heart an urgent longing to run to the Beloved. It reveals in a fraction of the moment the entire meaning of the ascetical life. It is not about self-perfection or endurance, but rather about Love. It is about acknowledging that what has been fashioned from clay has now been placed and seated upon the very throne of God. Joy!
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00:03:27 Carolus: Good evening Father. 00:03:34 FrDavid Abernethy: good evening 00:13:08 Genesius B: Father Michael of the Eparchy of Parma can only grow a goatee 00:13:36 Genesius B: we still love him though 00:19:18 David: Is this related to as one gets closer to God sometimes the attacks of the demons become stronger and often in different ways? 00:23:46 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: this translations says "greedy and grubby flesh" not corpulence 00:28:18 Genesius B: How can such inquisitiveness lead us to pride? Surely trying to understand Divine Providence can only reveal our own wretchedness? Is it that merely trying to understand is itself beyond us and thus an act of hubris? 00:28:25 Genesius B: and self assetion? 00:34:30 Genesius B: then when gifts are given should we seek to hide them, lest we become prideful in them. I see this in many saints but how does this not violate the Divine command to not hide our light? 00:35:58 Carolus B: Replying to "then when gifts are ..." Or to not burry our talents. 00:55:58 Kate : St. Elizabeth of the Trinity, a French Carmelite saint, wrote, “Let yourself be loved by God.” I often ponder this quote. Why do I run from this love? We do I not allow myself to be loved by God? 00:59:50 Ren Witter: I don’t think, though, that we run from the love of God when it feels like love. I can’t even imagine doing that, honestly. I think we run from what we are taught is the mysterious love of God, because more often than not it feels like something terrifying, or threatening, or even wounding. 01:00:05 Ren Witter: We are told to trust that these things are manifestations of the love of God. 01:02:02 Daniel Allen: Christ says, “everyone when he is fully taught will be like his teacher.” Imitating Christ, and the saints in deed teaches us little by little until we our not like our fallen selves but like Christ. 01:03:41 David: When I used to teach catechism I heard many comments when discussing the saints saying they are not like that or it is not reachable from teens and even my sons. It seems helpful to discuss the whole lives of the saints like the difficulties and sinful past of St. Ignatius. Most writings seem to focus on them being perfect and so special rather than the journey. 01:06:55 Rebecca Thérèse: I find that reading what the saints wrote themselves is very helpful because they're very honest about their struggles and that makes them more relatable to me. 01:08:28 Rachel: Yes, this is true.We are all starving. For Christ. 01:12:55 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: One's image of God is so important - a distorted one gets in the way of living faith truly. This needs to be examined and renovated many times in one's life. Important to see self in God not outside of Trinity/grace. 01:14:30 Andrew Adams: Reacted to " One's image of God ..." with ❤️ 01:16:11 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father! 01:16:11 Cindy Moran: Excellent session...thank you Father! 01:16:12 Jeff O.: Thank you Father!! Good to be with you all. 01:16:13 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:16:13 David: Thank you Father David! 01:16:14 sue and mark: good night
We take up this evening a new hypothesis (VI) dealing with the ownership of property. At the heart of it, however, is the temptation to avarice and the impact that it has upon the spiritual life and upon our commitments to God and others.
The monks relinquishment of property, their embrace of a life of poverty and simplicity, highlights for us the subtle temptations that are involved in our attachment to the things of the world. Where lust and gluttony perhaps fail to satisfy - avarice often step in to test us. It can become something insatiable. The more we amass the more we desire.
Our attachment to things can begin on a very small level. Yet unchecked, it can affect the way that we enter into our relationship with God. We slowly begin to seek our security and identity in things. This, in turn, can make us ever so vulnerable to the demons attack against our commitments. The possession of things can make it seem more plausible to change and alter our life; to pursue another path of salvation, for ourselves, that does not require hardship or that offers more satisfaction. It gives room for our internal instability to drive us away from what challenges us internally to overcome the ego. What begins with a small attachment eventually can develop to the point where a demon tells us that “if stay where we are we the place our salvation in jeopardy. It is better to take what we have, and to create something better in our own judgment.” In this, we often place our own judgment above God’s. It creates an atmosphere of infidelity and strips us of long-suffering.
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00:11:21 FrDavid Abernethy: page 64 00:23:46 Eric Ewanco: 2nd maccabees 00:28:24 Eric Ewanco: Replying to "2nd maccabees" 12:39-45 00:41:56 Michael Hinckley: I know I’m that way about books. Desire for more 00:42:38 Eric Ewanco: Reacted to "I know I’m that way ..." with ❤️ 00:48:28 Eric Ewanco: Replying to "I know I’m that way ..." There is a Japanese term, "tsundoku" (積ん読). This word describes the habit of acquiring books and letting them pile up, without reading them. 00:52:21 John I.: Replying to "I know I’m that way ..." I used to think that reading a lot of good Catholic books would make me very virtuous.... 00:54:39 Eric Ewanco: I can see those worries about the future being very real 00:56:33 Lori Hatala: I have always feared thinking "I deserve". I probably would not like getting what I deserve. 00:57:13 Kate : As an aside, we have a daughter who is a Carmelite nun. When she received the holy habit, all of her hair was cut off. We were given this hair to keep as a momento. She had a beautiful head of hair, but she gave it up with great joy. And now, I think there is more beauty in her Carmelite veil and all it signifies than in her hair. 00:57:21 Tracey Fredman: There's an emotional type of attachment to un-needful things - why is that? Not necessarily security - things like … I don't know, teacups - are hard to part with for some people. I'm very much aware of this in myself and I trying to declutter - it's really hard. 00:58:34 Vanessa: Reacted to "As an aside, we have..." with ❤️ 00:58:51 Jacqulyn: Reacted to As an aside, we have... with "❤️" 01:00:42 Eric Ewanco: There is a tradition, I think in the Romanian churches maybe, at the wedding of the priest saying "You are now each other's crosses" 01:27:51 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you,🙂 sorry I was late. I'm in the UK and forgot about daylight saving time. 01:28:32 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father! 01:28:38 Sophia: 🙏 01:28:45 Kenneth: thank you Father
As we read St. John Climacus, we begin to see discernment as rooted in our relationship with God; a relationship that is founded upon the revelation of God‘s love and the desire that it stirs within the human heart to respond in kind. If we love God, then it is not going to seem to be a burden to us to take every thought captive and bring it before God for his blessing or judgment. Nor is waiting upon the Lord going to be a point of frustration.
Rather, when we love God, we understand that he is going to desire what is best for us. This desire leads him to test our intentions so as to purify them. What God looks for is humility and a spirit of repentance. Faced with our own weakness, and the darkness that sin brings into our life and into the world, we must cling to God and allow him to guide us with his light. Often only one step ahead is illuminated for us. We must be at peace with this if we have faith in him and trust in his love.
Part of what this requires from us is an honest heart; one that avoids distractions and holds fast to innocence. Often our sensibilities can become hardened through our experience of the world, and we lose the capacity not only to be vulnerable to others but to God himself. It has been said that “haste destroys the poet and the saint”. In the face of the frenetic pace of the world, let us hold on to simplicity and silence in order that we might hear the Beloved when he speaks to us.
--- Text of chat during the group: 00:08:06 FrDavid Abernethy: page 206 number 114 00:16:33 Susanna Joy: It can be years and years... 00:16:56 Susanna Joy: ...one must have the patience of Job. 00:27:28 Susanna Joy: I have a friend who says, "Set all your thoughts, words, and actions as flowers at the feet of the Lord." Then whatever the result, the intention is right. 00:28:10 Paul G.: Reacted to "I have a friend who …" with ❤️ 00:30:37 Rebecca Thérèse: Therese thought of herself as a plaything of the infant Jesus so sometimes he would discard her in order to play with something else. 00:32:09 Genesius B.: Would it be imprudent to treat everything as beyond us, or perhaps prudent so we might never overreach? 00:33:35 Susanna Joy: Replying to "Would it be impruden..." There is the riddle ... 00:34:50 Susanna Joy: Replying to "Would it be impruden..." ...we must do our be... 00:42:31 sharonfisher: But how do we deal with the ‘warped souls’ in life as we encounter them and recognize them as too familiar to our circumstances? It seems scary. 00:43:00 Kate : Father, Could you offer any guidance on finding the balance between overreaching in the spiritual life versus not pushing oneself enough? I find it very hard to get the right balance. It is a long, hard struggle. 00:46:23 Anthony: 1. Thanks for explaining the unforgivable sin. 2. No need to fall I to scrupulousity over this sin because concern about it indicates one has not confused good and evil. 3. I like a sentiment by St Paisios you shared on Facebook about keeping a calm soul so the devils can't cast their lines in our soul. 00:51:18 Susanna Joy: Replying to "1. Thanks for explai..." That is such a great... 00:52:20 Susanna Joy: Replying to "1. Thanks for explai..." Fish are tempted to ... 00:52:30 Susanna Joy: Reacted to 1. Thanks for explai... with "❤️" 00:53:10 Carolus B: Replying to "1. Thanks for explai..." Should we avoid holding personal goals, instead endeavoring to only hold the single goal which is the desire of God, regardless of how we feel about the outcome? 00:53:52 Anthony: Hahaha. Yes he might 00:54:07 Paul G.: Reacted to "Hahaha. Yes he might" with 😇 00:54:16 sharonfisher: This is an aside that you may or may not want to read re: what we deign to touch or interact with. I was crossing, on foot, an intersection to the metro station and my luggage got all sideways. This homeless-type fellow ran out and collected my stuff for me and handed it to me on the other side. I gathered a few dollars to give him. I didn’t realize what I was doing when I went to grab the bag handles, but he did — he asked, pointedly, if I was afraid to touch his hand. Apparently, I had avoided contact with him, even after his assistance. I’m ashamed to this day. And I have another story equally shameful. Won’t bore you with it. Point, I think, is to be aware of our own actions, and how others perceive them. 00:55:14 Genesius B.: how do we discern when one malevolently disputes with us, vs one who disputes due to a misplaced but genuine and fervent care for the soul? 00:55:20 Carolus B: Should we avoid holding personal goals, instead endeavoring to only hold the single goal which is the desire of God, regardless of how we feel about the outcome? 01:07:33 Rebecca Thérèse: People admire athletes who train physically from dawn to dusk but if people want to "train" spiritually people think they're mentally disturbed! 01:07:37 sharonfisher: Not sure if Eastern Church recognizes Alfred and Briget and other English saints prior to Great Schism (other than Patrick, perhaps)? 01:07:38 David: I always loved a tradition in northern spain. They celebrate "Tu Santo" or saints day which often is more important or more celebrated than a birthday. These celebration's always explain about the life of the saint. 01:08:24 Art iPhone: Looking forward to the Frances Cabrini movie coming soon. 01:08:33 sharonfisher: Reacted to "People admire athlet..." with ❤️ 01:09:03 Cindy Moran: Teresa of Avila & her young brother tried to run away from home to become martyrs. 01:09:13 sharonfisher: Reacted to "Looking forward to t..." with ❤️ 01:09:18 Joseph Chiappetta: Reacted to "Teresa of Avila & he..." with ❤️ 01:10:16 Carolus B: Replying to "Teresa of Avila & he..." When asked by her parents why she ran away she answered: "I want to see God, and you have to die first." 01:10:38 Anthony: The serious troubles caused by religious nuts make us wary of asceticism 01:11:03 sharonfisher: Fasting could bring one to extremes. 01:11:04 Ren Witter: When I was little I heard the story of a martyr who died being boiled in oil. I used to pray that that would be the one way I wouldn’t be martyred. 01:11:07 Genesius B.: can we go back to 124 briefly 01:11:15 Rebecca Thérèse: A lot of trouble is caused by atheists! 01:11:43 Kate : Who was it who said “I could be a martyr if they kill me real quick?” 01:11:58 Anthony: Replying to "Who was it who said ..." St Thomas more? 01:12:00 Genesius B.: Replying to "can we go back to 12..." how do we ensure our kids have an appropriate upbringing which would best instill these virtues beyond the mere basics 01:14:22 Genesius B.: Replying to "can we go back to 12..." i.e. how do we instill a proper spirit of mortification and humility in our children? 01:14:43 Alice Hirsch: By saying the 12 year St. Bridget prayers, a person can become martyr like. The promise is stated as follows: “The soul who prays them will be accepted among the Martyrs, as though he had spilled his blood for his faith.” 01:14:58 Genesius B.: Replying to "can we go back to 12..." w/o simultaneously being too harsh 01:15:11 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:15:13 Lee Graham: This was a most informative and spiritually strengthening teaching. So glad I attended even though I was not well. Thank you and bless you. 01:15:21 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "By saying the 12 yea..." with 🥰 01:15:45 Lori Hatala: feel better Lee 01:16:20 sue and mark: Reacted to "feel better Lee" with 🙏 01:16:25 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father! 01:16:28 David: Thank you Father! 01:16:28 sue and mark: Reacted to "This was a most info..." with 🙏 01:16:28 Jeff O.: Thank you!! 01:16:31 sharonfisher: And with your spirt!! 01:16:31 Genesius B.: Thank you father 01:16:33 sue and mark: good night 01:16:38 Kevin Burke: Thanks you Father! 01:16:41 Cindy Moran: Thanks Father's
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Text of chat during the group:
00:08:12 FrDavid Abernethy: page 204 number 105 00:46:02 Rebecca Thérèse: I think Teresa preferred the priest to be learned rather than just intelligent because she thought that even holy priests could be misled. A learned priest wuld be better able to communicate the infallible teaching of the Church, in her view. 00:50:33 Michael Hinckley: Re: lack of elders… we miss not having enough monks & nuns available in communities. 01:00:37 Susanna Joy: This is so similar to a practice I learned from muslim friends, where one fasts and prays 3 days begore taking decision, that God may clarify what action one should take...The fast is called istakharra...means the right path. :) 01:03:21 Susanna Joy: It is so good to rest in God's wisdom before taking action. 01:06:32 Michael Hinckley: Modernity and technology have much to blame since many things can be created ex nihilo. Tempts thinking “ye shall be like Gods" 01:10:48 Anthony: Yes 01:10:50 Rachel: Id love to see that 01:11:38 David: I volunteered for catechism but was surprised there was no assignment with a spiritual director and it seemed to become more of a quasi entraining push by those who were the directors by the parish. The focus was keeping the kids coming back and making faith "fun". It seemed so different from my experience here an in Spain. 01:13:42 Susanna Joy: https://youtu.be/LOcCXt1n-fI?si=EGIJbH3UquEgdU0C 01:13:43 Michael Hinckley: Replying to "I volunteered for ca..." Precisely the problem. 01:14:40 Susanna Joy: Here is a beautiful song for you all. "Who puts his trust in God most Just" 01:14:41 Anthony: Pierogi making brings my parish together 01:14:58 Michael Hinckley: TLM communities also see the young coming b/c of lack of “fun” things 01:15:08 Ambrose Little: I’m not “young” and feel more or less that way. 01:15:25 Adam Paige: You’re young at heart, Ambrose ! 01:15:31 Ambrose Little: Reacted to "You’re young at hear..." with 😅 01:15:35 Jeff O.: Reacted to "You’re young at hear..." with 😆 01:15:46 Jeff O.: Reacted to "I’m not “young” and ..." with 👍 01:16:08 Susanna Joy: Reacted to Pierogi making bring... with "❤️" 01:16:17 Michael Hinckley: Gnocchi are pierogis 01:16:20 Rachel: haha I need to go to PA 01:16:54 Rachel: Can activism be another way of intellectualizing the faith? 01:17:08 Susanna Joy: Thank you so much, Father. God bless you.🙏🏻💗 01:17:09 Anthony: Reacted to Gnocchi are pierogis with "😂" 01:17:13 Rebecca Thérèse: thank you🙂 01:17:50 Sophia: Thank you so much fr.Abernethy. God bless you! 01:17:51 Louise: Thanks, Fr. Abernethy! 01:17:55 Jeff O.: Amen, thank you! 01:17:56 David: Thank you father! 01:18:01 Rachel: Thank you Father Thank you evryone
In St. John’s discussion of discernment, he reveals to us the beauty of a human being transformed by the grace of God and living in communion with Christ by removing every impediment within the heart and by constantly crying out to him in prayer. At the very center of this reality is the “eye of the soul”. It is extremely beautiful, St. John explains, and next to the angels it surpasses all things. The angels constantly gaze upon God and the purified eye of the soul, the nous, allows us to contemplate the beauty of God‘s love.
There is also a freedom that comes to the soul through this purification. Our capacity to discern spiritual realities enables us to engage in the warfare with the demons more diligently and to avoid the pitfalls that are set for us. Furthermore, it allows us to understand that there is no such thing as a small sin. If neglected, it can consume the entire person. Likewise, there is no part of our life that we are to take for granted. The eye of the soul allows us to see that each moment is an opportunity for us to respond to God and to others with love; an opportunity embraced or lost. Thus, it is a very high view of the human person that is set before us; a view that allows us to understand the radical communion that exists between each of us and to see our destiny in Christ. Beautiful indeed!
--- Text of chat during the group: 00:29:50 sprou: virtue beyond our ability? 00:50:31 Nypaver Clan: “Familiarity breeds contempt.” My Mom used to say this if we spent too much time with friends. 00:50:54 Vanessa: Replying to "“Familiarity breeds ..." My mom used to say that too lol 00:52:59 Anthony: St Paul, 1 Cor 7 (?) Talks about spouses separating for a bit. 00:53:38 Marypaz Mencos: I’ve been listening to your podcasts for a year, this is the first time I’m able to be in real time with y’all. It’s so good to put faces to all of your voices. God bless you Father, this podcasts have been a blessing to my spiritual life. 00:54:08 Vanessa: Reacted to "I’ve been listening ..." with ❤️ 00:55:16 Amale Obeid: Replying to "St Paul, 1 Cor 7 (?)..." “Let there be spaces in your togetherness, And let the winds of the heavens dance between you.” Gibran Khalil Gibran (Lebanese poet) 00:56:14 Susan M: Reacted to "I’ve been listening ..." with ❤️ 01:05:40 Vanessa: Enjoying this very much tonight. 01:07:43 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Yet St. Basil came back from the desert saying the complete Gospel calls us to include service of others in one's authentic spiritual life... 01:13:27 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Sacrificial intercessory prayer for others is also service of the Body of Christ 01:13:52 Amale Obeid: Reacted to "Sacrificial interces..." with ❤️ 01:18:37 Anthony: That kind of sounds superstitious, like an augury. 01:19:27 Anthony: Morning offering....yes. but there's repentance to a bad start and a possible bad end to a good start. 01:26:08 Maureen Cunningham: Thank you Father from Maureen & Kenneth 01:26:11 Arthur Danzi: That was wonderful. Thank you, Father! 01:26:14 Louise: Thanks, Fr. Abernethy! 01:26:18 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:26:21 Jeff O.: Thank you!! 01:26:21 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father! 01:26:24 David: Thanks Father! 01:26:34 Alexandra K: Thank you Father!
We continued our discussion from The Evergetinos on idleness. What begins to emerge from the wisdom of the fathers is that everything that is part of our life as human beings is filled with meaning and touched by grace. God has ordained that we provide for ourselves by the work of our hands. Furthermore, by this very same work, we are attentive to the needs of others. Work allows us to show charity to others in their needs. Avoiding idleness not only allows us to engage in fruitful labor but helps us to remain focused in our thoughts and avoid temptation.
The fathers also understood that when our work is taken up as from the hand of God, as an act of obedient love, we give ourselves over to it with zeal and attention. We are prevented from falling into laziness. Such an understanding also allows us to engage in work in such a way that others see what motivates us. The intentions of the heart are often revealed in the simple way that we engage in our day-to-day labors. When we love, we take up that work diligently and joyfully. We do not complain or fall into resentment. Nor do we compare our work with others. When we take up our work from God, it frees us from the pitfalls that often plague us on a daily basis. A balance emerges in our life. When our identity is rooted in God then we take up our labor from him and knowing that it is completed by his grace. Work is not what gives meaning to our life. It is love in our hearts that shapes that work.
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Text of chat during the group: 00:15:59 Suzanne: Father, I'm just popping in to let you know I am going offline for Lent. I'll see you after Easter. 00:16:20 FrDavid Abernethy: Replying to "Father, I'm just pop..." ok. God bless 00:16:21 Suzanne: Thank you!!! 00:16:44 FrDavid Abernethy: page 52 top paragraph 00:21:32 Amale Obeid: The toil when working with the mind seems paradoxically heavier than the toil of working with the hands. How might we think about the difference between working the corporate grind versus what the monks consider work? 00:34:45 Louise: A beautiful book about being with God inwardly and with the world outwardly is The Practice of the Presence of God by Brother Lawrence. 00:35:48 Maureen Cunningham: Yes a wonderful book 00:35:50 Anthony: Read it. Supposedly it was a Carthusian work. Very good. 00:56:26 Alexandra K: This is the issue I have while working remote. I really really really don't like it. Need to remember that I should work for God. 00:57:41 Amale Obeid: Reacted to "A beautiful book abo..." with ❤️ 01:16:20 Maureen Cunningham: Do you think they were so hard on Monks because they understood Spiritual Warfare 01:19:44 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:19:49 Maureen Cunningham: thank you many Blessings 01:19:53 Amale Obeid: Thank you 01:20:29 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father! 01:20:36 Sophia: Thank you, Fr 01:20:38 Alexandra K: Thank you for doing this Father! I'll pray for you
As we have discussed, the fruit of humility is discernment. But what is that? Is it simply private judgment, a human wisdom that has deepened over the course of the years?
St. John gradually begins to reveal to us that it is a freedom that emerges from the removal of the impediments of our passions. A sole passion, the desire for God, begins to direct and guide our lives as well as reveal to us the truth about our actions and the realities around us.
Yet, it is humility that must continue to guide and direct this gift of discernment. It is to see things as God sees them only because we are allowing ourselves to trust in His providence in the warp and woof of day-to-day life. Whether we are embattled or at peace, whether we are called to be obedient or to guide others, we must rely upon the grace of God. It is His love, the love of He who is the truth that allows us to comprehend the realities of this world and the world come. Thus, St. John shows us, we can never think of ourselves or the gifts that we experience abstracted from a deep intimacy with the Lord. It is only in Him and through Him that we can live the life to which he has called us and through Him that we who were blind can see!
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Text of chat during the group:
00:18:44 Arthur Danzi: I'm sorry, what chapter are we reading? 00:19:53 Barbara: lost sound 00:19:59 Rebecca Thérèse: no audio 00:30:48 Anthony: Maybe another example is the miser who wears shabby clothes, just to save money? 00:45:18 Cindy Moran: Would oriental catholics call this yin-yang? 00:55:50 Cindy Moran: Replying to "Would oriental catho..." ... 01:03:06 Anthony: Another thing to be careful of is to try observing what is a true state of affairs but to stop short of having unholy judgment or even feelings or inclination to hound something bad out or to resent something. 01:08:23 Carol Roper: Beware the leaven of the pharisees 01:09:21 David Swiderski: I used to waste a lot of time thinking and rethinking about decisions and people. Even doing this I often made bad decisions and was taken advantage by or attacked by people. I now simply concentrate on - does this lead me closer to God or further away from God. I also pay attention to the mood, other things around me much more. 01:11:42 Cindy Moran: Would oriental catholics call this yin-yang? My ? maybe not seen?? My relatives say that all religion is the same... 01:13:03 sam: I think he (John Climacus) also says elsewhere that vainglory has no birthdate but with pride is the mother of all vices. Humility he also says is one of the destroyers of its fruit and source. 01:16:05 Cindy Moran: It's always a struggle for me . They are new age. 01:18:12 sam: Could we say that the all religions are equal idea is from a vainglorious attempt to please everyone and avoid real arguments about ascetical struggle? 01:20:41 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:21:10 Maureen Cunningham: Blessing 01:21:20 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father 01:21:27 David Swiderski: Thank you Father!!! 01:21:29 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father! 01:21:29 Jeff O.: Thank you Father! 01:21:34 Art iPhone: Thank you Father! 01:21:36 Arthur Danzi: Thank you father!
What a blessing it is to read slowly. It allows insights to unfold before our minds and imaginations that we often would not be attentive to due to our typical need to rush. Hurry, most often, comes from the evil one who seeks to undermine our peace. It is lingering over the thoughts of the fathers on idleness that we begin to understand that what they are talking about is not simply avoiding laziness and sloth. They are revealing to us that keeping our focus upon God in mind and body, that is with the whole self, we grow in our capacity to love God and others.
Virtue forms within the soul from engaging in our tasks with love and humility. Our willingness to take up that which is simple and perhaps menial in the eyes of the world and to do so with love is what is seen by God. Pushing a broom, if done with love, draws us to the very heart of God. Whereas imbalance in our labor, whether it is driving ourselves harshly or laziness, makes us lose sight of the glory of God in all things. May we listen well as we sit at the feet of the fathers, so that we might live our lives and engage in our work with minds and hearts fixed on God.
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00:41:21 Rachel: I think it important to be clear that panic attacks when endured with patience, can be meritorious. Putting ones trust in God when flooded with waves of panic. The peace of Christ is a gift of God and I wonder, little by little one will find the peace of Christ within the storm. Patience, will teach one to see. Trust in God, He will reveal Himself in these moments 00:41:56 Steve Yu: Reacted to "I think it important…" with 👍 00:44:59 Susanna Joy: Wow...look at you know, though!!! 00:45:36 Susanna Joy: You totally overcame and are presenting CONSTANTLY! 🙏🏻🌟AMDG... 00:52:08 Susanna Joy: Our work becomes the altarspace... 01:05:26 Suzanne: This is a really good class tonight. 01:06:13 Paul G.: Replying to "This is a really goo…" +1 01:06:19 Andrew Adams: Reacted to "This is a really goo..." with 👍 01:06:34 Sharon Fisher: Reacted to "This is a really goo…" with ❤️ 01:07:36 Sharon Fisher: Agreed - I love the asides to discuss practical application! 01:11:57 Vanessa: Same with Jacinta and Francisco Marto (Lady of Fatima) 01:12:10 Rebecca Thérèse: Therese's mother died when she was only five and she spent her whole life grief-stricken 01:15:30 Suzanne: Great points. 01:16:32 Vanessa: Reacted to "This is a really goo..." with ❤️ 01:17:01 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:17:10 Louise: Thanks, Fr. Abernethy! 01:17:18 Suzanne: Ash Wednesday! 01:17:43 Suzanne: God bless all and God prosper our Lent! 01:18:12 Sharon Fisher: Many thanks! 01:18:18 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father! 01:18:19 Sophia: Thank you so much, fr.Abernethy. God bless you! 01:19:07 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Therese's mother die…" with 😞 01:21:29 Arthur Danzi: Thank you Father! 01:21:31 Steve Yu: I was having similar thoughts before joining tonight! I felt too tired but I’m so glad I was able to make it! Thank God! 01:21:42 Vanessa: These classes are the highlight of my week🙂 Thank you 01:21:50 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank youfor persevering
Where are we in the spiritual battle? Do we understand the virtues that are generally most necessary in the pursuit of virtue? So often in our day, we approach the spiritual life in a piecemeal fashion, gleaning from the writing of saints things that speak to our own particular sensibilities. But are any of these things going to help us address the dominant passions that we struggle with?
We cannot be lazy in the labors of the spiritual life. We are blessed to be able to sit at the feet of the great elders and those who speak from experience. And yet, as with so many things in our day, we would have things come in our own time and in the way that we desire. Christianity overturns our perception of reality. What it means to love, what is truth, all comes into view only through the person of Christ. The shape of the Christian life is cruciform – always involving a dying to self and sin, and rising to new life in Christ. We must cast off the old man in order to put on the mind of Christ. Lacking discernment we may find ourselves being guided by the demons and settling into mediocrity or the embrace of selfishness and sin that merely is an aping of virtue.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:14:14 David Swiderski: Father do you know any good books on vigils? 00:15:56 Sharon Fisher: Would it be instructions for a home vigil service? 00:17:50 Anthony: For the bibliography, cookbooks are important such as "From a Monastery Kitchen" by Bro. Victor-Antoine d'Avila-Latourrette. 00:19:52 Eric Ewanco: With Great Lent on our heels, do you have suggestions for overcoming gluttony and sustaining our fasts? 00:29:26 Andrew Adams: How does one practice the life of obedience as a layperson? 00:30:23 Suzanne: Isaac the Syrian is great on not putting the cart of contemplation before the horse of purification. 00:32:54 Maureen Cunningham: The Monks on Mt Athose are very healthy a Doctor did a study. 00:35:24 Suzanne: Greek food ain't no penace for me! 😄 00:35:38 Vanessa: Reacted to "Greek food ain't no ..." with 😂 00:39:16 Anthony: Our hypochondria is driven by our societal messaging; our avarice is driven by our capitalist presuppositions wealth, usury, over-emphasis on private property. 00:42:54 Maureen Cunningham: I was told that Christ suffers in the broken . 00:43:30 Anthony: And it's hard to go against presuppositions because it feels like you're doing something wrong. 00:47:02 Suzanne: I quit a part time job because of the filthy language and sick behavior of my fellow employees. I did it to protect my soul. 00:54:04 Jeff O.: I’m reminded of a quote from a Benedictine book - “Personal Prayer” - “Our hope is at its greatest when we have absolutely no other means to provide for ourselves than to beg God for help.” When our hope is rooted deeply in our full understanding of our poverty it’s at its strongest/fullest 00:54:20 David Swiderski: I have found hardship to be helpful in gaining detachment from many things and faults. A saint used to say-gold is purifiied in the crucible of life. 00:54:21 Lee Graham: What does “recklessly despised their torture”? 00:55:27 Eric Ewanco: My translation @Lee Graham has "It was this marvelous grace that enabled the souls of the martyrs to rise superior to their torments." 00:56:29 Vanessa: St. Teresa of Calcutta always said we have to see Christ himself in the poor, broken, and suffering. Re-aligns our focus to see the humanity in them. 01:07:40 sprou: is that the language of silence? 01:09:26 Eric Ewanco: Is ignoring the demons an option open to everyone, or does this indicate that one is in a better spiritual position so to speak if one can do this? 01:11:19 Adam Paige: One of the tools of good works in the rule of Saint Benedict is “To dash at once against Christ the evil thoughts which rise in one’s heart.” 01:11:26 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:11:30 Louise: Thanks, Fr. Abernethey! 01:11:42 Suzanne: God bless you all! 01:11:46 Lorraine Green: God bless, thank you 01:12:19 Barbara: Blessed Great Fast!! 01:12:22 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father! 01:12:23 Jeff O.: Thank you! 01:12:24 Sharon Fisher: And with your spirit! 01:12:36 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father
We turn now in the Evergetinos to consider the “avoidance of idleness”. With this, of course, we are compelled to consider the nature of work, and its connection to the spiritual life and our sanctification.
Avoiding idleness is not simply keeping busy - much less busyness. It is something that allows us to prevent the mind and the heart from wandering from He who is the source of life, God. We are not angels. We are called to provide for ourselves and also to provide for the poor. And so it is by the labor of our hands that we not only keep ourselves from becoming distracted - but enable ourselves not to become a burden to others and also to offer charity to those in need.
Furthermore, keeping oneself from idleness also allows for the formation of virtues; obedience, self-control, ordering of the appetites, humility, etc. What is being presented to us, then, is connected to the overall portrait of what it is to be a human being; one whose life is directed completely toward God. The love that we have received and bear within us transforms everything about what it is to be a human being; to suffer, to love, and to work. It is our identity as Christians that must shape our perception of reality.
Text of chat during the group:
00:29:31 Michael Hinckley: Anthony's comment, or rebuke, hits the vainglory 00:35:03 Andrew Adams: What was the name of that commentary on St. Mark again? 00:38:32 Adam Paige: Fire of Mercy, Heart of the Word, the four-volume “Meditations on the Gospel According to St. Matthew” by Erasmo Leiva-Merikakis. 00:38:34 FrDavid Abernethy: Erasmo Merikakis 00:45:57 Michael Hinckley: can't over busyness, lack of focus be acedia 01:05:34 Rebecca Thérèse: The devil makes work for idle hands 01:14:51 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:15:26 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You 01:15:53 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father! 01:16:06 Rachel: Thank you!!
Extraordinary and beautiful! We are currently reading Step 26 from The Ladder on discernment. As St. John begins to unpack things for us, that is, what discernment allows us to perceive about our intentions, our dispositions, how virtue and vice often get mixed together, why prayers sometimes go unanswered, and why demons often will cease their attack for a period of time - - St John also shows us the beauty and the mystery of the human person in relationship to God and as created by God.
God‘s loving care for us, when seen with the clarity of the fathers’ wisdom and experience is enough to make one weep for joy. And this joy fosters a desire for God that, if inflamed, can not only purify us of the passions but transform us in such a fashion that we are drawn into the life of the very Holy Trinity. May God grant us this desire!
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Text of chat during the group:
00:09:49 Carol Roper: St. Anne's? 00:31:05 Cindy Moran: I remember a few times the night before a huge exam I slept w the school book under my pillow LOL 00:43:18 maureencunningham: What is the time frame , if one thinks of this as a long journey or one could be discourage 00:48:24 Kate : There are some spiritual writings that take the form of a colloquy…Fr. Gaston Courtois, for example. How does this fit with the dark knowing of faith, that you mentioned? The writers seem to have such a tangible intimacy with Our Lord. 00:56:29 Susanna Joy: When the Lord Speaks to Your Heart: Daily Devotions (English and French Edition) https://a.co/d/4ZRzjVi 00:56:46 Vanessa: Replying to "When the Lord Speaks..." Thank you:) 00:57:02 Susanna Joy: Divine Intimacy https://a.co/d/2WqoJ5e 00:57:43 Susanna Joy: The links are Amazon links to the books mentioned 01:00:46 Cindy Moran: Are the other 4 kinds of dispassion in this chapter? 01:01:18 Jacqulyn: An excerpt from Pauline Books... https://paulinestore.com/media/productattach/1/7/172412-compressed.pdf 01:02:05 Susanna Joy: Reacted to An excerpt from Paul... with "👍" 01:04:51 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "An excerpt from Paul..." with 🥰 01:06:09 Rachel: yes 01:09:24 Michael Hinckley: Leave Christ for Christ... is the Filippo Neri? 01:09:35 Michael Hinckley: that ... 01:10:04 Adam Paige: Reacted to "that ..." with 👍 01:11:58 Rachel: Our Lord was did not have passions 01:14:18 David Swiderski: I have been reviewing some courses for work on Emotional Intelligence and it is interesting some of the information on nueroplastisity. I keep thinking how this research could learn so much from the desert fathers. In nueroplasticity they often talk about the trigger leading to emotion leading to and action and reptitivity creating behavior. 01:14:50 Adam Paige: Reacted to "I have been reviewin..." with ❤️ 01:20:22 Suzanne: Thank you! 01:21:57 Art: Reacted to "I have been reviewin..." with 👍 01:22:37 Suzanne: To Rachel, passions in the Roman Church are not disordered in themselves, but part of human nature. Our Lord had no disorder in His Body and Soul. But He had human nature. 01:23:06 Lorraine Green: God bless you, thank you Father 01:23:24 maureencunningham: Thank You Father Dave , My husband said thank you too. 01:23:44 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father! 01:23:45 Louise: Thanks, Fr. Abernethy! 01:23:47 Cindy Moran: Excellent session... thank you Father 01:23:52 Jeff O.: Thank you!! 01:23:53 Rachel: Thank you 01:24:01 David Swiderski: Thank you father! 01:24:08 Rachel: LOL thank you 01:24:09 Kevin Burke: Thanks you!
After listening to a multitude of stories from the Evergetinos about responding to insults from others, the only response that one seems to be able to offer is a sigh; not a sigh expressing disbelief but rather wonder. This is the love and the grace that God offers to us at every single moment of our life. A synergy exists between our will (as simple as uttering a “yes” within our hearts to God), and the outpouring of His grace and compassion. Suddenly the unthinkable comes into view through our faith. We see, through experience, the Godly love that is not only offered to us but within us.
One of the things that we often say to ourselves when we sin or when we respond to another who is wounded us is: “I’m only human!” However, these are not just fanciful stories in the Evergetinos but rather signs of what God is capable of doing within the human heart and what he has made us by his grace. Through humbling ourselves, acknowledging the poverty of our sin, we are lifted up to love and show compassion to others as we have received from the Lord.
The Desert Fathers are living icons of the gospel. They reveal to us this love, not primarily through their writings but rather through their lives. We in turn come to understand this not through reading but rather through experience. May God in his mercy draw us into his love and allow us to see him face-to-face!
--- Text of chat during the group: 00:10:43 FrDavid Abernethy: page 37 number 4 00:44:10 Nypaver Clan: Screwtape Letters 00:44:49 Lee Graham: Sounds like CS Lewis’s “Screw Tape Letters” 00:54:03 Louise: How about psychopaths, praying for those damaging psychopaths? They seem pseudo-humans, that is, humans only in form but not in soul. They seem to be a window of the devils. I cannot pray for them. Am I wrong? 00:57:06 Rachel: When we sin, are we even being ehat it truly menas to be human? Even the "small" sins? 00:57:55 Sharon Fisher: So we pray that the Holy Spirit reaches them? That may be all I can muster in some cases. Is it enough? 00:58:31 Rachel: That is a beautiful prayer. 00:59:28 Lee Graham: Let there be peace on earth and let it begin with me. 01:00:05 Lori Hatala: Reacted to "Let there be peace o..." with ❤️ 01:00:39 Vanessa: Reacted to "Let there be peace o..." with ❤️ 01:01:57 Rachel: Imagine a masterpiece that has been defaced. Yet, by grace, God can restore His image in the sinner. 01:02:30 Sharon Fisher: Reacted to "Let there be peace o..." with ❤️ 01:03:38 Tracey Fredman: Jesus asks people in the gospels - he asked Solomon in a dream - and I believe he asks us, "What do you want me to do for you?" We can ask for grace to be able to pray for those who difficult for us to pray for. 01:04:19 Sharon Fisher: Reacted to "Jesus asks people in..." with ❤️ 01:04:24 Vanessa: Reacted to "Jesus asks people in..." with ❤️ 01:06:56 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Let there be peace o…" with ❤️ 01:07:20 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Imagine a masterpiec…" with ☦️ 01:07:31 Rachel: Wow. How beautiful. 01:08:50 Amale Obeid: How do you overcome the fear of needing to work for money to survive when you’re otherwise completely ready to sell everything and follow God and devote your life day in and day out to Him? To honoring him, praising him, praying, reading about him, etc… It has become hard to live in both worlds. 01:15:24 Rachel: I wish I could go! God bless you all 01:15:37 Steve Yu: Replying to "I wish I could go! G…" Same here! 01:16:23 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father! 01:16:24 Louise: Thanks, Fr. Abernethy! 01:16:27 Lorraine Green: Thank you very much! 01:16:28 Sharon Fisher: And with your spirit! 01:16:29 Suzanne: God bless everyone! 01:16:30 Adam Paige: Thank you Father ! 01:16:38 Lee Graham: Brilliant, thank you!!
When reading The Ladder of Divine Ascent, we begin to see that discernment is quite different from what we imagine. It is not simply the use of our reason and judgment to look at the realities around us, to dissect them, and so understand them. Discernment, as described by the fathers, is rooted in the virtue of humility. It is only when we live in He who is Truth that we come to understand the truth about ourselves, the world, and the kingdom.
St. John in particular gives us a multiple examples of how discernment reveals to us the specific qualities of vices, how they manifest themselves and how they are to be remedied. It is curious that we often use our intellectual abilities to avoid reality or to create a certain perception of reality in our minds. It is only humility that allows us to be vulnerable; to expose the deepest part of ourselves to the light of truth. It is this vulnerability and our trust in God and his love that allows us not only to see the truth but to experience the light of it as a healing balm.
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00:07:17 Sr. Simeon: I hate camera! 00:07:35 Eric Ewanco: Reacted to "I hate camera!" with 😂 00:08:23 Adam Paige: Reacted to "I hate camera!" with 📷 00:15:31 Adam Paige: Paragraph 43 - How should one admonish a brother given to talkativeness ? 00:21:25 Barbara: Gabriel Bunge? 00:21:32 Jeff O.: Reacted to "Gabriel Bunge?" with 👍 00:24:36 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Gabriel Bunge?" with 👍 00:24:47 Adam Paige: Gabriel Bunge? Yup ! https://a.co/d/8t9PLU5 00:26:48 Barbara: This translations says "malice" in place of guile. 00:32:55 Anthony: I believe this humility is a reason the Sunday after publican and Pharisee is fast free....so as not to be proud in fasting. 00:43:46 Suzanne: My dilemma has to do with fiducia supplicans. 00:48:53 Suzanne: Much to consider. Thank you! 00:51:26 Barbara: Replying to "I believe this humil..." Actually, in the Eastern Christian tradition, the week after the Gospel of the Publican and Pharisee is a week without fasting so we cannot be proud about our fasting. 00:52:02 Louise: In a psychology experiment, participants had to do nothing for 15 minutes. However, they could prick themselves to create pain if they wanted. One-third of women pricked themselves versus two-thirds of men. These people preferred physical pain to the pain induced by silence. 00:59:58 Celine Fournier: How does one take on an affliction. 01:00:34 Anthony: Perhaps we attribute afflictions to sin as a way of justifying why we will never have afflictions....I'm not a sinner, etc. 01:00:57 Celine Fournier: Yes 01:04:43 Adam Paige: Replying to "In a psychology expe..." In a psychology experiment, participants had to do nothing for 15 minutes. However, they could prick themselves to create pain if they wanted. One-third of women pricked themselves versus two-thirds of men. These people preferred physical pain to the pain induced by silence. https://dtg.sites.fas.harvard.edu/WILSON%20ET%20AL%202014.pdf 01:05:56 Louise: When I gave courses to professionals across the US, I told participants that there are two main taboos in psychotherapy: love and suffering. Participants remained silent as though they knew that they DO avoid experiencing love or suffering while providing psychotherapy. Amazing and sad! 01:08:09 Kate : There’s a growing area of health and medicine that focuses on longevity and slowing the aging process. While this may seem good on the surface, I wonder if this is not good for the soul. 01:11:53 Suzanne: Thank you! 01:12:14 Lorraine Green: God bless you, thank you 01:12:19 Sharon Fisher: Thank you all! 01:12:24 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father! 01:12:25 Louise: Thanks, Fr.! 01:12:25 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father! 01:12:31 Jeff O.: Amen! Thank you! 01:12:32 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
Humility and selfless-love often bears no resemblance to what we hold in our minds as their meaning. It is only seeing these things through the grace that God gives us and what has been revealed to us in Christ that we begin to understand that Christ took upon himself all that is human and its burden. He is Humility. He entered into the depths of our hell and the hell of our sin not only the free us from death, but that we might not experience these things in isolation. In the darkest things of this world there is always the presence of He who is light. When this world offers us no consolation, it is Christ who embraces us.
Humility, then, becomes our willingness to let go of the self and the self-image that we have created in our own minds and that has been distorted by our sin. It means to live in the truth of Christ who is self-emptying love. This will forever be a stumbling block in this world and to the human mind. Only faith can allow us to see the presence of Christ in our midst. Furthermore, it is only this selfless love of Christ within us the can bring healing and hope to others. When faith is reduced to an ideology or philosophy it becomes impotent. We must be willing to go, as it were, where angels fear to tread. We must be willing to enter into the depths of the sorrow of the world. Yet . . . we cannot do this so long as we cling to some worldly image of ourselves or perfection. We must die to self and sin and live fully to Christ. The cure for the human condition is and ever shall be crucified and humble love.
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00:32:47 Michael Hinckley: to your earlier point, my guess is that saints the see being like Christ as an easy equation (1+1) , we see it as algorithms 00:46:03 TFredman: Personal experience with a Trappist monk who was very discerning - and helped to heal many souls, through simply sharing God's love repeatedly, consistently for many years - until the persons began to really believe the honesty in the gift of being loved - life-changing - 00:47:14 TFredman: Tracey 00:50:58 Susanna Joy: Being the presence of Christ's love over time by itself has the power to heal...yes...well said 00:52:56 Susanna Joy: Where 2 or 3 are gathered...there am I in your midst. Christ's presence itself... 00:53:27 Sharon Fisher: This discussion reminds me off a woman who was taken hostage by a gunman — she retrieved her bible and spoke to him. (Baptist, I think, but still . . . ) If folks are interested, here’s the story: https://www.baptistpress.com/resource-library/news/hostage-reads-purpose-driven-life-to-alleged-atlanta-killer/ 00:54:07 Anthony: Replying to "This discussion remi..." I believe I heard th... 00:55:26 Michael Hinckley: Didn't Francis say preach the gospel, use words if you have to 00:55:33 Anthony: That's a Spanish and Neapolitan type of image 01:05:23 Anthony: The multiplicity of my thoughts are showing me the necessity of praying - simple, like Jesus prayer - so as not to be exposed so much and dwell so much on thoughts. 01:06:04 Michael Hinckley: Reacted to "The multiplicity of ..." with 👍 01:06:32 Vanessa: Reacted to "The multiplicity of ..." with 👍 01:08:25 Sharon Fisher: Is there a difference between when God confronts us with situations intended to humble us vs. situations when others exhibit their own free will, and we are unlucky recipients/bystanders? 01:13:28 Rebecca Thérèse: Jesus said that it is necessary that stumbling blocks come but woe to those from whom they come. 01:13:30 Susanna Joy: Thank you so much for leading this class, Father...your comments have been very helpful. 01:14:22 Lorraine Green: God bless you, thank you 01:14:26 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You I am always Blessed from all your teachings 01:14:32 Sharon Fisher: 😃 01:16:02 Sharon Fisher: Reacted to "Jesus said that it i..." with ❤️ 01:16:21 Michael Hinckley: what's your wife's name soI can pray for her? 01:16:25 TFredman: God bless you, Steve, and your wife. 01:16:46 Steve Yu: Replying to "what's your wife's n…" Hi Michael, her name is Ivette Valenzuela-Yu 01:17:14 Michael Hinckley: Replying to "what's your wife's n..." santa pace for her 01:17:30 Steve Yu: Reacted to "santa pace for her" with ❤️ 01:17:46 Michael Hinckley: Reacted to "santa pace for her" with ❤️ 01:18:03 Kevin Burke: Thank you Father.. 01:18:05 Andrew Adams: Thanks Father and thanks everyone for sharing! 01:18:09 mflory: Thank you, Father! 01:18:15 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
Sometimes we are unaware of the treasure that we possess in and through the gift of faith; and also in the living witness and writing of the Saints. As St. John speaks of discernment this treasure is magnified for us and we begin to see how precious their teachings are and the life that God has called us to embrace. Our ability to see the preciousness of these gifts allows us to enter into the life with heartfelt perception. We cannot live with one foot in the world and one foot in the kingdom. Our minds and our hearts must belong to God and we must seek Him above all things.
In great detail, St. John begins to speak to us about the gift of discernment. It is especially important and valuable for those who have the care of souls. To be a skilled physician one must have the experience necessary to apply the appropriate medicine and that which will be healing. It is also for this reason that monastic life has been so important for the life of the church. “Angels are a light for monks, and the monastic life is a light for all men.” They show us how important it is to learn divine truth by toil and sweat. We must give our hearts over to the ascetic life and not squander the treasure.
How quickly one begins to see that we would be wandering blindly without the guidance of the spiritual fathers. Let show our gratitude by our imitation of their zeal.
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00:14:31 FrDavid Abernethy: page 194 number 23 00:33:20 David Swiderski: The devil speaks with a scratching, loud and gnarling voice and calls you by your sin. God calls you by name and his voice like a whisper on the wind. Only with peace and quite can we hear the whisper. - Not who wrote this but heard this from a priest in Spain on a retreat in the Pyrennes. 00:43:43 Sharon Fisher: Fr, please repeat the title of the second book you ref’d? I have the Eastern Monasticism and Future of the Church, but couldn’t write fast enough to get the next one. Thank you! 00:44:30 Anthony: That prejudice for the active life goes back to the "reformation" - I think as a way to justify the reformation. It saw a revival in "josephism" of the 1700s and 1800s 01:05:38 David Swiderski: Where would resentment be placed I have seen despondency and also pride in being a victim. 01:06:58 Sharon Fisher: Just fyi to participants: The level of detail we get w/ Fr. David in discussions about the Fathers’ writings is not found in very many places. I’ll put a plug in for a guided book study on You Tube: St Silouan the Athonite Guided Book Study with Isaac Lampart, written by Archimandrite Sophrony. The videos are hosted by Annunciation Greek Orthodox Church Lancaster, PA. It’s very good; but it’s hard to find the actual book. It took me a few months of monitoring used book sites to get a copy. 01:07:01 mhinckley: that;s virtue signaling, no. Just the other side of the vaingflory coin, no? 01:08:04 mhinckley: despondency and also pride in being a victim. 01:10:16 Sean: Replying to "Just fyi to particip..." I really long for this sort of content now but it's non existent AFIK😢 01:12:40 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You many Blessing 01:12:44 Jeff O.: thank you! 01:13:16 Lorraine Green: Thank you, wonderful retreat! 01:13:23 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father! 01:13:27 Rachel: Thank you. 01:13:27 mflory: Thank you, Father! 01:13:29 Louise: Ha ve good retreat, Fr. ! 01:13:33 David Swiderski: Thank you father! Have a great retreat! 01:13:35 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father...we'll be praying for you 01:13:35 Art: Thank you safe travels 01:13:38 Sharon Fisher: And with your spirit!! Thank you! 01:13:38 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:13:41 sue and mark: yjank you God bless good retreat 01:13:42 Kevin Burke: Thanks
Where is true freedom to be found? How do we recognize it within the human person? The fathers of The Evergetinos reveal it to us in a powerful fashion by speaking to us once again about humility and the manner in which we respond both to insults and to praise.
Freedom comes from clearly seeing where true dignity and identity is found in ourselves and in others. We evaluate ourselves and others often by accidental qualities and external behaviors. As Christians, however, faith is meant to illuminate what we have become in Christ. We are called to something far greater than natural virtue. Grace builds on nature. Even the greatest kindness we could show another person or forbearance in the face of slight or insult is hardly recognizable and comparison to what our response must be in Christ.
With the incarnation life has forever changed as well as our understanding of love and mercy. We cannot allow ourselves the too easy freedom of loving or hating others merely because of what they do or say to us. The only way that we are allowed to respond to another is to love them.
This cannot be an abstract notion for us. We should believe it so deeply, embody it so fully, that “Contrarily, as though they entailed fearful death, the destruction of your soul, and eternal damnation, completely turn away from and despise all love of power and glory, and the desire for the various laudations of men“. I don’t think there is a stronger way of stating this!
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00:45:29 Ambrose Little, OP: Powerful stuff! 00:45:51 Amale Obeid: I’m newly relearning the Christian faith so I apologize if this is off track but it seems to me that the every reaction that is caused between the world or another person and myself is what I take to the vertical of the cross - between me and God. The horizontal between me and others is for their service only. 00:49:49 Vanessa: Goes back to love God and love thy neighbor (that includes love our enemies). 00:57:42 Sean: Is no. 6 against nature, I mean man is hierchical by nature, like troops of apes 01:14:25 Rebecca Thérèse: It seems like sound advice to me and could protect people from abuse by narcissists who try to make others dependent on them for self-esteem. Also cults try to recruit people by love-bombing. Humility and level-headedness can protect from these things. 01:14:30 Amale Obeid: How do we actually practice this? Other than slowing down time so much to allow space for a slower reaction? Or do we ask God for this grace to recognize it immediately in the moment? 01:16:31 Rachel: I am thinking of how really truly seeing the other, and ourselves as living icons, realizing our dignity helps in a way to reign in inflated egos as we realize how it is a pure gift of God, It reigns in the anger that can rise up in reaction to mistreatment by the humbling reality of Whose image we are all made. Also, I wonder, how we approach God, and the Saints, if how we see God, the way we pray, the experience of our life in God affects how we react to praise or insult 01:18:27 Vanessa: Replying to "I am thinking of how..." St. Francis of Assisi talks about how we can go beyond what is natural (feelings towards others) through love of God. A mark of holiness. 01:19:07 Rachel: Reacted to "St. Francis of Assis..." with 😇 01:19:33 Vanessa: Reacted to "Yes, that balance is..." with 👍 01:23:34 Rachel: Replying to "I am thinking of how..." I erased it as you already said what I typed 01:24:03 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂Have a good retreat! 01:24:14 Rachel: Replying to "I am thinking of how..." 😇 01:24:14 Lorraine Green: Thank you Father 01:24:19 Susanna Joy: Thank you so much, Father. Blessings on your retreat. You will be in my prayers. 01:24:56 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father! 01:24:58 mflory: Thank you, Father! 01:25:00 Rachel: Replying to "I am thinking of how..." Thank you! 01:25:09 Louise: Have a great retreat !
A glimmer of light begins to shine through the writing of St. John in regards to the perfection of virtue. John starts by putting before us list of those things that we should focus upon as beginners in the spiritual life or those who have reached an intermediate level. He also puts before us the resolution of those who are advanced; that is, the virtues that one possesses at this level and that they must protect. John is trying to paint with broad strokes the image of life in Christ. As one begins to share in that reality more deeply Christ image begins to manifest itself and we become imitators of Him.
As John unpacks for us the nature of discernment he shows us the things that it allows us to perceive. One of the valuable teachings he offers us is our responsiveness to the grace of God in times of illness. In our infirmity the demons will seek to afflict us on spiritual level. Yet John also shows us that our minds and hearts can be purified at such times and that Christ can cleanse “clay by clay”. In the severity of our illness we can be delivered from certain passions.
These last steps of the Ladder of Divine Ascent must be read closely and slowly. It is solid food upon which we are being fed and a deep wisdom that is being set before us. Glory to God!
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00:07:41 FrDavid Abernethy: page 192 para 17 00:09:03 Rachel: :( 00:26:12 Anthony Rago: Sounds familiar 00:32:19 Sam: Need for fasting particularly during the many periods of discernment has helped many saints and Christians not only tame their passions but clear their minds from any attachments and thus take the path God wants of them. Could it be due to the humble stripping of self from earthly things and abandonment to God's grace, wisdom and mercy? Yes 00:38:12 Michael Hinckley: didn't Augustine say "you pray the most when you say the least and pray the least when you say the most." 00:43:13 Rory: Let, God's grace shine upon my silent faith within my temple of the Holy Spirit revealing your Divine Providence 00:43:31 Vanessa: Reacted to "Let, God's grace shi..." with ❤️ 00:57:35 Maureen Cunningham: Sound like addiction the first part 00:57:59 Anthony Rago: I think it's important for a weakened person to discern what is his weakness versus what is actually a sin or wrong. The devil wears disguises and blames you for it. 01:09:08 Sean: I assume clay is man, but what is the clay that cleanses him? 01:11:49 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: A personal "testimony": a half dozen years ago, I was too sick to get out of bed for several weeks. The consolations and spiritual awareness at this time was so profound for me that I thought I was arriving at a level of illumination that I would never leave. A couple of weeks after recovery, however, I found myself struggling with the same sin. I had not advanced as I thought. But I'm grateful for the consolation. 01:14:28 Rebecca Thérèse: Is it because illness brings us closer to death that we may experience a greater closeness to the eternal? 01:15:45 Lorraine Green: Thank you Father 01:16:09 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: Reacted to "Is it because illnes..." with ❤️ 01:16:30 sue and mark: thank you. 01:16:39 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father! 01:16:40 mflory: Thank you, Father! 01:16:41 Rachel: Thank you 01:16:44 David Swiderski: Thank you father! 01:16:44 Jeff O.: Thank you! 01:16:47 kevin: Thanks 01:16:48 Louise: Thanks, Father! 01:16:50 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:16:56 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Blessed Feast 01:17:02 Kevin Burke: Thanks you Father!
If reading the gospel or reading the Fathers speak to us about walking the path of humility does not turn our life upside down, does not agitate the mind and the heart; and indeed, at times bring us to the place of atheism or the edge of sanity, then it is hard to imagine that it is Christianity that we are considering. We’ve grown so used to a evaluating what it is to be a human being and to live one’s life, the nature of self-esteem and self image, outside the context of the gospel that there is no longer anything recognizable as Christian. Can we even answer the question, “What does it mean to be a Christian?“ Does the anthropology, psychology and spirituality of the desert Fathers find any place within our hearts or our vision of our life in this world?
We see the Fathers willing to go to the depths of earthly hell in their pursuit of humility in order to be raised up to the heights of heaven. They came to understand that when one reaches for heaven by pride, one falls into the depths of Hell. This was not notional for them but real. Is our faith more than an idea? One of the reasons the fathers seem to so freely take this path of foolishness and absurdity is that they began to taste the freedom and the joy of the kingdom that comes through it. Where else do we find identity and dignity that cannot be taken away from us except with and in Christ?
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Text of chat during the group: 00:12:10 Michael Hinckley: FR. I picked up A Guide to Living in the Truth. Thanks for the suggestion 00:12:34 FrDavid Abernethy: The Michael Casey book? 00:12:39 FrDavid Abernethy: on Humility? 00:13:22 Michael Hinckley: Yes 00:14:27 Adam Paige: Reacted to "FR. I picked up A Gu..." with 👍 00:19:55 Lori Hatala: www.ctosonline.org/patristic/EvCT.html 00:20:27 Lori Hatala: for Evergetinos books. 00:26:53 Adam Paige: Reacted to "for Evergetinos book..." with 👍 00:40:08 Michael Hinckley: there is also an intense marketing that bombards of self help (non Christ focused) to recognize as soft attacks... 00:40:31 Vanessa: Reacted to "there is also an int..." with 👍 00:40:49 Carol Roper: His response to the camel driver comment, his happiness, helps me understand the wisdom of the holy fool, who sometimes almost seems to provoke those comments from others. There’s a wisdom in seeing the disapproval of others as protective of one’s soul. I’m thinking of the movie ostrov 00:41:00 Adam Paige: Reacted to "there is also an int..." with 😖 00:42:04 Carol Roper: The island 00:43:15 Eric Ewanco: I think there is truth in the idea that the phenomenon of "low self-esteem" is really a hidden expression of pride 00:45:43 Michael Hinckley: Many times too self deprecating humor or a clamoring of being such a 'sinner" can also be forms of vanity, no? 00:45:51 Adam Paige: Reacted to "The island" with 🥾 00:46:15 Michael Hinckley: I think Dom Lorenzo Scupoli warned against it. 00:51:26 Carol Roper: Reacted to "The island" with 🥾 01:01:53 Carol Roper: But given your previous comment about the tongues, it’s not foolishness it’s truthfulness…humility 01:02:14 Carol Roper: We’re just blind to the truth 01:05:12 Michael Hinckley: Father do you know the greek or latin used when translated to foolish? 01:05:40 Rebecca Thérèse: Being considered a fool by all would bring someone closer to Christ because that person would not be distracted by the esteem of others. It's not so helpful being considered a fool by all if others think they need to fix you because this is also a distraction! 01:05:46 Eric Ewanco: How do we live this rejection of praise out in, say, a corporate or professional environment where praise plays an important feedback role? 01:06:33 Michael Hinckley: Reacted to "Being considered a f..." with 👍 01:07:24 Adam Paige: Replying to "How do we live this ..." How do we live this rejection of praise out in, say, a corporate or professional environment where praise plays an important feedback role? I have the same question, since we're also encouraged to praise others in the professional environment 01:09:52 Sam: Shunning praise in a professional environment especially is hard but comments such as i could've done better help us....+ embracing humiliation or negative feedback... and only relying on + seeking God's mercy is the narrow path we need to walk...praying always ...a good start for us is the Jesus Prayer. 01:10:06 Rebecca Thérèse: Replying to "How do we live this ..." I think there may be a difference between praise and flattery. It's helpful sometimes to have positive feedback to know how well you're performing. I think it's also possible not to react to praise with pride. 01:11:01 Anthony Rago: Again....apprenticeship. The Modern Era's emphasis on souls who are autonomous and blank slates to explore the world on their own has hurt all kinds of religious and secular vocations. 01:11:36 Vanessa: Reacted to "Again....apprentices..." with 👍 01:12:05 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Shunning praise in a..." with 👍 01:12:16 Adam Paige: Reacted to "I think there may be..." with 👍 01:13:13 Michael Hinckley: I need to drop Happy and Holy New Year to you all! 01:15:17 Adam Paige: Father do you know the greek or latin used when translated to foolish? Greek text of Evergetinos Volume II https://drive.google.com/file/d/14g2zvr-CSwHV5qmke5PHGGBAYYzWRNa9/view 01:16:23 Louise: Thanks, Fr.! 01:17:04 Sharon Fisher: And to your spirit! 01:17:05 mflory: Thank you, Father! 01:17:13 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father! 01:17:16 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you, Happy New Year everyone🙂
The fruit of humility is the emergence of discernment. For beginners, it is a true knowledge of themselves. For intermediate souls, it is a spiritual sense that distinguishes what is truly good from what is of nature or opposed to it. For the perfect it is knowledge that one comes by through divine illumination. God illuminates the darkness within by his grace.
St. John begins to define for us the nature of this gift. However, what follows is quite different from how we in modern times think of discernment. So often it does not rise above private judgment or the natural virtue of distinguishing between the nature of things in accord with our intellect. Yet, as mentioned, discernment is a divine gift for which one prepares to receive through the grace of God and the ascetic life.
We must seek to remove every impediment to our having a well formed conscience. Furthermore, we must avoid the traps that the evil one sets for us to draw us back in darkness. We must continue toiling in this fashion until the very fire of God enters the sanctuary of the human heart and renders our proclivity for sin powerless and consumes every fever of lust and movement of passion within us. Knowing that the demons seek to extinguish this light, we must constantly press on in the struggle. We must not believe ourselves incapable of engaging in the spiritual battle but always trust in the action of God‘s grace.
Once St. John defined discernment for us, he begins to lay out the path of education in the spiritual life that is needed. He warns us not to stop with the beginner’s lessons but rather to press on and strive to advance in our understanding. What we must come to value above all things is the science of sciences and the art of arts – that is the wisdom of the fathers. In comparison to our worldly formation, how deeply do we penetrate the treasure of their teachings?
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00:08:59 FrDavid Abernethy: Step 26 page 190 00:09:18 FrDavid Abernethy: On discernment of thoughts, passions and virtues 00:14:54 Sean: Isaac's awesome. 00:15:02 Art: Isaac the Syrian or Life of Repentance and Purity 00:15:32 Vanessa: Replying to "Isaac's awesome." Agreed! 00:16:19 Sean: Replying to "Isaac's awesome." I'm reading it a second time right now, slowly and listening to the old podcast. 00:25:21 Sean: #4. Why would one fall into disbelief upon seeing the supernatural? I would think it would lead one to believe in something more than oneself. 00:25:46 Vanessa: Reacted to "I'm reading it a sec..." with 👍 00:44:59 Sean: It's interesting that he links soul and mind in #11, which he also does in #8. These two are usually seen as separate or at least distinct, with the soul being pure. It's like the mind reflects the soul and the soul can go toward either good or bad. 01:00:22 Sean: pleasures = mud in the story, I would think. 01:18:43 Greg Chura: Thank you, Father! 01:19:52 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:19:53 mflory: Thank you, Father! 01:19:54 Jeff O.: thank you! 01:20:26 Jeff O.: Palamas!
Tonight we concluded our reading of step 25 on humility. I have no other way to describe my experience of reading this step other than the fact that it makes something within the heart leap for joy. For over the past months, what we have been shown is that humility is not simply a virtue that one strives to attain but rather a kind of truthful living that acknowledges God as the source of all.
Beyond that, however, we are shown that humility is part of the very essence of God that has been revealed to us through the incarnation. God shows himself as Holy Humility. In loving us, God comes down to us and takes our life, our identity, our burden upon himself. The sense of lack and incompleteness at the very heart of our lives is filled by the God who comes to us and gives himself to us.
Humility is so often presented to us as a kind of self hatred; whereas, in reality, it allows us to see not simply our weakness and our sin but the love of God with perfect clarity. Above all, St. John tells, us we should strive for humility. It is the narrow way. One must acknowledge one’s smallness in order to receive and participate in the greatness of the love of the one who created us. What better means do we have to do so than the Feast of the Nativity - unto us and child is born!
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00:56:01 Sharon Fisher: Backing up a bit — the fasts can be harmful, physically. I’ve experienced and know of others who had negative physical effects trying to do the prescribed thing. Yet, I haven’t had a priest directly suggest that it can be modified as necessary — but they say it’s not to be taken legalistically. 01:04:12 Ambrose Little, OP: Transfers liquid from one container to another 01:04:38 Ambrose Little, OP: Sucks you up into heaven. 🙂 01:04:40 Art: carries a liquid from a higher level up and over a barrier and then down to a lower level 01:04:49 Mitch: “Waterspout” in the translation in front of me 01:04:52 Sean: I thought of it as like a tornado sucking one up to heavan 01:10:14 Victor: Reacted to "I thought of it as l…" with 👍 01:11:06 Victor: Thanks, Father. Merry Christmas to all! 🎄💐 01:11:11 Daniel Allen: What’s interesting to me is that it seems all other virtues do not by nature exclude pride, a type of natural perfection, only humility excludes pride and why it’s the only virtue that cannot be imitated by the demons as John said. But the difference is that all other virtues can be beautifully acquired, while humility is only received by acknowledgment of our own lack. Our own lack of other virtues even. Does that make sense? If so, while humility may be the God like virtue it is also terrifying. 01:11:25 Brian L: Reacted to I thought of it as l... with "👍" 01:11:46 Jeff O.: Reacted to "What’s interesting t..." with 👍 01:11:48 Vanessa: Reacted to "What’s interesting t..." with 👍 01:15:42 Art: Merry Christmas everyone!! 01:15:43 Lorraine Green: Merry Christmas! Thank you Father 01:15:45 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you. Happy Christmas everyone🙂 01:15:48 Ambrose Little, OP: 🎄 01:15:48 mflory: Thank you, Father! Merry Christmas! 01:15:48 Jeff O.: Merry Christmas! Thank you 01:15:49 TFredman: Thank you, Merry Christmas everyone! 01:15:51 Deiren: Merry Christmas father and everyone! 01:15:58 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Blessed Christmas! 01:16:01 Mitch: Merry Christmas!! Thankyou very much
The stories of the humility of the Saints and monks described in The Evergetinos can be hard to stomach. But if we consume them with the spirit of faith and the desire for God, they will nourish us to everlasting life.
All of them point us to Christ himself - the prototype and standard of all virtue. We are ever so fortunate. It is amazing when you slow down and hear the story, read out loud how impactful it can be. When we can let go of our own critical spirit, when we can suspend judgment and simply allow ourselves to listen with faith then often we come to understand something astounding.
As is so often the case in The Evergetinos, we see that embodying the virtue of Christ, living the gospel concretely, has the capacity to work miracles, to raise the dead, and to give enliven faith within the hearts of others. May the gift of these stories take root in our hearts and produce fruit that is pleasing to God!
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00:09:30 FrDavid Abernethy: page 23 letter B 00:27:30 sharonfisher: Was he relieved of the obligation to tithe or was his tired refused? I don’t think I understand. 00:27:51 sharonfisher: *Or was his tithe refused 00:36:25 Louise: Could we say that, to be made humble, Peter was made to renounce Jesus Christ 3 times as predicted by Our Lord? The proud Peter humiliated himself tremendously by doing so. 00:37:53 Steve Yu: Reacted to "Could we say that, t…" with 👍 00:52:35 Sean: Interesting how the one knew about the scheme by 'spiritual insight'. Isaac the Syrian calls that teoria or basically the soul's knowing, in other words he got this info not by hearing or the body's senses. 01:04:31 Steve Yu: It seems so ironic to me that humiliation can bring us closer to God, and yet (speaking for myself), something that I try to avoid by instinct. It’s as if some of my instincts are programmed against growing closer to Him. 01:05:15 Sheila Applegate: I love this story. The humility to say, "yes, I am a corrupt, sinful person" but, "no, I do not reject God." Even in that horrid weakness of soul. 01:11:30 Lorraine Green: Thank you Father, good night 01:11:43 mflory: Wonderful! Thank you, Father! 01:11:44 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
It is impossible to capture in words the joy that sweeps over the heart when one comes to understand what St. John Climacus is revealing to us about the nature of humility. In this step, he strips away all of our limited, false, or distorted perceptions of humility and reveals it for what it is: a gift of God‘s own self.
After reading Step 25 our understanding of humility is forever changed. We are shown that God reveals the nature of humility by revealing himself to us in his Son. “Humility is Christ’s spiritual doctrine,” St. John tells us. “It is introduced into the inner chamber of the soul by those who are counted worthy of it. It cannot be defined by perceptible words.” Rather, by the grace of God, the heart is purified of the passions and all impediments are removed to our receiving God’s gifts. One of the greatest of those gifts is humility.
This virtue is a participation in the life of God. Whatever we might lose of honor or dignity in the world is nothing in comparison to the joy that Christ offers us through this virtue. “He who humbles himself will be exalted”. We may feel that we are falling into an abyss and losing our identity as we let go of our attachment to the things of this world. However, what we are falling into is actually the abyss of God‘s love. We are letting go of the false self in order that we might be immersed in He who is meaning, He who is truth, He who is reality!
What joy should be ours, St. John tells us: “By this shall all men know that we are God’s disciples, not because the devils are subject to us, but because our names are written in the Heaven of Humility.”
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00:08:00 FrDavid Abernethy: page 185 number 32 00:12:50 Anthony Rago: Fr Christopher Zugger 2 Vol History of Byzantine Catholic Church published by Byzantine Seminary Press 00:34:18 Anthony Rago: This is where nietzche's emphasis of will is important for us 00:35:31 Louise: I resonate with this definition of humility - we owe everything to God. I resonate see less to humility as defined in the Evergetinos as a self-deprecation. The former focuses about God, while the latter focuses on self. 00:40:39 Daniel Allen: How does this conversation about self a basement and not hatred factor in with John talking about the prison earlier? 00:50:50 Anthony Rago: Oh, so to grasp at humility - to be avaricious for it - is masochism? For all good things are actually gifts, not seized upon like a miser? 00:53:37 Jacqulyn: Amen! 00:57:22 Suzanne: According to this understanding, humility, like contemplation, requires that we wait for God. “Expect the Lord, do manfully, let thy heart take courage, and wait thou for the Lord.” 01:00:09 Sean: Are views, the like button and thumbs up the modern methods of mass vainglory? 01:03:27 mflory: I think the story about Symeon is from the Alphabetical Sayings of the Desert Fathers. In the translation that I have, he is called Simon. 01:03:44 Suzanne: Replying to "Are views, the like ..." Yes! 01:03:58 Cindy Moran: I studied 3 yrs with Fr Van Kaam & Dr susan Muto 01:05:40 Nypaver Clan: Is it open to the public now? 01:06:51 Cindy Moran: This is so exciting!! 01:07:04 Jeff O.: Reacted to "I think the story ab..." with 👍 01:13:18 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:13:30 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You Father 01:13:31 Lorraine Green: God bless you, thank you Father 01:13:31 Louise: Thanks, Fr.! 01:13:38 Suzanne: Thank you 01:13:54 Kevin Burke: Thank you Father! 01:14:03 Victor Haburchak: Thanks 01:14:07 Cindy Moran: Great session!! Thank you Father! 01:14:11 Leilani Nemeroff: Thanks! 01:14:13 mflory: Thank you, Father 01:14:15 Jeff O.: Thank you!!
Once again, reading the fathers on humility is humbling. Gradually our eyes are opened to the nature and reality of virtue; not as human reason or understanding grasp, but as it has been revealed to us in Christ and through the gift of His Spirit.
This stands forth most of all in thinking about humility among the virtues. It is not self hatred. It is not self contempt. It is living in He who is Truth. For this reason, both the Evergetinos and St. John Climacus describe humility as the “door to the kingdom” and to participation in the very glory of God. It is also for this reason that we discover that just as the proud feel satisfaction with honors so those who are humble of mind are especially thankful for the attacks and scorn which befall them in this world.
Such things free us from illusion; not only the illusions we have about ourselves but also the illusions that others often form about us. To be thought of as virtuous and holy, when in reality one understands that all is Grace, can be the bitterest of things to swallow. To know oneself as loved with an everlasting love and having been shown the mercy of God makes the thought of evaluating oneself in any measure seem absurd.
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00:05:32 FrDavid Abernethy: page 13 Letter G - Volume 2 00:18:21 Nypaver Clan: What page? 00:42:31 Louise: The Catholic protagonist of the movie entitled ''A Hidden Life'' (2019), a true story, is a beautiful example of humility. In 1943, he did NOT justify why he preferred to be tortured and killed by the SS, his compatriots, than signing an oath to Hitler. His heart belonged to Jesus Christ. His wife, also devoted to Christ, supported his decision despite the difficult hardship this brought to her and her three children. Two contemporary unknown saints! 00:43:07 Adam Paige: Reacted to "The Catholic protago…" with ❤️ 00:43:41 Michael Hinckley: Blessed Franz Jagerstatter 00:44:08 Michael Hinckley: yes that'shim 00:44:26 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Blessed Franz Jagers…" with 👌 00:58:19 Michael Hinckley: how much these storis show you must be prepared to be dressed down 00:58:20 Louise: Isn't the greatest test to stay facing praises? 01:01:26 Michael Hinckley: I can only imagine in the monastic life with having nothing of the world (clothes, possessions, etc.. ) that things like praise risks becoming currency. 01:08:06 Anthony Rago: Having lived in s Calvinist environment, alarm bells are going off in my head about this kind of humility. 01:08:42 Anthony Rago: We have to keep humility In Tension with dignity. 01:08:54 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Having lived in s Ca…" with 😄 01:10:09 Sean: how often is one despised for humility vs. for being beyond the pale of socially accepted behavior, crime, depravity etc. Equating the two seems difficult. 01:10:21 Michael Hinckley: Replying to "Having lived in s Ca..." Great point! 01:10:22 Rebecca Thérèse: It's not easy to know the difference between heartfelt praise and flattery that's intended to manipulate so it's often better not to trust it 01:11:53 Michael Hinckley: One of the greatest deceptions is meekness equates weakness as apposed the fortitude. 01:12:51 Suzanne: I just read something today that said that the purer the heart, the more the soul sees God, and, the more it sees God, the more it understands its own wretchedness. This wretchedness is not a comparison with other men, but with the absolute purity of God. 01:15:25 Michael Hinckley: Reacted to "It's not easy to kno..." with 👍 01:16:21 Michael Hinckley: Reacted to "I just read somethin..." with 👍 01:17:17 Leilani Nemeroff: Dolores Hart https://vocal.media/viva/the-hollywood-actress-who-became-a-nun 01:17:37 Michael Hinckley: what was the book you mentioned again please 01:18:13 Suzanne: Great Stories tonight! Thank you! 01:18:35 Susanna Joy: Thank you, Father. 01:18:41 Lorraine Green: Thank you Father 01:18:46 Louise: hanks!!! 01:18:56 Leilani Nemeroff: Thanks! 01:19:00 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:19:04 Michael Hinckley: good night all
The language that St. John Climacus uses to describe humility and its qualities is striking. In fact, in some ways it becomes unsettling. Unsettling - - because we often approach humility in an abstract fashion; as thinking little of ourselves, acknowledging our poverty and our sin.
What we discover in John’s writing is that humility is of the very essence of God and how God has revealed himself to us. To grow in this virtue is to find ourselves entering into the abyss of God‘s love. As we fall in our own estimation, we are in reality falling into the love and mercy of God. St. John describes humility as the “door to the kingdom”. It is the same way that Christ describes himself. “I am the door.“ Christ is humility and to be conformed to him, to enter into a union of love with him, is to pass into the very pasture of paradise.
Thus, to enter into the monastic life or the Christian life through any other door is to make ourselves thieves and robbers of our own life. In other words, it is to seek to seize for ourselves what only comes to us as a gift from God. While we were still enemies of God, he took our flesh and its burden upon himself, he humbled himself and became obedient in order that we might share in the fullness of his life. As those so redeemed, what other path could we dare travel?
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00:06:42 FrDavid Abernethy: page 182 00:11:55 Suzanne: Amore, Amore!!! 00:28:12 Anthony Rago: Didn't St Paul say he didn't even judge himself? 00:35:38 Suzanne: But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true adorers shall adore the Father in spirit and in truth. For the Father also seeketh such to adore him. 00:36:17 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: The idea of humility of heart will be on the lips, reminds me that it seems to me when I say she or he or you "made me" angry, etc., it's not so much about the other but God shining the light on where He wants to work with me on humility or other aspects of theosis. No one made me but merely revealed where I need God's touch of humility or healing. 00:37:38 Jeff O.: Reacted to "The idea of humility..." with 👍 00:38:05 Suzanne: Reacted to "The idea of humility..." with ❤️ 00:44:53 Suzanne: My take home from what I’ve studied with you so far, is that humility is a great grace, and a participation of God, and not something we can attain solely by our own effort. We do best to work to dispose ourselves to receive it. 00:47:03 Cindy Moran: How would St John Climacus advise us to ask for a raise?...Or just don't do it. 00:47:23 Rebecca Thérèse: The chasm between the holiness of God and fallen humanity is so great, it's impossible not to be humble once someone has perceived it 00:49:20 Suzanne: Reacted to "How would St John Cl..." with 😂 00:49:53 Cindy Moran: Yes I'm serious 00:49:55 Suzanne: Reacted to "The chasm between th..." with 👍 00:58:16 Anthony Rago: I believe a post Communion prayer by St Basil the Great, in the Teal Ruthenian Book, asks God that the Holy Body and Blood be for the healing of our feelings or emotions. 01:03:31 Sean: from St.Basil's post communion Prayer: O Lord who love us all, you died and rose for our sake; and you have given us these awesome and life-creating mysteries for the benefit and sanctification of our souls and bodies. Grant that they may bring about the healing of my soul and body; the defeat of every enemy; the enlightenment of the eyes of my heart; the calming of my thoughts and emotions; a faith that cannot be confounded; a love that does not pretend; a wisdom that overflows; the full observance of your commandments; the increase of your divine grace; and citizenship in your kingdom. Being preserved in your holiness by them, I will remember your love at all times. 01:05:09 Anthony Rago: Reacted to from St.Basil's post... with "❤️" 01:05:20 Sean: yes 01:05:33 Daniel Allen: I get seeing the good in others and not seeking to lift oneself up in comparison to others, but if we examine ourselves constantly or even too often, how do we avoid become neurotic? How do we examine ourselves constantly and remain gentle tand patient to ourselves? 01:06:03 Suzanne: I wonder if a sign of growing humility is the subsiding of hair trigger emotional reactions to things people say. 01:13:12 Ambrose Little, OP: From Unseen Warfare: ‘If a man does not rely on himself but puts his trust in God, when he falls he is not greatly surprised and is not overcome with excessive grief, for he knows that it is the result of his own impotence, and, above all, of the weakness of his trust in God. So his downfall increases his distrust of himself and makes him try all the harder to increase and deepen his humble trust in God.’ Seems like part of not getting down on ourselves and anxious/neurotic is accepting that we are weak and allowing God to fill our weakness with His power. 01:14:34 Suzanne: Reacted to "From Unseen Warfare:..." with ❤️ 01:15:37 Cindy Moran: My apologies if my question seemed flippant about asking for a raise. I suppose that everyone knows now that I've never been able to do it in 60 years of my profession. 01:15:58 Jeff O.: Nicodemus of the Holy Mountain too 01:16:38 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father 01:18:09 Lorraine Green: Thank you Father 01:18:16 Suzanne: Thank you, Father, for your help! 01:18:56 Cindy Moran: Good night to all. 01:18:59 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:19:00 Jeff O.: Thank you! 01:19:06 mflory: Beautiful! Thank you!
In hypothesis 1 of book 2 of The Evergetinos, we continue to hear one story after another of the humility of the fathers. Again and again, what we find emphasized is the willingness to set aside the self and the ego. We cling so fiercely to a sense of self-esteem and religious identity that gives us a sense of value or elevates us in the view of others. However, as with so many of the virtues, we find the monks, loving humility; pursuing it precisely because of what it produces within the soul and the freedom that it brings.
What it produces is not the perfection of virtue as we understand it. By letting go of the self, Christ lifts us up to share in his life and glory. Thus, we find repeated stories of monks trying to hide themselves and any recognition of their holiness by fleeing the company of men. Yet, so often they find themselves discovered because the very glory of God shines forth from their countenance.
The opposite of vice is not virtue, but rather Christ living within us. We put on Christ. We are conformed to him by Grace. If the world is attracted to anything, it is to that reality. The monks understood this. The only thing they feared was being drawn away from the path of humble obedience.
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00:09:58 Suzanne: I found the exact volume we're starting on kindle for $9.99 00:10:10 Steve Yu: Reacted to "I found the exact vo…" with 👍 00:10:22 Steve Yu: Excellent. Thank you! 00:10:53 Suzanne: I tried my mic. It doesn't work. Yes, Amazon kindle. 00:12:14 Suzanne: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZJGFSPL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_d_asin_title_o00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 00:12:45 Steve Yu: Reacted to "https://www.amazon.c…" with ❤️ 00:31:44 Adam Paige: The Kindle version of the Evergetinos is a different translation. I believe this is the one Father is reading from: https://a.co/d/fcClhxD 00:32:38 Suzanne: Replying to "The Kindle version o..." Yes, I enjoy it. 00:33:02 Suzanne: Reacted to "The Kindle version o..." with 👍 00:34:11 Rod Castillo: Litany of Humility 00:35:03 Suzanne: Card. Merry del Val 00:38:03 Rebecca Thérèse: When St John of the Cross was in the final weeks of his life he had to go from is hermitage to a monastery for them to take care of him. He chose to go to Ubeda rather than Baeza because he was known in Baeza and he didn't want the attention his holiness would attract there. 00:45:52 Suzanne: Roman Discipline, Order, and Common Sense. The Church understands both the power of the official worship of the Church and the feebleness of human nature. 01:08:44 Suzanne: Thank you, Father! 01:08:44 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:08:46 Lorraine Green: Thank you FAther 01:09:33 Louise: Thanks, Fr. 01:09:34 Adam Paige: Thanks you so much, Father !
It is a curious thing to be humbled by hearing a saint speak about humility. Yet, this is what happens. In and of itself, it reveals to us how far the human heart can be from grasping not only the nature of the virtue but what God has revealed to us in his only begotten Son.
The Incarnation manifests to us this virtue in its full glory. The word of God, through whom all things have been created, becomes an infant, (infans), that is, “wordless one”. God draws back the veil in order that we might see and comprehend for ourselves the depth of His love and also the life and virtue that we are to embrace as those made in his image and likeness. To embrace Holy Humility, the very life of God, means to let go of our attachment to the things of this world or good deeds accomplished by our own hands. We begin to comprehend with greater clarity and firmness that all is Grace.
To acknowledge this is to die to self and sin; it is, as John describes it, “reposing securely in the casket of modesty”. The humble heart becomes impervious and unmovable to the demons. As a quality of the Divine, it is not something that we can gauge in its perfection. John, however, works to help us understand its distinguishing characteristics. One is struck by the fact that the humility of beginners is as different and distinct from the humility of the perfect as yeast and flour are from bread. Purified by the fire of God‘s love it is freed from all of pride. This is something only God can reveal to us.
God reveals himself to us in and through the gift of faith. We cannot approach him or the truth that he reveals with a consumerists mentality or seek to dissect these realities as we do with so many things in this world. It is His light that reveals the depths of the human heart and it is His Spirit of Truth that draws us in the very depths of God.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:05:33 FrDavid Abernethy: page 181 number 4 00:09:25 David Swiderski: Have you heard about the Holy Resurrection Monestary in Wisconsin. They offer retreats but I just was wondering if they are worthwhile? 00:10:17 Jake: I was there for 3 days, it was a great retreat 00:14:07 Cindy Moran: Antiochian village? 00:36:57 Sharon Fisher: How does one try to take this step if a spouse or close friend doesn’t welcome the transformation we intend to make? You can’t just cut them off; you can be sincere in faith and not burden them with it until they see the (positive) change? 00:37:40 Carol: this discussion reminds me of Isadora from Evergetinos 00:38:32 Carol: and the indignities she embraced 00:38:58 Daniel Allen: It’s startling that the beginning is acceptance of indignity, I tend to see that as the end - or the perfected state. Yet, John says it is the first property. And that’s something. 00:39:52 Suzanne: Why is it that as long as we are alone with God at home, we maintain peace of soul and continuous prayer, but as soon as we get into conversations with others, our restraint goes out the window? For example, I got sucked into a discussion about politics earlier today, and I was unable to detect and prevent anger from arising inside me - ultimately my words took on an angry tone, and I said words I now regret. It’s like all I accomplished this morning with God was stolen from me. Basically, when tested, I fail. 00:40:38 Jeff O.: Reacted to "It’s startling that ..." with 👍 00:43:14 Suzanne: Replying to "It’s startling that ..." Interesting. 00:43:29 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: It seems that within humility there is recognizing that God loves me, in a breathless way. When I'm around someone who genuinely loves me, I tend to love myself more when I'm with them. Feeling loved and loving myself without condemnation. it seems, helps me accept my weakness and need for God. Humility, then, becomes a natural honesty that helps me put down my defenses of my ego and let God do whatever is necessary to make me like Him and united to Him. Then, denying myself and carrying the cross I recognize to be therapeutic and seems to be the most reasonable and honest thing to do. 00:44:54 Sharon Fisher: Replying to "Why is it that as lo..." Same here. Just recently, too. And frequently, too . . . 00:45:23 Anthony Rago: Replying to "Why is it that as lo..." Suzanne, my studies ... 00:45:28 Daniel Allen: I haven’t read her diary but the diary of Elizabeth Liseur may be a good concrete example of what it looks like for one to be trying to live the faith while another one isn’t at all, and how to do that faithfully. 00:46:14 Suzanne: Reacted to "Same here. Just rece..." with ❤️ 00:46:36 Suzanne: Reacted to "Suzanne, my studies ..." with ❤️ 00:46:51 Anthony Rago: Replying to "Why is it that as lo..." Suzanne I wouldn't t... 00:48:02 Suzanne: Replying to "Why is it that as lo..." Fall, and get back up. Never stop. 00:52:04 Sharon Fisher: Replying to "Why is it that as lo..." Proverbs 24:16! 00:55:28 Sharon Fisher: Reacted to "Suzanne, my studies ..." with ❤️ 00:55:37 Kevin Burke: Reacted to "Suzanne, my studies …" with ❤️ 00:57:57 Suzanne: Reacted to "Proverbs 24:16!" with ❤️ 00:59:18 Sharon Fisher: Replying to "How does one try to ..." Followup to the discussion: “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and one’s foes will be members of one’s own household” (Matthew 10:34-36). 01:06:45 Sean: Stephen Hawking: "If we find the answer to that, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason—for then we would know the mind of God." That always struck me as hubris. 01:07:15 Anthony Rago: Also in regard to not prying into mysteries, does this apply to the errors of heretics? And does it apply to the orthodox whose censures might have caused more harm than good (ex. The way we used anathema which had the effect of alienating whole peoples)? 01:09:51 Patrick Caruso: In step 25:7, he says the highest degree includes 'a constant desire to learn'. However in Step 24:29 he says 'If knowledge puffs up most people, simplicity and a lack of learning can perhaps in the same measure humble them.' Is he saying that the path of knowledge is to first learn to be simple through perhaps a lack of learning to bring about true knowledge via humility and only then will we be capable of a purified desire to learn? 01:12:53 Suzanne: I’ve been putting into practice lately, taking all my thoughts to God. It’s really powerful, and it’s leading me to actually speak with Him quietly and intimately about past sins. I sense that there is a deep pride that causes us to withdraw from His gaze, and refuse to reflect upon our sins in His holy sight. Yet He has shown me that He is ardently ready and willing to discuss my sin with me, and make me understand His Providence. This, I think, is going to lead to humility in my soul. 01:15:33 Anthony Rago: Reacted to I’ve been putting in... with "❤️" 01:15:50 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: Reacted to "I’ve been putting in..." with ❤️ 01:17:06 Suzanne: I so appreciate your help! 01:17:59 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father excellent session 01:18:03 Sean: prayers and gratitude Father 01:18:04 Lorraine Green: Thank you Father, good night 01:18:05 mflory: Thank you! 01:18:06 Jeff O.: Thank you!! 01:18:14 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:18:28 Sharon Fisher: And with your spirit! 01:18:29 Kevin Burke: Thank you Father! 01:18:31 David Swiderski: Thank you Father!
We began this evening with page one of the second volume of The Evergetinos. In many ways, we pick up where we left off in the first volume with humility. However, we are given very explicit examples of those who are a model of the virtue. Perhaps it would be better said that they present us with an other-worldly manifestation of the virtue - the Holy Fool.
Such individuals, so driven by the love for Christ, have set aside so completely self-esteem and reputation that their presence reveals the poverty, inadequacy or complete lack of this holy virtue in others; especially those who deem themselves to be religious.
To hear the stories of their lives almost knocks the wind out of the reader. The very presence of their sanctity brings down upon them the scorn and the abuse of others. They embody Christ’s teaching, “You will be hated by all because of my name.” They are hated because they embodied the humility of Christ, who counted reputation as nothing, emptied himself and became a servant, obedient unto death.
It is hard to be in the presence of such individuals. Their hidden sanctity will still speak to the souls of those in their midst and provoke a reaction. The demons who guide and direct our thoughts will seek to make us mock and ridicule them and blind us to their true goodness. Thus, they provide us with a cautionary tale – that in our lesser moments we are capable of mocking the Lord in others, when we hold them in contempt. We are not so far from committing such unholy violence in our hearts, when we lose sight of the dignity of those around us.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:04:02 Leilani Nemeroff: Thank you! I am driving right now. 00:11:45 Suzanne: Can hear a pin drop! 00:12:55 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Can hear a pin drop!" with 📌 00:13:16 Suzanne: Reacted to "Can hear a pin drop!" with ☺️ 00:35:06 Rebecca Thérèse: The thing that people don't understand is that even if she had been a simpleton and their judgement of her was correct, they still shouldn't have treated her like that. "For inasmuch as you did it to the least of these..." 00:36:47 sharonfisher: It’s odd to me that the most holy among us behave this way. 00:36:57 Louise: Was she a victim soul? 00:39:02 maureencunningham: They did not see her 00:40:53 Suzanne: She reflected Christ's attribute of taking upon Himself the sins of mankind. 00:42:49 Lee Graham: No doubt, she forgave all those who abused her, lest they would have to live separated from God throughout eternity 00:43:16 sharonfisher: How is it that she feigned foolishness, 1st para. Was she testing them? 00:43:29 maureencunningham: Did the early church run to be Marty 00:45:33 Anthony Rago: If she were foolish perhaps she was like Brother Juniper, companion of St Francis, very plain kind and simple. Perhaps even a little "touched" but that weakness became a strength by grace. 00:46:44 Suzanne: The Age of the Desert corresponds to the Age of Heresy, post persecution. It's a communal reparation. 00:49:10 sharonfisher: Reacted to "If she were foolish …" with ❤️ 00:58:57 Sean: it would be hard to find someone who "longs to be loathed"...quite the opposite... 01:00:33 Rebecca Thérèse: The problem with being loathed is that people don't just loathe you and leave you alone, they're constantly bothering you with their loathing! 01:01:04 Suzanne: Reacted to "The problem with bei..." with ❤️ 01:05:31 sharonfisher: I so agree, the West sometimes pays less attention to the saints than I would like. But in an effort to provide services that people (families) can actually attend, they have to cut somewhere. 01:07:37 Adam Paige: I think the West has emphasized the temporal cycle over the sanctoral cycle in recent years, but if the Office of Readings and the Martyrology could become more prevalent in the life of the church, that would go some way to helping 01:09:29 Anthony Rago: I was thinking this sounded like the charcoal saint! Didn't Alexander also see Our Lady of Blachernae promising to protect the city from besieging barbarians? 01:11:54 Michael Hinckley: The West tends to get very Thomistic I believe. 01:13:16 Suzanne: Father, is it too late to ask a question about one of your FB posts? 01:13:37 Suzanne: You put up a quote from St. Symeon: “For unless a person has been trained in strict vigilance, so that when attacked by a flood of useless thoughts he tests and sifts them all … he is readily seduced in many unseen ways by the devil.” Presuming there is no human being available to train and guide you in learning to discipline your thoughts, how do you acquire this skill? Is there a book you can recommend that gives practical instruction on how to purify the thoughts? 01:14:17 sharonfisher: Reacted to "You put up a quote f…" with ❤️ 01:14:18 Suzanne: LOL! 01:14:38 Jacqulyn: Reacted to "LOL!" with 👍 01:16:46 sharonfisher: Thank you for not rushing us through this and allowing questions and discussion. So valuable! 01:17:01 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Thank you for not ru..." with ☦️ 01:17:16 Suzanne: Reacted to "Thank you for not ru..." with ❤️ 01:17:30 Sean: the coal carrier reminds me the movie the island 01:17:48 maureencunningham: Thank You Blessing 01:17:48 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:17:53 Adam Paige: Reacted to "the coal carrier rem..." with 👍 01:17:54 Louise: Thanks, Fr. Abernethy! 01:17:58 Suzanne: Great meeting, and God bless you all! 01:18:00 Anthony Rago: Reacted to the coal carrier rem... with "👍" 01:18:03 Lorraine Green: Thank you, Father 01:18:17 sharonfisher: Reacted to "Thank you for not ru…" with ❤️ 01:18:22 sharonfisher: Reacted to "Thank you for not ru…" with ☦️ 01:18:40 Leilani Nemeroff: Thank you. 01:19:06 sharonfisher: And to your spirit!
Elder Porphyrios wrote “whoever wants to be a Christian must first become a poet”. I mention this because the truth of it plays out in St. John’s writing tonight on humility. One indeed must become a poet - one who has the capacity to capture the deepest of mysteries with a few words.
However, what we see in St. John’s writings is that even this capacity fails us when we begin to speak about “Holy Humility” - our call to participate in the very life and virtue of God; “Learn from me, for I am meek and humble of heart.”We must become docile; that is, teachable in the most radical fashion. There must be a willingness on our part to let go of all conceit, prudence, and cunning. What is being spoken of is not simply a natural virtue, but a participation in the divine. It is that which can only be understood through experience.
Such a path will always be challenging because it means letting go of our perception of reality, even religious reality. As God draws us into greater intimacy with himself, we are called to walk along the dark and obscure path of faith. This faith is a kind of knowing, but it is dark and obscure because it is beyond the limitations of intellect, reason, and imagination. To experience God “as he is in himself” means to let go of the boundaries, the foot holds, and the crutches that we have used to move forward in our understanding. It can be a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God: Fearful, precisely, because it means letting go of reality as we have known it.
We can feel as though we are being brought to the edge of insanity and so St. John warns us that we must let go of prudence and its delusion. Prudence often masks a lack of courage. It is a human wisdom that tells us, warns us, not to go to extremes. In this sense, it is good. Yet, it can also be deadly to true faith. It can cripple us with fear and make us choose the path of safety, rather than entrusting ourselves wholly to God.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:14:25 FrDavid Abernethy: Step 24 number 27 page 179 00:15:25 Suzanne: Moment of silence for that pie! Yum!! 00:15:32 Sean: home made cranberry is killer 00:15:44 Suzanne: Replying to "home made cranberry ..." Just made mine! 00:31:20 Anthony Rago: The submission of Christians and Muslims who lost children recently in the Holy Land is a concrete example of carrying a cross. 00:32:13 Anthony Rago: They take it so graciously 00:40:34 Sharon Fisher: Could it be like being wishy-washy, choosing no path? 00:41:02 Cindy Moran: My version reads "cleverness" instead of prudence 00:43:35 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: The reading on our calendar for today was to leave 99 to find one. That doesn't seem prudent 00:44:33 Carol: the widow with the 2 mites is imprudent too 00:57:50 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: Over the years, I have at times imitated humility, but never acquired it. I depend on God to grant me humility as His gift and I hope asceticism and prayer helps me recognize and receive it. 01:00:48 Suzanne: Reacted to "Over the years, I ha..." with ❤️ 01:01:10 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: Sounds like you're saying becoming humble is becoming like Christ. Part of theosis. 01:01:13 Santiago Bua: Before humillity is a decision is a prayer for. Greetings from Argentina 01:01:16 Louise: Humility baffles me. Maybe humility is something like ''I do not know. Only God knows.'' In contrast, pride would be ''I know better than God.'' 01:02:48 Sam: This also reminds me of the need for humility acceptance of spiritual direction as many have fallen along the path to asceticism where pride cones and destroys the child like humility needed through spiritual direction and discernment of guidance or advice 01:04:57 Sean: I practise humility e.g. stepping aside on a narrow walkng path, allowing the other to pass easily or waiting patiently in line saying the Jesus praayer and avoiding the thoughts of 'I'm in a hurry, come on'. I don't know if that makes me humble or making just faking it til i make it. 01:05:03 Alexandra K: You recognize your own pride when you are not looking for humility and it comes to you right in your face. 01:06:59 Christian Corulli: Are there some points in the spiritual life where we need a spiritual director to grow in humility further? 01:08:09 Louise: I am concerned about the diabolic trap of euthanasia offered to people in Canada. Individuals choosing ''medical assistance in dying'' or MAIDS, as part of the ''human dignity to chose,'' are basically saying to God, ''I decide when I die, not You! I chose not to suffer.'' I am afraid that they can only end up in hell. What would the Desert Fathers say? 01:13:49 Anthony Rago: I enjoy a particular craft. To really know it, I have to stop reading, stop being distracted by other crafts, and just work, interacting with the metal and tools. In experiencing this vocation it's an analogy to discovering God. You just have to quit the inaction, focus, and do it....and you grow without fixation on laws, on control, on growing. You just do, and the beauty (& truth & goodness) comes. 01:16:53 Suzanne: Thank you, Father, and Happy Thanksgiving to all! 01:17:00 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: Reacted to "Thank you, Father, a..." with 🙏🏼 01:17:08 Lorraine Green: Thank you Father 01:17:21 sue and mark: Thank you. Happy Thanksgiving. 01:17:41 mflory: Thank you! 01:17:42 Art: Happy Thanksgiving to all! 01:17:46 Sharon Fisher: And to your spirit! Thank you!! 01:17:55 Cindy Moran: Happy Thanksgiving Father! Thank you for great session
Tonight we read the final hypotheses of the First Volume of the Evergetinos. From beginning to end the volume and its teachings are as challenging as they are beautiful.
The focus this evening was on our attachment to the things of this world; whether those things be the praise of men or material objects and clothing. As always the fathers present us with the gospel in an unvarnished fashion. Their ability to touch upon the most subtle aspects of the passions and temptations is extraordinary. Even when we let go of material attachments we can cling to a kind of spiritual raiment. It takes a great deal of time and grace to break loose of the fetters that hold us; our desire for the pleasures of this world, both great and small.
Even the monk can hold on to certain implements or clothing when there is no need for them other than the satisfaction that they offer in the possessing of them. Frugality and modesty in dress should be virtues that we love and cultivate. In a culture where there is an abundance of everything on demand. Our sharing in this has become habitual and it can be overwhelmingly difficult to overcome. What we see in the fathers is the constant reminder to adorn the soul. We are to store up treasure for ourselves in heaven. It is the poor that we have received that become our greatest advocates before the throne of God.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:19:50 FrDavid Abernethy: page 414 00:36:13 Anthony Rago: The Island had a scene regarding the abbot having a coat of which he was too fond. He was eventually glad to be freed of that attachment by the "crazy" monk. 00:37:07 Suzanne: Over the course of my life, I have pretty much ruined every single thing I’ve ever put my hand to, because I simply cannot act except in order to draw praise from my performance. I’m aware of it, ashamed of it, but cannot put this passion to death. I don’t think I’ve ever employed a talent or ability with a pure intention. 00:37:52 Michael Hinckley: reminds me of the story of Alexander Magnus, once offered a cup of water in a time of dryness poured it out saying too much for one, not enough for many. 00:47:16 Anthony Rago: Replying to "Over the course of m..." Perhaps "ruined" is ... 00:49:32 Suzanne: Replying to "Over the course of m..." True, thank you. 00:50:09 Maureen Cunningham: Maybe they were not attached to anything in this world. And had no need for natural things . Only for the heavenly 00:50:51 Anthony Rago: Reacted to True, thank you. with "❤️" 00:51:37 Michael Hinckley: Replying to "Over the course of m..." @Suzanne when we give thanks to others it is also an act of charity. Fr is right magnanimity is a gift we are given to excel, in an orderly fashion 00:51:40 Suzanne: Replying to "Over the course of m..." Father has a good nous. He actually hit the nail on the head. 😇 00:52:22 Suzanne: Replying to "Over the course of m..." Thank you, Michael. 01:00:36 Maureen Cunningham: I have a. Question when I went to Rome I 01:01:15 Michael Hinckley: are not robes (clothes) tools as well. serve purposes, again ordered fashion. That which we labor in is not the wedding garment 01:01:28 Anthony Rago: About not making things you see that you like ....I can see not doing this out of envy. But making something out of love for doing something good and beautiful, or because it is an inherent vocation is a good thing. I started my hobby because I saw a beautiful repousse picture and I just knew I had to make something like that. 01:01:29 Maureen Cunningham: Questions when I went to Rome Saint Peter allot beauty not what the desert Fathers had why so different 01:03:04 Suzanne: Replying to "are not robes (cloth..." In this culture, dressing well is a good work. 01:04:08 Suzanne: Replying to "are not robes (cloth..." Dress like a lady, etc. 01:11:39 Anthony Rago: We live in a society without these reminders and we are pagans 01:12:43 Anthony Rago: I mean, no icons, no images in public....and without these reminders we are pagans 01:13:12 Michael Hinckley: need to drop santa note all 01:13:38 Suzanne: Replying to "About not making thi..." It's true freedom to make something beautiful with a pure heart. 01:15:05 Anthony Rago: Reacted to It's true freedom to... with "❤️" 01:19:59 Louise: My mother used to tell me, ''Louise, if you do something , do it well, as if you are doing it for God.'' I try, I try. 01:20:09 Suzanne: This is a multi-faceted issue. Communism deliberately destroys beauty, and Christendom has beautified every human art form. I believe that beauty is absolutely necessary for public order. 01:20:21 Suzanne: Reacted to "My mother used to te..." with ❤️ 01:21:17 Suzanne: And there's nothing more beautiful than a priest or monk in habit/cassock. 01:21:28 Anthony Rago: Reacted to This is a multi-face... with "👍" 01:23:36 Sharon Fisher: Reacted to "And there's nothing ..." with ❤️ 01:26:35 Sean: I need it and I'm unworthy, that's an interesting take on things. Humility. 01:27:41 Paul: Wow Great Instruction ! Whats next? 01:28:33 Suzanne: Reacted to "Wow Great Instructio..." with 👍 01:29:45 Lorraine Green: Thank you Father 01:30:20 Suzanne: Thank you so much! 01:30:20 Louise: Thanks, Fr. Abernethy! 01:30:30 Sharon Fisher: And with your spirit! Thank you! 01:30:56 Louise: Yvette and Steve in my prayers.
Guile. It is rarely a word that is used in our day; nor one which we use to examine our own minds and hearts. Yet, as St. John describes it, guile has an impact upon our vision of life, God, ourselves, and others. Our vision becomes wholly distorted and perverted. While guile is a kind of intelligence - it is sly and cunning. Understanding, then, is used to manipulate others and circumstances for one’s own benefit. This in turn creates an aversion to humility and repentance. The pretense of religion and religiosity begins to prevail in a person’s life. Reverence and piety becomes a sham. One becomes diabolical, and they use what is good in order to commit evil. It creates within the human heart a love of sin and so makes an individual the companion of the devil.
We are to live upright lives; that is, we are stand upright with our eyes fixed forward toward the life that God has made possible for us. How often we choose the path of beasts; our eyes directed downwards towards the things of this world and the satisfaction of our own appetites. The mind and the heart become sick and incapable of seeing the truth - so deeply have they sunk into the abyss of this unholy cunning.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:17:26 Celine Fournier: Hello I am new to the zoom. 00:18:12 FrDavid Abernethy: page 178 para 20 00:18:44 Walter Viola: First time attending. Been following via YouTube for a year. 00:29:39 David Swiderski: Wouldnt this be what we call today sociopaths? Often highly intelligent but are only able to see this benefits me now and this does not. There is no empathy or concept of a right and wrong. Working with excecutives in several pulbic companies I am convinced this is abnormally high in that group. 00:30:46 Louise: Guile seems to be the modus vivendi of psychopaths, or people I call satanic souls. 00:30:59 Kevin Burke: What is meant by “hindrance to resurrection?” 00:31:19 sue and mark: how would gaslighters come into play with this? 00:31:20 Anthony Rago: Yesterdays Gospel mentioned guile. Christ addresses Nathaniel as an Israelite in whom is no guile, is that to show he was outstanding in a crowd of people with guile? Or is it that he is an excellent specimen of a crowd of honest people? And what does that have to do with sitting under the fig tree? 00:32:38 Louise: If you meet one, go away, leave the scene ASAP. 00:36:02 Louise: Could we say that the ones are the bad seeds, the weeds? 00:36:49 Louise: ''he guile ones'' 00:38:17 Carol: do you think guile can exist more subtly in the hearts of all of us 00:39:38 Maureen Cunningham: Guile is when you plan to hurt another soul. 00:44:01 Daniel Allen: Not to change texts but this makes me think of the wisdom of St Isaac, “above all things love silence”. I tend to regret my words more than biting my tongue 00:44:37 Anthony Rago: This is why Jansenism was so serious. Pure as angels; Proud as devils 00:46:47 Maureen Cunningham: I did see that movie 00:47:06 Cindy Moran: Love that movie 00:48:32 Louise: What is the name again? 00:48:38 Cindy Moran: Jennifer Jones 00:48:40 Rod Castillo: Jennifer Jones 00:48:52 Rod Castillo: Song of Bernadette 01:00:30 Louise: Father, we lost you. 01:00:36 Cindy Moran: Frozen 01:03:09 David Swiderski: A priest in Spain explained this well to me. All churches are filled with stainglass windows of the saints who let the light of God enter into our lives. By struggling we slowly clean our own windows and dark stains to let the light of God to enter into this world and our communities. 01:17:26 Maureen Cunningham: If we are always looking at what is bad in us ? In the same way can gaze at how far we have come closer to Him 01:20:59 Cindy Moran: Fun fact: Jennifer Jones was married to movie mogul studio film executive David O. Selznick [Gone With the Wind] who was born here in Pittsburgh 01:21:08 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:21:28 Lorraine Green: Thank you very much, Father 01:21:37 sue and mark: Thank you 01:21:40 Celine Fournier: Thank you 01:21:49 Louise: Thanks, Fr. 01:22:23 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father 01:22:24 mflory: Thanks you very much, Father! 01:22:31 Jeff O.: Thank you! 01:22:41 David Swiderski: May God bless you father! Thank you.
We are drawing close to the end of the first volume of the Evergetinos. We’ve come to the end of a long journey; but in reality it’s just the beginning for us. The fathers began by having us meditate long upon repentance. This is the starting point. The turning from the self toward God for healing.
Now at the conclusion of the volume our eyes gaze upon the vision of humility. Again, it is not the humility of this world, but the humility of God. It is the humility of a love that empties itself in order to lift others out of their poverty and darkness. It is the love that thinks nothing of the self but seeks only the fulfillment the will of the beloved.
We were shown this evening and number of aspect of this humility. The first is self-reproach. He who seeks the honor of God and finds his identity rooted in God is going to seek nothing of the honor and privileges of this world. We are reminded that “all flesh is as grass and all the glory of man as the flower of grass”. Everything within this world passes away. Why do we cling to it so tenaciously, and yet hold so little desire for the love that searches us out constantly. “Heart speaks to heart.” We let go of everything, including our own ego, in order that nothing might impede our capacity to hear God’s Word of Love.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:45:16 Sharon Fisher: Does that mean that if we were wholly aware of our faults and someone else called them out to us; we’d have already recognized and come to peace with them, and the accusation has no effect or sting? 00:48:43 Sharon Fisher: Turn the other cheek? Just allow them their feelings? 00:49:57 Steve Yu: Questions. Would praying for the spirit of repentance trigger humility? I ask because a constant state of humility seems like a difficult goal for me. 01:03:09 Suzanne: Just having to work in the world is a great opportunity to practice humility. How many times do we draw down upon ourselves the dislike and resentment of co-workers for no discernible reason? 01:14:35 Rory: Yes, heart speaking to heart 01:16:48 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You 01:17:10 Sandy Nelson: Thank you 01:17:17 Suzanne: Thank you! 01:17:28 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:17:29 Sharon Fisher: And with your spirit!! 01:17:30 Lorraine Green: Thank you!
To be simple, guileless, and meek are described by St. John as a habit of soul. Habits form deeply over the course of time and those that we form through negligence in our relationship with God are often very difficult to change. In fact, it would be better to say that they are changed only by the grace of God.
What would our life look like if our speech was unpremeditated? What would our relationships look like if we were free from ulterior motives? To look upon others only with love and to live in the truth through humility is to reshape our experience and vision of reality. Suddenly we begin to see things (and more importantly others) as God sees them. We can look upon the other and be blind to their natural faults or defects as well as their sins. We return to a kind of holy innocence and purity of heart were we never lose sight of the beauty of God’s creation and most especially the beauty of the human person. To give oneself to God is to find within the capacity to give oneself to others, to love without measure, to serve without calculation. May God make it so!
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Text of chat during the group:
00:11:21 FrDavid Abernethy: page 177 para 10 00:19:16 Victor Haburchak: Jesus was often angry with the Pharisees & scribes. 00:36:58 Kate : I find that my attempts at simplicity of life can become rather complex in trying to let go of things in my life. I am flooded with distractions that “seem” necessary at the time but later I realize it was a temptation away from simplicity. I find it hard to navigate towards simplicity. The complexity of simplicity! 00:41:10 Lee Graham: Reacted to "I find that my attem…" with ❤️ 00:43:48 Daniel Allen: That’s me I always want another book and read say 7 at a time. Then I read from St Isaac today that not every good book is beneficial for stillness (or simplicity). Even the good things, in this case a quest for knowledge and understanding, can actually be a distraction. 00:45:55 Kate : Thank you, Father! You cut through the complexity for me. Union with God. 00:46:07 Anthony Rago: Some of it you learn by experience 00:46:17 Jeff O.: Reacted to "That’s me I always w..." with 👍 00:46:34 Rory: Reacted to That’s me I always w... with "👍" 00:46:46 Rory: Reacted to Some of it you learn... with "👍" 00:47:34 Victor Haburchak: Reacted to "That’s me I always w…" with 👍 00:59:04 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: I've often been struck by this saying: It was said of Abba Macarius the Great that he became, according to the writings, a god on earth, because in the way God protects the world, so Abba Macarius would hide the faults he saw as though he had not seen them, and the faults he heard about as though he had not heard of them. Sayings of the Desert Fathers, Macari us the Egyptian 3 2 (PG 6 5 , 273) 01:01:55 Daniel Allen: That’s strikingly beautiful 01:03:50 Victor Haburchak: Replying to "I've often been stru…" Like the Seal of Confession 01:05:05 Victor Haburchak: My pastor often speaks about respecting boundaries 01:06:22 Jeff O.: Reacted to "I've often been stru..." with 💙 01:08:55 Victor Haburchak: Reacted to "I've often been stru…" with 💙 01:11:31 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:11:38 Victor Haburchak: Thanks! 01:11:44 Art: Thank you. 01:11:50 sue and mark: Thank you. 01:12:07 Lorraine Green: Thank you Father! 01:12:19 Maureen Cunningham: Blessings Praying for all 01:12:24 Louise: Thanks, Fr. Abernathy! 01:12:28 Jeff O.: thank you!! 01:12:28 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father 01:12:39 David Swiderski: Thank you father!
What a privilege it is to read the fathers! As we are being drawn by them into a deeper understanding of the virtue of humility, their vision of its beauty opens up before us. It is not something that only reveals the poverty of our sin and need for healing. Humility also reveals that we are made in the image and likeness of God.
We should not see humility then from a negative perspective. It reveals also the highest truth about who we are as human beings. We are destined to share in the fullness of the life of God. Humility does begin by acknowledging the truth about ourselves and our need for healing. Over the course of time it is perfected by the struggles that we undergo and the great losses that we experience. Eventually, however, by the action of God’s grace it is brought to perfection and there exist within us no desire for sin and no lingering element of pride. We begin to see in that moment that humility is one of the qualities of our God. Suddenly our vision of the spiritual life changes. Everything is meant to draw us into the fullness of his life, virtue and love. Thanks be to God!
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Text of chat during the group:
00:02:33 Suzanne: Ave Maria!! 00:02:52 FrDavid Abernethy: Full of Grace 00:03:07 Suzanne: 😇 00:03:37 Suzanne: Father, did you get my email about St. Theophan series? 00:04:07 FrDavid Abernethy: Gee. I don’t know. I’ll have to go back and look. So sorry 00:04:20 Suzanne: Ok! 00:04:34 FrDavid Abernethy: page 403 letter B 00:06:34 Suzanne: Father, have you seen the Russian movie, The Island? 00:06:57 Suzanne: I can't stop watching it! 00:08:03 Suzanne: I love the scene where he cures the attachments of the Abbot. 00:10:16 Suzanne: Mr. Yu, how is your wife? 00:32:33 Eric Ewanco: What does he mean by "discernment"? How might we wound the conscience of our neighbor? 00:34:05 Eric Ewanco: ok 00:36:52 Sean: what do you mean by to know the mind of God? 00:41:29 Louise: Does humility imply that I am ongoingly aware that I am necessarily defective and fallible, even if I try to be virtuous? 00:56:57 Suzanne: Lately I’ve been thinking more and more that we are infected with pride as children, by parents who show too much pride in our accomplishments or abilities. That’s where it begins, and the culture is more than happy to cement it into narcissism. It’s like an evil bond develops between affection and praise – so that affection is sought, not in accordance with nature and grace, but to satisfy pride. One’s heart contracts, no longer able to give itself in charity, because of the demands it places on others to give “excellence” it’s due. 00:58:33 Anthony Rago: This is soft. It's gentle. It's like Dante's Paradise in which love is a force of motion. I like this better than the way Roman Catholics of our time and country - not like the medievals like St Bernard - pass on the Faith. 01:00:11 sharonfisher: Re: earlier tonight - Opening the day with prayer and giving God first fruits is something I can relate to. To this point, I haven’t felt a purpose for early morning prayer (as opposed to prayer any other hour) — this resonates with me. I’m such a novice. Thank you! 01:00:35 Eric Ewanco: I agree with Suzanne. My mother was very proud of me, which fed my ego so much that my arrogance was off the charts. This alienated me from my peers and I never overcame it until high school. I literally didn't learn what the word "humble" meant until I was a teen. I loved her dearly but it was clearly deleterious. God saw fit that she passed away when I was 13, no doubt to spare me from the worst of it (that's terrible to say but as her son I can say it). 01:04:34 Lee Graham: When God reveals our defects of character, there is no shame. 01:05:50 Suzanne: Father said, "Pride isolates." ABSOLUTELY!! 01:13:50 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂. Sorry I was so late, Zoom decided to update! 01:13:52 sharonfisher: And with your spirit! 01:13:55 Lorraine Green: Thank you, Father 01:13:59 David Fraley: Thank you, Father! 01:13:59 Suzanne: Thank you so much for these groups!
A lecture presented at Duquesne University, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, on Tuesday, October 24, 2023. Sponsored by the Department of Catholic Studies.
“We are reading to fast!” This is typically something that we would never say about our study groups. However, as we sit at the feet of St. John Climacus, we come to the realization that we could sit with a single saying for months on end and not fail to be nourished.
We concluded our discussion of Step 23 and the difficulty with blasphemous thoughts. The evil one in his envy will seek to distract us with blasphemous thoughts that come like a flash of lightning before the mind. Our one response should be to lay this great burden upon the Lord, to entrust it to him, knowing that it comes not from our hearts but from the malice of the evil one.
In Step 24 Saint John begins to discuss meekness, simplicity, and guilelessness. As Saint John begins to define it for us, we suddenly experience ourselves as moving too briskly. Meekness is an “unchangeable state of mind, a rock overlooking the sea of anger”. These thoughts alone are enough to alter our view of this great virtue. In the face of the chaos of living in a fallen world or the experience of the hatred and anger of others, meekness becomes a buttress that is unshakable and keeps us from being swept away by touchiness of mind or irritability of heart. Meekness creates the desire for simplicity; to create a place where the Lord will find rest within us. It allows us to maintain dominion over our heart by the simple act of mortifying the intellect and private judgment. In the weeks to come, may we linger along with these thoughts and come to desire this great virtue.
--- Text of chat during the group: 00:01:31 Suzanne: Hello! Happy Feast of All Saints!! 00:01:39 FrDavid Abernethy: to you as well! 00:01:54 FrDavid Abernethy: page 175 para 47 00:03:02 Suzanne: Look! The West gets it! From Vespers for All Saints: 00:03:09 Suzanne: Choréa casta vírginum, Et quos erémus íncolas Transmísit astris, cǽlitum Locáte nos in sédibus. 00:03:52 Suzanne: And the Antiphon from the Magnifcat: 00:03:58 Suzanne: Ángeli, * Archángeli, Throni et Dominatiónes, Principátus et Potestátes, Virtútes cælórum, Chérubim atque Séraphim, Patriárchæ et Prophétæ, sancti legis Doctóres, Apóstoli, omnes Christi Mártyres, sancti Confessóres, Vírgines Dómini, Anachorítæ, Sanctíque omnes, intercédite pro nobis. 00:04:23 Sean: I tried to find it, it's out of 'print', no luck 00:06:44 Rachel: ty 00:09:26 FrDavid Abernethy: page 175 para 47 00:14:59 Art: Hello TY and same to you! 00:25:05 Louise: In my culture of origin, in Quebec, Canada, the French-Canadians swear with the names of God and the Eucharist, even psychologists in supervision with me. I ask them to not do so, but they relapse after a while. I thus decided to offer, inwardly, my apologies to Christ when they swear. Can I do something else? 00:25:55 Louise: I would have to exclude them all. 00:28:38 David Swiderski: When I lived in Spain the same issue most swears blasphemous. I was a teacher so just joked wow you need a thesaurs and have a limited and very poor vocabulary. It seemed to work and get a laugh. 00:31:47 Suzanne: equanimity 00:33:05 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: Learn of Me, for I am meek and humble in heart. It seems, then, that depending on Christ and becoming like Christ transforms us into being humble. So, it seems like it's part of the process of theosis. Is this so? 00:33:37 sharonfisher: How can insecurity be transformed to meekness? I guess I’m asking how to display the strength I feel in Jesus Christ, but the body belies. 00:34:30 Anthony Rago: Something that helps me deal with anger -and bad thoughts - is that any bad thought against a man really reflects on the Lord, the ne Adanm. And any bad thought against a woman really reflects on our Lady, the ideal of a woman. I don't like that so it helps keep the interior life in check, to dash the infants of evil thoughts against the rocks. 00:38:02 sharonfisher: Replying to "How can insecurity b..." Thank you - I think my question was more self-centered (ie, not appropriate!) 00:38:38 David Swiderski: On my door to my room I have a quote which I see when I leave and when I go to bed- (In loving one another, God in us made flesh). I often find I fall short at night but seem more careful the next day. 00:40:08 sharonfisher: Reacted to "On my door to my roo..." with ❤️ 00:40:58 Daniel Allen: This conversation about meekness makes me think of “the kingdom of heaven suffers violence and the violent carry it away” which is very much not being a doormat. So it’s a matter of that violence being directed towards biting our own tongue (or what have you) and not against another. 00:45:09 Suzanne: Fr. Ripperger talks about demons putting negative perspectives on things that are pure illusions, and that get us angry. 00:46:38 Ashley Kaschl: To Suzanne’s point, it’s the cogitative power of the brain that Fr. R talks about, which makes associations, and is why asking the Lord to protect our faculties is so important 😁 00:47:06 Suzanne: Amen Ashley! 00:49:31 sharonfisher: There, that is what I was trying to convey — I feel peace, but the passions and fears overtake. So how to slow or reduce the effect of the physical body that reacts. Apologies if I’m not clear. 00:51:28 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: Meekness as an unmoveable rock, is strength, and much different than the connotation of meekness as self-effacement and highly flexible that I'm used to in our society. that's helpful 00:53:07 Louise: To help myself not engage in frustrations, angry reactions, etc. I am at times gently reminded by God (I believe) to say, ''May Thy will be done.'' If it comes from God, it is then OK by me. 00:53:52 sharonfisher: Reacted to "To help myself not e..." with ❤️ 00:54:10 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: This strength makes more sense that Moses, the leader and prophet of Israel, could be called the meekest of men. 00:55:48 Suzanne: The actor who played Nectarios wonderfully portrayed the strain and violence - yet tempered with real interior peace and steadfastness - experienced in the practice of the virtue of meekness. Also the deep sadness that oppresses the soul in the face of sad injustice. 01:02:46 Anthony Rago: Italian temper here. I've literally seen red. 01:02:59 Suzanne: Reacted to "Italian temper here...." with 😂 01:03:29 Suzanne: Eh Rago!! Romano here!! 01:03:47 Anthony Rago: Reacted to Eh Rago!! Romano her... with "❤️" 01:10:11 Ashley Kaschl: I think I could contemplate these last handful of paragraphs for months if not years! But could we say that God’s meekness is also a facet of His mercy, too? To me, there seems to be not so much a reaching out from God in meekness but a “staying of His hand”, a resoluteness to endure our infidelity. If ever there was Someone worthy of being angry at being wronged, offended, or betrayed it is God and yet He waits and endures our wretchedness while not destroying us but offering us a way back to Him. 01:11:08 Suzanne: Reacted to "I think I could cont..." with ❤️ 01:11:54 Lee Graham: Reacted to "I think I could cont…" with ❤️ 01:14:49 Louise: Have a good ''All Saints Day''! Thanks Father! 01:15:13 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:15:20 Victor Haburchak: Thanks 01:15:20 Suzanne: Thank you so much for all the work you do! 01:15:24 David Swiderski: Thank you father! Have a blessed week! 01:15:35 sue and mark: thank you. 01:15:57 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father! 01:16:02 S Fisher: And with your spirit! 01:16:04 Jeff O.: Thank you Father!
Coming towards the end of the first volume of the Evergetinos, it is clear that we are being nourished upon solid food. During these many weeks, the fathers have been leading us into a deeper understanding of the virtue of humility. It is one thing to understand the definition of humility; even something as clear as “truthful living”. However, it is only in the illustrative stories that the fathers give us that we move from the realm of imagination, personal judgment and reason to see this virtue with the eyes of faith. What we are called to is the perfect humility of Christ; he who sought only to do the will of his heavenly father. Christ sacrifices himself for the sake of love. What we see in the stories is the subtlety with which we focus upon the ego even as we pursue things that are religious. We are presented in particular with a powerful story about Saint Anthony the Great. He is told that a cobbler in the city has reached a level of greater sanctity than he has despite his ascetic rigors. This cobbler saw himself as the least of all the people in the entire city and the most worthy of condemnation and judgment by God. He would tell himself this in the morning and at night. What is significant about this is that he does not compare himself with any other person in acknowledging this truth. Looking at God he can only see his need for mercy and for complete gratitude. Yet Anthony as great as he was and having sacrificed so much still had a question within his heart. Is there anyone out there who has attained a level of greater sanctity? At that moment, Anthony turns his gaze away from God in order to compare himself with others. He loses sight, if only for a moment, of God. To gaze only upon God and his love drives out every element of ego. There is only Christ!
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Text of chat during the group:
00:08:36 FrDavid Abernethy: page 400 para 76 00:09:41 Suzanne: LOL!!! 00:41:23 sharonfisher: I hope everyone knows about the Orthodox Christian Prison Ministry. Poor or wayward folks that end up imprisoned could benefit so much from the work these folks do. I feel like the prison cell could be substitute for a monk’s cell or the isolation of the desert fathers. (Not sure where this fits in the discussion, but seems relevant.) 00:42:11 sharonfisher: AGREE! 00:43:54 Michael Hinckley: St Thomas Moore choose to see his cell in the tower as such I believe. 00:46:24 Suzanne: I think that I've actually made myself sick from self-reproach because of my past. Thirty years of extreme desolation has warped my perception of God's love for my soul. Self-reproach can be a form of self-torture. The desert fathers is the first time anything I've come across has given me courage. 00:48:00 Lee Graham: Hear, read, mark, learn, and inwardly digest. 01:12:13 Sean: Anthony's ego? gosh...he's called Great. 01:16:29 Sean: compare and despair 01:16:55 Steve Yu: Reacted to "compare and despair" with 👍 01:17:29 Maureen Cunningham: How do you not get into a self hate toward you life. did not the church father warn against self pity 01:18:46 Suzanne: Did you see the Russian movie, The Island, about the monk who was tortured by guilt, yet worked miracles? 01:19:17 Maureen Cunningham: Yes I saw movie wonderful 01:19:40 Suzanne: Incredible movie! 01:20:04 Nypaver Clan: Father, at the start of this discussion, you mentioned that the slightest turning toward God fills the heart with great Grace. Likewise, the slightest turning away from God fills the heart with pride. 01:22:01 Maureen Cunningham: Thank you Blessing prayers for you Father 01:22:09 sharonfisher: And with your spirit! 01:22:12 Suzanne: Thank you so much! 01:22:13 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
Pride destroys the one thing that the spiritual person should desire - the unfailing light in the eye of the heart. The ascetic life seeks to remove every impediment to our loving God and being faithful to his will. The moment that we are filled with conceit or self-esteem, our souls, despite having the illusion of wealth, come to know the greatest poverty and darkness. What appears beautiful on the outside is often foul and rotting within. Saint John tells us that a “proud monk has no need of a devil, he has become a devil and enemy to himself.” And so for all of us: Pride undermines every virtue and makes us vulnerable to the most cruel of foes. One is exposed to blasphemous thoughts, even at the time of worship. If we are not constantly reproaching ourselves for our sin and acknowledging our poverty before God, then the enemy draws close and begins to play with the mind and the heart by placing suggestions before us. The presence of these thoughts can lead a person into great despair and make them want to give off of prayer and the participation in the holy mysteries. Therefore, John exhorts us to continue praying to the end and not give up the fight even when we feel overcome. Our prayer must become ever more constant until such thoughts cease.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:02:06 Suzanne: Ave Maria!!! 00:11:02 FrDavid Abernethy: 172 para 26 00:11:37 Suzanne: Is there a link for the readings? 00:24:33 Anthony Rago: This is funny. I grow pomegranates and am not great at knowing when they are ripe. The color can be deceitful to a "newbie." 00:26:59 Maureen Cunningham: Sounds like a sport who could be the strongest but only spiritual 00:32:40 Michael Hinckley: happens to me all the time. 00:36:02 Maureen Cunningham: I love that movie so true 00:41:32 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: 77777777777777777777 00:41:37 sharonfisher: I think of Jimmy Carter (not an a political sense) and his acceptance of God to take him when it’s his time. He seems to feel very comfortable with his end. 00:42:57 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: This translation says: The man ensnared by pride will need God's help, since man is of no use to him. 00:45:39 Maureen Cunningham: It the opposite of the Holy Family 01:04:07 Suzanne: Would kneeling be the Western counterpart to prostrations? 01:09:22 David Swiderski: The prostrations are common in Jewish prayer as well. Early Spanish traditions sometimes one lays face first in the form of a cross similar to priest when ordained 01:10:13 Suzanne: In the Eastern Catholic Church, do the faithful stand during the Liturgy? 01:10:30 Michael Hinckley: you see it at or in TLM parishes at confession 01:11:33 Maureen Cunningham: In the Orthodox Church in Hawaii you stand and they touch the floor many times 01:11:45 sue and mark: Depending on the Adoration Chapel, you can frequently see people prostrating themselves 01:11:54 Suzanne: Very interesting, thank you! 01:12:20 Anonymous Sinner: The touching of the floor is a symbolic reminder that we are dust, and to dust we shall return, and that it is only by the grace of God that do so while praying Alleluia 01:12:53 Michael Hinckley: Reacted to "The touching of the ..." with 👍 01:13:02 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:13:06 Louise: Thanks, Fr.! 01:13:07 David Swiderski: Thank you Father! 01:13:10 sharonfisher: And with your spirit! Thank you! 01:13:21 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!!
Is it possible for us to let go of our private judgment - to let ourselves be led by the Spirit of God into the Truth? As we read the teachings and the stories of the fathers on humility and how this virtue is embodied, the difficulty of letting go of our own perspective on virtue, and what it is must be abandoned. The virtue that we are called to is the virtue of Christ. Once again, we are not called simply to the perfection of natural virtue or what we can attain by human effort. It is by the grace of God alone that we can let go of self-esteem and ego. We will cling to these with fierceness despite having the truth set before our eyes; what we see on the Cross and receive in the Eucharist. We are unwilling to yield the things of this world for that which is eternal - for the pearl of great price.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:17:26 Anonymous Sinner: What page are we on? 00:18:20 Nypaver Clan: 397 00:18:54 Anonymous Sinner: Thank you! 00:19:24 Louise: It reminds me of the Orthodox priest whose life is depicted in the film entitled A Man of God in 2021. 00:19:35 Eric Ewanco: Today I was tempted to respond angrily to someone. I needed to hear this today. 00:21:21 Susanna Joy: Reacted to "397" with 👍 00:23:32 Susanna Joy: Replying to "Today I was tempted ..." Lol...me too 00:25:36 Louise: Psychologically, forgiveness is seen as letting go of anger. Would you say that it is more than this? 00:29:18 Susanna Joy: I came home and a person who has been harrassing and unapologetic was sitting in my kitchen having a happy chat with my dearest friend here in the community. I could even get my tea water to boil...trying to let it go... 00:29:45 Susanna Joy: *could not even 00:30:18 Susanna Joy: Came straight to class 00:33:03 Susanna Joy: Thank you, Father. 00:35:58 Anonymous Sinner: Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with sighs too deep for words. And he who searches the hearts of men knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. 00:36:05 Anonymous Sinner: Romans 8:26-27 00:42:20 sharonfisher: Do you have a good book reference for understanding spiritual warfare? Whether by the Holy Fathers or more current? I have a hard time really getting the concept. 00:43:17 Louise: ''Dominion'' by Fr. Chad Ripperger explains spiritual warfare. 00:43:34 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "''Dominion'' by Fr. ..." with 👍🏼 00:44:19 sharonfisher: Replying to "''Dominion'' by Fr. ..." 🙂 00:44:38 Ashley Kaschl: “Discernment of Spirits” by Fr. Gallagher is good (it’s a purple book) And “Spiritual Warfare and The Discernment of Spirits” by Dan Burke Those are good books to start with 🙏 00:45:33 Nypaver Clan: Was I the only one who thought the demon would enter the Elder since he said HE was the “goats”? 00:46:19 sharonfisher: Reacted to "“Discernment of Spir..." with 😃 00:47:18 Anonymous Sinner: I haven't read it, but my friend Paul Thigpen wrote the book "Manual For Spiritual Warfare", which I have heard is good 00:48:18 sharonfisher: Reacted to "I haven't read it, b..." with 🙂 00:48:52 Suzanne Romano: 😅 00:49:10 sharonfisher: Reacted to "😅" with 😂 00:57:08 Eric Ewanco: Are we sure he *didn't* commit the sin of fornication, in perhaps the sense of in his heart? 01:04:02 Louise: Was this man, by prostrating toward the offender, signifying his surrender to God's will? 01:04:38 sharonfisher: One of the reasons I haven’t been doing prostrations in prayer is that the area rug is knobby and hard on my knees. I need to rethink that reasoning . . . 01:05:13 linda murton: prostration becomes like the groaning when no words sufficed? 01:07:52 linda murton: groaning refered to Abba Siscoes earlier, 01:14:57 Susanna Joy: Thank yoiu, Father.🙏🏻 01:15:01 sharonfisher: And with your spirit! 01:15:07 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:15:08 Suzanne Romano: Thank you! 01:15:35 Susanna Joy: Spirit will guide you 01:15:40 sharonfisher: Tell us about it next time! 01:15:41 Susanna Joy: Will be praying
As we pour through the sayings of Saint John Climacus about pride and overcoming pride, what we see in the Evergetinos and its teaching on humility we see now in the Ladder’s teaching on pride. We are circling around something greater than just an idea. We circle around pride and look at its many facets in order to see how subtle the temptations often are to embrace the illusion that this vice puts before us. The devil will use every means to pull us away from the truth and truthful living. Therefore, Saint John wants us to see every manifestation of the pride in order that we also might apply the remedies that the fathers put before us.
What becomes clear is the need for constant vigilance. We must not allow ourselves to lose sight of God and his mercy and grace or our poverty and sin. Everything good comes to us from the hand of God, and there is nothing that we can attribute to ourselves that is enduring. Christ is truth and so we must strive throughout the course of our entire life to avoid all falsehood. We must not succumb to the father of lies and so find ourselves in his grip or being his plaything. May God be our strength and source of invincible peace.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:26:07 sharonfisher: Maybe a dumb question, but I think of deification as something we acquire (gifted) at the end times. Are we to strive for deification in this worldly life? 00:28:06 Victor: Some theologians speak of realized & future eschatology (now & future). 00:31:20 sharonfisher: Thank you! 00:42:18 Ashley Kaschl: Comment for paragraph #19: I think this can be really true if we aren’t discerning. For example, I’ll throw myself under the bus 😂 A priest and I were talking recently about how, before bed, I’ll sometimes get “carried away” by higher, theological thoughts and inspirations. And I’ll be drawn out of rest and end up awake for hours longer than I planned, which obviously makes me tired for the responsibilities the next day. This priest said, “it sounds like a distraction or a temptation.” And I hadn’t thought about that because I didn’t think about these beautiful things or contemplation of deeper truths I didn’t have time for during the day as devils in disguise to keep me from sleep. So when I tested this, sure enough, they went away when I prayed for deliverance if these seemingly good things were actually temptations/distractions from the great good of getting enough sleep. 00:44:40 Art: The sacrifice of the mass is greater than the sacrifice of a martyr. 01:06:15 Daniel Allen: It’s kind of like Lot. He had to be dragged out of Sodom by God, and even then when told to flee to the hills he asked to flee instead to a smaller city. 01:07:20 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you. Have a good retreat again!🙂 01:07:56 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!! 🙏 01:07:56 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You Blessing Father keep you in prayer I love the quotes on face book and instagram Thanks 01:08:07 sharonfisher: And with your spirit! I so appreciate your ability to bring clarity to the readings! 01:08:48 David Swiderski: Thank you father God bless you on the retreat! 01:09:03 David Swiderski: Thank you father God bless you on the retreat! 01:09:10 David Swiderski: Thank you father God bless you on the retreat!
We were turn once again to the most important of virtues - humility. Despite the repeated sayings about humility and the many illustrative stories, one does not have a sense of the “same thing” being said over and over again. Rather, humility is like a precious gem. Through the writings and the sayings of the Fathers we revolve around it, allowing the light of Christ to illuminate every facet of this virtue. The Fathers want us to understand that even our virtue must be perfected by the grace of God. It is precisely this reality that we see manifest in the struggles of the Fathers to obtain it. It is so precious that one should be willing, as it were, to sell all to possess it. In this sense, humility is a willingness to let go of the self, the ego, in order that we might keep our minds and our hearts fixed upon Christ. It is by His grace alone that we are saved and it is by imitating His humility that the demons are overcome.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:39:05 Louise: Could you talk about the fear of God versus being in love with God? 00:49:39 Louise: Could we say that someone under a spell can be blinded by the spell of the demon so to have pride regarding how one is great in serving the demon without realizing it? 01:03:13 Louise: St. John says, "Do not love the world or anything in the world"? St. James seems to take it a step further when he writes, "Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God." St. John also says, "We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one." 01:13:59 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:14:35 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Thank you🙂" with 👍 01:14:51 sharonfisher: And with your spirit! Thank you!
“An arrogant man yearns for authority; he cannot, or rather, does not wish to perish utterly.“ In many ways, this one saying sums up our reflection this evening. When pride takes hold of an individual soul, one begins to move further and further away from God. Rather than “perish utterly” - that is, die to self and sin - one drives God from the mind and heart.
The capacity to love diminishes, the desire to humiliate others increases, and, finally, our perception of reality is distorted beyond measure. It is for this reason that Saint John entitles this step “On Mad Pride“. The more that we turn away from He who is the Way, the Truth and the Life, the more that we turn away from He who is Meaning, the more we lose touch with reality. We become like the one who fell from heaven, the father of lies. We are drawn into the same darkness and inability to see not only the truth about our souls but also to see the depths of God’s love and compassion.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:02:44 FrDavid Abernethy: page 170 para number 2 00:15:21 TFredman: Have you heard from Ren? How is she doing? 00:16:21 Lee Graham: You will be greatly missed next week, you will be in my prayers. 00:43:33 David Swiderski: John mentions Gluttony is the prince of passions but also places Pride as a key passion are they both keys of all the passions? Is one more principal. 01:05:04 Louise: Therefore, how to understand one's desire to become competent, as competent as can be, to do things right? 01:14:05 Louise: So to become competent for Christ, to serve Christ in this world. 01:16:27 Victor: Thanks! 01:18:02 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father...will be praying... 01:18:13 Louise: Thanks, Fr. Abernethy! 01:18:13 Jeff O.: Thank you!! 01:18:18 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂Have a good retreat
Rarely do we acknowledge the extraordinary gift that God gave to his Church in the Desert fathers. It is precisely through their “living martyrdom” - their dying to self, to sin, and to the world, that they are able to guide us through the trials and tribulations of spiritual warfare. Their perception of our vulnerabilities as human beings was very acute. Humbled over and over again and acknowledging their sin and poverty before God, they came to see the many ways that the vices manifest themselves as well as the remedies to bring healing.
The spirituality that arises out of desert monasticism is not one among many. It is “the spirituality” of the church. It is a manifestation of the deepest exercise of faith. In this the desert fathers became living icons of the gospel. For this reason, it is often acknowledged that “wherever we see renewal within the life of the church, there are the desert fathers.”
Saint John Climacus draws us into where the fiercest warfare takes place – the human ego. We often seek to place the self at the center of existence and so open ourselves up to the spirit of vainglory and pride. When these take hold of us they close the door to repentance and healing. Furthermore, St. John tells us, they lead to a kind of “madness”. They distort our perception of reality. We can no longer see God or the truth about ourselves. And we see others not as the object of our love and compassion. Rather we become pitiless inquisitors and inhuman judges. Thus, it has often been said that a prideful monk has no need to be attacked by the demons because he has become a demon himself. This is true for all of us.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:05:03 FrDavid Abernethy: page 169 paragraph 40 00:25:10 Louise: Could we say that pride usually prevents people to acknowledge that they are under a spell or diabolically influenced, while it is obvious to others given the incongruence of their behaviors? 00:37:06 Anthony: It sounds then that the bad things attributed to Vatican 2 is an example of poor formation. 00:44:53 Louise: Affirmation ''therapy'' is not psychotherapy, but an obligation from the psychological boards. Otherwise, a psychologist looses his or her license. 00:45:37 Louise: This affirmation therapy applies to transgenderism. 00:46:36 sue and mark: louise, interesting. I had not heard that. thank you 00:48:31 David Swiderski: The book Orthodox Psychotherapy the science of the Fathers is very interesting on thsi subject. 01:04:12 David Swiderski: I loved that about Mother Teresa . A penicl in the hand of God. Not the hand not the author of what flowed through her. 01:10:07 Michael Hinckley: I always saw San Filippo as a precursor to Padre Pio 01:11:09 Anthony: When we crave entertainment like novels or movies - orvevrn news and talk radio - we open the door to the thoughts of others, to tell a story, and often the storytelling and acting makes vices into virtues. Even if it's not overt, the presentation undermines right thinking and behavior and causes future problems. 01:11:52 sue and mark: Reacted to "When we crave entert..." with 👍 01:12:22 Lee Graham: Reacted to "When we crave entert…" with 👍 01:13:07 Lee Graham: Reacted to "I loved that about M…" with ❤️ 01:22:17 Rachel: That is so true!! 01:22:36 Rachel: Haha 01:23:39 Rachel: Thank you! 01:23:41 David Swiderski: Thank you Father 01:23:48 sharonfisher: And with your spirit! 01:23:50 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:23:52 sue and mark: good night. thank you 01:23:53 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father 01:23:55 Michael Hinckley: Santa Notte
Synopsis of Tonight’s Group on The Evergetinos:
We often hear the question: “How would you describe the taste of honey to another who has never had it or the taste of a pear or its texture?” We might ask the very same questions about the virtues and in particular that of humility. How do we describe something that another has never tasted or that we have barely tasted ourselves? More importantly, how do we describe something that expresses not natural virtue, but the virtue of Christ himself - that describes the Divine life.
What is so striking about the desert fathers’ writing is that it brings the gospel alive. It becomes impossible for us to make the words that we hear as flat as the page upon which they are written. Suddenly they become embodied in a rich and powerful way through the lives of the Saints. They beckon us, like Christ, to take hold of what endures, to thirst for the love and virtue that leads us to intimacy with God, and to experience the true joy of the kingdom.
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00:06:43 Paul: Hello 00:26:06 Louise: I do not know how to address with humility the fact that a friend has a picture of Moloch on the wall behind her when we talk on Zoom. She has always been fascinated by horror movies. I am worried that she worships the demonic, unconsciously. She says that she does not believe in God and does not know what happens after death, but she believes in the paranormal. She knows my devotion to Jesus Christ. Do you have an idea, Fr. David? 01:09:57 Lorraine Green: Thank you! 01:10:03 Sheila Applegate: Thanks Father! 01:10:05 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:10:29 Alexandra K: Thank you Father! 01:10:54 Noha’s iPad: Thanks 🙏
One of the prophets writes: “the human heart is a treacherous thing, who can endure it!“ We begin to see the truth of this statement or more accurately the truth that is behind it. The spiritual battle that we engage in with our passions and our thoughts is often dogged by a kind of diabolical intrigue. The devil is relentless and unresting. He can manipulate us in such a way that he makes us desire to put ourselves forward, to put ourselves into the light; convincing us that to do so will draw people to greater faith.
The evil one acts with a kind of patience; he will begin to work on us slowly. He begins by making us enamored with our own natural gifts and abilities. In this way he makes us unfaithful in small things; we attribute natural gifts to ourselves rather than simply being grateful for the things of God has given to us. Such infidelity grows over the course of time as well as the complexity of the evil one’s manipulation. He can begin to work on us from multiple angles, if you will. He can place scripture in our mind to do battle with the temptation of one demon, but then make us feel proud of our ability to do so.
Therefore, St. John tells us that we must begin the road to freedom from vainglory by remaining silent about ourselves and our accomplishments. We must learn to love to be dishonored. To be a Christian in this world is to be mocked and held in contempt. We must set aside our tendency to wear a mask that makes us more acceptable in the eyes of the world. We may put on the appearance of virtue yet always within the limits of what our world finds acceptable.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:24:24 susan: seeing yourself as a debtor is truth 00:24:35 Rachel: John 4"34 00:30:18 Art: I recently heard in a homily: The Gospel teaches us not to be like the Pharisee who says, ‘thank you God that I’m not like the Publican’. But we must be careful that in our heart of hearts we’re not also saying, “Thank you God, I’m not like that Pharisee.” Vainglory can strike from any side. 00:31:02 Rachel: Reacted to "I recently heard i..." with ❤️ 00:31:42 Eric Ewanco: One method of evangelization is to share from our own experience instead of preaching what one should and should not do, since no one can argue with our experience and it's a more non-threatening way to share 00:31:59 Eric Ewanco: How would we evangelize with what you said in mind? 00:44:58 Ambrose Little, OP: The text here (#34) specifically speaks of displaying virtues. It’s akin to Christ’s exhortation to not be showy when fasting, or not be showy when giving—do not let the right hand know what the left is doing. I don’t see it speaking against witnessing what God has done for us. 00:47:39 Lawrence Martone: Regarding self-revelation, there’s the point that the focus should be on God and not ourselves, when it is expressed. 00:50:00 sharonfisher: Purity in motivations. 00:51:46 Anthony: There might be another vainglory....to magnify to yourself evil mental motions and temptations and fixate on What have I done? This is also pharisaical. 00:53:51 Lawrence Martone: “Our real business is to allow God to shed His light through us, and since the light belongs to Him, He will know where to focus it and to what extent. Our endeavor should be to make ourselves transparent so as not to eclipse His brilliance.” Erasmo Leiva-Merikais on Matthew 5:14 ff. It seems to me that humility, as was mentioned earlier in Step 22, is essential to this endeavor of making ourselves transparent. 01:05:17 Cindy Moran: How does what John tells us apply to being a fool for Christ... 01:07:09 Cindy Moran: You just answered me. 01:07:11 David Swiderski: The Island is a movie from 2006 that demonstrates a fool for christ 01:07:25 Rachel: I wonder if this movement towards simplifying is somewhere where we have to be led by our Lord. Since it is an abyss we cant know how to navigate our way through. We can ' think" we know what kinds of dishonor we can profit by but it seems we have to wait to be led by only seeking God's will and what He reveals to us 01:10:33 Maureen Cunningham: ThankYou 01:10:35 Lorraine Green: Thank you Father! 01:10:48 Eric Ewanco: One year anniversary of your appointment! 01:11:21 sharonfisher: And with your spirit! 01:11:22 Rachel: Thank you 01:11:24 Louise: Thank you! 01:11:25 Jeff O.: Thank you! 01:11:29 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!! 01:11:32 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:11:33 Bonnie Lewis: Thanks be to God! Thank you Father. 01:11:39 sue and mark: Thank you Fr. Abernethy! God bless
Humility is above all the other virtues.” Living in the truth allows for the most important thing to emerge in a person’s life – repentance. When we see and acknowledge the nature of our actions and our thoughts and we bring them before God, it is then that He can heal us and make us whole.
The struggle to do this, however, can be great. There’s always part of us that wants to hold on to the illusion of creating our own dignity and identity. Humility compels us to acknowledge that all things begin and end with God. We certainly have our role to play in the Divine drama; however, one can have all the virtues and appear to be saintly, yet if they are lacking the virtue of humility, none of these virtues will bear fruit. If an individual is like the publican coming to the temple beating his breast and realizing that there is no virtue in him at all immediately he is justified in the eyes of God. He’s let go of the lie of the Evil One.
We cannot take for ourselves what belongs to God alone. He is life and love and truth, and it is his mercy that allows us to participate in this reality. To be humble, to see ourselves as nothing of note, cost very little but promises everything in return.
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00:08:27 FrDavid Abernethy: page 387 00:08:31 FrDavid Abernethy: no. 7 00:12:07 Jason: Good evening Fr and everyone 00:34:42 sharonfisher: But doesn’t opening with “How’s your prayer life?” seem like a pre-judgment that they aren’t attentive enough? “How are you doing?” can be sincere, but also allow individuals to share at their own comfort level. (Not trying to be contrary, but I maintain my own faith and am wary of coming across as holier-than-thou. Sorry, late comment to last segment.) 00:36:14 sharonfisher: I see - thank you! 01:03:43 alexandramucerino: We cannot forgive we do not first accept the injustice 01:05:26 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: Sometimes I'm quick to jump into problem-solving or project management in my life or ministry or others' lives. I'm wondering if the practice of humility would recommend that I stop and ask first, is this where God is working? It seems that I've been noticing God at work in subtle ways in my or others' lives, but not necessarily in what I think is more important or expedient. I'm wondering about humility here. 01:15:41 Lorraine Green: Thank you 01:15:46 sharonfisher: And to your spirit! Thank you ! 01:15:50 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: thank you 01:15:52 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:15:56 sue and mark: thank you God bless.
Humility often eludes us not only in practice but in our ability to understand it. As always, we have to look to Christ as the standard. What we see revealed in him through the incarnation and in the Paschal mystery opens the door for us to begin to walk this same path.
Understanding comes through experience. We must be shown what humility is and be made humble through experience. So often the self seeks to place itself at the center of existence; and in our spiritual life we begin to lose sight of God. Even in the pursuit of sanctity, we can fail to see the ways that we are lacking purity of heart. We often do not desire God above all things, or make him the beginning and end of all that we do. We may toil but to no end.
Having said this, the stories from the fathers begin to reveal to us the distinctive marks of humility in a man. These stories show us why it is not only the most important virtue but also the most powerful. It overcomes all that is demonic. The more we trust solely in the grace of God, the more we abandon ourselves to his mercy and acknowledge the poverty due to our sin, the more his grace transforms us and acts through us and touches the lives of others. Humility and its perfection goes beyond truthful living or acknowledging the truth about ourselves. It is having eyes only for God. It is living in him and for him in every measure.
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00:06:23 FrDavid Abernethy: page 385 paragraph 6 00:06:31 FrDavid Abernethy: page 384 para 6 00:25:02 Anthony: Emphasis on kindness....sounds like something St Gabriel of Georgia said. 00:38:56 Anthony: Yes 00:38:56 Jacqulyn: Yes 00:46:31 Louise: Would the Desert Fathers agree or disagree with the following. Hating sins makes us ''relate'' to sins and instills hatred inside of us. I prefer to practice detachment from sins, as much as possible, and feel sorrow at having turned my back to God. 00:54:48 Lee Graham: As I forgive someone who hurts me, I see my sin disappear. 01:13:17 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
With stunning clarity, St. John Climacus begins to show us the subtlety of vainglory; how easily it draws us to focus upon the self in one fashion or another. It suggests thoughts that elevate us in our own eyes and diminishes others in our judgment.
Through vainglory we begin the movement of placing ourselves in the position of God; placing the self at the center of the spiritual life. The battle becomes ever so fierce and dangerous because at this point the focus of the demons’ attention is on our virtues. The demons make them the object of our attention. In doing so they turn us away from God who is the beginning and end of all things.
And with the self firmly planted at the center, we are easily driven to rage and wrath towards anyone who gets in our way. In the end, St John will show us how this gives birth to pride and how it draws us into the very darkness of hell itself.
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00:31:16 Lawrence Martone: Fr. Abernethy, Perhaps the opposite of this vice of vainglory and seeking prestige is the beautiful story about St. John Vianney who added his own signature to a letter of protest to the bishop from leading clerics and parishioners against his (Fr. Vianney’s) way of being a pastor. 00:38:42 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: St. John Chrysostom and St. Gregory the Theologian, also, fled the priesthood, but eventually offered the Church an extraordinary legacy. Vainglory, would you say, attacks or tries to undermine our authentic vocations? 00:52:05 Anthony: Living the spiritual life is not the same as conversations in a "salon" or on a college campus. 00:52:06 Ren Witter: 🤣🤣🤣 My favorite Philip story 00:55:35 Louise: Could we say that vainglory corresponds to the ongoing self-validation or self-degradation of the ego, the ego focusing on the ego? If I were to let myself, I could become quite exasperated at this pervasive phenomenon inside my psyche. Any thoughts, Fr.? 00:59:35 Louise: So, we ought to not fight with our vainglory, but gently turn back to loving Jesus Christ. 01:02:14 Louise: Thank you, Fr. 01:08:30 Rachel: I think vainglory can be ever so subtle. I know someone who was told by a priest they were being scrupulous in a certain matter when they tried to confess. This brought much confusion because the person knew that the sins they attempted to confess were not " serious matter" and did not need to be confessed but in their desire to fight pride and vainglory, which was the cause of their sins. The person then had to fight vainglory in another way and thatg was not to tell the priest they knew that they were not serious sins. It was more painful to be seen as scrupulous and weak minded for the person. 01:09:55 Louise: I feel compassionate with people with a narcissistic disorder of the self, an arrested psychological development, who are so often stuck in vainglory and pride. What a prison! 01:14:15 Kevin Burke: The deeper we go into John’s Vainglory examples the more it seems the same as pride to me. Can we recap the distinction between Vainglory and pride? 01:18:13 David Swiderski: Aren't a lot of the theologians presenting vainglory by arguing about angels on a pin, filoque, how one makes the sign of the cross etc. etc. Only I can see the truth ..... all others that don't agree with me are wrong. 01:20:22 Anthony: That's Dante 's penultimate circle of hell if memory is correct - persons who appear alive on earth but they have confirmed themselves in hell. 01:23:50 Maureen Cunningham: Thank you , Blessing in my prayers 01:24:30 Rachel: Thank you 01:24:32 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!! 01:24:39 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:24:43 David Swiderski: Thank you father!
Every generation, every person, must be made humble! Whatever way that takes place - whatever means we are shown this, it must happen if we are to follow Christ, and if we are to live in Him. He is Humility because he is Truth. In fact, the simplest definition of humility for us is truthful living. We must live in the Truth that has been revealed to us - we must live in Christ.
That sounds a lot easier than what it is. Our egos often snap back into the center. The self, even within the context of the spiritual life, wants to be recognized as having value and strength. We want to have the perception of lifting ourselves up out of the mire.
It is a humbling thing in and of itself to be saved. To acknowledge a savior means that we acknowledge the truth of our own poverty and sin. It means that we must acknowledge that we are not the source of life and love. God gives it to us so freely and with such gentleness and yet we can resent Him for it. Christ endures all things for us. He makes himself so small so as to be non-threatening; that is, he gives himself to us as our very food and drink. He nourishes us upon himself and his love. Yet pride can blind us to it all. God wants no “thing” from us. He wants us. Sadly, to say “yes” to that love can be one of the hardest things of life.
---- Text of chat during the group: 00:41:04 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: After years of working professionally in the US, I'm formed to believe that results indicate that I'm doing the right thing. It's hard for me to wrap my mind around the idea that God could see my failure as beneficial. Or that feeling like a failure could have some value. 00:57:20 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: It seems that consolation outside of relationship with Christ could even be an impediment in the spiritual life. 01:11:35 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: Is it that the people you quoted are telling us that we need to realize that humility is actually an attribute of God he shares with us. 01:15:32 Lorraine Green: Thank you! 01:15:40 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
Self-esteem . . . how the meaning of that has changed over the generations. And when it becomes abstracted from our relationship with God, when our self-identity, purpose, and meaning becomes unmoored from He who created us, self-esteem can become the most grotesque of the vices. It will not only diminish our virtues, but destroy them completely.
When the sweat and the toil of the spiritual life is turned back on the self or when ascetical practices become ends in themselves, they lose all value. Christ himself warns us about this in the Gospel. “If you fast in order that others see that you are fasting, then you have your reward.“ In other words, we have our payment in full. We see ourselves, and others see us as self-disciplined, but that is as far as the labor takes us.
In this sense we become the most pitiable of all men, because we are acting as if there is no resurrection. If the things we do in this world, including religious things, are done for ourselves and to build up our own egos then they will eventually turn to dust. The love that has been revealed to us is self-emptying.
In our day to hold fast to such an understanding can only seem absurd for in no way does it fit with the wisdom of the world. Only by keeping our eyes fixed upon God and fixed upon Jesus Christ and him crucified do we let go of the illusion not only of being the self-made man, but the self-made Christian. Religious people are not in capable of having their own delusions. In fact, the delusion of being religious can be the greatest among them and the most difficult to overcome. It is only when the cross is firmly rooted in the mind and the heart and when we have allowed ourselves to be humbled by it do we then become free; free, not for ourselves or to serve ourselves, but free to love others and God.
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00:05:12 FrDavid Abernethy: page 165 beginning Step 22 on Vainglory 00:29:13 Anthony: Should we be looking at our works this way? I had thoughtbit was a heresy to believe that any thing we do, even every good thing, is infected with sin. 00:39:14 David Swiderski: Are the references to Fulton Sheen from Treasure in Clay? 00:39:44 Louise: Can we say that vain glory is present as soon as we identify with something, anything? 00:40:55 Louise: What inner attitude could counter vain glory? Maybe vulnerability, fortitude, and yet a complete dependency on God. 00:43:49 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: I suffer the vainglory of fantasizing about meeting with someone or doing something in the future that will bring someone 00:44:07 Fr Marty, ND, 480-292-3381: someone's conversion and blessing. 00:55:09 Anthony: That was a very uncomfortable movie. 00:59:44 Ashley Kaschl: Father, you posted something this week by Evely that has really stuck with me, “…whereas you were trying to use even your first move of confidence towards God in order not to entrust yourself truly to Him, but to try to make him enter into your plans, like a pawn, like a pawn on your chess board. It is only when you accepted to be a pawn in his hand and in his plan, that you liberated your hope and his action." I think this relates to paragraphs 6 and 11 because, in the same way, the believing idolater or the flatterer uses God, and manipulates every good, as a means to their own end, for their own glory. I’m reminded of St. John Paul II saying, to a friend who asked him why God would let him suffer an assassination attempt and being shot that, “there is nothing better than to be a tool in the hand of God.” I think the vainglorious seeks control and betrays God for human honor or a perception of strength, and would rather put on airs than be changed internally, than to be docile to the will of God. 01:05:17 Maureen Cunningham: What the difference between Praise and Flattery 01:14:32 Kate: When one looks back and sees how much one has done not for God but for self, it can be very painful realization. Yet what is so amazing is that God in His Providence was still very much at work during those times even when we were not seeking first His Kingdom. 01:14:37 David Swiderski: There is a tradition in my family with my grandfather, father and I try. When someone thanks them they say - don't thank me, thank God I am able. 01:14:53 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "When one looks back …" with ❤️ 01:15:10 sue and mark: Reacted to "When one looks back ..." with ❤️ 01:15:14 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "There is a tradition…" with ❤️ 01:15:32 sue and mark: Reacted to "There is a tradition..." with ❤️ 01:16:17 David Swiderski: It seems to help to realize nothing is inherent in you but flows from God. 01:19:24 Maureen Cunningham: Blessing thank you 01:19:30 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father 01:19:31 sharonfisher: And with your spirit. Thanks! 01:19:32 David Swiderski: Thank you father! 01:19:34 Ambrose Little, OP: Gracias! 01:19:37 sue and mark: Thank you FR. Abernethy 01:19:39 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:19:43 Lorraine Green: Thank you 01:19:45 Ambrose Little, OP: 🙂 Thanks!I can say this without any caveat - reading the Evergetinos is one of the most important things that we could do for ourselves in the spiritual life. I know that might sound extreme; especially given all of the writings of the Fathers that we have read over the course of the years, including the writings of the Philokalia.
Yet, there’s something exceptional about the Evergetinos. We are not only given specific teachings but we are shown the lived experience of the fathers; how they came to understand things in the way that they did about the human person, the struggle with sin, and the action of God’s grace. This became especially apparent in this evening’s group. Our focus, in particular, was on the virtue of humility. After pondering the sayings of the Fathers - that the truly wise individual is the one who has control over his volition, who seeks in every way to make his will subject to God and understands that the will of God is advantageous to him in a manner surpassing all human understanding.
In and of itself this is beautiful and speaks to the heart. However, we segued into a story from the life of Saint Pachomius describing the birth and development of humility in the soul of one of his monks Simvanos. Suddenly all the truths we read about came to life. We move from the notional to the real very quickly. The human mind and our tendency towards rationalization easily draws us back to a worldly way of perceiving reality. Whereas the lives of the Saints reveal to us the heart of man and God; what it is to be created in the image and likeness of God, what it is to neglect that truth, and the beauty of the soul that emerges when the grace of God brings healing where once there was only sin.
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00:05:30 FrDavid Abernethy: page 377 Letter B 00:05:57 Jason: I do not have the text, but am looking to purchase soon 00:06:29 FrDavid Abernethy: Jason that’s fine. We read the text as we go along 00:06:48 Jason: Reacted to "Jason that’s fine. …" with ❤️ 00:08:24 Jason: I am a catechumen in my local Orthodox Church, I do hope that I am still able to attend these 00:08:49 Ren Witter: Replying to "I am a catechumen in..." Absolutely! 00:09:12 Ren Witter: Replying to "I am a catechumen in..." You are not our only Orthodox/nearly Orthodox by any means 😊 00:09:14 Jason: Reacted to "Absolutely!" with ❤️ 00:09:21 Jason: Reacted to "You are not our only…" with ❤️ 00:10:00 Susanna Joy: Oh, wow...Congratulations, Father! Sounds wonderful.🎉🙏🏾😊 00:34:22 Anthony: Som people like me have a strong g attachment to duty. And to be incompetent to fulfill perceived duty is very difficult. 00:56:56 David Fraley: Reacted to "Som people like me h…" with 👍 01:03:32 Louise: Would you say that he developed humility because he was humiliated and accepted it due to the love embedded into the humiliation. 01:09:45 Anthony: I guess this answers a duty driven person. If you just can't find a way to complete duty, you can either become vicious to attain the goal or accept the humility borne from inability to complete the duty. 01:17:18 Maureen Cunningham: Poor in spirit 01:18:35 Maureen Cunningham: Life is potter's wheel 01:18:50 Susanna Joy: Thank you, Father.🙏🏾 01:18:52 Rachel: Thank you a thousand times. 01:19:11 Melissa Kummerow: Reacted to "Thank you a thousand…" with 💕 01:19:25 sue and mark: Thank you Father A. Good night. 01:19:33 Susanna Joy: Reacted to "Thank you a thousand..." with 💕 01:19:41 Louise: God bless you, Fr. 01:19:42 Lorraine Green: Thank you 01:19:43 Maureen Cunningham: Thank you 01:19:43 Melissa Kummerow: You too! 01:19:44 David Fraley: Thank you, Father. 01:19:48 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
Anxiety, it has been said, is ubiquitous. We all experience it and in its many manifestations. On a purely psychological level, one can never get to the heart or source of this feeling and its accompanying isolation. Often we find ourselves desperate to free ourselves from its grip. Therefore, we either immerse ourselves in the things of this world and maintain the illusion of security or we become paralyzed by it completely.
The desert fathers including St. John Climacus, however, remind us that through the incarnation everything about what it is to be a human being has been assumed and embraced by our Lord, including this experience that often plagues our existence. Christ is the source of all healing and in and through our immersion in His life through the sacraments and prayer we begin to enter into the peace of the kingdom. We are commanded in the Scriptures not to have any anxiety at all. However, this is not simply a command but a promise of grace and strength. If we hold on to our faith in the Lord, if we truly hope in his promises, then all anxiety and fear will flee. To call upon the name of Jesus is to flog our enemies; meaning not only the temptations that come to us from the demons, but the fears that they would insert into our minds and hearts.
To mourn over one’s sin, to acknowledge the brevity of our life, is the set aside all illusion and false security. It leads us to cling to Christ who is life and love. So often we too like the disciples are foolish and slow of heart to believe. Yet in Christ even the most improbable of things becomes possible - that in the soul dedicated to God fear and cowardice disappears.
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00:08:02 FrDavid Abernethy: page 163 Step 21 00:19:55 LauraLeigh: In #2, is he saying that this "old soul" should know better than to give in to cowardice? 00:23:10 Eric Ewanco: Fear is a lack of trust in God 00:23:13 Louise: Fear arises when we read a situation as a threat, while boldness arises when we read a situation as a challenge. With Christ, maybe we should see all situations as challenges which we can face with Him. 00:24:09 Cindy Moran: Pray for me I lost my wallet today Yes I am anxious. 00:25:22 Rebecca Thérèse: I'll pray for you Cindy 00:25:26 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "I'll pray for you Ci..." with 🙏 00:25:36 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "Pray for me I lost m..." with 🙏 00:28:37 Louise: Why are even Catholics so afraid of dying? I do not understand. 00:29:42 Cindy Moran: Reacted to "I'll pray for you Ci..." with 🙏 00:31:31 David Swiderski: It is interesting I lived and traveled in very insecure areas with lots of kidnappings, random shootings/killings, widespread stealing where your car often is going in Mexico, Colombia, Brazil and I found people of amazing faith. Here were there is comfort and more lonleiness anxiety seems widespread. 00:35:45 wayne: Replying to "Pray for me I lost m..." pray to St Anthony always helps, has worked for me 00:43:55 TFredman: Reacted to "I'll pray for you Ci..." with 🙏 00:45:36 maureencunningham: How did Moses come to Christ 00:49:28 Michael Abele: I am not afraid for my own safety, but sometimes I fear for the people I care for and protect 00:51:23 LauraLeigh: I love that. "Flog your enemies with the Name of Jesus." I'm going to remember that. 00:53:08 Lori Hatala: I think God gave me enough sense not to purposely put myself in a harmful situation. ot avoiding all but knowing what to stay away from. 00:54:40 Eric Ewanco: ChatGPT summarizes his conversion thusly: Saint Moses the Black, once a violent bandit, sought refuge among desert monks in Egypt. Impressed by their peace and patience, he converted to Christianity, became a monk, and later an abbot, renowned for his deep spirituality and wisdom. He was martyred defending his monastery. 00:55:12 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "ChatGPT summarizes h..." with ❤️ 00:55:37 LauraLeigh: Replying to "ChatGPT summarizes h..." I believe I read that he had about 70 monks under his care by the time he died. 00:55:43 Eric Ewanco: Replying to "ChatGPT summarizes h..." yes 00:57:14 Lawrence Martone: Perhaps Ignatian “agere contra” can help us deal with fear, always trusting in Christ. 01:04:37 Michael Abele: Meant to phrase my earlier comment as a question: can the same be said about fearing for the sake of others? I suppose that can also get out of hand if we do not trust God 01:08:24 Jeff O.: Are barrenness of soul and spiritual desolation as Ignatius tends to identify it somewhat the same here? Or is he getting at something else? 01:10:28 David Swiderski: Jacobs Ladder the movie. All I saw were demons torturing and tearing at me but then I looked again and they were angels freeing me from the attachments of life. 01:11:17 Ashley Kaschl: Paragraph 9 is reminding me of the recent Gospel reading of Jesus calling Peter to walk on the water. Water generally represents chaos in scripture, something unformed or in turmoil. And I think also, if we believe wholeheartedly that we are made in the image of God, and the longer we spend in His presence, the more we are revealed as ourselves in that identity, it is almost as though overcoming temporal and animalistic fear is like passing through raging waters, to be “meeked” by the grace of God so that even our fears are rightly ordered. 01:12:53 Ashley Kaschl: Part 2: (sorry it’s long) if then, we are filled with this grace to have such a disposition as to be unmoving and freed from other fears, then we are always being filled. St. Bernard of Clairvaux says, “The man who is wise, therefore, will see his life as more like a reservoir than a canal. The canal simultaneously pours out what it receives; the reservoir retains the water till it is filled, then discharges the overflow without loss to itself. Today there are many in the Church who act like canals, the reservoirs are far too rare ... You too must learn to await this fullness before pouring out your gifts, do not try to be more generous than God.” 01:15:17 Ambrose Little, OP: (No need to read this aloud, Father): Would appreciate your prayers for my surgery tomorrow morning. It's supposed to be minor/outpatient. The post-op recovery/adaptation period is long, though. I'm optimistic for a good result. Thanks in advance! 🙏🏻🙏🏻 01:15:46 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "(No need to read thi…" with 🙏 01:15:52 Art: Reacted to "(No need to read thi…" with 🙏 01:15:54 Cindy Moran: Reacted to "(No need to read thi..." with 🙏 01:15:54 TFredman: Reacted to "(No need to read thi..." with 🙏 01:15:55 Eric Ewanco: Reacted to "(No need to read thi..." with 🙏 01:16:02 Brian L: Reacted to "(No need to read thi..." with 🙏 01:16:03 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "(No need to read thi..." with 🙏 01:16:10 Jeff O.: Reacted to "(No need to read thi..." with 🙏 01:17:29 LauraLeigh: Replying to "Part 2: (sorry it’s ..." Love this. Very meaningful and helpful to me right now. ❤️ 01:19:50 sue and mark: Reacted to "(No need to read thi..." with 🙏 01:21:26 LauraLeigh: Father, just a reminder to check out Protecting Veil on YT. He's run Fr. Freeman, too. 01:21:44 Ambrose Little, OP: The intro to the hours of prayer is always good when feeling afraid: God, come to my assistance. Lord, make haste to help me! 01:22:11 Jeff O.: Reacted to "The intro to the hou..." with 👍 01:22:32 LauraLeigh: The only thing I stumble on is that cowardice seems to mean fear or anxiety, but I tend to think of it a little differently. Need to sit with this for a while. 01:22:47 Michael Abele: Don't angels usually open with "be not afraid" when they make an appearance? I always thought they'd be a little scary to encounter, in an awe inspiring way. 01:23:00 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "Don't angels usually…" with 💯 01:23:08 Barbara: Do the Eastern Fathers call upon the blood of Jesus as protection or as dissolution of fears? 01:23:43 Susan M: I THINK IT IS PS 70.1 01:23:50 Ambrose Little, OP: Replying to "Don't angels usually..." Definitely as described by Ezekiel. 🙂 01:24:07 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "The intro to the hou…" with 👍 01:24:32 Ambrose Little, OP: Reacted to "I THINK IT IS PS 70...." with 👍🏻 01:24:32 Cindy Moran: Reacted to "Don't angels usually..." with 💯 01:24:40 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "I THINK IT IS PS 70.…" with 👍🏻 01:25:03 Audrey C. Block: Had great fears this morning; went to Sacrifice of the Mass and still great fears( poor healthx6mos plus many other challenges)sat by Jesus in the Tabernacle and begged His healp over and over, finally by 30 min fears ALL gone! 01:25:36 Rachel: Ou rparish is in a rough neighborhood. Two contrasting experiences...one, a while back during a parish event that ran late I entered the chapel forgetting the roughness of the neighborhood. Upon leaving I rralized that no other person, except Our Lord present in the Blessed Sacrament was with me. 01:26:14 Ambrose Little, OP: Ps 46:1-3 is good meditation for this, too. 01:26:18 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "Had great fears this…" with ❤️ 01:26:25 Cindy Moran: Reacted to "Had great fears this..." with ❤️ 01:26:38 Rachel: Yet, recently the same situation, I entered the chapel alone, and even with this reading in mind, but, it took all of my strength not to look over my shoulder at every small sound in the dark! 01:26:55 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "Ps 46:1-3 is good me…" with 🔥 01:27:45 Rachel: Reacted to "Had great fears th..." with ❤️ 01:28:56 Rachel: There was no one in the chapel 01:29:04 Rachel: It was at night at dark 01:29:07 Lawrence Martone: Leiva-Merikakis has a remarkable reflection on the calming of the sea. (Mt. 8:23-27). Just one sentence: “The Savior is redeeming his disciples by making his profound serenity as God inhabit the same space as their frantic despair.” 01:29:16 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "Leiva-Merikakis has …" with 😍 01:29:27 Ambrose Little, OP: Replying to "Ps 46:1-3 is good me..." God is for us a refuge and strength, a helper close at hand, in time of distress: so we shall not fear though the earth should rock, though the mountains fall into the depths of the sea, even though its waters rage and foam, even though the mountains be shaken by its waves. (Abbey Psalter) 01:29:29 Ashley Kaschl: Replying to "Leiva-Merikakis has …" LOVE him 🔥 01:29:45 Rachel: Reacted to "Leiva-Merikakis ha..." with ❤️ 01:29:48 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "Leiva-Merikakis has …" with 🔥 01:30:04 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "Leiva-Merikakis has ..." with ❤️ 01:30:10 sue and mark: Reacted to "Leiva-Merikakis has ..." with ❤️ 01:30:58 Cindy Moran: I am so distraught that I almost didn't log on tonight...thank you Father & Everyone for prayers. I don't feel so overwhelmed now. Thanks be to God. Bless you all. 01:31:30 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "I am so distraught t..." with ❤️ 01:31:54 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "I am so distraught t…" with ❤️ 01:32:22 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:32:34 iPhone: Thank you. Very helpful. 01:33:03 John: Thank you, Father! 01:33:06 sue and mark: Thank you Fr. Abernethy and God bless you. good night. 01:33:07 maureencunningham: Thanks 01:33:08 Lorraine Green: Thank you 01:33:09 Jeff O.: Thank you! 01:33:11 Rachel: Thank you all. Thank you 01:33:16 David Swiderski: Thank you father
One of the most difficult things about the faith is not simply desiring God with all of our heart, but allowing God and His desire for us to transform us and shape us. It means allowing Him to draw us into His own life and virtue. We are to become in the world what He is to us.
Therefore, we are immediately confronted with the fact that we have to let go of the limited powers of our own reason and judgment. We must place our faith and hope in the providence of God to guide us along the path that leads to salvation. Like Saint Peter there often comes a time in our life when another binds us and leads us where we do not want to go. There will likely be many occasions when we are called to die to self and sin and to live for God alone - come what may.!
The afflictions that we bear and our desire NOT to force our will upon others can only emerge from this reality. We must put on the mind of Christ. We must become what we receive in the holy Eucharist. All that we suffer must be seen as united to Christ’s redemptive work on the cross. Christianity is about as far from being a philosophical system or ideology as something could be. It is Divine Life and Love.
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00:01:48 FrDavid Abernethy: page 374 00:02:05 FrDavid Abernethy: Welcome Susanna 00:02:15 FrDavid Abernethy: Facebook friend :-0 00:02:33 Susanna Joy: Reacted to "Facebook friend :-0" with ☺️ 00:02:49 Susanna Joy: Thank you, Father. 00:02:57 FrDavid Abernethy: You’re very welcome 00:41:30 John: Would making asceticism an end in itself a type of obeying the letter of the law, rather than the spirit? 00:42:31 Susanna Joy: This is very helpful advice for me right niw, as I have been staying at my friend's spiritual community, and being so distressed at members' contentiousness...wondering what to do and stay cenetered/bring a spirit if peace 00:42:50 Susanna Joy: *spirit of peace 00:46:15 Susanna Joy: Yes...exactly. .. Love must return to its Source in order to flow ever onward... Remembering to turn to Christ in these moments 00:49:02 TFredman: (My name is Tracey) The hardest Lent I ever had was when my spiritual director suggested a different type of fast - a fast from just what we are talking about. Taking his counsel to heart, I decided that a contentious coworker would not disturb my peace and I would love her - oh yes, she was my Lenten project. It was incredibly difficult. She did her best to destroy me and to talk about me to others and to in effect destroy our "team" during the most difficult season of our work. I suffered through that Lent and beyond more than I can express. But through it all, I was at peace and grace followed. 00:51:52 John: At a retreat in June, I was given a Holy Card with a prayer of St. Charles de Foucauld: An Act of Abandonment: "Father, I abandon myself into Your hands. Do with me what you will. Whatever You may do, I thank you. I am ready for all, I accept all. Let only your will be done in me, and in all Your creatures - I wish no more than this, O Lord. Into Your hands I commend my soul; I offer it to Thee with all the love of my heart, for I love you, Lord, and so need to give myself, to surrender myself into Your hands, without reserve, and with boundless confidence. For You are my Father. Amen. 00:52:43 carol nypaver: 🙏🏼 00:53:22 Alexandra K: Amen.. 00:55:59 Anthony: I agree with the feeling of loss. There's an interesting verse in Sirach or Wisdom, I think, "Let not th eunuch say 'I am not fruitful.'" It's a verse pointing to Abraham 's hope in an impossibile situation. 00:57:09 Louise: A woman I know ask the Beloved to teach her unconditional love. After few months, her 30-year husband announced her that he was leaving for a younger woman. What an opportunity to react with unconditional love! 00:59:00 Louise: ''asked'' 01:05:36 carol nypaver: Is it important to discern whether it is atonement for sin or a test? 01:10:01 John: These experiences of painful, crushing long-suffering remind me of what Cardinal Merry del Val prayed for in his Litany of Humility: http://catholictradition.org/Litanies/litany55.htm 01:10:36 Anthony: The Gospel insinuates some Jews called St Mary a very bad name. That must have been hard to bear. 01:12:16 Alexandra K: And during this past year of contentiousness i have been praying The cardinal s litany of humility. Watch out you ask for! 01:14:08 Sheila Applegate: Do we really want "thy will to be done" because does that not mean he wants us humbled..and like Him. We don't, mostly. 01:18:13 Sheila Applegate: Ouch. 01:18:25 maureencunningham: Thank You 01:19:01 Susanna Joy: Thank you, Father.🙏🏾 01:19:03 Lorraine Green: Thank you Father 01:19:03 John: Thank you, Father! 01:19:09 sue and mark: good night thank you 01:19:14 Alexandra K: Ty
All that was to be redeemed had also then to be assumed in the Incarnation. All that is human and all that is part of the human experience must be embraced by Christ in order that it might be healed by his grace.
We are shown this in a very simple way in regards to one of our basic appetites as human beings - sleep. Like any other appetite, it must be ordered rightly; otherwise, it can end up stealing half of our life. Rather than being drawn into the rest of contemplation, we are often pulled into something much less helpful. Instead of engaging He who is Reality, Life and Love, we often seek to escape these things and enter into sleep or the myriad of ways that we can escape reality.
Therefore, when it comes to prayer, we are often embattled. Sleep can come upon us quickly or we can be drawn to direct or attention to the work of our hands. The Evil One can stimulate the mind at just the right time to pull us away from the comfort and consolation of God into conversation, food, sleep, etc. We must understand that we are engaged in a spiritual battle. When the devil sees us engaging in spiritual warfare, when he sees us developing the discipline of prayer, he will immediately seek to afflicted us with temptations and fantasies the moment the prayer is finished. He will try to snatch away from us the first fruits of the soul.
We can understand, then, why John tells us that bodily vigil leads to spiritual vigil or alertness. We need to be alert not to protect ourselves from the things of this world, but from the darkness that would enter into our hearts if we do not guard them.
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00:08:28 FrDavid Abernethy: page 162 para 10 00:09:06 angelo: Reacted to "page 162 para 10" with 👍 00:25:49 Maureen Cunningham: did they recite the Psalms as prayer 00:35:46 Louise: Television induces a trance in most people. 00:43:26 Louise: Another feature of watching television is that we become what we contemplate. 00:45:25 carol nypaver: Amen!🤣 00:46:11 Anthony: Recreation, re-creation, takes work, and I find it's easy just to watch, but it is agitating and like Lucy, Charlie Brown and the football, it's a recurrent trap around 10pm. 00:47:25 Eric Ewanco: This is a general question that's been percolating for a while in my mind as I've been listening to the sessions: Sometimes the desert fathers come across like salvation is so difficult to achieve that it would tempt me to despair, if I were to give it credence. Can you comment on their perspective, and also what they believed the chances of a layperson to be saved was? 00:47:33 Cindy Moran: I've worked in broadcast TV for 43 years. It's the last thing I pick for relaxation. 00:48:10 Ren Witter: Who was it who said: “I have learned a great deal from television, because, every time it is put on, I leave the room and read a book” ? 🤣 I don’t remember, but I thought it was great at the time. 00:49:39 Cindy Moran: Replying to "Who was it who said:..." Groucho Marx said this. 00:52:15 Bonnie's iPad (2): In fact it can be quite shocking as to how quickly this can occur. 00:53:01 Art: Reacted to "Who was it who said:..." with 👍 00:53:13 John: I seem to be especially vulnerable to attacks right after Confession - including getting stuck behind a slow driver (the most annoying thing for a New Yorker... 🙂 so I've tried to become very vigilant at that time. 00:55:29 Ambrose Little, OP: Reacted to "I seem to be especia..." with 😅 00:56:27 sue and mark: I remember hearing a priest say that "a saint is not someone who never fell, they just did not make friends with the dirt" It is not the falling but the getting back up over and over again, according to this priest. 00:57:12 Bonnie's iPad (2): Reacted to "I seem to be especia…" with 👌 01:03:37 Ambrose Little, OP: Replying to "Who was it who said:..." Say it in your head with his style of speaking—classic. 🙂 01:04:03 Lawrence Martone: It is hard to find a priest/confessor who really understands spiritual warfare and dealing with attacks from demons. The demons zero in on your weakest points, especially in retaliation after times of holiness and grace. It can result in deep despondency, or anger, with a total absence of peace. 01:04:27 Lee Graham: Saints fall down and get up 01:05:05 John: Reacted to "It is hard to find a..." with 👍 01:05:38 Eric Ewanco: There is an agraphon (word of Jesus not in the Gospels) recorded in the Byzantine Anointing of the Sick service that goes "As any times as you fall, arise, and you shall be saved". 01:06:14 sue and mark: Reacted to "There is an agraphon..." with 👍 01:07:33 Anthony: Sometimes I've used Frederick Neitsche in a way to help me. Exert the will not to stay in despondency. Despite emotional feeling, maintain a deep determination to hope. 01:09:38 Cindy Moran: I read that EWTN has a new series on The Desert Father's starting Aug 20 01:09:52 Eric Ewanco: Reacted to "I read that EWTN has..." with ❤️ 01:12:51 Cindy Moran: 😄 01:13:13 Anthony: That's a mistake I believe the Puritans made. 01:14:58 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:15:41 John: Thank you Father!! 01:15:43 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You 01:15:44 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father...great session! 01:15:49 Krissy: Thank you Fathet
Being thrown off balance! The experience of vertigo! This is what comes to mind when considering the writings from the Evergetinos this evening. Once again, the gospel is put before us in an unvarnished fashion. It is as if through the unclouded vision of the fathers suddenly the truth of the gospel appears before us and all of its starkness. We are to love and to become love. It is this reality that must shape and form our interaction with every person we encounter. It suggests a kind of vulnerability where we seemingly leave ourselves exposed to the world around us and its malice. So easily does the Evil One whisper in our ears, “If you give yourself in such a way, you will undoubtedly find yourself impoverished.” “Would God really ask such a thing from you?” Such thinking makes us very calculating about our lives. We are comfortable with boundaries and sometimes the religious boundaries, the walls that we put up around ourselves in the name of God are the highest and thickest of them all.
Yet, we always have before us Christ crucified - arms outstretched and hanging naked upon the cross. He is mocked in the same way that our own hearts mock the truth when we shrink away from its demands in horror. To “think” about unconditional love always allows us to remain one step removed. If we keep the faith notional, we do not have to live it. The fathers, however, allow us no such luxury. Nor did they have confidence in their own virtue or rectitude. Humility understands one thing – all is Grace. This will forever compel us to look upon others with the generosity of God and ourselves as the recipients of incalculable and unmerited mercy.
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00:14:10 FrDavid Abernethy: dabernethy@gmail.com 00:24:14 LauraLeigh: Not sure how to do this in real life. Last week, I pitched a battle at work, and won. And it was no petty matter. I think it takes a lot of wisdom, a lot of discernment, to do this well. Me, I was lucky. 00:26:37 LauraLeigh: Thankfully, it wasn't about the Faith. 00:28:13 Louise: We lost you Fr. 00:28:14 carol nypaver: Yes 00:30:02 Eric Ewanco: “Here the parallel holds good—it is as absurd to argue men, as to torture them, into believing.” Newman, John Henry, Sermon III, The Usurpations Of Reason, Preached December 11, 1831. MATT. 11:19, Sermons, Chiefly On the Theory of Religious Belief, Preached Before the University of Oxford (London: Francis & John Rivington, 1844), p. 48 00:52:02 Anthony: I do have a concern. I don't want to be a sucker and I resent having been taken for a sucker. That helps drive my engaging religious and cultural discussions and it's why I'm careful in what charitable works I agree to do. 01:00:33 Maureen Cunningham: What about the Book The Way of the Pilgrim Hw would say the Jesus Prayer in silence 01:03:12 Paul Fifer: I see people walk in for help with food, gas, or money quite regularly. Many I know for a fact are gaming the system and it really gets to me at times. I have this quote written down from Mother Theresa to reflect on for those times. “If you judge people, you have no time to love them.” 01:20:19 LauraLeigh: I love this message, but in the moment, I forget them. 01:23:41 John: Thank you Father!
The healing of the soul! So often we lose sight of the meaning of the spiritual life and the disciplines that we embrace. We often look at them as being punitive or requiring us to give up something that we enjoy or take pleasure in. We can lose sight very quickly of the presence of God even in the practice of prayer.
This came forward when we discussed this evening something such as vigils. Rarely is the practice of vigil (breaking one’s sleep to rise and pray at night) ever discussed as a valuable exercise for those not only living in a monastery. To order our appetite for sleep and to break the night for prayer is seen as nonsensical or something that could jeopardize one’s health and well-being or one’s capacity to work.
What we find in the spiritual tradition, however, is a far different vision. Bodily vigil leads to spiritual vigil; that is, spiritual vigilance or alertness. Arising during the quiet of the night, humbled in mind and body, one is able to enter into the deep silence of prayer and receive more freely what God desires to give us. Not experiencing the impediment of worldly distractions or the distractions of a multitude of thoughts we are able to open the mind and the heart to God fully. And in doing so we can also experience the deepest healing.
We begin to lose the desire to escape from reality in the things of this world or in sleep. The opening of the mind and the heart to God through deep prayer can bring about the repairing even of the deepest trauma caused by our own sin or the sins of others. God can pass freely into the deepest recesses of the human heart that learns how to become vulnerable to Him over time through the experience of His love and compassion. Trust emerges and with it hope.
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00:12:48 Nathan: (Thx Father, I'm using the Paulist Press CWS edition so that's helpful) 00:22:34 sharonfisher: I thought it was my dog whining! Lol 00:31:01 Maureen Cunningham: Page please, Thank You 00:31:29 Kevin Burke: 161 00:31:51 Maureen Cunningham: Thank you 00:35:59 John: Would practicing vigils have a positive effect on being subject to deceptive dreams? I've gone down numerous dead ends in the past trying to interpret dreams, or thinking that they were pre-cognitive, but most of them turned out to be mirages. 00:56:56 John: Sounds like vigils are a gateway to "the meat ye know not of." 00:58:43 Louise: Maybe the Beloved has given people insomnia (waking up in the middle of the night) so we can turn to ward Him during this quiet time. 01:00:56 Maureen Cunningham: sleep does not become your master, 01:02:20 Anthony: On vigils, prayers, rosaries, looking at God as the other imposing an obligation on me makes these annoying. But maybe looking at God as the Other Who gave me His image as an integral part of myself would make vigils, etc desirable. 01:03:19 Kate: Father, would you have any advice on how to begin the practice of vigils for someone who does not have a spiritual director who could help incorporate this practice in the interior life? 01:06:09 Anthony: The cell becomes hell 01:13:13 Anthony: The 3 Apostles slept in the Garden out of sorrow. I'll have disordered sleep out of sorrow. 01:15:29 Lee Graham: Prayer changes us 01:18:12 Ren Witter: Yea. The “type and number” narrative about confession really makes the sacrament so transactional, and more like a bad experience with your doctor than an encounter with God. 01:18:15 Bonnie Lewis: Father, I had a priest say that to me in the confessional. It did hurt and surprise me. I've never forgotten it, obviously. 01:18:58 sue and mark: Reacted to "Yea. The “type and n..." with 👍 01:21:46 Greg C: Good comments, Ren. We aren't a vehicle to be serviced. 01:21:47 Maureen Cunningham: You can not easily see a Doctor they zoom 01:25:56 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You , 01:26:12 John: Thank you, Father! 01:26:15 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
If I were to give a title to this evening’s session, it would be “What is the place of the Christian in a post-Christian culture? Even better, “What is the place of the Christian in an age of nihilism? When we begin to consider our conduct in relationship to others, how we are to conform ourselves not simply to a law or teaching but to Christ himself, we are confronted with something quite radical. We are to meet insults, hatred, misunderstandings and aggression with humility. Love is always meant to trump the other things that we hold on to with a firm grip; our own judgment, our own will, our own opinion and the satisfaction of our own desires above the needs of others.
What we are presented with in the teachings of the fathers is rooted in the capacity of the soul for true discernment. The one who is pure of heart is able to see things as God sees them and so see their true value. Therefore, the fathers tell us that in this world we should take the place of a “stranger”; that is, not seeking to have the first word or seeking to have any desire at all except the desire for God and that which draws us toward Him. We are to bend like a reed in the wind when it comes to our relationships with other people. What value does our personal opinion have or the acceptance of some truth that we speak that is greater than love? To stand up against the winds is to court danger; it is to give rise to quarrels and cause trouble.
If we want to live with others, we are not to desire to give them orders, but like Christ we are to become an example of obedience. Even as we read the fathers, we must keep Christ before eyes for he is the standard. In the end, it was His actions that revealed a perfect obedience; an obedience rooted in love and willing to empty itself and take on the form of a servant. We are to strive for this alone – that our love would be cruciform.
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00:09:32 FrDavid Abernethy: page 370 no. 6 00:26:54 Louise: Could we say that, when meeting someone, shaking hands indicates a willingness to welcome the other, to allow a certain form of intimacy and to trust that the other is clean (especially 100 years and more ago when hygiene was questionable)? 00:49:03 Maureen Cunningham: Why is Letting Go soooooo Hard 00:54:55 Ren Witter: I love this story sooo much 00:55:10 Ambrose Little, OP: They just needed Twitter. 00:55:37 Patrick: 😄 01:06:38 Louise: We have to be ready for ridicule, persecution and even martyrdom. 01:12:35 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You, 01:13:23 Ambrose Little, OP: Powerful stuff! 01:13:29 David Fraley: Thank you, Father! 01:13:31 Alexandra K: Thank you Fr
When we think of appetites or bodily desires, we rarely consider something such as sleep. Yet this evening St. John shows us that sleep is something that can disrupt that which is most important for the spiritual life; our prayer. Sleep is certainly an essential need that we have as human beings. However, there are many reasons that we can be drawn into it excessively. One of these is human nature of course. However, sleep can come upon us from an excess of food, from the temptation of demons, and also from extreme or prolonged fasting. Thus, sleeping is important for us to consider closely. Excessive sleeping can become a long-standing habit that is difficult to cure.
It may be difficult for us to think of demons having an impact upon us in this fashion. Yet, when the bell rings for prayer or when the alarm goes off in the morning we can hear a voice within our minds say “Wait, give yourself a little more rest.” In modern days the snooze alarm allows us to extend this indefinitely and we begin our days, perhaps lacking prayer altogether. We can also experience the sensation of severe and unusual pains in the stomach or fits of yawning or even waves of laughter over some amusing incident that comes to mind or takes place within the church.
The same sluggishness in getting out of bed can follow us into the practice of prayer itself. We can hurry through our prayers; saying them inattentively and allowing the mind to wander. We can enter into church without the proper demeanor or making signs of devotion. When these patterns of behavior take over then the demons will certainly make sport of us. To combat this St. John encourages common prayer where we unite ourselves with others in this most essential practice of calling out to God. In this, we can call to mind Jesus’ own words, “Where two or three are gathered, there I am in their midst.“
Often in our day with the breakdown of Christian culture and community, those living in the world, sadly, find themselves left to pray on their own. However, we are not left to ourselves. Through the Hours or the Divine Office we were able to pray with one mind and heart with the Church throughout the world. A deep mystical Communion exist when we engage in the prayer of the Church.
All this is meant to be a simple reminder to us about the subtle things that can distract us at the time of prayer. Therefore, St. John tells us that the practice of prayer itself purifies our hearts and increases our zeal and love for God. The more that we engage in the discipline of prayer, the greater our capacity to rout the demons!
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00:11:06 FrDavid Abernethy: page 160 starting Step 19 00:38:58 sharonfisher: Yes, agree, but we’re not taught properly. (Re:genuflecting) Our western church has cradle Orthodox attendees from time to time. The grace of this one woman’s entrance and adoration was truly beautiful. I asked how she ‘learned’, but sh said she’d just grown up with the reverence displayed. 00:42:15 sharonfisher: We need a manual to get us started! lol 00:43:15 Anthony: The older generation was taught a kind of theology that emphasizes human community. So I think they were misled, thinking they are doing right by having socialization in church. 00:48:09 Lawrence Martone: Re: solitary prayer”for the very few’” Some Third Order members are required to pray the office daily and spend at least 30 minutes in mental prayer daily - along with other requirements (but not under the pain of sin if missed). Only at monthly meetings can we pray lauds or vespers in community. Basically, we have no choice but to pray in solitude for the most part. Isn’t that true of most lay people also? 00:51:51 Louise: Basically, demons are trying to make us turn our attention away from the Beloved. Yet, our present culture is ferociously made up of distractions, engineered with distractions. 00:52:26 TFredman: Replying to "Re: solitary prayer”..." We used to pray Vespers following the 5:15 p.m. Mass Mon-Sat. This was a great blessing to us lay folk. I miss it. 00:52:58 Barbara: Would that we would become attentive to one another! 00:54:07 Lori Hatala: I find it frustrating when the windows are being closed before the priest even leaves the alter. 00:54:10 sharonfisher: Replying to "Re: solitary prayer”..." Does attending live streamed services count? (Hoping yes) 00:54:57 Lawrence Martone: Replying to "Re: solitary prayer”..." To TFredman, 00:55:08 Anthony: We can thank (intentional?) city planning and the heresy of Americanism for harming ethnic Catholic identity. 00:55:18 Lawrence Martone: Replying to "Re: solitary prayer”..." Yes, I would feel the same way. 00:55:29 Ambrose Little, OP: Replying to "Re: solitary prayer”..." Certainly it is better to pray alone than not at all. As one such 3rd order member, I have found the Office to be a tremendous anchor to my spiritual life—even though in most cases I am alone. 00:55:47 Lori Hatala: I tend to go to silent prayer when someone leading or loudly praying is rushing through it. 00:58:09 Ambrose Little, OP: Replying to "Re: solitary prayer”..." There’s a benefit to individual prayer in that there is time to pause and meditate on things that strike you. Can’t really do that in community. 00:58:52 Bonnie Lewis: Reacted to "Certainly it is bett..." with ❤️ 00:59:05 Bonnie Lewis: Reacted to "There’s a benefit to..." with ❤️ 00:59:12 sue and mark: Reacted to "Certainly it is bett..." with ❤️ 01:02:15 Susan M: I personally am very grateful for ZOOM 01:02:35 Kevin Burke: Reacted to "I personally am very…" with 👌 01:03:21 Rebecca Thérèse: I'm very grateful for Zoom and livestreamed prayer. 01:07:39 Lawrence Martone: Replying to "We can thank (intent..." E. Michael Jones - “The Slaughter of Cities.” 01:08:09 sharonfisher: Reacted to "There’s a benefit to..." with ❤️ 01:10:14 Susan M: Henri Nouwen was my teacher for 3 courses 1971-74. Very blessed time. 01:10:55 Paul Grazal: Reacted to "I find it frustratin…" with 😇 01:11:35 TFredman: Reacted to "I personally am very..." with 👌 01:11:39 carol: Reacted to "Henri Nouwen was my ..." with ❤️ 01:11:45 TFredman: Reacted to "Henri Nouwen was my ..." with ❤️ 01:13:52 Ambrose Little, OP: Reacted to "Henri Nouwen was my ..." with ❤️ 01:14:22 Paul Grazal: Reacted to "I personally am very…" with ❤️ 01:15:04 Cindy Moran: Great session, thank you Father 01:15:12 Rebecca Thérèse: thank you🙂 01:15:21 Rory: Thanks, father 01:15:21 Deiren Masterson: God bless Father 01:15:30 Courtney Wiley: Thank you Father.
“In the deserts of the heart
Let the healing fountain start.”
W.H. Auden (1907-1973)
“The road of cleansing goes through that desert. It shall be named the way of holiness.”
Isaiah 35.8 (LXX)
It has been said that all true renewal within the life of the church comes through the desert fathers, or rather through the embrace of their wisdom. For it is not a worldly wisdom but the wisdom of the gospel, the wisdom of the kingdom that they set before us; not in an abstract fashion but through lived experience.
The desert fathers looked deep within; precisely where Christ directs us to search for the kingdom. It’s not an easy thing to do; to look deep within oneself. Often what begins to emerge can seem ugly and repulsive to us. Sin has not left us untouched. We know its darkness, its suffering, and how it shapes the way we view ourselves, the world, and others.
However, this inward gaze and the ascetic life aids us in seeing with a greater clarity not only our sin but the image of something beautiful beyond imagination; the soul made in the image and likeness of God, transformed and transfigured by his grace. Even in the midst of the struggle, the beauty of God‘s mercy and grace begins to manifest itself, and to reshape the human heart. We begin to understand that the perfection to which we are called is not moral perfection; nor is it the perfection of our natural virtues. It is to share in the very life of God. Christ strength is to become our strength. His virtue is to become our virtue.
It has been said the Christ is the most beautiful of all human beings. In him, we see what we shall be through the grace of God. All that is dark in us, all that becomes an impediment to our ability to love gradually begins to fade away. We no longer cling to the demands of our own will or the pettiness of our ego. We begin to see that in Christ we have all and lack nothing. It is in this realization that we become truly free and capable of love. How beautiful!
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00:05:20 FrDavid Abernethy: Starting Hypothesis 42 page 367 00:13:23 FrDavid Abernethy: Starting Hypothesis 42 page 367 00:20:45 John: Kind of reminds me of the Jews who went out to see John the Baptist to ask who he was - though I don't think they were being critical. 00:20:59 Ren Witter: For Father David’s favorite comic about Stylites: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=6720341144666823&set=pb.100000730124605.-2207520000.&type=3 00:21:39 John: Reacted to "For Father David’s f..." with 😂 00:51:35 iPhone (61): What page or book are we on Blessings 00:56:07 Rachel: 🤪 00:56:35 Rachel: I love that story. 00:56:37 Ren Witter: Can I say that to the next person who yells at me? “Imitate the Statue” :-D 00:58:46 Rachel: Fun. :/ 00:59:06 Rachel: Reacted to "Can I say that to ..." with 👍 00:59:10 iPhone (61): I think we are suppose become like the statue. 01:02:39 Ashley Kaschl: This might be a leap in relation to this analogy with the stone statue but I have been having conversations about Filial Confidence in God. Isaiah 50:7 says, “The Lord God is my help, therefore I am not disgraced; Therefore I have set my face like flint, knowing that I shall not be put to shame.” If the monks in this passage agree to both enter into this life combatting their lower faculties which suggests doing battle against disordered sensibilities, then it also relates to the grace of an inflexible resolve that, no matter what happens to them, all is passing away compared to eternal glory in Christ; they have set their faces like flint against all struggles that may come. I think the goal, then, is to enter into ourselves and do battle so as to become docile and not react in the extremes, to repose ourselves like children in the arms of our Heavenly Father. 01:02:49 Rachel: You cant project it on to Christ. The all innocent and Perfect One. 01:05:16 Rachel: Reacted to "This might be a le..." with ❤️ 01:05:33 Ashley Kaschl: Yes! That is what I meant by docile as well. Not a passivity but one who can be directed or taught as you said 😁🙏 01:07:44 Alexandra K: Reacted to "This might be a leap..." with 👍 01:08:56 John: A bit ironic that flint produces a spark when struck by steel or something similar. However, docility implies that this spark is not anger, but charity. 01:09:08 iPhone (61): Guilty of all these that you mentioned. I am grateful 01:09:15 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "A bit ironic that fl…" with 🔥 01:11:16 Alexandra K: Reacted to "A bit ironic that fl..." with 👍 01:12:22 Sheila Applegate: Reacted to "A bit ironic that fl..." with 🔥 01:12:28 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "Guilty of all these …" with 💯 01:17:06 Susanna Joy: Thank you, Father. 🙏💖
Darkness, whatever its source, cannot be driven out or overcome by mere force of will or through reason. The fathers reveal to us a darkness that exists within the human heart like no other - insensibility. It is a deadening of the soul and the death of the mind before the death of the body. We all have our vulnerabilities and have experienced wounds on both spiritual and emotional levels. To address this darkness requires an even greater trust in the grace of God to guide us through it and to provide us with what is necessary for healing. Each person is unique and with certain predispositions, including the predisposition to a more melancholic or morose state of mind. Furthermore, the human mind and heart are ever so changeable.
It is also how the evil one can use these things to distort our vision of reality. We can be engaged in the religious and spiritual life and speaking about it and yet this can mask not only a sham piety but something even darker. We can live in the dark so long that it becomes the place of comfort. To move toward the light can be painful, especially if one has experienced trauma.
More than any of the passions the remedy for this darkness consists of relying upon the grace of God and being drawn into the tenderness of Christ’s love. When our trust has been destroyed, we must allow Him to rebuild it. Where desire has been lost, we must wait for the Beloved to come to us to stir it into flame. Where wounds are so deep that they seem irreparable, it is only He who is the Lord of Life who can re-create us.
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Text of chat during the group: 00:13:51 Susan M: Thank you for introducing me to the Optina Monastery and Elders! Am buying the recommended book. 00:26:47 John: Are all these internal contradictions the same as hypocrisy, or is that a different malady? 00:39:22 sharonfisher: That’s so interesting. I find myself unwilling to be around these really negative people. I love them, but I have my own issues battling depression. It’s hard to do both at once. 00:50:23 Ren Witter: I wonder - would these people really appear very negative on the exterior? So much of the description involves teaching or speaking, and most often those who take up that role are very dynamic and charismatic personalities. It seems like the melancholy aspect might kind of hidden. 01:01:36 Kate: Fr. David, Is this also known as sloth? Or is that a different vice? 01:01:41 Ren Witter: I’ve been told that this, or something very similar to it, can be caused by a traumatic event - particularly one involving the Church in some way. Are fasting and vigils still the only way to begin fighting it in that case? 01:06:20 Ren Witter: “He and I” is also a very good one. 01:06:43 carol nypaver: Can you please repeat the name of the French priest and his book? 01:07:21 Louise: Gaston Courtois is the name of the French priest. 01:07:31 carol nypaver: Thank you! 01:09:32 David Swiderski: My experience is this often is connected to resentment and lack of detachment. Anyone digging up wounds from the past or worrying about the future cannot help themselves from falling into despair. 01:13:25 Louise: In my clinical experience, it was my willingness as a psychotherapist to be there with the, to remain with them despite the intensity of their pain, which was healing - I did not abandon them as they were experiencing abandonment depression from early childhood. 01:17:10 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father! 01:17:10 Lorraine Green: Thank you Father 01:17:15 David Swiderski: Thanks father! 01:17:17 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
The conclusion of hypothesis 41 was as beautiful as it was convicting. The fathers speak of a stability of mind and heart that deepens through the ascetic life and allows us to see the most subtle movements either toward or away from God. This subtlety of perception is unmatched in the spiritual tradition. The ascetic life revealed to the fathers not only sin and its manifestations, but the power of God’s grace to transform our lives in such a way that every impediment is removed that prevents us from loving unconditionally. The ascetical life is not an end in itself. It allows us to “ascend the cross”, the fathers tell us. The purity of heart that is achieved through it, the freedom from the passions, allows us to love in a self-emptying fashion, and to truly abandon ourselves to the will of God. Every illusion is set aside and one gradually comes to see with greater and greater clarity that “all is grace”. It is then that the desire for God compels us in our every word, thought, and action!
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00:25:38 Anthony: Perhaps something should be allowed for different characters or temperaments. Maybe this is a reason Westerners have different orders. 00:30:05 Louise: Was the Ethiopian a demon or a hallucination? 00:43:12 maureencunningham: Longest road is from the head to heart 00:50:34 Ernest: So doesn’t it help to have a spiritual director to regularly guide your path. 00:54:06 John: There's a book called "Talking Back" by Evagrius which has a variation of mocking evil thoughts: he supplies verses of Scripture against a whole variety of evil thoughts. 01:07:53 Ernest: But doesn’t one experience these higher gifts, greater than earthly bread, when one receives Holy Communion…the real presence of Jesus? 01:10:52 Louise: In the Sufi mystical tradition, the disciple-to-be had to wash the latrine for 5 years, and only that. Afterward, he could attend the meetings with the Sufi master, where he was mostly bashed, laughed at, lied to, publicly humiliated, etc. while love was produced in his heart. What a way to chose the heart! 01:12:44 Paul Grazal: +1 01:17:30 Paul Grazal: Amen. Thank you Father 01:18:56 maureencunningham: Beautifully said Thank You. 01:19:25 David Fraley: Thank you, Father! 01:19:28 Lorraine Green: Thank you very much Father
Freedom! We often associate this word with our own rights in this world or our capacity to do as we will and go where we want. A kind of promise is put out to us - life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
Yet the image of freedom that is put before us by the saints and by Saint John in particular is attached to our willingness to be “detached” from the things of the world. God created all things good but in our sin our tendency is to idolize them. We seek our identity and happiness in the things of this world and we work ourselves to the point of exhaustion to protect these things as well as ourselves from others. We do not want to lose what we have or what we have earned.
Yet we very quickly learn that this is no real happiness. In fact, it is the root of all evils. The deeper that root becomes, the greater our desire for the things of this world grows. It begins to produce the fruit of hatred, thefts, envy, separations, enmities, storms, remembrance of wrong, hardheartedness, and murderers. Therefore, what we hold up as having so much value for ourselves, and what seems to promise us freedom and safety eventually becomes our prison or the shackles that bind us. It is only in having tasted the things above that one begins to find joy, freedom from care, and the loss of anxiety. If we obtain this virtue, John tells us, we run the race with the swiftness of athletes of old - that is, stripped and unimpeded.
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00:11:00 Rebecca Thérèse: Yes happy birthday! 00:11:34 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Yes happy birthday!" with 🎂 00:15:23 Lawrence Martone: Fr. Abernethy, 00:15:50 Lawrence Martone: What is your opinion of The Noon Day Devil book? 00:22:32 Connor: Re: point 1 - Prayer of the Last Optina Elders: O Lord, grant me to greet the coming day in peace, help me in all things to rely upon your holy will. In every hour of the day reveal your will to me. Bless my dealings with all who surround me. Teach me to treat all that comes to throughout the day with peace of soul and with firm conviction that your will governs all. In all my deeds and words, guide my thoughts and feelings. In unforeseen events, let me not forget that all are sent by you. Teach me to act firmly and wisely, without embittering and embarrassing others. Give me strength to bear the fatigue of the coming day with all that it shall bring. Direct my will, teach me to pray. And you, yourself, pray in me. Amen. 00:26:01 Susan M: Father, who are the last Optina Elders? 00:28:04 Connor: Guess I’m the quote guy today: “All our peace in this sad life lieth in humble suffering rather than in not feeling adversities. He who best knoweth how to suffer shall possess the most peace; that man is conqueror of himself and lord of the world, the friend of Christ, and the inheritor of heaven.” — a Kempis (Imitation of Christ) 00:31:14 Eric Ewanco: Do we know the Greek for "non-possessive" (my translation uses "poor"/"poverty" but I like your translation better)? 00:31:52 Connor: Replying to "Father, who are the …" “Over the course of one century—from Elder Leonid's arrival in 1829 until the Monastery's forced closure by the Communists in 1923—Optina, with its Skete of St. John the Forerunner, was at the center of a tremendous spiritual revival in Russia.” https://orthochristian.com/65171.html 00:31:59 John: Replying to "Do we know the Greek..." So does mine (archive.org). 00:32:39 Connor: I was responding to a question Father, no need to read it lol. 00:35:18 Susan M: Thank you. 00:37:14 Connor: Replying to "Do we know the Greek…" ἀκτημοσύνης in response to Greek for non-possessiveness. Literally “landless.” 00:45:31 Anthony: To forget the Beatific Vision is to merely fight the devil mostly conscious of your own efforts. Been there. Done that / Doing that. Not healthy. 00:52:44 Connor: St. Louis de Montfort famously got into bar fights over Our Lady’s honor… even after his ordination… 00:57:03 Anthony: Regarding "principles" in our Anglo-American world it seems to me some of our principles have been developed and used to harden us against conscience and towards vice. 00:57:16 Louise: I find that it is mostly the human gesture and the smile in return that is the gift, beyond the money given; the person feels treated as a human being at this moment. 00:57:41 Anthony: Reacted to "I find that it is mo..." with ❤️ 00:57:49 Anthony: Replying to "I find that it is mo..." I agree 01:18:40 Cindy Moran: Thank you 01:18:43 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
The Mystery of the Human Person!
What comes forward in the ascetical writings of the fathers is not a moralistic or legalistic view of sin. Rather, we see within them a deep understanding of the complex beauty and dignity of the human person despite often being marred by sin. Perhaps too often we emphasize the negative; rather than fostering a desire both for God and for virtue and for the freedom and joy that it brings to the human heart.
Like so many of the fathers, Saint John describes certain passions as a disease in need of remedy. While we must be disciplined in so many ways and vigilant in our thoughts, we never want to lose sight of how God has created us; that it is through our very being that we love and give ourselves in love. We are not meant to hate ourselves but rather sin. Self-contempt can often be our demise in the spiritual life. True love of the self begins with the desire for God; not with self-indulgence or laziness that reduces and diminishes the image we have of creation and our own goodness.
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00:12:42 Ashley Kaschl: I was trying to say we have a diocesan hermit so if you DO want to stay, he’s got room haha 00:34:50 Louise: An amazing movie just came out, called 'Sound of Freedom, about combatting child sex trafficking. Being a trauma therapist myself, I can only fathom that pedophilia is due to demonic influence. These people are untreatable. What are your thoughts? 00:35:22 carol nypaver: It was a very informative and well-done film! 00:36:43 David Swiderski: Doesn't abuse of food or lust devalue these things. I know when I break a long fast water taste sweeter, food is savored and so when we truly develop love rather than just physical attraction or objectification. The diamond is often hidden by the dirt on the outside. 00:39:33 Louise: By the way, 2.5% of priests abuse children sexually, 5% of physicians, and 10% of school teachers, according to three studies. 00:44:21 Art: What do you mean Father? 00:55:03 Charbel & Justin: “Prefer nothing to the love of God.” 01:10:59 Louise: Thanks, Fr. Abernethy! I must go. 01:12:17 Ashley Kaschl: I am friends with many people who are constantly worried about money, about their paychecks, jobs, etc. and it prevents them from choosing to move forward in their potential vocations, so they put it off and put it off and put it off. I think some of the downsides of our culture, and even the mindset of many who come out of universities today, is this absolute concern about climbing the ladder in their jobs or this habit formed to always look for “greener grass”/better opportunities. And this demand of function over substance makes me think of a quote by CS Lewis: “In a sort of ghastly simplicity we remove the organ and demand the function. We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honour and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and bid the geldings be fruitful.” 01:16:42 John: There's an old Rod Serling movie about the corporate mindset (ladder-climbing) called "Patterns." 01:17:16 Monk Maximos: Good night 01:17:51 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you ☺️ 01:17:53 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father 01:17:56 Jeff O.: Thank you! 01:18:04 Art: Thank you! 01:18:17 Jeff O.: 🎉🎉🎉 01:18:22 Monk Maximos: Flying to the Holy Land on Saturday. Will be praying for you. 01:18:30 David Swiderski: Have a wonderful Birthday Father! 01:18:34 Eric Ewanco: happy birthday!
Avoidance: often this can be the fundamental reason that an individual gravitates towards solitude, religious, or otherwise. We do not want to be in the presence of others, because it is there that we stand revealed - not only in their eyes, but in our own. In our interactions with others, we begin to see our dominant passions and the poverty of our sin. Our weak spots, blind spots and hard spots become perfectly evident to us. It is for this reason that the desert fathers counsel spending many years in the common life because it is there that true purification takes place. It is in our day-to-day struggle with the movement of our own thoughts and emotions and interactions with others, that sin is overcome and virtue begins to grow. To flee into solitude, prematurely, and even with the highest spiritual aspirations, promises only danger. It is perilous to enter into deep silence alone. If one falls, there is no one to pick them up. If one is swallowed up by delusion, there is no one to set them aright. How can we repent without having the other as one to whom we can direct our compassion or who reveals our darker side?
Silence can never be an escape. In fact, silence can only be loved by one who has been freed from every impediment in order to encounter He who is Love and find true respite and peace in Him.
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00:04:13 FrDavid Abernethy: page 359 Letter C From Abba Mark 00:04:17 FrDavid Abernethy: Welcome Sandy 00:11:11 FrDavid Abernethy: page 359 Letter C 00:15:40 Cindy Moran: Is this like a consecrated virgin? 00:26:06 LauraLeigh: Replying to "Is this like a conse..." Cindy, I think it is probably different, in that you can continue to live in the world in any way you feel called as a consecrated virgin, but I believe that being a hermit involves deliberately leaving the world to live apart, yet following the monastic rule. Maybe Father can add or correct this. 00:27:38 Cindy Moran: Thank you! 00:27:39 LauraLeigh: Replying to "Is this like a conse..." Your diocesan office will probably have someone who can answer questions about both. 00:27:50 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "Thank you!" with 👍 00:31:41 Rachel: This reminds me of Saint Paul stating that he doesn't even judge himself. Years ago this statement left me wondering at what he meant and have now come to believe that what Cassian is saying is the same thing that Saint Paul was saying. He had a thorn in the flesh, knew a man taken up to the third Heaven yet does not even judge himself. Not even stopping to examen himself except to boast in his weakness in order to glorify God's great mercy. 00:32:15 LauraLeigh: Seems like, whether in community or as a hermit, one needs to be prepared to be a "plucky fighter"! 00:32:22 Eric Ewanco: Can you relate these eremitic hazards to ordinary laymen who live involuntarily alone but in the world? Obviously some hazards apply, but some may not. Can you comment? 00:32:39 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "Can you relate these..." with 👍 00:32:55 LauraLeigh: Replying to "Can you relate these..." This is my question too. 00:38:05 LauraLeigh: The thing is, though, about living alone in the world, you know very well that there is no one there to catch you when you fall. Everything 00:45:47 Anthony: I suggest that maybe women have more living examples of a secular spiritual life since widows with their maturity and their link to other widows are more common than widowers 00:45:51 Anthony: Grand torino 00:46:25 Eric Ewanco: Oh that's where that came from! I've used that. :-) 00:52:47 LauraLeigh: Thank you for not running off to a cabin in the woods, Father. 00:53:26 melissa kummerow: Reacted to "Thank you for not ru..." with 👆 00:54:12 Anthony: Sometimes I think we try too hard to be good Catholics, so hard that we dispel that peace we might otherwise have if we didn't try so hard , since trying too hard can focus us on our turbulent selves. Perhaps it's to have a hobby and cigar and an occasional prayer than making and measuring ourselves against a lot of self imposed religious obligations. 00:56:55 Eric Ewanco: With all due respect to Tolkien, I'd rather live under corrupt government than anarchy. 00:57:21 sue and mark: Reacted to "Sometimes I think we..." with ❤️ 00:58:09 Patrick: Reacted to "Sometimes I think ..." with ❤️ 01:09:39 Anthony: Or by taking obligation to pray and fast because you're going to fight evil......that _can_ lead to obsessive type of behavior for an ostensibly good reason. It's perhaps like a modern day "Children's Crusade." 01:12:34 John: Yesterday's Gueranger article talks about exterior-only asceticism: "The Jewish casuists were not slow in drawing up their famous formula, that all moral goodness was guaranteed to him that had received circumcision! St. Paul, later on, told them how such a principle was a stumbling-block to the Gentiles, leading them to blaspheme the name of God. According to the moral theology of these Hebrew doctors, conscience meant only what the tribunal of public justice issued as its decisions: the obligations of the interior tribunal of a man’s conscience were to be restricted to the rules followed by the assize-courts. The result of such teaching soon showed itself: the only thing people need care for was what was seen by men; if the fault were not one that human eyes could judge of, you were not to trouble about it." 01:17:24 Louise: Thanks, Fr. Abernethy! 01:18:22 sue and mark: Thank you 01:18:32 Rachel: Thank you
The fathers have often been accused of having a negative anthropology; that is, a negative view of the human person and human nature. However, as we read through St. John’s teachings on chastity and purity, we begin to see that their understanding arises from a very high and exalted anthropology. Their understanding of how God has made us, the beauty that is expressed in our very nature is so high that we must respect its preciousness as a gift from God. Furthermore we must also respect the power that lies within us and that it is through this nature that we are able to love and give ourselves in love to others and serve God.
Indeed, it is true that sin has darkened our vision of this truth and our will has often become weak so that we misuse our nature and the appetites associated with it. Yet, God looks upon us with mercy and compassion and gives us every aid for healing. It is the Evil One that becomes our accuser who tries through shame to draw us into despair.
Part of the relentless nature of our struggle with these sins is that we are forever bound by nature to this body of ours. Yet we must remember in the struggle that the body is destined to put on immortality and incorruptibility by God’s grace. We are called all even now to make use of our body through the ascetic life to share in this incorruptibility through purity of heart.
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00:03:31 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: What step? 00:03:59 FrDavid Abernethy: Page 151 paragraph 76 00:20:36 Anthony: I wonder if "worm" means not the helpful compost bug, but is really the Anglo Saxon "wyrm" or dragon. 00:26:32 melissa kummerow: Reacted to "I wonder if "worm" m..." with 💡 00:27:51 Louise: Disgust and shame are useful emotions when we apply them onto our faults. Otherwise, we justify our faults. Would you say? 00:30:36 LauraLeigh: It seems to me that St Climacas, like other Desert Fathers, ask for a very difficult mental balance between being uber-humble while maintaining a healthy psychology. If you don't have a strong grip on your mental health, this ascetical lifestyle could trip you up or even take you down. Other than recommending a guide, like an elder, any thoughts about how we can cautiously yet profitably practice asceticism? 00:31:20 Anthony: I learned something, I think from a talk by a Maronite. It can be helpful to pray Jesus Prayer in another language. Sometimes that prevents thoughts in one's native tongue from arising in the mind. 00:34:39 LauraLeigh: I need to remember that the Fathers are talking to others already in the ascetical life. And then to remember to order everything toward God. 00:35:46 sue and mark: could it be said that simply looking for opportunities to practice self -restraint for the love of God is a good place to start. especially in the areas of our passions. 00:36:06 angelo: Reacted to "could it be said tha..." with 👍 00:42:13 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "could it be said tha..." with ❤️ 00:43:01 LauraLeigh: "The Way of the Ascetics" 00:46:46 carol nypaver: The Little Flower 00:52:15 Anthony: Remember: the demons don't play fair. 00:53:24 Cindy Moran: In the Classics of western spirituality version of the Ladder this verse translation is unclear to me 00:54:11 Cindy Moran: Yes. 00:54:40 Cindy Moran: I'm slow 00:56:14 Cindy Moran: Because the soul tormented by earlier sin is a burden to me I will save it from its enemies Lk 18:5 00:59:15 Cindy Moran: Much clearer to me now 01:05:31 LauraLeigh: Being proud of your sins is a sign of a darkened conscience, I think. And a sensitive and refined conscience is a great help in getting a handle on troubling or persistent sins. This is what I'm particularly working on. 01:06:36 angelo: Reacted to "Being proud of your ..." with 👍 01:08:26 Anthony: I think it also means that you've entrusted yourself to God, He won't play legal games with that trust and so the evil thoughts are not as awful upon us as the devil wants us to think. Sure the devil is a deceiver and wants us to take full mortal sin culpability for what the demons sows. But the struggle is evidence God loves you and takes your whole self and situation into account. 01:09:25 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "I think it also mean..." with ❤️ 01:10:30 angelo: Reacted to "I think it also mean..." with 👍 01:10:37 Eric Ewanco: I've found it immensely consoling that empirical evidence from exorcisms establish that demons are extremely legalistic. The converse of this is that God is not. This is a great relief to me, as we often tend to see God as legalistic and looking for "gotchas" 01:12:08 John: After you've read Fr. Mateo's "Night Adoration in the Home," it's impossible to think of God as legalistic. He is the complete opposite! 01:12:21 sue and mark: Reacted to "After you've read Fr..." with ❤️ 01:12:34 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "After you've read Fr..." with ❤️ 01:12:50 LauraLeigh: Replying to "After you've read Fr..." I have that! Thanks for the reminder! 01:13:05 Susan McShane: Reacted to "I've found it immens..." with ❤️ 01:13:05 John: Replying to "After you've read Fr..." 👍 01:13:23 sue and mark: I have that too... 01:14:53 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:14:54 Louise: Thanks, Fr! 01:14:58 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father...excellent session 01:15:02 Jeff O.: Thank you! Blessings
In the advertisement for and description of this evening’s group, I wrote: “How does one deal with feelings of desolation in regards to one’s vocation, resentment towards others, being treated with envy or finding one’s circumstances to be a source of temptation? In the face of the many trials brought upon us by the evil one, great perseverance is needed and freedom from self will.” This description, however, does not capture the depth of the wisdom that we were exposed to this evening. All of our asceticism, all the ways that we seek to remove the impediment of our passions, all the ways that we seek to remain focused upon the spiritual battle that lies within the heart has one end: to bring us to the place where we can enter into the Paschal Mystery in union with Christ. Not one of us should seek to leave the training, ground of the spiritual life prematurely or to choose to rest before God grants it. For it is precisely in this battle that all that remains an impediment to our ascending the cross with Christ is removed. Abba Isaiah, in the richest and most beautiful interpretation of the Passion, unpacks for us the meaning of every experience of our Lord; not that we might reflect upon it in an abstract fashion, but that we would take hold of His experiences as our own. We engage in the ascetical life not to reach the kind of moral perfection or emotional Nirvana but rather that we might reach the place where we can ascend the Cross with Christ. Once we are delivered from all of these things, we pass through our own Passion Week and enter into another, new age, thinking new and incorrupt thoughts. We are reminded of St. Paul’s words, “set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For you’re dead.“ We leave our sins behind and find mercy together with those who are worthy of Him!
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00:10:59 FrDavid Abernethy: page 353 paragraph 4 00:11:16 FrDavid Abernethy: And Elder said: “Just as a tree . . . . 00:32:56 Anthony: I suggest that the various revolutions, including the American, were designed to uproot a stable society. The mass migrations of the late 1800s to 1900s were caused by Socialist governments displacing their peasants. This uprooted stability and is a root of our mental and moral afflictions today. 00:36:36 Anthony: The honest peasant is an essential character for Solzhenitsyn. 00:37:05 Louise: Focus 00:37:07 Anthony: Vanishing point 00:37:40 Zoom user: True North 00:37:54 Carol: touchstone 00:40:59 Anthony: The reformation was a symptom of society failing in its "monastic " vocation. 00:48:48 Louise: Sartre 00:50:38 Louise: Ste-Thérèse-de-Lisieux forced herself to hang out with the most annoying nun in the convent in order to confront her impatience and find her deeper loving kindness. 01:19:37 Louise: Thank you, Fr. Abernethy! 01:19:43 sheri: Thank you.
Gustave Flaubert once wrote, “God is in the details.“ The truth of this statement is born out in this evening‘s writing from Saint John Climacus on the fathers’ understanding and description of the development of a passion within the soul. With great clarity, St. John takes us step-by-step through the inner movements of the mind and the heart. The battle begins with an assault. An image or an idea is encountered for the first time and enters into the heart. There’s no sin in this, but our response is important nonetheless. If we begin to converse with the image or idea its presence will take us a step further. We cannot allow ourselves to linger with such images even if we do not seem to be moved by them. Eventually, Saint John tells us, if we do linger we can fall into consent; the soul bends down, as it were, and begins to take delight in the temptation. Such temptations can also come upon us with force; seeking all at once to destroy any semblance of order or peace within the heart. What is important is that we struggle; that we engage in the spiritual battle and fight with equal or greater force against what seeks to afflict us. A passion develops whenever a sin nestles with persistence in the soul and forms a habit. It is then that the sins has put down deep roots and begins to guide and direct our decisions and actions. The passion is unequivocally condemned in every case. St. John tells us, therefore, that we must seek to cut off the first assault with a single blow in order to prevent everything that might follow.
Finally, Saint John reveals to us just how humble we must be in the spiritual warfare. There are temptations that can come to us that he describes as a “flick of the mind”. They are instantaneous and inapprehensible. There can be something in our life that triggers a memory or movement from the depths of our unconscious. It gives rise to or stirs a passion that has not been healed, but merely buried. All of this teaches us that our desire must be directed toward God and God alone. The human heart can be a treacherous thing, and as the prophet asks, “who can trust it?“ It is God alone who we must trust. We must hope in his promises and the grace that he offers us from moment to moment. This is our path to healing.
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00:14:15 FrDavid Abernethy: page 150 para 72 00:15:34 angelo: Reacted to "page 150 para 72" with 👍 00:19:25 Daniel Allen: Joined a little late, where are we at? 00:19:40 Bonnie Lewis: 72 00:19:55 Daniel Allen: Thank you 00:20:05 Bonnie Lewis: Reacted to "Thank you" with 👍🏻 00:20:37 Anthony: Read Agatha Christie, and this doesn't seem to strange. 00:40:17 Lawrence Martone: Pope Shenouda says “Be aware then, of the first step toward sin and run for your life. You are not stronger than Adam…” 00:40:49 carol nypaver: 😲 00:43:16 Louise: Would you say that repentance involves feeling pain from having hurt another? This pain thus becomes a stimulus to possibly prevent the future repetition of this sin. 00:52:31 Anthony: A person can be so focused on avoiding temptation that the person's psychology or demons or something else can constantly bring to mind the thing to be avoided - kind of making the temptation always present. Maybe it's an after-effect of eating from the tree we were not to eat. 01:06:49 Cindy Moran: Going postal 01:07:34 LauraLeigh: Blindsided. 01:10:31 Rory: May I speak 01:10:55 Patrick: Fr. David, can you please clarify the meaning of 'dispassion' in the last sentence of 15.74? Is it synonymous with asceticism in this context? 01:11:18 Anthony: But is he saying the flick of the mind actual moral guilt? How much of this fault, how much is over-focus on the self? Be focused too much on this, be too sensitive, and you can go nutty, not be a "man fully alive." That's surely not good. Our Lord was supremely sensitive to good and evil, but He was also self-possessed. It's possible even these saints went a little self-obsessed and accidentally project that forward to us. It interferes with life to always be aware of every possibly evil and continually feel guilty. 01:16:31 Daniel Allen: How does this relate to Christ saying, “Do not let your heart be troubled. Believe in God, believe in Me also.” 01:17:54 Daniel Allen: To expand on that question, if a flick of the mind can cast us into sin without any noticeable stimulus how does one not become troubled? 01:18:39 Ren Witter: Replying to "How does this relate..." Maybe the context of that is pretty important in this case. At that moment he is speaking about his crucifixion. At the same time, he also says of the peace he wants his disciples to have: “not as the world gives it do I give it to you." 01:20:40 David Swiderski: One must quiet the mind to hear the voice of God who is like a whisper on the wind while the devil is a constant irritating and rattling of the passions. 01:21:07 Bonnie Lewis: Reacted to "One must quiet the m..." with 👍🏻 01:21:35 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂 01:22:14 Cindy Moran: Replying to "How does this relate..." Thank you Father! 01:22:23 David Swiderski: Thank you Father! 01:22:25 Bonnie Lewis: So beautiful. Thank you Father David. 01:22:28 kevin: thanks Ren and Fr
The beauty of virtue! So often we discuss the spiritual life as if the main goal or the end of it is simply the avoidance of sin. While avoiding sin certainly is essential, we are called to something far greater. What we received through the Paschal mystery and through our baptism is adoption as sons and daughters of God; the capacity by grace to share in the life of the Trinity. The fathers speak of deification.
As we read through Saint John’s description of purity and chastity, these truths begin to manifest themselves. We engage in this constant struggle with our own appetites and with the temptations from the demons not simply to avoid sin, but to give and receive love in the way God intended; for that love to be rightly ordered and also, by grace, to become something that is supernatural.
We are to love one another as Christ has loved us. It is often very difficult for us to understand this because more often than not we have never tasted the fruit of this virtue. We are surrounded by its opposite; and often have been immersed in that which is impure for most of our lives. Yet, even as we struggle for this virtue, we must not fall into a purely moralistic or legalistic view of life. It is through entering into the love of Christ and receiving that love through the holy Eucharist, that we are given the capacity to love in a selfless fashion. Furthermore, it is also through this Grace that we become capable of receiving such love without any impediment. May God open our eyes to the beauty of the life that He is made possible for us and the beauty of virtue!
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00:08:51 FrDavid Abernethy: page 149 para 63 00:10:20 FrDavid Abernethy: page 149 para 63 “When we are in the world for some necessity” 00:35:38 Louise: If King David repented, why did his kingdom went down so badly via his descendance (Solomon)? 00:45:49 Eric Ewanco: He's referring to Peter who Scripture said had a mother-in-law 00:48:07 Lawrence Martone: Regarding the question on David, I would highly recommend: 00:48:51 angelo: Reacted to "452E4EA7-2A85-4B45-9031-4D3B09714915_1_102_a.jpeg" with 👍 00:49:43 Louise: Thanks to both! 00:52:06 Cindy Moran: Reacted to "452E4EA7-2A85-4B45-9031-4D3B09714915_1_102_a.jpeg" with 👍 00:52:18 TFredman: Reacted to "452E4EA7-2A85-4B45-9031-4D3B09714915_1_102_a.jpeg" with 👍 00:53:45 angelo: Replying to "452E4EA7-2A85-4B45-9031-4D3B09714915_1_102_a.jpeg" it is free on pdf file in St. Philopateer Coptic Orthodox website. 01:02:32 Anthony: Long ingrained habits can be at play. In NY, I remember Talk Radio or Frank Sinatra etc often being in the background. It can be uncomfortable not to have something in the background. 01:08:16 Cindy Moran: Th orthodox seem to have more involved night prayer in their books. 01:13:13 Cindy Moran: I've done that at times...LOL 01:15:19 Rebecca Thérèse: Until very recently it was common for everyone to have two sleeps broken by some kind of activity in the middle of the night even including going out and visiting others 01:18:12 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father...Happy Father's Day, too! 01:18:17 angelo: thank you 01:18:19 TFredman: Thank you Fr. Abernethy and everyone! 01:18:19 Jeff O.: thank you! 01:18:19 David Swiderski: Thank you 01:18:22 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:18:28 kevin: Thank you
Stability of mind and heart: such are the characteristics of those who live the ascetic life. The mystery of the human person is such that we must suspend judgment of others as well as judgment of ourselves.
On a psychological level, things are multi- determined. In other words, many things coalesce to form our thoughts and actions. Therefore, we must be very cautious in the spiritual life not to act quickly when tempted to leave our state of life or vocation. The change of mere externals does not bring healing. The passions that often drive us in the way that we view circumstances and others are only healed through persevering through many trials.
We are ever so changeable. This is our great struggle and vulnerability, but it is also what allows us to repent. When we see our own sin or when we come to recognize the truth or when an illusion is revealed, we can turn toward God and cling to him and the healing he alone offers. “The Lord is an eternal rock”, the Scriptures tell us. Therefore, we must rest upon him. In him alone do we begin to experience an invincible peace and an unshakable hope.
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00:17:56 FrDavid Abernethy: page 351 para 11 00:33:42 Ambrose Little, OP: There are those who say that you are “lukewarm” if you don’t get upset about bad stuff happening in the world. 00:44:33 David Fraley: Reacted to "There are those who …" with 👍 00:47:50 Zoom user: Whoa 00:57:08 John Ingram: I've seen some of the psychological evaluation questions that are asked of candidates for the priesthood. They are truly bizarre and disturbing - and disconcerting. 00:58:40 Louise: Even in psychology departments, they do NOT use psychological evaluation for selecting PhD candidates. They are selected and evaluated only on grades. 00:58:48 Denise T.: This monk remained silent amidst the other monks' envy. Is it ever right to speak up for yourself and explain what you are doing? Or is it always better to remain silent when confronted with the envy of others. 01:04:27 Rachel: Yep 01:10:57 Denise T.: Thank you, Father. That is very helpful. 01:15:10 Rachel: Not leaving willie nilly..going to Mas. God bless! 01:15:17 Rachel: Mass 01:16:40 Louise: Thanks, Father! 01:16:53 Patrick Nugent, ObSB: Thank you, Father! 01:17:27 David Fraley: This has been a good session and a lot to think about. Thank you, Father!
As we continue our reading of Step 15 on purity and chastity, gradually we are being shown a broader vision of what is offered to us through the ascetical life. Purity and chastity are not limited to dealing with our sexual appetites. Rather, we are striving to overcome any impediment to our seeing things and loving things in the manner in which God created us. Our vision is often distorted by our sin to the extent that we will objectify the things of this world and individuals to be used in whatever means we see fit. We lose sight of the dignity of the other as well as the beauty of creation. A heart that has been purified is capable of seeing the presence of God in every person, regardless of their deeds, and in every element of creation. A pure heart is the freest in its capacity to love.
Perhaps many of us have never tasted such a thing even in the smallest measure. It is for this reason that St. John presents us not only with aids in the battle for purity, but also with the image of the highest degree of purity we see in saintly individuals. They are often moved to tears when their capacity to see the world and others is elevated from the purely natural to the supernatural; to see the very essence and beauty of all things created by God.
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We are truly being nourished on solid food in reading the fathers. They present us not simply with a moralistic or legalistic view of sin and its impact upon our lives in the lives of others. We are to hold the peace of another’s heart as precious as we do our own. And when we are stirred to anger or hatred because we have been maligned and mistreated, we must not give way to hatred. Rather, we must suspend judgment and recognize that others are first and foremost tempted to sin as we are. We can hate the sin and the evil and in fact we should do so. But we must never lose sight of the dignity and identity of others or our own identity.
When we get angry, we can lose our stillness and peace of mind and heart. These things are often hard won and so we must be careful not to cast them off easily. Nor should we cast off brotherly love lightly. We often can treat others with harshness and lack of generosity - never realizing that we place our souls and theirs’ in jeopardy. Again, I’m not speaking simply in moralistic terms. If we goad others to anger, we can make them lose hope in the providence and love of God. If we treat their vulnerability, not with generosity and support but abuse it, then we sin against charity - we sin against Christ.
We must learn to slow things down internally; for we do not see all ends; even when we think we see things clearly. Our goal should be to live in divine love and help this divine love be maintained in our relationships with each other. In fulfilling, the commandment to love, we are offered and promised everything - to be sons and daughters of God. In light of this, whatever lengths we go to guard our minds and our hearts from anger is worth it.
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00:12:20 FrDavid Abernethy: page 348 letter G 00:22:19 Adam Paige: I just received an icon today of the Synaxis of the Bodiless Hosts 00:29:53 Rory: ?is divine providence the stillness among the passions of life? 00:37:05 Rory: ?is God revealing the truth in our silence when anger is expressed from another? 00:39:57 Louise: Father, what would you say about people who sue here and there to deal with their anger? 00:48:25 John Ingram: This reminds me of the Roman judges who flew off the handle, into a rage immediately upon hearing the testimony of the Christians they were sentencing. 01:03:55 David Fraley: I’m sorry I’m so late. I forgot today is Monday. 01:04:23 Ambrose Little, OP: Reacted to "I’m sorry I’m so lat..." with ➕ 01:07:27 Rory: when someone trespasses another, is this God's way of showing us the clarity through peace and hope. 01:09:52 Rory: ?is anger really fear? and wouldn't Divine Love quell that fear 01:17:44 Lorraine Green: Thank you 01:18:08 Louise: Thanks you, Father. 01:18:09 Helena Babington Guiles: Thank you Father David. Very helpful. 🙏🏼🤍
John continues to draw us ever deeper into the mysteries of the human mind and heart. We are in a constant state of receptivity as human beings. We are constantly engaged with the world around us through our senses. Our vigilance, therefore, must be of such a nature that we take these things into consideration. The sense of touch, the sense of hearing, etc., all can be things that give rise to the passions. In and of themselves, they may not be sinful and may not lead to sin on many occasions. However, our understanding of the power of this receptivity leads to the realization that the evil one can use them as a source of temptation. There is no room for pride in the battle that emerges from sensuality.
Even actions and behaviors from the past remain forever in the imagination and memory. They are deeply ensconced in the unconscious. No matter how long ago certain things took place, something in the present day can give rise to and trigger those memories ever so powerfully. Conceit will always be our downfall; when we think our spiritual practices or circumstances, place us outside the reach of temptation. Saint Isaac the Syrian said in the spiritual battle there is no Sabbath. In other words, there is no rest in this life when dealing with the temptations of the evil one.
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00:06:26 FrDavid Abernethy: page 147 top of the page 00:12:40 FrDavid Abernethy: page 147 top of the page 00:17:47 Anthony: Maybe the way "Theology of the Body" is approached by some teachers, the way physicality and theology are intertwined and appealed to by the imagination is a dangerous thing. 00:19:46 Rory: ?is the silent stillness our spiritual existence? 00:24:51 Louise: Could reading the Psalms written by King David stimulate the sexual appetite because he gravely fell in the sins of fornication and adultery, and also murder? 00:35:48 Cindy Moran: I don't understand this about the man & his mother... 00:37:58 Rory: ?are words a sense of touch? 00:38:15 Cindy Moran: Ok...I am getting more clarity...thank you. 00:38:50 Anthony: It's a sad reality that such a thing as incest exists. I guess the watchword is chastity or prudence, not focusing on so many permutations of evil that exist. 00:43:26 Cindy Moran: My mother told us to remember that you can't "unsee" something. 00:49:54 David Swiderski: There used to be a long tradition of contemplating the 5 wounds. I have found this extremely helpful to also sort out personal wounds. There is something strangely beautiful in overcoming suffering. 00:51:08 Rory: ?are deep wounds transcended by surrendering our weakness to God? 00:52:11 David Swiderski: The cross itself is our sign of victory 00:52:51 B.M.: Reacted to "The cross itself is ..." with ❤️ 00:53:16 David Swiderski: Water from the side of Christ, wash me. Passion of Christ, strengthen me. O good Jesus, hear me. Within your wounds conceal me. Do not permit me to be parted from you. 00:54:41 Lorraine Green: Is there a third order for laymen that is mainly Eastern? 00:54:54 Anthony: The demons see out want to follow Christ and take advantage of our weakness to crucify us by our weakness, so we then have a real solidarity with the Crucified One. 00:56:12 wayne: I belong to the eastern rite, and to my knowledge there is not third order in the east 00:57:33 Anthony: Replying to "Is there a third o..." An internet search shows there are "associates" of monastaries - Holy Resurrection Monastery, Sisters of St. Basil. These are answers at byzcath.org. 01:14:05 Cindy Moran: Replying to "Is there a third ord..." Excellent session...thank you Father! 01:14:13 Lorraine Green: Replying to "Is there a third ord..." Thank you 01:14:17 Rachel : Thank you 01:14:19 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:14:21 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you Father David. 01:14:38 Louise: Thank you! 01:14:39 Cindy Moran: Replying to "Is there a third ord..." 🙏 01:14:44 David Swiderski: Thank you father!
The subtlety of Temptations! Again, and again the fathers show us the relentless work of the evil one in drawing the mind ans the heart of individuals into sin. He can create within our hearts a kind of childishness; a veneer of sanctity or virtue. One can experience, joy or tears or consolation in their soul, but it can all be an illusion, and not truly rooted in repentance. It is for this reason that we so often backslide in the spiritual life. We do not let go of the attachments that we have to the things that lead us into sin. We may repent and go to confession, but within our hearts we still hold on to a multitude of things that give rise to temptation or that stimulate our inclination to particular sins. Fornication in particular is something that is seen as having great weight among the fathers because it is so tied to our very make up as human beings and to our bodily appetites and desires. We can fall into error in our thinking and be corrected of this error even when we cling to it with pride. But once we have acknowledged the error we are unlikely to return to it. However, when the sins of the flesh become tied up with our imagination and memory, and when we give ourselves over to the sin, the deeper the roots become. What is lodged in the imagination and memory is easily taken hold of again through fantasy, at first, and then finally an action. Therefore the sins the flesh often need the greatest commitment to ascetic disciplines in order to uproot them. We were told in the Scriptures that the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent to bear it away. Similarly, there are things that we must be willing to cut out of our life in order to keep us from falling into the same sins again. Our desire and our courage in doing so, however, is often lacking.
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00:05:54 John Ingram: Greater Cincinnati/N KY 00:08:32 FrDavid Abernethy: page 145 para 42 00:25:53 Ashley Kaschl: Is St. John saying this over sharing/emotionalism be a symptom of this sin? 00:25:53 Louise: Blind to consequences. 00:29:25 Louise: Hooking up maybe to avoid aloneness at all cost. 00:29:26 Debra: Hook Up culture isn't just on Universities 00:32:27 Rory: Being in the moment with prayer, incarnate with God, we are never alone, as a temple of the Holy Spirit 00:36:40 Rory: ?is sin a correction? 00:37:39 Anthony: When I look at the history of heresy, I see that mental and physical errors often go together. 00:39:00 Anthony: Examples that come to mind: Marcion & other Gnostics; Cathars; Lutherans; Munsterites 00:45:48 Louise: As a Catholic child, I was taught that we were forgiven if we recognize our fault, repent (suffer from having caused pain, which would reduce repetition), and to repair (in reality as much as possible). The last two requirements seem to be dismissed these days , especially the third one. 00:48:17 Ambrose Little, OP: It goes both ways. Some heretics go the way of overly puritanical approaches to the Faith. 00:54:31 Ashley Kaschl: The thought troubles me, and there’s a lot more to be said, I think, but the penance of not being permitted to receive the Holy Eucharist because of the sin of fornication makes a lot of sense. Being that we receive the whole Christ, if someone has developed a deeply rooted habit of fornication they would have a kind of morbid, contraceptive disposition of soul that says “I want the pleasure of receiving Christ in the Eucharist, but I do not want His effects.” Even if the soul is fighting against the sin, that person still needs to be freed from that disposition before seeking a union with God they have trained their body and, thus, their soul not to seek above all other things. Obviously it’s not so cut and dry but I can see what the footnote is saying 😅 00:54:38 Rory: ?are there degrees of repentence? 00:58:03 Melissa Kummerow: Reacted to "The thought troubles..." with 👍 00:59:45 sue and mark: communion is the medicine.... I think that I disagree 01:02:49 Anthony: In my opinion, that goes back to the Germanic we-gild, or man price to satisfy for offenses in place of taking a "pound of flesh" so to speak. When the Roman Catholic Church became more of a Germanic entity, we used a Germanic example (in my opinion) of penance, and of Purgatory / indulgences. 01:02:59 Anthony: "wer-gild" 01:04:00 David Swiderski: I have to admit the desert fathers helped me tremendously as they have practical things to overcome temptations, situations or vices. I wish in the confessional there was more application of those especially to younger people who give up before knowing of these weapons in the spiritual battle. 01:04:21 Jeff O.: Reacted to "I have to admit the ..." with 👍 01:04:23 Melissa Kummerow: Reacted to "I have to admit the ..." with 👍 01:04:32 Art: I recently heard about priests telling people in the confessional “Be brief, be contrite, and be gone”. 01:05:04 Eric Ewanco: Reacted to "I have to admit the ..." with 👍 01:05:05 LauraLeigh: Reacted to "I have to admit the ..." with 👍 01:05:12 John Ingram: Reacted to "I have to admit the ..." with 👍 01:05:28 Bonnie Lewis: Yes, I had a priest say, "just get to the sins!" 01:06:29 Lyle: Reacted to "I have to admit the ..." with 👍 01:07:10 David Swiderski: The church as an ER and priest or elders as spiritual doctors 01:08:45 Eric Ewanco: I hate it when I go to a scheduled confession period in an unfamiliar church and no priest is there 01:09:34 Michael: Unfortunately, I have mostly seen the opposite problem. Exponentially more people going up for communion than are going to confession. I think many people are not well-catechized and don't realize the gravity of receiving communion without ever going to confession. 01:09:59 Ambrose Little, OP: Not our job to be judging others.. 01:10:25 Michael: I don't mean to judge those people, I just think it is a big problem that so many are unaware. It isn't their fault 01:11:15 Michael: Precisely 01:13:17 Cindy Moran: Any thoughts about a book called The Philokalia and The Inner Life On Passions and Prayer written by Christopher Cook Psychiatrist 01:14:10 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:14:15 angelo: Thank you father David. 01:14:22 Michael: Thank you Father David 01:14:25 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father 01:14:32 Jacqulyn: Thank you! Quite a blessing. :-) 01:14:33 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you always Father. 01:14:37 John Ingram: Thank you, Father! 01:14:49 Louise: Thanks so much! 01:15:23 sue and mark: Good night and thank you. 01:15:27 Jeff O.: Amen, Thank you! 01:15:29 Debra: Thank you, for all you do! 01:15:29 Cindy Moran: Excellent session 01:15:31 David Swiderski: Thank you father!
Once again, we are presented with a kind of fickleness that can plague the human heart. We can be ever so changeable. This includes how we look upon even our greatest commitments. The moment something becomes a trial for us or where we are asked to endure something that is reprehensible, or that causes us some suffering, we will want to change the external circumstances of our life.
However, the fathers in their writing show us how the evil one constantly seeks to magnify such experiences to the point that they breakdown our commitment to our particular vocation or vows. The one who has lived the common life for years can have the seed implanted in his heart that he would be happier or holier as an anchorite. Or one who is old of age might be tempted into thinking that his life no longer has value, and that he can no longer fulfill the rule in the way that he did as a young man. He begins to think about retiring from the religious life all together. Such thinking is pervasive and enters into every vocation.
Having said this, however, we also have to be aware of the fact that we can face obstacles in our environment, such as the envy of others that becomes destructive or immorality. In these circumstances, it may be necessary to change one’s environment. We need to recognize that we are responsible for the spiritual well-being and fidelity of others. If we treat others without love, without respect, then we can put their vocation and their spiritual life in jeopardy. This is a sober reminder of the solidarity that exist between us. The only way that we are allowed to treat another person is to love them.
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00:03:09 FrDavid Abernethy: Hello Navy Dave!!! 00:03:26 David Fraley: I love those photos of you and your mom! Neither of you have changed! 00:03:42 FrDavid Abernethy: I look older than she does 00:04:24 David Fraley: Mrs Abernethy, you and I met at the Oratory a few years ago. 00:47:37 Ren Witter: Something about all these examples makes me really sad, and I think it has something to do with how they show that our words and actions can have such a profound on the ability of another to resist temptation. In all these examples, the temptations would have little weight if the elder in question was treated in such a way that he was assured of the affection and support of his fellow, younger monks. 00:48:08 Ren Witter: I just imagine how the way we treat others makes them more or less susceptible 00:51:00 David Fraley: Reacted to "I just imagine how t…" with 👍 00:54:46 Ren Witter: I am thinking, and I don’t think this is an overstatement, that when we treat others in a way that says “you are worthless,” “you are not worth my time,” “you don’t deserve kindness,” “you are a lost cause,” and many other such things, that we are not just making them more susceptible to the temptations of the demons, but are in fact becoming the tempting demon ourselves. We are already doing the demons’ job for them. 00:58:14 Anthony: "The Three Musketeers" has a plotline about a woman who left the convent in a bad way, and she brought ruin and misery to several men throughout her life until an avenger caught up with her. It ties together some themes discussed today. 00:59:58 Louise: Sometimes, to be ethical, we have to confront, directly or indirectly, the obvious incompetence and even maliciousness of others. Of course, their hidden demons come out then forcibly. This would not be a sin, right? 01:03:07 John Ingram: Replying to "Sometimes, to be eth..." I think St. Francis de Sales talked about how to respond to negative people (heretics, etc.): treat them with honey, not with vinegar. 01:05:48 Louise: Replying to "Sometimes, to be eth..." Good point! However, some people even envy you when you treat them with honey, because they do not have honey and they hate you for having honey.
Piercing! The vision of a Saint becomes ever so sharp. Out of their own experience of the desert, and the spiritual warfare engaged in there, comes a wisdom that strikes, hopefully, our hearts. Our hearts can become hardened by being so long immersed in sin. When the sin becomes hardened and habitual, becomes a passion, it is not easy to break free from it.
Yet words alone, even the words of the Saints, are unable to break us free. There must be within our hearts a faith and willingness to take hold of the grace of God that comes to us through Christ to enter into the fray, to fight the good fight of faith, and to engage fully in the ascetical life.
Both the habit of sin and the temptation of the Evil One often keeps us mired deeply in darkness. Yet we must strive to let the little light that is given to us draw us forward and emboldened our hearts. A different vision of reality is set before us; one that has come into being through the Incarnation and the Paschal mystery. We are called, not simply to be good people and those of high natural virtue but rather sons and daughters of God. Christ’s virtue is to become our virtue. His strength must become our strength. This is not something that we seize upon with our own hands but receive with humility and gratitude. With these two virtues may we set out on the journey with an invincible hope.
--- Text of chat during the group: 00:04:27 FrDavid Abernethy: page 144 paragraph 31 00:11:03 FrDavid Abernethy: page 144 para 31 00:23:03 Michael: Is there any truth to the idea that God is particularly merciful about "natural" sins? CS Lewis said something similar in Mere Christianity. 00:31:28 Anthony: I suggest we read the passage of the Woman caught in Adultery in the context of Susanna and the Elders. 00:53:09 Lawrence Martone: Sometimes we have to question if we are doing the right thing, but we don’t have a spiritual director. Is there an equivalent of Ignatian Discernment methods with the Desert Fathers? 00:56:54 Daniel Allen: Is that type of humility why someone such as St Philip Neri can say (paraphrasing), I have done nothing good today I will begin again… and mean it? Because to the outside observer obviously St Philip did much good. 01:05:57 Brad Smith: Is this similar to Psalm 137:9 about dashing infants against the stone…i.e. dealing with the sin early and completely? 01:06:41 LauraLeigh Monterey: My Egyptian is food. :-) So, I am to turn the power behind that appetite toward its source, which is God, yes? Can you explain a little more what that means in practical terms? That is, how exactly does one "kill the Egyptian"? Would it depend on what the Egyptian is? 01:11:18 Ashley Kaschl: This makes me think a lot about a Christmas Carol when Scrooge is first visited by Marley and how he’s fearful of this chain wrapped all around his friend more so than the fact that he’s a ghost. And Marley asks him “do you know the weight and length of the chain you bear yourself?” And I think that’s a lot like this Egyptian and how we may not know we are slaves to our sin and wrapped in chains. 01:11:23 Anthony: Replying to "Is this similar to..." That's what I was thinking. I think the monks interpret it this way. 01:12:47 Cindy Moran: What is the title of Pope Shenouda's book? 01:13:35 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:14:19 angelo: Thank you! 01:14:22 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!!! 01:14:27 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you so much Father.
We returned to hypothesis 40 and found ourselves sitting at the feet of Saint Ephrem the Syrian. We are shown with frightening clarity how the evil one works upon our minds and our hearts by making us question the value and the significance of our particular vocation. We are often tempted to change externals; thinking that when we do so we will find a place that fosters greater sanctity, peace of mind and heart, or offers a greater opportunity for prayer. The evil one constantly seeks to tempt us to this instability in order that we might never put down deep roots - and so also never bear ripe fruit, if any fruit at all.
The grass always looks greener on the other side. There are always going to be things that seem to be lacking in our life or in our relationships, whether real or perceived, that make us vulnerable to this kind of attack. Therefore, we are counseled to be equally relentless in putting things to the test. We must fast and pray and seek the counsel of others. Likewise, we must never make decisions in moments of desolation. It is not as though the fathers are saying that we can never be called to walk another path. Rather, they are telling us that all of our actions must be guided by prudence; a kind of practical wisdom that arises out of long experience within the inner desert of the heart.
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00:04:58 FrDavid Abernethy: page 342 top of the page 00:43:21 John Ingram: I'm wondering whether the extreme depravity of the modern world creates a greater temptation to retreat to a more extreme asceticism than, say, a century ago, or even during the times of the Desert Fathers. Thus we're in more danger of being thrown off balance from a balanced approach. 00:50:30 Louise: Would recommend allowing ourselves to experience the void elated to the longing to be with the Beloved, being conscious and tolerating the pain of longing while also being in this world with its joys and pleasures in a contained way. 01:07:24 Louise: I think of Job these days. He was thrown into ascetism, losses, and pain, beyond his volition. God tested him via the evil one. At times, I imagine myself in the place of Job in a near future, in the hope to remain faithful and in love with God whatever happens, even I do not understand why this is occurring. Maybe Job's trial was a demonstration for us. 01:11:02 Adam Paige: It’s the feast of Job this week actually 01:14:05 Melissa Kummerow: Wish I had been able to tune in earlier but everything that's been talked about so far has been very timely to my own life right now. Seems to be par for the course with your groups, Father David lol
How does one begin to speak about purity and chastity in an age that hyper-sensualizes the human experience? When we define ourselves so tightly and, in particular, so tightly to disordered desire, how is it that we bear witness to and embrace the call of Saint John and the other fathers to purity? Part of the answer to these questions is to immerse ourselves in the vision of the fathers; their anthropology and psychology and the spirituality that shapes these things. However, this only begins to lead us to an understanding of who and what we have become in Christ. If it remains purely notional we will inevitably be drawn back in to what the culture puts before us. What Christianity calls us to is to see ourselves only in light of Christ and to find meaning and identity in Him. Likewise, we must see the radical solidarity that exists between every one of us as human beings made in the image and likeness of God. We are called to a life of radical conversion and repentance. When we look out into the world and see great evil or sin, our response must be to turn to God with even greater zeal and desire. We must embody the love, joy, peace, and purity of the kingdom. Anything less is going to ring hollow to the world. To speak of purity or chastity in simple moralistic or legalistic terms is to fail to understand what we have become in Christ. It is the Spirit of God that dwells within us and we are not called to embody natural virtue much less what private judgment puts forward as good. It is the beauty of Divine life that must shine forth in our every thought and action.
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00:08:51 FrDavid Abernethy: page 142, para 19 00:30:23 Anthony: I kind of think I (we?) try too hard to be Christians, and that is a self-centered and very difficult focus. It's not the way of easy relief of Christ's cross. It's my cross. 00:31:39 Anthony: My pastor once mentioned how we make our own heavy, too heavy crosses. 00:33:50 Eric Ewanco: I try to project the seraph serpent mounted on a pole to the Eucharist lifted up during the liturgy, sending out healing to me from the crucifixion of Christ 00:50:56 Michael: Oh wow, I thought it was just a metaphor. I didn’t realize he was literally talking about bestiality. 00:51:29 angelo: Reacted to "Oh wow, I thought it..." with 👍 00:55:18 Ashley Kaschl: This isn’t necessarily related to chastity but there’s a book about how normal people became murderers during WWII called “Ordinary Men” and its incredibly humbling. I would definitely recommend it. There’s a quote that always sticks with me from the psychological study of genocide in that book that states “Evil that arises out of ordinary thinking and is committed by ordinary people is the norm, not the exception.” (Ervin Staub, author of “The Roots of Evil: The Origins of Genocide and other Group Violence”) 00:58:41 Anthony: I get this idea from E Michael Jones: "Sexual Liberation is a tool of Social Control." He bases this on St. Augustine and events in world history which illustrate how sexuality has been used to enslave the imagination and soul. Maybe that will help. 01:01:03 Louise: At an older age, there is an appeasement of the bodily pulsions. Therefore, there is a lot of good to say about older age. I am thankful. Maybe it is partly due to my turning to the Beloved many years ago, repeating again and again in my Heart, ''There is no god but God.'' 01:17:16 David: Isn't a lot of this the consequence of "Relativism". Feelings have replaced truth. 01:17:50 Louise: Otherwise, these people will sue you, as an honest clinician. 01:18:01 carol nypaver: True, David. 01:18:13 Ashley Kaschl: I wonder if it’s a step further than relativism. Vice has replaced virtue to the extent that it has become “virtuous” to extol it. 01:18:58 angelo: Thank you Father. 01:19:02 melissa kummerow: Thank you!!!! 01:19:05 David: Thank you father! 01:19:06 sue and mark: Good night everyone. Thank you Father.
The depth of the fathers’ understanding of the workings of the mind and the heart, the appetites and desires, is staggering. One of the great fruits of the ascetic life of the Desert fathers is what it reveals about the desert of the human heart. Jeremiah the prophet wrote: “The human heart is a treacherous thing. Who can endure it“. How true this is! St. John Climacus gradually begins us to draw us in to the subtle workings of our bodily appetites, in particular those tied to sensuality. Our vision of ourselves, and others can become so easily distorted by our sin. We become unable to see the beauty not only of the world around us, but of the human person and every aspect of their being. We all use ourselves and others and the things of this world in a desperate attempt to fill a void within our hearts. We long for the love of God. Even the atheist, one who denies God with all their heart, experiences this longing. They may be completely unaware of its source but nonetheless desperately seek something to fill it. And in those times when we are not wrapped up in the attempt or the delusion of fullness, we experience depression. There is no human being that does not experience isolation and the pain of loneliness even when surrounded by others and an abundance of worldly goods. St. John painstakingly reveals to us the nature of the struggle for purity of heart in order that we might be freed from seeking for the love and fullness anywhere else than in the bosom of God.
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00:01:25 Kevin Burke: I am just getting started on this forum and really enjoying it, I plan to catch up with the previous lessons as well. Can you tell me what version of the book that we are using in this forum? I have the Paulist version but it’s very different and I would like to get the precise same version. 00:03:14 Adam Paige: Replying to "I am just getting st..." The Holy Transfiguration Monastery version we use is a revision of this earlier 1959 translation: http://www.prudencetrue.com/images/TheLadderofDivineAscent.pdf 00:31:20 Anthony: St. Gregory of Narek on the Song of Songs does a very good job of drawing holy innocence from a love story. 00:34:04 Anthony: Replying to "St. Gregory of Nar..." "The Blessing of Blessings: Gregory of Narek on the Song of Songs" Translated from the AArmenian by Roberta Ervine, Cistercian Publications, (c) 2007 00:34:48 Louise Gaston: Would you say that purity of heart coupled with an observing ego allows for a sensitive detachment and discernment? With God's grace too? 00:34:51 angelo: Reacted to ""The Blessing of Ble..." with ❤️ 00:38:55 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: "greater still is the man unhurt by all he has looked upon." says this translation... 00:39:24 Rodrigo Castillo: The Blessing of Blessings: Grigor of Narek's Commentary on the Song of Songs (Cistercian Studies books) (Volume 215) https://a.co/d/7ZqSBAW 00:40:44 angelo: Reacted to "The Blessing of Bles..." with 👍 00:41:31 Louise Gaston: Would you say that one's engagement in pornography, gluttony, etc. is basically a defense against the pain of our longing for God's presence? 00:45:59 Adam Paige: Reacted to ""The Blessing of Ble..." with ❤️ 00:46:08 Adam Paige: Reacted to "The Blessing of Bles..." with 👍 00:50:07 Anthony: Fr. Barnabas Powell (Greek Orthodox) has a saying "You are not your thoughts." I think that has a place in psychological reflection 00:50:30 Jeff O.: Reacted to "Fr. Barnabas Powell ..." with 👍 00:52:18 Sean: In ‘Christ — Our Pascha’, the Ukrainian Catholic catechism, it says: “When a person in prayer meets God in the depths of one's heart, one already here on earth directly experiences that which the apostle Paul describes as seeing God ‘face to face’ (1 Cor 13:12). The person ‘sees’ the One in whom he or she has believed. The person abides in God's presence. The apostle Paul compares this new state of the person to a ‘seeing’ of God…it is a ‘seeing’ of the Invisible One.“ And Metropolitan Hierotheos in ‘Orthodox Psychotherapy’ writes: “The pure heart is the organ of knowledge, the organ of Orthodox epistemology.” Thank you, Father☦️ https://eeparchy.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Christ-our-Pascha-Catechism-of-the-Ukrainian-Catholic-Church-by-Comission-for-the-Catehism-z-lib.org_.pdf 00:53:42 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Fr. Barnabas Powell ..." with 👍 00:59:12 Anthony: So truth must be, as Soren Kierkegaard said, Objective-subjective. The internal assent must be actively given to the external reality. This is how the Blessed Virgin MAry lived. 00:59:46 Adam Paige: Reacted to "So truth must be, as..." with 🇩🇰 01:01:13 Louise Gaston: Difficult question - Is Christ in the Eucharist when it is consecrated by ''funny'' modernist priests? (those with an irrespectful attitude) 01:04:47 angelo: Fr. I have a question: self-flagellation as a mortification is still be helpful in this battle? I heard that it is no longer permitted by the church. 01:07:15 David: This seems different by culture. The chapel of N. Sra of Guadalupe still washes blood on the cobblestones from the knees of faithful entering the chapel 01:08:08 David: Opus Dei still uses the cilus 01:10:16 Jeff O.: Thank you! 01:10:18 Sean: Thank you, Father☦️ 01:10:19 David: Thank you father! 01:10:22 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:10:28 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!
Tonight we made the transition from St. John’s Step on Gluttony and its offspring to our discussion of Purity and Chastity in Step number 15. Again, as we read slowly through the text and begin to unpack it, we begin to see the larger picture; the image of humanity redeemed. We see what it means to be made in the image and likeness of God, and the experience of embracing our full dignity and identity.
What is held out to us is an incorruptible freedom and joy as our love becomes ordered toward God. We begin to see the true beauty of the things of the world, of others, and of God himself. As I’ve often mentioned, the desert fathers were the first depth psychologists; they present to us the path that brings healing of soul. They see the human person in his fullness and we see in their writings such our true dignity and destiny.
Our struggle often is found in the fact that we’ve never come to taste that freedom, the joy, the capacity to love unimpeded by our sin. The ascetic life is not about endurance, or personal health or the ordering of our life so much as it is about the desire for God, his love, and to share in the life that he makes possible for us. It has been said that “Beauty will save the world”. In the writings of the fathers, we are called to see this beauty first in the person of Christ; and in and through him the beauty of the life that is held out to us. May we desire it with all of our hearts.
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00:12:16 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Who? Author? 00:12:44 Anthony: Pope Shenouda 00:13:09 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: THanks 00:13:35 FrDavid Abernethy: page 138 00:13:38 FrDavid Abernethy: no 32 00:14:03 Anthony: If y'all have Coptic Orthodox parishes nearby with food festivals .... GO! 00:23:15 Cindy Moran: This reminds me of: the kingdom suffers violence and the violent seize it by force--Mt 11:12 00:25:17 Debra: What Step and paragraph 00:26:44 Lori Hatala: step 14 para 36 00:26:55 Debra: Replying to "step 14 para 36" Thank you! 00:32:35 Anthony: I get it, but cooking is an art. Food is beautiful. Nothing God made - matter or form - is evil. What we consider to be food needs reform. Our habits need reform to appreciate the art. But I'm a bit concerned that some of these fathers are a presenting the stick too much and the carrot to little. 00:39:23 Ambrose Little, OP: Replying to "I get it, but cookin..." The carrot is food, which is bad. ;) 00:39:39 angelo: Reacted to "The carrot is food, ..." with 😂 00:40:08 Anonymous Sinner: The movie Babette’s Feast comes to mind 00:42:27 Anthony: In Sicilian, the word for this kind of boorish glutton is gavonne (cafone). 00:43:47 Bonnie Lewis: I love that movie. It's beautiful. 00:47:27 Anthony: I don't suppose I pray as much as I "should," but I have a wondrous happiness when creating like cooking 00:48:58 Bridget McGinley: Father this is a little off topic… was St John Cassian a priest? Also, Do you know of any books which talk about his devotion to St Mary Magdalene? I recently returned from France/Spain where I learned St John founded a monastery adjacent to her cave in 415. The Cassians protected her cave for hundreds of years. The Dominicans have had it since about the 1200’S. It just seems like he understood penance on the same level as she did. 00:49:54 wayne: Well we now have foods that create little preparation and in turn we have lost the art form of preparation and also we don't have the sense of where our food comes from. 00:50:57 Bridget McGinley: Sorry I know it was a little off topic. 00:51:39 angelo: That is true Father that the meal table is no longer table of sharing, I live and I am from a family first immigrant of this country and we all have jobs in different shifts and we don't see each other, eating alone is so sad that leads to eat more and more and watch tv until we doze off. 00:52:02 Anthony: Replying to "I get it, but cook..." Carrot slaw, carrot cake.... 00:52:10 Anthony: Reacted to "The carrot is food..." with 😂 00:52:21 Anthony: Reacted to "Well we now have f..." with 👍 00:52:39 Anthony: Reacted to "That is true Fathe..." with ❤️ 00:54:34 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: In Eastern monasteries, the refectory walls are covered with iconography. 00:54:44 Anthony: Reacted to "In Eastern monaste..." with ❤️ 00:54:49 Vicki Nichols: Replying to "Father this is a lit..." Saint Mary Magdalene by Fr. Davidson is a good book 00:55:17 angelo: Reacted to "In Eastern monasteri..." with ❤️ 00:55:33 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "Saint Mary Magdalene…" with ❤️ 01:18:43 Ashley Kaschl: It’s probably obvious, but this section makes me think of the Beatitudes. Aristotle had a maxim that said, “As a person is, so does he see.” And I think that once we are granted the grace necessary to slowly make our hearts undivided in love, then too, do we become pure of heart, and our vices are chipped away to make room for virtue so that we might, at the end of our lives, see God face to face. “Blessed are the pure of heart, for they shall see God.” 01:19:37 Anthony: Reacted to "It’s probably obv..." with ❤️ 01:19:48 Ashley Kaschl: 😂😂😂 01:20:09 angelo: Reacted to "It’s probably obviou..." with ❤️ 01:20:10 Ambrose Little, OP: Reacted to "It’s probably obviou..." with ❤️ 01:20:18 Debra: Reacted to "It’s probably obviou..." with ❤️ 01:21:38 angelo: thank you 01:21:48 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:21:51 David: Thank you father! 01:21:52 Bonnie Lewis: good night Father. 01:21:56 Jeff O.: Thank you! God bless your pilgrimage Angela! 01:21:58 Rachel : Thank
We rarely think of the importance of stability; not only in our external environment, but the stability of thought and emotion. It is precisely this that is addressed in Hypothesis 40. One can easily be tempted, with good reason, for a multitude of reasons, to move to another place, where one can find greater tranquility and peace in the spiritual life. Yet, such thoughts are often the work of the evil one. Wherever we go, we take our selves with us, including our passions.
And so, we receive multiple stories and examples of monks and saints who were put to the test in this regard. We can allow ourselves with great ease to begin to daydream; to imagine a kind of life that will bring peace and happiness to us or that would be pleasing to God. The danger is that we often are motivated by our personal judgment and sensibilities or by the actions of the evil one.
We must understand that in this world we know no peace, except for that which is found in Christ. While we are in this world, we are engaged in constant spiritual warfare and should expect nothing less. In fact, we were told that we must become like the cherubim - “all eyes.” We must constantly watch for the subtle ways that the evil one seeks to draw us away from the path of obedience and humility.
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Text of chat during the group: 00:11:33 FrDavid Abernethy: page 330 Letter E 00:54:48 Erick chastain: What hypothesis/ book are we on? 00:55:21 carol nypaver: P.334 00:55:26 Eric Ewanco: XL.A.2 00:55:59 Erick chastain: Reacted to "P.334" with 👍 00:56:28 carol nypaver: Please say book name again? 00:56:52 John Ingram: https://www.amazon.com/Life-Repentance-Purity-Pope-Shenouda/dp/0881415324?ref_=nav_ya_signin 00:56:59 Cindy Moran: Great idea. 00:57:55 Sean: Reacted to "Great idea. " with 👍 01:03:37 Sean: Along this line, I have friends who have considered converting to Orthodoxy. Can you speak to pursuing holiness in our Church and not leaving in this context? Thank you, Father☦️ 01:06:26 Erick chastain: Pope Francis said Sunday that evangelization doesn't get done by keyboard warriors 01:08:17 John Ingram: I think Our Lord told us that in these times, charity would grow cold - which is exactly what is happening with all these internal disputes in the Church. 01:17:31 Eric Ewanco: “One does not proclaim the Gospel standing still, locked in an office, at one’s desk or at one’s computer, arguing like ‘keyboard warriors’ and replacing the creativity of proclamation with copy-and-paste ideas taken from here and there. The Gospel is proclaimed by moving, by walking, by going.” — Pope Francis, General Audience, Wednesday, 12 April 2023 01:27:27 Cindy Moran: 🙏 01:27:58 sue and mark: God Bless everyone.
How striking it is to hear the nature of the struggle with gluttony and the need for fasting spoken of with such zeal and clarity! Such practices have for the most part fallen by the wayside or have been minimized to such an extent as to be equally nonexistent. The unfortunate fruit of this is that we often have never tasted the freedom and the strength comes through ordering our appetite for food. Thus, the humbling of the mind and the body and the deepening of the experience of prayer through the stilling of the thoughts is also rarely experienced.
We need to take hold of the wisdom of the fathers and their zeal that will allow us to put it into practice. St. John tells us that when God sees the movement of the mind abs the heart towards Him through these practices that He will aid us with His grace.
We also see that the fathers have a very clear sense of the workings of the human mind and how we experience our bodily appetites. Their observations of what takes place on a physiological level are astute and reveal the depth of their experience. All of it is meant to fashion within our hearts a renewed desire for the ascetic life.
We must see that which is uniquely an distinctively Christian about these practices. For while St. John and the other fathers speak of them so frequently, they also understand that their beginning and end is found in one’s relationship with God. The desire for God’s love must compel us.
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As a special reflection for this Holy Week, we chose a reading from Fr., Thomas Acklin‘s book “The Passion of the Lamb.” In particular we reflected on the chapter entitled “Behold His Face.” As one participant in tonight‘s group stated: “This reflection is a gem!” I agree. It is a rarest of gems and I’m grateful to Fr. Tom for writing it and the entire book. While small, it has had an incalculable effect upon me and I hope for all who listen to this podcast.
What Fr. Tom seeks to do is to open our minds and our hearts to the truth revealed in the Passion of Christ. So often we approach this mystery bound by the limits of our reason and our sin. Fr. Tom challenges us to allow ourselves to be guided and drawn into the mystery by faith; to comprehend what God has revealed to us and what is beyond the measure of man’s mind.
Many Christians throughout the centuries have struggled with the mystery of the Cross and the reality of our Lord’s suffering. Theologically, the human mind, almost in a form of resistance, intellectually and spiritually, tries to hold on to the notion of God being impassible. We are comfortable with notions of God being all powerful and all knowing. What we have trouble understanding and what we are often unwilling to embrace is the reality of a God who is Omni-kenotic and Omni-vulnerable. What Fr. Tom wants us to reflect upon is a God in whom we see and attribute not human deficiencies and sinfulness, hatred, ignorance, or illness. Rather, he wants us to contemplate and attribute to God in an infinite and perfect way the good qualities that we have in a finite and even deficient way. Thus, Fr. Tom says, rather than being impassible, incapable of feeling or having passion as we do as human beings, it would be more accurate to say that not only Christ but all three persons of the Trinity are infinitely caring, infinitely affected by us; Omni-passible. To believe such a thing is to understand that “at the height of his agony, he could see, not only the people who stood before him, jeering or weeping, but all the people of all time. He saw us in our loving and in our refusing to love, our sinning and our repenting. At the same eternal moment, he took on all the moments of every life and death. He could be the infinite love of God in person to each human being who ever lived, and who will ever live.”
May God bless us this Holy Week with the gift of faith to see this love, this perfect vulnerability, even in the smallest measure.
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00:05:42 FrDavid Abernethy: https://mcusercontent.com/c38acab568d650f7ef65f39df/files/679d1720-7a17-e9b4-7355-2bd4ae5431fd/Behold_His_Face_Booklet.pdf 00:14:52 Cath Lamb: I don't have microphone or camera 😊 00:18:31 Rebecca Thérèse: England 00:18:36 CathyQ: Canadian too! 00:18:41 Kristen's I Phone: Alberta Canada! 00:18:59 Michael: Pittsburgh! 00:19:07 michele: Buffalo ny 00:19:09 Cath Lamb: Colorado USA 00:19:10 kevin: BOSTON 00:19:16 James Moran: Appleton WI 00:39:47 Michael: Shroud of Turin video https://www.youtube.com/live/HAbuG-oVq1Q?feature=share 00:43:25 CathyQ: Reacted to "Shroud of Turin vide..." with ❤️ 01:44:49 Sean: Hi Father, I think (from what I have seen) that a problem might be people seeing heaven in the future rather than deification as a reality we can begin to participate in here and now. ☦️ 01:44:49 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:45:53 Kristen's I Phone: Reacted to "Shroud of Turin vide…" with ❤️ 01:47:30 sheri: Thank you. Good night. 01:47:40 Patricia: Thank You! 01:47:46 Michael: Thank you Fr 01:48:04 Kristen's I Phone: Thank you! 01:48:12 michele: Thank you 01:48:53 kevin: beautiful talk excellent , thank you for sharing Father 01:49:08 David Fraley: Thank you, Father David. 01:49:09 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Fr. Tom needs our +prayers.. He's sick. 01:49:28 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Long term problem 01:49:34 Patricia: Do you know Fr. Justin?
We continued to our reflection on step number 14 - gluttony, or that “clamorous mistress, the stomach.” We are being exposed to the wisdom of the fathers, so deeply rooted in their experience of human nature and how it has been effected by sin. St. John, in his typical fashion, reveals to us the subtleties (psychological, emotional and spiritual) of how we are deceived by the evil one and how our bodily appetites can be used against us. It is precisely because our appetite for food is natural and needed for sustenance that it is something that can be used against us and so powerfully.
This step shows how St. John and the other fathers were not only spiritual warriors, but the first depth psychologists. They knew how the mind and the heart work. We are easily deceived and easily moved to rationalize our use of food. Perhaps what is most significant is that St. John shows us how essential this practice of fasting and abstinence is in our spiritual life. We can’t be dabblers or minimalists. Because it is such a part of who we are, our appetite for food must be formed and shaped both by discipline and by the grace of God. What and how we eat is often a reflection of our emotional state a response to a need and desire for consolation. Rather than nourishing ourselves upon the love of God, we will choose some thing that offers immediate satisfaction - even though we know it is ever so temporary.
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00:22:56 Anthony: Months ago we talked about the monk who cut off his genitals, to great spiritual and physical harm. Fasting is a healthy way of cutting off an appetite; it cannot be complete, since that is absolutely repulsive to natural law. It encourages both cutting something off and moderation in approach. Maybe that is a reason why fasting is a help for both gluttony and lust. 00:24:00 Anthony: In addition, fasting is accessible to both men and women - a remedy for all. 00:25:03 angelo: Reacted to "Months ago we talked..." with 👍 00:28:20 sue and mark: am I correct in thinking that this can be modified for special health needs effected by diet. 00:28:40 Sean: I recently watched a good lecture on Evagrius, “Evagrius the Monk and the Care of Souls” by Dr. Robin Darling Young at the Byzantine Catholic Seminary: https://youtu.be/Lp-EpQB_A6U I didn’t know that he was condemned along with Origen. I have only heard good things. Thank you, Father. 00:38:41 David: Aren't a lot of perceived contradictions looking at absolutes rather than stages and a process. As a child uses training wheels, then has someone behind him, then only a flat road. Over the period of time and conquering basic steps bigger challenges can be adopted. 00:41:00 sue and mark: Reacted to "Aren't a lot of perc..." with 👍 00:46:47 Anthony: So, Mardi Gras can actully harm the spiritual goal of Lent, but Meatfare then cheesefare is to enhance the Lent 00:47:52 Jean-Baptiste Giroux: There are many people these days practicing prolong fasting up to 72 hrs. Should that be encouraged? 00:48:11 Patrick Caruso: Fr. David, could you please speak to how one should incorporate fasting and/or restraint on Sundays, solemnities, etc? With the approaching Easter season, how is one to best continue forward with some of the fasting they may have been practicing during Lent in the Easter season? 00:49:31 Adam Paige: Reacted to "There are many peopl…" with 👍 00:49:34 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Fr. David, could you…" with 👍 00:53:48 David: In the early church wasn't Wed and Friday all year what Christians were know for in fasting? 01:05:11 Jeff O.: Reacted to "In the early church ..." with 👍 01:05:35 Brad Smith: If the “warrior-ascetic” is distinct from the “perfect ascetic,” is Climacus implicitly warning the warrior to be careful not to delight to the point of succumbing to pride in there heat of battle when successful? 01:14:54 carol: “You are she who is not, I AM He Who Is.” to St.Catherine of Siena 01:18:16 David: Fear of the consequences of our sins? And acknowledging he is also All Just, a Judge? Ideally fear of disappointing God through love is best but sometimes fear of consequence can be good at times. 01:21:22 Anthony: Wisdom Chapter 12 - God tries to correct people by degrees. 01:23:22 carol nypaver: Well said, Father! 01:23:57 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂 01:24:10 Krissy: Thanks! 01:24:49 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father! 01:24:53 David: Thanks you and bless you Father! 01:24:55 angelo: thank you 01:24:55 sue and mark: good night an dGod bless you father. 01:24:58 Brad Smith: Thank you 01:24:59 Jeff O.: Amen, thank you!
Tonight, our 100th Episode of the study of the The Evergetinos, we began reading Hypothesis 39. The subject matter is manifold. We are not to trust or be overly confident in ourselves, our own judgment or our spiritual strength. Rather, we are to trust first and foremost in the grace of God and also the intercession of our spiritual father. Every good that we accomplish takes place because of God’s mercy; this includes the prayers, and the intercession of one’s elder.
We are presented with a multitude of stories of individuals who were protected, strengthened, or guided by the prayers of their spiritual fathers. However, we are not to see this as magic; nor are we to see it as something that would protect us from hardship, or the crosses we may be called to carry. Rather what is emphasized for us is the radical solidarity that exists among us as men and women of faith. We do not travel the road through this world in isolation. Rather, we are under the care of others or we are responsible for on another’s well-being.
As so many times before, such stories emphasize for us the need for humility. We have to let go of the illusion of power. In fact, we cannot present the gospel from a standpoint of power, at least not as it is seen and understood in the world. The love that we bear witness to is obedient and self-emptying. The truth and the wisdom that we speak is that of the kingdom. Are these the realities the guide us in our life? Are our sensibilities any different from those who do not have faith?
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Text of chat during the group: 00:10:14 FrDavid Abernethy: page 322 00:10:23 FrDavid Abernethy: New Hypothesis XXXIX 00:29:03 Rachel : This happens when we in our ascetic efforts in union with Christ, try to divest ourselves of self and the world. 00:31:11 Anthony: I just finished reading St. Bonaventure's life of St. Francis. It made the real power of intercession more real to me. St. Francis and his friars are very much in the mold of these older Fathers. It shows me the real catholicity of the Faith. 00:40:16 carol nypaver: What would you recommend for a young man who feels drawn to the priesthood in this day/age? 00:48:57 David Fraley: Reacted to "What would you recom…" with 👍 01:09:04 Anthony: Modern practical question: Does this speak to Concealed Carry of Firearms, especially now when brigandage is more common than in past decades? 01:14:58 Ambrose Little, OP: Be inspired by the circumcellions! ;) 01:15:55 Paul Fifer: “He said to them, “But now one who has a money bag should take it, and likewise a sack, and one who does not have a sword should sell his cloak and buy one.” Luke 22:27 01:17:07 Rodrigo Castillo: Ambrose: Donatists in North Africa in St. Augustine’s time. 01:20:52 Paul Fifer: The verse before that… “He said to them, “When I sent you forth without a money bag or a sack or sandals, were you in need of anything?” “No, nothing,” they replied.” 01:22:13 Ambrose Little, OP: NAB commentary at end of that passage: “It is enough!: the farewell discourse ends abruptly with these words of Jesus spoken to the disciples when they take literally what was intended as figurative language about being prepared to face the world’s hostility.” 01:26:07 David Fraley: Thank you, Father!
Tonight we picked up with Step, 14 on “that clamorous mistress, the stomach“. Climacus begins to draw us into a discussion of one of the most important and neglected spiritual practices - fasting and the struggle with gluttony.
This is a struggle, Saint John tells us, that remains with us through our entire life. Our desire for food or our misuse of food is something that is part of the very fabric of our life. It is a bodily appetite. Not unlike other appetites, it must be ordered toward the good or in the way that is in accord with the wisdom of God.
Yet, John tells us, gluttony is hypocrisy of the stomach. In a sense it deceives us. Even when we are filled, it tells us that we are empty, and even when we are bursting, it “cries out that it is hungry.“. It also leads us to devise seasonings, and sweet and rich dishes. The moment that we think that we have control of it, it shows itself in another area of our life. Unchecked, it leads to something even more serious - fornication. If we do not order this basic appetite for food, then we are going to be disordered and the use of our other bodily appetites, including our sexual appetite. And so, St. John tells us that he who coddles the body makes it wilder. If we do not control it, then it will overcome us.
If we are self-aware, we know we eat for many different reasons. On an emotional level, we often eat to console ourselves or because we are feeling aggressive or anxiety. We distract ourselves and deal with feelings of emptiness by filling our bodies with food. There are many ways that we convince ourselves that restraining ourselves is inappropriate. For example, we tell ourselves that hospitality demands that we break our fasting practices. Rather than being honest with ourselves and others, we freely let go of these disciplines, not out of love for others but to satisfy our baser needs.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:14:38 Bonnie Lewis: I agree wholeheartedly! 00:15:46 Bonnie Lewis: Let's do it. 00:16:35 CMoran: Was it Rod Dreher? 00:36:57 Anthony: On Fasting, I recall sayings from people like St. Paisios to the effect that we live like pagans since we neglect prayer and fasting. I wonder if there is an inverse correlation between a failure to fast and pray and the increased use of unwholesome images. 00:38:05 Jeff O.: Is there a reason or importance in the way Climacus orders anger and acedia before gluttony/fornication/greed etc on the ladder? I just find it interesting the order of things and the way he presents the vices 00:42:30 David Swiderski: What is the best practice in fasting. I fasted with a Syrian roommate a couple years he for Ramadan me for Lent. The hardest was no water all day which could be dangerous. What was strange most Muslims gain weight and have huge feasts every night and before the sunrose would drink juices to excess. 00:53:24 Anthony: I was talking about Easter Grain pie within the last 90 minutes.... 00:56:49 Eric Ewanco: If we go over to someone's house during a fasting/abstinence period, how should we handle this if they plan food that breaks the discipline? 00:57:07 angelo: Reacted to "If we go over to som..." with 👍 00:58:24 Ambrose Little, OP: Well, our Lord did tell us to not appear to be fasting. 🙂 00:58:37 Eric Ewanco: Reacted to "Well, our Lord did t..." with 👏🏻 01:01:08 Ambrose Little, OP: “When you give, do not let your right hand know what your left hand is doing.” There does seem to be an impetus to “hide” our discipline and good works, to avoid pride. 01:01:14 Bonnie Lewis: excellent Father 01:01:17 Brad Smith: Your reference to hospitality as an excuse for gluttony seems the height of fornication (paragraph 1) as it is essentially to use the other person as a means to our own ends; gluttony is to misuse God’s good creation for our self-centered ends. Yes? 01:02:07 Brad Smith: I meant paragraph 5…Brad 01:02:07 Ambrose Little, OP: So we can’t win. LOL 01:04:37 CMoran: A few of my casual Catholic friends think that no meat on Friday has been done away with after the reforms. 01:05:43 CMoran: Not even knowing that some other penance is required. 01:08:28 Helena Babington Guiles: He who is in us is greater than he who is in the world…and when we commune with Him within, His nourishment exceeds any other. 01:10:49 Ren Witter: I am going to someone’s house for dinner tomorrow, and they already know I am vegetarian so I was going to just go and eat what was there, but I literally just texted them to say I can’t have eggs or cheese 😄. It makes me feel strangely anxious 🤣 I also told them to blame Father David 😄 01:11:09 Bonnie Lewis: Reacted to "I am going to someon..." with 😂 01:11:20 angelo: can we replace fasting with good works? This was my experience years ago when I was aspirant in a religious community. 01:14:07 Eric Ewanco: You can't "beat your body and make it your slave" (St. Paul) by doing good works 01:14:13 carol nypaver: We should not make others “suffer” because of our sacrifices. Right? 01:15:35 Rebecca Thérèse: I thought that the recommendation for a fast day was two small meals OR one large one, is that what you meant? 01:16:18 Debra: I gave up coffee on Lent...and my family suffered lol 01:17:16 Eric Ewanco: @rebecca the requirement is one meal, and up to two smaller meals not adding up to another meal as needed to maintain your strength 01:17:18 Ren Witter: Replying to "I thought that the r..." In the Latin Rite the official rule is “one large meal, and two small meals that do not together equal one large meal” and yes, its pretty lame :-D 01:17:25 Ren Witter: Reacted to "@rebecca the require..." with 👍 01:17:49 carol nypaver: When I have to prepare a meal for someone who is “wheat-free,” meat-free, dairy-free makes me not want to host them. They don’t have allergies, just sacrificing these things. That makes me “suffer." 01:17:58 Bonnie Lewis: No, don't Father. Amen 01:18:25 Rebecca Thérèse: @Ren thanks 01:20:05 Ambrose Little, OP: Here’s the USCCB on the topic: https://www.usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/liturgical-year-and-calendar/lent/us-bishops-pastoral-statement-on-penance-and-abstinence The focus seems to be about internalizing and owning our asceticism (as Christian adults) rather than having it spoon fed to us in a one-size-fits-all approach. But the important part of the message seems to have been lost on many. 01:21:05 Eric Ewanco: "many" is an understatement 01:21:30 Bonnie Lewis: I never hear this spoken on from the pulpit. 01:22:17 Ren Witter: Replying to "When I have to prepa..." Its actually a pretty reasonable thought - “don’t host them” when I think about it. If I had friends, and they were strictly kosher for instance, it would be basically impossible for me to host them because I don’t know how to cook that way. At that point, its better if we go to a kosher restaurant, or if I simply go to their home and play with the kids while they cook. 01:22:48 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂 01:23:26 CMoran: Thank you Father...excellent session...most necessary for me! 01:23:35 angelo: Thank you 01:23:37 Jeff O.: Thank you! 01:23:44 Cath Lamb: Thank you! 01:23:44 Debra: Thank you Father! This was really good! 01:23:47 iPhone (2): Thank you! 01:25:02 David Swiderski: Thank you father!
As we move more deeply into the first volume of the Evergetinos - reading hypothesis 38 - we find ourselves also being drawn more deeply into the mystery of humility and obedience. The wisdom of God, revealed in our Lord through his incarnation and through the Paschal mystery, shows us the vulnerability of divine love and humility. For the love of us Christ empties himself, becomes a slave and obedient unto death on the cross. It is upon him that we must fix our gaze if we are not to be drawn into the illusions of pride.
Religious people are not above having their own delusions; including and especially the delusion of holiness. We hold on to the demands of our ego. Pride rules our will. Thus, we were given multiple stories this evening of God in his providence guiding souls along a path He desires and presenting them with circumstances that unexpectedly revealed to them these greater truths. There is so much of us that is prideful that we are often blind to the humble ways that God comes to us and reject those through whom He speaks to us.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:14:43 FrDavid Abernethy: page 314 letter C 00:23:57 Anthony: Is this the concept of "doing Purgatory" now so you don't have to go to Purgatory later? 00:39:57 Anthony: On preaching the gospel, among "Evangelicals," there is an emphasis of calling someone to recognize their sin and "accept Christ." That doesn't seem to be the Catholic tradition, is it? In the Bible it seems only prophets did that and we are not prophets. 00:47:24 Eric Ewanco: think you missed a paragraph? 01:13:16 Anthony: This so goes against modern education. The intellect is separated from morals and we are taught to set ourselves up as judges 01:17:04 Anthony: "you have many teachers but not many fathers"
INTERIORIZED MONASTICISM PART II FUNDAMENTAL ELEMENTS
• Prayer
• Eschatological Maximalism
• Evangelical Counsels as Seen through Three Temptations of Christ in the Desert:
1. Poverty
Next Week:
Chastity: the Sacredness of Creation and the Virginity of Heart that Should Belong to All
Obedience to God: Receptivity to the Spirit of Truth and the Creative Freedom of the Life of Grace.
How do we talk about and understand despondency? I never heard about the word or the nature of the vice until I was in my 20s and after having read the fathers. And yet we hear from the fathers that it is the greatest and gravest of the eight capital vices. It afflicts the soul in such a way that it draws it into darkness. The soul loses its capacity to see the presence of God or to love the things of God. It becomes most dangerous when we are engaged in the spiritual life in isolation; either as those who live the life of a hermit, or as those who see the spiritual life as a private affair. We live in a radical solidarity with each other, and with God. Our understanding of this, and our embrace of that reality may be the one thing that keeps us from falling into a general death.
This demon uses the most subtle forms of temptation to make us lax in our spiritual practice or come to despise it all together. There are very few remedies for it for this reason. One must remember death and the brevity of our life. We must understand that we are in the end times and see the urgency of the moment. We must also cling to obedience; placing our thoughts before another and allow them to guide us when we cannot see the path before us.
Prayer filled with hope, St. John tells us, is the only thing that brings this vice to utter death. Only when we cling to He who is life and love and hope and let go of the illusion that we can simply endure the spiritual trials of this world on our own will this vice be conquered. But once it is conquered, a person has come to experience all that is good; they are prepared for every spiritual battle that lies ahead.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:19:17 David: Question on translation: Acedia wouldn't this be closer to insouciant or melancholy rather than despondency? 00:35:37 Daniel Allen: Despondency is a child of talkativeness but community life is opposed to it? That seems sort of contradictory. 00:37:21 Anthony: The spirit of despondency also perverts a concept of what it means to be "elect": I am the only true one, everyone is against me." That's not a good place to be. 00:37:51 Daniel Allen: As a follow up it seems that despondency is always a lurking threat. 00:38:32 Daniel Allen: Ok that clears it up thank you 00:41:21 Cindy Moran: Noonday Devil from Ps 90:6 [DRV] 00:43:22 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Also, many monks would not eat before 3 pm so beginning around midday hunger and hungers may start. 00:46:55 Anthony: The dinner bell represents hope that suffering will end. 00:59:02 Kathy: What do you mean by deification? 01:00:26 Eric Ewanco: Deification is become by grace what Christ was by nature -- becoming God-like, sharing in the divinity of Christ as he shared in our humanity, being partakers of the divine nature (2 Peter 1:3-4) 01:01:26 Anthony: A great Roman Catholic imagery / interpretation of deification is in Dante's "Paradiso," especially the later cantos. 01:02:14 Kathy: Thanks 01:06:45 Daniel Allen: St Therese - “May you trust God that you are exactly where you are meant to be.” 01:06:59 Kristen Brotemarkle: beautiful quote, thanks for sharing that. ^ 01:09:55 Liz: Sorry, what´s the name of the author Father is talking about? 01:10:26 Anthony: Paul Evdekimov 01:10:32 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Paul Evdokimov 01:10:35 Liz: Thank you!!! 01:18:25 Ambrose Little, OP: Gender equality. Very modern. 01:20:56 Jeff O.: It seems like despondency (and gluttony as well) have a tendency or propensity to draw us towards numbing…which, paired with the nature of our culture which attempts to provide numbing or comforting in all things seems like an almost double whammy of sorts… 01:21:34 Anthony: Reacted to "It seems like desp..." with 👍 01:24:21 Kristen Brotemarkle: Reacted to "It seems like despon..." with 👍 01:37:38 Art: Got me too! 01:38:30 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:38:53 Rodrigo Castillo: That is a great idea! The forum! 01:39:53 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father...rich teaching tonight. 01:39:57 Jeff O.: This was great! Thank you. 01:40:07 David: Thank you father!
How does one approach something such as grumbling and murmuring against others, or complaining about what our judgment and sensibilities react to negatively in our lives? How is it that we suspend that judgment? Beyond this, how is it that we let it go all together and allow ourselves to be drawn along in the darkness of faith; where God alone illuminates the path before us to draw us into the truth and the love of the kingdom?
The short answer to all of these questions is: through experience. Only God can reveal to the human heart that has the faith, perhaps only the size of a mustard seed, the depths of His mind and His truth. The greatest miracle, if you will, is to move the mountain of our ego and self-esteem. Our passions make it so difficult to keep our focus solely upon God, upon his love, and upon the truth that is being revealed to us.
These stories are not about disciples being slavishly obedient to their masters no matter what the circumstances. In fact, the stories given to us tonight were how novices and disciples, who were pure of heart, were able to see the truth with clarity and bring about the conversion of their Elders who had lost their way. The stories are presented to us in order that we would not be tempted into condescension. We must understand that God can reprove us and correct us in the most unexpected of ways. What these hypotheses (36 & 37) reveal to us is the preeminence of humility and love. Age, experience or depth of discipline are no guarantee that we will see the truth or embrace it. May God have mercy and illuminate our hearts.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:12:16 FrDavid Abernethy: page 309 00:12:34 FrDavid Abernethy: On Grumbling :-) 00:33:19 Eric Ewanco: In terms of grumbling, I was listening today to a podcast on joy and the speaker pointed out that the early Christians did not even complain about Nero (who took Christians, covered them with tar, and lit them to shed light on his parties), but kept their focus on God and their own faith, and cultivating joy in the midst of persecution. A good lesson for us today in the hostile environment we live in where Christians tend to get distracted by their grumbling over the circumstances. 00:48:21 Eric Ewanco: Doesn't this just contradict everything we've heard previously about the value and importance of unalloyed obedience? 01:16:26 Anthony: "Father David, Build My Church, which you can see is in ruins"? 01:19:56 Ambrose Little, OP: It seems like the habit of humility teaches us to see more clearly. Humility as “true self knowledge,” but with that practice of patience with yourself and with others, not jumping to conclusions and avoiding rashly adopting opinions of others. You give yourself time and suppress the passions that can interfere with being open to seeing things as they really are. So that practice of humble obedience is at least in part what helps us to see more clearly when it might be right to not obey—or at least not obey in particulars in order to be obedient in a a deeper way, as with that disciple tonight.
I have one word for tonight‘s group: Beautiful! Repentance “brings to us the power of the living God, revealing once again, the true Christ Jesus who dwells in us.” As with so many aspects of the faith, we have a tendency to compartmentalize not only the practice of virtue or of prayer but of our relationship with God as a whole. Yet our faith and our relationship with God should touch the very fabric of our beings and shape the essence of every relationship and every work that we engage in throughout the course of our lives. It should shape also our experience of death and our realization of our own mortality. Repentance is not an episodic reality but a continual effort, the continual straining of the heart - reaching out to God to experience his love and mercy. In this sense it is the most important of things.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:06:18 sue and mark: microphone is not working 00:08:33 Ren Witter: PDF Handout: https://mcusercontent.com/c38acab568d650f7ef65f39df/files/34558acb-864f-f9f8-1546-e7decdc9605b/Repentance.pdf 00:34:44 charlesevers: What gets us (causes) trapped into thinking of past sins? 00:34:55 Irene Bridget Hutchinson: Fr, how would a scrupulous person go about being constantly repentant with peace of soul? 00:44:00 David: The past few years I have also focused on taking time in prayer and adoration to express gratitude and thanksgiving. Isn't it equality important to give thanks as to deepen repentance. No amount of regret changes the past, no amount of worry will change the future but any gratitude will change the present. 00:50:52 charlesevers: Very good. Thank you Father. Excellent explanation. 00:55:37 charlesevers: St. Bonaventure wrote a colloquay 01:12:54 Rachel : Yes. Only true Beauty. Most,. I include myself, can tend to misuse t| 01:21:53 Missi White: That's a tough pill to swallow, especially in what has become such a narcissistic culture. How I needed this conference, thank you! 01:24:26 Art: Helpful reminder for me at times: But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God; who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. (Jn 1:12-13) 01:25:21 Bonnie Lewis: I have found that when I pray for someone who is causing me to harbor a resentment toward them, I am the one who changes internally. The other person may remain exactly how they were, yet I have received a peace of mind and thought toward them. This doesn't happen overnight. sometimes it takes some time. 01:36:29 Rachel : Who wrote the book? A continual effort. With no temptation or battle a soldier is not made stronger through resisting. St. Faustina, and St Therese had clear experiences of people who tried their patience. They felt the irritation. Its not like the new lens that Father is speaking of will mean that somone will not need to actively practice patience but that the life of repentence, living constantly in the presence of God, in Truth, the person "drunk with compunction" just simply cannot not forgive when they see who they really are in Christ and the dignity of others as well. All mankind seen through the lens of love 01:37:12 Rachel : This book should be gone through very slowly. 01:41:33 Rachel : I think Ren mentioned that this past year in a group! I need to get that book. 01:44:13 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you Father David. This was beautiful. 01:44:15 David: Thank you Father! 01:44:27 charlesevers: Thank you Father. This was wonderful 01:44:30 Lori Hatala: so very helpful. 01:44:31 Rachel : lol 01:44:31 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂 01:44:32 Melissa Kummerow: Yes thank you! I like the occasional "bonus" groups :) 01:44:34 Rachel : Thank you 01:45:17 Rachel : Thank you 01:45:18 Lorraine Green: Thank you 01:45:26 Cindy Moran: I hope Father's talj will be available for what I missed. 01:45:27 Rachel : Praying for you 01:45:31 Mary Jo: Thank you !! 01:45:31 Mitch: Very profound. Thankyou Father take care
INTRODUCTION TO INTERIORIZED MONASTICISM
Interiorized Monasticism and Ascetic Ideal:
• Obscured: Out of reach to majority.
• Revealed: Fundamental principle of life in Christ.
Eschatological Dimensions:
Obscured: Life cut off from the world or world cut off
from life of the kingdom.
Revealed: Incarnation and kingdom of God present;
Kingdom within through gift of the Spirit (active eschatology, touching every aspect of the world; living now in light of the End).
Beauty Saves the World:
Obscured: Culture as cult, autonomous from God and
guided by sensibilities of the age.
Revealed: Rediscovery of culture through the beauty
of holiness. Jesus is the Holy One - the most beautiful of the sons of men. He is the perfect icon, manifesting God unveiled.
The Monastic Ideal:
Obscured: Return to the ancient forms of monastic
ascesis.
Revealed: Internalized. The human psyche is renewed
from within.
Five Fundamental Elements of Interiorized Monasticism (Upcoming Lectures):
• Prayer
• Eschatological Maximalism • Poverty
• Chastity
• Obedience
Tonight we read Step number 12 on Lying. Surprisingly this has always been a challenging step to read and to read as a group. Immediately our minds begin to swirl with the costs of loving the Truth and understanding that Truth is a person. Our starting point in such discussions is often examples that are extreme; things or circumstances that people might face within this life where lying might be justified. St. John addresses this and much more within the step. However, one has to be willing to suspend judgment and allow St. John to guide us along a path that deepens our sensitivity in regards to the Truth as a whole. Our starting point must be Christ. We must begin to understand that lying is a sin against charity, and to lie when making a vow or an oath is a denial of God himself. St. John understands very well that the Evil One can use something as innocent and enjoyable as humor to justify and to legitimize lying. Yet, John tells us that there are no small lies and once spoken they have an effect upon ourselves and others. They diminish the spirit of mourning; that is, compunction within the human heart. In doing so they distract us from the remembrance of God and the things of God. We must remember that God has given us a conscience, a means of knowing the truth with Him. This is what we must form through the gospel and through our participation in the life of Christ. We must also remember that the Evil One is the Father of Lies and will use a lie under the pretext of protecting others. In the face of this, St. John tells us, “when we are completely cleansed of lying, then we can resort to it, but only with fear and as occasion demands.” Only when the heart has been completely purified, where there is no love of falsehood and where there is the presence of great discernment, can such a decision be made. To love truth, St. John tells us, is the root of every good because it is to love Christ.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:25:04 Anthony Rago: I've also been thinking that our bodies and societies are parables of truth; and we can be lying by engaging in bad lifestyles. 00:37:35 Anthony Rago: I can imagine a confessor becoming very exasperated if we treat all this as confessable sins; and it would be very wearing on all of us. 00:39:28 David Swiderski: Like many other things isn't discernment take a place here. Is this so people will think I am funny (pride), will this hurt someone, will it erode trust (the cost of lies) or lead to a habit? 00:39:39 Anthony Rago: That makes sense, thanks 00:40:57 Cindy Moran: Corrie ten Boom lied to the Nazis when they asked if jews were in the house. This is ok? 00:44:09 Ren Witter: I feel like this is a really hard one. Intellectually, I actually feel like it is easy to understand. Emotionally, it kind of feels like one of those instances where being Christian can feel like a “kill-joy” to put it in a light way. Maybe the immense anxiety I feel in response to this is coming from the fear that being a Christian means no joy or every-day happiness. Its weird because I know that that isn’t true, but sometimes it can be hard to reconcile the lived experience of Christianity with the things the Fathers write. 00:46:34 Debra: Replying to "Corrie ten Boom lie..." I've read a priest's response to this, is Yes, it's ok; because the Nazis didn't have a right to what's going on in their home That we have dignity, and a right to privacy I'm interested to hear what Fr Abernethy says 😄 00:55:06 Anthony Rago: With humor - movies, comedy routines, Facebook - it is easy to go along, and then the story teller sneaks in covert of blatant evil things, and "bam," there they are in the head, coming to mind in an ambush when they are most unwelcome. 01:04:10 Daniel Allen: Ok so this may be making a little more sense to me. If the concern is with Truth, and Truth is a person, then we can have a tendency to come between Truth and another person (between the other and his remembrance of Truth Himself), which sort of reminds me of two parts of the Gospel - better to have a millstone tied around your neck and cast into the sea than to cause the fall of one of these little ones, and also, what God has joined let no man divide. Neither are traditionally applied to this type of thought, but if by our jesting, and always (or often) making light of things we can get between a person and his remembrance of God (or mourning), then in a way we are doing just that on a spiritual level, dividing the person from his remembrance of God. We can (generally unintentionally) get between God and another person, and generally to pump up our own ego. The lying part makes sense, it’s the joking that’s hard to get. 01:11:37 Jacqulyn: Proverbs 26:18-19 - Like a maniac shooting flaming arrows of death is one who deceives their neighbor and says, "I was only joking." 01:15:40 Debra: Cindy Moran, up above, asked about that very point 01:20:23 David Swiderski: The trap of whataboutism deflects from a general truth 01:23:09 Bonnie Lewis: So I will only be finally cleansed in Purgatory? 01:23:49 Debra: In vino veritas 01:24:08 Anthony Rago: Greek Text of this chapter is here: https://el.wikisource.org/wiki/%CE%9A%CE%BB%CE%AF%CE%BC%CE%B1%CE%BE/%CE%9B%CF%8C%CE%B3%CE%BF%CF%82_%CE%99%CE%92 I can barely read Greek and can't now locate the word "torture." 01:25:16 Ambrose Little, OP: About being jovial, I have a fondness for this part of St. Thomas Aquinas’ prayer “for ordering a life wisely” (notably the last three lines): O Lord my God, make me submissive without protest, poor without discouragement, chaste without regret, patient without complaint, humble without posturing, cheerful without frivolity, mature without gloom, and quick-witted without flippancy. Being dour and scolding is not good, neither is flippancy and frivolity. Cheerfulness is a good thing within measure. 01:25:32 Anthony Rago: "agoneia" 01:25:49 Debra: Reacted to "About being jovial, ..." with ❤️ 01:25:50 Daniel Allen: I think one thing I take from this is that I often don’t consider the significance of my own words, and that words have greater significance than generally thought 01:26:08 carol nypaver: Reacted to "About being jovial, ..." with ❤️ 01:26:09 Ashley Kaschl: Reacted to "About being jovial, …" with 🔥 01:26:25 Cath Lamb: Reacted to "I think one thing I ..." with ❤️ 01:27:19 Anthony Rago: Reacted to "About being jovial..." with ❤️ 01:27:21 Cath Lamb: Thank you! 01:27:27 Cindy Moran: Excellent session...thank you Father 01:27:30 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:27:42 Art: Thank you! 01:27:55 Jeff O.: Thank you! Good to be with you all. 01:27:59 Bonnie Lewis: Prayers of course! 01:29:15 Bonnie Lewis: that's right because I received an email.
In these hypotheses, we have been reflecting upon the practice of asceticism, especially in light of the relationship between an Elder and his disciple; that is, in relationship to obedience. We are shown in these stories the ABC’s of the ascetic life and in particular that of the virtue of obedience.
What does it mean to let go of private judgment? What does it mean to set aside one’s will even in small things in our day-to-day life? How do we train the mind and the heart in this virtue; so that when we are asked to pick up our cross or when we are reduced to raw endurance and cannot see the road ahead of us, we are able to respond in love? We are shown in the stories that one must begin small. It is in letting go of our sensitivities in the small things, and allowing love to trump everything that this virtue takes root. It means being more attentive to the “other”, to what is asked of us and what people need, than to holding on to what we want, or what seems right or convenient to us.
There is part of us that shrinks back in a spirit of objection to what is being taught here. It seems unnatural to us. But what is really being asked of us or rather where we are being led to embrace is the supernatural. What we are being guided to is the perfect love and self emptying obedience that we see in Christ. We should have a similar desire to have obedience to God’s will as our very food. We must see it as something that sustains and nourishes us mystically.
Not fulfilling the will of God or choosing the path of sin should become something that is abhorrent to us. Such lessons can be learned only with humility. Beyond this, we are shown the incredible responsibility of those who are elders. Their actions, their requests and demands of their disciples must be rooted in the desire for their salvation, and for their good. They will be held accountable as shepherds.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:06:17 David Fraley: Hello Mrs Abernethy! 00:08:28 FrDavid Abernethy: page 305 00:08:28 David Fraley: Hi Fr David! 00:08:35 FrDavid Abernethy: Hi Dave!! 00:14:32 Debra: Step 11...on talkativeness....was really convicting 00:14:51 FrDavid Abernethy: yes it was!! 00:15:10 Debra: Ooops...wrong meeting LOL 00:25:19 Rachel: Maybe he wanted to see if his disciple was stuoid. 00:25:37 Rachel: stupid. Sorry. I should not joke. 00:28:57 iPhone: Reacted to "Maybe he wanted to s…" with ❤️ 00:29:19 Rachel: Yes, I doubt he was stupid nor did the elder think that. 00:30:07 Rachel: I wonder though, what would be all of our reactions to this reality in our everyday lives? 00:52:38 Anthony Rago: This has got to be specific to novices. Saints (Elizabeth of Hungary?) are praised for charity against the wishes of the head of household 00:55:36 Anthony Rago: But if these people can't use discretion, they also can fall into legalism - oops I don't have permission, I can't act on my own. 00:58:32 Anthony Rago: The religious life then is horribly dangerous. 01:01:01 Anthony Rago: That indicates then that people cannot abandon their discretion, they have to withhold some obedience, so they can judge the situation, whether it is healthy or crazy - or just not for them. 01:05:15 Anthony Rago: Yes, I've seen situations both of people in religious life and married life that were just psychologically off. 01:05:25 Ambrose Little, OP: He also says submit to each other. 01:08:30 Debra: I always suggest Chrysogonus 01:09:09 Debra: for a baby's name He could just be called Chrys 01:18:36 Rachel: Thank you all, Thank you Father 01:19:08 Rachel: :) lol
Tonight we explored an often neglected aspect of the spiritual life; or one might better say an essential part of the spiritual life – Fasting. Throughout the spiritual tradition, we have heard the Saints tell us that “prayer without fasting is weak” or that “where there is no prayer and fasting there are demons.”
With the coming of Christ, however, we see a unique and distinctive meaning of fasting emerge. It is not only a discipline to help order the appetites or a form of penitence. It is tied directly to Christ: what we see in His practice and in what He teaches us about it. His own fasting is guided by the Holy Spirit in preparation for embracing the Father’s will, and His desire that it might be accomplished. Beyond this, Christ teaches us that our practice of fasting is forever tied to our desire for Him. He is the Heavenly Bridegroom and each soul the Bride. We see and experience in Him the One alone who can satisfy the deepest desires of the human heart. He is the Bread of Life.
The focus of our discussion this night was on recapturing not only the practice of fasting, but seeing it as something that is to be “loved”, precisely because it draws us to Christ. It is not a discipline but a path to draw nearer to the Beloved.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:25:01 Stephen McCane: I have doing this “Exodus 90” and it is like a warm up to Lent. 00:25:51 Stephen McCane: For women it is called “Fiat 90”. 00:45:48 Adam Paige: Hi Father, should laypeople share their Lenten fasting plans with their spiritual director in the same way Saint Benedict instructs his monks to do with their spiritual father in his rule ? 01:14:51 Victoria: here is the book pdf: https://ia902908.us.archive.org/6/items/tolovefasting/To%20Love%20Fasting.pdf 01:15:41 Victoria: Free on Internet Archive :) 01:16:14 Adam Paige: Original version in French: https://folleautonomie.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/adalbert-de-Vogue-Aimer-Le-Jeune.pdf 01:21:00 Adam Paige: Reacted to "here is the book pdf…" with 👍 01:33:07 angelo: Reacted to "here is the book pdf..." with ❤️ 01:33:20 angelo: Replying to "here is the book pdf..." thank you 01:33:53 Matt Mondorff: I’ve found that our physical bodies don’t require much food, it’s mainly our mind and habits that convince us that we’re hungry. So to realize that and push through the initial hunger, knowing it’s coming but we’ll be ok has helped me a lot. Then, little by little it gets easier to go longer and longer. Eating healthy and moderately helps also…it seems to my anyway 01:47:52 Lori Hatala: you can saute in broth. 01:48:12 Fr. Michael Winn: A former monk of Mt. Athos once told me that in North America it would be inadvisable to stop all use of oil during the winter seasons - reduce, but do not eliminate. 01:57:15 Kathy: My experience of fasting is that it is a type of prayer in and of itself.
Tonight, we read Step number 11 on “talkativeness and silence.” Fittingly, it is very brief, if not the briefest of all of the steps of The Ladder. This brevity is St. John’s way of teaching us that so much of our speech involves vainglory; putting ourselves on display. We seek through it to step out of ourselves; betraying the painful experience we have as human beings of our lack of identity. God has created us for himself. He has created us in his image and likeness precisely that we might not experience ourselves in isolation, but rather in communion. However, to enter into communion with God means to step out of our limited ways of perceiving the world around us and reality as a whole. This means allowing God, through the silence,
to draw us in faith into the experience of His life, light and love. To give ourselves over to talkativeness is to find ourselves dissipated. Our desire for God cools and the emptiness that we feel drives us to fill our lives with anything and everything so that we do not feel alone. Despite having God dwelling within us, once we lose sight of him, silence becomes an enemy. Therefore, John tells us that we must foster silence as a habit. We must allow God to show us its value, and what it makes possible for us. The first step is to create external silence. Once we have done this, we often see the unsettledness of our minds and hearts.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:11:45 Cindy Moran: Is your patron saint Matthew? 00:15:18 John & Heather: Do you mind mentioning what edition this group uses? 00:15:54 Debra: I saw your post on FB about it 00:16:41 John & Heather: Replying to "Do you mind mentioni..." Great...thank you. 00:16:43 Cindy Moran: I really liked Ren's presentation on the prayer rope 00:17:38 FrDavid Abernethy: Yes. Excellent. She makes the most exquisite prayer ropes as well. 00:17:51 FrDavid Abernethy: Maybe she will put up the website address. 00:27:32 Eric Ewanco: My translation says "foe of license" instead of "enemy of freedom of speech" 00:41:56 Bonnie Lewis: This is why adoration before the Blessed Sacrament is such a beautiful gift where silence is filled with God's love for us. 00:43:12 Vicki Nichols: Would this silence include silencing the "inner chatter" of your thoughts or is it only external silence? 00:53:28 Rebecca Thérèse: I've found that people who chatter continuously don't care if you're listening or not so I can zone out! 00:54:01 wayne: Reacted to "I've found that peop..." with 😂 00:55:21 iPhone: Amen 00:56:08 Ambrose Little, OP: Reacted to "I've found that peop..." with 😂 00:58:48 iPhone: Totally 00:59:06 Ambrose Little, OP: My in-laws feel that way about visiting here—the kiddos are a constant background buzzing. 🙂 You can get acclimated.. 00:59:19 Eric Ewanco: How do we in the world balance silence with the cultivation of valuable relationships in life, for example at work or whatever? In other words, how do we discern the threshold of silence to maintain -- there is the absolute silence of a monk, and the rambling of the garroulous, where do we draw the line? 01:00:17 Debra: I wear hearing aids, but only if I'm going somewhere were I HAVE to listen...like Mass, or meetings As soon as I'm out of that meeting, I take out my aids, because the world is such a noisy place!! 01:00:54 Debra: Reacted to "My in-laws feel that..." with 😁 01:08:21 iPhone: + 1 01:12:20 Anthony Rago: Being someone who does work from home, and lives alone, the silence does not feel too great all the time. Only the deep silence when in my workshop or working in my kitchen or dining room or times like that is satisfying. 01:12:49 Debra: So much ambient noise...Like you mentioned, noise does create anxiety I can literally feel tension leave, when I take my hearing aids out. 01:13:18 Debra: Reacted to "Being someone who do..." with 🤗 01:16:40 iPhone: Making a note of it 01:16:53 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:17:48 Debra: Thanks be to God Thank you! Good night!
Obedience! The root of the word is to hear or to listen. What emerges in reading the fathers is that our capacity to hear the word of God is rooted in our willingness to set aside our own willfulness, ego, and our private judgment. We often become obstinate and entrenched in our own view of things in such a way that we are no longer able to hear the advice or counsel of others. We are shown in this evening’s text that sometimes we must be left to our own devices to experience the poverty of our choices that are contrary to the will of God and His love.
What also emerges is that obedience is not rooted in law but love. Obedience is the fruit of a deep relationship with God, and with one’s spiritual elder. An elder must love his disciple, and recognize that he bears responsibility for his salvation and so must give him constant care. The disciple must reciprocate this love and respect. In doing so, he enables the elder to be a true shepherd and not a mere hireling. This mutual obedience elevates the entire church and allows it to make present the humble love of Christ crucified to the world.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:49:18 Anthony Rago: I may have heard that sentiment too 00:49:29 Ambrose Little, OP: It’s probably saying that he’s true enough to Scripture and expansive in his guidance to cover such a loss. But it’s just a hypothetical. 00:50:35 Ambrose Little, OP: Hyperbole, like when Jesus says to cut off the hand that causes us to sin. Exaggeration to make a point about the quality of his teaching. 00:52:01 Anthony Rago: How may we properly revere persons not exactly in communion with Catholics? I LOVE the works of St. Gregory of Narek - but if Pope Francis had not made him a Doctor of the Church, I would have forced myself to be cautious. I'd love to go wholehearted into Coptic Orthodox spirituality / theology, but how cautious should we be? 01:00:58 Ambrose Little, OP: Echoes what St. Ignatius of Antioch (disciple of St. John the Apostle) says of the faithful’s relationship with their bishop. 01:12:12 Ambrose Little, OP: There is an amazing genius in the story-based instruction of the Evergetinos. It really makes ideas stick in a memorable way. 01:14:17 Anthony Rago: I'm open to it 01:14:19 David Fraley: I’d be interested. 01:14:21 carol nypaver: Sure! 01:14:29 Paul Fifer: Me too. 01:14:54 John & Heather: Would be interested.
This evening we continued and completed Step number 10 on “slander and calumny.” Something very special emerges about John in the writing of this step. We see something very personal about John’s capacity to love and his purity of heart. He acknowledges his own struggle with judging others as sinners, when in reality they were pure of heart in secret. Thus, John’s repeated counsel is not to judge at all; even when we see things with a kind of clarity. We often have blind spots and dark spots in our evaluation of the others. Beyond this, the Evil One puts before us smoke, if you will, making us think that there is sin present where none exist.
All that we are allowed to do is to love others. This means that we always attribute their sin to the action of demons. We are to look for the good in others and look for ways that we can support and lift them up if they are struggling. This means setting aside the morbid delight that we take in judging and the feeling of emotional power that we think it gives us over and against them. We must acknowledge the radical solidarity that exist between us and foster a spirit of generosity towards each other. To seize for ourselves a prerogative that belongs only to God is ruinous to the soul. May God preserve us!
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Text of chat during the group:
00:23:24 Bridget McGinley: Father, sorry...little long....I just wanted to follow up from last week with a comment/question. I was not able to type this fast enough. It was in relation to what you were saying about being serious and stern in presenting the Faith. You mentioned about your early sermon and how it was perceived by the college kids. I used to be pretty sanguine. Life has taken it’s toll. I once heard Bishop Sheen say something that was pretty profound. He stated, “Christ had many emotions that were written about in the Bible but never did he smile or laugh.” Bishop Sheen stated that He is saving those for us in Heaven. Looking at Step 10 point 2 many people nowadays are pretty “shameless and very happy” and it is hard for me to find smiles and joy surrounded by the deluge. In tip-toeing around the obvious moral problems these days how does one escape mental slander which sometimes manifests as verbal slander? And how does one show a non-judgemental face? 00:37:37 iPhone: Anen Father 00:49:25 Rebecca Thérèse: Part of Leviticus 19 came into my mind in relation to not judging at all 15 You shall not render an unjust judgment; you shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great: with justice you shall judge your neighbor. 16 You shall not go around as a slanderer[a] among your people, and you shall not profit by the blood[b] of your neighbor: I am the Lord. 17 You shall not hate in your heart anyone of your kin; you shall reprove your neighbor, or you will incur guilt yourself. 18 You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against any of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord. 00:57:02 Anthony Rago: Since the Late Middle Ages, our culture has been both immoral and curious. We want the knowledge of St. Thomas Aquinas' Summas, but we have not as eagerly gone to the other side of him, the one that made the Pange Lingua 00:57:39 Anthony Rago: We want knowledge for curiousity's sake, but not the humility of devotion 00:57:54 Ambrose Little, OP: Do you think the nature of social media has made this particular trap of the Devil more prevalent? 00:58:30 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: How great it would be to always be centered on noting the virtues it observes in others! 00:58:47 Ambrose Little, OP: Amen, Sister! 01:03:12 Bridget McGinley: As a nurse I can attest it is physically and mentally debilitating communicating. Many of my co workers talk about how they can't even talk after a shift. Verbal interaction is very challenging. 01:11:45 Ambrose Little, OP: About #12 and #15.. I recently learned of a few very vocal critics (including a former apologist) in the Church ending up leaving the Faith, either entirely or moving to a sect. It’s very sad. There is something in what St. John is saying they’re for sure—that this kind of behavior can be ruinous. 01:17:21 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father! 01:17:23 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:18:23 Ren Witter: Philokalia.link/tolovefasting 01:18:41 carol nypaver: Time??
Tonight we picked up with Hypothesis 34. Again we are introduced into the practice of asceticism; in particular, how it is embraced in the spirit of obedience. We were given multiple stories of individuals who, out of love for their elder, respond with an immediacy to their demand or request. In each case we are shown the deep fruit that this bears.
However, the greater task for us is to look at our lives and to see if we have prepared our hearts to receive the seed of our Lord‘s word as he calls us to the life of holiness. Do we respond with swiftness when called to prayer or with zeal when called to embrace the practice of fasting or urgency when called respond to someone in need or jeopardy?
What the stories show us is that obedience is based upon a relationship, not law. It is love that makes us run to respond to Christ and to those He has given to us to guide us along the path to Him. If our asceticism or obedience lacks this love, then it is something that is suspect.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:10:43 B David: hi all Ben David here. sort of new here... 00:10:55 FrDavid Abernethy: welcome Ben! 00:12:24 David Fraley: Hello Ben! 00:12:59 David Fraley: I did. I found a place in West View. 00:21:09 Bridget McGinley: St Hesychios in the Philokalia states “ a faithful servant is one who expresses his faith in Christ through obedience to His commandments. Father, if one cannot find an “elder” can one be assured of the graces and gifts of obedience by simply following the commandments? 00:24:33 Bridget McGinley: thank you 00:33:13 Anthony Rago: This is in stark contrast with the pagans - example the fear in the Adventures of Ulysses, in the trip to Hades, land of the shades. 00:35:22 Anthony Rago: The Coptic Hymn to St George names him the conqueror of his tormentors 01:14:40 David Fraley: Thank you, Father!
The subtle movements of the human heart and mind stand revealed while reading the Ladder of Divine Ascent. As one makes one’s way through the text, it becomes clear that it is an inevitability. We must stand ready to have our hearts illuminated and the places that we desire to keep in darkness, whether consciously or unconsciously, exposed. Yet, somehow, when these words come from the pen of a Saint, there is a healing that one begins to experience; even as we know the sting of the words. Knowing and seeing the truth lightens the mind and the heart and opens us to experience the grace and the mercy of God. By removing the impediments to the action of that grace, we find ourselves no longer running with a heavy tread under the burden and the weight of some hidden guilt or wound, but freely and swiftly moving towards He who is Love.
The jarring nature of John’s words is eventually overcome by the confidence in his desire, as well as God’s, to bring us healing. Such is the case with John’s description of the remembrance of wrongs. He makes it clear that without remedy, it can poison the heart and become dark spite. The more we nurture our anger, the more the heart becomes poisoned, and we eventually only see the faults of others. To be free of this burden, he tells us, allows us to boldly ask our Savior for the release of our own sins.
John would have us show no hesitancy and experience no doubt about what coming to God brings us. If we do not attend to this wound, what is born from it is slander. This, he tells us, drains the blood of love and becomes the patron of a heavy and unclean heart. In our anger, we may diminish another through our words, but the consequence that has for ourselves is far greater. It is a coarse disease that only Christ and gazing upon Christ crucified can heal.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:07:24 Anthony Rago: Tractor Supply, too 00:08:15 Anthony Rago: time for an exorcism of the air.... 00:09:39 FrDavid Abernethy: page 126 para 13 00:12:43 Cindy Moran: Oooo...Yes! 00:22:53 Anthony Rago: Then this would apply also to wrongs WE have done, too, that filter our His healing? 00:27:03 sue and mark: I have found that if I am struggling in this area..that if I ask God to forgive them for me... it is easier also to bring me to that place of forgiveness that he desires 00:32:12 Anthony Rago: This is what I have a hard time understanding: sin, mortal and venial, which is emphasized so much in the admonishion if frequent confessions....so much emphasis on me, me, me. 00:35:42 Anthony Rago: How often is good? 00:39:56 Anthony Rago: Thank you 00:55:41 Rebecca Thérèse: I'm still puzzled as to the difference between spite and dark spite 00:57:43 Cindy Moran: Who is the author of the book you mentioned last week "Orthodox Psychotherapy"? 00:57:44 Ambrose Little, OP: Maybe something like.. If you harbor it secretly in the “darkness” of your inner self. You don’t allow it to be brought into the Light, examined for what it is, and see that it is wrong and needs to be eliminated. 00:57:59 carol: Dark definition includes “angry, threatening, arising from evil, sinister” 00:58:38 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you all 01:01:16 Ambrose Little, OP: “Speaking the truth in love” is one of the most abused phrases. 01:03:23 Anthony Rago: Chastity covers up, it is modest. Unchastity is an unholy exposure. 01:11:29 Rachel: LOL 01:11:49 Anthony Rago: I think you're right. More St. Francis is needed, less "vert few will be saved." 01:13:08 Lee Graham: The river of life flowing out of us 01:14:37 Rachel: ouch 01:15:45 Rachel: Thank you 01:15:47 Jeff O.: Thank you! 01:15:56 Devansh Shukla: Thank you 01:15:57 Rachel: YES!! 01:16:08 Bernadette Truta: Yes please! 01:16:09 Art: Thank you good night. Yes I’m interested in the Zoom group on fasting. 01:16:10 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂 01:16:10 Ambrose Little, OP: Yes 01:16:12 Deb Dayton: Is this in person? 01:16:13 sue and mark: yes 01:16:16 Jacqulyn: Yes... I am interested! 01:16:19 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: when?
Reading the fathers deeply is unsettling. It strikes against every sensibility that we have and calls into question our perception of reality itself. In this sense, their writings are meant to illuminate the gospels for us and allow them to challenge us. So often we become lukewarm simply because things have become familiar and comfortable to us. We lose sight of the fact that in the face of Christ’s teaching individuals tore their garments and repeatedly wanted to put him to his death and eventually did accomplish this.
What does reading the gospel or the fathers give rise to within our hearts and consciences? The stories about obedience in this hypothesis are startling; we can hardly imagine ourselves enduring such things for a moment, let alone seeing them as something that are a means to freeing us from self-will and from the ego. What is it that we love? What stirs our hearts to their greatest desire? What are we willing to die for? Is Christ our Beloved or merely the construction of our minds and imaginations to make us feel safe in this world?
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Text of chat during the group:
00:21:29 Paul Fifer: This paragraph sounds a lot like the Russian movie named “The Island”. 00:21:58 Anthony Rago: Reminds me of "Ostrov / Island" in which the foolish monk tends the coal furnace for 30 or so years 00:22:30 Charbel: A fantastic film, I get some folks together to watch it at the beginning of the Fast every year. 00:24:03 carol nypaver: Profound film! I need to watch it again. 00:24:38 Ambrose Little, OP: Much like having small children. 🙂 00:25:52 Anthony Rago: Culturally, in Sicily, my family had livestock on the ground floor. Same with Padre Pio's family. Living quarters were upstairs. Maybe the monk lived in a downstairs "barn" and the others lived on the floor(s) above. 00:27:54 Deb Dayton: Reacted to "Much like having sma..." with 😂 00:28:00 carol nypaver: Very interesting, Anthony. Thank you for the insight. 00:39:16 Charbel: Apologies for ducking out. I'm taking an extra shift at the shelter and may have to step away from time to time as folks come into my office. 00:39:22 Joyce and Jim Walsh: Story of the Monk reminds me of the indignities suffered by St. FAUSTINA as noted in her Diary. 00:51:40 Anthony Rago: But if we are in the image of God, I see a tension. One the one hand, there is the parable of the unworthy servants doing only what is expected of you. But on the other hand, you are made in the image of God, and I would thing, there is room for some sense of ego and satisfaction. Not smugness, but joy and satisfaction. 00:53:52 iPhone: Amen Father 01:04:05 iPhone: Really Powerful Message. 01:13:14 Denise T. : This is probably really worldly of me, but if you allow someone to hurt you unjustly or lie about you or anything else that is deliberately inflicted by another without saying anything, will that be good for them. There seems a sense of justice is lost. Not saying anything. 01:20:05 Denise T. : Thank you, Father. 01:20:16 carol nypaver: Do those who inflict the “punishment” on us, also become more saintly even if their intent is NOT that we become more patient, humble, etc.? Especially if they are not our “elders”? If we become holier for what we endure at their hands, do they also grow in holiness if we endure patiently? 01:21:27 Sharon: Thank youThere are certain moments while reading the fathers when one trembles. The truth expressed is so vivid and pierces so deeply that the experience of it is visceral. One is shaken. This is not easy to endure, and perhaps there are moments when reading such texts becomes a stumbling block for our minds and our hearts. However, when they speak the truth of Christ and when they reveal the depth of love that we are called to in Him, ultimately these words are healing. The fathers, in so many ways, are spiritual physicians. Their words cut like a scalpel and cut deeply. But they cut out the “rot” as John describes it. The remembrance of wrongs, which is the offspring of anger, is not something that we can remove on our own. Untreated it spreads like a cancer. The fact, John tells us it has no offspring because it poisons the soul so completely that it makes us incapable of love.
May God give us the grace to listen with humility and gratitude. We are given such loving fathers who desire nothing but our healing. When we begin to trust that, then their words become as bright and illuminating as the sun.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:03:54 FrDavid Abernethy: Page 125 Step number 9 00:20:29 Anthony: Another kind of remembering wrongs is to trod the path of bad example someone has set...examples, hearing cursing, and then carrying on that "tradition" instead of cutting it off; or doing violence because someone else did violence to you (a chain of abuse). 00:22:58 Eric Ewanco: My translation titles this section "On Malice" (with a translation note that also offers "remembrance of wrongs). Your translation refers to "hourly malice" (mine says "rancor by the hour"). Can you elaborate on the relationship between malice and remembrance of wrongs? 00:24:12 Ashley Kaschl: Could a victim mentality be tied to the “pleasureless feeling cherished in the sweetness of bitterness” part? 00:24:26 Bonnie Lewis: So I shouldn't be troubled that I can relate so deeply to this step? 00:27:16 iPhone: Whoa. Amen Father 00:28:30 Anthony: Healing. In Divine Comedy, Dante is washed in a river of forgetfulness when passing from Purgatory to Heaven, so he can forget all memory of sin. 00:31:35 iPhone: +1 00:48:05 iPhone: Love these Sessions Father ! 00:48:53 Daniel Allen: The internet, for a million different reasons, is dangerous… not reading the fathers. 00:50:52 carol: How does one speak freely in the context of therapy or spiritual direction while also avoiding the remembrance of wrongs? 00:55:37 Charbel & Justin: Demons are fundamentally chaotic. 01:05:47 Anthony: Remember that the demons make suckers and schlubs out of all of us. It makes it easier to have compassion on another. 01:07:09 iPhone: Amen 01:08:37 Bonnie Lewis: true 01:08:47 iPhone: Love that 01:10:37 iPhone: Much work to do in this regard. 01:12:17 Ashley Kaschl: This entire section reminds me of a quote by St. John of the Cross: “Whenever anything disagreeable happens to you, remember Christ crucified and be silent.” 01:12:25 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:12:26 Bonnie Lewis: This step is excellent Father. Much to ponder. 01:12:43 Debra: Reacted to "This entire section ..." with ❤️ 01:12:44 iPhone: Amen Father. Tremendous ! 01:13:39 Jeff O.: Amen, thank you Father. Great to be with you all.
The further we get into the Evergetinos, the more we are poised to begin to understand something important: our pursuit of virtue, such as obedience, is rooted first and foremost in our love and desire for God. We embrace the ascetical life, we embrace very difficult practices and and pursue virtue, not as a test of endurance. It is a response to a love and a desire deeply rooted within our hearts. The grace of God begins to allow us to comprehend that we are heirs of the kingdom, that we are sons and daughters of God. To pursue this path outside of this context is to make ourselves the most pitiable of all creatures. To embrace all, even the hatred of the world for the love of Christ is most beautiful and precious of things.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:12:04 FrDavid Abernethy: page 290 paragraph 6 00:42:10 Anthony: Is this why there are numerous examples of the monastics in tears, but little about the sacrament of Confession? Because they saw their hearts and were in a state of grief and contrition? 00:42:55 Lee Graham: “Love and do what you will.” Augustine (354-430). A sermon on love. St Aurelius Augustine Sermon on 1 John 4:4-12. 00:44:10 carol nypaver: I thought it was “Love God, then do as you please.” ? 00:59:19 Ambrose Little, OP: See #8 here for the St. Augustine quote in context: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/170207.htm 01:01:19 Anthony: Then St. Francis of Assisi was a marble pillar - almost a Fool for Christ, but so joyful and at times profoundly mournful 01:03:11 Anthony: Did saints like Francis and Philp Neri have elders or were they directly inspired? 01:03:12 Ambrose Little, OP: You mean he didn’t publish a blog about how wrong the Holy Father was?? 😄 01:07:19 Anthony: Well in our time we were not brought up with the saints. We were brought up with revolutionaries, with men who bent society to their will - with ambitious men, and THIS is virtue to us when we are young. 01:10:15 Ambrose Little, OP: Independence and Liberty are the chief American virtues. 01:15:52 Ambrose Little, OP: May you be saved!
As we follow Saint John’s teaching on the passion of anger, we truly begin to get a sense of what a great spiritual teacher and physician he and the other fathers are. St. John has the capacity to see the various ways that anger manifests itself in our lives, the subtlety of the demon’s trickery, and the danger of our own blindness to self-conceit. St. John makes it very clear to us that if we struggle with the passion of anger we must be willing to place ourselves in a situation where we are going to be able to diagnose it and bring it before another in order that a healing balm might be applied. The person who is in the grip of anger is going to bring agitation to all those around him. Therefore, a person must go where this passion might revealed by testing and overcome by trial. Austerity in life and firmness from one’s spiritual director or elder is often needed to break one free from the grip of this passion. However, John tells us, he who has won this battle by sweat has conquered all the passions that precede it. Let us then not be afraid to be mortified in regards to our self-esteem and pride; for they both collaborate to hold us captive.
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00:07:22 FrDavid Abernethy: page 122, paragraph 17 00:10:12 Bonnie Lewis: Hi Father David! 00:14:21 FrDavid Abernethy: page 122 para 17 00:55:12 Ambrose Little, OP: “fuller’s shop”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulling 01:03:43 Bonnie Lewis: we lost you 01:04:17 carol nypaver: Come back, Father! 01:04:28 Sheila Applegate: You are frozen for us all. :( 01:15:58 Rafael Patrignani: Thaís week I had to face w tough situation from my Chief, who received false accusations against me. The advice I had received from my spiritual director was to be ready to listen for understanding but not for having a reaction. I found this very coincidental with your speech Father David. That position was very useful in that meeting and for that kind of attack 01:16:10 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:16:11 Rafael Patrignani: * this 01:16:12 Jeff O.: Thank you!! 01:16:17 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father 01:16:17 Rafael Patrignani: Thank you 01:16:23 Dev Shukla: Thank you
What is our standard of judgment? When we consider anything about life in this world, or our struggle with vice, or seeking to grow in virtue, where do we look? So often we, even in our spiritual struggles, look to our own reason and judgment. The problem with this is that we only see partial truths, even when we see things clearly. We all have hard spots and blind spots in our perception of reality and of others. If anything, John’s writing on anger and meekness remind us that there must be a willingness as Christians to suspend our judgment and allow the grace of God to touch our minds and hearts; so that we can perceive the greater reality about the other person, even when they commit evil against us. The standard for us is Christ. The standard is the cross and cruciform love. It is when our minds and our hearts have been shaped by this Love, that we begin to be guided by the spirit of peace; and our minds are illuminated with the greater truth of the goodness of the other created in the image and likeness of God and redeemed by the blood of Christ.
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00:32:08 Deb Dayton: So many (me) hear to rebut, rather than listen for understanding 00:44:13 Jeff O.: So holy/righteous anger is anger directed at the true enemy - the “demons” - and anger towards another undermines their dignity as an imager of God> 00:48:14 Ambrose Little, OP: Might have more luck typing it in. 00:51:25 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: What about anger that motivates one to take action for justice for others? Any room in the Fathers for this? Or is that called something else in their terminology? 00:54:34 Daniel Allen: It is interesting because it seems like Christ acted by suffering with the suffering and without destroying the one causing the suffering 01:00:49 Daniel Allen: A hopeful reading for the Irish such as myself 01:03:24 carol nypaver: Can’t acting out a virtue (patience/silence) lead us to actually acquire that virtue? 01:06:05 Ambrose Little, OP: It seems like while anger can be a useful motivator to act, the more perfect motivation is love. If we see someone hurting and in need, the motivation of compassion and charity seems more than sufficient motive to act, even when the pain/need is caused by some injustice. And when love is our motive, we can then turn that same love towards even the offender, who may be in even greater need by their damaging of their relationship with God and others—they may be imperiling their eternal soul, in addition to whatever circumstances may have led to their unjust action. Contrast that to anger, which only tends to act in favor of the victim, while often seeking the suffering of the offender (or at best ignoring the offender’s need). 01:14:51 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:14:54 iPhone (2): Thank you! 01:15:01 Jeff O.: Thank you, great being with you all. 01:15:01 Art: Thank you!!
What does obedience allow us to hear? This may seem to be a funny question. In light of how we often characterize obedience or think about it in our own lives, so often it is about setting aside our own will and having to do what another tells us to do. But in light of the fathers’ writings, it becomes clear that obedience is not a kind of slavishness. The etymology of the word obedience is “to hear.” It allows us to listen and to receive a Word from God that reveals divine truth. Obedience raises us up to comprehend the very love that has saved us.
Of course, one must admit that it is jarring to our sensibilities and our reason. When we hear the stories of the monks’ obedience, we begin to see that it had to do more with their desire for God, their yearning to be conformed to Christ who emptied himself to take upon our humanity and become obedient even unto death. Our obedience leads us to hear that word spoken in our own heart, inviting us to draw close to Christ in every way. This means embracing a wisdom that is wholly unlike what is made manifest within the world and so often shaped by sin. The fathers are living icons of the gospel. What they write and what they do becomes a window revealing the path that we are to walk and that will draw us closer to Christ.
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00:14:43 Anthony: I believe there are different sizes and thicknesses for different strength dogs 00:15:05 Debra: Yes...I think you can get them rated for different breeds 00:15:09 Babington (or Babi): I have one too 00:27:03 Paul Fifer: How would one then differentiate between this zeal and scrupulosity? 00:28:12 Babington (or Babi): Hmmm. Perhaps I’m being ruled by flesh at the moment but I feel resistant to this as the Word of God. If I heard correctly the the teacher led the seeker of God to starve himself potentially very destructively in year two. I don’t see that as God’s love. But again perhaps I’m missing something as I’m distracted by cooking for my dogs. 00:36:09 Babington (or Babi): Oh wait. A second day? I thought he directed him to fast for a whole year, not day. 00:41:00 Babington (or Babi): I get that saturated trusting submission and have tasted it as seeker towards a teacher. But not a whole year of very unhealthy fasting. As you clarify, extremes aren’t the Way. But I’ll go back and listen to podcast. Perhaps I misunderstood him and you. So sorry if so. Much love and gratitude. 🙏🏼🤍 00:43:10 Babington (or Babi): Fasting is great. I thought you read a year not day. A year seems like starvation. 00:45:59 Anthony: I suggest the stick was a fig branch; It is not entirely unreasonable to have him do this. 00:46:32 Anthony: Figs take about 3 years to fruit and this is one way how you start them (I've done it). 01:09:39 Ashley Kaschl: We don’t often come upon stories, though I know there have been a few, of brothers who were stirred to anger or resentment in the keeping of their obedience. Is there a correlation between being purified of anger, and the lack of an interior movement that might convince someone that the authority figure is lording their commands over the one being called to obedience? 01:11:46 Ashley Kaschl: So our anger can point to us the areas in our life where we need to grow in virtue so that we can be perfectly obedient?
Today someone mentioned to me that Saint John Climacus does not mince words when speaking about the spiritual life, and in particular when speaking about the passions. This is unequivocally true. John does not varnish the truth. His heart has been formed in such a way that it would be impossible to do so; his view of God, man, redemption, and sin is shaped by the cross, and by the fullness of the gospel. Such is the case in our reading this evening of Step 8. St. John begins to define for us the nature of freedom from anger and the virtue that leads us along that path: meekness.
In this step like so many others, our view of reality and our experience as human beings is going to be challenged. Our experience of aggression in ourselves and from others must be seen now through what has been revealed to us in Christ and through the Cross. We must allow the grace of God to shape our identity so deeply that we remain unmoved either by dishonor or by praise. Meekness is allowing the love of God to touch our emotions and affective state as well as the incensive faculty that protects us from sin.
The Scriptures teach us that “the anger of man does not bear fruit acceptable to God.” The reason for this is that such anger is often driven by an insatiable desire that we be treated in a fashion that satisfies our vainglorious needs or our sense of justice. Anger, however, can become so deeply rooted within the soul that bitterness becomes the lens through which we view relationships, and circumstances of every kind. It can become the log in our eye that prevents us from seeing any goodness in the world or others. Let us, then, listen attentively to what John says and allow him to guide us along this challenging path.
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00:03:22 FrDavid Abernethy: page 119, para 66 00:18:02 Maple(Hannah) Hong: What page? 00:19:24 Sean: Top of 120 00:20:06 Maple(Hannah) Hong: Thank you, Sean! 00:57:54 Jeff O.: Evagrius talks a lot about the blinding effect of anger on the intellect of the mind, blinding the seer and consequently how meekness allows us to see (know) God 00:58:11 Eric Ewanco: Reacted to "Evagrius talks a lot..." with 👍🏻 00:58:40 carol nypaver: 👍🏼 01:02:24 Ashley Kaschl: Something that might help give a little guidance in regards to feeling the emotion of anger is something that Ven. Fulton Sheen said when he gives perspective on Wrath vs. Righteous Anger, in that he writes, “Be angry, and sin not”; for anger is no sin under three conditions: (1) If the cause of the anger be just, for example, defense of God’s honor; (2) If it be no greater than the cause demands, that is, if it be kept under control; and (3) If it be quickly subdued: "Let not the sun go down upon your anger.” 01:04:03 Ambrose Little, OP: “How can one take a fire to his bosom and not be burned?” 01:04:36 carol nypaver: Awesome, Ashley. Can’t go wrong with Ven. Fulton Sheen! 01:08:22 Meghann (she/her) KS: is it like God's, Christ's expressions of anger are always intended toward repentance not punishment... opportunities of wakening not retributive...? Always pathways toward salvation, not "justice" or closure? Ours tend to be mixed and partial expressions 01:14:07 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂 01:14:54 kevin: Thanks father 01:14:55 Jeff O.: Thank you, great being with you all. 01:15:05 Art: Thank you father! 01:15:11 Mitchell Hunt: Thanks father David 01:15:12 Larisa and Tim: Thank you! 01:15:13 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father 01:15:17 Babington (or Babi): Thank you
To have Christ praying within us, to have Christ fasting within us, to have Christ suffering within us. We hear from the fathers that the ascetical life is meant to draw us into deeper communion with the Lord. The ascetic life must begin and end with Him. If not, it will bear no fruit. Only when our spiritual life is elevated by the grace of God does it become pleasing in God’s sight. Even our virtues must be perfected by His grace. We may have spent many years in silence and prayer and the pursuit of virtue. Then God in his providence may lead us along another path in order that he might fulfill the deepest desires of our heart as well as to bring us to salvation and the perfection of virtue.
We can have no conceit in this regard. Only God sees the nature and the depth of our desire and love. We must follow Him and allow Him to guide us through those He puts in charge of us or those He makes responsible for us. At times, it is only when we are pushed beyond the limits of human strength that we begin to see the power and the action of God’s grace.
Again we can have no illusions about our own desire. As strong as it might be, and even if it does come from God, our weakness and poverty can only be overcome through His mercy and by His wisdom. We must allow Him to draw us more and more deeply into the Paschal Mystery. We must allow our hearts to be shaped by Divine and self-emptying love.
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00:09:01 FrDavid Abernethy: page 279 J 00:51:54 Anthony: for Sunday of the Syrophoenecian woman, Father told us God tests all of us to have the faith to persevere to the end. 01:19:23 David Fraley: Thank you, Father!
What does it mean to live in Christ and for Him? Perhaps this is a question that we rarely ask ourselves because it’s too threatening. What would our lives look like if our response to God was absolute? What would our mourning for sin look like if our love for God was filled with desire for Him and for His will?
One would imagine that life, our lives would look much different. It is not just one part of ourselves that is to be touched by the grace of God, but every aspect of our being, our very essence. Saint John and the other Desert fathers speak of mourning for one’s sin in such a visceral fashion because they understood that they were called to participate in a Godly love. God took our flesh upon Himself in order that we might come to experience the fullness of His life and love. To experience themselves as turning away from this gift or betraying this love could only bring about the deepest mourning and their hearts. The question that we perhaps should be asking ourselves is: “why do we lack this quality of mourning?”
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00:24:51 Charbel & Justin: What page? 00:25:00 Bridget McGinley: 118 00:36:55 Anthony: This is interesting since I can't be the only one who wants to understand _before_ practicing; who wants to know before and judge whether something is worth perseverance. 01:05:59 Anthony: From my college Greek class, there is another connotation: "eleison" comes from the root "luo", "to loosen." 01:22:24 Ambrose Little, OP: It didn’t quite strike me this way before these meditations we are studying, but St. Paul seems to have been expressing this kind of mourning when he wrote about his inability to do the good he wants to do (in his inner self that loves the law of God) but instead does the evil at hand (in his flesh which is at war with himself): “Miserable one that I am! Who will deliver me from this mortal body?” But also immediately he proceeds to gratitude for victory through grace: “Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord.” The same also leads him to “glory in [his] weakness.” 01:25:47 Ambrose Little, OP: (The above was from NABre 🤷🏻♂️ 🙂 ) 01:26:05 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂 01:26:57 Jeff O.: Thank you! 01:27:08 kevin: Thank you 01:27:19 Cindy Moran: thank you
Our journey with Saint John Climacus has not been an easy one; in fact, we get a taste of walking upon that narrow path that leads to the kingdom simply through reading about his vision of the spiritual life and his experience. It reflects the reality and the challenges of the spiritual life, and in particular a life of penance and repentance. To give ourselves over to God, to seek his love above all things, to desire him more than we desire our own lives is the path that St. John is putting before us.
However, there is something within us that resists walking this path. Quite simply it is our ego - the self. Even in our pursuit of God, we can make ourselves every bit as willful in our spiritual discipline as we are in our relationships with others, and in our day-to-day work. Through his description of compunction (sorrow over one’s sins eventually leading to the experience of Godly Joy) St John is seeking to free us from the grip self-centeredness and its delusions.
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00:09:51 FrDavid Abernethy: page 166 para 49 00:09:56 Kate Truta: Hello! We are new to the group. We live in Colorado. 00:10:13 FrDavid Abernethy: page 116 00:10:20 Eric Ewanco: Welcome, Kate! 00:10:41 Kate Truta: Thank you! Good to be here! 00:19:40 Deb Dayton: Some I send to bring Father s lot of joy! 00:19:49 Deb Dayton: *Duke 00:21:20 Anthony: It's as if these accusations are like a kind of hell 00:24:59 Eric Ewanco: … or, purgatory 00:25:01 Kathy Locher: Can someone tell me what page we're on? 00:27:21 Bridget McGinley: 117 number 51 00:27:43 Kathy Locher: thanks! 00:29:40 Anthony: How does one distinguish the right "amount" of compunction versus a demonic despondency due to slander? 00:29:48 Cindy Moran: Flippant 00:30:14 Eric Ewanco: 👍🏻 00:31:08 Rebecca Thérèse: I'd heard previously that demonic knowledge is incomplete. Is that true and if so what does it mean? 00:41:49 Rachel: It seems like he means something even deeper than not distracting oneself from pain of heart or just as you are alluding to, he is taking it even further. Some songs can console and/or enhance one's sorrow that comes from a passionate nature or natural temperament. When the morning is composed, hidden and is allowed to go deep within by waiting on Our Lord, not escaping into a sorrow that consoles but waves of that abyss wash over one.. 00:42:18 Rachel: Mourning' 00:43:08 Rachel: lol me! 00:44:13 Rachel: Sorry, didnt complete that because St. John is describing it.. 00:48:35 Rachel: Father, can you think of a Saint whose life really manifests this gift St. John is speaking about? I am sure all of the Saints in some degree experience this but I mean whereit was clearly manifest. Would St. Theresa and St. Therese be examples of this joy? 00:51:55 Vicki Nichols: St. John Neumann manifests this gift, particularly when he was a young man. 00:52:10 Anthony: So then this fear is not necessarily "wrong" and self-focused, it is not merely an assault of the enemy but it is a permitted stage of repentance? Is it like what we call attrition that leads to contrition? 00:54:40 Vicki Nichols: iwas responding to the person before 00:54:44 Vicki Nichols: yes 00:56:17 Ambrose Little, OP: St. Dominic was said to often weep while keeping vigil. And he was also known to be supernaturally joyful. 01:00:00 Anthony: Another deep poet on these themes is St. Gregory of Narek, Doctor of the Church. 01:06:39 Cindy Moran: How does this apply to the Jesus Prayer? 01:08:49 Anthony: Is "constant receptivity" you often mention, or overthinking, evidence of the faculty of contemplation, but it is turned to an unworthy and self-destructive subject? 01:14:42 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂 01:14:46 Rachel: haha 01:14:52 Cindy Moran: 😊 01:15:29 Bridget McGinley: Thank you 01:15:35 Anthony: Thank you! 01:15:38 Ashley Kaschl: Thank you, Father! 01:15:39 Jeff O.: Thank you! 01:15:44 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!! 01:15:52 Rebecca Thérèse: Happy New Year🙂 01:15:57 Riccardo Orlandi: God bless
We continued our reading of hypothesis 32 and once again the words of the Fathers are piercing, very much like the words of scripture. This is what makes them ring so true. The Fathers never seek to varnish the truth. The path that we are called to walk upon is the path of Christ. We are called quite literally self-crucifixion. We are to die to self and sin, and to live for God and to live for Him alone. St Paul reminders us: “it is no longer I who lives I (ego) but Christ who lives within me.
It is for this reason that monasteries would put men to the test, making them wait long periods of time before entering. Why do you want to be here? Do you understand what it is that you were taking upon yourself and what you are setting aside? Do any of us understand what it is to love in the way that we have been shown on the Cross and in the Holy Eucharist?
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00:18:35 Debra: HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!! 00:19:35 Debra: Wow! I didn't realize you have listeners from ALL over the World!! 00:19:58 Ambrose Little, OP: Angela, always nice to have bright sunshine in these meetings. Especially this time of year. 🙂 00:39:28 Anthony: The Rule of St. Basil is pretty stern, too. It surprised me. 00:44:12 Mitch: The Fathers are harsh but it’s refreshing in a watered down, “everything is good enough” society 00:53:52 Anthony: Perhaps this is an example of the heresy of Americanism affecting the Church's attitude to priesthood as a profession. 01:00:10 Paul Fifer: FYI… Here is a link to a pdf for the book Father mentioned “The Struggle with God”… https://jbburnett.com/resources/evdokimov_strugglewGod1966.pdf 01:16:46 Anthony: Don't we vow perfection in baptismal vow? 01:18:02 Bridget McGinley: I was thinking the same thing Anthony. THis was the early Christians way of life married or lay 01:20:58 Anthony: IS this why the demons even suggest blasphemous thoughts - to make us see our beautiful God as ugly? Or to drive us away from trying to contemplate God? 01:23:49 Bridget McGinley: Thank you. Goodnight. 01:24:06 Anthony: Thanks :) 01:24:09 Ashley Kaschl: Thanks be to God. Thank you, Father! 01:24:09 Mitch: thankyou
We continued our discussion of “joy making mourning” from the Ladder of Divine Ascent. It is like seeing an image slowly come to a state of clarity. There is something so difficult and stinging to our sensibilities when reading this text that it is hard to allow that to happen. But this evening we began to get glimpses of the beauty that St. John is trying to place before our eyes. He wants us to see that tears came into this world as a result of sin. God has given them in order that He might cleanse and purify the heart, and that our sorrow might give way to joy and laughter. God does not ask or desire that we should mourn from sorrow of heart, but rather that out of love for Him we should rejoice with spiritual laughter. God wants to heal us and bring us to the place where sin will be abolished and pain, sorrow and sighing, will have fled away.
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00:15:03 FrDavid Abernethy: page 114 no 28 00:17:58 Ashley Kaschl: I’d say hi but my mic is being weird 😂 00:18:08 Ashley Kaschl: 😂😂 00:20:33 Rebecca Thérèse: Sorry I'm late, connectivity issues 00:31:53 Ren Witter: I am finding this just so hard. If there is a hurt or injustice, that at times brings up intense feelings of resentment, is that going to be a constant impediment to union with God for as long as the hurt lasts? I guess it just makes me feel a bit hopeless 00:40:21 Ambrose Little, OP: Interesting aside: I saw a scientific experiment recently that showed tears have different chemical compositions based on the circumstances causing them. 00:40:48 Ren Witter: Yes! I love that study 00:40:48 Bridget McGinley: Ambrose that is fascinating! 00:41:41 Ren Witter: And not only that, but they contain a natural pain relieving component particular to the cause. Its really amazing. 01:19:46 Ashley Kaschl: Do you think the grace that leads to compunction is stopped by a division in one’s heart? Like we can want to be truly contrite for sins but also have a hidden attachment to sin which allows for a tension to present itself, but maybe we think about it as frustration or failure? When in reality, it’s a matter of God’s timing? 01:22:43 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂 01:22:52 Bridget McGinley: Goodnight thank you 01:23:32 Babington (or Babi): Thank you! 01:23:39 Ashley Kaschl: Thank you, Father! Good to see you!
Tonight, in Hypothesis 32
we are, one might say, confronted with the deepest challenge. It is not unlike the challenge of Christ in the gospel. What is in our hearts shapes who we are as human beings. The externals of religion may be maintained perfectly, and give the appearance of religiosity and holiness. But in reality, our hearts may be very far from God and seeking to do His will. Our hearts may not have the purity of Christ, or what comes about by the action of His grace within us. Such a life not only diminishes monasticism as a whole, but we can easily see how this is true of Christianity and of Christians. if we call ourselves Christians and we receive all that we are given through the Church and by Christ and yet our hearts do not seek him or his will, then we are scandal and a stumbling block. A monk may be tonsured and wear the external garb, but what does this mean in reality? Would he not be the most pitiful of individuals to leave everything in the world externally, but in his heart to cling to these things?
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01:01:14 Anthony: The thorns of the world (praise, false glory, a desire for sophistication) choke out the good seeds that. sprouted. 01:08:26 Anthony: Part of the issue: show "me" a sacrifice that is worthwhile, and "I" can do it. We need to find a worthy sacrifice. 01:13:44 Anthony: And in that case, each of us can "intuit" (?) by grace what is the particular sacrifice or charism we are called? 01:13:59 Anthony: such as Francis' life being different than Basil's charism. 01:14:46 Ren Witter: Wow 01:16:14 Anthony: Thanks. I like the Our Lady of Constantinole(?) in the background.
Even in the act of mourning the loss of a loved one, our thoughts can return very quickly to the things of this world. The reality of death is something that we rarely linger long with in our thoughts and imagination even when it draws close to us.
Yet, in the writings of the fathers, it is precisely the urgency that the awareness of the brevity of our life places upon us that is so important. We must not neglect the fact that our life in this world is very short.
What is it that we spend our time on? What is the focus of our energy? Do we desire God and what He alone can fill within the human heart or are we constantly seeking the things of this world?
St. John’s writing on mourning over one’s sin is a stark reminder of who we are as human beings. We have almost an infinite capacity for self-delusion and self-deception. Even the shedding of tears can be filled with self-esteem or concern with self image more than with the sorrow over the diminishment of the relationship of love with God. Do we really love virtue and hate sin? Is there an urgent longing for God that leads to zeal in the spiritual life and prayer or do we easily slide into sloth and negligence? Do we distract ourselves with intellectual discussions about the faith and yet never practice the mourning of which St. John speaks?
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00:12:21 FrDavid Abernethy: page 122 00:18:23 Debra: Just walked in from shoveling snow! 00:18:43 FrDavid Abernethy: page 122 00:18:45 FrDavid Abernethy: 112 00:21:01 Rebecca Thérèse: jailors 00:21:23 Rebecca Thérèse: It's the British spelling 00:27:04 Anthony: There is the kind little dog mentioned in Book of Tobit! :) 00:28:05 Anthony: The theives break in to steal, but the watchdog of concentration scares them away - maybe? 00:34:25 Daniel Allen: That makes me think of the wise and foolish virgins. The foolish virgins were told to buy more oil, and they wept outside of the wedding banquet. Is John playing off of that at all, suggesting we must mourn - and so acquire more oil - before we can enter the wedding feast as the wise virgins? 00:39:38 Anthony: Father, is there a "psychological" element to help us govern these thoughts? Because, meditating on all the evil one has done - veen the littlest bit and the evil one can do can make one go almost mad. 00:49:02 carol nypaver: Amen! 00:53:47 Anthony: Like the Apostles in the Garden of Gethsemane 00:54:04 Debra: That #21 could be on a bookmark for my Breviary 00:58:49 Debra: I think Ven Fulton Sheen said, in response to 'The Mass is so long', 'It's because your love is short' 01:10:54 Anthony: adulteration? 01:10:56 Anthony: alloy? 01:16:48 Anthony: And THAT's how Nephilim could be made.... 01:22:46 Jeffrey Ott: Amen, thank you! 01:22:51 Anthony: Thank you :) 01:22:52 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂 01:22:55 Rachel: Thank you
How do we view our life in this world? Such a simple and straightforward question, and yet one that we contort ourselves so as not to have to answer directly. It can be a frightening question to answer. Who am I? Who is God? What does this mean for my life in this world?
The fathers do not present us with a path that allows us to put on airs. The Christian life, or the monastic life in particular, is not about creating a self image that is pleasing to us, or that gives us a sense of identity that we are comfortable with or that fits in neatly with our perception of reality. What the fathers present us with is an unvarnished view of the gospel, the incarnation and the cross. God entered into our world, took our flesh upon himself, lifted us out of our passions, and then ascended the cross. God did all of these things, not in order that we might receive them in a passive fashion, but that we might enter into that reality to the fullest extent. The Paschal Mystery is the Reality in which we are called to live. The ascetic life is meant to free us in such a fashion that we hold nothing back from God, that we die to self and sin, and so become willing to pour ourselves out in selfless love for God and others.
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00:15:24 Fr. Miron Jr.: nope...not allowed 00:15:46 Cindy Moran: Allegheny County Airport West Mifflin 00:34:26 Bridget McGinley: Juan Diego was 57 with no children when Our Lady appeared to him. He was not a religious just a beautiful soul doing his simple duty.... a very humble example for me. 00:38:43 Anthony: This paragraph reminds me of "Luther and Lutherdom" by Fr. Denifle. Luther took concepts like this way our of context, and with the current of depravity among religious in the late middle ages, great harm came to the Church. 00:48:00 Ren Witter: What a perfect reading immediately following the Sunday of the Holy Forefathers! 00:48:32 Anthony: St. Vincent de Paul went from galley slave to a priest preaching and living the mercy of God. 00:57:48 carol: Like a wedding ring 01:01:42 Bridget McGinley: POWERFUL BOOK! Love it. Our Lady of Silence icon is beautiful! 01:02:25 Anthony: Father, it seems there is a contradiction between these paragraphs of waiting on the Lord and the (presumably bad) example of Ioannikos' mother in section B, who was content to labor with the other women but not formally take the yoke of a nun. It looks like maybe people should have left her alone. Am I wrong here? 01:03:36 Ashley Kaschl: I was learning about Biblical Botany on Saturday from a friend and this reminds me of the study of why the fig leaf is so important in the fall of Adam and Eve. The fig leaf excretes something that is very irritating to human skin. So, in their haste to remedy their shame, and to hide what they’d done, to solve their own problem, they actually made it worse and caused themselves pain. And this God gave them animal skins to wear. 01:06:34 Anthony: sorry...Alypios' mother 01:08:31 Ashley Kaschl: I had also not heard this before 😂😂 01:12:17 Ashley Kaschl: Sorry I have to run. Gotta get to Mass 🙏 thanks for tonight, Father! 01:16:22 Bridget McGinley: Thank you Father 01:16:47 Babington (or Babi): Thnx!
The more deeply one reads the fathers, the more one begins to see that what is being revealed is the terrain of the human heart. The fathers do not present us with a varnished truth about ourselves or our sin. The path that leads to freedom and holiness is Christ alone. It is by his grace and mercy that we are brought healing and hope. So much of the spiritual life involves letting go of the illusions that we cling to about ourselves and life in this world. It involves slowly breaking down those defenses that, while fulfilling their purpose, are too costly. They prevent us from seeking healing where it can truly be found. We are called to more than just cope with reality. We are called to enter into He who is Reality and allow Him to heal us and transfigure us by His grace. This brings us to a state of deep mourning. We gaze into the abyss, the hell that is sin. Yet while painful, St John begins to explain, it gives place to incorruptible chastity and the warmth of the “immaterial Light that radiates more than fire!”
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00:16:42 CMoran: My family in Slovakia make it...you can run your lawnmower on their stuff. 00:25:56 Anthony: Father, would you please distinguish these tears from the tears of sin born of scrupulous fear? 00:30:50 Eric Ewanco: www.scrupulousanonymous.org 00:31:44 Anthony: Thank you, Father, that is a good way to distinguish the two fears. 00:33:47 CMoran: Would St Philip Neri be a good example of this? 00:36:15 Bridget McGinley: I heard that Solzhenitsyn in The Gulag Archipelago stated that those with a sense of humor had a greater constitution to bear the trials. I have not read this book but it struck me because I have read Fr. Walter Ciszek with God in Russia and I cannot imagine the sorrows. 00:40:16 Anthony: I guess St. Francis had this blessed, gladdening sorrow. His fear or sorrow alternated with bliss, but although he was lighthearted, he was solid in God's reality. 00:43:41 Daniel Allen: Maybe it’s how it’s worded but how does fear of an “uncompassionate and inexorable judge” give way to love for that same uncompassionate judge? 00:45:22 carol: “Sadness purifies us. Man is truly man in sadness. In joy he is changed, he becomes someone else. In sadness he becomes that which he truly is. And this is the way, par excellence, that he approaches God…” Elder Epiphanios 00:50:28 Rachel: St Silouan 00:51:20 Rachel: This is what Christ told him when he had fallen into pride and was allowed to see his state. 00:54:51 Anthony: When I started finding catechetical materials to take in, I came across a popular internet Orthodox radio station. One of the things they seemed to emphasize is that it is wrong to meditate on the passion of Christ - which is quite sad as well as triumphant. It looks like that is incorrect and not the true way to orient our minds, but we should meditate on this? 00:59:35 Rebecca Thérèse: I find the poem Pastorcico (the little shepherd) by St John of the Cross very helpful in meditating on the Passion because it emphasises Christ's love in giving himself on the Cross for us. So to meditate on the Passion is to meditate on the great love of Christ for us. 01:01:33 Ambrose Little, OP: Perhaps there is something in this related to the notion of the love of the Law, that it is through the Law (and its judgment, as so, the Judge) that we see what is evil, truly repugnant to Life and Love (that is, the nature of God). And seeing that stark God-repelling reality allows us to more clearly see, by contrast, the Goodness and Love of God, and to desire Him all the more because of that seeing. The fear of God is the fear of sin and its consequences—the beginning of wisdom. Seeing what God hates and judges harshly against reveals to us the love of God, because He hates what harms us, what pulls us away from Him.
Tonight as a group we read hypothesis 30. It was a striking and detailed description of the nature of the spiritual battlefield, the demons powers (both their ferocity and their limitations), and how we must engage them. First and foremost, we must always understand the God in his providence guides and protects us. He never lets us be afflicted in the spiritual battle by more than what his grace provides to conquer. This still requires, however, that in our freedom we take hold of the precious grace that he has given to us.
One of the things that we are warned against is laziness. We must not take the grace of God for granted, or receive it in vain. In the spiritual battle, we must not think that having overcome one demon that we are now impervious. There is a demon for every kind of passion that we struggle with and every circumstance. If we overcome one demon, we should only expect that one more fierce will come upon us. We must then be ever vigilant; always training ourselves to set aside our own will to embrace the will of God. We have a tendency to constantly be on the lookout for ways to make our life easier. This includes the spiritual life. The whole focus of it can shift to ourselves rather than to God. We must fight our tendency to reduce the struggle that we engage in on a daily basis. We must see ourselves as always exercising our faith, and the grace of God has provided us in order that we might be ever more faithful to his will.
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00:14:09 FrDavid Abernethy: Hypothesis XXX 00:26:35 Anthony: We are like clams, demons are like starfish. We've got to struggle to keep the shields closed to their devouring stomachs. 00:31:04 carol: And obedience 00:59:08 Eric Ewanco: “If your enemy is hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he is thirsty, give him water to drink; for you will heap coals of fire on his head, and the LORD will reward you.” (Proverbs 25:21–22, RSV2CE) 00:59:43 sue and mark: I always thought the enemies were my own sins 01:07:55 Rachel: Servant of God Fr. Willie Doyle used this very saying to help him keep going when faced with temptations against his many mortifications. 01:12:41 Rachel: Yes, it has! 01:13:36 Rachel: Like the Evergetinos, Fr. Willie Doyle's book can be jarring 01:13:54 Jack: Christmas gift for men 01:18:22 Rachel: Waale!! 01:18:23 Anthony: Wall E 01:18:27 Rachel: Wall e 01:20:11 Rachel: Thank you 01:20:23 sue and mark: good night and God Bless all 01:20:24 Sheila Applegate: Feel better!
To read Saint John and the other fathers, and to read their writings deeply is to find oneself caught up in wonder. We begin to see that so much of the spiritual life, its discipline, and the hardships the fathers endured, are a reflection of their desire.
These were men that were filled with a holy longing for what Christ alone could satisfy. They ran with a kind of swiftness and sought to unburden themselves from anything that would be an impediment or weigh them down and prevent them from entering into the fullness of the life and love of Christ. The remembrance of death and mourning over one’s sins are not practices that are abstracted from our relationship with Christ and the love that has been revealed to us in Him. All of these things spur us on to enter into His embrace, and never leave it.
If the Christian life and the ascetic life is seen outside of this relationship then, as Saint Paul tells us, we are the most pitiable of all men. God has created us for Himself and in so doing has created a hunger that He alone can satisfy. We have been made for love and our hearts will find no rest until they find the One for whom they long.
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00:26:26 Anthony: I believe I read part of St. Thomas More's meditation on death (he being quite Western), that the pain of the soul leaving the body, is quite real, and a necessary evil. 00:27:00 Anthony: I was just affirming what you wrote, that's all. :) 00:35:34 Anthony: You said we magnify the importance of things out of proportion to their value - this is fearing things temporal, but not having fear of the Lord, isn't it? 00:42:51 Sheila Applegate: As much as I know in my heart God fulfills and heals and is all, sometimes.God feels empty and disconnected and lacking and the things here feel fulfilling or at least tangible and in that, familiar and comforting. So therein lies a temporal conflict of interest. 00:49:48 Sheila Applegate: Yeah. That makes sense. 00:49:58 Sheila Applegate: We grasp at the concrete. 00:59:59 Anthony: TO combine a martial arts analogy with the Crucifixion - this fear is like throwing the enemy off balance. Christ was the bait swallowed by death willingly, so that He could catch death and defeat it. We follow His example, and take hold of this enemy so that we can in His grace and example direct death to our benefit> 01:15:31 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Lord, give us Your Love to love you with! 01:16:26 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂 01:16:27 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you!! Happy Thanksgiving! 01:16:28 Deiren Masterson: God bless father - all. Thank you 01:16:29 Rachel: Thank you
This evening we concluded Hypothesis 29. We heard from one father after another of the importance of having a spirit of gratitude in our lives. We are to enter into the spiritual battle, expecting affliction, temptation and hardship. Furthermore, we are to see these things as coming to us through the providence of God.
Is it not this that we are often tempted to reject? We question: “Does God really ask this of us? Is he truly present to us or has he abandon us by allowing us to experience such great crosses in our lives?” The resounding answer to all these questions from the fathers is that God permeates these crosses, knows how they will they will affect and afflict us and how his grace will also perfect the virtue within us if we hope in Him. We often fail to see how deeply the “prosperity” gospel has permeated our minds and our hearts. So often we think faith in God should bring us certain blessings in this world. Even if this is not consciously on our minds, it is often what we desire; that God would bless our lives, our work and our relationships. It is tantamount to what Karl Barth called “practical atheism.” We believe in our minds, but in our daily actions towards others, and in our unwillingness to embrace our cross, we show that we lack the faith and the resolve of the Saints.
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00:31:01 Ambrose Little, OP: Can’t recall if we’ve covered this before, but most of the strivings of the monks in these writings seem to be doing so on behalf of themselves, at least there is little note made of intercessory prayer. But I think I recall that a key aspect of Western monasticism, especially cloistered, is that they are ever interceding for the world and the Church. Is this an accurate impression and, if so, why do you think they don’t make as much of it in the desert monastic spirituality? It’s almost like (as in this reading), they more or less just consign the world and worldly to hell if they’re not entering into monasticism or the hermit life. 00:34:11 Anthony: If Macchiavelli, Sun Tzu and Von Clausewitz have numerous strategies to take over an enemy, demons would have many more insofar as they were present when we were created and are by nature more "intellectual" than us. So maybe they can perceive more than us and try to anticipate our future victories and sabotage them before we have an inkling that we can be the victors. 00:35:38 Jack: Thats what I understand “psychics" to be 00:36:05 Jack: communicating with fallen spirits 00:37:13 Anthony: medium 00:43:22 Ambrose Little, OP: What does it mean “never satisfied his own will” there? 00:46:07 carol: Even with psychological strain its easy to turn to self focus 00:51:13 Anthony: Thus the children of Israel when leaving Egypt were not led out to the land of the Philistines, lest they be discouraged by those strong people. 00:53:02 Anthony: and listening to the counsel develops virtue of obedience 01:03:51 Anthony: There is something in Revelation that cowards can't enter Heaven. God is giving us the practice we need against cowardice. and Pope St Peter has something about the trying of our faith working patience, etc.
We take a step now with Saint John that one likely would not consider as essential - The Remembrance of death. John begins by makes some important distinctions for us. There is a fear of death that is rooted in its very nature; the loss of life and the end of life as we know it because of the Fall. There is also a kind of terror of death that is rooted in unrepented sins. Focus upon God and his love, a repentant spirit, drives out fear from the human heart. At one point John describes it as a “fearless fear”. We acknowledge our own mortality, the brevity of this life, the weight and significance of our actions; however, in light of our relationship with Christ and the conquering of death through the resurrection, the mindfulness of death is something that always leads to hope. Our mindfulness of our mortality sharpens our focus upon what has value and weight. The deeper and more perfect faith becomes, the more we are going to long to be with Christ in such a way that knows of no impediment and no limitation. Of course there are going to be those who are incorrigible; those so deeply rooted in the things of this world and the pursuit of satisfying their own desires, that the notion of remembering death seems cruel to them or meaningless. For Christians, however, it becomes the path to virtue and once we have tasted it, experienced the disciplines that surround the remembrance of death, then our hearts begin to be filled with joy. Ultimately this is where John is leading us; from the sorrow and mourning of our sin to the fruit of repentance - joy!
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00:26:57 FrDavid Abernethy: page 107 00:36:07 Anthony: So the remembrance of death is an antidote to avarice: Lust of flesh, lust of eyes, pride of life? 00:50:40 Anthony: Is fear sometimes from an overexaggerated sense of duty? 01:12:35 Bridget McGinley: I once was advised to fast from speech..... it transformed my spiritual life. Fasting can be in various forms I suppose. 01:14:24 Anthony: I at times read about a Russian Martial Art called "Systema." It incorporates ascetic practice and Russian Orthodox faith into its mindset and training; and the persons who testify to it say their experience is life changing; instructors claim to have many godchildren around the world because their came to appreciate Orthodoxy through living this ascetic and self-aware. martial art. 01:23:33 Rebecca Thérèse: Fasting also has many physical health benefits 01:24:14 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:25:15 Rafael Patrignani: thank You father
It has always been difficult for men to allow God to lead them in accord with His wisdom. There is always a part of us that wants to embrace what fits in with our judgment and view of things rather than allowing God to reveal - that is, to draw back the veil - in order that we might see the deeper truth. This is especially true when it means being drawn into the Paschal Mystery; the dying and rising of Christ and also our participation in that dying and rising. What does this mean for us, what does it mean to be faced with the abyss of sin and its darkness and to experience this darkness within our hearts? What does it mean to walk in hope even though we cannot see what lies ahead, when no light penetrates the darkness. St. John invites us to make that journey. The spiritual life takes place in the context of this tremendous mystery. It is not going to be comfortable and we will often
want to look away or rationalize why this mystery cannot or does not touch our lives. It becomes very difficult for us to trust in the mercy of God when He invites us so deeply into the mystery of our own redemption. We would still have it our own way. The path of humility and obedient love, especially as we see it manifest on the cross is always going to be a test to our faith and our desire for God.
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00:13:45 Cindy Moran: I am changing my name to Cindy Fitznstartz. 00:14:44 Mark Cummings: 😂 00:14:44 Cindy Moran: This was from something you said in your session on Monday. 00:35:24 Cindy Moran: Were the men in the "Prison" still under any obligation to recite the Psalms or something of the like? 00:52:25 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: 2 Peter 2:22 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than to have known it and then to turn away from the holy commandment passed on to them. 22Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.” Berean Standard Bible · Download Cross References Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his folly. John 10:6 Jesus spoke to them using this illustration, but they did not understand what He was telling them. Treasury of Scripture But it is happened to them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire. The dog. Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly. 2 Peter 2:22 " The dog returns to its own vomit and the sow afer washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.. 00:53:07 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: sorry I was thinking about this passage and by accident sent it too quickly 00:57:19 Robert Anderson: that others may be holier than me...powerful 00:59:35 Robert Anderson: the only thing I can take credit for is my sins 00:59:59 Eric Ewanco: 👍🏻 01:01:01 Anthony: The prayers attributed to St. Basil in the Publican's Prayer Book are examples of deep self-knowledge and poverty. They inspire me in self--knowledge and contrition. 01:07:27 Ambrose Little, OP: Aside: Origen was no atheist. ;) 01:10:12 Daniel Allen: There is an amazing book called Laurus. It’s a recent novel, but it may flesh out the concept of the prison in a detailed way 01:20:20 Anthony: The more deeply and purely one loves, the more grieved one is by evil towards the lover - and horrified when _we did the evil against the Pure Beloved._ 01:27:26 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂 01:27:41 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father
It’s hard to imagine the depths of the beauty of the fathers’ insights into the nature of spiritual warfare. Having read the writings of the fathers throughout the years, it’s not an easy thing to say that that Hypotheses 28 and 29 are the finest description I’ve ever read not only on the nature of asceticism but of spiritual warfare. The compiler of The Evergetinos draws together the wisdom of the fathers in such a way that it paints an image of such detail that it creates a visceral experience and compels one to do some soul-searching. Are we engaged in the spiritual battle and aware of its nature? Do we understand the nature of the enemy that we war against and his tactics? Do we understand that there is no neutral territory in this world in regards to the spiritual life? The enemy is a tyrant and those who give themselves over to him freely will find them selves under his control. “From among men who have been taken captive by barbarians and are under the thumb of a tyrant, all those who rejoice at the successes of the enemy by whom they have been captured gladly remain close to the foe, without fetters and confinement, and struggle for the victory of the enemy, and, in fact, are used as spies, to the detriment of their compatriots.” All those who wish to be free from bitter slavery to the enemy must undertake open warfare against him. It is necessary for strugglers to call on the aid of God unceasingly. He is not only our ally but our only hope in the battle. It is by His Grace and strength that we can conquer the persistent and merciless enemy.
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00:18:53 FrDavid Abernethy: page 243 00:23:21 Bridget: Acedia. I am infected with it these days! 00:28:22 Anthony: Why can't we just decide not to let it bother us? why does it cling? 00:30:03 Carol Nypaver: Page? 00:30:28 Carol Nypaver: ty 00:58:48 Anthony: A note on culture for Part G, paragraph 4. Rusks (in Italian cooking) are twice-baked circular loaves of bread. They can be stored for several months. To eat, first moisten under water, then top with a spread or cold cuts. I love them with an eggplant and olive mixture spread (like eggplant caponata) on top. 01:00:08 Eric Ewanco: I need those 01:20:15 Anthony: I think the concept of spiritual warfare highlights the difference between monergism (that all of salvation is God's work and we contribute nothing) and synergy (that we are required to work with God's work in our salvation). At least, that is my experience having been in a monergist tradition and talking with friends still in that tradition; and that monergism formed our American culture. It's like the way of thinking about God neutralizes the believer in that tradition against the thought of considering spiritual warfare. It is in a way very hard to be Catholic. 01:27:09 Rachel Pineda: But Climacus and Saint Issac etc are saying the same thing! 01:28:04 Rachel Pineda: Thank you
As a group we read through Saint John’s description of the “Prison”, that place of deep repentance freely entered and embraced by those who had broken their vows and sinned against God.
John holds the image of this place before our eyes in order that it might act as a mirror. Listening to the description and envisioning it within our minds, we are to ask ourselves: Do we see the same kind of sorrow over sin and infidelity in the face of Love? Do we see anything within us of the zeal that these men have for the Lord? Having fallen into the pit of iniquity are we equally willing to sink into the abyss of the humility of the repentant?
We seem perfectly willing to bear the indignity of sin and its tyranny even though we understand that Christ took our flesh upon Himself, made Himself to be sin in order that He might also take upon Himself the consequence of that sin which is death. What is our awareness of that reality and faith revealed to us? Does it pierce the heart? Do we bewail the loss of virtues as if they were children that have died? Do we cry out, where is my purity of prayer? Where is my former boldness? Where the sweet tears instead of the bitter? Where is the hope of perfect chastity and perfect purification? Where is my faith in the shepherd?
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00:17:46 Anthony: "Blessed are those who mourn for they shall be comforted." 00:25:40 Anthony: Perhaps this mourning is actually the goal of even modern day sentences for fallen religious to retire to a monastery and do penance for great sins? This sounds like it is for the most serious of sins. 00:32:12 Daniel Allen: This oddly makes me think of Mary holding Jesus when he was taken from the cross. Her Son, all her joy and blessing, now lifeless and in her hands but not there. But awaiting the resurrection 00:39:21 Carol: It reminds me of the Song of Songs, chasing after the Beloved. 00:45:14 Rachel: you touched upon something that I was wondering about. How at the core of a lack of a desire to make reparation to live a penitential life in the acknowledgment of what sin does to us, is a lack of faith in the goodness of God. 00:54:42 Ren: The thought that is coming most to mind, for me, in reading this step is: do I take my sin seriously? Do I really accept the truth about what sin does, and what its “wages” are? - death. That death reenters the world within me with each sin. Or do I take the crucifixion for granted? So far removed from it as a historical event that I am comfortable with what has been done for me? Sadly, I realize that I really do hold sin lightly. 01:00:18 Anthony: The movie "The Professor and the Madman" illustrates this kind of lifelong mourning for a deed - even an evil deed that might not have been done by a madman. 01:00:35 Ashley Kaschl: Love that movie. So true. 01:00:39 Anthony: *might _have_ been done by a madman 01:05:21 Rachel: I want to add to what Ren was touching upon. Many people are uncomfortable with shame, I am speaking of a healthy shame that is the result of real sin. How one can be discouraged by others who are uncomfortable with really entering in to the suffering of another and what bigger suffering is there than sin and its consequences? This is why God became man. 01:08:58 Ashley Kaschl: A priest once helped someone I know to understand penance as a daily thing, not just something you do after confession, especially when he gave that someone a lifelong penance for a sin not connected to murder or something horrifically physical but for a spiritual sin. This priest did not do so as a punishment, and it was in the bounds of not being an unjust burden upon the person, but because the person had been approaching a sin against the Holy Spirit (despair of God’s mercy). So the balm, according to this confession, was a life-long, daily prayer as a penance so that the soul would not be confounded by this temptation. Obviously, this is not the norm these days, but I have met a few people who have such penances, who aren’t murderers or rapists or thieves, etc. But I think it is interesting to ponder. 01:15:11 Babington (or Babi): Thank you. 🙏🏼💔🙏🏼✝️ 01:15:28 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂 01:15:37 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father.
Once again we are presented with the fathers’ writing on asceticism. This evening we were given the essentials, the starting point for the pursuit of the spiritual life; fasting and vigils. We are told that without these practices we enter into the spiritual battle unarmed and no virtue will be gained. We fail to imitate Christ who, before taking up his public ministry, fasted and prayed in the desert for 40 days; precisely to show us what is necessary in the battle against the Enemy who tempted Him at the end of His fasting period. We may feel humiliated and weakened in body but on a spiritual level we come to know the strength and the virtue of Christ himself. Fasting from food and sleep reveals our basic desire for God and an acknowledgment that strength and grace come from Him alone. In all of this we have to have bravery and show great resolve and willingness to continue patiently in doing what is good, ever calling upon God to help and defend us. When we fail, we should not be indifferent or despair or abandon the attempt. Rather, we should increase our zeal and look to the instructions and guidance of the expert; first and foremost Christ himself and then all of the saints throughout the centuries who have conformed themselves to Him.
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00:34:29 Ren: I must say that, for myself, and though I do not have the opportunity for it anymore, that I have never felt more joy or peace or intimacy in prayer than that which I experienced in vigil adoration. Being someone who struggles with moderation in sleep, its hard to accept, but my own experience has confirmed what the Fathers say so many times over. It really does feel like a whole different kind of prayer. Something about the deep silence and stillness of the night bring us so close to God. 00:39:34 Ambrose Little, OP: It seems like it doesn’t have to be severe, to the point of being unhealthy, but more like discipline in the sense of exercise—limiting within reason, unless we feel God is calling us to do more at times. Like you (Father) have suggested—getting up in early morning for a time of prayer. On the other hand, for many, in our day at least, we fail on the other side of it—often not getting enough sleep because of lack of discipline in favor of entertainment (for example). In that case, the better exercise might first be to be more disciplined about getting an appropriate amount of sleep, which may better set us up for success in regular prayer as well. 00:40:32 Ren: Oof. So true Ambrose. I’m sleep deprived half the time….and its not because of prayer. More like Frasier, or the Office. 00:41:04 Carol Nypaver: That’s an excellent point! And—one I can relate to.😳 00:42:26 Anthony: Our modern theory of work is a Puritan tyranny. We can't take it, it's "dominion" over this world outside of the natural and normal human rhythm. 00:49:31 Anthony: The only way Jesus could have done this (in my opinion) is out of love. Love is the most powerful reason to put aside even unselfish weakness and even the use of reason "if I don't satisfy myself, I'll go nuts or die." 00:57:34 Anthony: This reminds me of the patristic idea that Jesus was acting as bait, which the devil thought was easy prey. But the devil was tricked and defeated. In imitation of Christ, then, we weaken ourselves and -only if? - we are united to the Vine, God desires us to be weakened and thus be a trap in the imitation of Christ. "My strength is made perfect in weakness." 00:57:51 Anthony: And - is that feeling of being overwhelmed by vile thoughts a sin? 01:06:32 Rachel: If you were going to die tomorrow most would love fasting 01:14:28 Rachel: That is interesting. it reminds me of the saying that he who prays truly is a theologian. If one wishes to truly pray they must do the will of God. The simple thing like ordering all of ones life, everything, to the will of God. Rising, sleeping, eating, praying and everything in between. Why try to control ones thoughts if we cannot control our bellies or lose a little sleep? I am not saying to give up vigilance but to add to it the weapons the holy fathers are speaking of with patience and trust in His providence. A little grandmother hidden away can truly become a theologian this way 01:20:15 Anthony: The Christmas fast has different lengths. I find the Slavic St. Philip's Fast good but awkward in the Roman Calendar. Adding fasting to advent or practicing the shorter Melkite Fast could work, too. 01:21:45 Rachel: Wait, has anyones halloween candy ever lasted until Christmas?? 01:23:37 Louis: Thank you Fr.! 01:23:52 Rachel: Thank you! 01:23:54 Babington (or Babi): Thank you
Thank you to everyone who participated tonight in a very challenging reading and discussion of The Ladder of Divine Ascent.
Synopsis:
Tonight we began Step Five on painstaking repentance and an account of the Prison, another monastic community for those who have broken their vows and embraced a life of deep penance. This is probably the most difficult part of The Ladder to read. It requires the most work from us as readers to think about what John is doing. Why does he present us with such an image? Why paint a portrait of such a place of pain and affliction? Does he not risk losing readers because of the story? What is described is disturbing and meant to be so. For seeing what is so disturbing, our willingness to look at it and the unvarnished truth it present us with, also allows us to grasp its opposite – the invincible joy of knowing and loving Christ. Indeed, the sorrow is part of the joy.
We can only begin to understand St. John’s description of repentance and “the Prison” in light of the Cross itself. We see Christ take upon himself the sin of the world and what it cost him and how he sweat blood in the garden of Gethsemane. These men of the Prison, that place of deep penance, entered into the Paschal mystery so deeply and could see the beauty of it so fully that their mourning and sorrow was a participation in the sorrows of the cross. And the desolation that they experienced was that of Christ himself calling out “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me.” We tend to think of things in isolation and our own experiences in isolation from others and from those of Christ. But what we have seen with the fathers over and over again is this kind of radical solidarity that exists between us and that allows us to participate in the redemptive aspects of Christ’s work including the sorrows and darkness of the Cross and the descent into Hell.
“I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.” Galatians 2:20.
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00:12:41 FrDavid Abernethy: Beginning Step 5 on page 97 00:33:32 Eric Ewanco: I've heard it said that the first sin involved eating which is why fasting is so important 00:47:59 Ashley Kaschl: In paragraph 7, that seems like a debilitating shame, how would one break free from that? 00:52:13 Cathy Murphy: The last sentence in paragraph 7 is challenging. If they are full of sorrow and repentant how are their souls offering nothing to God? 00:58:13 Ambrose Little, OP: I find it difficult to reconcile what appears to be dwelling in sorrow with confidence in God’s work in our lives and the lives of others. If the promises are true, then it seems like we should mostly dwell in joy and gratitude as penitents. 01:17:33 Mary M: I might be off because I missed the reading itself, but it seems like one of those Catholic principles held in tension together, where it's "both and" rather than "either or." It's neither despair over the depth of the gravity of sin nor presumption on the mercy of God, but simultaneously the deepest sorrow and joy in light of the reality of our sin and God's mercy. 01:25:26 Ambrose Little, OP: Seeing it as a mirror of the effects of sin (a kind of picture of hell) is helpful to me. 01:34:11 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂 01:34:12 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you so much! Great to be with you all.
We began hypothesis 28 this evening. I have to say that it is one of the clearest and most straightforward explanations and discussion of the ascetical life. What comes forward through the fathers’ teaching is not only the necessity of asceticism, of striving for God and for the life of virtue, but also the beauty that one begins to see and the sweetness of the life of virtue that one begins to taste. The ascetic life is indeed filled with toil and sweat. However, it is not simply a test of endurance. The Christian has set before his eyes the Beloved and the promises He holds out before us of intimacy with Him and the experience of the joy of the kingdom.
There are so many things that create a resistance within us to this kind of striving. Laziness and negligence can easily take over when that desire for God grows cold and when our hearts become indifferent to the blessings that He offers us as well as the consolation that comes from fidelity to His commandments. We must, the fathers tell us, have a good beginning. In fact, Abba Isaac tells us if we want to begin a Godly work, we must first give a promise to God that we will not live for the present life and that we will be prepared to die rather than sacrifice what is pleasing to Him. Hope for the present life ennervates the mind and does not allow us to make any progress. We must be clear in our purpose. The love of Christ must compel us.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:19:10 Anthony: EXACTLY: We need a vision to love to make this irksome asceticism worthwhile.
00:23:58 Carol Nypaver: St. Josemaria Escriva called it “the heroic minute” when the alarm goes off in the morning.
00:29:37 Anthony: Is there some kind of hoe or spade available to cut thorns out without cutting our hands?
00:31:56 Lee Graham: In Therapy, ice water is used to help people stop cutting. They are told that whenever they get the urge to cut, to place their arm in ice water.
00:33:34 Lee Graham: Releases endorphins as does the cutting
00:42:07 Anthony: That is a Stoic understanding of asceticism. They have nothing to love. And with our formerly Catholic culture stripped of beauty to become a Puritan existence, our positive asceticism for the beatific vision becomes mere endurance
00:57:00 Carol Nypaver: Please explain “casting oneself into the sea of afflictions.” Seeking out afflictions?
01:07:55 Denise T. : As a mom of many children how do I maintain an indifference to all earthly things? What does that look like? I have a hard time with that concept.
01:09:33 Ashley Kaschl: Anecdotally, the parts of this concerning toiling and knowing without praxis, has me thinking about a period of aridity I was experiencing some time ago. Adoration is usually where I spend my time when this happens and I was so tired when I finally managed to get there one day that I assumed a position that I knew I could remain reverent in for a long time without growing weary of it, where I could remain still and quiet because interiorly I was anything but.
I asked the Lord why it was so hard to pray, why it was so hard hear Him, and why I was so restless all the time. And after a while, the answer came very clearly, accompanied by all the extra things I had taken on because of my restlessness and because of my lack of trust in Him, and He reminded me that, “I am a jealous God.” I think I’m very prone to forgetting this, that when the Lord has invited one along the narrow path, we are not supposed to pick up extra burdens, tasks, or to take up other paths when there is a storm when in reality the Lord
01:10:42 Ashley Kaschl: is only asking me to take shelter and not to deviate.
01:11:35 Ambrose Little, OP: @Denise, with regards to your comment above, I tend to think that part of our service to and love of God in this life, as parents, is to love our children--to seek their good selflessly. To use the things of this world in service of others, we can be personally indifferent while understanding how they are means to express that love.
01:15:18 Denise T. : Thank you, Father. That is helpful to me.
We are called to be conformed to Christ. How easy it is to say such a thing. Yet, so often, our understanding of faith, obedience, humility, and charity is defined within the narrow limits of human reason and understanding. We grow very uncomfortable with what is undefined or what lacks boundaries. Allowing our souls to be stretched by faith, to be drawn along by wonder and led by the Spirit can feel terrifyingly vulnerable. The ego is most often the center of our existence. To let go of the false-self and to seek one’s identity and dignity in Christ is challenging to say the least. In fact, only God can bring us to such a place. Our striving, our ascetical life, our responsiveness to the grace of God is important. Yet in the end it is God alone who can purify the heart and who can open our eyes through the gift of faith to see the beauty of self-sacrificing love and obedience.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:10:26 FrDavid Abernethy: page 95 para 114 00:26:40 Ashley Kaschl: Was just about to say…Reminds me of how Christ was silent before His accusers during the Passion 00:28:23 Cindy Moran: This over-sensitivity is called taking umbrage. 00:31:55 Ren: (Concerning paragraph 116). Something that is coming to mind is that, in doing this, I could easily see a danger of becoming resentful for silently accepting abuse, and then following it with an apology - and one that might not be all that sincere. How would we do this, without allowing a spirit of anger to take root? 00:33:10 Anthony: Gluttony had an extra connotation at the time, since food and wine or beer was more scarce, took more work, was more tied to the seasons and was therefore more precious, and eating too much is a wound on other people who by right had a share in the common food. It's not like John could drive over to the Kroger and buy Boars Head cold cuts at will if someone ate too much. 00:43:14 Daniel Allen: I think resentment also comes when one thinks one is unjustly accused or put down, when in reality what tends to confront us is more true (in one way or another) than we want to admit. And when it may not be a fair accusation on the surface, in one way or another it is likely true. When we realize our own sin put to death God Himself, what accusation could be false? How could distinction still matter. And when it’s still difficult then what St. Philip Neri said can always apply, there except for the grace of God go I? Remembering one’s own sinfulness makes this easy. Forgetting it makes it excruciating to bear. 00:50:02 Rachel: yep 00:50:40 Johnny Ross: The gap between ought and is represents a fundamental dichotomy in our identity. Isn't unity the ultimate trajectory of our walk in Christ. Individual unity, unity with the Church and, ultimately, Unity with God. 00:53:00 Rachel: You touched upon something I have been wondering about and that is how we find the ego everywhere. Where one has to really discern how one or, why, what motivates one to follow Christ. If at all! 00:53:35 Rachel: And I think this is where patience comes in to support one in the spiritual life 00:54:11 iPhone: I heard a sermon on Sunday in which the priest told about his struggle w/ anger & his spiritual director encouraged him to continue in his prayer over time…suggesting to him that he was lacking courage when he wished to give up the struggle. The struggle took a full year — patience & courage. 00:54:23 Rachel: We must patiently, with love wait for Christ to reveal himself to us, in a way that He chooses to reveal Himseld. 00:57:31 Rachel: lol 01:17:27 Ashley Kaschl: My app updated and I don’t know how to raise my hand so sorry this is past time 😂 01:17:30 Ashley Kaschl: The end of Gaudium et Spes paragraph 24 comes to mind when I think of what we’ve talked about in regards to obedience and conforming oneself to Christ, that “man cannot find himself except through a sincere gift of self.” And I think it takes an extreme amount of grace and trust to get to a place of vulnerable docility to the Holy Spirit. Vulnerability, I think, has the root of Vulnera, which means “being open to a wounding” and it makes sense that this would be required if every soul who wishes to be a saint. 01:18:29 Art: Gotta run. Thank you and good night all. 01:20:30 Rachel: When the illusions are stripped away there is nothing but our Lord to cling but they cant pull themselves up and they linger on the brink of madness or what looks like madness from love. 01:20:59 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: I can only agree after living over 50 years in and under obedience. It is costly to one's ego in a healing way if one cooperates, dies to self-will. And it is such a protection for one's life - it's often kept me out of trouble! 01:21:24 Rachel: Thank you Sister! 01:22:26 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you!! Always a joy to be with y'all. 01:22:29 Rachel: Thank you 01:22:31 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 01:22:38 Rebecca Thérèse: 🙂 01:22:43 Cindy Moran: Thank you Fr Abernethy!
Great group tonight folks and wonderful comments!
Synopsis:
The gentleness of God, the subtle workings of the Holy Spirit, the influence of the angels in our lives and the importance of gratitude - all of these things come forward in hypothesis 27 to strengthen us in the spiritual battle and to illuminate the path ahead. Life so often weighs us down. We feel the burden of ourselves most keenly and we can become jaded in the way that we view life, the world and God. Despite God making Himself a slave, a servant in order to lift us up out of our sin, despite his giving Himself to us, filling us with his life in love in the Eucharist and by the gift of the Spirit - we can become weary of life and weaken in terms of our capacity to hold on and hope.
In our own lives we must strive to understand that God is always working and active through His spirit of love. Despite the darkness that we struggle with and sometimes our lack of faith God never abandons us for a moment. From our perspective we must also understand that He never abandons others even when we see them falling into great darkness. God can choose individuals as vessels of election and through them He can do wonderful things. Our own incapacity to see clearly often makes us project onto God that same inability.
Finally, we have a responsibility to each other. We must allow ourselves to enter into the sufferings of others, to see the darkness that they struggle with and be willing to take them by the hand and to remain with them even when they find the presence of others agitating and unwanted. For this is the love of Christ.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:10:36 David Fraley: Hello Father. I’m sorry I haven’t been around. I got a new job and I work most evenings. I’ve been following through the podcast. 00:10:51 FrDavid Abernethy: page 229 Hypothesis XXVII 00:11:03 FrDavid Abernethy: Welcome back Dave 00:11:18 FrDavid Abernethy: no worries. always glad to have you join us 00:19:28 Cindy Moran: Awww...you won't have any mice! 00:20:42 Debra: A kitty would be easier to have than a Great Pyrenees lol 00:23:26 Anthony: This account of Makarios sounds like the Russian Orthodox film "Ostrov" (Island). 00:24:48 carolnypaver: I thought of that also, Anthony. Except that he didn’t actually kill his captain in The Island. 00:27:42 Eric Ewanco: "Oh happy fault" 00:41:33 Rachel: Like becoming drunk with consolations. Being suddenly overcome by Love. 00:46:23 Anthony: This love borne of gratitude seems to me a lot better motivation to serve God than another alternative I heard, that the better you serve God, the higher the place in Heaven you get. 00:48:31 Lee Graham: The riches and pleasures of this world distract us from working in the fields of God. The harvest is plenty but the workers are few. 00:51:41 Lee Graham: He chooses to be magnanimous to everyone!
The unvarnished truth is not easy to hear or see. This is especially true when it reveals that which is within our own heart or what is lacking in our love or our faith.
Saint John Climacus gives us many stories from the lives of monks who live obedience to the point where it surpasses reason and right judgment; or when it seems to reach the point of absurdity. And indeed this is how the world sees Christianity and in its truest form; as foolishness and a stumbling block. In so many ways we have domesticated the gospel and the Christian life. What we bear witness to is the love of the kingdom made manifest in Christ and the cross.
We let go of self-will and self-identity in order to put on the true self that is found only in Christ. We are sons and daughters of God and our identity is to be shaped by this reality. All that we do must begin and end with God otherwise it is vanity. When reading the fathers we are compelled to ask ourselves, “Who am I?“Who is Christ to me?”
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Text of chat during the group:
00:15:07 FrDavid Abernethy: page 92 para 110 00:16:56 Bonnie Lewis: Do tell. 00:17:45 Bonnie Lewis: your room is looking nice 00:18:33 Eric Ewanco: you do have a euphonious voice 00:25:08 Br Theophan the non-recluse: What page #? I was totally spaced out when Fr David announced it😀 00:27:18 Bonnie Lewis: 92, para 110 00:28:02 Br Theophan the non-recluse: Thanks! 00:32:59 Anthony: Trisagion Films had one film - I think it was about St. Joseph the Heychast - who was impelled to leave an unkind elder, after enduring for a while. 00:35:39 Rachel: I am amazed about how Acacius doesnt draw attention to his suffering but simply states what has happened when asked. It is a clear example of how obedience leads to humility 00:37:21 Eric Ewanco: mine says "fool" instead of "blockhead" 00:38:40 Carol Nypaver: Ours is the Charlie Brown translation.🤣 00:38:59 Anthony: So much for Italian grandmas as elders.... 00:39:51 Eric Ewanco: Is this a representation of the idea of Purgatory, that there is debt from our sin that we need to suffer to resolve? 00:42:27 Anthony: 38 years 00:46:30 Eric Ewanco: Xenia? 00:46:55 Anthony: Basil of Moscow, Way of the Pilgrim Author, St. Francis of Assisi 00:47:58 Anthony: Andrew the Charcoal-burner 00:48:27 Rachel: St Benedic Labre 00:50:07 Eric Ewanco: https://orthodoxwiki.org/Fool-for-Christ 00:54:09 John Cruz: Are there contemporary fools for Christ? Is this a charism for even our times? 00:54:32 Rachel: What??Noooo 00:54:39 Rachel: lol oh dear 00:54:48 John Cruz: LOL 01:04:02 Anthony: Religious communities don;t need to be formally approved; people can just have their own informal community, no? 01:11:12 Ambrose Little, OP: There are benefits of being in a recognized/authorized community, though. 01:15:23 Johnny Ross: We must embrace the scars of this battle-the obstacle is the way 01:22:04 Anthony: John Cruz wanted to know if there are contemporary Fools for Christ. 01:22:56 Johnny Ross: Thank u Father 01:23:00 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you!! 01:23:08 Rachel: Thank you Father and everyone 01:23:11 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 01:23:15 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father.
Scrutinizing the movements of the mind and the heart is never an easy thing to do. In fact we find ever more clever ways to avoid doing so. Truthful living, a willingness to acknowledge one’s failings and communicate them to a spiritual guide is put before for us by the fathers as a path that we should desire. It is not meant to punish us or to humiliate us, but rather to free us in our capacity to love God and to give ourselves to Him. We see in this hypothesis how deep this kind of observation penetrates into the thoughts and actions of an individual. Spiritual fathers have the responsibility to aid their children and help them to internalize this process and to ask themselves honestly whether they love and desire Christ above all things. How often and how easily we are moved by our own self-will. We can drag our feet when it comes to doing something that we to which we have an aversion or where we feel that we have something to do that is more important or pressing. It is far more difficult to allow ourselves to be moved by the Spirit of Love. The greatest acts of love are often those that go unnoticed or are rooted in the fulfillment of the simplest of duties. To take up responsibility without grumbling or to respond with immediacy to the need of another is what God sees and values.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:25:30 Anthony: One can take this passage and read it into the early chapters of the Acts of the Apostles. Was it a kind of monastic community, and Ananias and Sapphira tries to enter the community but remain in the world, holding some of their own possessions? 00:31:34 Rachel: How old were the Apostles when Christ called them? 00:46:38 Anthony: "They" say you die as you have lived. I suppose then that Jesus' "Into Thy hands I commend My spirit." indicates He perfected this emptiness of self as He lived. 00:53:26 Eric Ewanco: "Grasps another's hand ostentatiously"? What does that mean? 01:23:34 Rachel: The fact that they scrutenize is consoling 01:24:23 Rachel: Thank you!
“Put out into the deep.”As we picked up with the Saint John’s writing on the spirit and practice of obedience the path set before us becomes ever so clear. We are called to be conformed to Christ. He is the standard by which we measure our lives and see what we have become in and through Him. We are to love obedience not because it brings satisfaction and joy in this world or because the things that happen to us or are asked of us conform to reason or our natural sensibilities. The fruit of obedience is humility; truthful living. It is living in accord with the truth of the kingdom that is revealed to us in and through the gift of faith. Obedience acts as that furnace of humiliation; it strips away from us the illusion of right judgment according to our own standards. What we are offered is so much more. Saint John quotes the great Cassian and tells us that humility gives rise to true discernment and out of true discernment comes clairvoyance and foreknowledge. We begin to see things, by the grace of God, through the eyes of Christ and in accord with the wisdom of the kingdom. What in this life should we desire more than this? Why do we find ourselves running back again and again simply to satisfy our own will and to manage our own life in a way that brings us fleeting happiness? We are promised the joy of the kingdom and participation in the perfect love of God. This is not something that we can put on and take off as we do a garment. This is our identity and it must shape everything in our lives and in our hearts.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:11:38 Ren: Thanks Lori! I would have my camera on, but I’m drying my hair :-D 00:16:24 Cindy Moran: How was the mini retreat last Saturday? 00:16:28 FrDavid Abernethy: page 91 00:17:27 Miron Kerul Kmec: https://lifegivingspringspodcast.podbean.com/ 00:17:27 Cindy Moran: Great!! Working in TV for 42 years...I needed it! 00:25:01 Eric Ewanco: wormwood/honey: This is a hard saying! 00:31:42 Eric Ewanco: Can we apply this principle to the current situation in the Church with +Francis? 00:45:42 Ambrose Little, OP: Following on from #104, it seems to me it's not really obedience if you agree with the direction you’re given--then you're effectively still just following your own will and mind. It’s when you are directed to something that you don't currently agree with or don't understand fully that it takes obedience, at least as a practical virtue. This is where the rubber meets the road, as it were, with regards to one’s bishop and the Holy Father--or one's own spiritual director. 00:51:54 Ambrose Little, OP: That's obedience to the rubrics. 🙂 00:53:34 Cathy Murphy: Music and signing effect a different part of the brain and creates a different experience 00:55:01 Rachel: LOL 00:55:40 Anthony: There's something in the Imitation of Christ, like: "There are so many difficult things in the Bible, sometimes it's best not to think too much if you can't understand." It applies to a lot of Christian life. Thinking too much and forcing understanding can be a self-inflicted wound. 00:58:52 Johnny Ross: This is a process of isolation since most people do not understand or appreciate any of this. 01:00:14 Eric Ewanco: my translation has insight instead of clarivoyance 01:00:59 Anthony: Padre Pio and violets 01:04:36 Ren: I can’t even imagine being perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect. I would have to become a totally different person. I’m sure that’s the point 😄 01:07:32 Ren: Its so hard…I’m sure when we are told to “put on Christ” we are meant to do so in the way a graft is put on - so very closely and permanently. Instead, putting on Christ for me is at the most like putting on a coat that quickly becomes too hot or uncomfortable - or unneeded - and is tossed aside. 01:07:33 Mark Cummings: It reinforces that I need to pray the prayer “I believe, help my unbelief” very very often 01:07:58 Anthony: This is amazing. The idea "be perfect," even in the relationship to examining conscience is something that can be crushing....but the blossoming flower of hope in God is something else entirely. This hope something happy, even knowing a person is a sinner, and I wish this hope were emphasized more in the relationship to examining conscience. 01:12:58 Johnny Ross: Optionality is the Grand illusion. We are inundated with choices in this consumer driven culture yet the way is narrow 01:14:56 Johnny Ross: Thank You 01:19:51 Eric Ewanco: I like the term "spiritual warfare". :-) 01:22:15 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: "Give thanks in all things..." 01:22:17 Rachel: Thank you! 01:22:21 Johnny Ross: Great as usual, Thanks Father 01:23:01 Johnny Ross: Amen 01:23:02 Bridget McGinley: Thank you 01:23:05 Rachel: Have a beautiful retreat!! 01:23:08 Miron Kerul Kmec: Thank you 01:23:14 Rachel: Thank you Ren!! 01:23:28 Art: Great job Ren!! 01:23:29 kevin: thanks renz! 01:23:31 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: thank you 01:23:33 Lori Hatala: very user friendly 01:23:34 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father...great session! 01:23:37 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: address 01:23:46 Cindy Moran: Thank you Ren! 01:23:48 Hannah Hong: Thank you 01:23:54 sue and mark: good night and God bless you and everyone. have a blessed retreat 01:24:00 kevin: thanks everyone
It is as if we are sitting at the well, drinking deeply of that life-giving water. The fathers’ writings on the spiritual life speak to the soul in such a deep fashion that it gives rise to an insatiable desire for God. It is the willingness to do exactly what the fathers instruct in this hypothesis in our own way that will bear fruit. They call those entering the monastic life to look deeply into their hearts to see if they have there a desire for God; a desire strong enough to carry them to the end. We do our souls a disservice, they tell us, when we fail to present the challenge and the responsibility of the Christian life in an unvarnished fashion.
We are called to set aside self-will in whatever station we find ourselves in this world. We are to live for God and by his grace, always serving him and one another in a spirit of humility. We are called quite frankly to be foolish in the eyes of the world. We are called to embrace a voluntary slavery not for the sake of earthly riches or for the sake of and earthly king. We let go of our self-will in order to follow He who promises us everything. Our Beloved calls out to us, “Follow Me”. Is there the desire, the longing and the humility within us to draw us along that path?
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Text of chat during the group:
00:22:11 Anthony: Rule of St Pachomius was a predecessor of St Seraphim Sarovsky's prayer rule, no? 00:36:03 Anthony: I think the devils attack and discourage in precisely those areas they perceive we are intended to grow holy. It is a weariness, and it shows how maliciously nasty the devils are. 00:39:35 Bridget McGinley: How does one recharge after endless warfare? How do we know if it is temptation from the evil one or a trial from God? 00:56:17 Anthony: In Syria, St. Ephrem's (& Isaac's) home, the consecrated life was not necessarily just for the unmarried, but they also lived in or among larger communities that contained families or singles not taking vows. Does Ephrem ever distinguish whether his advice is for the cloistered or for the people who live in non-vowed communities around the monastics? 00:57:55 Rachel: Yes!! 00:59:09 Denise T. : How important is it to have a mentor in the spiritual life he talks of? And how do you find one to help you navigate the life? What would you look for? 01:01:49 Ambrose Little, OP: One thing I find challenging is the council given--complete abasement, because that is not acceptable in the world, for those who must put themselves forward as competent in their chosen profession. It's not that we can't practice humility at all, but it is a balancing act between reassuring those who pay us that we actually do know things and are actually good at doing what we are asking to be paid for—and at the same time doing our best to practice humility in the eyes of God and being open to humiliation as is counseled in these readings (much less to seek that out). This is doubly hard when you need to get a new job, promotion, raise, get a new client, etc.—you have to put forward your best foot and "sell" yourself. I can see why they also counsel leaving the world entirely to achieve this perfection. 🙂 01:06:26 Ambrose Little, OP: On the note of finding spiritual guidance, these meetings (The Evergetinos and Climacus) are very good for ongoing, living guidance with the Fathers. 01:06:46 Ambrose Little, OP: life-giving, too! 🙂
One participant in this evening‘s group commented that the counsel that St. John gives is eminently practical. This is true of the writings of the fathers as a whole. Their wisdom is rooted in Praxis; the practice of the faith, the exercise of the faith. Their writings seem to make so much sense because they are rooted in experiences that we so often take for granted or fail to explore. What is our motivation for doing or not doing certain things? What is it that drives us or leads us to negligence?
What one begins to see in John’s teaching is the beauty of obedience. Obedience is our capacity to listen to God without any impediment caused by self-will, without our ego blinding us to the truth about ourselves. Setting aside the false self allows us to act with a precious freedom. It cuts through all of our machinations about particular circumstances or responsibilities. It allows us to take up things with love and to see them through the eyes of love. We begin to understand why the fathers, then, speak of loving the virtues. We are to love obedience because it is not something that inhibits us but rather allows our true identity to emerge. It brings healing to our fundamental spiritual sickness as human beings - to put ourselves in the place of God. One of our great weaknesses is that we project our own image on to God and so create the illusion of fidelity.
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00:15:23 Marco da Vinha: Good evening from Blighty! 00:19:10 Daniel Allen: I’m sorry where are we at? 00:19:37 Bonnie Lewis: #91 00:20:03 Daniel Allen: Thank you 00:25:26 Ambrose Little, OP: About meditating on what's in the office, part of the purpose of the antiphons and the brief meditation at the start of each psalm/canticle is to give the mind an anchor for that meditation, not too dissimilar from the mysteries in the rosary. Perhaps the antiphons were added after Climacus to help address the challenge of focus during communal psalmody. 00:28:51 Marco da Vinha: Would those be the Gyrovagues St. Benedict (very sparingly) talks about? 00:36:57 Bonnie Lewis: This is so beautifully written. 00:44:38 Daniel Allen: That is SHOCKINGLY practical for parents. I would love to do an all night vigil when my toddler is screaming during the night. But if he sleeps, last thing I’d want is to be woken up. And that same example during the day as well. 00:49:52 Daniel Allen: This makes me think, can God allow things mentioned here such as vain glory, to keep the monk in his cell 00:51:43 Johnny Ross: Interesting that the Evil one first tempted Christ with Bread in the desert 00:53:04 Marco da Vinha: @Johnny Ross: Adam and Eve's Fall was breaking the only rule of fasting He had given them 😅 00:53:27 Daniel Allen: I had a question above about the previous section 96 01:00:50 Daniel Allen: A freedom from one’s own self will 01:01:21 Ashley Kaschl: I haven’t completely finished the article I’m going to mention, but it’s Fr. Freeman’s most recent article about the ego and how we can create a false reality about our state in life and about God, and how we fall into the danger of placing zero boundaries when it comes to our ego - we live an aimless life or a life according to “me” and we can even delude ourselves into being obedient to our idea of what we think is true or what is Godly. I think St. John is talking about something similar if we give ourselves over to despondency instead of humility and diligence. 01:04:23 Johnny Ross: Many have created God in their own image instead of the other way around 01:04:28 Deb Dayton: I think this is the article https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/glory2godforallthings/2022/09/21/boundaries-borders-and-the-true-god/ 01:07:05 Ashley Kaschl: I have to run. My service is spotty. Thanks for the great group though! 01:07:52 Marco da Vinha: A bit tangential, but the previous paragraph and comments reminded me of something the painter said in the movie "A Hidden Life". When the main character saw him painting Christ in a chapel and praised him for it, the painter's reply was very interesting - "What we do, is just create... sympathy. We create-- We create admirers. We don't create followers. Christ's life is a demand. You don't want to be reminded of it. So we don't have to see what happens to the truth. A darker time is coming... when men will be more clever. They won't fight the truth, they'll just ignore it. I paint their comfortable Christ, with a halo over his head. How can I show what I haven't lived? Someday I might have the courage to venture, not yet. Someday I'll... I'll paint the true Christ." 01:15:37 Lee Graham: Discern where others are without condemnation 01:16:27 Art: Thank you father. Good night! 01:16:28 Johnny Ross: Thank You Father 01:16:29 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you! 01:16:37 Deiren Masterson: God bless - thanks Father - all 01:16:38 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father! 01:16:39 kevin: thanks 01:16:44 Deb Dayton: Thank you so much
We began by considering how the fathers of the desert would scrutinize individuals who would come to the monastery seeking entrance. They would put men to the test in every way to see if they had both the psychological and spiritual maturity not simply to make a decision but to persevere in the life and trials of a monk. One does not enter a monastery in a state of perfection. One is perfected through trials and tribulations; through the cross that is particular to one’s life. What stands out in the two stories that we listened to this evening about Saint Theodora and Saint Paul the Simple was the preeminence of two things: desire and humility. Upon entering the Christian life or more specifically the monastic life, one must be driven with a desire for God, a longing for Him and Hie love and to live a God pleasing life. Second to this desire is the virtue of humility. Along with such desire, one must live in the truth; the truth that all things begin and end with God. He alone is the source of our strength. He alone is our hope. It is our ego that most often is the impediment to our putting on the mind of Christ and being conformed to Him by the grace of God. When we no longer see anything but Christ, then we are filled with the desire to do His will. We are willing to endure every hardship for love of Him without grumbling or complaining. Joyfully these individuals sought out this life not to create a false image of themselves but to let go of the false self and to live for Christ alone.
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00:25:51 Carol: It is hard to understand how it was God’s will that Theodora, and later Paul the Simple, set aside their marriage vows and abandon their spouses. 00:33:44 Bridget McGinley: I love this story. She was amazing. Far from the uttermost coasts is the price of her! What a warrior for Christ. 00:36:31 Carol Nypaver: Did they ever find out she was a woman? 00:38:16 Ambrose Little, OP: I guess someone must have figured it out because we know her as St. Theodora and not St. Theodore. 🙂 00:38:34 Carol Nypaver: 🤣 00:38:47 Debra: 😁 00:39:26 Samar Tabet: Just clarifying: mon at 7:30,i hsve this link Wed at 7:30– whats the link for Wednesday? 00:40:16 Carol Nypaver: https://philokalia.link/climacus 00:46:23 Carol: Heroic meekness 00:48:21 Sheila Applegate: I just chuckled...so much truth. 00:52:18 Carol Nypaver: 60 years old——“elderly?!”😩 00:53:38 Debra: I agree, Carol! 00:54:08 Carol Nypaver: 😭🤣 00:54:13 Bridget McGinley: Esp in women's orders today. After 35 your old!! 00:54:32 Carol Nypaver: Yikes! 00:55:39 Bridget McGinley: 😇 00:56:12 Sheila Applegate: But in another way, why do we feel that way? Does one really know what they want out of life in their 20s? Some, sure. I am 46 and only feel that now I have an inkling of what God wants. What an odd mandate. 00:58:16 Sheila Applegate: We learn how to suffer the more we live. Good for him! 00:59:30 Bridget McGinley: I agree Sheila I think older is better especially these days. I don't know any 20 something person who is really mature these days. 01:02:18 Sheila Applegate: I get the docile part... 01:15:42 Ambrose Little, OP: I love how he basically said to St. Anthony: “Is that all you got??" 😆 01:16:01 Ashley Kaschl: 😂😂 01:19:42 Rachel: Thank you!!
What emerges in reading the fathers is the subtle and yet intense interior battle that takes place within the human heart. We are often men and women of great contradiction. We can love and hate the same thing at the same time. We can create unholy alliances with others whose passions speak to our own and nurture our own. "Like speaks to like." And so we are taught that we should seek the company of those who love and desire God. Even if our experience in this world is one of isolation, if we feel alone in our pursuit of virtue, we should not be filled with any anxiety. One righteous man who does the will of God is better than a multitude of those who disregard the Commandments. As the Scriptures tell us, “from one wise man a city will be replenished.” Furthermore, when it comes to desire, we must keep Christ clearly before us and keep our eyes upon him. If we are simply following the pack, there will be many things that distract us from Him and losing sight of Him we will turn off of the narrow path that leads to Life. Desire and zeal for the Lord must be sought and grow over time. There is no static position within the spiritual life. Our hearts must long for the Beloved and drive us to pursue Him.
The fathers also speak to us about how necessary it is to test this desire, to scrutinize those who, in particular, are pursuing the ascetic life. As Christ counsels us to count the costs, so we see in the fathers a firmness in challenging those who would follow them in the ascetic life. Self-will and self-esteem offer only temporary motivation. It is love alone that endures.
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00:05:44 Ashley Kaschl: I’m eating fried chicken or is show my face 😂😂 00:16:28 Ashley Kaschl: I love that idea! 00:49:11 Carol: Reminds me of the Song of Songs, he whom my heart loves. I held on to him and 00:49:23 Carol: Would not let him go 00:51:41 Ashley Kaschl: This conversation is bringing to mind a story that a friend told me over the weekend about his missionary work in Ghana, and how this priest told him about a tree native to the region where each tree’s root system mirrors the canopy of that tree. So if you had a tree with a small canopy, the root system would also be small or shallow, the tree not very sturdy, where as a large canopy would indicate a deep and widespread root system, and a sturdy tree. He said that you could always tell the health of this tree by the condition of its canopy. He reflected that if the roots of our prayer life are sprawling, secure, reaching out deeply in imitation of Christ, and if we are unwavering in our desire to be with Him, then the canopy of our life, the fruit, will mirror those roots. The fruit/canopy will tell of our intimacy with Christ often without having to speak a word. That we can’t help but to reflect the state of our interior lives. 00:55:02 Ashley Kaschl: Also I have to leave 👋 good seeing you all 😁 01:17:56 Rachel: Thank you
I’ve often thought the Desert Fathers were the first and truest of depth psychologists. Their understanding of the human person, the workings of the mind and the heart, the effects of the emotions, and the workings of the unconscious is unparalleled in anything that we have seen before or sense. Tonight Saint John Climacus, in a few paragraphs, takes us into those depths. He shows us the extent to which we can become conceited and that a false self can begin to emerge and become solidified. Out of their experience the Fathers came to know the many and varied ways that these things manifest themselves and the spiritual remedies to be applied. Disobedience, our inability to hear the truth and embrace it with love, has an impact on every area of our life and every relationship. It can lead to a kind of passive-aggressiveness that hardens the heart and makes us insensible to the needs of others or their goodness. Even Saint John says that he is amazed at the dexterity that we show in all manner of sin and the diversity of evil that flows from it.
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00:14:17 FrDavid Abernethy: para 81 page 88 00:14:34 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: Hi What page again please 00:14:45 FrDavid Abernethy: page 88 00:14:50 FrDavid Abernethy: para 81 00:15:07 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: Thank u 00:15:49 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: Good to be here 00:31:39 Johnny Ross: The paradox of true freedom is that it is found in obedience and conformity to our spiritual practice as shown by Christ. True freedom is not being able to do what you want. That is the distortion of modernity. 00:35:19 Carol Nypaver: What if bearing with insults causes suspicion from one’s boss in the workplace? At what point can we defend ourselves? Doesn’t justice demand that? 00:37:37 Carol: Like a lamb led to the slaughter, he opened not his mouth 00:38:15 Jeffrey Ott: This seems to align with Evagrius’ conversations on meekness and how courage and patience work together, “the work of courage and patience is to know no fear of enemies and eagerly to endure afflictions.” 00:38:36 Ambrose Little, OP: I wonder if some of the genius is that instead of trying to tackle lust head on, it’s coming at it from a different angle--one that is less associated with bodily desire. The mental desire for respect/high opinion of yourself (pride), though, is similar in that it is also a disordered desire. So if we learn to tame pride by embracing scorn, that exercise can teach us experientially how to tame lust (or other passions). 00:40:58 Cindy Moran: I have known some who have stayed in an abusive marriage saying they a trying to grow in holiness. 00:48:16 Ambrose Little, OP: Not a few saints have embraced significant personal suffering as a way of penance. Do you think it's ever right to endure, for example, an abusive relationship as a form of penance? Or what about an abusive brother in a monastic community? 01:03:07 Johnny Ross: This ego-centric Self is an illusion used by the prince of this world to control us. What about the tension between love thy neighbor as thyself and pick up thy cross and deny thyself. What is this self referred to here? 01:10:26 Ambrose Little, OP: like a small child.. 01:15:45 Lee Graham: What is my motive for doing something a certain way? Seek Pure motives as well as purity of heart. 01:18:29 Bonnie Lewis: Father, I'm afraid you cut out. I didn't hear what you just announced. 01:18:37 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: 🙏🏼 01:18:43 Eric Ewanco: yes 01:18:57 Eric Ewanco: (no group next week) 01:18:59 Bonnie Lewis: OK- thank you. 01:19:08 Jeffrey Ott: thank you! 01:19:12 Johnny Ross: Thank you Father, sending prayers 01:19:20 Carol Nypaver: Thank you so much! 01:19:27 Rafael Patrignani: thank you Fr David! 01:19:31 Art: Thank you Father. Good night 01:19:32 mark cummings: Thank you!!! 01:20:09 Cindy Moran: Excellent session! Thank you Father! Weill be praying for your event. 01:20:18 Deiren Masterson: Thank you Father 01:20:20 Ashley Kaschl: Thank you!! 01:20:21 Bonnie Lewis: Amen. Thank you Father. 01:20:27 Ambrose Little, OP: really liked that flame wax paragraph. great analogy.
VWhere do we live our lives? Who is God and how do we see ourselves and our own identity in light of the Incarnation? The writings of the Fathers have at their center these basic questions.
So often our tendency is to dissect the faith. We pull things apart - thinking that we are going to understand them with a greater clarity. Yet in doing so we lose sight of the whole. Can we understand Mystery of God or the other unless we allow ourselves to be drawn into it and what is beyond us. We lose sight of what God has revealed to us about Himself and about love. We lose sight of what that means for us, our identity and what it means to love others.
Whenever we take our eyes off of God and whenever we lose sight of our own poverty and need for mercy, immediately our eyes shift to the others and their flaws. Again and again the fathers tell us that even if we see negligence in others we are not to be scandalized by it. We are not to follow it, but we must not become haughty and judge what we perceive to be mediocrity.
Our focus is to remain on our own hearts and responding to the call to repentance and faith. We are to learn from experience. We must enter into the struggle, the warfare that exists within our own hearts and in our thoughts. Likewise, we are to avoid the things of this world that present us with a false image of life and reality. And most important of all: we are to keep our focus upon He who is Reality, He who is Meaning. It is through Christ and through Christ alone that we find the answers to our questions.
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00:13:21 FrDavid Abernethy: page 207, paragraph 4 00:20:30 Jack: page? 00:21:12 Ambrose Little, OP: p207, #4 00:36:38 maureencunningham: I just watch the Movie Man of God.. He was very Holy 00:37:18 maureencunningham: he didi not allow the evil one to get his heart turned away from God 00:42:25 Erick Chastain: What's the balance between focusing only on our own sin to stir repentance and looking at those of others when you will incur sin by saying nothing about the sins of others (e.g. when fraternal correction is obligatory or when there are sins against justice)? 00:50:26 Erick Chastain: are you saying that therefore until there is this preparatory work helping the other carrying their burden, loving them, praying/sacrificing for them, etc fraternal correction is not obligatory under the pain of sin? (if the original desire to engage in fraternal correction was not from a spirit of critical judgment but just the desire to avoid sin?) 00:52:01 Samar Tabet: Can we correct 00:52:12 Samar Tabet: One sec 00:52:15 Samar Tabet: Corrective feedback 00:52:23 Samar Tabet: To priests or 00:52:26 Samar Tabet: Friends 00:52:32 Samar Tabet: Or bishop 00:52:38 Samar Tabet: If not related to sin 00:52:55 Samar Tabet: Letter for example 00:56:29 Carol: ‘If you want to find rest in this life and the next, say at every moment, “who am I?” And judge no one.’ Sayings of the Desert Fathers 01:00:36 Ambrose Little, OP: Your advice is direct from the lips of our Lord: “You hypocrite, remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother’s eye." (Matt 7:5) Too often we believe we've already removed the beam when we haven’t at all.
As we allow ourselves to be drawn deeper into the meaning of obedience by St. John’s writing, we begin to see the beauty of the virtue itself and the fruit that it produces within the soul. It is not a slavishness or weakness of will, but rather a soul that has been awakened to the lack of freedom that comes from self-judgment and that is limited or obscured by sin. The more that the heart is purified by grace and the ascetic life, the more we begin to long for obedience because it is an imitation of our Lord. It is His obedience that has led us all to the freedom of life and love in God. We become the greatest confessors of the faith when we conform ourselves to Him in this fashion. A true spiritual father, then, is going to guide their spiritual children along this path that treasures humility, stillness, silence and unceasing prayer.
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00:03:59 FrDavid Abernethy: page 87 00:04:12 FrDavid Abernethy: paragraph 72 00:19:17 Anthony: Thus, we have Vladika David ;) 00:29:25 Anthony: This humility is different than the idea that man is totally depraved but God declares us just. That religious idea can/does lead to self-loathing. The hopefulness is in the infusion of Grace and Love which God gives us very wounded people. That is a happy hope in contrast to our weakness and realization of our darkness outside of being attached to the Vine. 00:40:31 Anthony: There is a Bulgarian Orthodox Skete in Palmyra, VA near Charlottesville. 00:47:21 Rachel: They may, by this silence, learn to worship God in the moment. Standing silent before the other and suspending judgment.. 00:47:59 Eric Ewanco: how is silence concretely rooted in gentleness and love? 00:48:04 Rachel: May be a way to practice faith and wait patiently for God to reveal Himself 00:51:11 Rachel: I don't think it means that we wont meet with situations where we find others contradicting us, or, when we are actively trying to be silent ourselves contradicting others all day long. So the silence may bring up a lot of uncomfortable contradictions where we learn by necessity, to wait patiently and rely on God in His good providence. It is not an inactive silence 00:52:02 Rachel: Its not rendering oneself dumb 00:53:13 Carol: Like the Blessed Virgin, pondering in one’s heart 00:54:23 Johnny Ross: Isn't this silence related to our Saviors Kenosis? It is an emptying of ourselves. Related also to the Via Negativa? 00:59:24 Anthony: When we are emptied, we want to be filled, to have an identity; but it 01:00:13 Anthony: it's awfully hard to follow Jesus because we can't grasp or contain Him, so we want to build ourselves into an image of what we want to be or should be. 01:01:03 Anthony: the heirs of the maccabees 01:05:52 Rachel: today 01:06:30 Rachel: in whole foods yesterday lol 01:08:28 Johnny Ross: Yes, we face a stark choice today, Either we worship God or we worship ourselves. 01:09:01 Anthony: /because prayer is work? 01:12:34 Bridget McGinley: The Bible states to Pray Always... the theme of The Way of the Pilgrim 01:14:42 Rachel: Instead of stripping oneself of everything that may stand in the way of God. Emptying our hearts can feel uncomfortable. prayer can become like building up a wall. Sort of like coming to God every time in prayer and only making small talk or talking at Him, instead of listening and silencing everything that causes anxiety. A way of controlling the conversation for fear of hearing something that is displeasing. 01:17:02 Carol Nypaver: Saint Augustine ~ “When the word of God increases, human words fail.” 01:17:50 Debra: And how can you tell the difference? 01:18:11 Debra: Between desolation, or being drawn deeper? 01:19:46 Debra: Good points...linger in those moments...see where God is taking us 01:20:39 Rachel: I think St Sophrony and St Silouan speak of this. I wonder is there always a correlation between desolation and being drawn deeper? Almost like suddenly becoming aware in a deeper sense that in ourselves, we lack the capacity to run to Him. To feel His presence 01:21:13 Rachel: So we wait, and stay with Him. St Therese speaks of this too 01:22:33 Anthony: That is what Purgatory is, per Dante. 01:23:01 Anthony: a longing to be free, repaired and pure for love. 01:24:21 Johnny Ross: Thank You Father 01:24:33 Rachel: Thank you Father Thank you evryone 01:24:35 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father!!! 01:24:36 Rachel: lol yes
There is no life without wonder. The life that is given to us in Christ is not something that emerges from our own imagination or judgment; rather it is revealed to us in the cross, in the gospel, and especially in the holy Eucharist. We are drawn into something that is greater than ourselves and on a natural level this cannot be anything but terrifying. The desert fathers present us with the gospel in an unvarnished fashion. Over and over again we are shown how we are to prefer God and seek God above all things; even above those things that seem just, right, and good. The evil one will relentlessly seek to draw us away from the will of God and from the life that he has offered us and pull us back into the mire of sin. This is why we must mortify ourselves; that is, we must die to self and self-will in order to live for Christ and to experience the peace of the kingdom. The path to evil and sin is easy. Everything in this world draws us towards it. It’s only when we repent and turn towards Christ in an absolute fashion do we come to experience freedom - the freedom of sons and daughters of God. Only then do we see ourselves as God sees us. When this happens we lose all fear and anxiety.
Understanding this, we should not be surprised when men turn back to the world. What is more amazing is when we see a man clinging to Christ with heroic love and fidelity.
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00:24:47 Anthony: At first it seems harsh, but it is perceptive. Poimen called Ruler's bluff, and let him look at his own conscience as a mirror for his unjust deed. 00:26:15 Daniel Allen: That story is a lot like how Herod wanted to meet Jesus, but he never sought Him out and was amused and intrigued by him but with no intention to learn from Him. Jesus never went to Herod, until His Passion. This ruler is amused by Poimen and tries to entice Poimen to come to him to fulfill his amusements. And Poimen refused to cater to his petty curiosity and amusements. 00:33:52 Carol: Reminds me of Newman, “one step enough for me” 00:36:00 Anthony: This brings up another question: a good understanding on retirement accounts, pensions, investments, interest/returns and even usury. It's hard to turn away from predicting the future and money, even trying to be prudent so we are a burden to no one since we are self sufficient. Is this fear, or is investment good, like the parable of talents taken in a literal sense? 00:39:14 Ashley Kaschl: I think we can fall into a false prudence pretty easily, which would translate to self-preservation at all costs. 00:40:52 Ren Witter: Wow - so much is packed into this paragraph. I am particularly struck by the sentence “For He Who promised this does not lie." I am so anxious about the future, but I don't often see my inability to trust as an accusation that the Lord is a liar, but in the end it is. Maybe the way He provides for us is just different from what we imagine being provided for looks like? I can't imagine that he is promising to provide us with all the material securities we believe ourselves in need of. 00:53:57 Kevin Clay: “If you help her, another will come along asking for help…" It seems like ALL the lessons tonight are saying the same thing: If we make an exception, then the exception becomes the rule. Thus we need to save ourselves from the *false* guilt of breaking from the duties of our Christian vocation for others out of need - because there will always be needs - or even our own curiosities to chase ideas and activities. In short, once we make an exception, we become regularly distracted - and potentially eventually completely off course. 01:06:29 Ren Witter: Really, paragraph one is also wonderful advice simply for the sake of our own peace of mind and joy: how much better to be rejoice in virtue and constancy, then to be constantly turning the mind to falls and failures, and being pulled down into the sorrow of them oneself. Better, always, to look to what is a cause of joy. 01:07:46 Lee Graham: “It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.” 2 Peter 2:20-21 01:07:48 Daniel Allen: Could this also be more personal than prophetic? End times as in we live in the end times since the coming of Christ. And that finding 3 people who strive towards God (co strugglers) is of greater value than the security of the group (the thousands). 01:13:05 Carol: Also the Good Samaritan and the man lying in the gutter 01:13:27 Daniel Allen: You’re so correct and it’s terrifying 01:16:19 Sheila Applegate: It is terrifying because we see our smallness and lack of faith in the providence and grace of God. 01:17:22 Sheila Applegate: We prefer to intellectualize and analyze our own way. 01:17:51 Ren Witter: This message is really so extraordinary: we do not want to attend to the poor, because their poverty terrifies us; we do not want to attend to those who are sad, because their sorrow is discomforting; we do not want to attend to the physically or mentally ill, because we can be literally afraid of catching something, or losing our own peace of mind. Evil, and this strange manifestation of it - a preference for the rich, the healthy, the strong - are so much easier. But virtue, and keeping company with the truly blessed - the poor, the meek, the sorrowing - is hard and uncomfortable. 01:18:27 Ren Witter: So compelling. Wow.
Tonight we continued with our study of Step 4 on Obedience. As we go deeper into St. John’s writing we begin to see the fruit of this virtue that often remains hidden to our eyes. Our obedience fosters habit; in particular the habit of virtue where one acknowledges that God is a fellow laborer. Obedience also shapes the way that we approach the confession of our sins. It allows us to see their gravity, and it fosters within us the deepest sense of compunction. The fruit of this, however, is a repentance the draws us back into the arms of God swiftly and allows us to experience His healing grace. The great virtue also makes us cherish the gift of the Holy Eucharist more fully. We begin to understand how precious this gift is and so desire to protect our minds and our hearts from the greater attacks that often come after receiving our Lord. It also allows us to see that we do not engage in this battle in isolation but rather we march with the first martyr, that is Christ. Through obedience we always have the Divine Physician with us. If we do fall we are immediately aided and healed by his presence. For this reason we must also choose well a competent spiritual physician, an elder who himself has been formed and shaped by this great virtue. For St. John tells us that obedience brings humility and out of this humility is born dispassion. The more that we walk along this path the more we begin to experience the angelic life; that is, we begin to experience the very peace and the joy of the kingdom, God draws us into the very perfection of His Love.
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00:09:42 FrDavid Abernethy: page 86, para 63 00:14:35 CMoran: I work at WQED so maybe I can run across 5th Ave. for liturgy. 00:14:49 CMoran: Cindy 00:15:46 Anthony: A lot of restraunters and homeschooling families? 00:18:07 Bonnie Lewis: Excellent! 00:20:11 Rachel: Thatsna 10 percent down payment in Cali 00:20:26 Rachel: lol 00:35:38 Marco da Vinha: Though I am a Latin, looking at Forgiveness Sunday just before Lent - the "Tithe of the Year" - brings to mind Mt 5:23-24: "Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift." 00:37:51 Eric Ewanco: It's easier to be humble when we are wrong, especially with those who are humble. It is much harder to be humble when we are right, dealing with those who are prideful and arrogant! 00:46:54 Kevin Clay: What does John mean by the last part: “For it is better to war with pollutions (thoughts) than with conceit.” 00:47:10 Bridget McGinley: What might those additional "spiritual sacrifices" look like after confession? 00:48:25 Rachel: Pride versus thoughts of various kinds that show the wounds of our disloyalty. ride may be more difficult and subtle? 00:49:05 Br Theophan the non-recluse: @kevin if one presumes that they have truly won the spiritual battle, then they fall prey to the sin of conceit, which is worst being engaged in a spiritual battle, as one is then too spiritually blind to see their sinful state 00:49:09 Rachel: Pride* o dear sorry for the typos 00:50:08 Rachel: ty Brother Theophan 00:52:45 Carol: Theophan said something similar about the time immediately after Communion, to seek solitude and privacy in one’s room to deepen the intimacy of prayer 00:53:48 Eric Ewanco: I believe, Lord, and profess that You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God, come to this world to save sinners, of whom I am the greatest. I believe also that this is really your spotless body and that this is really your precious blood. Wherefore I pray to You: have mercy on me and pardon my offenses, the deliberate and the indeliberate, those committed in word and in deed whether knowingly or inadvertently; and count me worthy to share without condemnation your spotless mysteries, for the remission of sins and for eternal life. Receive me now, O Son of God, as a participant in your mystical supper: for I will not betray your mystery to your enemies, nor give You a kiss like Judas, but like the thief, I confess You: remember me, Lord, in your kingdom. 00:54:06 Marco da Vinha: Father, a bit of a digression, but do you have any idea of when penances to combat the passions stopped being the norm in the West? My own experience in the confessional has always been "pray X/Y/Z" and never any concrete actions to combat the vices I struggle with. And yet I read recently a saintly 16th century Dominican archbishop advising his priests to give penances according the the sins confessed: fasting for sins of gluttony/lust; almsgiving for avarice; prayer for sloth/acedia... 00:55:00 Eric Ewanco: "May the reception of your holy mysteries, Lord, be for me not to judgment or condemnation, but to the healing of (my) soul and body. Amen." 01:00:05 Henry Peresie: St. John Vianney was one of those priests who spent many hours in the confessional. 01:04:49 Eric Ewanco: I thought "hesychasm" arose a few centuries after John? 01:08:28 Anthony: As David said, something like even his bones groaned. 01:18:08 Rachel: This reminds me of the rich young man who encountered Our Lord Himself and went away sad, not willing to give up his attachments. How he followed all of the commandments in obedience.. 01:18:38 Rachel: yet, God is found in His commandments. Or, hidden in His commandments. 01:19:09 Anthony: it makes sense since angels are under obedience and they are in God's happy presence. 01:20:04 Anthony: and here i thought they always were talking about not marrying. wow. 01:23:11 Rachel: The older copy's introduction is wonderful! 01:24:02 Marco da Vinha: God bless, Father! 01:24:08 CMoran: Thank you Father!!! 01:24:18 Rachel: Thank you Father and everyone 01:24:20 Bonnie Lewis: thank you again Father! Always wonderful.
A tremendous reflection this evening on the writings of the fathers regarding entanglements with the things of this world. The Evil One acts with great subtlety and the further one progresses in the spiritual life the more subtle these temptations become. Often things can be put before us that seem to be good and holy and worthy of our attention; yet do we respond to them or do we step back and discern whether or not they are from God or the Evil One? The greatest of temptations can appeal to our religious sensibilities and our desire to help others. Even empathy and sympathy for others in their struggles can be used as a means to distract us from the interior warfare that is raging within us. The fathers tell us that he who wishes to conquer the passions while entangled in worldly concerns is like the man who tries to quench a fire with straw. When we act with no knowledge of ourselves and are blind to the things of God, how is it that we are to give advice to others, to counsel others about the spiritual life or even to seek to give aid to those who are suffering? What we might be responding to is an emotion that the devil has heightened within us. Often he can appeal to the heart, but in a very dark fashion. His desire is not for the good but rather to lead us into neglect of God. He seeks to draw us into the affairs of others where the mind, not having a deeper knowledge of itself, cannot test its own judgments. It is then that there is the greatest risk of error. When the interior state of the soul is neglected and we begin to accept certain sins into our life, then the smaller sins can even appear to us to be good things and we can boast about them as accomplishments without feeling any remorse. What value then are we going to be to others? What light or source of healing can we be to others if Christ does not dwell within our own hearts?
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00:08:31 FrDavid Abernethy: page 202 00:08:39 FrDavid Abernethy: second paragraph 00:13:03 Eric Williams: "Here comes trouble." - some parishioners, probably ;) 00:14:18 Eric Williams: Gotta de-latinize that church ;) 00:14:34 Eric Williams: You survived Heinz Chapel 00:15:36 Anthony: There are now small area A/Cs for sale in places like home depot / lowes 00:35:48 renwitter: What are "the spoils of knowledge” that he mentions here? 00:42:31 Anthony: There is maybe another subtle trick of the devils: to remind a person of an objectively good thing (even if worldly) that one tried to attain, and just could not. The mind can be flooded with a constant assault of many harmful imaginings and emotions which have power because it is a _good_ thing that one failed to do.
Tonight we continued our reading of Step 4 on Obedience and its practice in the spiritual life. Saint John, as well as so many of the desert fathers, unearth what we typically keep hidden within our hearts. Rather than living in a spirit of obedience and allowing that obedience to bear the fruit of humility within us by setting aside our own willfulness, we cling to the illusions of self-sufficiency. Despite all that Christ has done and despite all that God has given to us, we believe that we can live with one foot in the world and one foot in the kingdom. The humility that obedience fosters teaches us that we cannot externalize or distance ourselves from the evil and the sin of the world. There is a radical solidarity between ourselves and others that demands a constant movement of our heart - repentance. Whenever we see evil or sin, our first movement must be toward God in a cry for mercy and healing. We must humbly lay bare our wound to the physician and without being ashamed say: “It is my wound, father, it is my plague, caused by my own negligence, and, not by anything else. No one is to blame for this, no man, no spirit, no body, nothing but my own carelessness.“ We must allow these words to penetrate our hearts to root out all the excuses we put forward in order to remain in a place of mediocrity.
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00:17:16 Anthony: Congratulations Fr David! 00:17:24 CMoran: Question: What is Prelest? I off-topic--If not appropriate, please ignore the question. 00:17:53 CMoran: Sorry..."IF" 00:17:58 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: I missed what you said Father Where are you assigned? 00:18:02 Mark Kelly: Prelest is like a spiritual illusion of ones self. 00:18:18 Edward Kleinguetl: SS Peter & Paul in Duquesne, PA 00:18:20 Eric Ewanco: Prelast is Spiritual deception, I'm sure Father can elaorate 00:21:14 Mark Kelly: Prelest, in the extreme, is seeing one’s self as a prophet or spiritual guide or some exulted person. In common terms it is something we all must deal with. Spiritually deceiving ourselves. 00:53:01 Edward Kleinguetl: A priest once told me in confession that "no reformer ever had bitterness in his heart." 00:53:33 Edward Kleinguetl: And I have to remind myself of that frequently. 00:55:35 Marco da Vinha: What you say, Father, reminds me both of St. Nektarios - who carried out penance for his seminarians faults - as well as St. Bartholomew of Braga - who, as an archbishop, would, on occasion, do penance for his priests' sins. 00:57:14 Ambrose Little, OP: There’s also the observation you (Father) have mentioned many times, which is the challenge of clinging to one's own judgment being perhaps one of the most difficult failures in humility to overcome. It’s always worth meditating on the likely possibility that our own judgment may be in error or, at the very least, that our interpretation of another's words and actions may be in error. (Not talking about glaring and established moral failures like the abuse scandals, but the more common criticisms that this or that pastor is not saying what we’d have them say.) 00:58:37 Anthony: Being one who thinks a LOT - thinking and ruminating too much is not healthy. Prayer is where the goodness and healing is (at the very least, it's an emotional outlet to get rid of the thoughts), but the devil's fog machine blinds us to its availability. My parish priest said something in a homily like: we often make our own crosses and they are too heavy; the cross God makes for us is better and easier for us. 01:02:03 Marco da Vinha: @Anthony, I think Dostoevsky put it best in Notes from the Underground when the narrator says "To think too much is a disease." I have found that to be very much the case in my own life 01:09:32 Lee Graham: We are all guilty 01:09:38 Marco da Vinha: Father, is the kind of Confession that the Fathers mention different than the sacrament of Penance as we understand it now in the West? Was this Confession that took place within the elder/disciple relationship? The Fathers tell us to reveal our inner thoughts, our inner wounds in Confession, yet we are brought up in the West with the "just state kind and number" approach to Confession. Many times we don't give the priest much context, and we receive no advice either about our vices, even when the same priest here's our confessions on a regular basis. 01:10:09 Babington (or Babi): It and your comments are very helpful. Thank you. 01:16:00 Bridget McGinley: Father can the evil one enter the confessional and disturb either the priest or the penitent during the confession? 01:19:34 CMoran: Thank you Father! And thank you everyone! 01:19:43 Marco da Vinha: Thank you Father! Goodnight! 01:20:37 Deiren Masterson: Thank you Father! Such a grace!
We continued our reading of Step 4 from the Ladder of Divine Ascent on Obedience and the spirit with which it is practiced. What one begins to see in the writings of the Fathers is that obedience is not slavishness that destroys the personality or the will of the other. It arises out of a relationship; first and foremost the relationship between the Father and the Son that brought about our salvation; wherein Christ through the Spirit of love became obedient even unto death on the cross. Obedience within this world and obedience to one’s spiritual father is rooted in a similar relationship of mutual love. Spiritual father and son must be well disposed to each other in order that what is given and what is received is done so in love. Only then will bear fruit and only then will it bring a kind of invincible joy. To live in obedience is to find freedom; freedom from fear and anxiety, freedom from the darkness that sin brings to us. Through obedience we always have someone to guide us back to the narrow way, one who shows us the light that allows us to move forward. Let us pray through Saint John Climacus that God would cultivate this great virtue within our hearts.
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00:07:47 FrDavid Abernethy: page 83, para 45 00:28:54 Daniel Allen: The blog “Glory to God for all things” had a great article on this titled “saving knowledge and blessed ignorance”. What we don’t know can be more important than what we know, and what we know is much less than we like to think. 00:31:02 Anthony: On one hand, I think he's right. On the other hand, does one have a responsibility to try and share specialized knowledge for guidance to a perceived good or guidance away from a bad thing - but with discretion in how you propose the idea? 00:41:54 Rachel: That is extremely rare but so very beautiful. 00:47:26 Bridget McGinley: How does one reconcile in practice the advice in the Psalms and other Biblical verses like “ It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man” with the virtue of obedience and trust in a confessor/elder? Especially if there have been grave misunderstandings in the past. 00:56:52 Daniel Allen: St. Ambrose to St. Monica: ““God’s time will come,” the bishop reassured her, but she was so persistent he finally urged, “Go now, I beg you. It is not possible that the son of so many tears should perish.”” 00:57:49 Debra: ❤️ 01:04:25 Rachel: lol 01:08:31 Ambrose Little: depends on who the sub is 01:08:41 Debra: 😁 01:11:38 Ren Witter: This is so true! Even in my dreams, I find myself asking: what would my spiritual father think of this or that behavior? It becomes such a deeply established way of thinking. Its really beautiful, and a blessing. Another reason that the habit of exposing one's thoughts to a Father is so good - knowing that you will tell him everything, you become more careful with what you allow yourself to do. Such wise advice
We continued to listen to the Father‘s counsel on avoiding relationships or circumstances that can bring us spiritual harm. Such thought is not guided by a lack of love or charity or hospitality; rather it is rooted in an understanding that we are first to love the Lord our God with all of our mind, soul, heart, and strength. It is only having our love ordered and directed toward Him that our love of the things and and people within the world can be rightly ordered. We were given one example after another of how necessary it is to discern when relationships are drawing us away from God or the ways that the devil can use us through our negligence to harm others spiritually. We don’t engage in the spiritual battle in a state of isolation. Nor do we seek to live the life of virtue simply for ourselves. Love demands that we be attentive to loving God above all things in order that we might draw all toward Christ.
Such simplicity and clarity in the way that one views the world and oneself, creates the purity of heart that is necessary to discern the path and the will of God.
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00:29:57 Anthony: This is how I learned there was something wrong with some Catholic commentators. They left me agitated about the legal aspect of the Faith....am I searching myself well enough, did I do this good enough? etc. Jansenism 00:30:31 Anthony: on the church 00:30:37 Anthony: correcting the Novus ordo 00:30:42 Anthony: noveau telogie 00:32:36 Emma C: Where do we see the line between judging others vs judging their actions to know who to avoid? 00:35:42 Kevin Clay: I think we need to see that we can be that “foolish and thoughtless friend” to ourselves and not just others. We can be unwise, greedy, quarrelsome, arrogant, etc. We need to separate ourselves from our passions and the things that stir the passions. 00:44:37 Rachel: I was wondering about what you just mentioned. About being detached from ego. I was told recently to " Be at peace." in relation to something I did not realize was a distraction. At first, it made me wonder and uncomfortable. Since if I am not at peace, then something of what I spoke of must not be of God. It reminded me instantly of what a holy and wise priest told me. He said, not to speculate over matters. and it was clear, that the only thing needed was to stay in the moment with Our Lord. 00:45:35 Rachel: That these distractions are a result of idle distractions,no matter how good they appear. That God will take care of each moment and situation in His good Providence. 00:50:27 Debra: St. Bonaventure has a beautiful post-Communion prayer https://tinyurl.com/4de5cj7z 00:50:54 Anthony: Thinking of just yourself and God: In "A Man for All Seasons," St. Thomas More tries to break Richard Rich from avarice by telling him of the honor he would have as a mere teacher before God as his audience. Had Richard Rich followed this advice, he would have avoided his moral downfall later on, and maybe even in his saving his soul, much of England would have been spared some of the violence of the 1500s. "Acquire a spirit of peace and thousands around you will be saved." ~ St. Seraphim of Sarov 00:58:18 carolnypaver: If he had just said “no” the people would have wondered if the “brigand” would have been released IF ONLY the Elder had asked. The Elder removed all doubt. 01:03:03 Rachel: I left a comment above about something you addressed. It seems his current reading ties into the discipline it takes to be detached not only from the things of this world but from oneself as well. Since our nous can be darkened, idle curiosities and distractions can wreak havoc in one's own life and those around them. Since the person given to these distractions will act from that skewed vision instead of the pure place of ordering everything to God and His good will alone 01:18:14 Rachel: You mentioned that purity in our day will be like the martyrs, because of the way the world is..in a beautiful homily our priest once gave, he mentioned St. Catherine of Siena. How she felt desperately that our Lord had left her in grave temptations. Yetm he reassured her that not only had he not left her but that she was more pleasing to him. 01:18:40 Rachel: So, it seems that fighting to stay with our Lord wont always feel rosy. 01:19:15 Ambrose Little: Advertising is not like in the old days. Moby Dick was a 900 page advert for the whaling industry. 😄 01:19:19 Anthony: The images themselves are very important in a post-rational environment when the senses and memory are wounded. The Serbian Orthodox Church on YouTube has a 7 part series on the Icon and the contrast of iconic images versus the images that assault us. 01:20:04 Rachel: Thatis a wonderful series 01:22:08 Ren Witter: paypal.me/philokaliaministries 01:23:52 Bridget McGinley: Thank you REn 01:24:41 Daniel Swinington: thank you 01:24:47 Rachel: Thank you! 01:24:48 Ashley Kaschl: Thank you, Father! (And Ren 😎)
Reading the Fathers takes us to the very heart of the gospel and in doing so they pull us out of our comfort zone. Obedience is the true path to freedom. But freedom comes at a cost and perfect freedom comes through self-sacrificing love. It is cruciform. All that we were presented with this evening made it very clear that our life is to be a deep immersion in the Paschal Mystery; that is, a profound dying and rising. We are dying to self and sin and rising to new life in Christ. This is the path to salvation and St. John tells us that to turned away from the obedience of Christ, to turn away from the mortification of reason, judgment and self-will, is to turn away from the Love that has saved us. Every time we receive the Holy Eucharist we say, “Amen”, so be it. We say, “Let this be the reality in my life. Let me be conformed to Christ in self- emptying and obedient love. To hold on to our will, to hold on to our self-centeredness makes it impossible for us both to receive and give love. May God open our eyes that we may see the truth of this and follow the way that Christ has set before us.
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00:06:40 FrDavid Abernethy: page 82 paragraph 39 00:13:01 FrDavid Abernethy: page 82 00:16:04 Fr. Miron Jr.: no 00:31:35 renwitter: I really appreciate that he mentions the manual labor even in this small paragraph about the prison. Helpful to remember that during a time of repentance - of fasting and deep prayer - the Fathers themselves recommended some kind of small work to help the heart along, and allow the stillness to come. Making prayer ropes works great too ;-) 00:32:27 Debra: And you make beautiful prayer ropes
Such a beautiful image is presented to us of the life obedience in a few paragraphs. St. John finds himself wrapped in conversation with one of the elderly fathers. He is asked if he has embraced the life that God has made possible for him. The Holy Spirit has descended upon him with the dew of purity, not unlike that of the blessed Virgin Mary, and the Most High has overshadowed him with patience, the very patience of Christ.
This is the grace that has been given to us all. Thus St. John is asked by the elder if his life is reflective of that reality. Has he bound himself with a towel of obedience, making himself the slave and the servant of the members of his community, willing to embrace every self- abasement? Does he guard his heart strictly and restrain the mind through the ascetical life and by humbling the body? In the midst of all of his work does he maintain stillness of heart? Does he curb his tongue that rages to leap into arguments and unceasingly wrestle with this tyrant? Does he fix his mind to the image of obedience and humility on the Cross, allowing it to shape how he embraces mockery, abuse, and ridicule? Has he cast off his will as though it is a garment of shame? Does he still his mind or let it become overly busy with the concerns of the things of the world? Is he willing to drink derision at every hour in order to protect charity? Is it more valuable for him to preserve love and unity with his brothers than it is to be treated with respect and kindness? Saint John is moved by the old monks exhortation and so gives true honor to blessed obedience.
Do we in our day-to-day life experience the fruit of true obedience, especially when it comes to our worship of God? Are we able to collect all of our thoughts and desires, every movement of the mind and the soul and summon them to cry out to God “O come, let us worship and fall down before Christ, our king and our God.”True obedience leads to true freedom. It gives us the capacity to love and give ourselves in love without impediment.
--- Text of chat during the group: 00:12:01 FrDavid Abernethy: page 79: “Again about the steward” 00:14:16 Bonnie Lewis: Hi Father! It’s still in the 100’s in San Antonio 00:18:48 Mark Cummings: Is that a kalimavkion? 00:26:16 Rachel: LOL!! 00:37:36 Anthony: So does "I think therefore I am" actually open us up to a world of hurt, drowning in speculation and fanciful thoughts, making us prey to demons if we take it as a life or cultural motto? 00:48:06 Rachel: Can you speak about applying this teaching where one's work environment, and the people one works with do not share the same goal or, at least do not act like it? I am thinking of a situation like Blessed Paul Parazzo. 00:48:25 Bridget McGinley: Oh that is a hard saying "curb your tongue" when you work predominately with females. True sacrifice to hold the tongue and not let one's face show emotion. 00:48:41 Rachel: yes! 00:50:49 Rachel: will send a good link 00:51:05 Liz: Sorry, which movie? 00:51:17 iPad (10)maureen: Man Of God 00:51:18 Carol Nypaver: Man of God 00:51:23 Kevin Clay: https://vimeo.com/675624334 00:51:28 Liz: Thank you : )! 00:51:41 iPad (10)maureen: Good luck finding a movie 00:51:49 Kevin Clay: That link is the full movie on Vimeo 00:52:12 Kevin Clay: Free 00:52:18 Edward Kleinguetl: Almost every platform and the DVD is also available. 00:52:22 Liz: Oh wow, great! 00:52:42 Edward Kleinguetl: The icon behind me is St. Nektarios of Aegina. 00:53:32 Rachel: https://youtu.be/1Y9bro7fmyU 00:55:11 Liz: Thanks for sharing! 01:07:22 Bridget McGinley: I am reading the Rule of the Benedictine Oblate. So many of these rules are discussed and explained in there also. It is so beautiful how caring all the disciplines were. There is such a profound love behind them when one knows the theology behind it. 01:10:42 Rachel: St Seraphim of Serov!? 01:12:13 Art: It was in the article: https://pemptousia.com/2016/06/prayer-for-beginners/ 01:15:19 Anthony: His words are literally part of the Trisagion prayer prior to Liturgy. I wonder if the call to bow before Christ our King and God was incorporated because of the importance of this book in spirituality. 01:17:41 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Most folks pray like Puritans - no movement ever~! 01:18:34 Rachel: Thank you Father 01:18:40 CMoran: Thank you so much, Father!
We continued along the central theme of Hypothesis 22 and those that follow - we are to avoid entering into the things of the world and so lose what is most life-giving.
The monk becomes a very powerful example of this danger because in his response to God’s call he leaves everything within the world in order to be wholly given over to God; to trust fully in God’s providence, to pray without ceasing and to embrace a life of modification. It is to embrace the angelic life. In contrast to fallen angels, these men set aside all that is worldly in order to be fixed in mind and body completely on the Kingdom. Their whole life becomes a sacrifice of praise.
To move away from this, becoming immersed once again in the things of this world is to become like a corpse. If one turns away from the source of life and salvation and turns to that which does not endure, then he himself will be reduced to nothing - to ashes. To understand this we have to have the faith to see the love and the life that God has given us in His Son. We must be able to see how precious it is; that it is the pearl of great price that we should be willing to sacrifice all to possess.
Anything less, any different vision of life immediately opens the door for us to seek fulfillment and hope in the things of this world. If we do not value God above all things then we will misdirect that desire which is at the very heart of our being. When this happens we cease to be human beings. We lose sight of our own dignity and the dignity of others. We will become like salt that has lost its saltness, as Jesus describes, and that has no worth.
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00:11:28 FrDavid Abernethy: page 192, 00:35:07 Daniel Allen: Is there a difference between conversing with people and conversing with “worldly” people in this? Specifically, I think of saints meeting with many people every day to give them counsel or just to listen to them? Saints such as St. Seraphim of Sarov or (fictional) the monk Zosimov from the Brothers Karamasov? Is it that they purified their hearts and attained to true humility before then speaking with people? Or again is it that the issue is speaking with people about trivial or frivolous things that dissipate the monk? 00:36:34 Edward Kleinguetl: Those who become spiritual fathers do not seek to become one. Many spend many years (25+) in prayer and solitude before they may be requested to be a spiritual father and confessor. 00:37:24 Edward Kleinguetl: They are well versed in Sacred Scriptures and the writings of the Holy Fathers. They do not share their own opinion. All advice is grounded in Scriptures and the Fathers. 00:45:27 Anthony: On the motions within the heart and relating to other people in wise or unwise interactions. I think we have a mix of ignorance and vice in the interior life that lead us astray. Imagine that your life is like a garden. You planted pepper seeds, but you have never seen pepper seedlings. And, a wild animal enters in and sheds weed seeds and you don't realize it. So, when the seedlings come up, you are not exactly sure what is a pepper and what is not. Sometimes you only gradually come to awareness on what is a good plant and a good fruit and what is not. You look at pictures or have an experienced friend to teach you about the garden. And that year, you miss the mark on a good garden, you get some fruit but not optimal. But, you get experience for the next growing season, if you pay attention and learn from your mistakes. Keep trying, and being patient and prune and weed as you realize you need to. :-) 00:57:36 Bridget McGinley: I think that news came out from the Pope and YES much needed ! 00:58:16 Anthony: Friendship can be like alcohol. Very valuable, but at the right times and in the right quantities. We can misuse friendship to drown out our real needs. 01:03:10 Fr. Miron Kerul-Kmec Jr.: Met. Anthony Bloom - churchianity vs Christianity 01:03:15 Kevin Clay: Churchianity vs. Christianity by Met. Anthony Bloom 01:05:26 Rachel: This reading reminds me of St. Christina the Astonishing. Apparently the stench of the people in the church woke her from a coma so serious she was put into a coffin and the community was attending her funeral. And I think od St. Catherine of Sienna being able to smell the stench of sin in some...this always makes me wonder if I stinketh to others and if so, what can I do to have my prayers rise as incense.. :/ 01:08:06 Carol: white washed tombs 01:12:42 carolnypaver: How do we NOT become “corpses” when we totally withdraw from the people in our lives? Don’t we become “dead” to them? Is that good for their souls? 01:18:03 Daniel Allen: Is it fair to take this one step further and say that the monk or Christian who follows this advice or path, then becomes salt to others who have no salt and become a means of salvation for those around us? A broader and larger connectedness, where the strengthening of one part aids the weaker parts of the body. A call to be salt to the world, and that one isn’t simply seeking a personal salvation but that one would seek to acquire this salt from God for the sake of others as well? 01:18:23 Rachel: Once, on the way to Mass, I ran into a homeless person who was thirsty. The young man was in a wheel chair, and when I tried to approach him, he begged me not to approach him. There was a very strong and unpleasant odor coming from him. I approached anyway and he told me, please, not to touch him or come closer as his legs were being eaten away by maggots. He lifted his gown and it is true, he was being eaten alive. I asked him why, if he wanted to go to the hospital and he declined. Said he had just been kicked out of the hospital. So I asked him if he wants a priest. I will get a priest. He said yes, to pray and he allowed me to give him my scapular as I thought he was close to death by the smell. He wold not allow me to put the scapular on but promised he would. I went to Mass which had already begun. I stopped the first priest I know, and told him what had happened. Asked him to please go see him immediately. He pulled back and told me that priest so and so deals with things like that. While 01:20:13 Rachel: While I cannot judge the priest, this, is an exactly example of letting the moment pass by when we, when I, am called to do something that our Lord asks. 01:20:29 Bridget McGinley: Love the story Rachel thanks for sharing 01:21:22 Rachel: When I went back to check on him, the young man was gone. 01:25:17 Miron Kerul Kmec: Thank you! 01:25:29 Jack: thanks father whats the hat called
We continued our discussion of Step 4 on Obedience. As deeply challenging as St John’s teachings are and as jarring as the examples of monks being tested can be, a light begins to shine through to the dark places of our minds that resist allowing ourselves to be conformed to the obedience of Christ.
Obedience as well as Love is cruciform. It involves a dying to self, self-will, and vanity in order that true meekness, love, and freedom might emerge.
The trials that the monks endured were not something meant to break down their personality or to crush them and throw them into despair. Rather, their shepherd, in imitation of Christ, sought only to purify their hearts and perfect their virtue. They entered into the monastic life with a clear understanding of its asceticism. It is distinctively Christian.
All that they do, every aspect of their life is meant to direct them to Christ and conform them to His image; to let His love bloom within their hearts.
It turns out that the truest and straightest path to freedom is obedience. Our confidence in this reality comes not from our own understanding but from what we see in Christ himself. By being obedient to His Father in love salvation comes to the world.
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00:08:31 FrDavid Abernethy: page 76 para 27 00:09:45 FrDavid Abernethy: about time 00:29:32 Carol: do you see any parallels to this outside of the monastery? 00:35:44 Anthony: Religious persons with office of shepherd who act unjustly, without really caring for souls but being subject to vices, spreads poison to anyone who experienced them, damaging trust for the person to offer in future. Willingness to obey must then carefully be built up - by the person whose trust was damaged. 00:36:25 Art: Just a comment: This calls to mind the soldier attached to country, Corps, comrades, who is prepared to accomplish the mission, even a suicide mission, at the price of his blood. Death before dishonor is a common saying. 00:38:21 Anthony: of compegne 00:44:11 Ren: This teaching is initially very difficult to handle - that is, the idea of someone who is good and fruitful being dishonored for the sake of virtue and, ultimately, for the sake of Christ. However, I believe this is similiar to what you often say about asceticism (how it is accepted in every area of life but the spiritual): Purification by dishonor/humbling is something we accept when it comes to sports, the military, education, elite level performance/fine arts, etc… and in these areas we accept that the dishonor shown to the aspirant is given in order to refine, test, and perfect their dedication and love. The exact same thing is happening here, as Climacus says “A soul attached to the shepherd with love and faith for Christ’s sake.” In the end, that is the only goal of the monk - union with Christ. 00:53:14 Carol: Hebrews 12:6 And this all speaks to the love and providence of God, and the way we are called to respond to suffering. 00:54:40 Ashley Kaschl: I agree with Father. I think we cheapen something when we make it easy to obtain. Two quotes come to mind: “Do not claim to have acquired virtue unless you have suffered affliction, for without affliction virtue has not been tested.” -St. Mark the Ascetic “Nothing in the world is worth having or worth doing unless it means effort, pain, difficulty. I have never in my life envied a human being who led an easy life. I have envied a great many people who led difficult lives and led them well.” -Teddy Roosevelt 00:56:13 Debra: Thanks for sharing those, Ashley 01:00:57 Babington (or Babi): I haven’t understood the issue with that part of the Lord’s Prayer since Jesus was led by the Holy Spirit into the wilderness where He was then tempted, obviously with His Father’s permission, before beginning His public ministry. 01:09:16 Anthony: I just saw a short video of former Mike Tyson telling two young men that the 3 years he spent in prison were the best of his life, because he was given deep peace. One young man challenged him how could this be, when there was a time Tyson earned millions for one fight. Tyson replied that God may give us what we ask for to show us we can't handle what we want. And the Tyson in this video was calm and peaceful, unlike his life as a star, really sounding like a Christian. 01:09:36 Anthony: former boxer - sorry 01:10:57 Ren: “Bless you prison, bless you for being in my life. For there, lying upon the rotting prison straw, I came to realize that the object of life is not prosperity as we are made to believe, but the maturity of the human soul.” 01:11:55 Anthony: Don King? 01:12:32 Ren: The full quote is extraordinary. Something to frame. 01:13:36 Sheila Applegate: This ----> Tyson replied that God may give us what we ask for to show us we can't handle what we want. 01:16:08 Ren: It was granted to me to carry away from my prison years on my bent back, which nearly broke beneath its load, this essential experience: how a human being becomes evil and how good. In the intoxication of youthful successes I had felt myself to be infallible, and I was therefore cruel. In the surfeit of power I was a murderer and an oppressor. In my most evil moments I was convinced that I was doing good, and I was well supplied with systematic arguments. It was only when I lay there on rotting prison straw that I sensed within myself the first stirrings of good. Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either—but right through every human heart—and through all human hearts. . . . That is why I turn back to the years of my imprisonment and say, sometimes to the astonishment of those about me: “Bless you, prison!” I . . . have served enough time there. I nourished my soul there, and I say without hesitation: “Bless you, prison, for having been in my life!” —Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 01:17:17 Babington (or Babi): Thank you! 01:17:26 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father for this important session.
Both an inspiring and challenging section from the Evergetinos this evening! The Fathers speak to us about the monastic life and its clear focus; a clarity that perhaps we have lost in more recent times. The monk lives for God, to seek God, to listen to God, and to pray. This he does as part of the Body of Christ, the Church, for the salvation of others. And yet we are shown how easy it is to cast off that “sweet yoke” of the Lord where He no longer has authority over us. Even a monk would gravitate away from what is described as the “Divine Wheat” that is drenched by the heavy rain of heavenly life bestowing Spirit. We leave peace and converse with God simply to be distracted by fleshly realities. We choose what is of passing and lesser value and let the divine slip through our fingers.
The monks show us that we are to guard the heart; in particular by guarding our words and what we listen to. We must always seek to make our speech edifying, seasoning our words with Divine salt so as to preserve the purity of heart in the others as well as in ourselves. We must not listen to unprofitable words but flee the situation where we are tempted. No one should be so deluded so as to think that we can expose ourselves to angry, hostile, or wicked words and not become wicked ourselves. All such things remain lodged in the memory, imagination and heart. Our relationship with God must be precious in our eyes even if this means avoiding those who are acquisitive or licentious. Rather we must gravitate to the righteous man who through his words and deeds will draw us closer to God.
Do we want to be saved? This is the most powerful question of the night. It is a humbling thing to acknowledge our poverty of spirit and so we can develop a resistance to God’s call to draw close to him. One may not want to be saved or find it too humiliating and so cling to a false self image. May God preserve us from such delusions.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:11:29 FrDavid Abernethy: page 190 00:11:37 FrDavid Abernethy: last paragraph 00:33:50 Anthony: In a way, this is an example of giving up a lesser good (awareness of others, or a form of fellowship) for the benefit of achieving a greater good? 00:36:09 maureencunningham: It seems like the early chuch was aware of demons 00:36:21 Jos: it gets even worse when it's about politics and religion 00:36:31 maureencunningham: It seems the America church has learned to adjust to them 00:36:58 maureencunningham: The early church called them demons 00:39:21 Paul Grazal: You wonder what engagement he had that made him think that. I can think of a few that ive had that i should have avoided 00:40:58 Paul Grazal: Yes Thank You 00:41:38 Rachel Pineda: Tubes of paint... ,and books.. 00:45:54 Anthony: Too much buying and selling and we don't know how to "be" but only to become; thus Americans are great in markets and inventions, but we neglect basic metaphysics about life, and we are now existing as several coexisting lost generations. 00:49:08 Lee Graham: We are entertaining ourselves to death 00:49:36 Carol: books and legos 00:50:41 Anthony: Or "The Great Wall" in 3D 00:57:20 Anthony: St. John of Damascus: "whether I will or not, O Lord, save me - quick, quick - for I perish." Paraphrase from the Melkite Publicans Prayer Book. 00:59:37 maureencunningham: is it like piano it comes with much practice before one can play Bach 01:04:10 Daniel Allen: Like the Pharisee and the publican, the delusion of the holy person vs the truth of the sinner 01:07:51 Anthony: I think it has something to do with an urge which has good roots: "It is not good for man to be alone." This is a good thing, but out of order. 01:09:11 Daniel Allen: The language of God is silence is something I thought about recently and why silence? And because it’s the silence that allows Him to be heard, like the gentle breeze that Elijah heard. He doesn’t replace our voice, He waits to be heard. 01:12:00 Debra: I'm a scheduled Adorer, at my parish. And I really struggle with just sitting in silence. I feel like I should be praying a rosary, or reading about the saints...doing something How can I develop the practice of sitting still? My brain is always racing through stuff 01:14:04 Paul Fifer: I think Holy Hours were set to an Hour because it takes about 20 minutes to quiet our minds and hearts and enter into the Silence. 01:15:11 Debra: Paul: At least 20 minutes 01:16:06 Jos: is it advisable to think about God in the abstract or should we focus on Jesus as God to stay out of delusions in the face of the really mysterious idea of God? 01:20:27 Bridget McGinley: Thank you for that explanation Father. 01:21:04 Anthony: I just finished it. It's amazing, drawing on the Greek fathers so sounds very orthodox 01:22:14 Rachel Pineda: Thank you
Tonight we continued with St. John’s Step on Obedience. We are presented with an image that may be unfamiliar to us. Obedience is not presented as something that is crushing to the human spirit. It can be humiliating - in the sense that it seems to drive out from the soul and the heart all vestige of arrogance, fierceness, and hostility towards others. Yet, what emerges from this exercise of faith is conformity to Christ. When it is rooted in a true love for one’s shepherd, one’s Elder, then a kind of voluntary innocence begins to emerge; a childlike trust in the Elder that prevents a person from speculating about his motives or thinking that he is being driven by xmalice.
When we know that we are being guided by love then we are able to embrace even the most challenging of things. Obedience becomes are very food; something nourishing as it was for Christ himself. When perfected, it can bring about not only personal transformation but the transformation of every relationship that exists within our lives. When we let go of all machinations and all forms of calculation and seek simply to love and give ourselves in love - peace and freedom emerge. We should speak of obedience as something that ultimately brings joy. Indeed, we should see all the virtues as doing exactly that – bringing us into the joy of the kingdom.
--- Text of chat during the group: 00:10:10 Art: In case anyone is interested. 00:10:16 Art: Upcoming online course: THE WAY OF THE PILGRIM: Entering Into the Jesus Prayer Instructor: Very Rev. Stephen Freeman Event Description "Pray without ceasing." —1 Thessalonians 5:17 What is prayer, and how does one learn how to pray? In this talk, journey with Fr. Stephen Freeman and a pilgrim in 19th-century Russia to explore the meaning of prayer in our lives. Event Details https://instituteofcatholicculture.org/events/the-way-of-the-pilgrim Tuesday, August 23 Pre-Class Discussion: 7:30 PM EST Lecture: 8:00 PM EST Registration is required 00:12:03 Fr. Miron Jr.: yep! 00:12:44 FrDavid Abernethy: page 73, para 20 00:31:49 maureencunningham: The task was a lie or was he and Epicepic ? 00:39:55 Anthony: Vocation is seen as a job, matching personal characteristics to charisms of a community of the need to have clergy and religious 00:45:46 Debra: Would he have been allowed to receive Eucharist...attend Mass? 00:46:21 Bridget McGinley: The journey of the spiritual life in such a short paragraph. Beautifully spoken and written. We go through the same journey over a lifetime. 00:47:24 Bridget McGinley: It is easy to see that God should reward us for the little we do instead of being humble and low at the gift. 00:49:33 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you Father. That was going to be my question, that he would be filled with sadness. And yet, his life ended in a joyful death. 00:55:19 Anthony: Is this simple character the "Holy Fool"? Or is that something else? 00:57:24 Ambrose Little, OP: Can you elaborate on "voluntary innocence” in this context? 01:02:20 Ambrose Little, OP: Maybe also it is "take no thought for tomorrow, what you shall eat, or what you shall wear.." That is also a kind of. innocence--simply trusting that God will provide. 01:03:01 Liz: In some Communities, were the Superior (or other brothers) does similar or more humilliating actions out of truly malice, can it also be taken as an instructive tool by the one who is suffering it unjustly, just out of the evil will of another one? Maybe this is also related with the voluntary innocence, without second-guessings. Can this be applied in the secular life? To which extent can we distinguish it from the line of the "human dignity"?.... 01:03:33 Carol: "real joy, which is paradisal innocence and attachment to God through the whole splendor of being alive." Olivier clement 01:08:33 Anthony: The monastic literature refers to beginning in community life before solitary life as the best way to live. Natural law leads to the valuable community of family life. In our day, there are so many single people, by choice or by circumstance, from age 18 or sadly even earlier. Our age appears to be an aberration. Do you have spiritual advice for so many solitaries thrust into solitary life, a period of being neither monastic nor familial? 01:14:44 maureencunningham: Thank You 01:15:36 carolnypaver: Song of Tears? 01:16:57 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father! Great session!! 01:17:04 Liz: Thank you Father!
We picked up this evening with our reading of the very challenging Hypothesis 22: the Fathers’ teaching to avoid the world and worldly relations. However, we must understand that when they speak of the world they speak of those things or relationships that are driven more by the passions than by grace and the love of God.
Central to this is having a rightly ordered love that is focused upon Christ. All things must begin and end with Him and all things are judged in light of the Love of the Kingdom. This Love must become the lens through which we view all things, most especially our own thoughts and desires. What is it - at this moment - that is going to be pleasing to God or fulfill our obedience to our elder? Are we doing things in subtle ways simply to please ourselves; always seeking to form and fashion our own identity and to be the source of meaning for ourselves and our lives?
For a Christian living in the world to “stay in one’s cell“ means to keep watch over my inner self, my own heart. This is why the Fathers put forward as an essential practice unceasing prayer, and particular the Jesus Prayer. It is only by constantly calling out to God that we are given the strength and the grace to love God and to love others in the way He desires for us. We are called to be Christ for one another and so our love and our actions must be Christlike. To be anything otherwise is to strip the gospel of its power to make ourselves unrecognizable as those who have been made sons and daughters of God.
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00:17:12 carolnypaver: Congratulations!🥳 00:18:31 Debra: What are we congratulating? I came in late 00:18:50 carolnypaver: 500 podcasts for Fr. David! 00:19:09 Ambrose Little, OP: remarkable progress. how did we get to p188?? 🙂 00:20:07 Debra: Oh, wow! Thanks Carolyn! 00:32:55 Anthony: Does this mean that even as being a contemplative is a vocation, staying in a city to minister must be a specific vocatiom? 00:59:00 Rachel: I love that song! 01:01:29 Annie Karto: So true about doing more than what God asks, especially in ministry 01:05:15 Erick Chastain: Stop being friends as much as possible with worldly people. It will help everything tremendously. Having done this it helps remove many occasions of sin. 01:10:42 Carol Nypaver: It’s difficult to remember, as parents, that the goal of parenting is not that our children love us but to raise them to be citizens of Heaven, which sometimes causes them to hate us. 01:11:19 Rachel: Thank you Carol! 01:12:04 Erick Chastain: I read it as saying we should flee from the world as much as possible, including worldly people, to protect ourselves from the flaring of the passions 01:13:04 Erick Chastain: but without abandoning our responsibilities if we are not a monk 01:19:59 John White: The author of The Imitation of Christ paraphrased the Roman philosopher/playwright Seneca "As often as I have been among men, I have returned home a lesser man" 01:20:10 Ambrose Little, OP: Challenge to connect with people if we always are trying to be aloof. 01:20:11 iPad (10)maureen: I think the monk you met You spotted Joy, It Joy we give up things 01:23:31 iPad (10)maureen: I say the. Jesus prayer when something I do not like is on TV 01:23:40 Ambrose Little, OP: You could try time boxing. Like “I'll watch an hour with you" or something and/or “just this show on this day" or similar. 01:24:39 Erick Chastain: that's a great suggestion Ambrose! 01:30:13 Annie Karto: What beautiful teaching Fr. Thank you 01:31:32 Daniel Swinington: thank you
We picked up this evening once again with Step 4 on Obedience. John describes it for us as standing before God with a kind of simplicity and humility; truthful living before God and others. When we live in this manner we unburden ourselves and so run a good race without a heavy conscience and also protected from the cunning of the demons who make exacting investigation of our deeds.
After describing obedience and defining it, John then turns to give us beautiful examples of those who lived it in an heroic fashion. In particular, we are told of a thief who seeks admittance to a monastery. Gradually the superior test his obedience through the confession of his sins privately and publicly. The thief does this with profound humility and obedience that is shocking even to Saint John. It is then that he is received into the monastery and given the habit. He overcame the shame of his sin through the shame of bringing all things to light.
St. John goes on to describe the fruit that this bore within the community. They were so formed by the spirit of obedience through their skillful superior and physician of souls, that they began to live the angelic life. Their love and generosity towards each other was unparalleled. They would seek to protect each other’s consciences and also to take each other’s burdens upon themselves.
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00:07:36 FrDavid Abernethy: starting tonight on page 70, paragraph 9 00:41:45 renwitter: Without this type of public, and total confession, is there any way to attain to a similar level of freedom? I feel like so many carry certain sins as secrets from all but their confessor, and maybe spouse. 00:44:14 Fr. Miron Jr.: 1st sunday of Great Lent 00:55:47 renwitter: This also perfectly compliments what we discussed in the Evergetinos on Monday - the simple, very easy way that idle conversation becomes evil conversation, and thus something that needs to be avoided even in the very beginning when it seems really harmless. There is nothing harmless about what is idle. 01:03:28 Ashley Kaschl: It’s not hard since a lot of things die in this heat 😂 01:04:17 Barb Heyrman: I am reminded of a homily on one very hot & humid Sunday. “If you think this is hot…try bell.” 01:07:59 renwitter: I am reminded of my favorite quote from an old cartoon (the context is the Dad of the family dropping his son off for Sunday school). Son: “But Dad, Sunday school is so not cool." Dad: “You know what's not cool Bobby? Hell.” 01:08:32 Ashley Kaschl: 😂😂 01:16:15 Ashley Kaschl: I was on the go earlier, so you don’t have to respond to this, Father. But the public confession of past wrongs in the earlier paragraphs reminds me of the General Judgment. 01:16:19 Ashley Kaschl: And in contemplating that, at first, there’s a real, gripping fear that all will be made clear, nothing will be hidden. Since sin is an absence, an act contrary to reality, that wounds both us and the Body, this type of confession, which we will all endure in the end, can’t NOT be healing and ultimately freeing. But then, in understanding the sacramental life, Who and where I’m made for, and if one has a penitential disposition, it’s less about standing in shame or fear, and more like we would stand before everyone with a deep recognition, humility, and admission for having been who we are not and did not want to be. 01:21:14 Rachel Pineda: Thank you! 01:21:16 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you Father! 01:21:36 Bonnie Lewis: A blessed birthday to you ! 01:21:40 Maple(Hannah) Hong: Thankk you 01:21:43 Rachel Pineda: Happy Birthday! LOL 60 01:21:45 Sheila Applegate: Happy Birthday! 01:22:00 carolnypaver: Birthday Blessings! 01:22:02 kevin: happy Birthday 01:22:05 Maple(Hannah) Hong: Happy Birthday! 01:22:10 Rachel Pineda: The kids still think you are ancient but look young. God bless! Happy Birthday!
We began this evening with the final pages of Hypothesis 21 describing the importance of not opening one’s conscience to an individual unless guided by the Grace of God to do so. It is not a small thing to entrust oneself to the care of another, especially the care of one’s soul. Therefore we are counseled to be discriminating. For the elder that we choose, or rather the elder that God chooses for us, is a gift; a relationship of love and devotion. An Elder does not see himself as detached from our struggles but rather enters into them and takes penance and prayer upon himself for our healing. We do not struggle in isolation. Understanding the importance of this relationship,then, we should pray for our elder and love him.
Moving on to Hypothesis 22 we are warned to avoid meetings with careless men and avoiding anything that would disturb the peace of our heart or the stillness that has been hard won. We must never see idle conversation as insignificant. Rather we must understand that if allow ourselves to be drawn along by such conversations our consciences will coarsen and we will find ourselves engaged in grievous conversations and behaviors.
We are given a wonderful example of an elder who, because of his purity and innocence, finds God responding immediately to his prayers for others. No impediment is placed before the action of God‘s grace in his life or acting through his intercession. We should not be surprised when the Fathers tell us that if we neglect our relationship with God or treat His grace cheaply that our prayers go unanswered.
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00:23:16 B K-LEB: like fr zozima 00:29:29 Ambrose Little, OP: “outraged ... since he did not rely totally on the help of God." Love that. 00:31:10 Anthony: So much for "Grace Alone." One the one hand, all good is from God, all good is a grace. But, we must exercise the faculty of human nature (which is also a gift) to choose the grace, to at least choose a desire for the grace. I think St. Anselm says this in "One Truth" or "On Free Will" 00:32:22 Anthony: "On Truth" 00:39:21 Anthony: In America, we tie sin to things: sugary drinks, alcohol, guns, etc. It is very selective. But traditionally, sin is attached to our deficiencies of soul - and a Puritan look at sin does not take this psychology into account. 00:40:36 Sheila Applegate: Attachment to having life the way we want it? 00:50:10 B K-LEB: i agree anthony 00:50:38 B K-LEB: i personally think the inner spiritual sins are far worse than the physical sins 00:52:02 B K-LEB: i'd rather go to heaven fat and humble than thin and proud, haha 00:53:18 Ren: It would be so good for seminarians to read this particular hypothesis when they study confession. So much meaningful, and practical advice. The way to engage the penitent, the call to enter into repentance with them…all just so good. 00:54:41 B K-LEB: too much theology can make us proud pharisees 00:56:56 Anthony: Copts require new priests to spend 40 days in monastery 00:57:56 Bridget McGinley: The Jesuits used to not be able to listen to women's confessions until they had been a priest for 10 years. 01:02:50 B K-LEB: isn't spiritual pride essentially the worst kind of sin? 01:04:59 Anthony: He gives us a remedy: using the 2nd person plural in the Our Father so we lump ourselves together with all other sinners: "Forgive US OUR trespasses as WE forgive those who trespass against us / Lead US not into temptation but deliver US from evil." 01:20:36 Ren: The warning that idle words quickly become harmful ones is really, really helpful. I have often seen this happen in myself, yet I’ve never heard it explicitly said that the one can so easily lead to the other. It casts a far more serious light on consenting to idle conversation, knowing how easily it leads to something more sinister. So many “little sins” become more sinister when you examine the greater sins that the open the door to. I know that even thinking about addressing this is terrifying for me…but it does make me think about how much idle conversation one is exposed to in television, movies, radio, social media…definitely thought provoking. 01:31:06 Ren: Awesome way to make a discussion of the Fathers topically connected to the holiday :D GO REVOLUTION!! ;-) 01:34:46 B K-LEB: thank u so much
This evening we picked up with Step 4 on Obedience. Saint John puts it before us in an unvarnished fashion. It is hard work. It offers us great freedom; freedom from all of our concerns about the things of the world, daily circumstances, or what others do or say to us. Yet, it is a rough way because it means letting go of our own will, self-judgment and opinion. We freely give these things over to another who becomes our “helmsman”. The helmsman becomes our “nous” - the eye of the heart - while we lack that purity of heart.
One does not choose to live in obedience indiscriminately, Saint John tells us. Rather, we must make sure that we embrace obedience and give our judgment over to one who can truly guide us along the path that leads to the kingdom. Otherwise, Saint John tells us, we should get no profit from our subjection. For this reason we must write the good deeds of our elder on our hearts and constantly remember them. For once we have chosen to live in obedience, either under an elder or within our particular vocation in life and to our particular vows, we are inevitably going to be attacked by the evil one who desires to make us distrust our elder.
Obedience is of the greatest value because in humbling the mind in the body it frees us from all the things that stir the passions within us. Obedience is not meant to be a form of oppression or of infantilizing others. An elder is to embrace his disciple with the greatest love and desire for his well-being. For in the end he will be held responsible for the one God has placed in his care.
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00:11:14 FrDavid Abernethy: page 69 n.4 00:11:19 FrDavid Abernethy: On obedience 00:17:13 Fr. Miron Kerul-Kmec Jr.: I’m young! 00:29:29 Anthony: For what it's worth, here are attorney saints: Augustine, Fidelis Sigmaringen, Thomas More, Aloysius Gonzaga. The only one I think who was led to the spiritual life without trauma was Fidelis of Sigmaringen. There have to be more attorney-saints. 00:30:38 Anthony: Well, St. Thomas More began well but was rarified through trauma 00:40:22 Ambrose Little, OP: sometimes you do. 😄 00:44:54 Anthony: St Seraphim of Sarov: "Headache may be caused by agitated and excessively forced mental activity." Last sentence of Spiritual Instruction #15. Maybe obedience helps us avoid overthinking. 00:49:14 M C: I have found it difficult to find an orthodox spiritual director. 00:53:35 Ambrose Little, OP: Would you think that this guidance applies to, e.g., our bishop and/or the Holy Father? The CCC says we owe religious submission of intellect and will. Makes me wonder about what's going on in the Church these days. 00:58:19 Ambrose Little, OP: Definitely recommend reading the Holy Father's letter on the liturgy published today. Very powerful stuff. (Sorry, gotta run to pick up the younguns. God bless, y'all.) 00:58:59 Art: Desidero Desideravi 01:02:33 Anthony: Book recommendation: "Papacy and Revolution" by EEY Hales. It was the "conservative" (but really liberal because they were so headstrong?) Jansenists who unwittingly had a seminal role in bringing about the French Revolution. 01:04:39 Anthony: i.e. Oliver Cromwell in England 01:13:00 Sam Rodriguez : My first exposure of that teaching “put no trust in yourself” was the Spiritual Combat by Scupoli. Is a core tenet of his, from the earliest pages, if I remember correctly 01:15:46 M C: Thank you! 01:15:53 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father! 01:16:06 Maple(Hannah) Hong: Thank you!
What a beautiful group this evening. Once again we hear a young brother asking questions about transgressing the commands and guidance given by an elder. What we hear over and over again is an emphasis upon the fact that an elder is not disconnected from one in his care. If a person transgresses a command or ignores the guidance of an elder, he is to return to him without fear or with the expectation that his humility will be met with anything but gentleness, tenderness, and further counsel. Of course, this does not mean we fall into neglect or become indifferent about striving to live holy lives. What we find in the Fathers again and again is an emphasis upon the value of repentance; turning to God with humble hearts and receiving a flood of his grace and mercy.
Again the brother asks if one should simply neglect to learn about the spiritual life so as not to be held accountable for particular sins. The elder quickly tells him that such a thought is sinister in that it blocks the path to true healing. Sin brings its own suffering. Repentance is a gift from God that opens up a path to healing and hope. Why would one not want to know the path that God has opened up for us? Why would one not desire the wisdom of the counsel of the fathers in order that they might truly be healed? Furthermore, the elder emphasizes that God values the person of his servants precisely because they imitate Christ himself. They offer advice with intense and warm prayer to God and make their own the sufferings of others crying out to God, “Master save us, we perish.“ Save US! We do not struggle as Christians in isolation but we embrace one another’s struggles as our own.
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00:16:40 David Fraley: Hello to all. 00:16:52 FrDavid Abernethy: page 180 letter K. Hypothesis 21 00:17:17 FrDavid Abernethy: hi Dave 00:17:25 FrDavid Abernethy: where are the snacks?? 00:19:01 maureencunningham: thank you Ren 00:24:58 carolnypaver: What page/section? 00:25:09 renwitter: =Page 181 00:25:16 carolnypaver: TY 00:34:35 Sheila Applegate: I often feel like Sisyphus rolling the rock up the hill only to have it come crashing down. Rinse. Repeat. 00:35:39 Debra: SameWe returned this evening to Step 3 on Exile. St. John concludes by simply telling us that exile - simplifying one’s life - creates a stable character. This is a precious gift and so we must guard our minds and our hearts so that we do not corrupt ourselves by entering once again into what is worldly and disorderly. Saint John concludes Step 3 by taking a moment to speak to us about dreams. A dream involves the minds activity when the body is asleep. The mind, as we know, can be very active; often swept along by the things of day-to-day life or by what rest deep within the unconscious. Saint John warns us that the demons can use our dreams by playing the role of prophet. They convince us that our dreams have deep meaning, they tell us something important about the future, or tell us what is happening in a loved one’s life. Demons can transform themselves into angels of light and lead us into a kind of unholy joy and conceit over what is revealed within our dreams. We can find the demons making sport of us when we so much credence to their interpretation. Therefore, we should distrust our dreams; knowing that like the fantasies in our waking hours they can be used against us in dangerous ways.
We then turned to Step 4 on Obedience. Saint John begins to emphasize its importance for us in the spiritual battle. We are to seek this as one of our most important weapons because it conforms us in a special way to Christ - whose food was to do the will of His heavenly Father. An obedient soul listens deeply to what God and one’s superior is telling him. Obedience protects us from the delusion of our own judgment, opinions and reasons. We do not see all ends and the fact that we ignore this does not go unnoticed by the evil one.
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00:11:12 FrDavid Abernethy: page 66 paragraph 24 00:28:36 Lee Graham: Entertaining our thoughts while awake 00:34:29 Iwona Bednarz-Major: Aquinas says that our imagination can be seen by demons (and good angels, as originally they are both superb intellectual beings), since they are formed in our intelligence. Is that where the spiritual warfare takes place in dreams (logismoi)? 00:39:26 Ryan Schaefer: At Franciscan U a lot of students supposedly had visions. Some students seemed very proud of the fact that they’ve seen angels, seen the future, etc… always seemed like a red flag to me 00:43:56 Bridget McGinley: Little nervous, I don't dream ( at least I don't remember). My soul!?!? 00:46:50 Cindy Moran: ] 00:49:09 Ryan Schaefer: The TORs at Franciscan always told us that we would receive consolations if we are following Gods will. Often they said if we are not following God then we would NOT receive a “spirit of peace”. Is this incorrect? How does this relate to para. 29 00:52:05 Rachel: Everytime I've read this, it has confused me a bit. Since it can be dangerous to speak about the interior life on account of the demons who will try to trick us at every moment, how are we supposed to approach confession and the revealing of thoughts to one's confessor or spiritual director? Even here it seems to me one has to be very discerning and careful. 00:52:10 Rachel: LOL 00:56:29 Ambrose Little, OP: well! 00:56:56 Rachel: Okay, ! That was what I was going to ask about the grace of the Sacrament. But we went on to dreams etc. :) I think when I first became Catholic this witnessing was something that made me pause. Wow, thank you 00:57:04 Iwona Bednarz-Major: Fr. David, continuing my previous thought, I was always thinking that demons can only have an insight into our inner life based on our behavior but lately I've read Aquinas: Summa, First Part, Question 111. The action of the angels on man Article 3. Whether an angel can change man's imagination? with hims stating: “I answer that, Both a good and a bad angel by their own natural power can move the human imagination. " and then explaining further that thought: “An angel changes the imagination, not indeed by the impression of an imaginative form in no way previously received from the senses”, I was perplexed. If you would have any insight on that from your perspective in the future, that would be great. Thank you. 00:58:57 Rachel: Oh, I missed this week's class. 🙃 00:59:47 sue and mark: ok, thank you.. 01:02:43 Iwona Bednarz-Major: thank you 01:18:02 Lee Graham: I totally agree with you 01:20:45 Anthony: Obedience has a very important role in daily work. As craftsman is obedient to the methods of the trade and masters; a government worker is obedient to the law's "you shall" in regard to enforcement - especially when he does not want to enforce the law; a day laborer is obedient to the payor. Obedience is especially essential in a medieval guild system. All life is master-apprentice. 01:22:44 Anthony: mass commodity is modern edicatin 01:22:49 Anthony: education 01:22:59 Ashley Kaschl: Sorry I didn’t type fast enough before but I wanted to touch on what you were saying a paragraph ago about obedience and humility. I think you’ve said before that at the heart of the word ‘Obedience’ is the meaning ‘to hear’, and that humility, being tied to obedience, is prone to silence. I was thinking about something I heard a couple years back from my pastor that the word Silent, is comprised of the same letters which spell the words Listen and Enlist. So it just brought to mind that in humble silence of our prayer we listen (obedience) for His voice so that He can enlist us in the particular task He has set before us, that we might be caught up in God’s purpose. 01:23:54 Carol Nypaver: Wow! 01:27:15 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father...so wonderful to be here! 01:27:17 Sheila Applegate: Thanks again, Father. 01:27:20 Ryan Schaefer: God bless you father thank you! 01:27:21 Art: Thank you Father. Goodnight all. 01:27:21 Miron Kerul Kmec: Thank you
We continued with the incredible counsel of the Fathers about how one discerns when to embrace the advice and counsel of others, specifically one’s Elder. The first distinction made is about advice - counsel that is a part of the spiritual tradition as a whole and so valuable in and of itself. This should be embraced faithfully - for it is given by the goodness and kindness of one’s Elder. When that relationship has grown throughout the course of the years a command may be given by an Elder. This command, however, is only given under specific circumstances; never casually. One must have a kind of clarity and sense of commitment to what is being asked of the Elder. This is to be done by making a prostration, a bodily action and sign of obeisance showing one’s desire to take hold of the command of the Elder. The Elder, then, in an equally concrete fashion must give his blessing. In doing so he takes upon himself the commitment to pray and fast that the one in his care would be able to fulfill the command. We see in all of this the depth of the relationship that must exist between an Elder and the one in his charge. We do not simply expose ourselves to information, reading the writings of the Elders and applying them to our lives. Rather, we enter into a living tradition and it is in and through this relationship between an elder and the one in his care that spiritual growth is made. It is a relationship of love that mirrors the relationship that Christ has with each of us. He calls us to give ourselves to Him and follow Him and in doing so He gives us himself in the most holy Eucharist. The command always holds within it the grace to help us fulfill it.
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00:17:46 FrDavid Abernethy: Anthony Coniaris 00:17:55 FrDavid Abernethy: Beginnners Guide to the Philokalia 01:09:50 Ren: This reminder that the Elder prays for the one whom he counsels is very helpful. I am not sure there is anything more humbling than being prayed for - or fasted for! Knowing that another is investing themselves so deeply on your behalf definitely spurs one on to greater dedication. The gift demands a response. 01:11:26 Ren: Yes. Wow. Imagine that: God himself, in the person of Christ, fasted for each one of us. Spent himself praying for each of us. So very humbling. 01:12:09 Carol Nypaver: Absolutely. 01:20:09 Ren: Just a little PSA for everyone: we have switched our email service to MailChimp. If you did not receive an email in advance of tonight’s group, please check your spam filter, and mark it as not junk. Thank you! 01:21:32 David Fraley: Thanks Fr David! 01:21:47 Debra: The short link, tonight, still triggered a 'Threat Warning' from Avast lol 01:21:58 Ambrose Little: stop using Avast 01:22:20 Fr. Miron Kerul-Kmec Jr.: 2nd experience with baptism! 01:22:28 Eric Williams: Keeping you busy and out of trouble. ;) 01:22:54 Debra: You're making me want to switch to the East lol
We continued our reading of step three on Exile. As with so many things said within the Ladder of Divine Ascent, the words of Saint John are jarring. It is not because John seeks to be abrasive or provocative; rather he is presenting us with the Gospel through the lens of the monastic vocation. It is God who embraced exile in the greatest sense through the incarnation. Christ, out of love for the Father and His will and out of love for us, exiles himself into the depths of humanity and of our sin in order to raise us to new life. Our exile is simply a response to this great gift of love and sacrifice on our behalf. We freely choose to exile ourselves from the things that pulls away from fulfilling the will of God or loving Him unconditionally not because of any hatred for the world or the things of the world. It is the desire for God that guides and shapes our ascetical life and our spiritual disciplines. Outside of the love of God they lack meaning. They are to be a response of humble gratitude for what God has given to us.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:15:53 Cindy Moran: I have no audio 00:22:06 Anthony: I think I finally get your admonishment to read things in context. He can't be talking about withdrawing from a family like St. Basil's 3 generations living in harmony family life and monastic life. 00:34:10 Rachel: Like the ghetto in Sacramento. lol 00:34:29 B K-LEB: this teaching is too hard............ 00:34:35 Erick chastain: moved to texas 00:34:45 Erick chastain: God's country 00:34:45 Daniel Allen: I would add that it starts at home with the family 00:34:53 Bonnie Lewis: Wait a minute. I 00:35:06 Bonnie Lewis: I'm in Texas 00:35:12 Edward Kleinguetl: Welcome to Texas. I live in Houston, although moving to Toronto in six weeks. 00:36:04 Daniel Allen: Can’t flee to a place and expect everything to be somehow better. There isn’t a real chance to run to something if you don’t have it with you first. Like St Seraphim of Sarov, acquire the spirit of peace. 00:37:19 Erick chastain: thanks deacon Ed! 00:37:42 Erick chastain: agreed Daniel. 00:38:21 Joseph Caro: I wonder if this fleeing into the desert (in the literal, monkish, sense) is becoming increasingly next to impossible for our current western civilization without first a radical severance from cell phones, internet, Facebook, etc. And I am wondering if even the secondary more modest type of detachment can be fully done without first tempering our use of media, internet, etc.. . I don't know though, just my first impression. 00:38:21 Erick chastain: I moved to Texas to work at a catholic university and live near the daily latin mass. 00:38:59 Anthony: Joseph - so much data DOES impede contemplation. 00:39:20 B K-LEB: i agree with you Joseph the internet is an endless void 00:39:36 Edward Kleinguetl: Amen! 00:39:58 Carol Nypaver: 👍🏻 Erick and Joseph! 00:40:29 Ambrose Little, OP: The internet has so much to foster our knowledge of the faith and to connect with other faith-filled persons (like this group). It's a tool. Have to use it wisely. 00:41:28 Dayton S: 👆 00:42:08 Art: Good for you Erick. Is it Univ of Dallas? 00:43:29 Erick chastain: I moved to Texas to work at a catholic university and live near the daily latin mass. Guarding my mind and heart from secular people. Reduced temptations to anger and worldly ambition. 00:44:58 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: In our community a small group of us are living a more contemplative life. And it has been a very rocky road. We are not monastic but are called to live the life of our Blessed Mother in the Cenacle. We do 3 hours of adoration and one of them is at 12am for priest. And another sacrifice is not eating meat in the convent. Also doing the full Divine Office. Only time will tell if God will bring us vocations to live this way of life. To try and live a more contemplative life in todays world is a challenge. 00:46:30 Carol Nypaver: Thank you, Sister Mary. May your efforts bear much good fruit! 00:47:20 Ambrose Little, OP: I am reminded of Pope St. John Paul II: Be not afraid! Lead out into the deep. (Duc in altum.) 00:48:04 Anthony: Nassim Nicholas Talib, in "The Bed of Procrustes": Philosophers walk, they do not run. He is an Orthodox Christian who takes the spirit of Orthodoxy into his academic/risk analysis/economic work. He's right. God is not speaking in urgent panic. Be a "lover of wisdom." Walk, and enjoy and contemplate. 00:48:22 Ambrose Little, OP: Lead = duc 00:48:37 iPhone: Chapter 5 of the Letter of Diognetus comes to mind…. Christians are not distinguished from other men by country, language, nor by the customs which they observe. They do not inhabit cities of their own, use a particular way of speaking, nor lead a life marked out by any curiosity. The course of conduct they follow has not been devised by the speculation and deliberation of inquisitive men. The do not, like some, proclaim themselves the advocates of merely human doctrines. Instead, they inhabit both Greek and barbarian cities, however things have fallen to each of them. And it is while following the customs of the natives in clothing, food, and the rest of ordinary life that they display to us their wonderful and admittedly striking way of life. They live in their own countries, but they do so as those who are just passing through. As citizens they participate in everything with others, yet they endure everything as if they were foreigners. Every foreign land is like their homeland to them, and every land… 00:48:42 B K-LEB: he's the one (NNT) i once quoted who said "God provides the cure then he allows the problem" 00:52:11 Ashley Kaschl: Daniel, I love that song! 🔥 00:52:22 Sheila Applegate: Great band. 00:53:12 Daniel Allen: I could listen to that album on repeat haha 01:02:41 Ren: The figure of Abraham is a beautiful fleshing out of what we spoke about a couple of groups ago: that this kind of exile is an exile TO not FROM. The figure of Joseph is one that perhaps illustrates a kind of opposite: an exile from, that God works with in order to effect good - an exile that will, in fact, lead to the slavery of the entire people of God. But Abraham embraces exile for the sake of covenant with God and is thus a far superior example. 01:04:48 Anthony: The book of Jasher has a story that Abraham was one of the few righteous worshippers of God among the people around the Tower of Babel, and God called him away. 01:08:05 Anthony: Christ's exile was also out of love. 01:09:13 Ambrose Little, OP: Gotta run. Family thing. God bless. 01:12:03 B K-LEB: love can be very selfish and manipulative st pope b16 said 01:12:23 Bonnie Lewis: This reminds me of Peter leaving the boat to follow Jesus but his attention was diverted and his faith was weakened, and he began to sink. 01:13:47 Ren: Ooo. So hard 01:16:04 Erick chastain: exile is awesome! 01:16:15 Daniel Allen: Hang in there it only gets more uncomfortable haha 01:16:55 Erick chastain: exile is awesome! 01:17:02 B K-LEB: lol 01:17:37 B K-LEB: i am projecting so much angst on fr. david while reading this, i dont want to hear it@@ 01:18:05 Carol Nypaver: How do we not seem indifferent while “letting go?” 01:19:08 Lee Graham: A greater understanding of to what God is calling you 01:21:11 B K-LEB: jesus himself sweats blood 01:21:32 Erick chastain: holy suffering vs worldly suffering 01:21:57 Lee Graham: Count it all joy 01:22:14 Daniel Allen: I don’t mean to sanitize this, and I don’t think this doesn’t that, but I keep returning to letting go of our own will. The monk being called to the desert had to abandon his will for comfort, family, and familiarity. But every day we have to let go of our own will and embrace noisy kids and a lack of silence, or work that doesn’t fulfill a personal sense of gaining in what has meaning, and time for oneself. My examples obviously more align with having a lot of small children, but I think that (to me) is the letting go of the will that the monk is also doing. 01:23:42 Daniel Allen: Sorry writing stream of conscious isn’t something I’m good at haha. Glad you could make sense of that rambling paragraph 01:24:12 Cathy Murphy: That is the joy of children. You must be in the present moment and only love them 01:26:32 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you Father!! 01:26:37 Iwona Bednarz-Major: Thanks! 01:26:37 Rachel: Thank you Father and everyone 01:26:37 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father...good night! 01:26:47 Art: Thank you father and stay cool Pittsburgh
What a Magnificent group this evening on the Evergetinos. We truly began to see the wisdom of the fathers and how in reality they were the first depth psychologists. They knew the workings of the mind in the heart so well.
This evening we discussed how it is that one listens to a spiritual elder and what they offer as counsel. How is it that we discern the truth when we find ourselves still struggling with the same sins or sorrow or worry? Is the advice of the elder ineffective or is it because of our own disposition or of our changing dispositions over the course of time.
What we find in the section that we looked at this evening is that the fault often lies within ourselves. The human person is a mystery and we struggle with internal contradictions; we can love and hate our sin at the same time. Therefore, we hear the advice of a spiritual elder in many different ways. Sometimes we only hear partial truths. At other times we do not an act on what the elder told us to do. Or quite simply we have lacked faith in God and the power of His Grace. In their “Science of Sciences” the fathers show us how it is that we are to discern and come to know the workings of our heart as well as the action of God‘s Grace.
--- Text of chat during the group: 00:09:41 Eric Williams: I guess you were more of a Soul Train guy, Father ;) 00:11:52 Eric Williams: Exciting! 00:13:00 Eric Williams: Whereas an hour of cheesy hymns feels like an eternity ;) 00:16:58 Tyler Woloshyn: Glory be Forever! 00:26:44 Anthony: Perhaps this story illustrates the peculiar image in Scripture that God hardens hearts, like in Romans Chapter 9? All things for Christ, but God permits to each person temptations or struggles which could be for our good but makes it appear God hates them? Especially when we are previously unmerciful? Or am I off the mark? 00:29:59 Mark Kelly: The ancient Greeks (before XC) said,” Those that the gods wish to bring down (destroy) they first make great. Perhaps, because of the Incarnation, we can say, “Those that GOD wishes to make great, He first brings them low.”
We continued this week with step number 3 on Exile. Saint John takes us deeper into the mystery of what it is to live as a Christian within the world. God calls to the heart and desires that we give our love to Him as he has given his love to us.
Ultimately this is the reason why the monks exiled themselves to the desert. It was not to free themselves from the company of others. Rather they separated themselves from all things in order to become inseparable from Christ. Similarly, in our day-to-day life, we exile ourselves from all those things which would cool our devotion for the Lord. We are careful not to turn back to the things that we are attached to knowing that in doing so we are likely to be drawn back to the things of the world.
This exile is not hatred. It is the desire to let Christ be the one who teaches us what is good for us. We are to let the virtues, the angels and the Saints, the remembrance of death, contrition, be our family and our friends. These are the things that endure and will support us and our journey toward the kingdom.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:28:02 Rachel: Yep 00:30:37 carolnypaver: Page? 00:30:42 Anthony: carpathian plainchant 00:30:45 Ren: 64 00:30:57 carolnypaver: TY 00:32:19 Rachel: I think it is a way of protecting the other as well as one's own heart. It is not just about outright vulgar immodesty. It is about our minding our gaze. Because we long to gaze at the Face of God. To be able, please God, to see as God sees. 00:47:14 Anthony: In section 12, we are dealing with stymied vocations. In section 11, we were warned against being self-appointed saviors of the world. Maybe appointing yourself a savior of the world is like dwelling in the dumps on your sin. The gaze of the person is turned inward on "look at what I can do / look what I did" and that is harmful to the person and to the world. It is God Who _gives_ the vocation and the salvation. The goal of Christian life is a genuine blissful loss of the self-awareness as a branch loses itself in the vine? If he dwells on his fault, he is consumed with canker; if he boasts of himself, he is consumed with worthless woody growth, not fruit. 00:49:14 carolnypaver: “….delivered them up to their doom?” Please explain this part. 00:49:24 Ren: 12 00:51:44 Debra: Just going to the store in June, is indoctrination :/ 00:58:17 Rachel: Yes! 00:58:31 Rachel: Go into your room and pray to God in secret.. 01:00:31 Robyn Greco: Thank you Father 01:06:40 Anthony: This is why living in Catholic community is so helpful; our surrounding "culture" is directly contrary to each of the family members he raises here to our attention. Community reinforcement of Catholic themes is important. 01:16:21 Ren: Though Climacus takes things even farther by assigning familial relations even to the virtues, paragraph 15 reminds me of this writing of St. John Kronstadt: "When you are praying alone, and your spirit is dejected, and you are wearied and oppressed by your loneliness, remember then, as always, that God the Trinity looks upon you with eyes brighter than the sun; also all the angels, your own Guardian Angel, and all the Saints of God. Truly they do; for they are all one in God, and where God is, there are they also. Where the sun is, thither also are directed all its rays." No matter what one’s vocation, it seems a kind of loneliness and isolation in this world is always a part of it, for the Christian, and thus so many of the Fathers give advice seeking out the invisible, heavenly community to combat it. 01:19:36 Ashley Kaschl: I think this detachment is harder than believing that the Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ 😂😬 01:20:06 Ambrose Little, OP: (Sorry, took a while to write, so I got behind the current topic..) In my Dominican circles, we often talk about evangelization. It is absolutely crucial, I think all of us can agree, but there is remarkable disagreement on the best way to go about it. Some folks say that simply “speaking the Truth” is the decisive means to win souls. Others say simple accompaniment. Most know intuitively there is some truth in both, but I find folks keen to argue as if one way is, effectively, the only way, while the other won’t work at all—and they can get quite agitated about it. But it’s a matter of emphasis—different folks have different gifts, and more importantly, we need to be sensitive in each and every situation and listen for the Spirit’s guidance. 01:20:10 Ambrose Little, OP: Folks of “action” pay that lip service, but when pressed, they seem to think we can’t “just” do that. It can’t be “that simple”; they get antsy. Prayer just “isn’t enough.” But I return to the Old Testament—Israel often being a superb type of the individual faith journey. *Every time* Israel (and/or some leader) tried to go on their own, doing what seemed right and wise to them—even with good intentions, it failed, sometimes spectacularly. I see what seems to be _so much_ damage done in the Church and _to our Christian witness_ by folks who just can’t not “let their light shine,” though it seems to me it’s more of that spectacular failing, because they don’t wait on the Spirit. If they did, then we’d see the fruit of the Spirit made manifest. But more often than not, we don’t. Waiting on the Lord in prayer, being silent, living in that “exile,” increasingly seems to me to be the Way. Let action, if it is needed, come from that. 01:20:50 Rachel: That is why I put my hand down all the time! I am so behind. :) 01:21:58 Rachel: That is so true. 01:24:36 Eric Williams: Some people embracing brutal honesty are more interested in the brutality than the honesty. That's why my spider sense tingles and I get anxious when some people pontificate about boldly and loudly proclaiming the Faith to secular society. I think a lot more of us should embrace silent and hidden holiness than should attempt evangelization or apologetics. 01:24:56 Eric Williams: (Sorry. Got behind trying to type on my phone.) 01:25:37 Ambrose Little, OP: Much more concise than me, Eric! 🙂 01:25:40 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father! 01:25:45 Ryan Schaefer: Thank you! 01:25:47 Rachel: Thank you Father! 01:25:49 kevin: thank you!!!! 01:26:02 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you Father! 01:26:26 Rachel: 6 am here 01:26:31 Cathy: Prayers 01:26:34 Rachel: 🙏🏼 01:26:39 Eric Williams: It's not often I'm called concise, Ambrose ;) 01:26:39 carolnypaver: We will, Father. God bless you in your transition. 01:26:46 Sheila Applegate: prayers! 01:27:55 Art: Thank you Father!
We began this evening with Step 3 “On Exile.”The connotation of the word, as we discussed, can lead one to think of punishment or being removed from the things that are needed or loved. However, as we make our way through the step we begin to see that exile is a path to freedom. It is a gradual turning away or separating oneself from the world in order that one might become inseparable from God. At the heart of exile is a deep desire for God; the longing of the heart that leads one to run toward Him as the source of life. The more we begin to see this truth the clearer it becomes to us that we cling to things with a sense of needing them for meaning or purpose. Exile is so important because it removes that illusion. It shows us that so many things that we have had in our lives hold no lasting promise within them. God is to be the beginning and end of all things for us; and exile gives birth to the kind of detachment that allows us to be ever so confident in what He alone can provide.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:14:06 FrDavid Abernethy: page 63, para. #2 00:14:22 David Robles: Dear Father David, Thank you for inviting me to the meeting today. What step and section? 00:14:58 FrDavid Abernethy: page 63 par 2 00:15:02 FrDavid Abernethy: On exile 00:15:21 Robyn Greco: hi , Hope everyone is well 00:15:23 Sheila Applegate: This time the link said it was a malicious link. 00:15:37 Sheila Applegate: But the zoom one works. 00:16:12 Anthony: Do you spray with Copper Sulfate, Vicki? 00:16:14 David Robles: I'm not using your edition. I have the Holy Transfiguration Monastery Edition. 00:16:30 FrDavid Abernethy: Thats the edition we use 00:16:33 FrDavid Abernethy: 2012 00:17:28 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: Greetings too! 00:18:07 Joseph Caro: fr 00:18:13 David Robles: Mine is 1991. Second edition 00:18:16 Fr. Miron Kerul-Kmec Jr.: I don’t like being a boss! Haha 00:18:45 Joseph Caro: I have been meaning to thank you for the little book you sent awhile ago, but I keep forgetting! thank you! 00:19:24 David Robles: Step 4 Obedience starts on page 20. 00:23:43 David Robles: Oh I see Exile. Found it 00:31:27 David Robles: Father, would you agree that the intensity and character of the exile for a lay person, a cenobitic monk or a hermit are different levels? Is there an interior exile that is the same for all? 00:32:29 David Robles: St Isaac the Syrian is pretty radical on this, as it is required of a hermit 00:36:04 Anthony: This keeping the "mind" inseparable from God, is he referring to cogitation, a constant stream of thought, or something else? Is "mind" more like "nous" or heart or merely presence here? I'm thinking it's not cogitation, since that can be exhausting and since the Fathers remind us our imaginations can willingly and unwillingly be the playground of evil. 00:39:25 David Robles: Dianoia is rational discourse 00:39:32 Sam Rodriguez: St Paul often talks about Sin and Death as Dominions. Where there is a Dominion of Sin, a Dominion of Death. Or, in other words, that we are born into a Lordship of Sin, a Lordship of Death, by virtue of Original Sin. And thus, to be "Delivered" as a Christian, represents being transferred from one Kingdom to another. To be transferred to the Kingdom where Jesus is Lord. And Has Dominion over our lives. Where our lives no longer belong to ourselves. Our bodies no longer belong to ourselves. They have been ransomed at a price. And thus, I'm wondering if this language of Exile is a restatement of a Deliverance process. Where its not that those things in our lives are bad, but that they require His Lordship in order for the Goodness of those Created things to be Received and Revealed and Shared. Being intentional about how we use our time. Or our phones. Or approach our relationships. That we are actively inviting Him to continually Conquer our attraction to those things, Exercise His Dominion over them. 00:45:35 Bridget McGinley: I recently came across the book The Way of a Pilgrim. I am memorized by his desire for separating himself from the active world to desperately seek the concept of unceasing prayer yet he does not enter a monastery and wanders the earth mixing with others. Unceasing prayer is a commandment from God, correct? This concept of exile seems unloving to the Eastern societies especially in our country where human contact is considered charitable. When we want to separate even from family and friends because they distract us we are sometimes accused of lacking "charity" but it is well understood in the Orthodox cultures that this is a great gift. I relate to what Robyn just said. 00:49:34 Joseph Caro: the idea of exile (separation) to keep us inseparable to God reminds me of marriage , where one keeps themselves from others in order to be in union with ones spouse. 00:52:27 Sam Rodriguez: Regarding what Father shared earlier, saying that we should perhaps genuflect before a newly-Baptized baby.... there's a beautiful story of St Louis IX, the French King. After one of his babies was Baptized, the Saint is reported to have joyfully picked up his baby and gave the baby a kiss, right where the baby's heart was, and exclaimed "Hello, Jesus!" 01:01:49 Ren: There is an interesting reversal at play here. Normally, when we say someone is exiled, it is exile from something/some place - a banishment from the good, the community, the kingdom - and the place of exile does not matter at all. Here, however, exile is an action taken for the sake of something, and the place of exile - that place in which the soul remains unseparated from God - is the only thing that matters. 01:04:42 Ren: Much the same kind of reversal that turns the barren desert into a place of encounter with Life itself! 01:06:18 Erick chastain: how does exile give place to the demon of sensuality? 01:15:09 Ashley Kaschl: Exile being the mother of detachment makes a lot of sense. While we’ve been talking about exile in a way that it leads to greater intimacy with God, a direct confrontation with the passions, and a renunciation of the world, I learned it the other way around: that, almost by proxy, a choosing of Christ over everything else in the day-to-day life, moment by moment, leads one to be exile by default. Is this the thought of the West, that one winds up in exile through intimacy with Christ, while the East encourages exile to find that intimacy with Christ? 01:18:29 Rachel: YES!! Fantastic points! 01:19:31 Rachel: 🙃 wow 01:20:03 Ashley Kaschl: Great. Thank you, Father! 01:22:47 Anthony: Slavonic. ;) 01:24:08 Ren: Hi baby Orlandi!
We continued in our reading of the Evergetinos hypothesis 20 on the importance of revealing one’s thoughts to an elder. The struggle in the spiritual life entails letting go of embarrassment and shame that often plague us - in order that we might freely acknowledge our sins or the thoughts that lead to them. The revelation of these thoughts must be received by elders with the greatest care and tenderness. It is both the perseverance of the one struggling and the patience of the caregiver, the elder, that brings healing. Over and over again we are presented with stories of those who overcome their fear of shame and in their freedom to acknowledge their sin come to experience freedom from the sin itself. Therefore, the fathers hold up before us humility, truthful living; bringing all that is within the mind and heart into the light of Christ.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:15:01 FrDavid Abernethy: page 165 number 3 00:37:30 Daniel Allen: What page are we on? 00:37:45 Ambrose Little, OP: 167 00:37:53 Daniel Allen: Thank you 00:42:38 Ambrose Little, OP: Seems like it's less a question of whether this or that father is particularly learned, but that God wants us to seek the guidance of others as an expression of humility and so, through that, will guide us. We may or may not get a "wise" answer, but the actual experience of that humility is in itself instructive and the Spirit will teach us through that. 00:55:10 Ambrose Little, OP: accompaniment 😄 01:11:19 Ambrose Little, OP: it says he “mentioned casually, and with no desire for correction” 01:12:08 Ren: Yea, it does say “mentioned casually, and with no desire for correction,” and that he had no “commitment, or agony of soul,” so I think the ways in which the brothers approach the elder are radically different. Not just a difference of physical tears. 01:12:33 Ren: Ditto Ambrose 01:14:03 Rachel: To me, tears of this sort seems to be a source of scandal for some in the west. Where they are questioned and looked upon as hysterics or a lack of humility, or lack of trust in God;s mercy, and absence of the peace of the Holy Spirit. I don't actually believe there is a problem with the theology of holy repentance in the west, but that it is a misinterpretation of the different manifestations of true repentance in the spiritual life. It is an idea of what repentance must look like. And right now, that seems to be a knee jerk stoic reaction to the nihilist culture we find ourselves surrounded by. The focus by some faithful on keeping it together in a stoic like manner can even encourage and foster an irreverent confession at best because if one is caught crying then, it may be viewed with suspicion. I do not mean to criticize but only mean to point out the perception I have encountered ( even in myself) that one must have this stoned faced spiritual life coupled with an alloyed joy we pray against. 01:15:35 Rachel: It makes me wonder, when one realizes, as God reveals Hiimself, to one;s own capacity, that they are a child of God, one would not be able to help but have copious tears of repentance. 01:16:58 Ambrose Little, OP: For a long time I was puzzled by the great saints who would belabor their sinfulness, even with many tears. It sorta came across to me as somehow over the top, maybe too much ("extra” as we say these days). But I think what it is is their greater understanding of the perfect love and goodness of God, the good things God wants to bestow upon us, and how even our lesser imperfections cause us to lose out on the fullness of what God wishes to bless us with. 01:18:10 Eric Williams: I suspect that tears of repentance would be regarded as foreign to a sense of "romanitas". 01:18:39 Rachel: Well, when in Rome. Sigh 01:20:13 Eric Williams: I don't say that approvingly. ;) 01:22:21 Rachel: I just want to point out that when one is truly striving, by the grace of God, even and especially tears are brought before the Lord. I mean to say that one doesn't relish in crocodile tears when one truly desires to please God. 01:23:12 Ed Havrilla Jr.: The woman who wept at the feet of Jesus, washing his feet, was forgiven and freed of her sin. 01:25:01 Miron Kerul Kmec: Thank you! 01:25:01 Rachel: Thank you father and everyone. 01:25:17 Rachel: Yay! 01:25:18 Maple(Hannah) Hong: Thank you!
Superb group tonight! Thank you all so much for the wonderful comments and questions on two very challenging steps.
Synopsis:
We continued this evening reading Step 2 on Detachment and the beginning of Step 3 on Exile. Saint John makes it very clear to us that detachment from the things of this world and seeing ourselves as living in exile are rooted not in a hatred of the world or of others but rather in our desire for the perfect love of Christ.
Our passions draw us back again and again to the sickness of our sin. Even when we have left many things behind we can feel a very tangible pull back to them. Therefore, St. John tells us that we must embrace Christ with an unconditional and absolute love and devotion; as He has given his love unconditionally and without limit.
All things begin and end with love. Our asceticism, all of our disciplines, must be rooted in this love otherwise we will find ourselves isolated from others and from God. Even the monks who embraced the deepest solitude of the desert understood that they did so as part of the body of Christ; that the embrace of deep solitude and silence brought them to a greater intimacy with every other person and allowed them to see the action of God within the world and creation.
The break from the world of which these first three steps speak is meant to allow us to run freely and swiftly toward Christ, our Beloved.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:11:31 Sharon: When I tried to log into the link at the top of the email, it wouldn’t log in saying that you were in session with Evergetinos. The link at the bottom did work, obviously! 00:12:01 Sharon: Obviously because I’m here! That wasn’t meant to be snarky! 00:14:06 Rachel: me too. PC 00:14:29 Bonnie Lewis: I always have to use the bottom link. No biggie 00:14:29 Sheila Applegate: mine did not work. android phone. 00:14:33 Debra: Sharon, I got a warning saying the top link was a Threat! Ooooo So I logged in with the bottom link too 00:14:36 Sheila Applegate: said unavailable. 00:21:01 Debra: Our Diocese 'moved' the Ascension to Sunday ::eyeroll:: 00:21:23 Ashley Kaschl: Same 00:32:36 Sam Rodriguez: I'm reminded here of a quote by then Cardinal Wojtyla: "Freedom is the means, Love is the end." Our culture often confuses our understanding of Freedom by defining it as "freedom to" (do this or that) as opposed to "Freedom from" (Sin and our appetites, etc). And that we lose sight of the fact that our Freedom is brought to Perfection in Love. And that is it's very purpose. The Saints in Heaven still retain their Freedom. They have Freely chosen Love for all Eternity. And therein lies the relationship between this detachment, this Freedom of Heart, and our Call to Love. It seems to me that one could think of Freedom as *the medium* through which Love travels, just as a wave may travel through a medium. If we seek to grow in Love, it seems that, what's needed, is more to clear the way for Love to Move Within us and Through us, precisely by seeking this Freedom of Heart 00:33:50 Josie: wow 00:34:00 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: double wow! 00:36:24 Debra: Who's going to follow ^^that^^ 00:39:44 Anthony: If this life is not for all, but for a comparative few, why is the monastic life presented as "if you want to obey Christ, completely detach and be a monastic?" 00:44:34 Josie: Is it possible that the solitude can lead to a kind of self centeredness perhaps in some kind of people? I understand that the focus on love is the thing that keeps a person safe from the danger, but what is love in this spiritual sense, with very little concrete manifestations (like others to serve or even to forgive) ? Is love in this case a focus on God? Contemplation? 00:44:45 Josie: sorry I hit send by accident 00:51:17 Josie: but it's also not simply a focus on self and becoming "perfect", right? 00:57:10 Anthony: garlic, leeks 00:57:15 Ren: Cucumbers! 01:08:51 Sam Rodriguez: Regarding this, something I've found helpful to try to be grounded in is this: If it's good, God gets the credit. I can only take credit for my mistakes. lol 01:15:40 Anthony: Maybe some of the self will and desire to propose oneself as great in an area is a symptom of a demonic attack on a person's worth - a subtle and constant message "you are worthless. 01:21:09 Ashley Kaschl: If this isn’t very coherent....I’m sorry. 😂 01:21:12 Ashley Kaschl: This reminds me of something in “Imitation of Christ” by Thomas á Kempis. That when we suffer, we should remember that we are “on probation” and that we shouldn’t rely on or place our hope in the world, nor seek to justify ourselves to the world who won’t always understand. I think that Catholics, who are on fire for the Lord or who are firmly in their vocations, run up against the temptation to not be misunderstood by the world, to not offend when teaching the Truth. It’s as if the temptation of vain glory today tries to be popular and holy, which is antithetical to the spiritual life. Anyway, the rest of the quote goes: “It is good for us sometimes to suffer contradiction, to be misjudged by men even though we do well and mean well. These things help us to be humble and shield us from vainglory. When to all outward appearances men give us no credit, when they do not think well of us, then we are more inclined to seek God Who sees our hearts. Therefore, a man ought to root himself so firmly in God that he 01:21:43 Ashley Kaschl: will not need the consolations of men.” 01:22:56 Sam Rodriguez: GREAT points, Ashley 01:26:10 Ambrose Little, OP: There is a flip side of that, too, and I think we have to be careful both ways. We can enjoy being counter-cultural and want to in a sense stick it to the “world” to show just how different we are. In that way, we are risking a kind of pride that we're better and want to show it off by being combative unnecessarily. 01:26:51 Ashley Kaschl: Yes 💯 👆 01:28:10 Rachel: lol 01:29:35 Rachel: Thank you! 01:29:48 Anthony: cookie 01:29:53 Ashley Kaschl: Thank you, Father! Good to see you! 01:30:19 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father...great session! 01:30:20 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you Father David. Happy to have class tonight!
Thanks to everyone who participated in tonight's group on The Evergetinos. As always it is a privilege and joy to sit at the feet of the Fathers with you.
Synopsis:
We continue our reading this evening of Hypothesis 20 on the revealing of one’s thoughts to an elders. Again and again we are taught by the Fathers that this is the path to true healing for us. It is when we keep our thoughts secret, when we hide them, when we lie about them, that the devil gains a greater foothold in our lives. We are warned that God is not mocked for he sees all things and into the depths of the heart. So we are to never lie. In humility, we are to seek forgiveness and to acknowledge our thoughts, our temptations, any concerns, our desires, or even simple thoughts to our elders. When we do this our heart is also open to the Grace and action of God. The moment that we acknowledge the truth is the moment a flood of Grace comes upon us. It is then that the demon is cast out. St Paul tells us: "Take every thought captive and make it obedient to Christ." It is our good fortune to have the Fathers to show us the path by which we can do this.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:12:23 FrDavid Abernethy: The Evergetinos 00:12:47 FrDavid Abernethy: Center for Traditional Orthodox Studies 00:14:18 Fr. Miron Jr.: yes we are 00:14:28 Fr. Miron Jr.: she is tired of me 00:14:49 FrDavid Abernethy: page 163 00:15:05 FrDavid Abernethy: Letter D 00:16:14 Debra: Do we need to re-sign up? 00:16:37 Josie: are we allowed to send father questions outside the group? 00:16:48 FrDavid Abernethy: yes 00:16:49 Ren: Philokalia.link/evergetinos_signup 00:17:02 Ren: Philokalia.link/climacus_signup 00:17:22 Josie: how do we reach you father? which email? 00:17:24 Ren: philokaliaministries@gmail.com 00:17:40 FrDavid Abernethy: dabernethy@gmail.com 00:18:13 Sarah Kerul-Kmec: hahaha 00:24:17 Debra: {Not raising my hand...I was shooing my dog away} 00:37:33 joannedavids: This is enlightening. Very helpful. Thank you, Fr. 00:44:31 Josie: were the fathers able to distinguish between evil thoughts that came from the evil one and those that came from their own thoughts and hearts? if so how? 00:45:12 Ambrose Little: This was before mass marketing. LOL 😄 00:46:54 Josie: thank you 00:53:12 Ren: The thought presented in the second to last sentence - that telling (thoughts) is equal to rejecting - is really fascinating. Also interesting to think about when they are what you might consider “good thoughts.” By sharing them with the Abba you are showing a willingness to submit all - the good and the bad - to the wisdom of an elder. To reject all for the sake of humility, of truth, and obedience. Sometimes even thoughts that seem very good might not be good for you at the time, or might not actually be good at all. 00:54:35 Josie: it's kiind of beautiful that God made it so that our salvation in interlinked with others in so many ways... 01:11:10 joannedavids: “Can’t see the forest for the trees.” 01:20:22 Ren: Links for the groups: 01:20:24 Ren: Philokalia.link/evergetinos_signup Philokalia.link/climacus_signup 01:20:43 Ren: Business email: philokaliaministries@gmail.com 01:20:44 Fr. Miron Jr.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNMONMxs61g&t=3467s Fr. Davids Homily 29min
Text of chat during the group:
00:28:07 Josie: Does the first monk who said that he wanted to trust in God in the solitude of the desert demonstrate to us that God won't save someone who is alone or that this isn't the way that we approach the idea of complete trust in God? The context of my question being the mantra that we should trust only and fully in God and only he can help us. 00:29:51 Josie: So being completely alone isn't a sort of extra trust in God? 00:33:14 Anthony: Even in a non-monastic setting, being alone, outside of accountability to family and community, opens the mind to lots of thoughts or evil suggestions. And a person can be alone in this sense either literally solitary or in a crowd like a college. People can be severely tried when solitary in these senses. There's something in Ecclesiastes that Father quotes, about walking alone, when you fall, who can help? When you are with others they are even a preventative to falling. 00:33:36 Anthony: other people are encouragement to the heart. 00:45:18 Josie: is it weird to reveal our thoughts rather than actions and sins in the confessional? 00:45:33 Anthony: On a theological or social-theological note, this destructive sense of obedience - as I understand it, comes from Jansenism. A Catholic Calvinism...and Calvinism focused for some reason on God's election, no place for a free love, it seems to me. 00:48:21 Ren: It is so powerful to compare the image of one who commands obedience put forward by Christ - a shepherd whose voice is followed, who carries those who are not strong enough to walk; one who stands in the midst of their followers as one who serves - to what you put forward just now - a hammer who drives others into a exact place by sheer force. Wow. Really amazing to reflect on. 00:53:45 Forrest Cavalier: μεγάλε 00:56:45 Ren: Satan - the relentless bartender :-D 00:57:42 Tyler Woloshyn: Reminds of the classic cartoon villain who keeps getting foiled by the virtuous protagonist. 01:04:29 Ren: I love this story so much. One of my favorites in the book so far. 01:04:40 Josie: me too 01:04:45 Ashley Kaschl: Same. It’s so good. 01:06:00 Josie: father does fasting help with the psychological temptations or only physical temptations of the body? hope this q makes sense 01:09:40 Tyler Woloshyn: We know that these texts were written in a different technological era. Fasting seems to become more of a battle today for lay, clergy, and monastic alike given technology. Temptations and challenges to fasts can be magnified even more now then they were in the age of the Fathers. The devil does not need to walk down the road here, he can be at the tip of one's fingers with screen time. 01:10:37 Josie: someone said on Twitter "the Lord gives the solution then he allows the problem" 01:12:11 Josie: he was quoting a Rabbi i think, and was talking about the internet 01:12:46 Anthony: I think what matters is what flask you drink from - or don't. Since 2018, the Catholic news has been consumed with obkective wrongs, which exist, but can become consumptive: 2018-2019: sex scandal. 2019, Pachademon in Vatican. 2020-2022, election , Great Reset and covid. 2022, Ukraine. The imbalance and fixation is real but can be a poison to imbibe and gets in the way of classic spiritual food and drink. But maybe we can turn this to our good 01:14:26 Anthony: and being one oriented to fixing social problems, this negative world tone affected my spiritual life. 01:17:06 Rachel: lol 01:17:55 keynote: Thank you Fr.!! 01:18:02 Josie: thank you father 01:18:07 Rachel: Thank you! 01:18:15 Tyler Woloshyn: Good night and God bless! 01:18:21 Sheila Applegate: Thank you!
One of the participants in tonight‘s group on the "Ladder of Divine Ascent" described St. John’s teaching on Detachment as a “mic drop moment.” The psychological insight and the understanding of the fickleness of the human mind and the wiles of the ego are presented to us in such an unvarnished fashion that there is no denying the truth of them.
Yet – there is something in this that is incredibly uplifting to the human heart. The truth though difficult to hear and even more difficult to embrace is liberating and offers freedom. To have a first taste of this in these paragraphs on Detachment is something wonderful. We begin to see that the monks were leaving behind everything within the world not because they hated the world or hated others; but because they were drawn there by He who is infinite and absolute Love. Within the human heart is an urgent longing for what God alone can offer. In Him we come to see the meaning of our own lives and who we are. We step into Reality. And even though this may be very difficult and even though we may want to avoid it more often than not, if we allow ourselves to be drawn by the Lord, allow Him to take us by the hand and lead us into the truth of His Life and the reality of His Love - what an indescribable joy comes over the mind and heart.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:02:28 Lita's iPhone: Happy to be joining you all! I’m nursing my newborn so I’ll be without video 😊 00:02:37 FrDavid Abernethy, CO: welcome! 00:03:04 Ashley Kaschl: LITA! 🙌🏻 00:05:26 Robyn Greco: hi Father, Hi everyone 00:08:34 Carol Nypaver: May the fourth be with you! 00:25:49 Joseph Caro: The nuns in the movie Sister Act might have profited from a reading of Climacus! 00:30:20 Ren: I am particularly moved by the insight at the end of the last paragraph, which states that we can be tempted to disparage those in the world in order to avoid despair. Fascinating that, not possessing the faith and love necessary to find value in our life in Christ, we can turn to disparagement of others in an attempt to build ourselves up. I feel this happens a lot in our day. 00:33:58 Josie: so this is why the "why" behind detachment is so important.. 00:35:11 Sam Rodriguez: Some phrases here that come to mind are "I must decrease so that Jesus may increase." Or that "It is not I who live but Christ who lives within me." That we are emptying ourselves of self, yes, but we are emptying ourselves unto the Fullness of Him. And thus, if He Within us, while Living Through us, Calls us out into the world for a Mission, then that's radically different from the Enemy shaming us for not following Him the way the Enemy says that we should, during an attack. Because, if rightfully lived, it is He Who Is Stepping into the world, through our Yes to Him. Our Yes to Him Continuing His Incarnation Through our Yes, even if it will inevitably be within the context of our own personal brokenness. Could be in the Desert. Or the "Desert" of the city. Or in the concrete realities of a Present Moment, where there is a Call to Radical Love, whatever that Moment, that Call might look like. It belongs to Him, not us. Just as *we* belong to Him, not ourselves. 00:46:23 Robyn Greco: ouch 00:49:40 Debra: What?! You mean monastic life isn't all incense and Gregorian chant...gardening, and making coffee, and beer? 00:49:53 Ashley Kaschl: 😂😂 00:50:50 Robyn Greco: wow...6 is what those of us today would call a mic drop moment. no beating around the bush and ever so true 00:54:44 Carol: can't help comparing this to the adoration and attention an expectant mother receives vs. the relentless hidden self-sacrifice of new parenthood 01:03:09 Lilly: One should be very mindful of their inner struggles and not enter monastic life to ‘escape’ 01:04:26 Anthony: "Monastic" and "curmudgeon" are two distinct and different modes of life. 01:10:39 Robyn Greco: lol 01:11:30 Robyn Greco: You Father? a curmudgeon? I don't believe it.....🤣 01:11:42 Debra: 😆 01:12:26 Erick chastain: honestly I seem curmudgeonly when everyone around me is saying obscene things and I have to tell them that they are doing wrong. 01:13:07 Robyn Greco: I have to go, dog needs her insulin shot. Thank you Father, see you all next week 01:14:37 Lita's iPhone: Thank you! 01:14:44 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!! 01:15:05 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you Father!! 01:15:06 Josie: thank you
The wisdom of the Fathers and the essential and fundamental elements of the spiritual life that they present us with is valuable beyond expression. Whether novices in the spiritual life or having struggled for many years, one is given a precious gift in reading the Evergetinos!
Synopsis:
We picked up once again this evening with Hypothesis 20 on heeding the advice of the elders and the importance of revealing one’s thoughts without embarrassment or shame. How beautiful it is when an elder has such compassion and love (as well as patience) to help those in his charge to set before God all of their thoughts and sins. What a blessing it is when you have one who is willing to wait even years, assisting you in the spiritual life, helping you to trust ever more fully in the power of grace and in the depths of God’s mercy. The Evil One seeks to do nothing but undermine this trust in God and in one’s elder. Even when we are tortured by our sins or our thoughts and temptations we often remain silent; because the evil one convinces us how shameful such thoughts might be. The closer we get to speaking them the more he seeks to make us question the value of doing so. The father’s counsel on this is incredibly valuable. It reveals to us the wisdom of God and how it overcomes the cunning of the Evil One.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:18:25 Josie: When we have thoughts that we don't identify with the “inner self” or “inner man” but rather as false self, are we meant to 1) engage them in order to dismantle them at the root and deal with what part of us causes or wants to believe them, OR alternatively 2) do we simply ignore them/reject them as false and just re-center ourselves? 00:21:25 Tyler Woloshyn: This brings to mind the Psalmist when he speaks about in Psalm 136 (LXX) to deal with those sins, passions, vices by dashing them against the rock. To dash them against the Rock of Christ early on rather than much later. 00:23:27 Tyler Woloshyn: (I know it is a controversial psalm, but blessed are the monastics for explaining the meaning behind that psalm.) 00:34:15 Tyler Woloshyn: This story is very interesting when someone is held by passions, but how can one relate to those to struggle with scrupulosity in their confession? 00:45:04 Josie: it's ok you answered thank u 00:49:17 iPad (10)maureen: Is it much like Doctor ? You can have a cancer and not Know it. 00:49:49 iPad (10)maureen: The earlier one find a hidden illness you can recover. 00:52:55 Rachel: I can top that but in my humility will refrain 00:56:09 Anthony: These elders - are they experienced, mature Christians, or is Elder in these stories here the equivalent or presbyteros or sacerdotale - a priest? 00:57:01 Forrest Cavalier: The greek is Ό Γέρων 00:57:13 Forrest Cavalier: The old/wise one. 00:57:17 Anthony: Thanks, Forrest 00:57:18 Ambrose Little, OP: That’s Greek to me. 00:57:19 Anthony: James 00:58:56 Anthony: Liberty University in the early 200's encouraged accountability partners and each dormitory hall had a supposedly mature student to be a spiritual leader 00:59:04 Anthony: 2000s 01:01:06 Rachel: I bought that book but have not read it! 01:01:29 iPad (10)maureen: Name of the book ? 01:01:29 Josie: me 2 01:01:41 Ren: A question about confession: In a situation where a certain sin has really taken root, and one finds it difficult even to resolve to try and amend one’s behavior, perhaps even resistant to change, what recourse does one have? The thought comes to my mind that is is sacrilegious to go to confession not hoping or firmly intending to change, but it you can’t go to confession, what can you do? Are you just a lost cause? 01:02:49 Debra: Wouldn't going to confession provide the graces to help make that change? 01:04:10 Lilly: Orthodox Psychotherapy -author? 01:04:36 Anthony: Ren, I think Nietzsche actually has an important thing to say here - exert the will - not to power, but for our good. ;) 01:04:51 Sawyer: Confessing that lack of desire to change can sometimes bring great grace in itself. 01:07:14 Anthony: Lilly: https://store.ancientfaith.com/orthodox-psychotherapy 01:07:29 Lilly: Thank you 01:08:50 Forrest Cavalier: Psalm 22 01:09:05 Forrest Cavalier: My God why have you abandoned me 01:10:30 Anthony: Well FOrrest threw it out in a Cavalier manner. ;^) 01:11:10 Josie: seems God is always several steps ahead of us and there is always some level of darkness in the spiritual ;ife i think.. 01:13:50 Ambrose Little, OP: Glad you became yourself again.
In our reading of the Evergetinos, we picked up with Hypothesis 20 “On Obedience and Listening to the Advice of Elders.” We are presented with the story of one monk, Iakovos, who was filled with impertinence and sought to place himself above others as a spiritual guide; this despite his lacking the fruit or obedience in his own life. The darkness and the trials of this monk grow deeper and deeper. The more resistant that he is to the guidance of others the more that the spirit of darkness takes hold of him. Then, in his moment of greatest weakness, the Enemy attacks him in such a way that he is overcome with a flood sinful thoughts. Taking matters into his own hands, rather than humbling himself before his Elder or before God, he mutilates himself. It is only the meekness and the compassion of the Elder that aids this monk in his darkness. Saint Savvas was able to apply a healing balm on every occasion of disobedience. Over and over again he applies the necessary remedy and offers intercession on behalf of his spiritual child.
The vivid imagery in this Hypothesis is meant to draw us into a deeper and more rich understanding of obedience and its importance for the spiritual life. Our willfulness can run so deep that we find ourselves wrapped in delusion. Left to ourselves we are capable of the worst. We can betray ourselves as well as God. May God in His mercy guide us along the path of repentance and give us the grace and healing of obedience.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:04:55 Mark: Some snow later tonight in MN 00:08:33 Lilly: Hello Fr. Blessed to be back! Happy Easter everyone! 00:17:31 Tyler Woloshyn: This kind of reminds me of the career centric mentality that Pope Francis have warned clergy against. Clergy trying to obtain monsignor or mitred archpriest status. 00:35:44 Anthony: When you take aptitude tests, clergy is considered just another job for people who like to help people. But a religious vocation is different than a career. 00:41:14 Forrest Cavalier: He cried out to his neighbors too late. 00:42:20 Ren: Is Iakovos’ failure to reveal the thoughts to an elder, and his extreme action, another manifestation of arrogance? 00:43:54 Tyler Woloshyn: It seems very relevant as it shows what happens in those instances where people who say need accountability partners if you will do not have the courage to admit their weakness and seek help. 00:45:06 Josie: For our own days, is it advisable to admit these kinds of things in the confessional? (Even if sometimes this isn't exactly a confession of a sin but thoughts/temptations) 00:45:13 Anthony: Is the finalty of the mutilation the problem? Other saints ran into thickets to hurt their bodies, and they are saints. 00:45:42 Forrest Cavalier: You quoted St. Philip Neri in the past: "In the warfare of the flesh, only cowards gain the victory; that is to say, those who fly." 00:46:41 Tyler Woloshyn: "Fly you fools." Gandalf. 00:47:28 Debra: Tyler, you are not the only 'nerd' lol 00:47:36 Ren: The nerds: Tyler, and everyone who got the joke :-D 00:48:48 Tyler Woloshyn: Glad that we are in good company. :) 00:50:34 Tyler Woloshyn: Post-Lenten shout out to the Life of St. Mary of Egypt. 00:50:38 Anthony: OK, is our goal then to walk about in life with a serene sould, and not be bothered by any temptation of body or mind, not distressing ourselves, but letting it pass? 00:54:07 Forrest Cavalier: There is a connection to obedience mentioned in this story: he did not obey the monastic rule against self mutilation. 01:05:05 Ren: On the topic of penance, I find that penance, among other things, is valuable in revealing that extent to which a true spirit of repentance as been fostered in the heart. When I embrace my penance and perform it soon after confession I am eager to apply spiritual medicine to my soul. Often, however, I am reluctant to accept penance, anxious about what the priest will give me, and am slow in performing it. Then, it is revealed to me that the spirit of repentance really hasn’t been fostered well in my heart 01:06:42 Forrest Cavalier: The consequences in this story were more lenient than the Old Testament law: Num 15:30-31 But anyone who acts defiantly,e whether a native or an alien, reviles the LORD, and shall be cut off from among the people. For having despised the word of the LORD and broken his commandment, he must be cut off entirely and bear the punishment. Dt 18:20 But if a prophet presumes to speak a word in my namel that I have not commanded, or speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die. 01:08:38 Tyler Woloshyn: I felt the part where St. Savvas mentioned to Iavokos that if he could not manage a pot of beans he could not manager a monastery. It is simple yet very enlightening. God gives us so many graces and gifts, yet at times I know where I can do much better and not looking to throw out those pot of beans when frustration over life goals or discernment does not work out immediately. Humility is a very wonderful thing. Even the smallest of actions can be teaching moments. 01:10:36 Debra: If you can't do the time, don't do the crime 01:10:50 Carol Nypaver: 👍🏻 01:12:42 Ren: Iakovos does seem like a bit of a hopeless case. I wonder if his quick death after this last act of repentance was not an act of mercy on the part of the Lord. Take him out before he can screw up again 01:14:24 Tyler Woloshyn: Will never look at a pot of beans in the same way. Will think of St. Savvas from now on. Especially going through a discernment process. 01:14:59 Anthony: I'd like to see us Catholics build on the theme of St. John Damascene, repentence is turning away from unnatural living and towards the life God intended for us. That is a kind of repentence that I could more easily understand, instead of the "afflict yourself" meaning that is perennially popular among Catholics in different rites. 01:16:50 Erick Chastain: "but I chastise my body, and bring it into subjection" 1 cor 9:27 01:19:35 Ashley Kaschl: It’s kinda long. Sorry 😂 I have thoughts. 01:19:38 Ashley Kaschl: Some of these holes Iakovos has dug himself, even to the severity of mutilating himself and being cast out of his community, are reminding me of the reflections of St. Bernard of Clairvaux on the Song of Songs, specifically the kisses prior to “let him kiss me with the kiss of his lips”, which to the angels and Saints seems to be an offensive desire. Like Iakovos wanting for more than he is currently trustworthy of. It is for this reason that St. Bernard goes into the prior kisses: namely the kiss of the feet of Christ. That Iakovos would have to humble himself under the instruction of Savvas, and return to the feet of Christ to kiss His wounds for the realization of the cost of his sins, and then extend his arm up, that Christ might draw him upwards so that he could eventually kiss his hands, entering into the life of virtue and friendship with Christ, hence the fruit of reparation. 01:24:15 Rachel: Thank you 01:24:38 Tyler Woloshyn: Good night everyone. God bless!
Thank you one and all who participated in tonight's group. Your comments brought to life the already powerful writing of St. John Climacus in an extraordinary way!
Synopsis:
This evening we read the final four paragraphs of Step One of the Ladder “On the renunciation of the world.” Climacus emphasizes the importance of letting the beginning of the spiritual life be good and strong so that the end of our lives may correspond to the start. To begin well is to end well. Thus, we want to begin the spiritual life with zeal and fervor for the Lord and without a fear of mortifying the flesh or depriving oneself. Lack of courage can mask itself as prudence and so prevent us from engaging in the ascetical life. As one Saint said, “Heaven is not for cowards.“ We are engaged in a spiritual battle and we wage war against principalities and powers who are relentless and seeking to undermine our efforts. Our determination then, to serve Christ, must be unambiguous. Whatever state we find ourselves in we must zealously pursue God and His love. All are called holiness and while we must be discerning about the path forward that we take we must clearly understand that we must invest ourselves more and more each day.
St John also emphasizes the importance of community. There are certain dangers in traveling the spiritual path alone. If one falls - there is no one around who will pick him up out of despondency. In this regard, St.John refers to the Lord's teaching: “For where two or three are gathered in My name, there I am in the midst of them.”
St. John concludes by asking one question: “Who is the faithful and wise (monk) person?” It is he who has kept fervor unabated until the end of his life and has not ceased daily to add fire to fire, fervor to fervor, zeal to zeal, love to love. It is such a beautiful way to end the first step on renunciation. What we renounce we renounce for one purpose - to free us in order to love God unimpeded.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:08:40 Robyn Greco: Hi Father, Hi everyone. Hope everyone is well this evenng 00:08:52 FrDavid Abernethy, CO: hello Robyn 00:12:53 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: Happy Easter -- Great to be here -- Alleluia 00:13:17 Rachel: Happy Easter! 00:19:33 Anthony: In my opinion, only great love can motivate a person to do what is repugnant - self sacrifice, or even a Cross. So maybe Love can overcome spiritual sloth. You need to find the love, though. It must be almost tangible, more tangible than self-love or false prudence. 00:22:22 Robyn Greco: 2 small meals and one regular meal, is that really a fast though? it doesn't seem to be 00:24:21 Ren: This is why we should never resent those who enter the vineyard at the ninth hour, so to speak. There are so many great things to be gained by spending one’s youth, and whole life, laboring for Christ. 00:25:55 Debra: What was that book/author again? 00:26:38 Ren: Adalbert de Vogue 00:26:42 Eric Williams: A point worth considering: hundreds of years ago, it was normal to go to bed shortly after sunset, sleep 3 hours or so, get up for maybe an hour, and sleep again for 3 hrs or so. Humans haven't had biphasic sleep since the invention of electric light. Vigils seem less extreme when viewed in light of biphasic sleep. 00:26:49 Robyn Greco: Does St John have any of these spiritual actions for those who are not well in body or does he not get into that? Thank You 00:27:01 Debra: Thank you, Ren 00:28:11 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Benefits of fasting for the spiritual life: 00:29:07 Andreea and Anthony: I have always been troubled by devotions to saints that self-mutilate and that is exalted as proof of their holiness. Example St. Rose of Lima, a saint from my birth city. What you said about having the right balance between disciplining the body and torturing the body struck a chord with me. What are we to make of these saints? 00:31:09 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: We recognize that everything comes as a gift; Fasting purifies our eating; Fasting calls us to hunger for the Lord; Fasting deepens our sense of hope and expectation; Fasting stirs our repentance and compunction; Fasting controls our desires; Fasting intensifies our prayer. 00:35:15 Eric Williams: "Do not test the Lord, your God." Taking up extreme practices willy-nilly is testing God - a temptation for which Jesus demonstrated refusal. 00:35:50 Sam Rodriguez: Father, you made the distinction between mortifying the bodily passions and spiritual passions. St. John of the Cross represents that division as a progression. For example, in Ascent of Mount Carmel, it's a movement from the "Night of the Senses" (which is more bodily & our sensory engagement) to the Night of the Soul (leading to growth in Faith), then Night of the Memory (growth in Hope) and then Night of the Will (growth in Charity) as a culminating moment to the Journey. Similarly the first 8 chapters of Dark Night of the Soul is concerned specifically with the "spiritual" versions of the Seven Deadly Sins. Which presumably is for those who, if I'm not mistaken, have already passed through the Night of the Senses. If I'm wrong in giving this account, please correct me. But I'm curious whether St. John Climacus and other Desert Fathers would see this "progressive" approach as overstated--that it must all be addressed simultaneously and whether the same would apply for pursuit of the Theological Virtues. 00:37:43 Rachel: And Theresa of Avila! Among others.. 00:38:17 Andreea and Anthony: Btw, what page/paragraph are we on? 00:38:31 Ren: Page 59. Paragraph 25 00:38:37 Andreea and Anthony: Thanks! 00:38:49 Rachel: Thank you Sr. Barbara 00:44:36 Ambrose Little: But he's gonna keep sayin it. 😄 00:45:12 carolediclaudio: 😊 00:46:06 Eric Williams: As I said above, vigils were less eye-popping for people - even children - when humans engaged in biphasic sleep (before electric light). 00:46:38 Robyn Greco: Biphasic sleep? 00:46:58 Debra: Robyn....Two distinct sleep periods per night 00:47:07 Robyn Greco: Thank you 00:48:56 Debra: CCD in the 70s...just be kind to each other 00:49:19 Sean: And make a felt banner 00:49:25 Robyn Greco: Do you think that's why we don't really have many saints today? 00:49:50 Debra: Sean...I'm feeling attacked LOL 00:50:10 Robyn Greco: You are a rare breed these days Father. Thankful for you 00:50:18 carolediclaudio: What page? 00:50:35 Carol Nypaver: 59 00:50:45 carolediclaudio: Thanks Carol! 00:51:00 Carol Nypaver: 😍 00:52:16 Ambrose Little: It takes time for canonizations to happen, usually. There are very many processes in progress—the Vatican office that handles this has more than it can handle, and quite regular canonizations of folks even in the last 60 years. And that's just the recognized ones. 00:53:20 Vicki Nichols: Bl. Jerzy Popiełuszko, was martyred in 1984 00:54:00 Debra: Carlos Acutis was beatified in the 2000s 00:55:30 Art: Messenger of the Truth. Great film on Fr. Jerzy P.!! 00:56:38 Vicki Nichols: yes it is a good film! 00:57:27 Robyn Greco: sadly, today, there are a lot of us left alone in our spiritual walk, we are parched In the desert 00:57:51 Anthony: St. Maximos Skete, Palmyra / Fluvanna County, VA. 01:01:07 Andreea and Anthony: What is meant by this? It sounds like relying on emotions, which are passing. Many times the fire and fervor are just not felt. 01:02:59 Bonnie Lewis: And we must do this each and every day. upon awakening. 01:03:54 Ren: I don’t understand the second to last sentence in paragraph 24. “For you will scarcely find anyone…who is determined to mortify his flesh, although he might deprive himself of many pleasant dishes”? Could you explain this a little more? How is this form of deprivation not a good example of mortification? 01:07:20 Debra: Do you need a spiritual director to do a daily fast? 01:07:26 Debra: oops 01:09:16 Art: To Love Fasting downloadable PDF https://archive.org/details/tolovefasting 01:09:40 Carol Nypaver: Thank you, Art! 01:10:06 Debra: Great discussion, I need to go....parish council...blergh Bye! 01:10:44 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: Thank you for the link Art. 01:10:57 Anthony: Yet, food is art. It is true, good and beautiful - there is a natural law associated with food. We don't whitewash walls like Puritans do (well, perhaps Carthusians do) but we have and celebrate iconography. Judicious use of God's gifts within mortification is important. Beautiful material art can degenerate to kitsch; beautiful food can degenerate to sumptuousness. But, we LOVE icons and we LOVE food, both made and appreciated judiciously, per natural law and spiritual law. 01:11:18 Art: YW sister! 01:12:24 Anthony: Thanks, Father. :^) 01:14:01 Ren: Norway 01:14:15 Ren: Best. Movie. Ever 01:14:25 Sam Rodriguez: SUCH a great movie 01:14:32 Bonnie Lewis: I just watched the movie last week. It's a beautiful movie. 01:14:49 Robyn Greco: Whats the name of the movie again? Thank You 01:14:56 Bonnie Lewis: It brought them a love for one another. 01:14:57 Ren: Babette’s Feast 01:15:03 Robyn Greco: Thank you Ren 01:15:06 Anthony: I would LOVE this movie. Food is a gift we can give to others. 01:15:31 Ren: ““Stand on the edge of the abyss and when you feel that it is beyond your strength, break off and have a cup of tea.” - Fr. Sophrony 01:16:22 Cindy Moran: Great session Fr Abernathy 01:16:25 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you!!! 01:16:42 Mitchell Hunt: Thank you Father so good
This evening we started a new Hypothesis, number 20. The focus is on receiving the advice of the fathers and how important it is not to develop an individualistic approach to the spiritual life. Asceticism can very quickly become something of our own making. Whenever we are guided simply by our own judgment, spiritual practices can very easily lead us into pride. The longer that we are in such a state, the greater the danger of falling into delusion. One who thinks he is above the elders’ or anyone else’s judgment, he who seeks no one else’s counsel, will come to experience the greatest darkness. We are part of the living body of the Church and God has given us that which is most essential for our sanctity. Despite the darkness that we see within the world and sometimes see within the life of the Church, we do not want to lose sight of God‘s Providential care and the guidance of the Spirit. Nor do we want to lose sight of those God has put on our path to help support us and guide us. Such an attitude requires from us an openness to the guidance of the Spirit in our lives. Above all it requires humility. Our path as Christian men and women is distinctly the path of humility, the path of the cross, and so we must never be deluded to the extent that we place our own judgment above others. In the end such an attitude will eventually lead us to place our judgment above God himself. From such a tragic darkness - we may never emerge.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:16:39 Anthony: Look at the history of Family Radio for a contemporary example. 00:18:33 John White: O felix culpa! O happy carbuncle! 00:18:52 carolnypaver: 🤣 00:22:20 Josie: you said that the reason he fell was because he did not listen to the fathers however we do not have fathers nowadays therefore we also have no one to listen to 00:29:11 Ambrose Little: We have have a great treasure trove of saintly writings to learn from and be disciples to—much more so than in the time of the early desert fathers—and to complement Scripture, and we also have our pastors, our bishops, who often provide contemporary guidance on things that are new and/or relevant to our time that may not have been so previously. We also can have spiritual friends who can encourage us and build us up—many lay institutes, fraternities, and so forth, as well as less formal spiritual friendships. 00:29:54 Ren: God bless translators! 00:35:11 Ambrose Little: We also have this group! 🙂 00:35:32 Carol Nypaver: 👍🏻 00:35:53 Ren: Yes! And a Father with a very authoritative beard to listen to :-D 00:36:48 Carol Nypaver: “Abba David of the Beard”😇 00:37:47 Anthony: To modify something attributed to Padre Pio: "If you think I would make a mistake, do you think God would?" Go out with a good will, be determined to be pliable to God, try to exert right reason, be cheerful & hopeful; God will take care of you, lead you along, bring you to the right people (for your instruction and for you to help), even if not an "elder." (And beware Jansenism, the scourge of 'traditional' Catholic spiritual formation, especially among French and Americans. I like a priest-monk friend's praise of peasant spirituality; for me, it fits.) 00:37:56 Ambrose Little: He's amazing. I love all his stuff I've seen (Fr. Cantalamessa). 00:41:14 Anthony: yes 00:43:12 Josie: Anthony do you mean also not to overthink things? 00:43:26 Anthony: that's part of it, Josie 00:43:33 Bridget McGinley: As a wound care nurse, I have seen women come in that have sincerely regretted having breast augmentation procedures due to the consequences of complications and you can see and feel the mark of remorse in them for this vanity. This story about the wayward monk resonates with me because I have seen this exact thing that is written. How do we recognize pride of heart when there are so many paths both good and bad? Like fasting and prayer life, how do we avoid excesses? How do we know (i.e. signs) that we are being balanced and humble in our spiritual life if we don't have that spiritual father to discuss the details of our lives to? 00:47:53 Bridget McGinley: Thank you Father. 00:53:09 Anthony: Historically, Franciscans rescued Catholics in danger of falling into Catharism and Waledensianism. 01:01:55 Ambrose Little: It seems like we can lose sight of the Providence of God. We can focus on the lessening of a particular kind of spiritual guidance, or particular traditions and pious practices, or particular ways of celebrating the liturgy. But what is God giving us in place of them? How is God calling us to grow and live in our own day? What faith-filled friends has he put in our lives that we overlook or take for granted, who could help us grow? What might we be missing? Surely God is not leaving us without his gifts and the necessary helps we need to live our lives of faith? Are we insisting that God help us in the way we want rather than the way He wants? I think folks here in this group are taking advantage of one of the great gifts God is giving us today. 01:03:59 Rachel: LOL Yep 01:07:04 Ren: These stories prove so perfectly, via negativa, the teachings of the last hypothesis on obedience as the sure path to the virtues (that also protects us from pride). I frequently find myself formulating elaborate prayer rules, being very satisfied with them, and then failing miserably. So, the only thing I got out of it was an hour of pride. It seems that taking one’s spiritual life into one’s own hands is always a very dangerous way and that, unless under the instruction of a director, one should keep to the simple way of the church’s teachings, and its guidance concerning prayer. Nothing more. Nothing “creative”. The spiritual benefits will never outweigh the danger of pride. It reminds me of Philip Neri, and his disciple who insisted on keeping vigil and ended up harming himself permanently. 01:09:09 Ambrose Little: I personally prefer paleo prayer. 01:09:11 Eric Williams: Exodus 90 🙄 01:13:02 Rachel: Simple......lol ..oook 01:13:09 Anthony: Isn't my river in Syria a while much nicer than the dirty Jordan River? 01:13:26 Ambrose Little: Simple but not easy! 😄 01:13:57 Anthony: Master, if the prophet asked you to do something great, wouldn't you have done it? So Naaman bathed in the simple, dirty Jordan and was a changed man 01:15:03 Ashley Kaschl: I think this individualism we were talking about can also lead to a touch of willful ignorance of certain areas of the faith within groups of people. I’ve encountered a lot of adults who cannot be roused to investigate potentially fruitful areas of the spiritual life because “it isn’t for them” or they “don’t want to go down that road.” There’s a sentiment of “I pray, I love God, and I’m faithful, and that’s good enough for me.” But I think that is a dangerous place to be in the spiritual life, because I don’t think we should ever be “content” with where we are. Individualistic faith seems to sometimes lead to mediocrity, which could also be a subtle symptom of pride; to cling covetously to the spiritual life we’ve “made” for ourselves. 01:17:06 Josie: does anyone know a good online bible study?... 01:17:31 Ambrose Little: Fr. Mike's Bible in a Year is great from everyone I know who’s done/doing it. 01:17:54 Josie: thank you, but i meant i group like this one..? 01:20:15 Ambrose Little: or only pay attention to the bits that agree with what we already think! 01:21:29 Rachel: Thank you
Forrest Cavalier:
I wanted to share a connection I made to Hypothesis 20. The topic summary for Hypothesis 20 is in the 1783 edition in greek, translated as
"That no man should trust in himself for anything, but should listen to the counsel of the fathers in all things, and should confess the secrets of his heart without concealing anything."
But it seems to me that the first few stories are monks cutting themselves off from the goodness of community. And some of it can seem very brutal and harsh, and that is why I am writing.
I was also reading this week St. John Chrysostom Homily 12 on Acts. (Next Sunday the reading from Acts is immediately after the story of Ananias and Sapphira. I wondered about Peter's shadow, and the homily covers both stories in Acts and shows that they are integrally connected.)
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/210112.htm
I think the ideas in Homily 12 are connected to the stories at the start of Hypothesis 20, and I found this accidentally. We in the modern church do not have too many experiences of people being cast out of community, and maybe we even have frustration that more people are not cast out. But we want it to be medicinal. We want people to be forgiven and reconciled and rejoined into community.
As I read the first parts of Hypothesis 20, my gut reaction is difficulty in seeing the stories as being a good model of community discipline.
But then I happened to read Homily 12, which makes a strong argument that it is not extreme that prideful people are cut off from goodness, and that their wounding of the community is partially healed by casting them out. Homily 12 says that there was a superabundance of grace in the community after Ananias and Sapphira were cut off from the land of the living, and there would have been no benefit to let them live longer than they did. That's harsh! Yet, the superabundance included even Peter's shadow being salvific, which Homily 12 says was a sign greater than what Christ himself performed, a partial fulfillment of Jesus' prophecy of the greater signs they would perform in his name!
And then when I went searching for "pride" in scripture, I found many other Bible passages with similar harsh consequences for being so prideful. (I found these with my search tool, and selected some of them. I included the Mt 25:21 because of the story about the pot of beans, which I think you probably will not get to read tonight, but maybe.)
Num 15:30-31 But anyone who acts defiantly, whether a native or an alien, reviles the LORD, and shall be cut off from among the people. For having despised the word of the LORD and broken his commandment, he must be cut off entirely and bear the punishment.
Prov 16:2 All one’s ways are pure* in one’s own eyes, but the measurer of motives is the LORD.
Dt 18:20 But if a prophet presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded, or speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.
Prov 16:4 The LORD has made everything for a purpose, even the wicked for the evil day.
Prov 16:5 Every proud heart is an abomination to the LORD; be assured that none will go unpunished.
Prov 16:18 Pride goes before disaster, and a haughty spirit before a fall.
Mt 25:21 His master said to him, ‘Well done, my good and faithful servant. Since you were faithful in small matters, I will give you great responsibilities. Come, share your master’s joy.’
1 Tim 3:6 He should not be a recent convert, so that he may not become conceited and thus incur the devil’s punishment.
We picked up this evening with Step One “On Renunciation of the World”. St. John‘s focus is on entering into the spiritual life, the ascetical life, fully. We are not to make excuses out of our past sins or let them become impediments to our engaging in the spiritual battle. Psychologically they can become exactly that. Shame can make us hold back from opening ourselves to God and the healing that He alone offers. Likewise, fear of what lies ahead and the discipline involved can keep us from investing ourselves fully. Rather, we are to respond as if we were called by an earthly king; eagerly leaving everything to go to him and remaining alert lest he should call us day or night. We would never give ourselves over to sloth or cowardice knowing that we would find ourselves under the king’s judgment. Thus, we are to enter into the spiritual life unfettered by worldly concerns. Whether one is a monk or living in the world, one must have God as the beginning and end of all things - the very center of our existence. He must be desired and loved above all things.
If this is true then we will charge into the “good fight” with joy and love without being afraid of our enemies, the demons. They know the movements of the mind and the heart, the patterns of behavior that they observe within us and whether or not we are scared. Therefore, John tells us, we must enter into the battle courageously for no one fights with a plucky fighter.
Naturally St. John begins by focusing on the early moments of the ascetical life. God by design protects the novice in the spiritual life in order to keep him from falling into despondency. He hides the difficulty of the contest. However, if God sees a courageous soul He will allow him to experience conflict and to be in embattled in order that he might be crowned all the sooner. Thus, God will allow us to be tested if it will perfect our love and virtue and if He sees our zeal for Him.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:09:34 Robyn Greco: i could listen to you preach anytime Father, because you're such an excellent teacher 00:18:20 Ren: The number of men who started chuckling just then was pretty fantastic. Caught on camera! :-D 00:18:40 Debra: 😄 00:18:40 Cathy: i was thinking the same 00:24:28 Sam Rodriguez: Have heard it said before “if we don’t make time for prayer, we’ll never find time for prayer.” 00:24:48 Debra: Is removing prayer time, and saying that we are too busy, a sign of spiritual warfare....or 'just' allowing our will to 'win? 00:25:16 Debra: Sorry...I don't know how to do the digital hand lol 00:25:57 Carol Nypaver: Go to “reactions” 00:26:20 Debra: Oh! Thanks, Carol! 00:26:32 Carol Nypaver: 😇 00:26:56 Ambrose Little: Alt+Y on Win; Opt+Y on Mac 00:27:16 Debra: Thank you! 00:27:23 Carol Nypaver: 👍🏻 00:29:24 Ambrose Little: Did you really go to college if you never pulled an all nighter?? 🤔 00:29:35 Debra: Yes! Fr. D, I've experienced that...a peace when I've pushed through my will, to pray 00:30:19 Vicki Nichols: I never pulled an all nighter either 00:31:05 Carol Nypaver: Same, Vicki. I can’t function without sleep. 00:38:38 Sheila Applegate: This. Above. Not because I am an asetic but I can't function as a human without 7 hours plus. Carol. :) 00:39:37 Carol Nypaver: In living the Gospel, how do you NOT offend people? 00:44:25 RiccardoO: “You will not be far from the Kingdom of Heaven” has an interesting ring to it. Not far, but not yet in the Kingdom. Am I correct to interpret the list in this paragraph as the starting point? Is there another step that Climacus is not mentioning here, along the lines of the invitation of Jesus to the young rich man, “if you want to be perfect..”? 00:49:16 RiccardoO: Thank you father. 00:50:30 Rachel: LOL Nope, that would be me. 00:53:56 Robyn Greco: Ive lived on anxiety almost all my life but recently when I slow down and give it all to the Lord the fear leaves, literally, its holding onto that, that is the hard part 00:54:45 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: I heard that the demons can't read your mind. Is that true? 00:56:35 Debra: I wonder if Fr. Rippenger has talked about whether or not demons can read our minds 00:56:54 Robyn Greco: He has Debra 00:57:38 Robyn Greco: If you search on YouTube Father Rippenger you'll find talks he's done 00:58:24 Robyn Greco: I keep hearing about this "centering prayer" stuff but have no idea what it is 00:59:57 Debra: Robyn, I have one of his books...I went to get it lol 01:00:44 Debra: Yes....a 'little knowledge' is a dangerous thing lol 01:00:53 Robyn Greco: I've been told it's dangerous so I think I'll just keep staying away from it 01:01:34 Sam Rodriguez: Fr Ripperger gives an answer very similar to Fr Abernethy. One element that Fr Ripperger emphasizes is that they can access our memory and feed “thoughts” into our minds (for lack of a better term) and create confusion within us between our own inner voice and theirs 01:01:35 Ren: I love your thought about the problem being our over-reliance on ourselves. If we are weak, we are weak; that is not the problem, because God’s grace can work through that. Fear, and, essentially, the lack of trust in God that it exposes, is the real problem that leaves us vulnerable to demons. 01:03:01 Wayne: Need to attend church Services tonight.. Happy Easter everyone. 01:05:56 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: 🙂 01:08:19 Rachel: If not only other people but demons can read us so to speak in order to attack us and pull us away from God through fear, can it be that when one by grace, little by little comes closer to Christ, in turn, that person because of their close proximity to Christ can ward off attacks? Where a person is able to discern more easily because they have kept the waters still. I think of Saints like Saint Maximus. Where many were against him and he kept pressing on able to discern and not abandon Christ. ( E 01:08:42 David Robles: Dear Father David, I am an Orthodox Christian in the Patriarchate of Antioch. This coming Sunday is Palm Sunday for us. Next week is Holy Week. I would like to wish everyone a blessed Easter. Christ is Risen! Truly, He is risen! We sing an ancient hymn, 01:09:50 David Robles: Christ is risen from the dead trampling down death by death and upon those in the tombs bestowing life. 🙏😀 01:09:54 Carol Nypaver: Easter Blessings, David!🐣 01:10:47 Michael Shuman: Amen, David. 01:11:33 Cathy: Thank you David Palm Sunday Blessings and have a Holy Lent. 01:11:59 Ashley Kaschl: There’s a good book by the late Fr. Gabriele Amorth called “An Exorcist Explains the Demonic: The Antics of Satan and His Army of Fallen Angels” and it might clear up what demons are able and not able to do. 😁 01:12:02 Sam Rodriguez: When our sufferings and trials seem to pull us farther from God and hurt our relationship with God, is it perhaps our own preconceived notion of what is a “good” thing to happen vs a “bad” thing ultimately the source of that wedge? Given that any sufferings or trials that God Permits, we can trust that He Has Covered them all in a greater Good 01:12:32 Sam Rodriguez: Grace 01:14:23 Carol Nypaver: Thanks, Ashley. 01:14:55 Ambrose Little: St. Paul spoke of something like this as a thorn in his side that he beseeched God to take away, but God said, “my grace is sufficient for you; my power is perfected in your weakness.” 01:15:01 Robyn Greco: Been trying to find a spiritual director for years, they are, sadly, a rare breed these days 01:16:35 Robyn Greco: We see across the street, God sees 20 miles ahead of us 01:16:56 Sam Rodriguez: I’m reminded of a prayer that Mother Teresa prayed regularly: “Heavenly Father, if there’s anything I’m doing that’s not your Holy Will, please let it fall apart in front of me.” 01:18:13 Bonnie Lewis: I love that Sam. 01:18:49 Sam Rodriguez: 🙂 01:18:56 Debra: ❤️ 01:18:56 Rachel: Yes, lots of baggage affects our vision. Throw it overboard! 01:21:34 Babington (or Babi): Thanks be to God
Tonight, I have to say, was one of the most beautiful groups on the Evergetinos that we have had to date. I do not say this lightly given how wonderful the past groups have been; but this hypothesis (19) opens up for us the meaning of obedience in such a way that one begins to understand that it is a virtue to be loved precisely because it draws us into love.
Obedience is therapeutic; it brings about healing for the soul. It place one in a right relationship with God and so heals the wounds of sin. Obedience leads to intimacy; he who does the will of My Father in heaven is my mother, my brother, my sister. We are drawn into the most intimate relationship with a Most Holy Trinity, Christ tells us explicitly, so much so that He and the Father will come to us and serve us when we have been faithful.
Indeed we already know the fruit of this in every celebration in Holy Mass. We need to only ask ourselves: “Who is it that sits at this table and who is it that serves?” Christ has made himself the obedient One and through His obedience has given us all; nourishing us upon His life and love. Our obedience allows us to respond in kind; it removes every impediment to our giving and receiving love.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:05:53 Rachel: Hola everyone. 00:07:56 Rachel: Road rage? 00:24:45 Ambrose Little: I remember reading St. Francis de Sales recommending that readily assenting to requests, even of our inferiors (e.g., even one's small children), is a kind of obedience. It is submitting our will to that of another. 00:26:23 Sarah Kerul-Kmec: Elder Paisios is a great example of this. giving over his will to a small child in an act of obedience 00:29:11 Daniel Allen: Would it be correct to equate obedience then as laying aside one’s own ego and preference to respond to the need of the other? Not to over simplify the topic but also trying to understand the common theme among the examples presented. 00:30:38 Rachel: It seems in this type of obedience to the reality of the person right in front of you God is not only trying to teach you something but He is offering Himself! This is the perfect example of what St. Maximus just said 00:34:18 Fr. Ben Butler: Yes, agreed. Well said about confession. 00:34:59 Ambrose Little: I think so, Daniel. It's a sacrifice of ego on behalf of another. Easier said than done! 00:35:06 Daniel Allen: Sorry question is above just prior to Rachel’s 00:38:41 Rachel: Wow 00:43:54 Forrest Cavalier: Is there a footnote about the camel in your English translation? 00:51:12 Forrest Cavalier: Marriage vocations are delayed, too. 00:52:16 David Robles: Father David, maybe it would be useful to point out that we do not obey the commandments as an exercise in ethics, or finishing a to do list, a set of rules, a legalistic requirement. For the Fathers , obedience to the commandments is something dynamic, nothing less than our participation in the Life of the Holy Trinity. The commandments are also therapeutic. Following them heals us. Finally we have the promise of the Lord Himself who in the gospel of John tells us, "whoever obeys my commandments is the one who loves Me... And the Lord promises that He and His Father will come into the heart of such a one and dwell in him. 00:55:47 Rachel: Obedience seems to be very closely related to purity of heart. David Robles just expanded on that point I think. 00:55:52 Rachel: I'm so sorry! 00:57:17 Ambrose Little: John 5:19; 31 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise…. “I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me.” John 10:30 "I and the Father are one." Divine union is often seen as the culmination of the contemplative life. 01:02:44 Rachel: What if one ( no this is not pertaining to me) finds there is a request or advice given by someone that contradicts what their conscience tells them? What if the person is a confessor or spiritual director? For a parent or spouse or friend this seems pretty clear cut but a confessor or spiritual director? 01:02:57 Rachel: LOL 01:04:37 Erick chastain: it is interesting reflecting on obedience after palm Sunday. I found myself wanting to make more sacrifices for Jesus after seeing how much our Lord lowered himself for me. 01:09:12 Ashley Kaschl: Seems like Newman is on the mind, because these paragraphs and sections are reminding me of the last part of a quote by St John Henry Newman, “Therefore, I will trust Him, whatever I am, I can never be thrown away. If I am in sickness, my sickness may serve Him, in perplexity, my perplexity may serve Him. If I am in sorrow, my sorrow may serve Him. He does nothing in vain. He knows what He is about. He may take away my friends. He may throw me among strangers. He may make me feel desolate, make my spirits sink, hide my future from me. Still, He knows what He is about.” It seems that obedience is tied up, then, in trust and hope, and that these sections we’re reading demand a sort of stretching of our trust in God’s plan and will for our lives to its limits so that God can show us the depths where we might find joy in our obedience no matter the circumstance. 01:10:02 Ashley Kaschl: Sorry 😂 01:10:24 Carol Nypaver: My favorite. 🙏🏻 01:11:32 Rachel: No, its my favorite! Newman probably loves you more though. 01:12:43 Carol Nypaver: 🙃 01:13:03 Ambrose Little: If we zoom out from seeing the Law as a long list of particular commands and rather as a guidebook to the practice of obedience, then it seems clearer the truth that Christ put forth when He said that He came not to abolish the Law but to fulfill it. For in Him is the completion and perfection of obedience. 01:16:53 Carol Nypaver: Is there anything to be gained by obedience when it is done grudgingly….against one’s conscience? My son was forced to mask for 2 full years, in seminary, hating it all the while. 01:17:16 Carol Nypaver: 🤪 01:18:28 Forrest Cavalier: Filial piety aids harmonious community, even grudgingly. 01:19:09 Ambrose Little: If we agree with a thing, it is more akin to following our own will than another's. 01:19:24 Carol Nypaver: 😲 01:19:54 Carol Nypaver: Thank you! 01:21:55 Ashley Kaschl: Thanks father! 01:21:58 Sharon: Do you want a correspondence by phone call, email or FB Message? 01:22:04 Rachel: Thank you Father and everyone. 😇
As we step further into this first reflection of St. John Climacus on Renunciation, we begin to see how he paints with broad strokes. His intention is that we would begin this journey with a clarity of focus. Our asceticism is to be driven not by our own will or by fear or by hope of reward - but by love.
So often, we can turn the ascetical life into a matter of endurance, or self-punishment rather than a means of healing and drawing us into deeper intimacy with God. Thus, all the images that John uses in this first step call us to let go of our preconceived notions of the spiritual life and of God. We are to allow Him to draw us forward and His Spirit to guide us along the path that fosters our sanctification and salvation.
God wants us to enter this path with zeal and fervor. Love must fuel the fire within the heart that makes us run with swiftness when Christ calls us. We are to run with love and be motivated by desire. God and the pursuit of divine things cannot be set aside anything within this world as comparable in value or importance. God must be the beginning and end of all that we do. We must be ever so careful not to become calculating in our view of the spiritual life and never asceticism as another means of self-help. In fact, the self must be set aside in order that we might constantly gaze upon the face of Christ. It is Love that motivates us and beckons us and it is this Love alone that will bring us to what our heart longs for the most.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:09:25 Cindy Moran: Good Evening!! 00:09:46 kevinferrick: Yes good eve!!! 00:13:59 Edward Kleinguetl: In a secular culture that is at war with the values of the Gospel 00:23:20 iPad (10)maureen: Sorry it was on by mistake 00:30:12 Bridget McGinley: Wow Father, that insight is profound as with the comparison of the Biblical texts. Thank you 00:30:18 Eric Williams: Stone is a building's foundation. Brick structures are built on top. Should pillars be built on bare earth? I don't know, but my guess is that doing so makes a structure vulnerable to ground eroding underneath. So, we must start our ascent will a solid foundation, for to attempt advanced ascesis too quickly would invite disaster. We might ask ourselves how firm the ground is under our ladders. 00:33:34 Ryan Schaefer: I think it is easy to focus on how much energy we put into putting awareness in Christ, rather than directly focusing on Christ. Does that make sense? Something that I have been thinking about this past week. 00:33:52 Andreea and Anthony: What page/paragraph are we at? 00:34:06 Anthony: 14 00:34:11 David Robles: Father, if a good foundation is Love and Chastity (see #8), and Innocence, fasting and temperance, which take time to learn (see#10), how can we attain to that in the beginning to be used as a foundation? In other writings Love is the summit of the spiritual life. What kind or measure of love do we need at the beginning? How is that love different from the kind of love that is our goal? 00:34:13 Carol Nypaver: 56. 14 00:36:58 Joseph Caro: Wow, I really love your interpretation of #14 Father. I thought at first it was good to build on stones. . .but your interpretation made me notice that the first two people are building structures (a stable dwelling place, either way -- pillars on bare ground might not be within building codes but it would make a house anyway) whereas the third is running free. That's a strange juxtaposition that is only illuminated by your explanation. 00:37:13 David Robles: Thank you Father. That makes sense! 00:39:47 Eric Williams: I don't mean to belabor the point, but I may have insight as a runner. Attempting to run a race or a hard workout without warming up first could lead to either injury or poor performance. So, this metaphor doesn't strike me as very different from the others. 00:40:49 Sam Rodriguez: We live in a time of celebrity Priests and Catholic speakers that can often engender a cult of personality, self-promotion, and product-mindedness in much of our current catechetical offerings. When one contrasts that phenomenon against what St John Climacus, it seems to point to some concerning implications as to the spirit as to how current and future generation of Catholics might be formed, if not checked 00:41:39 Rachel: This is a pernicious temptation where when one is trying to avoid multiplicity they are in fact focusing too much on self 00:41:39 Sam Rodriguez: *contrasts that phenomenon against what St. John Climacus is saying 00:42:42 Andreea and Anthony: Everyone is needed in the Lord’s kingdom. My wife and I have benefited greatly from Bishop Barron and Fr. Mike Smitz, Fr. Dave Pivonka, etc 00:45:22 Anthony: Simplicity vs multiplicity. It may be better to smoke or drink in peace of heart on one's own porch than to listen to many Catholic teachers on YouTube. 00:46:03 Sam Rodriguez: Oh I agree, Andrea and Anthony. And I'm not saying its intrinsically bad. But I'm saying it *can* be bad... and i'm not pointing to any particular Priest/Speaker... and quickly acknowledge that many are wonderful and holy... but i'm speaking to the aggregate impact that such phenomenon can have to people seeking to give their life to ministry.... the glitz and allure of celebrity can be distracting... and launching a ministry such as that can sometimes rely upon self-promotion, which inherently carries spiritual risk and must be checked... 00:46:33 Andreea and Anthony: Judge not that you may not be judged. We cannot know how God is acting in someone else’s souls 00:48:26 Sam Rodriguez: If you re-read what I'm saying in those past two comments, there is no judgment intended to be expressed. This is merely a caution flag being waived. Nothing more. 00:48:29 Ren: My mind is also turned to the man found building a barn on the night he is going to die, and to Christ speaking of the destruction of the physical temple, and the enduring nature of the temple of his body. Everything in the New Testament, and here in this chapter, points us towards a less earthly, less secure (in one sense) way, and towards total abandon to the person of Christ. 00:52:01 Anthony: And it came to dust because it was intended to receive Messiah. But when Messiah was rejected, the earthly glory was dismissed.. It's a warning for our cathedrals and basilicas too. 00:52:16 Robyn Greco: sorry im late 00:58:12 Sam Rodriguez: Amen, Father. Thank you 01:04:01 Ambrose Little: ❤️ 01:05:51 Robyn Greco: i lost my spot can someone tell me where on page 57 we are? thank you 01:06:08 Rachel: I wonder at the examples of monks who fell away because of the lack of clarity Fr. Abernathy was speaking of a few minutes ago. The clarity Father A speaks of seems to be one received at every moment, from Our Lord through union with Him in whatever degree and capacity we are able to in that moment. In relation to St. John C., we will be pulled down by fears manifested in different idols and desires. The labor and grief also seem to be the pain that comes from the Divine Sculptor chipping away our illusions, of self and more importantly God Himself. Consumed by God Himself Also, ! I am not too sure what sublimation, that you mentioned means, so I will have to look up what you meant and how that related to what your were saying and how it relates. 01:06:15 Erick chastain: the joy of virtue should not exclude tears of compunction though 01:06:55 Rachel: Yes, Erick, a joyful sorrow. :) 01:07:43 Rachel: I was thinking the same thing. btw and am not afraid to say it lol 01:08:25 Rachel: What is peace? 01:12:37 Andreea and Anthony: Listening to the story about the Franciscan whose gift to the poor was destroyed by them before they could benefit, should we draw the conclusion that building on a large scale for others is always a mistake and a way of self-aggrandizement? For example, should Pope Saint John Paul the Great not have started any of the “big projects” he started such as World Youth Day, visiting so many countries, the work of the Catechism, Theology of the Body, etc … Should Saint Teresa of Calcutta not have built any of the homes for the poor? THAT was the way SHE was called to be the face of Christ in the world … 01:12:55 Andreea and Anthony: From Anthony: Regarding the idea that as soon as we try to enter the kingdom things go south, that seems very discouraging. Why would anyone then attempt it? It seems to me that God allows trials in accordance to what we need for the salvation of our souls, not allowing the devil to crush us immediately. 01:14:00 Erick chastain: joy should include suffering and compunction, it is not a worldly joy 01:14:54 Erick chastain: suffering with christ 01:17:04 Cindy Moran: Thank you so much! 01:17:12 Rachel: Thank you 01:17:21 Sam Rodriguez: Thank you. Father!! 01:17:24 Rachel: If you say so lol 01:17:38 Rachel: Yes, it is drinking pure light 01:17:48 Ann Grimak: Thank you 🙏 01:17:56 kevin: thank you 01:18:08 Anne Barbosa: Thank you =) 01:18:11 kevin: Love Newman! 01:18:12 Debra: I like that the questions/comments are typed out, so I can go back and read them, if I've had to step away from the computer 01:18:28 liz2: Thank you Father!! 01:19:12 Rachel: lol I love this group
Tonight we continued with Hypothesis 19 on the importance and value of obedience. I think it is safe to say that this is some of the most beautiful writing on the subject - one can only imagine because it arises out of deep experience.
Obedience is presented to us not as a kind of slavishness or something that leads to the crushing of the personality. Nor is it something that is infantilizing. What we find in the Fathers is just the opposite. Obedience is the prime good that we are to acquire because it casts out pride and it creates humility within the heart. Christ loved obedience because he loved the Father. It is in his incarnation that he was, by providence, obedient to his heavenly Father unto the cross and death. He obeyed the Father in love even though he was in no way inferior in greatness and dignity.
Obedience and love are intimately tied together. Divine love is vulnerable. And nowhere is this seen more fully than in Christ giving himself over to the Father’s will without question.
Such obedience also brings us healing and freedom from the danger of falling into delusion. Protected from pride, we never see ourselves and our lives as abstracted from God and his will for us.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:07:33 David Fraley: I always have snacks! 00:10:42 Anthony: "City a Desert" on YouTube is how I found him. 00:13:54 Debra: I didn't get any email today, regarding the commenting 00:24:02 Mark: Sorry… incredibly distracted on my end… what page are we on? 00:24:14 Anthony: 146 00:24:34 Mark: Thanks 00:32:21 Anthony: So this is what fundamentally makes our anthropology different than the Cathars. They make ascetism a mere act of will. We realize we have disjointed psychology that must be put aright. And that is by grace and synergy of the will with grace we reorganize the soul/mind/body. And this synergy is individual and communal. 00:37:56 Mitchell Hunt: I saw that. Very profound. Quote was from Elder Aimilianos 00:42:02 Ren: Didn’t one of the Fathers we read even talk about revealing ones thoughts to ones angel? It might have been in the context of the hermits, and I think they were able to see their angel, but I think it is still a lovely thought that could apply. 00:54:42 Anthony: I think that is a sentiment shared by Seneca the Stoic. 01:06:21 Ren: This paragraph really serves as the proof of the hypothesis: Obedience is most valuable because it defeats pride, and gives birth to humility and love of God - all without the danger of delusion. Amazing. Also helps to explain why the chapter on obedience is the longest chapter in the Ladder. Strange that the only time we really talk about obedience in the life of the church is little kids doing what mom and dad say. 01:11:16 Anthony: My discipline is political philosophy. Since the Reformation, and especially the American Revolution, we have a worldview of opposition and "I have the truth, I will separate from you." This is immature and selfish and even Marxist, looking at life through a framework of parties being in perpetual opposition. But classical political philosophy has a worldview based on love, friendship, patronage, "the ties that bind." That is the Classical worldview upon which our Catholic ethics are based.Thank you everyone who participated in the study of The Ladder of Divine Ascent tonight. Your questions were both beautiful and challenging.
Synopsis:
As we continued our reflection upon Step One “On Renunciation” St. John makes it very clear that we must enter into the spiritual battle with a zeal and desire for God; we must leap into the fire if we really expect the celestial fire to dwell within us. None of our ascetical practices, or the renunciation of the world that John speaks of in this step, can be abstracted from our relationship with God and what he desires to give us. The firm foundation upon which the spiritual life is laid is innocence, fasting, and temperance. Like a child, a babe, we are to have a simple trust in the care of our heavenly father, we must allow him to nourish us upon that which we need. Our love can know nothing of calculation or sly deceit. This is essential John tells us. We must begin the spiritual life with clarity about who we are before God and what it is that we seek.
Likewise, we must enter into the spiritual life not lagging in the fight. A firm beginning, John tells us, is useful when we later grow slack. We will all face trials and turmoil in the spiritual life and it is our first love, our first desire and zeal for the Lord, we must remember in order to set our hearts aflame once again.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:11:22 Cathy: Now thats Divine Providence! 00:11:36 FrDavid Abernethy, CO: Yes. I thought so. 00:16:19 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: Where can you find the text Father is reading from? 00:16:53 Sean: Paragraph 9 at the bottom page 55 00:17:57 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: Thanks but is there a pdf file one can get this from? I do not have the book. Just started with you all. Thanks. 00:18:40 Sean: I don’t think so 00:18:44 Ren: There is no PDF that we have access to. The book can be purchased at: https://www.bostonmonks.com/product_info.php/cPath/75_105/products_id/569 00:19:16 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: OK Thank you. 00:20:56 Anthony: I have a problem with laying off all things. For example, although Christ went into the desert for 40 says and was often in prayer, He _did not_ utterly cast off His family. His Mother was with Him. He had friends. He had family mentioned in the Gospels and Epistles. 00:28:55 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: http://www.prudencetrue.com/images/TheLadderofDivineAscent.pdf found a PDF 00:29:36 Cathy: Great! Saint John Climacus is looking our for you!! 00:29:50 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: 😇 00:30:30 Anthony: And this is where a spiritual father, an elder / staretz, and Catholic Culture come in. They can regulate us to be neither puritanical nor lax 00:41:31 Ambrose: fortitude maybe 00:42:19 Rachel: that is a wonderful chapter!! 00:45:14 Anthony: YOU ARE RIGHT 00:59:56 Anthony: Synergy. This is fundamentally opposed to the monergism which is the heart of the Calvinist American culture. 01:05:40 Michael Shuman: This is a really good question. 01:09:47 Joseph Caro: sheen talk: https://youtu.be/5e5oPIHnHQs 01:16:41 Carol Nypaver: Thank you, Joseph! I love Ven. Archbishop Fulton Sheen!🙏🏻 01:17:18 Anthony: The more one loves, the more one suffers when the love is offended. That is how I see Our Lady suffering at the foot of the Cross most closely with the suffering and loving Christ 01:19:37 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: colossians 1:24-26 01:19:58 Ashley Kaschl: “God has created me to do Him some definite service. He has committed some work to me which He has not committed to another. I have my mission. I may never know it in this life, but I shall be told it in the next. I am a link in a chain, a bond of connection between persons. He has not created me for naught. I shall do good; I shall do His work. I shall be an angel of peace, a preacher of truth in my own place, while not intending it if I do but keep His commandments. Therefore, I will trust Him, whatever I am, I can never be thrown away. If I am in sickness, my sickness may serve Him, in perplexity, my perplexity may serve Him. If I am in sorrow, my sorrow may serve Him. He does nothing in vain. He knows what He is about. He may take away my friends. He may throw me among strangers. He may make me feel desolate, make my spirits sink, hide my future from me. Still, He knows what He is about.” - St. John Henry Newman 01:20:38 Cindy Moran: Thank you! 01:20:56 Jos: thank you 01:21:24 Cathy: My favorite night! Happy Feast Day!
Tonight we continued our reading of Hypothesis 19 on obedience, its value, and how is attained.
We began with the Fathers’ understanding of the value of obedience. In it is realized all of the Commandments because through obedient love one conforms oneself to Christ. In this sense the person who is obedient, who embraces the will of another in whose care they are placed, becomes a “confessor of the Faith”. One who abandons his own will is rewarded more greatly than those who pursue virtue in accord with their own judgment or opinion. The clarity of the Fathers’ focus upon emulating Christ is essential for us to understand.
Obedience is not a slavishness; it is a self-emptying love that is rooted in the desire to please and serve the other. It is rooted in trust and shaped by self-sacrifice. May we never complicate it so as to make it unrecognizable. Within it is the power to redeem even what seems lost in our families, in our communities, and in life as a whole. It carries within it to seed of divine love that can reshape everything; even that which seems impossible to us.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:10:32 Lyle: Looking forward to another evening where someone may decisively, yet lovingly, dismantle erroneous ecclesiology for those of us catechumens. 00:19:55 Anthony: I'm guessing it was a fig branch or twig. That's one way to propagate figs. In year three, you get figs. 00:21:51 Ambrose: 1 John 2:3-5 ‘And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected.’ 00:22:18 Ambrose: John 14:15 ‘If you love me, you will keep my commandments.’ 00:28:35 Anthony: This has implications for laity in problem parishes and dioceses and clergy under bishops with issues. 00:28:52 Anthony: Also had political implications against revolutions. 00:42:07 Ren: How does one reclaim the spirit of obedience once it has been lost? Once you have let resentment and even contempt of a particular authority figure to establish itself? 00:42:33 Jos: this was my question too but on the level of family/ generations 00:44:34 Ambrose: This one got me this morning. From lauds intercessions: Forgive us for failing to see Christ in the poor, the distressed and the troublesome, and for our failure to reverence your Son in their persons. (particularly the "troublesome" part) 00:45:22 Carol Nypaver: Amen, Ambrose. 00:45:43 Anthony: We find our identity in the wrong. Yeah, that's not healthy. 00:46:37 Ambrose: and not "sharing" it in social media 00:46:59 Jos: sorry I can't unmute 00:47:23 Carol Nypaver: Can you type it, Jos? 00:48:40 Jos: I wanted to ask about whether when one is born into a culture/ family structure and many generations that is filled with this pattern of resentment, lack of obedience etc, if it is then even possible to really change without enormous amounts of effort. 00:49:22 Lyle: Fr. David, I‘ve always appreciated the way you and some other spiritual directors continually point us to the Lord Jesus as our ultimate example whenever we need an example. 00:49:41 Jos: in our culture and my generation it is very common and it seems for many of us like outside of a very concerted effort it is nearly impossible to break out of the habitual that's been solidified in the unconscious 00:50:09 Anthony: Seeing each others flaws only - it can lead to long term and serious and acute resentments as with antipathy of different Slavic or Balkan peoples - or any of the old rivalries of Europe. 00:50:59 Ren: Agreed Lyle! “He humbled himself, by becoming obedient to death - even death on a cross.” 00:52:11 Ren: I have never been willing to be “obedient to death” 🤪 00:53:56 Carol Nypaver: There are many kinds of “deaths”—🤪 00:54:11 Ren: Yes. Ooof. 00:54:28 Carol Nypaver: 😩 00:54:36 Ambrose: All things are possible with God! Baby steps. Finding small things to train the will. Prayer. Nothing fast or quick fix.. Lean into grace. 00:55:55 Carol Nypaver: It’s a “choice” to obey/respect. 00:56:49 Lyle: Christ came into the world, not in His own name, but in the Name of the Father (John 15:20). He voluntarily accepted to fulfill in the most perfect way of the Father. As an adopted child of God, must not I voluntarily do the same? After all, God raised our Lord up and exalted Him above everything AND thereby provided eternal life to all mankind. 00:57:29 Ren: Amazing how obedience requires the other great virtues: Faith, Hope, Love, Extreme Humility. Maybe that is why the obedient brother is considered the greatest. 00:58:28 Carol Nypaver: 👍🏻 01:01:32 Anthony: That's part of the Benedictine charism 01:04:38 Forrest Cavalier: Chrysostom Homily 20 on Ephesians 5 has this phrasing on bending the will: “and nothing is so bitter or so painful to me, as ever to be at variance with you” 01:06:29 Anthony: We formed in the American life have a long tradition of self-will going back to the Puritan, Scottich Covenanter and Huguenot traditions such as "Lex Rex" and "Give me Liberty or Give me Deah." 01:06:35 Anthony: "Death" 01:06:44 Ambrose: Though he was in the form of God, Jesus did not deem equality with God something to be grasped at. Rather, he emptied himself and took the form of a slave, being born in the likeness of men. He was known to be of human estate, and it was thus that he humbled himself, obediently accepting even death, death on a cross! (Philippians 2:6ff) 01:11:47 Lyle: During the Friday "Stations of the Cross", the Parish I am attending finishes EACH prayer with asking the Lord Jesus to "Do with me as YOU will." 01:13:15 Vicki Nichols: That sounds like St. Alphonsus Liguori's Stations of the Cross. 01:17:38 maureencunningham: Everyone a Movie called the Man of God about Saint Nektarios Of Aegina in Movie theater very beautiful film a friend said 01:22:15 Tyler Woloshyn: I have not found a viewing here in Canada for that movie yet 01:24:15 Anthony: Like the tendency to Jansenism or a Jansenist spirit among some American Catholic clergy and religious in past years and some trads now. 01:25:17 Lyle: The constant witness of the Eucharist is a very formative tool for anyone - adult or child. 01:25:50 Rachel: Thank you!! 01:25:51 Mitchell Hunt: thanks Father David 01:25:59 Anne Barbosa: Thank you Father!
Lecture given by Father David S. Abernethy, C.O. on Saturday, March 26.
After laying some groundwork in the previous weeks we finally stepped in to the meat, as it were, of John‘s writing.
We took up once again Step number One “on renunciation”. John moves very quickly to lay out before us the reasons why one would embrace the renunciation not only of the monks in the desert but of the ascetical life as a whole. The two fundamental reasons are the multitude of our sins and the love of God. The beginning of the spiritual life most often is the simple acknowledgment of our poverty and the infirmity that sin brings into our life. We see the emptiness of this life outside of our relationship with God. The acknowledgment of this truth bears the fruit of repentance; a fundamental turning toward God with streams of tears and heartfelt groanings that reflect an interior reality. It is then that God, as he did with Lazarus, orders that the stone be rolled away from the tomb and that we be unloosed from the passions that hold us in their grip.
Yet, John would not have us see this as a path that we take in isolation. It is always to be trod with a guide or a director, a Moses figure. We need those who can help bring about the healing of the passions of the soul by their care as physicians. We need to be guided by those who have lived a life equal to the angels; that is, who have been freed from the corruption of their wounds and so have become experts and the most skilled physicians/surgeons. We do not live our Christian life out in isolation but only in communion with others and strengthened by those who have been transformed by the grace of God and the ascetical life. This life, John tells us in an unvarnished way, requires violence and constant suffering; a dying to self and sin in order that our hearts might attain to the love of God and the love of chastity and all of the other virtues. There will be great toil in this battle and the false-self, that kitchen dog addicted to barking, John tells us, is only overcome by the one who becomes a lover of chastity and watchfulness.
The foundation of this journey is the courage to offer our souls to God in our infirmity, the faith to trust in Him, and the humility that we might bare all before his healing light of His Grace.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:11:31 Cindy Moran: What version of the book is being used? 00:15:58 Anthony: copyright 1979 Holy Transfiguration Monastery 00:18:01 Fr. Miron Jr.: https://www.bostonmonks.com/product_info.php/cPath/75_105/products_id/569 00:53:17 maureencunningham: What was the book Psychology Orthodoxy wombs the writer? 00:53:58 Fr. Miron Jr.: https://www.amazon.com/Orthodox-Psychotherapy-Esther-Cunningham-Williams/dp/9607070275/ref=sr_1_2?crid=174I4J6U16QTR&keywords=orthodox+psychotherapy&qid=1648080810&sprefix=orthoodx+ps%2Caps%2C94&sr=8-2 00:56:02 maureencunningham: Thank you 01:16:51 Ashley Kaschl: “The life of man upon earth is a warfare, and his days are like the days of a hireling.” (Job 7:1, DRA) 01:24:50 Rachel: wow! 01:26:04 Rachel: How many times have the faithful heard in the midst of the battle, the same comparisons. A mistaken notion that the engaing in the battle means one has lost their " peace!?" 01:26:43 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you so much Father David. 01:26:45 Cindy Moran: Very good session thank you 01:26:53 Miron Kerul Kmec: Thank you 01:26:54 Rachel: Thank you Father and everyone. 01:27:09 Samantha Topolewski: Thank you! 01:27:20 Carole DiClaudio: Good night everyone!!
Tonight we concluded Hypothesis 18 and began reading Hypothesis 19. Both emphasize the importance of not engaging in the spiritual life in isolation. One does not throw an inexperienced soldier, a novice in warfare, into the midst of a battle, having never used a weapon, and expect him to survive. Similarly, we are taught that it would be foolhardy for us to think that we could engage in intense spiritual warfare, especially that of a hermit in deep solitude, without first having many years of being formed in a spirit of obedience and the common life.
One must be teachable in the truest sense of the word; we must be docile to the guidance of others and those who are more experienced. Wisdom teaches us to seek the guidance of those who have experiential knowledge of what it is to struggle with the evil one, to avoid mortal traps. We must become unabashed students of the holy Fathers. We must let the dust of the road, as one from the group noted, and that of the sandals of the elders we follow kick up and cling to us. Simply by drawing close to the Fathers, by studying their writings, we find the surest teaching. In such an age is ours, where freedoms and personal rights are emphasized, it can be very difficult to wrap our minds around the value in the essential need of walking such a path. Yet, as we shall see, it is the only way because it is the path trod Christ himself.
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00:36:49 Forrest Cavalier: Was it Chrysostom Homily 20 on Ephesians 5:22-24? 00:37:00 FrDavid Abernethy, CO: yes 00:37:01 Forrest Cavalier: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/230120.htm 01:13:16 Forrest Cavalier: I think the word in greek βαφή connotes dyeing, not painting. 01:14:37 Anthony: Thank you, Forrest 01:16:55 Anthony: Forrest, that would make sense for it to connote dyeing, a dipping process; the word looks like it may share the same root as baptizo.
Tonight we resumed our reading of Step One on the Renunciation of the world. The step fits into the larger context of a break with the world which includes, John tells us, detachment and exile. Here is where monks sought to remove everything from their lives that would keep them from focusing solely upon God and what He alone offers. As Christians we may not imitate the monk in living in the desert; yet, in reality, the desert exists within the human heart. The renunciation that John speaks of in this first step must exist within us as well. There are many ways that we have to let go of the things that hold us within their grip; the passions (sins that have become habitual), disordered desires that make us long for satisfaction and seek it within worldly goods and the fulfillment of the appetites.
In paragraph 4, John begins to define for us the various types of Christians. He does this not as an abstraction but rather as a frame through which we can view our lives. He paints with broad strokes and asks us to gaze deeply into the image to see if we recognize a reflection of ourselves. Are we an irreligious man (not thinking of God at all), a transgressor who distorts the faith in a depraved fashion? Are we a Christian who seeks to imitate Christ in word, thought, and deed - who believes in what God has revealed of himself to us; namely, believing in the Holy Trinity? Are we the lover of God who seeks to live in communion with all that is natural and sinless? Are we the continent man, who in the face of temptations and turmoil, struggles in order that he might be free? Have we interiorized monasticism in the sense that we seek a chaste love, purity of heart and mind? Do we remember death so as to cling to He alone who is our life? Have we set aside the things of this world voluntarily; not because they are evil but because we are a naturally attached to them more than we are attached to the love of God?
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Text of chat during the group:
00:34:39 Anthony: We are tied to an evolutionary metaphysic - to our detriment. 00:35:13 Anthony: "We" being society, even Christian society adopt evolutionary "becoming' 00:36:54 Eric Williams: I think Thomas à Kempis made a good effort to remind Western scholastics of the bigger picture. 00:38:18 Ambrose Little: Some people are more intellectually inclined, and God can use that to draw people to himself. 00:39:20 Joseph Caro: good point Ambrose! I agree, from my own observations 00:39:21 Edward Kleinguetl: To be fair, Aidan Nichols--who I referenced-- is a Dominican. 00:39:34 Ambrose Little: Fr. Garrigou-La Grange, O.P. is great. Highly recommend: Christian Perfection and Contemplation: According to St. Thomas Aquinas and St. John of the Cross https://amzn.to/3JlEwrP 00:39:57 sue and mark: God will and can use who ever a 00:40:05 Fr. Miron Jr.: Let's return to Climacus 00:40:12 sue and mark: whoever and where eer you are to bring you to himself 00:40:57 Carmen Briceno: aren’t we doing the same thing now? over intellectualizing what has happened rather than going back to the sources? 00:58:23 Joseph Caro: “It is a mistake,” says St. John Chrysostom, “to imagine that one can in one’s own strength vanquish concupiscence and preserve purity; by God’s mercy alone can the passions of nature be controlled.” 01:02:58 Bonnie Lewis: This humility will reveal great truths about ourselves. 01:03:08 Mitchell Hunt: Where was that quote from above nothingness and humility? Amazing 01:03:14 Mitchell Hunt: About 01:07:34 Ren: @MitchellHunt - Mother Mectilde de Bar’s “Breviary of Fire.” The chapter on Pride and Humility 01:10:45 Erick: this is pure gold. each sentence of this is an outline of the spiritual life 01:11:19 Anthony: It takes experience in the world to see the trials and sorrow which result from the Curse, and we really then long to be free and to live in accordance with our nature (created and "deified"). 01:13:49 Cathy: We can not have 2 gods... We will despise one 01:18:37 Mitchell Hunt: Thank you Ren 01:18:40 Eric Williams: Material comforts are like agglomerations attached to us. As they increase in number, they add to our “mass”, and as mass increases so does gravitational attraction. The more things we amass, the more we draw toward ourselves. With a little more thought one might find an interesting metaphor to be made from the accumulation of accretions becoming so great that a black hole is formed. 01:20:17 Anthony: God is the "Philanthropic One." Beautiful title. 01:22:45 Sean McCune: Eric: We become a nothingness that pulls everything in our grasp to ourselves where they are also become nothingness. 01:25:09 Sean McCune: (It took your comment about material things to get this secular Franciscan to say something) 😏 01:26:40 victoriaschweitzer: Righto. We must receive. We cannot approach with the mindset that we have to accumulate spiritual goodies. Ask and you shall receive. 01:28:21 Eric Williams: Indeed, Sean. The funny thing about massive bodies is that they interact with others. Either we enter into harmonious orbits or equilibria with other persons, or we are rogue bodies that collide with others or gravitational abysses that absorb and destroy all that falls within our sphere of influence. (Have I beaten this metaphor to death yet? 😉) 01:29:14 Mitchell Hunt: I think some people have have missed tonight due to your time zone change recently. Got me on Monday night
Thank you to all who attended the group on the Ladder of Divine Ascent. It was wonderful to see so many with the desire to sit at the feet of the great Saint and teacher John Climacus.
Synopsis:
Tonight was our inaugural group reading the Ladder of Divine Ascent by Saint John Climacus. We allowed ourselves to jump immediately into the text with step number one “On Renunciation.” We will unpack things as we move forward; including the anthropology and the psychology of the fathers, the language used by Climacus and historical details from his life.
In the first three paragraphs Climacus begins his writing with God, who he describes as the source of life and salvation for all, believers and unbelievers, just and unjust, pious and impious, educated and illiterate, healthy and sick, young and old. He then goes on to define the Christian and the monk and how their identity determines the way they live their lives. Freedom is set out as imperative. God has created all free beings and offers salvation to all. This is the essential frame in which we are to read the rest of the book and understand the ascetical life. We freely seek to give ourselves and our love to God and to embrace the love and grace that He has given to us. Our asceticism is not simply an act of endurance but rather an act of freedom and love. Outside of this the ascetical life loses any sense of purpose and meaning. Likewise we look to the elders, to the fathers in their virtue and purity of heart for their guidance in word and deed. They in turn engage us not as impartial observers or analysts but rather as those who are fellow strugglers in the pursuit of God and of the kingdom. It is the love and desire for the salvation of those in their charge that guides and directs their care of others.
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19:27:40 From FrDavid Abernethy, CO : https://www.thepittsburghoratory.org/_files/ugd/5299f8_4fb9f89659424fcb997865abbdef4d24.pdf 19:29:16 From siobhan from pittsburgh : Hi Im Sandra 19:29:32 From Michele : Dave and Michele Berthelsen are here. 19:29:52 From siobhan from pittsburgh : not Siobhan 19:29:56 From Rachel : 🙏🏼 19:30:25 From kevinferrick : Hello everyone, newbie here from Boston. Hope I navigate the zoom alright 19:30:45 From Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt : Hi, God bless, Sr. Mary of our Divine Savior 19:31:09 From Amil : Perhaps in the grand scheme of things, we are all pretty tiny. 19:31:23 From siobhan from pittsburgh : I love it!! 19:32:24 From Ambrose Little : https://pghco.org/climacus 19:33:24 From Carole DiClaudio : Hi Kevin! 19:33:46 From Carole DiClaudio : Hi Sr. Mary! 19:40:39 From Joseph Caro : If there is a handout, can the link be posted here? thanks! 19:40:58 From Sean McCune : https://www.thepittsburghoratory.org/_files/ugd/5299f8_4fb9f89659424fcb997865abbdef4d24.pdf 19:41:55 From Miika : Good Morning everyone! First time live! Miika from Finland 19:42:30 From Carol Nypaver : Very cool! Welcome, Miika! 19:42:37 From Carole DiClaudio : Hello Miika!!! 19:42:53 From Rachel : 2-3 years! I hope I have that many ( blessed) years. 19:43:35 From Carole DiClaudio : :) 19:47:38 From Erick Chastain : Sorry, I ended up breaking into this zoom room by pure luck I guessed the link. I didn't sign up 19:48:01 From Ashley Kaschl : 😂 19:48:31 From Debra : I always fumble around to find the link 19:48:31 From Erick Chastain : If Fr wants me to leave since I didn't sign up, he or Ren can notify me 19:48:47 From Debra : BTW...thank you Ambrose for the link! 19:49:03 From Ambrose Little : Write it on your heart and on your mind. 19:49:15 From Debra : It's a weird URL 19:52:27 From Ren : No worries Erick :-) All are welcome. Even the hackers ;-) 19:52:55 From Carol Nypaver : 🤣 19:52:55 From Fr. Miron Jr. : 🤣 19:54:02 From Anthony : Wow, this is different than - as in other teachings - "elect" and "reprobate" 19:55:42 From Ren : WOW. Beautiful. 19:56:20 From Jim Milholland : How poetic 20:02:48 From Anthony : "These Noetic creatures" as Father said. That reminds me of this phrase used by St. Gregory of Narek: "Rational Flock." 20:02:59 From Fr. Miron Jr. : https://www.amazon.com/Orthodox-Psychotherapy-Esther-Cunningham-Williams/dp/9607070275/ref=sr_1_2?crid=3954VB8PGOFPM&keywords=orthodox+psychotherapy&qid=1646874171&sprefix=ortodog+psychoterapy%2Caps%2C61&sr=8-2 20:05:07 From Rachel : Yes!! 20:06:45 From Fr. Miron Jr. : same seminary experince duing my years... 20:10:26 From Lilly : I didn’t know him until last year 20:10:58 From Gilmar Siqueira : Translated into Spanish by Friar Luis de Granada :) 20:12:34 From victoriaschweitzer : Good point, amil ! 20:13:40 From Carole DiClaudio : I thought the same thing, Amil! 20:19:36 From Amil : 🕊️ 20:22:37 From Rachel : Bingo 20:27:51 From St. Stanislaus Kostka Religious Education : We simply have to keep ourselves focused on God. No matter what our 'poverty' limitations....not looking at each other's abilities or place in the world...just keep focused on God and ask for God's help. 20:34:03 From maureencunningham : Thank you 20:34:07 From Miika : Sadly theological education in the Nordic countries is also very one-sidedly rationality centered. (At least amongst us "protestants" -not that I protest anything personally...as far as I know) 20:34:22 From Rachel : lol Carol 20:35:12 From iPhone : thank you 20:35:18 From Rachel : Thank you Father and everyone. God bless! 20:35:23 From Bob and Tara Bartz : Thank you! 20:35:24 From Ben David : good night good fight 20:35:30 From Mitchell Hunt : Thank you Father 20:35:31 From Michele : Thank you!
Tonight we continued with Hypothesis 18 which examines the importance of seeking the guidance of elders; those who have a deep desire for God and have come to know His ways through experience. We can have no conceit of knowledge when it comes to the spiritual life. Natural gifts, talents, and abilities are good in and of themselves but they do not necessarily give us insight into the ways of God or knowledge of divine things. At times we seem to almost have an infinite capacity for self-delusion. The more one progresses along the spiritual path the greater in fact the danger becomes. If we do not guard our hearts, if we do not seek out the counsel of others, we can quickly fall into the pit of self-judgment. The fall then can be great and the damage done terrible. Therefore the Fathers with one voice call us to constantly seek out the wisdom of others, to listen to God at the depths ofour being with a spirit of humility. No matter how wise we become what we understand is infinitesimal in comparison to the wisdom of God and the Spirit that searches the depths of our hearts. In this we can allow ourselves no illusions.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:06:31 FrDavid Abernethy, CO: beginning page 139 00:25:23 Rachel: lol ?? unfortunately yes 00:25:28 Anthony: Or when you leave Mass / Divine Liturgy after profuse incense. 00:26:06 Rachel: Okay...I love the incense. Dont mind that one bit. 00:42:54 Forrest Cavalier: Instead of criticizing priests and deacons we need to dialog with them. It's a two-way commitment, though. 00:57:37 Daniel Allen: The Centurian was a pagan and Jesus said He had found no greater faith than the faith of this centurion in all of Israel. And I believe Scripture even says Jesus “marveled”. 00:58:09 Forrest Cavalier: The Greek original in this Evergetinos says "holy men". Discernment is important when we seek advice. 01:07:57 Bridget McGinley: The centurian is the man I study the most.... I want that Faith! Can you imagine "marveling" Christ? Thanks Daniel! 01:10:43 Forrest Cavalier: 1 Cor 13:2 And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing
It is a bitter sweet thing to come to the end of such a long journey - a long and sometimes arduous journey but one that has brought such joy and hope. Tonight we finished the final two letters of Saint Theophan to Anastasia.
They are perhaps the two finest letters of the collection. Saint Theophan speaks with a great directness and honesty about the anxieties that Anastasia experiences and how she has to deal with him. He sees how clearly they can be temptations from the Evil One to pull her away from God, from trusting Him, and from the practice of prayer. It was with great gentleness and tenderness that he guided her through this in order that Anastasia might understand that if she but makes an irrevocable gift of herself to God she will be ever under His protection. She need have fear of nothing and no one.
In the final letter (80) he speaks to her about the extraordinary grace she has received through having endured the storm. Satan sought to sift her like wheat. Yet God used all of this to perfect her faith and to teach her. The Enemy through his tricks sought to create hurry and to alarm her and confuse matters. Yet Anastasia has learned that Godly things are peaceful and quiet. She must only wait. Everything comes in its own time.
In the years to come, Theophan tells her, she must gravitate towards solitude; not necessarily the solitude of the desert but of her heart. There she must wait for God and allow herself to be nourished upon His love. Indeed, there is nothing more beautiful.
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00:15:51 Andreea Gallagher: Where are we? 00:16:21 Carol Nypaver: 302 00:17:02 Andreea and Anthony: Thanks! 00:17:15 Carol Nypaver: 😇 00:40:31 Barb Heyrman: Considering how related religious experience is to psychological experience it is interesting that at one time they were separated by design 00:53:16 Barb Heyrman: Also points to the problem of comparing ourselves & our circumstances with the situations of another — maybe the ‘recipie’ God is using w/ us & the oven temp & baking time is different 01:00:26 Barb Heyrman: I hear this all the time…the identity as the syndrome … anxiety/ADHD / ‘this is just who I am’ 01:12:31 Ren: To join the email group for the Ladder, go to www.pghco.org/climacus-email 01:14:59 Wayne: if we are on the email list do we need to register again? 01:16:23 Wayne: gotta go goodnight 01:16:37 Ren: This particular email list is for you to receive the weekly email with the Zoom link, or information specifically about the group (cancellations, etc…). If you are subscribed to Philokalia Ministries then, yes, you will want to subscribe to this list as well. 01:17:45 Art: Gotta go too. Good night, 01:19:15 Ren: Bumpkins 01:19:19 Ren: :-D 01:24:39 Rafael Patrignani: thank you! i have yo leave 01:26:18 Anne Barbosa: Thank you! 01:27:04 Eric Williams: There are 30 steps on the ladder, right? We might finish the book in about as many months. ;) 01:27:17 Mitchell Hunt: Thank you been a great study of Theophan 01:27:57 Carol Nypaver: Thank you! 01:28:35 Mitchell Hunt: Great sounds good
Tonight we continued our reading of hypothesis 18 which focuses upon the importance of seeking the counsel of those who have an experiential knowledge of the spiritual life. We do not live out our Christian life as individuals. Even the monk living in the greatest solitude understands the radical solidarity that he has with others in the life of the Church.
The stories that we are presented with here this evening show us that the desire of monks to seek out the counsel of elders; and not only the desire but the necessity of doing so. To try to walk along the spiritual path, to try and engage in the spiritual battle alone is foolhardy. Inevitably, we will fall to one of the passions or we will find ourselves in the grip of the Evil One.
Humility is key. Our lives have to be radically focused upon the truth and most of all the poverty and the weakness that sin has brought into our lives. We must acknowledge that it is by God alone that we are saved ; and that it is by his grace that we are able to engage in the ascetical life. We must avoid self-styled asceticism that lacks discretion. No matter how wise we might be we must believe that we are in need of learning and counsel.
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00:55:48 Forrest Cavalier: My summary of this discussion to Anthony's questions: We know by fruits: Wicked self-doubt leads towards despair, quietism (on one side) or self-reliant Pelagianism (on the other.) Proper self-doubt: recognize our poverty, leading to grace, trust, unity to body of Christ. 01:00:04 John Clark: Pre V2 you were required to fast after Midnight the night before attending mass and not eat anything if receiving the Holy Host… 01:00:47 Carol Nypaver: Yep….not even water. 01:08:43 Eric Williams: If disciplines become perfunctory, the Church should inform consciences and instruct the ignorant, not discard the disciplines. 🙁 01:09:36 Erick: agreed Eric 01:13:15 Erick: some people are trying to revive the ancient lenten fasting practice.... See here for details: https://www.beautysoancient.com/lentpledge/ 01:14:18 Eric Williams: I hope they revive St Martin’s (Nativity) Fast, too ;) 01:14:30 Rachel: Thank you! God bless everyone! 01:15:41 David Fraley: Thank you and good night, Father. 01:16:14 Rachel: Thank you Ren. 01:16:30 Eric Williams: Thanks for the reminder about that, Ren! 🙂
Tonight we had the opportunity to discuss asceticism as a preparation for the holy season of Lent. We find in the spiritual tradition a clear call to enter into a struggle to live the life of faith to its fullest. We are to strive to enter by the narrow gate.
When we look to the Scriptures and the writings of the Saints we see very clearly that they took no passive approach to the embrace of the faith. They knew that it must be lived and that their life must undergo a revolution. To live in accord with the beatitudes or the sermon on the mount means that one will not fit into the norms of this world. Just the opposite. In so far as we experience ease within this world, or experience success and the favors of this world we may be living a life at enmity with God.
Our life should be about seeking to love God above all things and seeking to please him. Our exercise of the faith, our asceticism, means nothing if it is merely an exercise of endurance. It must be rooted in our desire for God and the things of God. It must be rooted in love.
Seen in this light, Lent should not be simply a 40 day period that comes and goes; but rather a springboard into a more committed life in Christ. Lent is about repentance; turning toward God and away from self and sin. May we take this truth to heart and so know the healing of God‘s grace in all of its fullness.
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00:03:14 Jean-Paul: in a vow of digital simplicity no camera and no mic 00:20:12 Jean-Paul: Could you please re-state the name of that journal 00:47:16 Andrew musano: “Do that which is good, and no evil shall touch you. Prayer is good with fasting and alms and righteousness. A little with righteousness is better than much with unrighteousness. It is better to give alms than to lay up gold: For alms doth deliver from death, and shall purge away all sin. Those that exercise alms and righteousness shall be filled with life: But they that sin are enemies to their own life.” + St. Raphael the Archangel, Tobit 12:7-10 00:50:41 Anthony: Contendire in Latin. Contend. Not just "you signed an intellectual contract to get to Heaven." 00:51:30 Jean-Paul: The Great Fast begins with the Exultation of the Cross Sept.14 00:53:00 Louise A: My dear Father always practiced Ember day fasting....if I remember they were originally associated with the great feasts Christmas,Easter, Pentecost. 00:56:30 Andrew musano: Listed below is dates for Fasting in the East. I hope this helps. https://secureservercdn.net/166.62.112.219/1a3.c9d.myftpupload.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/the-fasts-of-the-orthodox-church.pdf 01:04:13 Jean-Paul: Carthusian guidance on fasting http://www.quies.org/quies_fasting.php 01:05:30 Jean-Paul: Carthusian fasting for the Fathers is usually on Fridays and consists of eating solely bread and water 01:10:47 Andrew musano: Let all involuntary suffering teach you to remember God, and you will not lack occasion for repentance. + St. Mark the Ascetic, “On the Spiritual Law: Two Hundred Texts” No. 57, The Philokalia: The Complete Text (Vol. 1) 01:18:56 Andrew musano: Ash Wednesday Is a beautiful tradition. 01:28:21 Andrew musano: A foretaste of Heaven on Earth 01:36:09 Ren: The adults are the real annoyance. Lets get rid of all of them :-D ;-) 01:48:59 Jean-Paul: Can anyone tell how long tonights gather will be 01:50:56 Jean-Paul: We are on page 4 will we complete the PDF tonight? 01:52:26 Andrew musano: “It is necessary for a Christian to fast, in order to clear his mind, to rouse and develop his feelings, and to stimulate his will to useful activity. These three human capabilities we darken and stifle above all by ‘surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life’ (Lk. 21:34).” — St. John of Kronstadt, My Life in Christ 02:10:22 Jean-Paul: More than 40% of the women over 75 live alone -- perhaps there are more hermits and monks than one knows. 02:11:11 Bonnie: This has given me an entirely new way to prepare for Lent. Much deeper, more meaningful, and hopefully long lasting. Thank you Father! 02:11:17 Miron Kerul Kmec: thank you 02:11:24 ellice: Thank you! This was beautiful 02:11:28 Jean-Paul: Peace and all good 02:11:29 Andrew musano: Thank you Fr. 02:11:40 Anthony: Thank you :) 02:11:50 Larisa Cowell: Thank you Father I loved it. 02:12:04 Louise A: many thanks Father
Tonight we concluded letter 77 and went on to read letter 78. As we have seen in past weeks, Theophan is much more direct with Anastasia now that she has made her decision to enter into the religious life. In multiple ways, she has been tempted either by those who have no faith, by her fear of injustice and false accusation, or her desire to express and pursue her own freedom. Theophan warns her against all these things and the kind of false freedom especially that we cling to that offers no hope. In fact, Theophan refers to it as an “evil impulse that is evil”. We are called to walk the path of the cross; to die to self and to self-will and to live for Christ. We have not been promised the love of the world. Rather, we have been promised just the opposite - its hatred. Why would she want to flee her parents house when in reality it is a protective environment for her? It is there that she can learn the life of a obedience at the hand of those who love her the most. What greater opportunity is there to be formed for the religious life than this? Don’t chase false freedoms, he warns her. The impulse to freedom is like chasing rainbows or desiring to catch shadows. When we look at the world we see unhappy people desperately seeking to assert themselves - often at the cost of others. She must learn to look at her life in the light of Christ and her freedom in light of the communion of love in which she exists with God. Anything else is an illusion.
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00:06:03 Art: Posting a follow up to Eric C’s question from last week. While he was asking I was reminded of one possible answer to the dilemma whether to obey the Church 10 years ago or the Church one month ago. Rather than butcher the response, I’ve included the actual source. It begins around 15:28 and ends around 20:50 Two points I found helpful were the comments that in a crisis there is an objectively right thing to do. “You hold on to what was always believed everywhere by everybody.” “What has the Church always believed? That is what I must continue to believe.” And “The faith does not change. What was once true is still true. Either it was false then, in which case it is false now. Or else it was true then and it’s true now.” The speaker is Fr. David Sherry SSPX. Hopefully you find it helpful. http://sspxpodcast.com/2021/12/crisis-series-49-father-what-can-i-do-about-the-crisis-in-the-church/ 00:32:13 Anthony: I've wondered if this applies to legal processes such as the cases for freedom to act according to a well formed conscience. OK, suppose you lose the case....would that change your acting according to a well formed conscience? We are called to accept persecutions. 00:35:35 Anthony: Would the truth of the cross apply to suffering under the English "Reformation," the French Revolution and the Vendee, the American Revolution....and current events like in Eastern Europe? 00:40:30 John Clark: I once had to confront an office bully…It was a good outcome 00:43:00 Lyle: Today, some of us were meditating on the Office of Readings regarding St. Polycarp's martyrdom. His last words brought tears to my eyes. “I praise you for all things, I bless you, I glorify you through the eternal priest of heaven, Jesus Christ, your beloved Son. Through him be glory to you, together with him and the Holy Spirit, now and for ever. Amen”. 00:43:21 Lyle: Surrounded by the fire, his body was like bread that is baked, or gold and silver white-hot in a furnace, not like flesh that has been burnt. So sweet a fragrance came to us that it was like that of burning incense or some other costly and sweet-smelling gum. 00:44:18 Carol Nypaver: Amen! St. Polycarp, pray for us! 00:46:48 Erick Chastain: you get an academic department at a major public university 00:47:22 Erick Chastain: 😅 00:59:53 Eric Williams: I was bullied every year of my public education. Hardly a desirable kind of socialization. 01:05:21 Ren: Booooooo ;-) 01:05:29 Cathy: I am offended 01:05:49 Carol Nypaver: 🤣 01:06:22 Ren: Suffragette #1 over here :-D 01:06:36 Ashley Kaschl: 😂😂😂 01:09:59 Lyle: Too many times MY exercise of freedom led me FROM the LIGHT (My Lord) to DARKNESS (Rebellion and sin.) 01:13:06 Eric Williams: seen on a bumper sticker: “Teenagers, quick, leave home while you still know everything!” 01:18:49 Edward Kleinguetl: His book, Tattoos on the Heart, is amazing! 01:19:26 Marylouise Lambert: Homeboy Industries 01:20:49 Anthony: We (the Church) were helped along in our deplenishment by Josephism, Jansenism, Americanism. 01:21:53 Anthony: Febronianism....all worked to diminish our unified spiritual/social role 01:22:46 Erick Chastain: actually... I think it was 1 year ago 01:22:54 Miron Kerul Kmec: Thank you! 01:23:03 Cathy: Good for you Eric!! 01:23:13 Mitchell Hunt: Thank you Father David 01:23:16 Erick Chastain: It was this podcast that told me about grace 01:23:22 Anne Barbosa: Thank you! 01:23:26 Cathy: Thank you Father! 01:23:43 Cathy: Bring snacks!
Tonight we continued with Hypothesis 18 on the importance of seeking the company of virtuous people and questioning so as to learn about the spiritual life. What we find in the writings and the lives of the desert fathers is a stress on the importance of seeking counsel. One never walks spiritual life in isolation. We should foster a zeal within us to talk about the spiritual life with those who have experiential knowledge that is rooted in many years of striving to live the gospel in its fullness. We are given one example after another of individuals seeking out the counsel of elders, being swept up in the desire for their wisdom, and being willing to travel great distances to learn from them. May God instill within our hearts that same yearning and urgent longing for God and for the truth.
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00:06:57 Mark: Which version of “The Ladder” are you going to use? 00:07:39 Rachel: good to know 00:08:18 Eric Williams: I shared some quotes from the Evergetinos with my Saturday morning men's group 00:08:37 Anthony: Nice 00:12:27 carolnypaver: Page? 00:13:12 Fr. Miron Jr.: 135 00:16:07 Anthony: They had a visit, it was time to go, and the went outside to leave but kept talking for hours? Maybe they were Italian. ;) 00:17:40 sue and mark: they must have been! 00:23:45 Anthony: Does this maybe come as a result of the "frentic energy" which Father David warns against? A kind of energy that just wants to be dissipated but not focused? 00:34:22 John Clark: Personally praying the rosary silently keeps me in constant contact with the Lord and Holy Spirit 00:46:28 Rachel: It is mostly our own vice 00:50:17 Anthony: Heresy of Americanism, too 00:51:44 Eric Williams: Catholics have forgotten how to be in the world but not of it. 00:53:30 Erick Chastain: Bp athanasius schneider 01:00:02 Eric Williams: Is this a stone age tool? ;) 01:01:03 Rachel: " Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord..".. 01:04:10 Eric Williams: Unfortunately, big books/sets are hard sells these days, even to those who seem engaged in their faith. Attention spans are short, people are busy, and we're conditioned to pay attention to sound bites and memes. 01:07:42 Eric Williams: I still have your notes from the Climacus group you led years ago (20?). :) 01:10:07 Rachel: WOW!! 01:13:01 Erick Chastain: can confirm about cmu 01:13:38 Rachel: I feel like that everytime I talk lol 01:13:57 Wayne: gotta go 01:14:41 Eric Williams: I've always appreciated how succinct and to the point your homilies are. The anxiety was worthwhile! 01:16:19 Ambrose Little: Unless you just don’t like apples. 😄 01:17:15 Fr. Miron Jr.: and also in slovakia 01:17:31 Rachel: haha 01:17:53 Lyle: May hungering and thirsting for God drive us to a passionate, relentless pursuit of Him. 01:20:04 Rachel: Thank you Father
Tonight we began with Letter 76 where Theophan again takes up the temptations that are coming to Anastasia from unbelievers. They have begun to call into question the reality of God and the dignity of the human person; making absurd arguments and trying to twist her up within them. With clarity, he tells Anastasia simply to stay focused upon the dignity of the human person. No matter how diminished we are physically, emotionally, or spiritually, we always bear within us the grace of God who created us in His image and likeness. Even if that reality seems to be lost altogether and personhood is called into question, each individual has an inherent value and dignity in Christ. Within the Divine Economy God is always working through the circumstances of our lives in order to bring about our salvation. Life in this world may seem unreasonable or harsh but none of it prevents God from manifesting himself in our lives and bringing us to a share in His Eternal Life.
In Letter 77, Theophan focuses upon another temptation rooted in domestic unpleasantness. Anastasia is frustrated by having to live in obedience to her parents and postponing her entrance into the monastery. This is the Evil One’s doing,
Theophan tells her, and he has muddled her brain, confusing her mind with uncertainty. It is all deception, Theophan warns her and she must cross herself and drive out the temptation. It is tantamount to making mountains out of mole hills. We tend to do that with so many things in our life. Rather than fighting the good fight of faith against the evil one we will direct our frustration outward on to other people and circumstances. We must embrace those circumstances in a spirit of humility and obedience, always seeking to conform ourselves to Christ and to see our lives in light of the mystery of the Cross.
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00:04:47 FrDavid Abernethy, CO: No Whining. St. Theophan 00:16:14 Eric Williams: If I'm not mistaken, "idiot" formerly had a clinical definition before entering the vernacular. 00:17:48 Anthony: Like Dostoevsky's book "The Idiot," which referred to an epileptic. 00:19:43 Anthony: Herman the Lame was a hymnist and scholar and had terrible afflictions. 00:20:45 Eric Williams: https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/idiot 00:27:44 Anthony: Sometimes stark contrast helps us understand the point better; sometimes it gets in the way. 00:28:58 Rachel: When I was a child, there was a girl my same age who our family knew that was mentally retarded. My Dad told us children, that people that are born this way go straight to Heaven. That they cannot speak or they would tell all of the secrets of Heaven. Every once in a while we were all supposed to volunteer to take Stephanie out and keep her company and give her care givers a break. One Sunday, I jumped on the opportunity to be with her. I already did like to be with her but now that I thought she knew the secrets of Heaven I could not wait for my turn. She never said anything but she just grabbed my face and smile when I asked her. As I child I felt happy but jealous of her being able to go straight to Heaven. 00:37:22 Edward Kleinguetl: 21 00:38:01 Anthony: He was not even Coptic, but, i think, Ghanian 00:38:43 Rachel: Oh my goodness. They are martyrs! 00:38:46 Luiz Eduardo Lawall: This is very frustrating 00:45:56 carolediclaudio: Hahahaha love it 00:51:35 Erick Chastain: sorry my dog unmuted the mic 00:52:01 Eric Williams: Did he eat your homework, too? ;) 00:52:04 carolediclaudio: :) 00:57:16 Rafael Patrignani: very interesting! thank you. I have to leave, 00:57:31 Anthony: Evil one said "I will not sevre" 00:57:50 carolediclaudio: Bye Rafael! 00:59:18 Rachel: Wow 00:59:41 Anthony: Dom Scupoli was another who obeyed and apparently was vindicated later. 01:00:11 Rachel: Please give me the name of the other holy brother? 01:00:52 Anthony: Savonarola in Florence; Dom Scupoli was the other 01:00:56 Ben Miralles Jr.: Girolamo Savonarola 01:01:22 Rachel: Thank you 01:04:39 Rachel: lol 01:13:18 Anthony: We have been formed mentally to be like a scholastic....but without the mysticism the scholastics (like St. Thomas!) should have had. (and St. Thomas did have) 01:16:41 Jk: so true anthony 01:22:37 Eric Williams: "Everyone argues too much!" "No we don't!" ;) 01:22:59 carolediclaudio: :):) 01:30:31 Erick Chastain: Paisios also says that this age has a rampant spirit of impudence 01:30:51 Erick Chastain: Too many rebels everywhere. 01:32:04 Kmec: Thank you 01:32:17 Eric Williams: Rebels without a clue!
Tonight we concluded letter 75. This letter and those that follow all focus on particular temptations that Anastasia is facing as she approaches her decision to enter into the religious life. Theophan in Letter 75 focuses on the tricks of the enemy to dissuade her or throw her into despair because of the weaknesses, sins, and poverty that she sees within herself. His counsel to her is to allow these things to humble her but not to throw her into despair. Her endurance of the struggle is for the sake of crowns, he tells her; that is, the growth and perfection of the virtues.
In letter 76, Theophan begins to focus on the temptations that come from unbelievers. These are much more subtle, he warns her, and those who engage her will seek to cram a lot of worthless garbage into her head. They might be wise and clever in the ways of the world but underneath their words can be a malicious spirit that poses a threat to her faith. She must be willing to let what they say go in one ear and out the other and not purposely expose herself to the narrow mindedness and hard heartedness of those opposed to the faith. She must examine her own bewilderment and leave no trace of it within her mind and heart. Faith is a gift of God instilled within us by our very creation. It is older and greater than education and society. These things pass on knowledge to a new generation. However, we must understand that religious belief is part of every race because it is also the part of every man. In fact, “man is not man”, Theophan says, without it. To cast away our faith, to undermine it through neglect, is to distort and mutilate ourselves. He who does not have faith departs from the fundamental reality of who we are as human beings and in the process can make himself freakish on both a moral and psychological level. The perception and experience of reality is undermined by cutting oneself off from He who is Reality itself. Our response to this must be to embrace our faith fully and to allow it to transform us without any opposition; to allow the grace of God to inflame and purify our hearts.
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00:05:42 FrDavid Abernethy, CO: bottom of page 289 00:14:16 Rachel: 😐 00:18:36 Anthony: comfort -> cum forte -> with strength 00:22:31 Anthony: I learned that at least in the time of the last Tzar and Rasputin, the Russian nobility were drawn to theosophy and other dangerous curiosities. 00:29:34 Eric Williams: And by being sucked into these unproductive battles, we risk behaving as the pharisee, rather than the publican. 00:29:57 Rachel: This is so good 00:30:23 Anthony: See HIllaire Belloc, "The Free Press" 00:33:05 Rafael Patrignani: Kierkegaard' s book: 'mortal sickness' talks about that process that leads to desperation 00:33:45 Anthony: Some "Science" is just philosophy or the occult in disguise. 00:34:51 Rachel: You're not alone for sure. 00:35:28 Philip’s iPhone: I’m working in a catholic high school and I can even relate ! 00:35:30 Anne Barbosa: I also avoid having lunch with my coworkers 00:35:35 Eric Williams: Alas, too often science is distorted and contorted into scientism. 00:36:15 Erick Chastain: Eric W, my catholic scientist friends call it "teh science" 00:40:01 Eric Williams: “Tolerance is an attitude of reasoned patience toward evil … a forbearance that restrains us from showing anger or inflicting punishment. Tolerance applies only to persons … never to truth. Tolerance applies to the erring, intolerance to the error" - Fulton Sheen 00:42:32 Rachel: Wow. 00:43:59 Rachel: This is so timely and helpful. When we see ans sense a lack of the spirit of generosity in the other to engage in Truth, to seek Truth, we have more of an obligation to disengage. Quickly. 00:48:17 Rafael Patrignani: objectivity is an act of love and death to ourselves 00:50:11 Philip’s iPhone: Please remind me which number letter we are discussing? 00:50:27 Philip’s iPhone: Thank you !! 00:50:51 sue and mark: 76 00:58:57 Rafael Patrignani: nowadays I think culture is in a state worse than secularised.. it's increasingly against Christianity.. 00:59:31 Anthony: Pierce v Society of Sisters 01:00:08 Anthony: the state tried to destroy Catholic schools precisely due to formation 01:02:24 Erick Chastain: sadly jack Kerouac grew up catholic 01:03:06 Erick Chastain: but ironically he led me to the faith (indirectly) 01:08:36 Eric Williams: Transhumanism is a mess 01:08:48 Rachel: "Face it, you're a moral freak!" okay..yeah I could see how that could be problematic. 01:09:38 Rachel: Because it gets filtered through the perspective of a mutilated sense of self that is not* rooted in Christ. 01:09:53 Eric Williams: Great. Now I'm hearing "moral freak" being sung by Rick James in my head. ;) 01:12:31 Rachel: Oh my goodness that is already happening. 01:13:33 Carol Nypaver: Frightening…. 01:13:37 Rafael Patrignani: it's old like mankind but apostasy makes it worse 01:14:28 Rafael Patrignani: the lack of the spiritual anchor puts in danger the boat 01:14:51 Anthony: Khalil Gibran, "The Wise King" poem is about societal delusion 01:23:24 St. Stanislaus Kostka Religious Education: I am most turned off by the turn of some religious people pointing at others rather than asking for God’s grace that we ourselves become fire. As I think of the saints of renewal they seem to be more about the fire of the spirit rather than blame of others 01:24:39 Mitchell Hunt: Thanks Father David 01:25:26 Mitchell Hunt: Still uploading to YouTube afterwards? 01:26:10 Eric Williams: Easier to keep trolls and spammers out via Zoom, too 01:28:18 Rachel: Thank you! 01:28:23 Mitchell Hunt: Awesome appreciate the pod bean archive 👍
This evening we began Hypothesis 18 on the importance of seeking the company of virtuous people and the benefits of questioning them with zeal and desiring to learn from them. In many ways this is an important hypothesis for the modern mind; to understand the need to be docile, that is, teachable. We must learn to be humble in our approach to the mystery of God‘s revelation of himself to us and his son. We will always be in the position of learners. Likewise, we will never be beyond needing instruction in the life of faith from those who have an experiential knowledge of striving to enter by the narrow path.
In fact, we have the distinct responsibility, the fathers tell us, to either learn with sincerity what we do not know or to teach with clarity whatever we have learned. There is no static position in the life of faith. If we believe so, we fall into a kind of madness that ends with apostasy. Part of our desire for instruction is our desire for God and our yearning for him. We should always be thirsty to understand the ways of the Lord.
It has been said that a starving man has no sense of taste. We see this in our own generation. The failure to teach the faith and the pass on an understanding of the spiritual life has led to a void so deep that men and women have begun to search far and wide for something to nourish them; despite the fact that they have what is most precious already in their possession. Even if we seem to understand nothing or we see no immediate change within us - as if we ignored the teaching of the elders - we should be confident that the seed they planted will eventually bear fruit. Furthermore, simply being in the presence of those who are holy engraves on the soul the immutable archetype of virtue. Simply being in the presence of one who loves God can instill that same love and devotion within our hearts.
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00:10:06 FrDavid Abernethy, CO: page 134 Hypothesis XVIII 00:24:00 Forrest Cavalier: Mt 13:12 To anyone who has, more will be given and he will grow rich; from anyone who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 00:31:44 Ashley Kaschl: Gotta run 👋 00:37:01 Erick: that liturgical culture is still there at your local FSSP Latin mass parish 00:38:10 Erick: even rogation days don't make sense in the present day liturgical calendar 00:38:34 Erick: it did make sense in the 1962 calendar.... we have lost the syntax 00:38:53 Carol Nypaver: Or Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest Latin Mass. 😇 00:39:07 Erick: indeed carol! 00:39:40 Eric Williams: I’m worried that Traditionis Custodes will make it harder for Westerners to rediscover traditions like rogation days or more “rigorous” fasting. (I don’t bring TC up to be controversial. I’m really quite sad for the future of venerable traditions in the West.) 00:39:57 Forrest Cavalier: I attend FSSP, Ordinary Form, and Byzantine. No one is safe from new deceits of Satan, at any parish. 00:41:05 Erick: it's funny because TC is making it easier to access rogation days etc in the short run. but in the long run agreed. 00:41:37 Erick: (because TLM attendance has gone up since TC came out) 01:09:57 Rachel: That is the exact thing that stuck with me as well! I went to a Mass many years before my conversion and everyone was kneeling and focused on Our Lord. I had no. idea. what was happening before me. Bit it stuck with me. 01:11:46 Forrest Cavalier: She might be Byzantine. They stand for that part of Liturgy! 01:13:17 Rachel: lol 01:15:33 Ambrose Little: Well, I’m gonna be the odd man out here.. I too have gone to TLM masses for years, and I like it and appreciate it, but… One doesn’t need rogation days, particular ways of celebrating the mass, or the old calendar to imbue one’s daily life with the Faith. We have a current Church calendar. It is packed with memorials and feasts for saints, Our Lady, and the life of Christ. We have Lent. We have Advent. We have Eastertide. We have Christmastide. We have the Divine Office—you can fill your day with prayer, seven times a day if you wish—and more. The Holy Mass is remarkably available for most of us—even I here in the boonies have two reasonably close daily masses. There are many third orders, institutes, associations, and more (e.g., programs like This Man is You, King’s Men, etc.) that offer ways of more fully practicing the faith with the help of others. If we can’t imbue our lives with the Faith with all these available to us, then the problem isn’t with the Church, it is with us. 01:17:01 Vicki Nichols: I agree with you Ambrose 01:17:55 Erick: we are human ambrose LOL. The Church should make it easier, not harder 01:20:16 Rachel: The Liturgy affects the way you pray and what a person believes and how understands and relates to God and the world around them. It all starts there and ends there, from Communion to Communion. 01:20:34 Erick: and the Church, when she takes things away or alters them to be less helpful, actually hurts our process of becoming imbued with the faith. as st Thomas says, we learn through the senses 01:22:14 Rachel: Yes! 01:22:22 Ambrose Little: Everything I listed is there to help, and more. There are oodles of helps. Many people live vibrant, faith-filled lives happily without missing the older forms/devotions. Have to be careful about projecting personal preferences out as if they are objectively superior. 01:23:22 Rachel: Thank you all and Father!
Tonight we read Hypothesis 17 on what we build our hope upon in this life. The focus of the hypothesis, on the surface, is avarice and greed; the intensity of this passion and the insatiability of our desire for worldly goods. We are given one story after another revealing to us, however, that the real struggle is found within the heart. There is a kind of tendency within us toward idolatry or better said in the context of our relationship with God adultery. We attach ourselves to the things of this world, we love them and desire them in the fashion that we should only love God. God is the pearl of great price, the treasure hidden in the field. He who has faith and sees the value of this love should be willing to set aside all to process it. Like St Paul, we should see all as rubbish in comparison to the love of God that we receive in Christ Jesus. We are shown in the stories the subtlety of this kind of avarice even to the point of commodifying spiritual acts and deeds. We can see them as possessions arising out of the self and the desire for self-preservation rather than the love of God. We are warned that this passion can become so rooted within us that it cannot be subjugated. “He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”
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00:25:23 Mark Kelly: A friend recently commented that Modern culture is now based on addiction. Addicting us to many perceived needs. 00:25:48 Ashley Kaschl: 💯 00:26:05 John Breslin: 👍 00:37:54 Anthony: "MY PRECIOUS!!!!!" 00:38:26 Anthony: I didn't appreciate that LOTR was a commentary on basic vices. 00:38:33 Rachel: Me too 00:40:45 Mark Kelly: A great point about LOTR. Most of the “desire” for the ring relies on the imagination of the one who covet’s it. The power of The Ring is never fully demonstrated. The lust for the imagined power alone is another to lead the soul to destruction. 00:41:50 Anthony: Oh wow, thanks, Mark. 00:45:55 Rachel: It reminds me of the Franz Jaggerstatter film 00:49:04 Rachel: When one truly seeks silence, internal and external as much as possible while living in the world, it seems to me Our Lord will provide many experiences of having to cling only to Him. There are sufferings in people's lives that can be like the cell or the desert in the midst of community etc. 00:56:10 Rachel: That quote made my 18 y.o. laugh out loud and say I love that. Never heard that quote before! 00:59:26 Anthony: And our Anglo American law is very much about acquiring wealth and keeping it in the family. It militates against virtue, and is a "schoolmaster" in vice. 01:08:52 John Breslin: Fruit of the poisonous tree… 01:10:40 maureencunningham: What is the name of the book she reading? 01:12:20 Forrest Cavalier: John 01:12:32 Carol Nypaver: Josef Pieper Virtues of the Human Heart 01:12:33 Ashley Kaschl: A brief reader on the virtues of the human heart by Josef Pieper 01:16:00 Mark Kelly: I love Fr. Lazarus 01:16:39 maureencunningham: Thank You 01:17:14 Ashley Kaschl: Here’s the prayer of self-offering, too 😁 Receive, Lord, my entire freedom. Accept the whole of my memory, my intellect and my will. Whatever I have or possess, it was you who gave it to me; I restore it to you in full, and I surrender it completely to the guidance of your will. Give me only love of you together with your grace, and I am rich enough and ask for nothing more. Amen. 01:18:03 maureencunningham: Beautiful thank you 01:18:25 Anthony: Weight of the heart goes along with the fire burning the gold, too. The philosophical property of earth was heaviness. The property of fire was lightness. We can either cooperate with the lightness of God's fire, or God's fire will just conquer the heaviness of earth against our will. 01:19:18 maureencunningham: Blessing Thank You 01:20:08 Anne Barbosa: Thank you! 01:20:08 Rachel: Thank you! 01:20:47 Rachel: Yay!! 01:20:54 Natalia Andreu: Thank you! 01:20:55 Rachel: Thank you! Perfect timing
We began this evening with letter 75 entitled “The tricks of the enemy.” Anastasia has fallen into sadness inexplicably. Her heart is overcome with heaviness and darkness. Theophan, therefore, wants her to understand exactly what is going on: she is engaged in spiritual warfare and these are the attacks of the enemy.
However, he exhorts her, “the power of the cross is with us! Take heart and stand fast.”She need not fear the enemy that is attacking her and approaching her from every side, creating such a disturbance that her world seems to be turned upside down. She must simply cope as well as she can and be long-suffering in the battle knowing that it will pass. She need only “not consent” to anything that is not necessary. Similar to Job, Anastasia must thank the Lord both for the times that are peaceful as well as the times of difficulty. She must simply throw herself before the Lord with her whole being as well as call upon the Mother of God to intercede on her behalf.
Theophan does not deny that she is suffering attack. However, he wants her to be like a soldier; steeling herself against the enemy’s attacks, unwilling to change her intention or decision one iota. She must struggle and renounce his suggestions and curse them. The more that the evil one murmurs in her ears the more she must call out to Christ and simply express her belief even when all seems shrouded in darkness. She must state clearly “I do not want any of this, anything the enemy suggest.” Rather, he tells her, she must want one thing; to “speak solemnly before the Lord in her heart.” Fight the good fight of faith even when you find yourself thrown down and seemingly overcome.
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00:22:47 Lyle: Do NOT consent! Each of us KNOWS, yes KNOWS, where we are spiritually weak. If you can not do anything else, pray - "Lord, Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner! Cleanse my thoughts! Cleanse my heart! MAKE my thoughts, YOUR thoughts!" 00:23:20 Edward Kleinguetl: Amen! 00:33:51 Lyle: Even the Archangels do NOT battle the demons directly. Michael on behalf of God Almighty, as a representative of His kingdom said "The Lord rebuke thee." 00:40:12 Lyle: Deuteronomy 31:6. Be strong AND courageous. Do not be afraid or terrified because of them (distractions, demons, etc.) , for the LORD your God goes WITH you; he will NEVER leave you nor forsake you.” 00:49:52 renwitter: “The Asceticism of Joy” 00:55:05 Rafael Patrignani: we know and live the perfection of love in the trials. are we with God or not? 00:57:00 Sharon: Reading and praying over “Trustful Surrender to Divine Providence, the secret of peace and happiness” has helped me, Anthony. 00:57:13 Lyle: John 14:27. Our Lord, HIMSELF said, “Peace I leave with you, MY peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let NOT your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.” 01:17:45 Cathy: Very well said Erick 01:22:38 Miron Kerul Kmec: Thank you Father
Tonight in our reading of The Evergetinos we concluded Hypothesis 15 and read the entirety of Hypothesis 16. Both have a similar focus: our natural loves and affections for others or the things of this world are to be set aside for the love of God in the kingdom. We must acknowledge that all things begin and end with God and all things come to us from His hand. Simply put - all is grace and our acknowledgment of this truth should give us a kind of freedom to set aside or worldly attachments be they bad or good. Once again, we are presented with multiple illustrative stories that challenge our sensibilities. We see individuals who heroically struggle to let go of worldly ties, not because they are evil but in order to be able to embrace not just the greater good but that which is eternal. Even that which is good, even our virtues must be perfected by the grace of God. In many different ways we can be willful; we can choose paths, even those that are religious in nature, because they appeal to her sensibilities rather than being clearly something that God demands. We must let go of the illusion that we are the source of life and salvation. It is a particularly modern notion of creating a better world or acting to bring about societal change as the object of the deepest aspiration of a person’s life. All that we read from the lives of the Saints shows that they see things through the lens of God’s revelation of Himself to us in His Son. Our dignity and destiny as human beings is found in Christ and it is Him that we must seek and devote ourselves to completely. It is only when all things are subordinated to Him that we come to see our lives and others with a kind of clarity.
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00:09:01 Rachel: Oh darn, Im too late! lol 00:11:41 Daniel Allen: Where are we at? 00:11:58 Carol Nypaver: 123 00:16:59 Anthony: This may be the movie. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhKorITYvDU 00:44:03 Rachel: I LOVE that story! Because I am a twin, so I understand very much! 00:45:02 Rachel: Wait, weren't they twin brother and sister? I could be wrong... 00:45:33 renwitter: Yes :-) 00:52:38 Anthony: This story also indicates that the monastics were not completely cut of from their families....St. Ioannikos had to have known of his brother-in-law's rage for him to pray for his brother-in-law. 00:54:34 Rachel: :) 01:00:07 jack: Their human dignity 01:01:30 Rachel: Please share the talk by Kallistos Ware!🙏🏼 01:02:10 Anthony: This disfigurement of the image of ChristI think distinguishes our understanding of sin from _Total Depravity_ of the Calvinists. 01:03:00 Rachel: WOw, wow, wow! Thank you!! 01:03:12 Erick Chastain: that's great! 01:05:09 renwitter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Body_of_the_Dead_Christ_in_the_Tomb 01:08:15 Erick Chastain: which book by Mectilde de bar are you reading now? 01:08:17 Rachel: Oh my goodness. One of my favorite readings. 01:08:33 renwitter: Breviary of Fire 01:08:42 Erick Chastain: thanks 01:09:17 Daniel Allen: What caryll hauls lander book was that quote from? 01:10:46 Carol: I think it may be Rocking-Horse Catholic 01:12:29 Daniel Allen: Thanks 01:13:44 Rachel: I had never heard Fr. Abernathy's interpretation but the one Anthony stated. I don't think they conflict though, as the intention of the heart, the lengths this child was willing to go to in order to live the life of a monk in this community. 01:16:35 Rachel: Yes, exactly. This is one special case. 01:17:03 Rachel: St. Rose of Lima used to try to make her face ugly. 01:17:37 Rachel: Not because she thought the gift of beauty was bad. 01:19:06 Rachel: It is jarring because of the reality of disordered passions. 01:19:26 Anthony: Sometimes the young saints need correctives: like St Simeon Stylite went too far in his penances. We need to be sane, not crazy. 01:20:23 Erick Chastain: Some are fools for Christ 01:21:01 Rachel: Yes, I do not tell my non Catholic family or, even some fellow Catholic these stories of the Saints. Because I think it would cause scandal and be too jarring. 01:22:40 Forrest Cavalier: In the story here, if the scandal was temptation, the knowledge of paternity was not enough to protect him in one skete, and he expresses doubts that it will go better when it is not known. He was desperate. 01:24:40 Ambrose Little: Doesn’t seem to follow why they’d focus on the paternity, if it were just youthful attractiveness? Maybe nepotism? Maybe they had a rule against father-son in same monastery? 01:25:41 renwitter: I agree. It seems to me that the scandal really was the Paternity 01:26:36 Anthony: I usually thought of nepotism in Middle Ages. It didn't occur to me to read it here. It could fit. 01:26:48 renwitter: Why else would the problem the son presents be that everyone knows they are Father and Son, and they will know it at the next place to? I thought he disfigured himself so that no one would see the resemblance. 01:29:00 Ambrose Little: I always look at the particularly self-disciplining saints as a kind of object lesson—they are showing just how far we are from where we ought to be. The saintliness came first; they were called to these penances, presumably, for a reason, if their wills were unified with God’s, as is the idea for sanctification. 01:29:57 sue and mark: while I do not know much, I have always heard that holiness is always beautifully balanced. 01:30:51 Rachel: Thank you, God bless! 01:31:10 David Fraley: This was great! Thank you!
Thank you to everyone who participated in tonight's group on St. Theophan's Letters on the Spiritual Life to Anastasia. Great conversation as always.
Synopsis:
Tonight we read letter 74 entitled “Yearning for the monastic life”. Anastasia has made a decision to enter the monastery; she has decided to give herself over completely to God in mind and body. And yet, Theophan senses within her a kind of urgency that is pressing her forward and making her want to rush the moment of her entrance. He wants her, however, to pray and wait with patience. He does not want her to enter the religious life in a willful fashion precisely because she’s entering in order to set aside her will in the spirit of obedience. Thus, she should strive to let God act in her life and open the door for her to enter in the time He desires. For the moment she is to focus upon embracing the life of a monastic at home; deepening her spiritual life, living in obedience to her parents, making herself a novice in relationship to all of her siblings. She is to be, as it were, a soldier in training; humbling herself and preparing herself for the rigors of the religious life. Such waiting takes nothing from her. In fact it serves her by allowing her to mature emotionally and spiritually precisely that she might endure in her vocation. He reminds her of the history behind such a vocation. In the beginning monasteries did not exist - nor vows. What existed were men and women filled with a desire and yearning for God and it is this spirit that she must foster. She must enflame the desire for God within her own heart by being faithful in the moment. She must wait and adapt her life and her habits to those in the monastery. But most of all she must wait upon the Lord who says “Come follow Me”!
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Text of chat during the group:
00:06:26 Rachel: How do I get a snazzy picture like that?? 00:19:23 Anthony: And some people had her religious desire, but God (I suppose) chose them never to enter a community, such as Benedict Labre or the Pilgrim of the Russian classic. 00:28:05 Edward Kleinguetl: "Gentle, organic approach" -- love it! 00:31:20 Anthony: FYI under the Lombard Laws of the 600's to about 800s or so, Vowed and nonvowed persons living a religious life were both recognized as having special protection against violation by criminals. One living the life but not vowed as treated as or just about as at the state of a religious person. 00:38:09 Anthony: "The Ancient Path" is Talbot's book about his community 01:14:26 Wayne Mackenzie: got to go see you monday 01:16:24 Anthony: We in the West are sometimes formed by a relatively small cadre of Western Catholics, too....and that is magnified by the psychologies of certain persons who choose messages to magnify to the rest of us. 01:17:11 Rachel: I do have to say that put here in California, I am blessed with a wonderful grace filled parish. 🙏 01:17:31 Edward Kleinguetl: Rachel, that is great! 01:20:38 Rachel: Even though I do and have encountered hesitation about the desert Fathers, when I point out how there are western Saints who teach and lived the same way, who loved the desert Fathers and read quotes from the desert Fathers, people start usually listening. I then refer them to the Oratory talks. 01:21:27 Edward Kleinguetl: Evagrios the Solitary: “If you are a theologian you truly pray. If you truly pray you are a theologian.” This is what we lost in the West when spirituality was separated from theology. 01:21:48 Rachel: I think I am, but, have never been. I know about th Orthodox parish downtown and go pray Vespers sometimes with them. a beautiful church. 01:22:02 Rachel: I am in Sacramento. 01:23:45 Rachel: I'm I'm rad Trad too lol 01:24:15 Anthony: Pope Francis elevated St. Gregory of Narek as Dr of the Church though he was canonically in Armenian Apostolic Church. And WOW is Gregory's works beautiful. 01:24:45 Edward Kleinguetl: Details 😀 01:26:39 Miron Kerul Kmec: Thank you Father
Thank you once again to everyone who participated in tonight's group on The Evergetinos. Your deep reading of the text always inspires me and fills me with a greater thirst and desire for Christ and a more radical embrace of the Gospel.
Synopsis:
We continued our reading of Hypothesis 15, reflecting upon the kind of exile that the monks embraced; an exile that was not rooted in a hatred of the world but rather in an absolute response to Christ’s call “follow me”. In this the monks become living icons of the gospel and of Christ who said that his food was to do the will of the heavenly Father.
Over and over again in the stories we are taken into a deeper view of the nature of love. Our love as human beings must be perfected by the grace of God and directed by His providence for it to be a bear fruit that is worthy of the kingdom and that will endure. In this sense we must be guided by prudence; not simply responding to our first emotional reaction to certain circumstances nor allowing ourselves to be drawn into things that might stir the remembrance of things that can lead us away from God’s Providential will into self-will. We are, in our lives, to be guided by the Spirit of God and to put on the mind of Christ.
This is the focal point of our lives; not being catalysts for social change in the world but rather allowing the grace of God to be the catalyst of change within our hearts. We are to be guided by the virtues that have God as their object - faith, hope, and love. These alone draw us to God’s desired end which is life in Him and Love eternal.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:07:55 FrDavid Abernethy, CO: Sorry Dave Fraley. No snacks 00:08:27 D Fraley: Oh. It was good to see you anyway. Good night! 00:08:37 FrDavid Abernethy, CO: haha 00:24:07 Carol Nypaver: Page? 00:24:17 Ashley Kaschl: 121 00:24:26 Carol Nypaver: TY 00:24:48 Ashley Kaschl: No prob 00:30:19 Rachel: What? Willfull in our acts of charity?? 🙏🏼🙇🏼♀️ 00:32:11 Mark Kelly: Another desert story about being “on fire.” Abba Lot went to see abba Joseph and he said to him, "Abba, as far as I can, I say my little office, I fast a little, I pray and meditate, I live in peace and as far as I can I purify my thoughts. What else can I do?" Then the old man stood up and streched his hands toward heaven; his fingers became like ten lamps of fire and he said to him, "If you will, you can become all flame." 00:33:29 Ambrose Little: Maybe Joseph did crack Jesus upside the head for that, so that’s why He went ahead and performed a miracle. 00:53:32 Rachel: Yes, The asceticism of the thoughts, taking every thought captive, can seem to make one feel as if they are doing violence to themselves. In a way, they are, to their old self. But, I heard a priest once say no to do violence to oneself. The only way I reconciled this seeming contradiction of my experience and Father's advice, is to go and stay with Christ. The priests cannot heal what has been broken, only Christ can so it forces one to stay, with Christ and be patient to let Christ heal, the heart in His way, in His time. 00:54:15 Rachel: Ugh, this was meant for Father Abernathy. 01:17:08 Forrest Cavalier: It has to be both/and, not either/or. Christianity meets the world in its present. 01:17:24 Rachel: Yes, very happy note! lol 01:18:19 Eric Williams: Gee, are you saying the Church shouldn’t enthusiastically deploy reliable catalysts for change? ;) 01:19:12 Rachel: Yes Ren!! Thank you!! 01:19:31 Ambrose Little: We gotta also avoid substituting seeking exceptionalism for authentic discipleship. 01:19:33 Forrest Cavalier: Can we say "apostles" instead of "reliable catalysts for change"? 01:20:00 Eric Williams: I got that whole phrase from a corporate buzzword generator ;) 01:20:23 Forrest Cavalier: Oh, good. I thought it came from a synodality document! 01:20:37 Forrest Cavalier: A little of both, Father. 01:21:58 Forrest Cavalier: Amen! 01:23:41 Miron Kerul Kmec: Thank you Father 01:23:47 Rachel: Thank you God bless! 01:23:49 Mitchell Hunt: thank you 01:23:50 D Fraley: Thank you, Father!
Tonight we concluded letter 73 to Anastasia. Once again St. Theophan is seeking to help prepare her for the path that God has called her to take. Even though she is still living at home she is not to remove her hand, as it were, from the plow or look back. She must keep her focus intently upon Christ and not lose that gaze even for a moment. Walk circumspectly, he tells her. Guard your heart in all the ways that you have been shown - for God is a jealous God and would have your heart completely. In the rarest of ways she is to be the spouse of Christ, giving herself to him in mind and body and with an undivided heart. She must even admonish herself at times - knowing that she cannot rely upon her zeal or constancy. A life that is lived in half measures is destined for great sadness. This is true and whatever station in life or vocation we find ourselves. The consecrated virgin becomes for us the eschatological sign par excellence; we are destined to share in the fullness of the life of the holy Trinity and to be wrapped in an eternal love that would have us completely.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:32:38 Mark Cummings: The Carmelites describe our union with Christ as a mystical union that is vastly superior to whatever bonds of union may be found in a physical or moral body...a real union, so real that it surpasses all the others "as the grace surpasses nature, and immortal realities surpass perishable realities" 00:36:16 Anthony: A family ideally is a little "monastery," in my opinion, exercising humility, and caring for each other to bring each other to Heaven....and when children grow up and marry, they establish "daughter monasteries" of their initial family. 00:37:13 Mitchell Hunt: Important topic, I think the even the married can be internally chaste (withdrawn from lust and the sexual spasm). Similarly a "celebate" can be not chaste behind closed doors 00:46:17 Mark Cummings: As many know, Saint JPII has some great writing on sexuality and love. https://www.jp2.info/JP2_on_Love-Responsibility.pdf 00:49:14 Anthony: 1 Cor 7:14....the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the believing wife. 00:49:37 Anthony: If wifehood is not holiness, she cannot make him holy. 00:52:49 Anthony: 1 Cor 7:7 "but everyone has his proper gift from God" 00:56:23 renwitter: I’ve always loved the term grindstone for the people in our lives who help make us holy. Sandpaper is a good one too though :-D 01:00:26 Anthony: Grindstone - I make my own tools for chasing and repousse. Grindstones and sandpaper are _indispensable_ to getting a polished tool face. If your tools are good, you can make a thing of beauty. 01:02:09 Mark Cummings: We must embrace our crosses. 01:15:28 Miron Kerul Kmec: Thank you 01:15:47 Anthony: OK PAdre
Picking up once again with Hypothesis 15, we find ourselves considering the nature of detachment from the things of the world; a detachment that is rooted first and foremost in our response to the love that God has shown and given us and his only begotten son. What does our embrace of this divine love means for our lives in this world? To take hold of this godly love what is there of the self and our attachment to the things of this world that we must be let go?
So often there are subtle ways that we will cling to natural sensibilities and loves and we view our lives through that lens alone. Yet the Incarnation and the Paschal Mystery is meant to radically reshape our view of what it is to be a human being both in relationship to God and to one another. Our dignity and destiny is caught up in what has been given to us through our baptism - a share in the divine life. It is the faith and hope that this reality evokes that must guide our lives and the decisions that we make.
Inevitably the stories that we read from the fathers of the desert jar our sensibilities, especially when they are very much tied to a worldly perspective. In many ways we must allow ourselves to experience the discomfort of having our perspective on life challenged so radically. God has turned our world upside down in revealing Himself to us. It is that revelation that must shape all we do and our understanding of life.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:03:52 Randi Altman: 🙏 00:11:33 Vicki Nichols: the video is really good. Jerzy Popieluzsko is a very inspiring person 00:38:38 Anthony: I've studied Socialism (philosophically and politically) for years. Socialism is the tyranny that comes from bringing men's vision of "god" and men onto the earth - and you will like it, so to speak. 00:44:06 Anthony: Like St. Paul: 'I begged God three times to take away this thorn of the flesh, but 'My grace is sufficient for thee.'' 00:51:03 Ambrose Little: Christ got told “no” by God, when he asked that “this cup might pass from me.” He needed to live in solidarity with we humans. 00:53:24 Randi Altman: It’s not responsiblity. It is an incredibly beautiful grace!!! 00:58:33 Ambrose Little: You were reading the Bible, largely. ;) 01:07:34 Randi Altman: He wanted or expected more of his son 01:18:45 Randi Altman: Be thankful to have hairs!🤣 01:19:14 Daniel Allen: Perfect closing insight. 01:19:55 Michael Winn: Thank you, Father! (my first time here - Ukrainian Greek Catholic priest in Winnipeg) 01:19:57 Randi Altman: Thank you for having me 01:20:19 maureencunningham: When. Saint John 01:20:23 Mitchell Hunt: thanks Father David 01:20:33 D Fraley: Good night!
This evening we picked up with the letter 72 where is Saint Theophan begins to engage Anastasia about the decision that she has made to become a religious. More than ever it is necessary to become closer to God, he tells her. She must fix her mind on the remembrance of God in every circumstance. Likewise she is to hold onto the remembrance of death in order that she might lose fear of everything within this world and also to order everything to its ultimate end and the final judgment. In other words, she must work harder than ever to clarify her vision and her desire. She must set about her life a little more decisively and await the fulfillment of her calling with patience.
In Letter 73, Theophan begins to focus with Anastasia upon what is at the heart of this vocation: chastity or consecrated virginity to be more specific in her case. God has called her to Himself with a kind of jealous love, desiring that she give herself over to him in mind and body. Although never having set out to lead her upon such a path, Theophan is overjoyed for her and gives thanks to God for the calling. The decision has been made but she is so far from the actual deed. Therefore, she must not fall into naïveté but rather realize that the enemy will seek to beguile her through his subtlety. She must remain sober and awake, vigilant and prayerful. The enemy can attack at any moment. She has been especially blessed by God to walk along this path that has existed from apostolic times; and so she must seek to treat it as the most precious of gifts.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:29:47 Carol Nypaver: For how long was she under the spiritual direction of St. Theophan? 00:32:13 Lyle: And it is never, never, NEVER too late to desire that CHANGE. 00:35:01 Lyle: In spite of those "barriers", God's Spirit has led and WILL lead "seekers" to Him. 00:38:22 Mitchell Hunt: Every Apprentice needs a Master/Masters to learn from 00:48:04 Mark Cummings: I believe it will be a worthwhile exercise to review the Letters again and write down the things that will help me to map out the way to a deeper relationship with Jesus. Off the top of my head, simplifying, asceticism, memorizing key scripture/psalms, mortification, prayer (prayer rule, the Jesus prayer,etc), guarding against sin and avoiding the near occasion of sin by avoiding spending time with those that may contribute to my corruption., recognizing and embracing the Grace of God, the list seems to go on and on. If someone has already gone through the exercise of creating this map of the Letters then please let me know if you will share it. 01:17:39 Anthony: In Dante's Paradiso, the soul is drawn upward to God by the gravity of love. 01:19:34 Ashley Kaschl: A book that gives greater clarity on the charism of celibacy and speaks more on virginity is “And You are Christ’s” by Thomas Dubay, if anyone wanted to dive a little deeper into that topic. 01:22:35 Mark Cummings: Saint JP IIs Five loves, according to Jason Evert's book Saint John Paul the Great: His Five Loves, includes Human Love and does a great job of providing a synopsis of Theology of the Body and puts it in to the context of loving God by loving others. 01:27:49 Mark Cummings: Thank you, Father! 01:28:04 Eric Williams: Have a blessed Theophany tomorrow! 01:28:09 Rachel: Thank you Father, and thank you everyone. Great questuons! 01:28:24 Ann Grimak: Thank you 🙏 01:28:25 Rachel: Blessed Theophany! 01:28:40 Erick Chastain: blessed theophany and a happy epiphany to all of you
Tonight we picked up with Hypothesis 15. The focus has been on detachment from the things of this world and the state of exile in which the monks lived. The temptation after leaving all for God is always to be drawn back to the things of the world. These things that draw us are not necessarily evil or sinful but can be quite benign or even very good. Yet even that which is good can be contrary to the will of God. Our responsibility is to embrace His will and to walk the path of salvation that He has set before us and to remain ever faithful to it. Even the love and affection for other that is genuinely good can be something that we make our god. Yet there is one thing necessary - Christ and doing His will. He is the origin and fulfillment of every person’s deepest yearning. He alone can fulfill that longing for love deep within our hearts. We will rationalize or we will follow the subtle deceptions of the Evil One to take any or every path that leads away from God. Therefore we must be ever vigilant and unceasing in our prayer. Ego will always move to the forefront. We will place the self at the center of the universe and convince ourselves that what intellect, reason, or emotion tells us is truth. Thus we must be discriminating of what goes on within and foster a kind of stability that allows us to listen to God and subordinate all things to him. This is true whether one lives in the desert or in the heart of the busiest city.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:08:44 Rachel: ….cricket.... 00:09:43 Rachel: My paint wont dry here in Cali 00:11:45 Rachel: I will be arriving fashionably late to a party because there is no way I am missing the Evergetinos. 😊 lol 00:20:13 Anthony: This creeping back of the world into the consciousness....these fresh attacks of vanity and despicable things....is this why they are always weeping for their sins 00:27:05 Anthony: This is like iconography. Icon don't depict mundane persons but persons purified by Divine Love. 00:46:25 Anthony: phone > Greek for sound > the siren's call to Ulysses to detract him from his mission and shipwreck the crew? 01:08:56 Eric Williams: Biritual! ;) 01:10:26 Mark J. Kelly: Sometimes, when rejected, Christ does say, “Go to another city”. Wisdom and application are important. “Stay in your Cell” is not a fixed command but a wisdom Verba. 01:15:43 Forrest Cavalier: Or cell phone telling us! 01:24:10 Randi: I don’t know how to turn on the mic🙁 01:27:39 Forrest Cavalier: Randi, Can you press Alt+A? That unmutes on windows zoom. 01:31:17 Rachel: Please pray for us! 01:32:41 carolnypaver: Wow! Glad you found your unmute button, Randi! 01:33:01 Mark J. Kelly: Thank you Randi 01:34:57 Randi: I’ve written all your names on the chapel wall 01:35:18 carolnypaver: Thank you very much! 01:36:13 Daniel Allen: Thank you Randi
After a brief hiatus we picked up with our reading of St. Theophan’s letters to Anastasia. We concluded Letter 71 with Theophan’s discussion with Anastasia about the struggle with coldness and prayer. Once again he reminds her of the value of memorizing prayers - in particular the psalms. Yet what is essential is not simply the memorization but rather that she would embrace each word and pray it with a depth of feeling. It is essential that she approach the prayer life not as a task oriented behavior but rather as a spirit guided response to love. There are times when a certain word or prayer will speak to the depths of the heart and she may remain with that prayer for the entire period that she has set aside. The more that she cultivates prayer, the more that she comes to love it, the less need there will be for rules. One thing needs to be understand: prayer is the root of everything!
In letter 72, Theophan is filled with great joy. Anastasia has made a decision to embrace the religious life. He begins by telling her to hold fast to the decision now that it has be made and let it form her thoughts and to further mover her away from worldly desires and pleasures. She is going to live as one completely given over to the Lord. Therefore, she is to kindle that very spirit in which she voiced her decision. Theophan’s initial counsel is to wait patiently. God will test and deepen her desire for this vocation. He will show her how to carry it out. For now, she has to wait and pray in a spirit of obedience and love. Everything that she set out to do in her pursuit of holiness she is to do a little more decisively now. The foundation has been laid; now she must construct the building. Set aside worldly amusements and distractions, Theophan tells her. Become ever more attentive to God’s call.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:14:31 Rachel Pineda: Wow, hello! Good to see everyone. 01:13:09 Anthony: I really appreciate this point....the flip side is the pressure to be a religious / priest if you really want to do something good.' 01:14:53 Anthony: Good point Joanne on our unawareness of lay saints 01:18:31 Anthony: There are lots of lay saints in Lives of the Saints Vol 2, by Catholic Book Publishing Co. 01:18:55 renwitter: As usual, compelled to point out that though she is depicted as if she was, Saint Catherine of Siena was not a religious. Nor was Saint Gemma Galgani, or Saint Kateri, Saint Margaret of Cortona, Saint Monica, Joan of Arc, and so many more. An equally long list on the men’s side. It is very common for Saints to be depicted in the habit of a religious order they were closely associated with, and it came make is seem like they were religious, but they weren’t! I always love finding new lay saints :-) 01:20:14 Ashley Kaschl: Yes! Thank you, Ren. We aren’t taught that as clearly, if at all. 01:21:12 Cathy: Happy New Year Blessing to all!
Tonight we began Hypothesis 15 in The Evergetinos. I think it is safe to say that on the surface it is perhaps one of the most difficult to listen to so deeply is it tied to the monastic commitment and detachment from the world. The fathers speak to us about the abandonment of the world and not communicating even with one’s relatives.
However, upon closer reading we see that this Hypothesis is about much more than than this. The exile the fathers speak of really has to do with what goes on deep within the heart; our willingness to detach ourselves from our own ego and from the things of this world in order to respond fully to God‘s will in our life. In subtle ways we rationalize and we place impediments to our responding fully to God’s call to love. One does not have to be a monk or live in the desert to see this go on within the human heart. If we could see all the moments that we let pass in a given day to refer back all that we do to God and seek always to act in obedience to his will we would weep inconsolably. What the fathers invite us to consider is whether or not we are living for the kingdom or the world; do we seek to do the will of God or to obey our own will.
Christ’s embrace of our humanity elevates our dignity as human beings and what we are capable of doing by the grace of God. We should be willing to sacrifice all to protect that dignity. God has made us one with Him in His Son. Let us rejoice!
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Text of chat during the group:
00:02:27 Eric Williams: Fr Miron, thank you for raising a good son. I very much appreciate having him as my parish priest. 🙂 00:04:32 Miron Kerul Kmec: thank you 00:27:25 Anthony: This is really hard. Since the Enlightenment, the general tendency of intellectual development and education is to "institutionalize" our wills; spiritual/intellectual/material/career avarice has become ingrained in our consciousness as a virtue. 00:39:12 Rachel: God is the one Who is capable! 🙏🏼 00:41:04 Rachel: I totally understand what George is saying, it can seem close to impossible at times when perspective gets skewed out in the world. 01:05:15 Lyle: Page 118: Lord Jesus, may I avoid worldly contacts that are “unprofitable”. 01:12:56 George: the poetry of St John Henry Newman is fantastic 01:13:30 Rachel: your blessing! 01:14:14 Miron Kerul Kmec: Thank you!!! 01:14:17 Rachel: Thank you!! 01:14:40 Rachel: I got mine today!! So happy, what a blessing. Thank you!
Tonight we continued with Letter 71 to Anastasia on “Coldness in Prayer”. St. Theophan is very direct with Anastasia about the causes of this coldness. Typically, it is because we are carrying out our prayer rule hurriedly and haphazardly. Therefore, he tells Anastasia that she must never carry out any spiritual activity as if it were perfectly established, especially prayer. She must to go about her prayer as if she is doing it for the first time; with the zeal of someone who has come to see the beauty of what God has given them. In fact, Theophan tells her that nothing offends God more than praying hurriedly. It is His gift of love and intimacy and if she treats it lightly, he tells her, she should scold herself for such carelessness. Prayer always will bear fruit within our lives. However, we cannot approach it in a utilitarian fashion, simply to accomplish a task. It is God’s greatest gift to us and so we must approach any discipline surrounding it with devotion and love. Even if we create a prayer rule for ourselves, we must understand that it is God who calls us to prayer and it is God who gives it shape and perfects the gift through his own Spirit of Love. When we begin to see prayer in this way, we will long for it and eventually we will find our greatest delight in it.
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00:28:54 Ann Grimak: I am very agree with you Father 00:30:34 Lyle: P. 277: “Acquire prayer from the beginning again, and ask for it from the Lord yourself.” [Jhn 14:RSV] 13 Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it, that the Father may be glori-fied in the Son; 14 if you ask anything in my name, I will do it. Entreat our Lord to help us. He will “do it”, that the Father may be glorified. 00:42:49 Lyle: Thank you, for such valuable COUNSEL. 00:43:06 Anthony: Amen 00:45:45 George: I've noticed that the parishes with the most confession hours have lines for yards on Sunday 00:47:38 Carol Nypaver: That is true. It encourages parishioners to properly prepare for Holy Communion. 00:50:19 Edward Kleinguetl: A number of the Eastern Fathers see Eucharist being an essential part of repentance. Confession removes the worms from the wounds and Eucharist is the healing ointment. They also see it as strengthening us for keeping our commitment to avoid the occasions of sin. 00:50:57 Carol Nypaver: So true. 00:51:15 Anthony: Our economics (in our case, Capitalism) begins in materialism with a deist god (invisible hand) and treats us as commodities (human resources) for large national or international entities (GDPs, our corporate bosses). But this is inhuman. It goes against our created nature. We have to be the men and women we were created and "recreated" to be. 00:54:36 Lyle: I am not a Catholic and I have wrestled with what is really "essential" in my life. Thank you, Deacon Ed. 00:55:42 Rachel Pineda: This can be the whole Christian life. From communion to communion... 00:56:21 Edward Kleinguetl: Spot on, Ren! 00:56:47 Rachel Pineda: LOL 00:56:49 Rachel Pineda: LOL 00:56:52 Edward Kleinguetl: TMI 00:57:19 Rachel Pineda: It's okay Ren, good points btw. 00:59:39 Edward Kleinguetl: We need to desire God above all else. Doubts are all demons that want to pull us away from God. 01:00:34 Edward Kleinguetl: And there will be times when prayer is a struggle -- we are tested relative our fidelity. 01:00:49 Edward Kleinguetl: *relative to our fidelity 01:00:56 Lyle: Amen, Deacon Ed. 01:06:07 renwitter: We need to install a quiet little bell system in the chapel to facilitate this kind of prayer. 01:07:37 Lyle: “An Instantaneous prayer life is impossible. Prayer does not come about as you expect—by just wishing for it, and, suddenly, there it is. This does not happen.” - St. Theophan the Recluse 01:10:56 Edward Kleinguetl: There will be times where we are distracted, sometimes badly. The demons want to pull us out of the prayer. The key, at least to me, is to persist and refuse to give in to the temptation to stop praying because it is not going well. God does not expect perfection in prayer -- St. Paul told us it was impossible. Rather, God wants us to know that we are faithful to him, desiring him above all else. 01:11:33 Edward Kleinguetl: Plus, the Jesus Prayer itself is meant is an aid to create stillness 01:13:16 Rachel Pineda: God bless everyone. Going I to Mass. Happy and Blessed feast! 01:14:11 George: 👍 01:17:26 Lyle: I think I understand. When I DESIRE Him above all else, everything else should/will "fall nto place". 01:18:51 Anthony: Thanks everyone! 01:19:17 maureencunningham: Blessing
We began this evening by discussing solitude and silence as a means to coming to the truth. One does not have to leave the world or live in the desert to experience this. The true desert exists within the heart and so the experience of the solitude more often than not means stilling the heart and avoiding the noise of the world to such an extent that we can listen to God. Outside of doing this we have a truncated experience of life itself and we become the deaf to the voice of love and truth. If God has created us for himself then above all we should want to hear him and to hear his words of love and mercy. The Fathers’ counsel in this regard is very simple; withdrawing to a remote place begins for most of us simply by closing our mouths; by not adding to the noise of the world but rather allowing ourselves to be drawn into the quiet harbor that prayer offers to us.
In Hypothesis 14 the Fathers seek to show us the link between humility and the fear of God. Each complements the other and feeds the other in such a way that they illuminate the heart. Our experience of the otherness and the holiness of God shows us the path to truth. Our acknowledgement of the fact that we will one day come face-to-face with God leads us to face reality now in the present.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:08:44 Rachel Pineda: Hi Father and everyone! 00:09:15 Gabby: Hello Father and everyone. From Australia 00:09:33 Edward Kleinguetl: G-day 00:10:18 Ashley Kaschl: Hey, Rachel! 😁 and welcome, Gabby! 👋 00:13:04 Rachel Pineda: Well, this is really timely. 😬 00:17:48 Rachel Pineda: Oh that is such good news!! 00:19:11 Edward Kleinguetl: Abba Isidore 00:45:49 Anthony: To "second" Rachel, the nothingness of the Calvinist/Lutheran is different than the nothingness of the Catholic/Orthodox 00:52:40 Anthony: And the Master is eminently lovable/adorable, so fear distorts perception of the Master, and fear is a liar about the Master 00:54:02 Rachel Pineda: I just have to add that the Father I mentioned is a wonderful self sacrificing priest who regularly preaches on the love and mercy of God. I was only speaking of staying in the negative thoughts alone. 01:07:35 Erick Chastain: Luther was not led to what he did by medieval asceticism in the augustinians. Look at how Thomas a Kempis and the other Devotio Moderna people remained in the Augustinian order and flourished. Indeed, Luther had many problems and fetishes, the chief among them being a truly diabolical pride. 01:16:29 Rachel Pineda: Thank you Father! Thank you everyone!
Tonight we concluded Letter 70 of Saint Theophan to Anastasia. He speaks to her about the kind of books that she can read, both religious and secular. As with everything, she must be discriminating and cautious about the things to which she exposes herself; acknowledging that not everything is of equal value and some things can be destructive. She is to be discerning and keep her emphasis on the spiritual life. If she reads other things they should reveal to her the wisdom of God as seen in the world that he has created.
Moving on to Letter 71, St. Theophan begins to address Anastasia‘s experience of coldness in prayer. He knows that in her youthfulness her experience of prayer has been limited and has been driven mostly by positive emotional experience. This has led her unfortunately to be less vigilant and disciplined. One can become careless and pray hurriedly without guarding the thoughts or embracing the wisdom of the Fathers. She must humbly acknowledge this carelessness or negligence and ask God specifically to help her to begin again. How true this is often for us as well. Like Anastasia we must often humbly acknowledge before God the ways that we have turned away from him and ask him for forgiveness and the grace to start again.
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00:12:56 renwitter: 😆😆😆 Mark - your picture 😂 00:13:52 Mark Cummings: Arthropods are underrated 00:14:49 Lyle: P. 276: “When a benevolently-minded person who has read some story recommends it, you may read it.” Thank you, Ren and Eric, for suggesting/endorsing - Raniero Can-talamessa’s writings. 00:16:10 Anthony: Internet 00:20:31 carolediclaudio: What page? :) 00:37:39 Lyle: Like her, I neglect to guard my thoughts. 00:38:35 Lyle: Great advice from St. Theophan - “Reprimand yourself, if you will, and threaten yourself with Divine Judgement, and you will begin praying properly.” 00:40:17 Fr. Miron Kerul-Kmec Jr.: St. Silouan - , “Keep Thy Mind in Hell and Despair Not” 00:41:02 Anthony: This way we fail at prayer is like thinking prayer is just another activity, I guess, like playing baseball or mowing the lawn. But it's an activity of a completely different nature. 00:47:30 Edward Kleinguetl: St. Theophan says in the anthology, "The Art of Prayer," we should learn to enjoy prayer. 00:56:22 Edward Kleinguetl: "a sinner" was added later. The Greeks generally use a shorter form. The key is consistency and the two components. Who Jesus is (Son God) and who we are (a sinner). 00:57:07 Edward Kleinguetl: I like the full prayer. Acknowledging who Jesus is and who we are (a sinner) and what we need (mercy) 00:58:08 Lyle: Amen. Edward. 00:59:22 Edward Kleinguetl: Remember the objective of the prayer -- to still the thoughts. So, consistency is most important 00:59:50 George: thank you. I know this was a basic question and I appreciate everyone's patience 01:01:50 Edward Kleinguetl: Having consistency assists one to interiorize the prayer more deeply and simply become part of our life. 01:02:33 Edward Kleinguetl: I actually wrote the book because of all these questions. Same questions as the high school youth have. 01:04:16 Edward Kleinguetl: Remembrance of God 01:06:02 Edward Kleinguetl: We recognize the actions of God in our lives and we respond with gratitude. We become more attuned to his presence. 01:06:12 Edward Kleinguetl: And previously, we may have missed the subtly of how God reveals himself to us in our daily lives. 01:08:08 Edward Kleinguetl: The Jesus Prayer is the foundation of the spiritual life, but removing it from fasting, ascetical practices, etc. is problematic. It is a way of life. 01:09:23 Edward Kleinguetl: Eastern Christian spirituality is not just the prayer, but a whole rhythm and the prayer cannot be simply isolated if one wants to gain the fruits . 01:10:30 Anthony: Huh. Good point, Father. A good pipe or red wine can bring emotional peace. Exert consumer choice on that, but find some traditional prayer in which to root. 01:11:52 Edward Kleinguetl: And not just fasting and ascetical practices, but also a practice of repentance (daily examination, regular Sacramental Confession, Eucharist, and sobriety--attentiveness to thoughts) 01:12:57 Lyle: Quoted from: https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/prayingintherain/2021/11/on-discernment/ “I want to be with people who genuinely feel the struggle for holiness, and want to be helped by each other, under a Priest with a similar imagination.” 01:12:57 Edward Kleinguetl: Bingo! Some see it as an emotional high and not a rigorous practice. 01:15:24 Rachel: No..not at all 01:18:21 Rachel: Yes!! It was the image of God in the other and staying with Him, in this moment. 01:19:19 Rachel: Stop looking for signs, setting up false idols as you said, ideas of what holiness looks like, Saint Paul said he does not even judge himself. 01:20:07 Anthony: Or. St Thomas Aquinas. At Liberty University, I just knew him as a great philosopher. Now, I see him as a friar and the man who wrote Pange Lingua. 01:21:20 Rachel: Yes! Reading the Fathers can be like signposts along the way and you know it when you get there. Oh that is what that sign meant. But not until you get there. 01:22:28 Lyle: Amen, Father. What a revelation when I was first introduced to "The Fathers". 01:23:02 Edward Kleinguetl: It is not harsh. It is true. American is predominantly rooted in the Protestant tradition. 01:24:08 Edward Kleinguetl: It is worth reading John Tracy Ellis's book, "American Catholicism." Catholics were originally outlawed in the colonies and then went through four major persecutions in US history. 01:25:42 Edward Kleinguetl: "Do not let your hearts be troubled." 01:30:01 Lyle: Never too late! Foreign? Perhaps, but beautiful! 01:31:28 Edward Kleinguetl: Vlachos, "Orthodox Psychotherapy" 01:31:50 Fr. Miron Kerul-Kmec Jr.: Great Book! 01:36:12 Rachel: So sorry, I did not mean to imply there is not a place for psychology.🙏🏼 01:37:11 Rachel: LOL I am going to tell my priests Fr, Abernathy said to lower my expectations. 01:37:18 Rachel: Thank you everyone and Father! 01:37:42 carolediclaudio: lol 01:37:43 Cathy: Another wonderful Wednesday! Thank you Father!!! 01:37:50 Mark Cummings: Thank you! 01:38:15 Rachel: I heard Ren makes prayer ropes!? Last meeting.
Tonight we continued with Hypothesis 13 - considering once again living a remote life; removing oneself from the things of this world and anything that could arouse the passions. So often we find ourselves walking along the edge of a pit, giving no attention to the nature of our thoughts and where they are leading us. It is only by developing that awareness and drawing closer to God through stillness and simplicity of thought that we become further removed from danger.
Once again we are given stories of those who choose different paths in their lives. What comes through clearly in these stories is that all that is done without clarity about what is within one’s own heart and one’s need for God, all that is done outside of the grace of God is fruitless. We are impotent to change the world much less to change ourselves outside of this relationship. We are all called to enter into the desert. We are all called to allow the stormy waters to be stilled by Christ in order that we might see not only the truth about our sin but also see the depths of God’s love and mercy. All is Grace and in this alone do we find true comfort and peace.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:20:27 carolnypaver: Page?? 00:20:39 carolnypaver: Thank you! 00:22:13 Daniel Allen: What page are we on. 00:22:21 carolnypaver: 112 00:22:29 Daniel Allen: Thank you 00:32:09 Anthony: In the Rule of St. Basil, Basil seems to say "we monks have chosen the easier path to single mindedness, but except to marriage, all of us are called to the same standard of going out of the world" And he specifically names going out from apostates. 00:39:39 Lyle: What a blessing to hear that. 00:39:49 Anthony: Is sitting before an icon truly like or equivalent to sitting before the Blessed Sacrament? 00:53:02 Justin Massengill : If everyone wouldn't mind, there is a young girl in my neighborhood who was just diagnosed with leukemia. In your charity please pray for her and her family. Her name is Ila. 00:54:08 Lyle: Will add her to my prayer list. Thanks for sharing. 01:05:21 Justin Massengill : Do the Eastern Fathers and later Byzantine writers ever touch on the phenomena of scrupulosity? 01:11:30 Rachel Pineda: I think Bishop Sheen talks about how one can become very holy, even and perhaps especially, in occupations like a janitor. 01:21:10 Rachel Pineda: Wow!! St. John Climacus, pray for us! 01:23:13 Daniel Allen: “You meant it for evil, but God meant it for good.”
How I cherish these opportunities to read St. Theophan and to share in the rich of the discussion and joy of the members of the group. St. Theophan clearly loves his directee, Anastasia, and this transmits to her and all of us what it is to be in love with Christ and to subordinate all things to Him. Theophan is a true elder if there ever was one!
Synopsis:
Tonight we concluded Letter 69 with St. Theophan‘s discussion of an evangelical preacher that Anastasia had encountered. Again, he warns her to be discriminating in giving this individual any attention. Despite his stressing the importance of the Holy Spirit, which is indeed true, everything else this man says reveals that he knows absolutely nothing about the Spirit or how the Spirit is received. He lacks a sense of the importance of the experience of God, especially in and through the sacramental life. It is through the holy mysteries that God draws us into his life and enlivens us with his Spirit. To lack these realities, failing to participate in them, is to lack that which is essential.
In letter 70, Theophan continues to discuss with Anastasia the importance of discrimination in regards to reading spiritual books and secular books. He begins with two examples - Saint Anthony the Great and Saint Seraphim of Sarov. Neither man was well educated in worldly terms but each had a deep experiential knowledge of God. Pursuing only worldly knowledge, Theophan warns Anastasia, can be detrimental. If it pushes out the life of faith and the primacy of the spiritual life, then it is to be removed for it as a threat to our very salvation. If we are “backwards” in the ways of the world what does that matter to us so long as we have Christ? If we lack many things in this world, including worldly knowledge, but have Christ - we lack nothing!
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Text of chat during the group:
00:09:25 Ashley Kaschl: I have to go 😭 please let me in if I can come back 😂🙏 00:09:34 FrDavid Abernethy, CO: will do! 00:11:10 Anthony: You could make an Old Believer oil lamp. 00:45:07 Anthony: Be backwards. This is like the great satisfaction craftsmen feel, like in my Blacksmith Guild. There is something both backwards and deeply fulfilling in the tradition. 00:46:22 renwitter: You can find the first installment in the series here: https://youtu.be/17NVp4h_aJs 00:47:42 Lilly (Canada): Thank you @Ren :) 00:53:41 Anthony: Seeing no sense in religious life was part of the heresy of "Josephism" in the 1700s/1800s. and I think in Jansenism. 00:55:50 Rachel Pineda: That's a much kinder take on .. "but what do you do?' than I had..lol 01:01:36 Anthony: St Francis Xavier 01:04:07 renwitter: Thats just the tuition for a year, not room and board 01:04:31 Fr. Miron Kerul-Kmec Jr.: 😱 01:11:11 Anthony: Talk show host Michael Savage embodied this struggle with Cynicism, and reality. 01:11:38 Eric Williams: An ironic quote from an atheist: “Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.” Friedrich Nietzsche 01:19:33 Eric Williams: Church as NGO. Ugh. 01:20:28 George: God bless. Happy Thanksgiving, everybody.✌️ 01:20:37 Lilly (Canada): Thank you Father 01:20:43 Rachel Pineda: lol 01:20:58 Rachel Pineda: Thank you Father and everyone! 01:21:08 Rachel Pineda: God bless and Happy Thanksgiving. 01:21:09 Ann Grimak: Thank you 🙏 Father 01:21:13 Eric Williams: We're all gluttons! Get thee to confession! ;) 01:22:21 Anthony: Thank you! 01:23:01 sue and mark: God bless you Father. Will pray for all
Tonight we continued our discussion of hypothesis 13. The fundamental focus is a turning away from the things of this world; not because they are evil in and of themselves but rather because of our capacity to make them ends in themselves. We can be seduced, as it were, by our own desires or by the evil one into seeking our identity in the things of this world. This can be obvious or ever so subtle, but it has the same effect; we get caught up in what is false and delusional.
To combat this we must avoid certain comforts and avoid the softness to which we tend. The habits that we fall into are only overcome by asceticism - by striving to exercise our faith in such away that it orders our desires and keeps us away from diversions. Asceticism is not simply about self-restraint. It is about removing every impediment to loving God and giving ourselves in love. Thus, Christ himself becomes the standard for us - from his struggle in the desert with the devil to his embrace of the Cross on Mount Calvary.
We must cling to our identity in Christ. We must set aside the false self and live for God who alone satisfies the deepest desires of the human heart.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:01:34 D Fraley: Hello everyone. 00:01:49 FrDavid Abernethy, CO: Navy Dave! 00:17:15 Lilly (Canada): What page are we on? 00:17:38 Fr. Miron Kerul-Kmec Jr.: 110 00:27:46 Anthony: How hard it is for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven? 00:29:39 Justin Massengill : Iv'e heard St Francis described as a western fool-for-Christ. 00:36:26 Anthony: Then it seems to me that a mortal sin happens when the will is fully drawn after errant senses. 00:45:24 Anthony: False truth, false goodness, false beauty 00:46:41 Anthony: Erick, E. Michael Jones has a decent overview of how modern science was partly driven by the drive to pursue magic 01:04:43 Eric Williams: Some monasteries sell coffee beans. ;) 01:05:05 Erick Chastain: Mount athos offers coffee to guests 01:05:28 Eric Williams: There is no field! 😛 01:06:05 Justin Massengill : I heard they don't bathe on Mt Athos 01:13:27 Rachel: Yay! St Gregory! 01:14:21 D Fraley: Thank you Father! 01:14:31 Rachel: Thanks everyone. Good questions and comments!
Wow! What a wonderful and spirited discussion tonight! We certainly approached some topics - both personal and cultural - that were weighty and deserving of extra time and attention. Thank you all for you great questions and comments as always!
Synopsis:
Tonight we continued with Letter 69 on depression and fear.
Theophan‘s focus, however, shifts to speaking about things that could possibly draw Anastasia away from the fullness of the faith, make her question her practice of the faith, or the path that she has been set upon.
An old friendship had been broken off. Yet Theophan would not have her try to preserve the relationship at the cost of something greater. Certain relationships falter over time or become toxic. Anastasia should simply be at peace and act charitably towards this past friend, but not seek to immerse herself once again in a relationship that could not bear good fruit.
Likewise, Theophan then began to express his concerns about someone who saw himself as an apostle; one who was evangelical in spirit and who had inserted himself into the Russian culture proclaiming a gospel and a faith of his own; creating something that was disconnected from the lived reality of the Church. For similar reasons, then, Theophan would have her avoid this man at all costs. She had the fullness of the faith as well as the participation in the Holy Mysteries. She should not substitute this for the particular charisms of a single man. Throughout the centuries the church has been attacked by various heresies and she must see her personal spiritual struggle in light of that broader context.
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00:07:29 FrDavid Abernethy, CO: Starting on page 270 with “That you broke off” 00:11:29 Lyle: Hope everyone had a good week. I'll be right back. A stray dog showed up. 00:54:28 Eric Williams: Regarding Christians of separated and deficient sects, perhaps these lines from St John’s gospel apply: “And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd.” 01:03:13 Ann Grimak: I am very agree Father 01:15:24 Wayne Mackenzie: gotta go 01:17:46 Ann Grimak: Love is not emotional,love is very deep 01:20:20 renwitter: Also, just want to put out there, for anyone who has not heard of him or read him: If there is interest in reading something that witnesses to, as Father says, a great integration of life in the spirit, as understood in recent times, and faithfulness to the Church, check out Raniero Cantalamessa. He is quite extraordinary, and has been the Preacher to the Papal Household chosen personally by Saint John Paul II, Benedict XVI and Pope Francis. My favorites of his are St. Francis and the Cross, Virginity (not really about virginity, per se, but rather the celibate vocations), and, most relevant to this discussion, Sober Intoxication of the Spirit. 01:21:50 Lyle: Thanks, Ren. 01:23:06 Rachel: Wonderful class! Thank you, God bless everyone. 🙏 01:23:11 Eric Williams: I’ll second that recommendation. I haven’t read those particular books, but the ones I have read have been superb - and short! 01:24:43 Anthony: Msgr. Knox has a good criticism on Enthusiastic movements. The podcast "Paleocrat Diaries" recently conducted a survey of the book. 01:27:13 renwitter: The full text of the verse: Though with a scornful wonder Men see her sore oppressed, By schisms rent asunder, By heresies distressed, Yet saints their watch are keeping; Their cry goes up, "How long?" And soon the night of weeping Shall be the morn of song. 01:28:10 Anthony: Protestantism by nature lacks the standpoint to determine with authority what is heresy; by nature, then, it must, to be consistent, tolerate heresy among itself. 01:44:39 George: a lot of the problems of sectarianism, charismatics, etc which have been discussed tonight could be easily resolved with a greater exercise of the incensive power. far too many profane thoughts, preliminary judgements, ecstatic emotions. it's like a shipwrecked body being dragged down a craggy ravine. the notion of the incensive power is one of the Eastern Church's greatest gifts. 01:45:49 Anthony: St. Theophan's concern regarding the English sectarian reminds me of the great damage to persons' faith done by "Family Radio" for years. That kind of potential damage must be cut off. 01:45:55 Andreea and Anthony: The book from which I read the quotes of the Second Vatican Council, Blessed Pope Paul VI, Pope St. John Paul II, and Pope Benedict XVI is “Lord Renew Your Wonders: Spiritual Gifts for Today” by Damian Stayne, the founder of the Catholic community Cor et Lumen Christi recognized by the Vatican. 01:46:38 Ann Grimak: Thank you 🙏 Father
Tonight‘s discussion drew the group into what was more and more beautiful. Hypothesis 13 is focused upon remoteness; but not simply a physical remoteness - the removing of ourselves from our external realities and circumstances. Rather, it is removing ourselves from our attachment to the things of this world. The Scriptures tell us that he who loves the world is at enmity with God. As we strive to draw close to God we are led to let go of our attachment not only to the things of this world but to the internal identity that has often been shaped by them. More and more we are to put on the mind of Christ and this means not only dying to sin but to self. Throughout the course of our life we often fashion a false identity. We succumb to the illusion, even in the most subtle of ways, that our lives can be understood outside of the context of our relationship with God as our Creator and Redeemer. The more that we embrace that illusion the more isolated we become from God and one another. We lose a true sense of who we are and our inherent value. However, God does not abandon us in the state of spiritual sadness but rather enters into it and by His grace draws us to Himself in the most beautiful way. He reveals Himself in our deepest weakness and vulnerability and it is there that we see the depths of His love. Suddenly all that is dark and ugly, all that seems most empty within our hearts, becomes filled with His light and the hope that He alone offers.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:04:53 Rachel Pineda: Hello to the group...cant hear anything as I put it on mute because my Mom showed up for a bit. God bless to all. 00:09:19 Rachel Pineda: Some of my kids want to say hello to the group...we have been listening to the podcasts in the car 00:09:50 D Fraley: I was told there would be snacks. 00:10:13 Rachel Pineda: lol 00:10:58 D Fraley: I have stale pretzels but not enough for everyone. 00:11:11 Rachel Pineda: Prayers! 00:18:19 Anthony: Dante: I found myself in the midday of my life, alone in the dark woods.... 00:19:22 Ashley Kaschl: Would this demon of sadness be the noonday devil (Acedia)? 00:20:42 Anthony: Ashley, acedia the closest I can think of to this "feeling," but it sounds a bit different? 00:23:58 Mark J. Kelly: Yes. Acedie is the Noon Day Demon 00:28:17 Anthony: huh. And on the natural level, don't drink when you are sad. 00:33:23 Mark J. Kelly: Excellent book on Acedia or Spiritual Depression: The Noonday Devil: Acedia, the Unnamed Evil of Our Times. https://www.amazon.com/Noonday-Devil-Acedia-Unnamed-Times/dp/158617939X/ 00:43:40 Anthony: If we had Dom Lorenzo Scupoli's attitude, that God is a fire (of love?) and we submit our own fires of atraction and of sin to that fire "of" God, to be taken over by God, we can pass through and from this life more easily. 00:55:23 Ashley Kaschl: Reminds me of a quote by Michael D O’Brien "...This silence before God and man is the presence of being. Such silence speaks! Then when one's spoken words flow, they come from the true heart of one's unique identity. An identity that only the Father in Heaven knows, for it is hidden even from our own eyes." (Island of the World) 00:59:44 Lilly (Toronto, CA): Great books written by JPII about that topic “Man and Woman He Created Them” and “Love and Responsibility” :) 01:01:05 Carol Nypaver: Both are excellent books, Lilly! 01:10:50 Justin Massengill : Gotta go early, see you all on Wednesday, God bless! 01:15:06 Lilly (Toronto, CA): Great question @Rachel and excellent response @Fr David !! 01:21:04 Wayne Mackenzie: gota go 01:24:48 Carol Nypaver: Blessings to you, Father. 01:25:43 Rachel: The group and readings are a blessing. Thank you. Prayers! 01:25:46 D Fraley: Thank you, Father David!
Tonight we began by reading the last few paragraphs of Letter 68 to Anastasia. Here Saint Theophan tells her that she is to avoid secretiveness in the spiritual life. While privacy is certainly to be valued, in the spiritual life the revelation of one’s thoughts to one’s Confessor or Spiritual Director becomes essential. The evil one through illusory qualities leads us into deception and confuses our affairs. He watches and examines all that we think and do and, at times, even seeks to use suggestions that are good to disguise his provocations. Theophan tells Anastasia that reason alone will ultimately fail her and the evil one will seek to insert his own advice to muddy the waters and to lead her down a path that is not from God. Mistakes, he tells her, will surely come; but they will also show her how to act correctly the next time.
Moving forward to Letter 69, we find Theophan addressing a ubiquitous reality for us as human beings; the struggle with depression and fear. Surprised that Anastasia is experiencing such things, Theophan asks her to examine her life. Is she living close to God, is she seeking to please him in every way? It is in doing so that she will root herself in enduring peace.
He goes on to discuss some of the causes of depression. Amusements, while they may be a gift from God and innocent can be destructive if they are not embraced in moderation. Furthermore, if they are too pleasant they will be unable to content the heart or we will be tempted to seek fulfillment within them. We must be very clear about the goal of life that we have chosen for ourselves and that it always remains in force. God is asking for our hearts and the heart desires God. We are made for Him and can only find true peace by living within Him. Without God our hearts are never satisfied; they are always bored and so we must examine ourselves from this aspect. When we do so, perhaps then we will find the door to peace.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:17:17 Rachel: 😬 00:31:55 Anthony: "Let us entrust ourselves and one another and our whole lives to Christ our God." "To You O Lord." ~Liturgy of St John Chrysostom 00:37:45 Rachel: I love how he doesn't seem to spell it out for her...he proposes a question, for her to ponder. 00:49:17 Ashley Kaschl: This is especially why we shouldn’t flirt to convert 😂 00:50:20 renwitter: Is that advice from experience, Ashley? 😉😂 00:51:38 Ashley Kaschl: Second hand 😂 I ain’t got time for that 00:53:47 Lilly (Toronto, CA): Lol Ashley. Same girl, same. God totally fills that void. :) 00:57:09 renwitter: The flirting void? 🧐 Hey! He’s never flirted with me 😉. Or are you flirting with Him? Batting your eyelashes at Him in Adoration, eh? 00:57:34 Lilly (Toronto, CA): Lol Ren. 00:58:40 Wayne Mackenzie: no sense of sacrice 01:00:29 Joseph Muir: A lot of younger people come from such broken family backgrounds that they don’t know what a healthy relationship is or what it should look like, and thus don’t know how to pursue or maintain a healthy relationship. I’m not making excuses, per se, as some of it does stem from narcissism and/or bankrupt worldviews; but, many are truly aching for love in an authentic sense, yet haven’t a clue as to how seek it out 01:00:39 Lilly (Toronto, CA): Totes jealous of all that time you spend with Him at Adoration ;) 01:04:36 Anthony: I've studies the Stoics and am studying their predecessors, the Cynics. The Fathers, in their humility, in their cosmology, are definitely not either; they do incorporate some sense of virtue and of being the fool, but they purify those themes. 01:05:13 Lilly (Toronto, CA): 100% agree with you Joseph. Next generation is even more broken, being taught such sad ideas of what love is 01:06:54 Lilly (Toronto, CA): Thankful for Everyone’s prayers, by the way. Blessed to be back. :) 01:08:20 Wayne Mackenzie: Well their sense of love is not grounded in anything. 01:11:44 Wayne Mackenzie: Further to Joseph's comments...want the pleasure without responsibility 01:17:01 Lilly (Toronto, CA): Wayne…exactly :( 01:18:33 iPhone: ideally, we would have the log removed from our eye before we enter marriage. 01:19:10 Joseph Muir: While I don’t entirely disagree, in regards to being empathetic, with divorce rates being firmly north of 50%, with many people being divorced multiple times, how can children from these parents learn or know what an authentic, healthy relationship is? Again, I don’t say any of this to excuse things that are outright wrong, and there certainly are promiscuous people who “want the pleasure without responsibility” (I was once one of these people) 01:20:31 iPhone: truly understanding it as a blessed sacrament and living that way is beautiful but the sacramental truth has been lost on most. 01:20:41 Amber Hackiewicz: Glory to God for All Things is a wonderful akathist written by a priest when in a prison camp. It is a wonderful meditation to do and a wonderful thing to pray to put ourselves back into perspective to where we fit in the world. It brings humility back to the soul in a prideful world. http://www.saintjonah.org/services/thanksgiving.htm 01:21:57 renwitter: “Bless you prison, bless you for being in my life. For there, lying upon the rotting prison straw, I came to realize that the object of life is not prosperity as we are made to believe, but the maturity of the human soul.” 01:22:07 renwitter: - Solzhenitsyn 01:22:58 iPhone: beautiful - thank you 01:23:38 Lyle: Thanks to the Canadians (at least 30,000) who volunteered to serve in the American armed forces during the Vietnam war. At least 134 Canadians died or were reported missing in Vietnam. Don’t forget to “Hug” a Marine today – their 246st Birthday. 01:23:40 Ann Grimak: Thank you so much Father 01:23:49 Amber Hackiewicz: Thank you Father! 01:24:27 Lilly (Toronto, CA): Thanks Lyle. Happy Remembrance Day! 01:25:03 Anthony: An Italo-Greek! 01:25:06 Rachel: I don't really want to talk about depression and anxiety though... 😄 01:25:18 Rachel: Thank you!! God bless :) 01:25:43 Eric Williams: Now we just need Fr David to make the Pittsburgh Oratory bi-ritual .:) 01:26:22 Amber Hackiewicz: As an (almost) Greek Catholic, this makes me happy (: 01:26:29 Rachel: Our Greek Melkite priest here is from Italo Greek heritage.. such an intense and wonderful personality. 01:26:58 Rachel: My kids are scandalized by the group wondering why I didn't get my turn if you all are still talking lol 01:27:01 George: Thanks Father.
Amazing group tonight folks. Thank you all for your comments and questions. Wonderful as always!
Synopsis:
We continued our reading of Hypothesis 13 which puts before us the idea of moving to a remote place, of embracing exile - as it were - for the sake of living for Christ alone. The lives of the desert Fathers call us to let go of our attachment to the things of this world and all that gives us a false sense of security and stability. We are to cling to God alone. We are strangers and exiles in this world and we will be hated by it as Christ himself was hated.
None of this calls to imitate the Fathers by going to the deserts of Egypt but rather to enter into the desert of the human heart. We are to draw back and retreat to Christ in order that we might more clearly see the depths of his love and his promise of life; as well as see the things that are an impediment to it. In our retreat into silence and prayer, and subordinating all things to our relationship with God, we prepare ourselves to fight against the enemies, the demons, until we are made free and reach the rest of the kingdom.
Such a life is not rooted in hard work. We seek our identity not even in the performance of religious activities or driving ourselves relentlessly in the ascetical life. Rather, our worth and identity come to us from what God gives us. All is grace and it is only when we let go of the illusion that this world can provide for and fill the void within our hearts that we will come to know that love in its fullness.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:18:00 Anthony: Clinging to God alone, nothing is secure....well, 2020 ans 2021 have offered us opportunity to ease into that kind of virtue. 00:23:28 Anthony: From historian Charles Coulombe I learned that our valuing of excessive work is a Puritan deformity. 00:33:56 Joseph Muir: Of course there is value in being diligent and having a good work ethic, of being responsible and goal oriented, and of planning for the future. With that said, this tendency of finding one’s identity in their work is, I think, where one veers off course 01:08:49 Justin Massengill : No, Justin is my Christian name which I tend to use since my conversion. 01:14:37 Ambrose Little: It’s hard to put much value in “hard work” without ending up serving it and having it become a significant measure against which we judge ourselves. We cannot serve both God and mammon. Where our treasure is, there is our heart. It seems so very easy to get sucked in, ever so incrementally so that we don’t even realize it’s happening, until one day what started as a tame regard for our how hard we work has become our identity and our master. If on the other hand, we prize above all else pleasing and loving God and making that our only goal, we can guard against that danger. At some point in our lives, this may mean working hard. At another, perhaps when we are sick, it may mean simply offering our suffering to God and offering the simplest of prayers. In health, in sickness, in work, in play—all in God and to God and for God, with gratitude and trust. 01:16:51 Lyle: Like St. Peter, I must "Step Out". 01:18:28 Anthony: Working in the garage late at night can be crazy - irrational with a job to wake up to - but also be a "mystical" moment. 01:22:51 Lyle: They are such great counselors!
Tonight we began letter 68, entitled “The Need for a Good Counselor. However, as we noted, this is something of a misnomer. The bulk of the letter is actually about idle talk and the discussions of men and women. Anastasia mentions that “a rumor went around”. St. Theophan is deeply worried about this. He is worried that Anastasia might see this is a small thing or that she might get caught up in the mindset of those around her that make use of words and their meaning in a hurtful or sinful fashion. Anastasia must allow conscience to guide and direct her and give her the courage that she needs to avoid such conversations. She is always to be prudent in her use of words and never provoke others by her speech or by her demeanor. And even if she becomes the focal point of others’ gossip about the way that she lives her life, again conscience should be her source of comfort and courage. She must not allow herself to be baited into responding by what people say or think about her. Rather she had to be patient until the moment passes and seek to respond equably to everyone that she encounters.
Not surprisingly, much discussion ensued about this matter. Sins of speech are often taken lightly. We are all too willing to judge people by what they do or what they say and to be driven by emotion. Our ego must have no place in our response. Rather, we must put on the mind of Christ and seek to engage all with a humble and loving heart. Meekness is perhaps one of the greatest of virtues. It allows anger in the face of injustice to be shaped by love and by grace. We must withhold judgment when it comes to the other person. Our greatest desire must be to understand, to show loving concern, or to help bring healing and comfort. This is something our world desperately needs and should be a distinctive quality of Christian behavior.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:31:29 Anthony: I think there is a difference between the mode of interpersonal relations and political relations. For prudence, I think we need to modify "charity never judges," for sometimes we need to be ware to protect ourselves. The danger may never come, but maybe it's better to prepare for a possible danger than to be caught flatfooted because you always try to give benefit of doubt. 00:38:28 Wayne Mackenzie: guilty 00:39:13 Cathy: I do this - I think its 00:39:33 Cathy: I think it's impatience 00:43:27 Anthony: Gadfly: Socrates and Kierkegaard 01:01:23 Anthony: In a way, what St. Theophan is encouraging is a spiritual chivalry. The tales of chivalry do include knights with sharp words, but in the best form, chivalry is self control and at the service of love. 01:06:40 renwitter: It is always a powerful thing to hear Jesus describe his own heart with only two virtues: humility and meakness. 01:07:48 renwitter: Maybe as an illumination of the world views meakness…every time I type it, my computer autocorrects it to weakness 😂😂😂 01:28:59 renwitter: “A bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out” 01:34:43 Lyle: Imagine how many of “US” there are out here who want to CONVERT from something, BUT we have NEVER found a Confessor, whom we believe is TRULY “standing in the place of Christ”?
Thank you once again to all who attended The Evergetinos group tonight. The wisdom of the Fathers is breathtaking to say the least!
Tonight we began Hypothesis 13. The focus is on renouncing the world to go to a remote place, what constitutes a remote place, and the specific benefits that we are seeking.
We are all too familiar in this world with isolation. We may be surrounded by many people and our lives filled with so many different things and activities and yet we can feel completely alone and empty.
The Desert Fathers, however, seek the solitude of the desert not to escape the world but rather to seek out Love itself. Their setting aside of country, of material goods, creates within them a need - a need that only God can fulfill. They experience what true desire is - a sense of incompleteness that only God can address.
Solitude and silence are disciplines that we must foster. They are not something simply to be endured and they are not rooted in a contempt for the world. In the silence and in our poverty we begin to experience the development of true humility; a humility that allows us to see the truth about ourselves and the goodness, the mercy, and love of God.
Thus, gradually we come to see through them that the experience of exile, poverty and solitude hold within themselves a priceless treasure that we must be willing to do everything to possess.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:08:36 D Fraley: I had hair when I first come to the Oratory too. 00:08:48 Ed Kleinguetl: Must be a trend 00:33:45 Eric Williams: Certainly no (or limited and hushed) chit-chat in my childhood Lutheran church nave. 00:34:43 renwitter: What is the name of the place Mark? 00:36:00 mark: I will send a link… 00:36:13 Ed Kleinguetl: Thank you! 00:36:54 maureencunningham: Holy Presence Monastery inToms Brook and The Holy Abbey in Berryville VA. silent retreats 00:37:03 maureencunningham: Both VA 00:37:15 Eric Williams: I have noticed a paradox as someone with ADHD. Long periods of silence and stillness are very difficult for me, but the cure seems to be more silence. It’s very challenging. Modern technology seems to be making most people struggle with quiet inactivity in a similar way. 00:37:51 mark: Our Lady in Beatitude. The Monastic Family of Bethlehem. https://www.monasteryofbethlehemnewyork.com/ 00:40:25 Eric Williams: As a convert, I really don’t miss marathon sermons. ;) 00:42:03 Ambrose Little: Agree, Eric. 00:45:37 Wayne Mackenzie: what page? 00:45:50 Tyler Woloshyn: 106 00:46:37 Eric Williams: I’ve noticed that at low Latin masses, the processions are from and to the sacristy. I’ve also seen high masses in which the opening procession starts at the sacristy, continues to the back, and finishes going up the middle aisle. Perhaps that would be a good corrective model for the whole Western Church. 00:49:40 Ambrose Little: Cultivating interior silence in the midst of external noise and busy-ness is a good ascetic practice. Maybe we focus there, even if others around us aren’t doing the same. 01:18:07 Ambrose Little: Sorry. I gotta run. I will say having six boys helps one find quietude in noise. :D Have a blessed week, y'all. 01:18:14 Wayne Mackenzie: got to go 01:18:39 Tyler Woloshyn: Have a good night. God bless! :) 01:23:25 D Fraley: Thank you Father David. Good night, everyone!
Tonight we concluded Letter 67. As we have seen in previous letters and as Theophan progresses in his teaching of Anastasia, he draws her ever deeper into the wisdom of the fathers. He picks up this evening speaking with her again about the importance of confessing all of one’s sins; not judging those that seem small or great but rather confessing everything that is contrary to the will and the love of God. No sin is ever to be deliberately omitted. If omitted - in essence it is unresolved. If ignored it will not be fully uprooted.
Theophan then moves on to address the importance of unceasing prayer. This little prayer that he taught her, the Jesus Prayer, he tells Anastasia, is a great treasure. In fact, it has no equal among spiritual activities. This is an extraordinary statement. He is telling Anastasia that the constant remembrance of God is not simply a spiritual practice or a discipline; it is seeking to “become” prayer. It is to live and move and breathe as one who seeks to and truly lives in constant communion with God. It is so important, he tells her, that she must exclude herself from any of the group who may be inattentive. She must never forget to turn the mind’s eye to the Lord or at least maintain the feeling that He is near. Turning mentally to God with reverence in the heart is already prayer. Whatever our struggles might be, whatever temptations we might experience against this practice, we must understand that God sees the desire and love within the heart.
Furthermore, we must start the morning in the right way for it will set the tone for the entire day. We must read the gospel and other spiritual books the confirm ideas within us about what is truly worthwhile. Above all we must hear the voice of conscience; the voice of the omnipresent God in the soul. Theophan writes: “He who is in the world with the conscience is also in the world with God.”
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Text of chat during the group:
00:08:21 Ashley Kaschl: I’m not on video right now cause I’m jump-starting my car 😂 but hey everybody! 00:23:23 sue and mark: pg 155 speaks of thoedoras toll-houses. 00:26:01 carolnypaver: Page #? 00:33:52 Joseph Muir: For in this tent we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling— if indeed, when we have taken it off we will not be found naked. For while we are still in this tent, we groan under our burden, because we wish not to be unclothed but to be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. 2 Corinthians 5:2-5 00:35:13 Joseph Muir: On this subject, here is a beautiful prayer that is part of my morning offering, and which I try to pray at least once more throughout the day: O Lord, I know not what to ask of You. You alone know what are my true needs. You love me more than I myself know how to love. Help me to see my real needs which are concealed from me. I dare not ask either cross or consolation. I can only wait on You. My heart is open to You. Visit and help me for Your great mercy’s sake. Strike me and heal me. Cast me down and raise me up. I worship in silence Your holy will and Your unsearchable ways. I offer myself as a sacrifice to You. I have no desire other than to fulfill Your will. Teach me how to pray. Do You Yourself pray in me. Amen. 00:44:25 Lyle: No one practicing the “Jesus Prayer” succeeds immediately. It must be “practiced”. The demons are constantly vying for EVERY thought. 00:45:45 carolnypaver: Very true, Lyle. 01:06:21 Lyle: Some critics of the "Jesus Prayer" say that it is no more than a mantra - (a word or sound repeated to aid concentration in meditation, such as within Buddhism or Hinduism.) Hundreds of years and THOUSANDS of testimonies prove the Prayer to be helpful. 01:07:21 sue and mark: what about the rosary and divine mercy 01:12:06 Joseph Muir: That is a common criticism from many Protestants, accusing it of being “vain repetition”. Growing up in the Bible Belt, I had to learn how to explain the faith in a way that spoke to where a common evangelical mindset may be. With that said, I was quick to tell them that Christ didn’t condemn repetition itself, but specifically VAIN repetition, with Christ even further describing it as being “like the heathens do”. For “the heathens” of their day, the more one repeated a prayer, the better chance there was of God hearing it. When it comes to something like the Jesus Prayer, the point of the repetition is transform ones entire mind and heart into prayer itself, teaching oneself to pray it with each breath, even, for some of the monastics, with each heartbeat (hence it’s commonly being called “the prayer of the heart”) 01:12:06 sue and mark: as aides to continual prayer 01:19:19 Lyle: The Omnipresent Voice worked for THEM and it will work for US. (There is nothing new under the sun.) 01:20:37 Ashley Kaschl: Thank you, Father! 01:20:48 Rachel: Thank you!
Tonight we concluded Hypothesis 12, again considering the importance of parents raising their children not only to love virtue but also to be willing to sacrifice all for it and for Christ. We considered three stories where mothers had to set aside their natural sensibilities and desire to protect their children from harm. In each case, the mothers act out of their faith to encourage their sons to remain steadfast. We see in and through the stories that they are not only bound by blood but, in a deeper way, by faith. The mothers seek to protect the eternal life of their sons and are willing to sacrifice themselves and their own needs for that end. In doing so they become inheritors of the glory that belongs to the martyrs. Their sons will intercede on their behalf because of the virtue and support that they showed.
These are not easy stories to consider and one is compelled to set aside one’s judgment and to listen to them with faith. We are to see these martyrs and those who support them as living icons of the gospel. In this they will be the most compelling witnesses - those who counted all in this world as refuse compared to the surpassing worth of knowing and gaining Christ.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:30:55 Eric Williams: “The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried.” - GK Chesterton 00:39:05 Anthony: I am friends with several Copts in Hampton VA. Beautiful people, understand suffering. Same with my Iraqi Syriac Catholic friends. 00:42:30 Anthony: Sometimes I wonder what is the dividing line between rigorous ascetic practice ans insanity. Is love the difference? 00:54:33 Ambrose Little: Discernment of the will of God. Union of the will with God, so that the actions flow out of that union. So yes, love in that sense, in that God is love and union with His will is union with Love. There is some danger, it seems, in that persons may seek out the actions for themselves, as a kind of emulation of holiness, when what makes such acts holy is the heart in tune with God’s. 00:55:22 Anthony: Thank you, Ambrose 01:12:45 Carol Nypaver: What is that song called? 01:12:54 Fr. Miron Kerul-Kmec Jr.: billy joel lullabye 01:13:06 Carol Nypaver: Thank you! 01:13:12 renwitter: Its the one that begins “Goodnight my Angel" 01:15:23 Fr. Miron Kerul-Kmec Jr.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjSix58CXQQ 01:16:54 renwitter: The book is actually remarkably well adapted in the film. Very accurate. 01:26:32 Ann Grimak: Thank you so much Father 01:27:14 Rachel: Thank you
I love St. Theophan. The reason I say this is because one can see so clearly how deep his love is for the young Anastasia. He is a true spiritual father.
At this point in their correspondence, Anastasia has come to a deeper understanding of the spiritual life and Theophan has shared with her the great riches of the spiritual tradition. Yet, his love for her makes him at times speak the truth to her with a kind of sternness. Not anger, but rather with a clarity about the weightiness of the matter they are discussing and its importance for her spiritual life and future.
Tonight we began Letter 67 on “Diligent Confession”. Theophan rejoices with Anastasia over the fruits of her pilgrimage to the monastery of Saint Sergius. However, he rebukes her for something that she told him about the nature of her confession. Despite having made the pilgrimage with its physical and emotional rigors and having embraced the practice of unceasing prayer throughout the journey, when the moment came for her to experience the full fruit of the spiritual practice she held back. She did not confess all of her sins; she did not open her mind and her heart fully to God in order that she might also reap the benefits and all the grace that the sacrament offers. Theophan tells her that the essence of the mystery of repentance consists in the resolution of the sin one has confessed. Her preparation should have illuminated her heart fully enough that she would leave no sin unconfessed because she would see no sin is “small”. Every sin has the capacity of growing and taking hold of one’s life and leading one away from God. She must avoid the craftiness of the worldly mind that seeks to rationalize certain behaviors and to minimize their effects.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:12:29 Eric Williams: I would very much be interested in a desert father society or similar. The Catholic men's groups I've seen are either mostly social or have an Evangelical vibe. 00:24:09 Art: I’m in! 00:31:00 Joseph Muir: What page number? 00:31:09 Carol Nypaver: 265 00:31:19 Joseph Muir: Spacibo 00:38:34 Rachel: The quote from St. Climacus, about striking the final blow and still having hope...which chapter is that from? 00:49:41 Rachel: lol yep 00:50:32 Rachel: @ the quirkiness...yet there is hope 00:54:57 Erick Chastain: the horologion and the pre-Vatican II breviary pray the entirety of that psalm, but it was deemed too difficult for moderns to include in the new breviary 00:55:19 Erick Chastain: (as far as I know, the horologion does, but I'm not sure) 00:56:08 Erick Chastain: that is, I think it does, since the byzantine psalters all include it in ther prayer rule 01:02:29 Joseph Muir: Speaking to Sue’s last point, one very real issue is how little time the average parish assigns each week for confession. In my hometown, most of the Roman Catholic churches had an hour each week; in the various places where I’ve lived, I’ve never seen a Byzantine church that has actual confession times, always seeking to leave it up to penitents to ask the priest. While a penitent must obviously take initiative, I assure you that there are far fewer Byzantine Catholics who make a regular confession than would if there were set times throughout any given week (on the latter point, the nearly total absence of daily vespers or matins at these Byzantine churches is also a shame) 01:04:03 Eric Williams: Confession has become juridical - we go to seek removal of criminal guilt at the price of some symbolic atonement in penance. It should be medicinal, though, such that we seek healing from skilled physicians, who work methodically, patiently, and compassionately. Too few priests were taught or bother to use good bedside manners. 01:05:37 Joseph Muir: This is also why there is value in having a regular confessor, particularly one who knows one well enough so as to call them out on their BS😂 01:19:57 Ann Grimak: Thank you Father 01:20:18 Cathy: Goodnight Father
Thank you everyone who participated tonight and for all of your great comments! God bless
Synopsis:
Continuing along with Hypothesis 12, we are given another extraordinary story of the relationship between a mother and her son. Saint Alypios makes the decision to live a life solely dedicated to God and to silence. His plan is to go to live among the monks of the East and to leave home and family in the pursuit of the will of God.
His mother, setting aside all natural sensibilities even though she’s a widow, supports this desire and seeks to deepen it through her own prayer. Her desire is that her son’s desire would be fulfilled and that he would come to know the fullness of the love of God. When the Alypios’ bishop persuades him to return to his homeland in response to a Divine voice, his mother does not cease in her support of Alypios’ holy desire but rather helps him to pursue it with a singular focus. As he grows in virtue and prayer, she helps him to construct a shelter on top of a pillar on which to live in greater solitude. Very much like Mary the Mother of our Lord, she participates and her son’s pursuit of God‘s will. She’s not a passive observer but rather intimately united in faith with her son; a unity that far surpasses what any earthly love could produce.
This example of living for God in the moment, even to the point of letting go of all sense of security, is foreign to us and, frankly, frightening. How is it that we are to live in the moment in our lives and in our vocations in such a way that we do not become calculating? How can we walk the path of faith with purity and perfection - holding nothing back from God out of fear or anxiety or self-love? It is these greater and more personal questions that these stories put forward for us to contemplate!
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Text of chat during the group:
00:33:13 Ed Kleinguetl: Same as Mother Teresa of Calcutta 00:33:52 Rachel: Yes, I noticed that in my interactions with others. Something helped me very much, I heard a priest say, what people think of you is none of your business... 00:35:08 Rachel: then I realized, I don't even know what God thinks of me, I cannot store up virtues and line them up like trinkets. That yes, in the moment He is here. To love Him here and now. 00:36:16 Joseph Muir: The Missionaries of Charity (Mother Teresa’s nuns) in the Bronx have me on speed dial, and I sometimes get the most random phone calls from a small handful of the nuns in that particular convent, sometimes just to talk, but normally leading to their asking for a favor. They have such faith in their “associates”, the extended family of their community, to always be able to step up and help them out. 00:37:55 Rachel: Abandonment in this moment. It doesn't feel comfortable like some imply. 00:39:11 Eric Williams: My wife often mutters “You have a heck of a sense of humor, God!” ;) 00:39:16 Tyler Woloshyn: There is great joy in abandoning cares to the Lord no matter the overwhelming day when you find joy in setting aside that time to pray and do it joyfully. 00:41:09 Fr. Miron Kerul-Kmec Jr.: "We will conquer only through the cross." Elder Arsenie 00:49:04 renwitter: I think @carol roper should perfect her shelter-building skills for when Luke climbs up a pillar to live 😊 00:51:58 Rachel: wow 00:53:31 Rachel: that is so beautiful! It reminds me of when a soul or if a soul would tear down all of the comforts/consolations that prevent one from fully clinging to God alone 00:57:33 Ambrose Little: Who knew that facepalm gesture was so venerable and ancient. 00:57:47 Joseph Muir: 🤣 00:58:05 renwitter: I was literally just writing the same thing!!! 00:58:11 renwitter: 🤣🤣 01:16:52 Rachel: thank you! 01:17:02 maureencunningham: Thank You Lords Blessing 01:17:16 Ashley Kaschl: Thanks, Father!! And welcome Joanne! 😁
Thank you again to all who participated in the group tonight. It was a great blessing as always and joyful.
Tonight we concluded Letter 66 of Saint Theophan to the young Anastasia. Anastasia had decided to make a pilgrimage to the monastery of Saint Sergius. Theophan offers her counsel as to how not to turn this into an act of curiosity or to reduce it to a mere stroll.
Pilgrimages involve the full self; specific sacrifices and hardships - all of which form and shape the heart. It is a reflection of our journey toward God.
She can count upon the blessings and the prayers of Sergius in this journey. However, she must continue to embrace the practices Theophan has taught her. She must pray unceasingly along the journey; the short prayers that he taught her. Above all he encourages her to memorize the Psalms or those that speak to her heart in order that she might be reciting them along the way and meditating upon them.
This journey is to be spent reflecting upon her relationship with God and the state of her heart. When she reaches her destination, she is to make a good confession and receive holy communion. The labor of her travel is meant to help sensitize her conscience in order that she might not overlook the most important thing, tears of contrition. It is such tears, rooted in the spirit of repentance, that will open the gates of heaven to her and the flood of God‘s mercy. One tear is like the renewal of baptism, cleansing the heart and restoring one’s relationship with God.
She must remind herself that the most trustworthy path in this life is one of repentance and that all of heaven rejoices over someone who weeps and is contrite, feeling his sinfulness.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:23:48 Mark Cummings: I am not sure if I should feel bad that I have far less than 50,000 thoughts a day or if I should feel good that I potentially have less bad thoughts to fend off. I wonder when I lose my train of thought if those would be included in the total count for the day. 00:44:38 Ann Grimak: Thank you Father great explanation 00:44:40 Ashley Kaschl: We’ve kinda moved on but as a sidenote to what Father was talking about earlier...I was told, once, that BUSY is really just an acronym for “Bound Under Satan’s Yolk” when it comes to daily Mass, prayer, and the spiritual life, which was definitely a gut check for me 😅 00:47:20 Mark J. Kelly: Ashley makes a great point. While most see Acedia or Sloth displayed by a spiritual depression or withdrawal many ancient and modern writers see Acedia or Sloth in “over-BUSYness”. 00:55:29 Eric Williams: I look forward to Fr Miron bringing back *all* the prostrations to Good Friday at our church. ;) 01:07:00 Rachel: In Divine Intimacy there are 2 readings that help with preparing for a good holy confession called, Simplicity and Sincerity. Two of my top 10 readings from that book. Yes, both traditions can compliment each other beautifully when one understands the language of the desert fathers. 01:11:31 Rachel: wow. yes 01:15:16 Rachel: That was such a good point. Infantilizing under the guise of obedience. 01:21:40 Mark Cummings: thank you, Rachel...I will look over Simplicity and sincerity before my next reconciliation 01:27:28 St. Stanislaus Kostka Religious Education: is that a meaning of integrity? that we allow God to integrate our lives totally 01:29:37 Rachel: Thank you Father and all! 01:29:48 Ann Grimak: Thank you so much Father 01:29:52 maureencunningham: Thank You 01:30:10 Mark Cummings: thank you, father! 01:30:59 Rachel: Thank you, I am in California
Thank you to all who participated in the group tonight!
To say that this was the most beautiful reading that we have considered in the Evergetinos would be an understatement. We continued our reflection on Hypothesis 12 on the importance of parents instilling in their children the love of virtue and the willingness to risk all for it.
Tonight we read one single story: from the life of Saint Clement of Ancyra, martyr. The story centers on Clement’s mother who is a widow and so became for her son - father, teacher, and mother. Above all things she sought to teach her son the inestimable value of giving his life over to Christ. She taught him from the earliest age that, despite the fact that his earthly father had died before he knew him, Clement had gained God as his true Father. “Christ reared you in the strength of the Spirit”, she taught him. Above all, she did not want her son to lose sight of the fact that the love of Christ alone has true value and endures. He is our salvation - the One who has come to raise us up and to make us children of God.
With the most beautiful exhortation she encourages Clement to ready himself for the trials to come. The depth of her faith gave her prophetic vision; she saw not only her own impending death but also the trial and martyrdom her son was to endure. Therefore, she would prepare him in every way throughout his tender years to seek “the one thing necessary”.
In the story we also catch a glimpse of what parenthood looks like when transformed by faith and understood in light of the communion of saints. This mother understood that despite leaving her son in this world they are bound together. His heroic faith and coming martyrdom is something that she would share in intimately; the rewards and joy that will belong to Clement will be hers as well and together they will boldly worship before the throne of Christ.
Clement, so nourished by his mother, endured the greatest tortures for Christ and then made the ultimate gift of his life to his Savior.
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00:31:42 John Clark: Everyone is Catholic in the Strip on Friday’s during lent.. 00:51:47 Rachel (30): This is perfect 01:07:35 Rachel (30): Identity in Christ, teaching them that their true identity and union will be in Christ. 01:07:48 Rachel (30): Actually, that would be great marriage prep 01:09:24 Rachel (30): Thank you Fr. Abernathy and all 01:09:33 Rachel (30): lol 01:09:35 D Fraley: This was good. Thank you Father.Tonight we concluded Letter 65 wherein St. Theophan quotes St. Poemen on the nature of the God-pleasing life. Theophan emphasize here the importance of being unyielding in dealing with our thoughts. We must give them no room for growth and not nourish thoughts that are contrary to God‘s will and to the life of virtue. Closely tied to this struggle with the thoughts is the cultivation of virtue. He tells us that one must at the same time do good and cultivate every sort of virtue within oneself in order that both of these things will bring about the purification of the heart. Theophan concludes the letter with multiple quotes from Saint Poemen on the fundamental virtues to be cultivated. We find in the Fathers a surprising consistency in their thought. What we must desire above all is to foster an enthusiasm for the Spirit of God. The hotter that this flame burns the less sinful thoughts have any access to the human heart.
In turning to Letter 66, we find Theophan speaking with Anastasia about making a pilgrimage to the monastery of Saint Sergius. Theophan is obviously very pleased with this decision. However, he wants Anastasia to understand that this will not simply be a pleasant stroll or satisfy her curiosity. It is a spiritual pilgrimage and she will find in it great labor of mind and body. This is part of what she offers to God and to the particular saint whose intercession she seeks. There will be great fruit, he tells her, that comes from this - both perceptible and imperceptible. God gives the Saints the ability to see what believers do for them and hear what they ask of them.
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00:06:13 renwitter: https://www.ctosonline.org/patristic/EvCT.html 00:23:00 Carole DiClaudio: What page are we on? 00:23:13 Carol Nypaver: 259 00:23:22 Carole DiClaudio: Thank you :) 01:00:59 renwitter: Probably a boyfriend - taking her on one of those monastery road trips you are always suggesting to couples ;-) He came along to impress Elder Theophan :-D 01:02:24 Carol Nypaver: About 33 miles 01:02:56 renwitter: hahahaahahahha 01:03:13 Carol Nypaver: lol 01:21:58 Carol Nypaver: Thank you! It was a wonderful interview. Good job, Father! 01:22:54 renwitter: https://www.ctosonline.org/patristic/EvCT.html 01:23:17 Ashley Kaschl: Thanks, Father! 01:24:10 Carole DiClaudio: Thanks Father!!
Thank you everyone who participated in the Evergetinos study group:
Such beautiful readings tonight! I know this is an oft repeated observation that I make, but there was something in the readings this evening that struck deep to the heart. The conclusion of Hypothesis 11 spoke to us about the deep union enjoyed by individuals who shared a common love of the kingdom and pursuit of love and faith in this world. The deeper our purity of heart, we were told, the more clearly will we see the brightness of God’s glory and participate in it. All of this should spur us on to seek God above all things.
In beginning hypothesis 12, we discussed the formation of children in the life of faith. There is a deep need, from the earliest of years of life, to form a child in their desire to please God and in their love for virtue. Parents should rejoice in those trials of their children that are endured for the sake of Christ. This in turn calls parents to pursue the saintly life themselves. How can they encourage their children to long for the kingdom unless they have a similar yearning within their own hearts? We were given the most beautiful story of the tender love of a mother for a son who was martyred. Her joy over her son’s participation in the glory of her Lord and her solidarity in the sufferings of her son was nothing short of extraordinary. She was no passive participant in the formation of her child; nor was she apassive participant in his suffering and thus deserving a share in the promised of glory. Such stories reshape our understanding of existence and what it is that we value and cherish the most.
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00:33:44 Eric Williams: Nerdy Thomist? Is there any other kind? ;) 00:34:04 Ashley Kaschl: 😂😂 01:07:19 Daniel Allen: Wow 01:22:12 Carol Nypaver: Thank you, Father!
Tonight we continued with Letter 65 on Saint Poemen‘s thoughts on the God-pleasing life. Once again St. Theophan is drawing Anastasia into a deeper understanding of what takes place within the mind and the heart. We constantly have to strive to maintain sobriety; that is, a steady attentiveness and attitude of mind where we simplify the thoughts and keep them focused upon Christ. We do not allow or want to allow ourselves to be formed simply by the world around us and in an indiscriminate fashion. At the earliest age, parents should begin to introduce their children into the things that heighten one’s awareness of God; to teach them the love of silence, to show them what commitment to prayer looks like, to help them see how the beauty of the world around them allows them to transcend the self and turn the mind and the heart to God.
Beyond this, Theophan encourages Anastasia to tie the struggle with the thoughts to the development of virtue. Forming and shaping the mind and the heart by that which is good strengthens us in order that we can engage in the battle with the thoughts more effectively and eventually overcome them. In this sense, we must take personal responsibility for what goes on in our minds and hearts. We may get to a point where they have put down deep roots within us and our thoughts and actions have become habitual and seem to be out of our control. In reality, however, the responsibility lies with us who at one time or another willed to be negligent or lazy or simply inattentive to God and the spiritual warfare that He calls us to at every moment of our lives.
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00:13:09 Wayne Mackenzie: page # again? 00:13:23 Ashley Kaschl: 257 00:13:46 Wayne Mackenzie: thnz 00:13:48 Ashley Kaschl: 3rd paragraph, I think 😁 00:13:55 Ashley Kaschl: No prob 00:57:50 Eric Williams: If only folks were as fanatical about daily prayer and worship as they are for sports… 00:59:35 Art: Amen to that Eric 01:15:46 Miron Kerul Kmec: Thank you
Tonight we continued with Hypothesis 10 and began Hypothesis 11. Both speak with us about the deepest realities of human existence. The weight and the significance of our choices, the things we love, the realities that we give our hearts to, are all placed before us for our consideration. Quite naturally this creates tension and uneasiness within the mind. The reflections are sobering to say the least. They speak to us about a malicious evil who furiously seeks to undermine our faith in the mercy of God; that puts before us every sin that we have ever committed from the moment of our birth to the end of our lives. At the moment when we are about to come before the Righteous Judge, they attack us with the greatest fury, seeking what actions of ours belong to them. While unsettling, such truths compel us to examine our lives with honesty. To whom or to what have we given our hearts?
Hypothesis 11 addresses how, after death, souls are assigned to the same place as those souls which lived in a similar way on earth. There is a radical solidarity, a bond that exists between those who share a common love. Those who love God and who have given themselves over to Him fully will experience a radical unity with others of a similar mind and heart; seeing with an unobstructed gaze all that others have in their hearts. Similarly those who share a common love of a particular sin will be bound together and know similar consequences.
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00:12:29 Eric Williams: Would “The Way of a Pilgrim” be suitable for Schola Christi? 00:24:13 renwitter: If I was as holy as St. Gemma, maybe I could say with her: “If I saw the gates of hell open and I stood on the brink of the abyss, I would not despair; I would not lose hope of mercy, because I would trust in you, my God.” 00:33:04 Tyler Woloshyn: Great book for Lent as well. 00:49:26 renwitter: **Such a beautiful line from Scripture** One of my favorites 00:51:27 Ashley Kaschl: Something about this is reminding me of a quote from CS Lewis’s “The Weight of Glory”: “If we consider the unblushing promises of reward … promised in the Gospels, it would seem that our Lord finds our desires not too strong, but too weak. We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at sea. We are far too easily pleased.” 00:53:03 renwitter: These Hypothesis’ are scaring me to death. I’m never going to sleep tonight :-( Sigh 00:54:29 Rachel (30): Yes! Start now, and every moment from now on! Our limited capabilities will never be enough, but our intentions and giving the whole of our selves, everything emptied out for Love. The thief on the Cross, the disposition of his heart, by the grace of God, must've been such a deep and true repentance that if he could live a thousand years, he would live in repentance. He had encountered Life, Love itself. But our Lord, in His mercy, took the thief to Himself right then, in that moment in time. Whatever time we have left, give everything. 00:57:35 renwitter: The second one! 01:14:19 Rachel (30): Thank you 01:14:34 Carol Nypaver: Blessings to all!
This evening we began Letter 64 where St. Theophan discusses with Anastasia solitude as well as how to avoid boredom and idleness. Theophan is very direct and one might even say stern about this subject. The feeling of loneliness or boredom should be out of place for us if we understand our true identity. We are in reality never alone. The Lord is always close by as well as our Guardian Angel. Therefore, each time we find ourselves alone we must renew as quickly as possible the conviction that the Lord and our Guardian Angel are with us and, in fact, we must rush to take advantage of these moments. Solitude, Theophan tells her, in this spirit is sweet and he prays that she will one day desire it as Paradise on earth. He goes on to tell her that she should avoid idleness at all costs. She should keep the mind focused when her tasks of the day are complete. There are many things that we can do to help us in this regard. Best of all, however, is reading spiritual books. This is the sphere of the most serious subject of all. In it everything is new and never becomes obsolete. The more you learn, the more you will discover subjects that are yet unfamiliar.
Moving on to Letter 65, Theophan begins to share with Anastasia the writings of Saint Poemen that relate to what he has been explaining to her for a long time. Repentance and grieving over one’s sins is the beginning of the divine path. “Repent, the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” A person who repents and grieves over his sins will naturally shun evil and do good. Just as a woman who grieves over the loss of her husband and weeps bitterly can think of nothing else, so a soul that weeps over the loss brought by its sin can’t think of anything else but restoring their relationship with God and weeping over their fall.
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00:01:58 Sheila Applegate: Hi! I can't unmute. 00:04:07 Carol Nypaver: Also, my son’d birthday (on Padre Pio’s Feast). 00:19:27 Mark Cummings: a rent, typically a small one, paid by a freeholder or copyholder in lieu of services which might be required of them. 00:20:06 Mark Cummings: Idle hands are the devil's workshop 00:20:17 Eric Williams: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quit-rent 00:41:30 Fr. Miron Kerul-Kmec Jr.: St. Basil - "Do not submit your souls to corrupt melodies that come to us through the ears. Many passions that enslave us have been caused to grow in our natures by this sort of music." 00:42:01 Cathy: i agree 00:43:15 renwitter: I’m guessing this person he “knows” is himself :-D 01:21:01 renwitter: “For while all things were in quiet silence, and that night was in the midst of her swift course, 15Thine Almighty word leaped down from heaven out of thy royal throne.” One of my favorite passages. The Father communicating His Word to us in the depth of silence. 01:21:43 Carol Nypaver: 😇 01:22:05 Cathy: Thank you. Beautiful 01:23:07 renwitter: We also love Miron Theophan! 01:23:37 Ann Grimak: Thank you so much, 01:23:52 Mark Cummings: Thank you!!! 01:24:00 Cathy: Good night. Thank you Father! 01:24:20 Ashley Kaschl: Solitude is more of a trusting that we are deeply known by GOD and by seeking to know ourselves through a relationship with Christ, we become more aware of just how close God and our Guardian Angel is to us. 01:25:14 Carol Nypaver: Thank you, Ashley! Very insightful.
Tonight we concluded a brief section from Hypothesis Nine and began reading Hypothesis Ten. The subject matter of these readings is rather fierce; presenting us over and over again with the experience of death. What is the experience of the soul at the moment of death bearing within it its vices and virtues alone.?
We are presented with images and visions of the Saints who describe a malignant evil set upon the demise of those seeking to follow the narrow path that leads to the kingdom. Even at the moment of death the evil one is there to accuse and weigh in the balance individual’s vices and virtues. If anything these images stress for us the reality of evil and hostile powers set upon our demise and that the spiritual life and struggle has cosmological scope.
Such truths remind us of the necessity of constant vigilance in the spiritual warfare. We must desire to the kingdom above all things and seek it with purity of heart and intention. It is this alone that sets us upon the path to the kingdom with a holy boldness even when faced with these hostile powers in their most fearful form.
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00:16:50 Ed Kleinguetl: Orthodox theory of the toll houses 00:22:57 Carol Nypaver: Page? 00:23:12 Ashley Kaschl: 84 00:46:37 Rachel (30): Yes, exactly! What a sobering reflection. 01:06:46 Eric Williams: When being chased by a wild beast, one needn’t run fastest - just faster than one’s companions. ;) 01:07:22 Rachel (30): lol 01:14:21 Tyler Woloshyn: Have a blessed evening folks. I am off to my Ukrainian class. Please pray for Canada during our federal election tonight. God bless! :) 01:15:06 Erick Chastain: will do! 01:15:49 renwitter: “Do we all flap” 😂😂😂😂😂😂 01:16:06 renwitter: Made. My. Night 01:21:48 Rachel (30): thank you 01:21:51 D Fraley: Thanks Father David
Tonight we concluded Letters 63. St. Theophan began to speak with Anastasia about something that was near and dear to her heart - singing and playing the piano. Theophan does not demonize music; but he does understand the impact that it has upon the soul, either to elevate it or to drag it down. Its beauty can make us transcend ourselves, while its coarseness can make us insensitive to that which is beautiful. Therefore, Theophan counsels Anastasia to acknowledge the fact that her abilities are a gift from God. Part of her gratitude for these gifts is to use them in the way that He would intend them to be used and that she would turn them to the praise of God. At this moment, Theophan sees that she had only used them to amuse herself and others and has made no mention of God whatsoever. His words are rather sober and stern, but he wants her to understand that her music can speak to the human heart and do the same thing that a good preacher does in church. The fruit of her gift is to edify others as well as herself. However, sensitive to the fact that her taste in music has developed over the course of years, he counsels her to take things slowly and not to make sudden changes.
In closing, Theophan warns Anastasia not to make herself eccentric in the eyes of others and to avoid idiosyncrasies. Rather she has to focus on being good humored and cheerful. Even her laughter must be such that it is not done at the expense of the others but rather is sensitive to the tenderness of the human heart. Likewise she is not to be gloomy in anyway. Her focus upon Christ and his presence in others should foster a joyfulness in her heart. She must never lose sight of the good things the God has created and the good things that exists in others.
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00:28:38 renwitter: My alarm is Agni Parthene! 00:54:13 Eric Williams: Striving to be a saintly parent for our kids is HARD. 00:56:09 Eric Williams: Imagine what love and holiness could be brought to the world if it were full of living saints! 00:59:16 Eric Williams: Even better than battleships: arks to rescue humanity from the floods of sin and evil in the world! Catholic coast guard! 01:01:42 Eric Williams: Could you share a PDF of “The Ascetic Heart”, Father? 01:02:21 renwitter: It is on the website, Eric! At www.thepittsburghoratory.org/philokalia-ministries, scroll down to “documents.” You can download it right from there. 01:04:09 Carol Nypaver: Thanks, Ren! I was trying to find it too! 01:04:44 renwitter: Oh! Its not there! I will add it tomorrow :-) Check back around noon. 01:05:01 Carol Nypaver: Will do! 01:05:13 Art: On Dancing, St. John Vianney Is it not there, my dear brethren, that the boys and the girls drink at the fountain of crime, which very soon, like a torrent or a river bursting its banks, will inundate, ruin, and poison all its surroundings? Go on, shameless fathers and mothers, go on into Hell, where the fury of God awaits you, you and all the good actions you have done in letting your children run such risks. Go on, they will not be long in joining you, for you have outlined the road plainly for them. Go and count the number of years that your boys and girls have lost, go before your Judge to give an account of your lives, and you will see that your pastor had reason to forbid these kinds of diabolical pleasures! . . .Ah, you say, you are making more of it than there really is! 01:06:24 Carol Nypaver: Wow, Art! Thank you. 01:06:24 Eric Williams: We’re drowning in data, but there’s precious little information, even less knowledge, and wisdom is rarer than hens’ teeth! 01:08:32 Eric Williams: news motto: “If it bleeds, it leads.” 01:11:16 Cathy: i agree Ren! 01:20:14 Eric Williams: I teach my kids that a good joke is one that all parties enjoy, not one that makes us laugh at the expense of someone else.
We continued this evening with our reading of Hypothesis IX. As always the stories that we are given from the Fathers are both comforting and fiercely challenging.
We heard first about how saintly souls are able to see divine things. Because of their purity of heart and by the grace of God they are able to have a vision of things beyond the limits of the human mind and our capacity for perceiving the hidden realities around us.
We also heard about the reality of Hell itself through the experience of these holy Fathers. Hell is presented very much as the opposite of the complete intimacy and communion the faithful soul shares with the eternal Trinity. If that life is lacking in nothing and knows the fullness of love, Hell is the experience of complete isolation from God and one another. Those who were blessed to receive the fullness of revelation in Christ, those who know His teaching and yet turned away from it, come to experience the deeper loss. For the judgment that comes upon them is not only due to their sinful actions and deeds, it also due to the fact that they have lead others to blaspheme the name of God and to insult God. “He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”
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00:13:20 D Fraley: Would you go back? 00:14:35 Rachel (30): FR. John McGuckin has a good talk on St. Cyril 00:14:47 Rachel (30): Do you have pictures of the Sinai icons? 00:16:30 Ashley Kaschl: I’m with you, Ren. It’s WAY easier to warm up than cool off. 00:38:18 Rachel (30): Yes! Exactly what I was hoping to be addressed today. The renewal of the Church through the Fathers.. 00:39:51 Rachel (30): I have encountered suspicion at times, in the West, of the Fathers, the writings of the Philokalia, Cassian, Climacus, Maximos,,I think it our blessing, priviledge and patrimony..to be able to have access to these teachings and writings. 00:42:30 Ambrose Little: “I agree with all that you have said.” 00:42:50 Carol Nypaver: 😆 00:56:45 Carol Nypaver: Why are they being punished for not knowing God? Why wouldn’t they be in Purgatory? 01:04:36 Erick Chastain: This is called limbo, a section of hell for virtuous pagans 01:06:47 Carol Nypaver: So “limbo” is part of Hell? 01:12:16 renwitter: There is a document put forward by Pope Benedict XVI in 2007 that marks a firm turn away from any idea of limbo in the Catholic faith. Pope Benedict said that the idea of limbo should be abandoned because it had always been always “only a theological hypothesis” and “never a defined truth of faith.” It would seem that the main motivation for this clarification on the part of the Church was that limbo was seen as unjustly limiting the mercy of God. 01:16:58 Carol Nypaver: Someone who never knew God being condemned to Hell seems like a limit to God’s Mercy. (Not trying to be argumentative, just genuinely confused) 01:21:57 renwitter: I was just speaking to the idea of limbo. All I can think about this story is something we have spoken about in the past - that in these writings there is not a distinction made between hell and purgatory as we think of them, and that hell is often used in a way that we would use purgatory. The very fact that they can receive any consolation at all seems to be a clue into the nature of the place - not hopeless. Again, I don’t actually know, but this is something we have spoken about in the past. 01:22:25 renwitter: Of course, hell is often spoken of also in the way we would think about it. 01:24:43 Ambrose Little: I think we can focus too much on figuring out the circles of hell. :) The underlying point in this passage seems to be that it is a greater sin to know God and turn away from him than to never have known him but not believe. This is supported in Scripture, too. 01:25:28 renwitter: Great point, Ambrose. And one that always makes me feel so doomed. :-( 01:26:17 Rachel (30): the distortion is in the understanding 01:27:06 Ambrose Little: Throw yourself on the mercy of God! Be that “valiant struggler” and repent immediately every time you sin. 01:28:42 Ambrose Little: Those whom the Lord loves, He chastises. People don’t recognize that the “hardness” of God is for our own good. 01:30:06 Carol Nypaver: “It is through suffering that the soul is purified.” 01:30:42 Eric Williams: Blame my cat ;)
We began Letter 63 this evening entitled “Singing and Music.”However, St. Theophan begins first by discussing with Anastasia how she engages in the tasks of the day and fulfilling her duties. His counsel to her speaks directly to us as well in our own day. The work that we engage in is to be free from trouble and cares. Otherwise the heart becomes agitated. We must strive to work calmly; for if we do not everyday life becomes a hindrance to the spiritual life and our activity and occupations are done in vain. A hubbub always results in the spiritual life getting nowhere at all. Thus, we must distinguish proper zeal from improper care and worries.
Theophan then moves on to address some specific concerns of Anastasia about what is near and dear to her heart; singing and playing the piano. As with everything else, Theophan warns Anastasia that she must be discriminating. We are in a constant state of receptivity and music more than most things has an incredible power over the soul; either in elevating it or dragging it down. Theophan does not demonize music for he sees its true value. He tells her that it is impossible for her to change everything at once. However, she must give due attention to the content of the music that she sings and plays. She must become more discerning and so choosing songs that have a more tolerable content; gradually setting aside and forgetting others that become a mere distraction. Admittedly, this may be very difficult for the modern mind to accept. The norm is to be completely immersed in the noise of the world and to surround ourselves with music in almost every setting. Yet, for the person who desires to please God in all things, nothing must escape the scrutiny of love and the desire for intimacy. Music may be enticing and stimulating but it may also be an obstacle to our relationship with God.
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00:09:27 renwitter: pghco.org/evergetinos 00:09:30 renwitter: pghco.org/theophan 00:54:46 Samuel + Christina: Harmonium is a reed organ 00:55:01 D Fraley: A harmonium is like an accordion. 01:10:19 Karl MacMillan: I still will argue that Appetite for Destruction by Guns n Roses is just about the perfect rock album - even if I can't really listen to it anymore. 01:11:28 renwitter: What about Valaam chant? 01:11:41 Erick Chastain: I love valaam chant! 01:12:32 Alexander Pearson: Valaam? 01:12:56 Carol Nypaver: They have the most beautiful YouTube videos. 01:13:12 Karl MacMillan: I think everyting has been downhill since the introduction of polyphony :) 01:13:31 Rachel (30): Thank you 01:14:34 renwitter: PSA. These are the links for the Monday and Wednesdays: 01:14:35 renwitter: pghco.org/evergetinos pghco.org/theophan 01:14:56 Rachel (30): Thank you a thousand times. God bless. 01:15:38 Cathy: What a wonderful way to end mt day. Blessings! 01:15:51 D Fraley: Thank you Fr David.
Tonight we began Hypothesis IX on “where the souls of the dying go and how they exist after the separation from the body.” We are presented both with the experience of the Saints as they witness the death of others their ascent to heaven and also the experience of those who witness, through the action of God and his Angels, both Hell and the joys of Heaven.
Our contemplation of these stories is meant to foster kind of urgency within us. We are not to lose ourselves in empty speculation but rather allow the stories to stir within us the desire for God and a spirit of repentance. We are taught that we must have no illusions about our capacity to choose darkness, to dull the conscience, to such an extent that we choose freely the path that leads away from God. It is a frightening prospect but it is also a saving truth.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:28:47 renwitter: PSA: From now on, the link for this group will always be pghco.org/evergetinos 00:29:00 renwitter: The one for Wednesday will be pghco.org/theophan 00:35:24 Ambrose: Now we know why the father spoke so little. He could never get a word in edgewise. :) 00:50:20 Mark J. Kelly: Erick’s point reminds me of a great quote by Blaise Pascal, “To those who seek God, He gives sufficient light. To those who do not seek Him, He gives sufficient darkness.” 00:50:52 Ashley Kaschl: Gotta go! See ya Wednesday. 😁 01:12:51 renwitter: The Church of the Quivering Brethren 01:13:22 Rachel (30): Referring to hidden things from ourselves and not living fully in Christ, I think St. Climacus speaks about this in the beginning of The Ladder. He relates a story of a monk who was living an unspeakably sinful life until he confessed his sins and not only to the priest alone but the whole community. 01:17:11 renwitter: For those who joined the group a little later tonight. PSA: From now on, the link for this group will always be pghco.org/evergetinos The one for Wednesday will be pghco.org/theophan 01:20:10 Miron Kerul Kmec: will we get e-mail tooo? 01:22:09 renwitter: Yes! For each group 01:26:15 Ambrose: “There but for the grace of God go I.” 01:30:32 Rachel (30): Thank you. 01:31:26 D Fraley: Thank youTonight we concluded Letter 62 on Active Warfare with the passions. Increasingly, Theophan offers more and more practical counsel to Anastasia. Active warfare against the passions includes specific ascetical practices such as fasting, the ordering of sleep and other appetites, avoiding certain forms of entertainment; basically anything that is formative and helps one to be more attentive to God and is conducive to cleansing the passions from the heart. This requires arranging our life and the course of the events in such a way that make us responsive to the action of God‘s grace and providence. God will often bring things together in such a way that events coalesce in order for Him to cleanse us of the passions and grind to dust the squalid and selfishness and stubborn egoism which maintain the passions and destroy the person. Theophan is very much part of a tradition that tells us to kill the passions both inwardly and externally, while cultivating good behavior and giving for range and exercise to the disciplines that cleanse the heart. Theophan reminds her of all the things that she must be attentive to; such as, engaging in spiritual reading, daily scripture readings, self-mortification, and renouncing oneself when necessary. All of these things he has taught Anastasia and simply leaves her with the thought - “May God speed.” Indeed, may God swiftly cleanse our hearts and draws us to His own.
Continuing with Hypothesis VIII and considering the experience of those who die and come back to life, we are brought to a place of self-reflection that we often resist. The only thing that we take out of this world is either our virtue or our vice. Saint Ephraim tells us tonight that it is the it voice of these sins that will bear witness to the truth about our lives before God.
Again we must strive to think about this in the full context of our faith and what God has revealed to us. God, we are told, wills that all be saved and does everything in his power to bring us to salvation. In His Son He has revealed to us his love and his mercy and he has given us the fullness of his grace in order to elevate us to the very life and the love of the Trinity. We must see our lives in light of this ultimate reality and our engagement with the world around us must be given shaped by this distinctive identity. There is no in-between state for us as Christian men and women. Life has been given to us for repentance; that is, in order to turn toward God and to receive his grace and mercy. We must not through heedlessness or sloth elevate other things above God and make them our idols. The stories that we are presented with tonight call out to us: “Now is the time, now is the moment of salvation.” Let us pray that we would have ears to hear.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:11:56 John Clark: The 3 key ingredients in French cooking..Butter..butter..and butter! 00:34:11 Ambrose: gaudium et spes 00:37:39 Lilly: in the wise words of an old man ... ‘god meets us where we are’ 00:40:06 Tyler Woloshyn: Like the Old Testament Brazen Snake was made for good, it did get corrupted when misused for the wrong reasons. It can be the same when people worship liturgy above God. 00:40:15 Joseph Muir: Thank God that He does, Lily! 00:57:11 Tyler Woloshyn: A priest once said, he would rather encounter people who are "theologically stupid" rather than the career theologian who runs people over to put them down to reach the next theology book." 00:58:56 Joseph Muir: Which reminds me all the more, Tyler, that the greatest theologians are those who pray the most❤ 00:59:41 Ambrose: GS 44-45 touch on this engagement as well as the priority of the Gospel and the person and work of Christ. 01:02:20 Eric Williams: At least you didn’t quote Only The Good Die Young. ;) 01:02:28 Tyler Woloshyn: Praying without ceasing makes great theologians. Good input their Joseph about prayerful theologians. 01:02:58 Joseph Muir: Hahahaha, wait, what Billy Joel song was he referencing? 01:06:24 Ambrose: Fr. A shared this recently. Thought it was great. If you are an eye-witness of your brother falling [into sin], say without hesitation: “A curse on you, Satan! My brother is not to blame”, and strengthen your heart against judging your brother, or the Holy Spirit will withdraw from you. Anonymous Sayings of the Desert Fathers 01:06:30 Eric Williams: Even vice is sort of a product now (maybe always was?). “Collect them all! Don’t be left out!” 01:09:40 Eric Williams: Billy Joel lyric: 01:09:45 Eric Williams: “You can get just so much From a good thing You can linger too long In your dreams Say goodbye to the Oldies but goodies ‘Cause the good ole days weren’t Always good And tomorrow ain’t as bad as it seems” 01:10:10 Eric Williams: Keeping the Faith, from the album An Innocent Man 01:10:40 Francesca pineda (30): Oh no! I missed what Paul of Thebes said because my phone died! 01:15:06 Francesca pineda (30): Thank you
St. Theophan continues to nourish the young Anastasia with solid food. He guides her deeper and deeper into the spiritual life and warfare.
We began this evening with Letter 61 where Theophan teaches Anastasia about guarding the senses of hearing and sight. Often the present generation neglects the constant state of receptivity that we find ourselves in as human beings; the intense amount stimuli that the mind and the heart have to engage. We must learn to discriminate between those things that are destructive to our relationship with God or those things that help to elevate it.
In Letter 62 Theophan begins to make a distinction between active warfare with the passions and spiritual warfare. The spiritual warfare is everything that he has been speaking to her about; guarding the thoughts, feelings, and the desires that give rise to the Passions. To progress in this arena is the larger part of the spiritual life and leads to holiness. However, active warfare with the passions consist in the deliberate undertaking and carrying out of actions that are directly opposed to the Passions. This, to combat pride a person might embrace a humble occupation or to combat carousing one might stay at home more frequently. When the inner spiritual warfare is tied to this active combat, the passions will soon be defeated. This makes Theophan‘s counsel priceless.
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Text of chat during the group:
01:08:33 Eric Williams: Tiny homes would be wonderful blessings for the homeless, if only so many cities didn’t ban them for violating building codes (for minimum square footage). :( 01:17:48 Natalia Wohar: Watch the movie “1917” 01:17:57 Eric Williams: You’re a Theophan…fan ;) 01:18:40 Rachel: Thank you.
There are times when reading the Fathers or the gospel when one walks away feeling as if the earth is shifting beneath one’s feet; or one begins to question their perception of who they are, their identity as a Christian, and whether or not they are living it fully or if it is an illusion. As difficult as it is to consider such things, and as hard as they strike at the heart, they are often the most important things for us to reflect upon. To consider the truth about death and judgment as in Hypothesis VIII in an unvarnished fashion and to let it create tension within the mind and the heart, is something that perhaps relatively few people are willing to do. We grow comfortable in our illusions. To understand that we are being invited into the very mystery of God, the mystery of our redemption and the life that it is made possible, requires a willingness to make an ascent of faith. It means to allow ourselves to let go of all limitations and to allow God to draw us through the darkness of our faith to comprehend what he desires to reveal to us and as he desires to reveal to us. It is always love that is behind this but our experience of it and our resistance to it in our sin or our fear can make us turn away. Like Saint Peter it is our love and trust in Christ at those moments, when our sensibilities rebel or recoil, that allows us to say, “Lord where are we to go? You have the words of everlasting life.“
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Text of chat during the group:
00:54:00 Lilly Crystal: The last sentence “Now, at the setting of the sun, you remember God?” reminds me of the Hymn sung at Vespers- O Joyful Light 01:07:43 Ambrose: That always gives me tingles. 01:22:33 D Fraley: Thank you Fr David.
Tonight we began Letter 61. St. Theophan begins to teach Anastasia about the necessity of guarding the senses, in particular hearing and sight. This is especially challenging in modern times when there are so many sources of stimuli. Nonetheless, Theophan tells her they all hold their influence on the person and guide them either toward the good or toward the evil. Therefore, one must not give free reign to the senses.
Do not allow yourself to see everything and hear everything but rather be extremely discriminating. A person who opens up a window and lets in bad air is doing wrong and likewise the person who fills a cup of dirty water from a puddle and pours it over himself is stupid. We do the same when opening ourselves to evil feelings and desires. We act without prudence and responsibility and we subject ourselves to stimuli through the things that we see in hear throughout the course of the day. It is necessary instead for us to rush immediately to blot out the stimulus and to suppress the thoughts by taking them captive through turning the mind and the heart to God in prayer.
By leaving evil within ourselves for a long time we give it the opportunity to become more deeply implanted and opposed to expulsion and cleansing. It can take possession of the mind. Theophan, in a very stark way, tells Anastasia that a person who has experienced harm from a stimulus and willingly allows himself to encounter the objects again shows that in reality he delights in the evil; and so is impure to the bottom of the heart. Again, to modern sensibilities this seems harsh or unyielding. But we hold something precious within us - the very love and grace of God and we are to protect it. And so as Jesus says: if your hand causes you to sin cut it off or if your eye causes you to sin pluck it out. There will be certain things that we have to do without in the course of our life in order to protect that which has greater value. In the struggle with temptations the coward is the victor - he who flees or rather runs toward God.
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Text of chat during group:
00:17:09 Joseph Muir: My wife is pretty spotty, so we’ll see if I make it through the whole group
00:17:15 Joseph Muir: WIFI*🤣
00:17:42 renwitter: hahahahahahaha
00:18:31 Ashley Kaschl: 😂😂😂
00:33:39 Edward Kleinguetl: "When a thought arises, cut it off at once with the Prayer of Jesus. If you start examining it, it will stick to you and you will get interested in it. It will chain you and you will have agreement with it and will start thinking how to fulfill it. And then you will perform it in deed, and this is how sin arises." (Elder Michael the Recluse of Valaam)
00:44:51 Joseph Muir: All of this is why I stopped watching Black Mirror. As much of a fan as I am of dystopian literature and stories, I found that, as the seasons progressed, it more consistently went down paths that I, in good conscience, couldn’t justify in watching it anymore.
01:03:58 Lilly Crystal: Theology of the Body by St. P. John Paul II has been an amazing resource for my personal struggles regarding topics as such :
01:11:57 Ashley Kaschl: Well shoot 😂
01:13:30 Sheila Applegate: I had to stop Black Mirror too and keep far away from Games of Thrones which as a fantasy lover and reader of the first book (and appauled) I know I would be addicted too.
01:17:19 carolnypaver: “Renew the I Do” is an excellent pre-marriage prep program.
01:18:16 Lilly Crystal: @carolyn where can I find that?
01:18:37 Art: The Catholic Guide
Friendship and Chastity for young adults and older teens (but great for all ages with great chapters on True Friendship and Choice of a Marriage Partner)
www.AngelusPress.org
01:20:37 carolnypaver: Contact Dolores Shipe and ask if there is a program in Canada. 412-760-3177 She is in the Pittsburgh Diocese.
01:21:36 Lilly Crystal: @carolyn thank you so much :)
01:21:47 Mark Cummings: Love will keep us together- Captain and Tennile
01:24:10 Lilly Crystal: Same here lol
01:24:55 renwitter: Father David has been known to honk at Newman Center couples when he drives by them holding hands and walking down the sidewalk :-D
01:25:08 Mark Cummings: Date night is the best night to shine up my shotgun
01:25:12 Ashley Kaschl: 😂😂😂
01:25:34 Callie Eisenbrandt: Lol
In Hypothesis VIII, we found ourselves considering something that is rather jarring to our sensibilities. We began listening to Saint Gregory the Great on the experience of those who die and come to life again and how this can happen by Divine Providence. We are presented with stories of those who are brought to deep repentance when they began to see that fearful state of Hell. We are also shown that such experiences may take place by God‘s providence perhaps not for the conversion of the one who is dying but for those who witness the the terror of the death of one outside of the grace of God and lacking a repentant heart. There is a fierce love at work bringing about our redemption and that fierceness shows itself by stripping us of any illusions about our lives; illusions either about our own mortality or the immortality of the soul. We see our great dignity and destiny in Christ. We are offered life eternal and an experience of union with the Triune God. However, this immortality of the soul outside of the context of our relationship with Christ presents us with a fearful reality; life without God and eternal death. God and his providence will scourge us in order to correct us and draw us back to the path that leads to life. He will allow us to taste the consequence and the bitterness of our own sin in order that we might turn away from it and hate it. This may not be easy to listen to and our inclination may be to turn away from it or to sanitize it. But if we strip the gospel of its teachings on the last things, if we remove the challenging thoughts of Christ in regards to the unbridgeable chasm that exist between heaven and hell, we lose sight of both our dignity and the weight and significance of our choices in this world. If the stories lead us to repentance they will ultimately lead us to joy; for they will lead us back to the bosom of God. Therefore we must not fear them and we must not avoid them - but allow them to shine their fearsome light upon us.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:16:07 Eric Williams: Father forgot to mute everyone, so everyone check your mics! :)
00:16:23 Edward Kleinguetl: Thanks!
00:21:36 Tyler Woloshyn: He was also the author of the Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts in the Byzantine church.
00:33:46 Ambrose: The staff is for beating off the wolves. :)
00:39:19 Eric Williams: Like what I was saying about young married priests in the East not having older priest families to learn from.
00:48:32 Edward Kleinguetl: Heb. 12:6.
00:49:58 Edward Kleinguetl: "For whom the Lord loves, he disciplines; he scourges every son he acknowledges.”
00:51:59 Eric Williams: “My child, do not despise the Lord’s discipline
or be weary of his reproof,
for the Lord reproves the one he loves,
as a father the son in whom he delights.” - Proverbs 3:11-12
00:52:02 renwitter: We do not always want to draw that connection between suffering and sin though, right? Christ himself addressed that, and I think of job’s friends trying to convince him that all he is suffering is a result of sin, which it wasn’t. Isn’t suffering also something given to us as a means of drawing us closer to Christ in His passion?
00:52:22 Erick Chastain: oh yeah for sure, not always
00:53:55 Eric Williams: ““How happy is the one whom God reproves;
therefore do not despise the discipline of the Almighty.[d]
For he wounds, but he binds up;
he strikes, but his hands heal.” - Job 5:17-18
00:54:31 Edward Kleinguetl: Abba Dorotheos of Gaza: “In God’s providence everything is absolutely right and whatever happens is for the assistance of the soul. For whatever God does with us, he does out of love and consideration for us because it is adapted to our needs.”
01:17:01 Edward Kleinguetl: I met him, April 2, 2019, on Mt. Kolzam.
01:29:30 Nicole: Thank you!!!
01:29:59 D Fraley: Thank you Father David
Sometimes a great question can lead a group in exactly the right direction! That was true this evening in our discussion of Letter 60 of Saint Theophan‘s correspondence with Anastasia.
So often the spiritual life can seem amorphous. Yet, how is it lived practically? How is it that we direct anger at the passions and what does that look like? Sometimes the spiritual life and the warfare that Theophan describes can seem frightening - let alone confusing. Understanding this leads us right where we need to be. The Fathers of the Church understood that our faith is not simply a set of beliefs or an ideology. It is essentially ascetical; that is, a response to God‘s revelation of Himself to us and His revelation of what the Paschal Mystery has made possible for us.
Our destiny in Christ is to share in the life of the most Holy Trinity. But this involves a response to the grace that God has given to us. That response is repentance; a constant turning toward God and away from the passions.
The nature of the passions make this a Warfare. We must invest ourselves with a kind of aggression to kill the passions. They are like serpents seeking to reach the surface from within a pit. The Saints tell us we must strike each one of them down until we have killed them. We must not nourish them through a kind of sympathy towards their presence in our lives. In fact, we must poison them with a holy anger that would strike down anything within the human heart that becomes an impediment to our sharing in the love of God.
This is, Theophan tells us, the “shortest path” to purifying the heart and there is no other. We may develop our natural virtues to a high extent but without engaging in this battle we will remain passionate and we will become like the foolish virgins described in the gospel who run out of oil. We cannot borrow virtue, faith, or love from another. Our hearts must burn with desire for the Heavenly Bridegroom.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:20:16 Ashley Kaschl: Don’t know how long I’ll be able to stay/have service but hopefully I’ll get to stay the whole time.
00:44:28 Ashley Kaschl: I think the problem, at least that I’ve confronted, is that people are afraid to start in earnest in any spiritual warfare in their lives because they have a preconceived notion or image from the culture that they’re scared off.
00:56:14 Ashley Kaschl: Gotta go, everyone. Taking off again 😁 great to see you all!
01:02:13 Carole: Safe travels!!
This evening we concluded Hypothesis VII of the first volume of The Evergetinos. Once again we considered the experience of death of two saintly figures, St. Daniel the Stylite and Abba Sisoes. We begin to see in these two men how their constant repentance and the embrace of God’s grace brought forth, in anticipation, the life of the kingdom. The presence of the saints and angels, the light of Christ and the transformation of their countenance, all speak of the glory that lies on the other side of death. The stories are meant to awaken within us the desire for God and the life of virtue and to give us a lively sense of hope as we approach our own deaths. We are to allow these examples to spur us on in the spiritual life and to do so we must not read them simply in a notional way. Rather we must gaze upon them and listen to them with the eyes and ears of faith; such that we begin to comprehend the mystery of the Kingdom itself. Indeed this should be the posture of every man and woman of faith. We must look at all things in the light of what has been revealed to us in Christ; for only then will we begin to understand our true dignity and destiny as the redeemed Sons and Daughters of God.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:27:55 Eric Williams: Probably a lounge lizard. ;)
00:31:15 renwitter: Honestly, I feel super awkward when the priest begins confession by saying “Welcome!” Instead of making the sign of the cross. Its like….ummmm…thank you?
00:32:11 Michael Liccione: I'm just relieved to get a priest who doesn't need convincing that my sins are sins!
00:32:20 renwitter: Wow Joe. Ditto to everything you’ve said so far.
00:32:41 Erick Chastain: my secret is my own y'all
00:33:09 carolnypaver: You mean, “yinz.”
00:33:26 renwitter: Ooo….the Saint Philip influence is rubbing off on Erick :D
00:33:49 Daniel Allen: Erick Chastain for the win!
00:33:50 Erick Chastain: am I allowed to use yinz as a non-Pittsburgher?
00:34:02 carolnypaver: Absolutely!
00:34:25 carolnypaver: ; )
00:35:33 Joseph Muir: I maybe lived in Pittsburgh for 11 years, but it was prefaced with 25 years in Georgia, so my vote will always be for “y’all” over “yinz”
00:35:56 carolnypaver: Snob! ; )
00:36:44 Joseph Muir: Having now been in the NYC area for 2 years, we’ll see if “you’s guys” eventually enters my lexicon🤣
00:37:25 carolnypaver: NYC——so sorry to hear. : (
00:38:04 Joseph Muir: Not a fan, I take it, eh, Carolyn?😆
00:38:50 carolnypaver: Visited once…not impressed. One-and-done for me. Thank you very much.
00:39:48 carolnypaver: The ‘Burgh is the place for me. People are friendlier, I have found.
00:40:48 Joseph Muir: Half of my family is originally from here, so a part of it has always felt like home. I also get to hang out a lot with the Missionaries of Charity, Sisters of Life, and Franciscan Friars of the Renewal a lot, which is a blessing (I went to the profession of final vows Mass for the Franciscans yesterday afternoon, actually ❤)
00:41:39 carolnypaver: Awesome! You’re in a good part of NYC! ; )
00:42:34 Ambrose: Who is “the Church”? We is the Church. :)
00:44:56 Jonathan Rodriguez: Great point Eric
00:45:00 Daniel Allen: Facebook and Twitter... the “anti-church”? The depth of a puddle, I like that a lot.
00:45:08 Joseph Muir: That’s a very theologically astute observation, Fr Ambrose!😀
00:47:31 Ambrose: Just a mister Ambrose. There is a Fr. Ambrose Little, O.P. in the St. Joseph province (Eastern USA), who I have occasionally been mixed up with. I don’t mind, but poor Fr. Ambrose! lol
00:48:32 sue and mark: understood that the confessional was sacrosanct and can not be hears by the demons. Isn't that true?
00:50:58 Eric Williams: “Who is the Church?” That’s a great thought and something that should convict us. I was thinking more of the institutional Church, though. We’ve had so many generations of poorly catechized members of the Church that we’re a chaotic mess of well-intentioned klutzes. It seems to me - and I’m frequently wrong - that our leaders have let us down and left us hanging. Too many of us are wandering sheep without reliable shepherds. To mix metaphors, we’re the blind leading the blind.
00:52:34 Ambrose: I dare say that is the perennial reality of the Church—always something of a mess; always in need of reform.
00:53:21 Joseph Muir: On that point, Eric, I’ve been listening to the Bible In A Year podcast from Fr Mike Schmitz ever since the start of this year, and looking at the Facebook group, the comments and questions are so all over the place, in a way that demonstrates the poor catechesis
00:53:45 Joseph Muir: I should probably leave the group, for the sake of my own soul🤣
01:02:27 sue and mark: who would not want to die that way?
01:05:12 Joseph Muir: “Noble simplicity”🙄
01:05:26 Lilly: Agree 100% Fr David
01:13:10 Eric Williams: In other words, we don’t overcome sin, per se, so much as we acknowledge that we are always sinning. So, we must be in perpetual repentence.
01:13:41 Joseph Muir: Found the article😀: https://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2008/06/the-incredible-hulk-the-philokalia-and-anger-management
01:13:56 Lilly: @Eric well said.
01:14:47 Ambrose: The “art” of repentance. A good term for it. Always room to improve and further our art.
01:14:51 Eric Williams: The secret to the Hulk controlling his rage was acknowledging that he’s always angry, rather than blaming his outbursts on particular outrages. He stopped treating his anger as someone else’s fault. He’s always angry, so he is always dangerous.
01:16:32 Joseph Muir: Amen, Eric. This is also why it’s healthier to not simply see sin as the bad things that we do and say and think, but it is the state of our broken selves due to our inheriting this brokenness by virtue of original sin. We aren’t simply sinners due to our commiting individual acts of sin; we are sinners due to inheriting a sinful nature, a disease which only the God can cure us of in in the church, via the sacraments and prayer
01:17:12 Jonathan Rodriguez: Thank you!
When reading the Fathers, one has to be prepared to be challenged; and at in times in ways that are discomfiting. Letter 60 of Theophan’s correspondence with Anastasia presents us with such a challenge. The title of the Letter is “Cleansing the Heart.” Theophan focuses on the eruption of passions that come with great force; feelings, desires, thoughts come upon us like a wave or erupt like a volcano. Our response to such circumstances is to be consistent with all that he has taught her. We are to turn these thoughts and feelings out again and to do so repeatedly until they cease. However, Theophan warns Anastasia that despite how these thoughts and feelings come upon us, that is, seemingly unintended, they are in reality a reflection of impurity still present within our hearts. Although at the moment we may not have given an assent to such thoughts, feelings, and desires, the presence of such passions bear witness to the fact that there is still impurity within our heart; that is, at some point, we were guilty through negligence, a lack of prayer, or laziness in the ascetical life. And in all of this we must not conceal ourselves or cover our nakedness, as it were. Rather, we are to humbly blame ourselves and acknowledge our sin and our participation in the sin and its emergence. To do so is to fail to embrace the truth in the sight of God and to ignore the voice of our conscience. It is to hold on falsely to our self-esteem and vainglory. Humility means “truthful living” and acknowledging the truth in an unvarnished way before God. In this and in this alone will we find healing.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:28:30 renwitter: As Mother Mectilde de Bar would tell us, our practice of virtue is not just for the sake of securing our salvation and moving on. We ought always to be seeking to bring greater and greater glory to God.
00:33:16 renwitter: Ya’ll are gonna think I’m crazy, but the image that just came to mind is me telling myself that I can watch a certain tv show, or engage in idle conversation without being in danger, and suddenly Miracle Max’s wife from The Princess Bride runs in shouting “Liar, Liar!!”
00:33:37 Ashley Kaschl: 😂😂😂
00:33:41 Lilly: lol
00:34:47 Joseph Muir: 🤣
00:35:00 Cathy: The Holy Spirit saved you Ren
00:45:22 renwitter: Forgiveness Sunday is coming to mind
00:54:25 Sheila Applegate: 👍
00:57:22 Cathy: I need to get a maid, therefore I can practice this method!
00:58:04 renwitter: 😂
01:04:28 Ashley Kaschl: CS Lewis said something similar to what Father is saying, something to the effect of “I find that when I think I am asking God to forgive me I am often in reality (unless I watch myself very carefully) asking Him to do something quite different. I am asking Him not to forgive me but to excuse me.”
01:09:25 Mark Cummings: I think Ren just apologized to Father for something but I am not sure
Tonight we picked up with Hypothesis VII, continuing our reflection upon the experience of death by those righteous souls who sought to draw close to God in their life. God in His great mercy will often come to them to console and prepare them for their own passover; their passing over from death to eternal life.
The unknown of this reality can be a fearful thing, and so in the stories we often hear of the dying soul being surrounded by his fellow monks praying for his soul. This moment, often feared and avoided by modern men and women, is something we are encouraged to meditate upon in the deepest way. It is not simply facing our fears, but facing them in light of what God has revealed to us and his only begotten Son. We are in the End Times; salvation is now and so every moment is freighted with destiny because every moment is an opportunity to love and give ourselves in love. The stories magnify that reality for us so that we would take our life seriously; but more importantly, that we would take God at his word. We must foster a kind of stability in life and mind; a clarity about what we pursue as our ultimate goal. Otherwise we may not prepare ourselves for that most intimate of moments when we will stand before God in the full light of His Truth.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:39:34 Eric Williams: Nope, not ready. Thanatophobia is rough. ;)
00:41:30 Ambrose Little: I think it’s the attraction of gnosticism, too.
00:45:21 Eric Williams: Erick must be fun at parties. ;)
00:47:18 Erick Chastain: :)
00:56:59 Tyler Woloshyn: An example of semantron https://youtu.be/iXj7DLHH9-E
01:02:52 Eric Williams: Every parent willing to be honest will say they’ve wanted to flee. ;)
01:03:34 renwitter: Personally, I favor “One day I’ll fly away” from Mulan Rouge :-D My personal favorite “run-away song.”
01:07:45 Eric Williams: *innocent whistling*
01:09:13 Ambrose Little: Eric, rather this: https://youtu.be/3br0tDqW3r8 :)
01:13:21 D Fraley: Thank you, Father David.
01:14:02 Lilly: Thank you!
“Know that in this is the entire essence of the labor over the attainment of salvation.“ These are bold words from Saint Theophan at the end of Letter 59. However, they do not arise simply from his own experience but from the entire spiritual tradition. Part of the problem in modern times is that we have lost the clarity that is necessary for those in the spiritual battle and the weapons that we have been provided in abundance. Purity of heart, the struggle with a Passions, unceasing prayer, the invocation of the name of Christ; all of these things are part of the arsenal of the Christian and allow him to enter into the spiritual battle without fear. This lack of fear is not a natural virtue but rather comes from our awareness that we are not on the battlefield alone. We have been given access to an inexhaustible source of grace; the Holy Spirit dwells within us and not only elevates our prayer but raises us up to a radical intimacy with the Triune God. What is it that we could possibly lose in this life that is not regained immeasurably in Christ? Perfect love cast out all fear. We dare not tolerate a worldly wisdom that would convince us that the spiritual battle presented before us is for monks alone. All who desire Christ, all who desire the love of the heavenly bridegroom, will be willing to engage in this battle regardless of the costs.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:11:22 Andrea Boring: hi!
00:11:35 Andrea Boring: it says the video was disabled by host!
00:11:47 Edward Kleinguetl: Hi!
00:14:13 The Pittsburgh Oratory: Welcome Andrea
00:14:57 Mark Cummings: Father has a lot of power
00:15:37 Andrea Boring: no :( no worries. it's ok.
00:47:20 renwitter: To this day he will suddenly appear from around a corner in his Judo pose with Judo hands :-D
00:47:41 Ashley Kaschl: 😂😂😂
00:48:30 renwitter: I was a Kempo Patate Kid, so our sparring sessions don’t work so well…and I don’t stand a chance anyway 😂😂😂
00:48:37 renwitter: Karate*
01:08:40 Eric Williams: Attend Pitt for your BS and go to the Newman Center for your MR or MRS. ;)
01:17:10 Mark Cummings: Thank you!
01:18:57 Lilly ليلي: Thank you
Tonight we continued our reading of Hypothesis VII on the experience of death for those who have sought to live a virtuous life; how God often offers consolation or aids them by accompanying them through the experience of death. We are presented with one beautiful story after another. But, what becomes evident is that these are not simply to be read as pious stories, but rather something that speaks to how we view life as a whole including our preparation for death. We are reminded how important it is to be present to those who are dying; not just as an obligation but as a privilege to accompany a loved one in this most important moment. The stories also speak to us about the importance of forming our own hearts and those of our children from the earliest ages to understand how present God is to us at every moment of our lives. We need to shape the religious imagination in such a way that it creates within us an urgent longing for what God alone promises.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:30:16 Joseph Muir: What page are we on?
00:30:28 Eric Williams: 56
00:31:07 Tyler Woloshyn: First saint that comes to mind is St. Rafka, the Maronite nun-Saint, the Lily of Lebanon.
00:43:15 sue and mark: Holy death is a life long process.
00:54:25 Eric Williams: The East has a tradition of reciting the entire psalter over the recently deceased, continuously throughout day and night, if possible. It fell into disuse, but I'm told it's slowly returning. Also returning are families washing and dressing the body, as well as forgoing embalming.
00:59:00 Eric Williams: My wife's family stopped working on their grape farm in the middle of picking when they got news her grandfather was dying. In the midst of that very busy and very important period of time, they dropped everything and showed up at the nursing home in grungy clothes and covered in mud. They were able to be their for his last moments.
00:59:36 Eric Williams: *there (I hate typos :P)
01:03:08 Tyler Woloshyn: It is also chanted on Good Friday night into Holy Saturday Vigil in front of the Tomb of the Lord. Seminarians would take turns in Kathismatas.
01:04:54 renwitter: My funeral is planned and the program is printed :-D
01:06:41 Joseph Muir: My godfather became an alcoholic, so bad that, when I was a young child, younger than 10, my parents pulled away. My mom’s dad was an alcoholic, and some of the family wounds (some that are still felt today) were deep enough that they wanted to ensure my not being needlessly exposed to toxicity. Eventually, now in my 20s, he was on his deathbed, dying of sclerosis of his liver, due to decades of hard drinking. We hadn’t seen each other in probably 10+ years, and he was hooked up to a million tubes, and, while “awake”, wasn’t communicative. Even fo this day, I am convinced that our hearts spoke to each other that day, that he apologized for his addiction, since it kept us from having more of a relationship; and, in my heart, I was able to tell him that I forgave him, that I loved him, and that he could be assured of my prayers❤
01:14:47 Lisa Weidner: An important prayer to pray as someone is dying is the Divine Mercy Chaplet , and after their passing
01:22:17 Eric Williams: I'm always amazed and impressed when I see or hear about children playing "mass", whereas most would play "house, or as knights, or as policemen, firemen, or doctors.
01:25:09 renwitter: There is nothing like the sound of little voices humming “pray for us” (from the litany of our patron saints that we do) as they walk to their cars **heart eyes**
01:28:31 Sharon: Catechesis of the Good Shepherd is a beautiful catechetical model which is a fruit of Maria Montessori’s philosophy of teaching.
01:31:25 carolnypaver: Armata Bianca (White Army) was PadrePio’s vision.
01:37:49 sue and mark: catechesis of the Good Shepherd is excellent!
Tonight, in Letter 59, St. Theophan continued to guide Anastasia through the writings of Saint Hesychius of Jerusalem. Again we see how deeply connected Theophan is to the spiritual tradition as a whole. The spiritual battle is very simple, albeit not easy. We must show great attentiveness to what is going on internally and with our thoughts. When we see the enemy advance a thought, we must strike it down with anger in the heart and do so swiftly. Most of all we must pray against it, calling upon the name of Jesus Christ in the heart. The fruit of such an exercise is that we begin to walk upon that path of holy contemplation belong to the Saints, immersing ourselves more more deeply into the mysteries of Christ. It is His Spirit that dwells within us and guides us most of all and that should free us from fear in the battle. When we call upon Christ in that Spirit we lack no power to overcome the attacks of the demons.
Theophan also warns Anastasia not to ignore the secret thoughts that can approach the heart. The evil one often begins with what the fathers called “provocation”; thoughts immediately rush in and, if they are met with our thoughts willingly, the passions are stirred. Rather we must seek unceasing silence of any thought in the heart and allow that Spirit to breathe so deeply within us that we are constantly calling upon the Lord. A certain sobriety must guide our actions; we must situate ourselves at the doors of the heart in order that we might see the thoughts creeping up and understand what form the demons are attempting to inscribe and how they are seeking to entice the imagination.
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00:11:14 Lilly: Hi Nick and Natalia! Happy to see you guys made it!
00:11:28 Nicholas Koeppel: Thank you for the invite Lilly!
01:02:32 renwitter: "Stand at the brink of the abyss of despair, and when you see that you cannot bear it anymore, draw back a little and have a cup of tea" ~Elder Sophrony of Essex
01:02:39 renwitter: Or in Fr. David’s case, an espresso
01:02:42 renwitter: Or five
01:03:15 Ashley Kaschl: 😂😂
01:03:37 Joseph Muir: How about some whiskey?😂
01:04:05 Erick Chastain: why not both? Irish coffee
01:04:21 renwitter: Thats a dangerous path away from despair, but works in a pinch ;-)
01:04:25 Joseph Muir: But not five of them😆
01:04:48 Erick Chastain: some ascetic reading group this is LOL
01:05:27 renwitter: Rough day, so I had two beers with dinner tonight, which I thought was pretty indulgent. But there are four left in the fridge if I end up needing five :-D
01:16:46 Katharine M: ^‿^
01:20:18 Joseph Muir: I got my copy of The Ladder in the mail earlier this week!
01:20:43 Nicholas Koeppel: Thank you
Tonight we began our discussion of Hypothesis VII on the many times that the souls of virtuous people are made cheerful at the time of death by some divine overshadowing.
What we find in these paragraphs and the stories that they tell of the experience of those dying being consoled by God, by a vision of angels, or by saints is a portrait of how God has transformed for us the experience of death. For those who draw close to Him in faith and have embraced his grace, the moment is transformed from one of fear or terror to a moment of deep consolation and the experience of the presence of God and of his love.
On another level, this speaks to us about the nature of the Incarnation itself. All that has been assumed has been redeemed. This includes the experience of suffering and death. For those who have faith, entering into these realities - whether our own or others - should be something that we do freely.
This is how a Christian is to love. We do not live in isolation from each other; we do not suffer alone or allow others to suffer and die alone. If God comes to the aid of his faithful in these stories, it is to show us what we are to do and be for others at the moment of their death. We are to love as He loves. We are to enter into the most fearful of experiences and grasp the hand of the person that God has put before us as He will one day take hold of our own.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:13:27 Daniel Allen: What page are we on?
00:13:36 carolnypaver: 51
00:13:56 Daniel Allen: Thank you
00:33:28 carolnypaver: Some of us have no choice…
00:43:32 Jim Milholland: We are always looking to take another bite out of the proverbial apple of knowledge.
00:43:51 Eric Williams: Great way to put it!
00:45:05 Eric Williams: A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
00:49:32 Ambrose Little: It’s a memorable anecdote that can make the deeper reflection stick more, though.
00:53:18 Eric Williams: This sort of reminds me of when Jesus told people to not touch Him or hold on to Him because He had yet to ascend. Perhaps we shouldn't see these dying words as treating the wife's touch as sinful or tempting the husband to sin. Rather, he desired to depart this world and join his Lord, and his wife mustn't cling to him, preventing his departure.
00:53:39 Ambrose Little: It’s a backhanded compliment for her. Lolz
01:09:11 Eric Williams: I've read or heard countless stories of Eastern saints from whom fragrant, often miraculously healing, myrrh flowed at death. Are there similar stories from the deaths of Western saints? Is it less common in the West, and if so, why? (This might be too much of a digression, which is why I opted to type rather than raise my hand to speak.)
01:21:06 carolnypaver: “The Fourth Wiseman” (movie)has a good depiction of the leper colony.
01:24:53 Jim Milholland: A pandemic of fear and complacency
01:25:12 Ambrose Little: I could yawn a lot more. :D
01:25:19 Edward Kleinguetl: "The hunger for love is much more difficult to remove than the hunger for bread" (Mother Teresa of Calcutta).
01:29:37 Eric Williams: The Evergetinos: Sponsored by Clorox(TM)
01:31:58 Ashley Kaschl: I think, too, the technology we have (while able to be used for good) gives the illusion of action and participation so it’s easy for people to grow complacent because they think they’re acting by watching, posting, etc.
01:32:06 iPad (32) jeane kish: Outstanding teaching by the Master, Fr. David, thank you!
01:32:34 Jim Milholland: Has the pandemic been a kind of asceticism too?
Tonight we concluded Letter 58 with another wonderful story from Abba John the Dwarf. We are reminded through it that no matter how far we distance ourselves from the passions, they will always seek us out. They will try to lure us back to a position where we will welcome them into our hearts. At that moment, it is most important to run to the inner chamber, the depths of the heart, and embrace the “Ruler“, that is Christ and allow him to restore peace and calm. When we do this, we are told, it will be as if those passions never existed.
In Letter 59, Saint Theophan tells Anastasia that he has told her almost everything about spiritual warfare. There are many passions that approach us in many different ways. But the general method for combating them is the same. What he has set before her is nothing novel. St. Theophan is not an innovator. To show Anastasia this, he begins to quote at length St. Hesychius the priest. In his writings we see the essence of everything that Theophan has taught. There are four fundamental things that we must have in the spiritual battle: humility, extreme attentiveness, refutation of the thoughts, and prayer. Through these, the ascetic will see the enemy bound or chased away by the honorable name of Jesus like dust in the wind.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:29:44 renwitter: Ashley is going to catch on fire pretty soon :-D
00:52:28 renwitter: Same Anthony. Same.
00:53:39 Ashley Kaschl: Just saw this lol definitely had to blow one out 😂
00:53:46 Eric Williams: Sarcasm? *innocent whistling*
00:59:00 renwitter: They make you just too darn tired to speak unless absolutely necessary :-D
01:00:58 Eric Williams: Before you speak, THINK: Is it TRUE? Is it HELPFUL? Is it INTELLIGENT? Is it NECESSARY? Is it KIND? :)
01:02:45 Eric Williams: or exorcized ;)
01:02:56 Miron Kerul-Kmec Jr.: ^^^^
01:03:06 renwitter: Yep. Little demon child.
01:03:31 Daniel Allen: Oh that’s just a day in the life haha
01:03:33 Miron Kerul-Kmec Jr.: I can dunk it in the baptismal font! porblem solved!
01:03:43 Eric Williams: "St. Theophan would not approve of your behavior, child!"
01:03:51 Erick Chastain: can we have another session on Fridays that just consist of Fr David telling stories?
01:04:06 renwitter: I think they need a proper Byzantine exorcism.
01:04:28 Miron Kerul-Kmec Jr.: haha yep!
We read the Fathers in the way that we read the Scriptures; with a profound humility and knowledge that we lack perfect understanding. There are no experts in the desert Fathers any more than there are experts in the Faith or the Scriptures. When confronted with eternal realities, whether that reality be the eternal love of God or that of Hell one is compelled to sit in silence. When reading the Evergetinos this silence must be that of one who has a docile heart, a heart that is teachable. The heart that is teachable understands that it must suspend judgment and gradually allow God to pull back the veil that limits its vision. It is the pure of heart who come to see God. This we must acknowledge - that in the face of our sin we are not going to see and understand things clearly, much less eternal realities. We must humbly gaze upon our God with the eyes of love and through the ascetical life we must set aside the self that we so often make the idol that we worship.
Tonight we reflected in Hypothesis VI upon the glory of the Saints and the joys of heaven. Yet, we do so knowing that we see so little. We hold on to these things with hope. We hope in the One who has promised us life. We hope in the One who has died for our sins.
Most often this experience expresses the full measure and limit of our faith. We cling to the God who has revealed himself in His only begotten Son.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:01:46 The Pittsburgh Oratory: https://marginalia.lareviewofbooks.org/ammoun-sisoes-path-evergetinos-michael-centore/?fbclid=IwAR2KR3EEARnefZjqAky5KEwWYcBCUqKRs9VyX6s0RUC_fkKjILHI8GmeM14
00:01:56 The Pittsburgh Oratory: A must read!!
00:01:56 Robyn: Hi Father, hi everyone
00:04:09 The Pittsburgh Oratory: https://marginalia.lareviewofbooks.org/ammoun-sisoes-path-evergetinos-michael-centore/?fbclid=IwAR2KR3EEARnefZjqAky5KEwWYcBCUqKRs9VyX6s0RUC_fkKjILHI8GmeM14
00:11:52 The Pittsburgh Oratory: https://marginalia.lareviewofbooks.org/ammoun-sisoes-path-evergetinos-michael-centore/?fbclid=IwAR2KR3EEARnefZjqAky5KEwWYcBCUqKRs9VyX6s0RUC_fkKjILHI8GmeM14
00:20:35 Tyler Woloshyn: Newly baptized and newly illuminated infants, are new temples of the Holy Spirit. In a certain sense bowing to the Holy Spirit. Just a quick thought.
00:35:36 Lilly Crystal: 1 Corinthians 2:9 “Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man, The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.” There IS joy in suffering, though few know how to embrace it with love. We must take up our cross, no matter how heavy, and follow Him! :)
01:07:42 Eric Williams: St Ephraim wouldn't think highly of universal salvation theologies, it seems.
01:31:01 Erick Chastain: yep
01:32:03 Lilly Crystal: Thank you Father!
Our thoughts this evening and discussion revolved around a mere two paragraphs of Letter 58. Yet it is here that Saint Theophan draws Anastasia into the heart of the spiritual life; he teaches her about spiritual warfare and the prayer that is needed to engage in the battle. Through the attention of the mind moving into the heart through unceasing prayer one is not only united to God but protected from passionate thoughts, feelings, or desires as they arise. This is an unending battle while we are on this earth. Theophan would have Anastasia understand that she cannot enter into this half-heartedly. One is all whole Saint or no saint at all. One cannot live with one foot in the world and one foot in the kingdom or with a heart divided. We must give our hearts to Christ alone.
Anastasia, therefore, must not let her thoughts wander indiscriminately. For if one does it will often trigger memories, the imagination and the recollection of past sins and so trigger new ones or make us more vulnerable. When she sees such things arise she must rush to seek shelter once again in the heart before the Lord.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:06:43 Lilly: Welcome Kevin, another Canadian! :)
00:22:06 Lilly: I was told the prayer rope's tassel is meant for wiping tears, so I think emotion is good during prayer? Just a thought
00:57:40 renwitter: Talk them over with your guardian angel every night :-D
00:59:55 Lilly: @ren yes!! :)
01:01:29 Mary McLeod: Padre Pio had all his spiritual children go at least once a week
01:01:29 John Clark: The Way Of The Pilgrim can be found on kindle for $3.99.
01:07:28 Jim Milholland: Great stuff! So grateful!
“What will become of me?“ Such a simple question but one that clarifies the importance of the moment for us as men and women of faith. Where do we live our lives? What do we seek, what do we love and desire? These simple questions turn out to be the most important for us because in the end they shape our identity and the path that we take.
Moving on to Hypothesis VI, we began to consider the end of that path which is the glory of Heaven and of the Saints. We must foster a longing and develop an appetite now for the Divine. We must have a “nostalgia” for our homeland, remembering in hope the promises of God and understanding that while we are in this world we are also in exile. We are to seek to allow ourselves to be nourished more and more upon the things that foster not only strength of virtue but depth of desire for God.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:03:46 carolnypaver: Does the baby Miron have a Confirmation name?
00:29:39 Joseph Muir: Put the book title here in the chat, Daniel!!!!!!!
00:30:28 Erick Chastain: Lauris?
00:31:28 Daniel Allen: Laurus. The only thing I have ever read that is similar to it are the works of Dostoyevsky.
00:32:30 Erick Chastain: I have a copy but I haven't read it!
00:37:52 Joseph Muir: I’m a huge Russian literature fan, Dostoyevsky in particular (I’ve probably read the Brothers Karamazov 3 times)
00:40:14 renwitter: I am as well Joe! I read Laurus a while back, and have always loved Dostoyevsky, but I have to say that Solzhenitsyn is #1 for me.
00:42:08 Joseph Muir: I’ve never read anything from Solzhenitsyn, but am more than open to recommendations!
01:02:34 renwitter: Wow. That is amazing Ambrose. Thank you.
Tonight we began Letter 58. St. Theophan begins to teach Anastasia about importance of prayer in the spiritual battle. He has already shown her the various stages of temptation that lead to the development of a passion. However, he acknowledges that such understanding serves little use when one is in the midst of warfare. What is most important is rejecting the thoughts, feelings, and desires that lead to a passion and to do so with extreme prejudice. This is the one instance where wrath is allowed. We must strike down a sinful thought immediately. However, in the face of the relentless activity of the demons this may not be fully effective. In fact, most often it is not. Rather, what is most important in the spiritual life is the constant turning of the mind and the heart toward God through brief aspirations; especially the Jesus Prayer. We must not let our thoughts wander. Nor, must we simply seek to expose the obscenity of the passion. We must not enter a verbal altercation. It is only in turning the mind and the heart to God swiftly that prevent the temptations from penetrating. When the eye of the heart is fixed upon God we rest upon the everlasting rock. We find our security in the spiritual battle in God alone. Thus, we must flee to Him.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:05:26 Art: Fr. David I’ll be listening online. With things going back to normal I’m back doing the “soccer mom” thing but in my case it’s the Jiu Jitsu dad.
00:05:55 Art: glad to be here
00:06:09 Art: nope sitting in the dojo
00:17:42 renwitter: Reservations for The Ladder of Divine Ascent books are now open! If you would like a book, please text me (Ren) at 603-341-4974 or email me at info@pittsburghoratory.org. Books can be picked up at the Oratory, or shipped (at cost) to any of the States or Canada. Please use the following link to pay for your copy once your reservation is confirmed: www.pghco.org/books . There are three price points: $26 for the book, $34ish for the book + shipping in the US, and $46 for the book and shipping to Canada. We have 46 copies, so we should be able to accommodate everyone who would like one, at least at first. God bless!
00:18:22 renwitter: pghco.org/books
00:18:41 Lisa Weidner: Thank you, Ren
00:20:44 renwitter: Also, for anyone wondering. The edition Father David will be using will be the blue, hardcover edition currently being published by Holy Transfiguration Monastery Press
00:55:19 Andrew Ewell: Thanks Ren that's great
00:57:08 sue and mark: yes, thank you ren
00:58:24 renwitter: Jesus Prayers all the time!!
01:04:29 Andrew Ewell: Beautiful story
01:05:32 Andrew Ewell: Yes!!
01:15:42 Art: Welcome Ashley. Glad to see someone else from The Valley (Phx)
Such power in a few words. Perhaps this is what makes the writings of the Fathers so compelling. In a few brief sentences or in the short story they capture for us the very essence of the life of faith. We begin to see with a kind of radical simplicity, a simplicity perhaps with which we are uncomfortable, the clear focus that we are to have in our pursuit of God. We must allow nothing to prevent our movement towards Him. We have been promised a share in life eternal; where the joy of life will have no end, where intimacy will have no limitations, where there will be no fear or anxiety. This is what our hearts are to be set upon; this is what spurs us on to travel the narrow path in the pursuit of God and the things of the kingdom.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:19:00 Lisa Weidner: Hello,
00:19:17 Lisa Weidner: What page are we reading? thank you
00:19:24 carolnypaver: 44
00:20:00 Lisa Weidner: thanks!
00:25:25 Joseph Muir: This passage reminds me of a common Byzantine prayer for the dead:
“O Christ our God, with the saints grant rest to the soul of your departed servant, in a place where there is no pain, no grief, no sighing, but everlasting life.”
00:25:52 carolnypaver: Lovely.
00:53:51 Tyler Woloshyn: Once again it connects to me liturgically with this excerpt. Sixth Ode for Preparation of Holy Communion: "Whirled about in the abyss of sin, I appeal to the unfathomable abyss of Your Compassion: Raise me, O God, from corruption." "Create in me a pure heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me." "O Savior, sanctify my mind and soul, my heart and body, and deem me worthy to approach Your awesome Mysteries without condemnation." "Cast me not from Your presence, nor deprive me of Your Holy Spirit." "O Christ, grant that I may be ride of my passions and grow in Your grace. May I be strengthened and confirmed in life by communion of Your holy Mysteries."
00:54:53 carolnypaver: Wow!
01:01:36 Eric Williams: I remember when watching Brother Sun, Sister Moon was a traditional experience at Oratory retreats. ;)
01:02:26 Tyler Woloshyn: It has been a movie that a vocations director recommended people watch. On my to watch list.
01:02:54 Carole DiClaudio: Good to know; I’ve never watched it.
01:03:36 carolnypaver: Very 1970’s but the message is there.
01:06:24 Wayne Mackenzie: Brother Sun, Brother Moon..
01:07:20 carolnypaver: Yep.
01:08:19 Carole DiClaudio: ??
01:09:16 Wayne Mackenzie: It's the name of the movie about St.Fancis
Tonight St. Theophan continues to take Anastasia through the various stages where one gradually gives oneself over to the passion. There is no obligation to commit a sin; there is only a kind of inner self-delusion taking place. We might not commit a sin but nonetheless we are giving ourselves over to the inclination and by considering the thoughts that lead to the passion they become written upon our hearts. This being so, we inevitably become more vulnerable to future attacks. It is for this reason that we must prevent ourselves from getting to the point where we begin to pre-meditate on how to commit an act of sin. Theophan warns Anastasia that the fear of God as easily set aside as is our conscience. Both are dismissed and we move swiftly away from them in order to feel uninhibited in the committing of a sin. Having reached this stage we are unable to strike it out of our hearts easily simply through a kind of verbal denial. The inclination to the sin attaches itself to us and we begin to taste its unpleasant fruits. Grace then deserts us and we feel the weight of the sin crush us. We expect paradise from the satisfaction of the passion. We mimic Adam and Eve who gave themselves over to the delusion - “For ye shall be as gods.” However, when the delusion fails, we find ourselves simply diminished and our hearts filled with anguish and emptiness. And so, Theophan tells Anastasia that she must act quickly to banish such thoughts, desires, and feelings as soon as they manifest themselves. Procrastination is our enemy. Drive away the thought, the feeling, the desire, and the inclination toward the passion disappears.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:23:06 Mark Cummings: This book should be required reading in Catholic high schools
00:23:53 Joseph Muir: Sadly, I imagine that it wouldn’t readily be considered, due to the author be a saint of the Orthodox Church, and not Catholic
00:24:57 Mark Cummings: sadly, probably true
00:32:46 Joseph Muir: To be fair, I do think that, in a very real sense, Eastern Christianity (including Catholicism) is Christianity’s best kept secret. Point being, many simply never come in contact with some of these great writers, and some even know the Greek fathers of the church do the degree that they’re commemorated on the western calendar. The difference with an Eastern Christian is that the theology of these saints is lived and breathed in the daily Byzantine prayers
00:33:50 Joseph Muir: One is far more likely to come in contact with non-Catholic luminaries like CS Lewis than St Theophane the Recluse
00:37:56 Mark Cummings: It took me 55 years to find Saint Theophan. I read 7 or so CS Lewis books by the time I was 18
00:37:58 John Clark: I think the nuns that taught at my school missed the memo on the anger passion..We were criminally assaulted numerous times....personally 20 times ....mostly beat with boards.....the last time for me was a round house sucker punch closed fist by a beefy nun in the 7th grade..
00:39:02 Wayne Mackenzie: Agreed, including the Divine Liturgy, the hours and other prayers have the theme of repentance and purity of heart.
00:39:03 Andrew Ewell: Would Cassian’s list of passions be a straightforward list across the board of the passions which the Father’s have in mind?
00:40:24 Andrew Ewell: Ok
00:45:07 Joseph Muir: I’m sorry that you had to go through that, John Clark😞
00:46:57 Mark Cummings: John, that is horrible. Robin might say "Holy PTSD, Batman" I am sorry to hear that you went through that
00:47:18 Wayne Mackenzie: John, Corporal punishment was very common in schools at one time..
00:53:10 St. Elias: “I became as a deaf man…” Psalm 37 (Matins)
00:54:34 Erick Chastain: The difference between theophany/climacus and Aquinas is the difference between the stoics and Aristotle basically
00:56:14 Edward Kleinguetl: Abba Isaiah of Scetis believes that the passions were distorted: The person, then, who wishes to attain this natural state removes all his carnal desires in order that God may establish him in the state according to nature. Desire is the natural state of intellect because without desire for God there is no love … but the enemy twisted this into shameful desire, a desire for every impurity. Ambition, also, is the natural state of the intellect for without ambition there is no progress toward God, as it is written in the epistle, be ambitious of the higher gifts [1 Cor. 12:31]. However, our godly ambition has been turned into an ambition that is contrary to nature, so we are jealous, envious, and deceitful toward each other.
00:56:28 Erick Chastain: Aquinas harmonizes the two as follows: the passions according to the eastern fathers (influenced by the stoics through evagrius) are inordinate passions in the Aquinas sense. For Aquinas, the passions themselves if they are according to nature/reason are without sin
00:57:12 Andrew Ewell: Thanks Eric
00:57:33 Joseph Muir: I stumbled upon this last night, but found it to be a fascinating read (it’s a long discussion/debate between Catholics and Orthodox regarding various aspects of Greek vs Latin theology; I found the arguments on both sides to generally be very cogent and respectful, with my hot take being that our differences are far less vast than some of our more polemical apologists may make it seem): http://forums.orthodoxchristianity.net/threads/body-blood-soul-and-divinity-of-the-eucharist.77167/?fbclid=IwAR28KWJBA2fR0i27SiTkzOea19PjCWN9lfmkwGduGK8OuEqFtiJT8-JcvTs
00:59:46 Andrew Ewell: Thanks Joe
01:03:47 sue and mark: exodus 90 is great!
01:04:38 Mark Cummings: Exodus 90 is great...I would not tie it directly to the desert fathers though
We continue this evening with our study of Hypothesis V - on the remembrance of death and final judgment. While this might fill the minds and the hearts of many with trepidation, many of the fathers see the remembrance of death as the essential work in the spiritual life. The reason for this and the intention behind it is not to fill the heart with anxiety but rather to turn the heart toward God Who alone promises us forgiveness and the fullness of life and love in Him. The Scriptures tell us that God is set upon our salvation and so hope is always to be found in Him. His love for us is unquenchable. As we have heard, the mere turning of the mind and the heart toward him brings upon us a flood of mercy and grace. The remembrance of death and judgment are simply an aid to remind us not to take this gift lightly. God has given us everything and has nothing greater to give – the perfect love of His only begotten Son. It is that love that is eternal and we will either respond to that love or we don’t. Now is the moment of salvation and how we respond perpetuates itself both in this world and in the world come unless we turn toward God in repentance. Once our eyes close for the last time that opportunity - to turn toward the embrace that is ever reaching out towards us - passes.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:02:09 carolnypaver: Wow! Sounds exhausting!
00:44:55 Joseph Muir: Here are two prayers from Byzantine vespers, according to the Gregorian calendar, from earlier today, in a similar vein to the one that I read earlier:
O Christ, You are the only sinless One, the only patient One, the only Source of goodness! Look upon my misery and affliction. Wipe away all the scars of my wounds. In your mercy, save your servant; that having driven away all clouds of despair, O Savior, I may glorify Your supreme goodness!
Ponder your deeds, O my wretched soul! Behold how they are all defiled with filth! Behold your nakedness and your isolation. For you are in danger of being separated from God and His holy angels and of being delivered to eternal torments. Be vigilant, then, and make haste to cry aloud: “O Savior, I have sinned! Grant me Your forgiveness and save me!”
00:48:21 Joseph Muir: ¡De nada!
00:53:35 Wayne Mackenzie: Don't we send ourselves to Hell, rather than God?
00:54:35 Eric Williams: "There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'" C. S. Lewis
01:05:39 Lilly: I’ve never seen that Icon before. I will have to look it up. What is it called?
01:06:54 Erick Chastain: except judas
01:07:14 Erick Chastain: the patristic witness to judas being in hell is pretty clear
01:07:23 Erick Chastain: /consistent
01:07:28 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: icon of fearful or awesome judgement, aka last judgement, sometimes might also be called icon of or for Meatfare Sunday.
01:09:09 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: in the Coptic orthodox tradition there is a point of view that Judas Iscariot repented between the time when he jumped and when the rope broke his neck, but I cannot find the exact quote.
Tonight we picked up with Letter 57 where St. Theophan is discussing with Anastasia the various stages of the development of the passions; the movement from feelings, the provocation of desire, aided by a multitude of thoughts, that then gives over to concrete resolution to commit to sin. There is a kind of premeditation that is fostered by giving ourselves over to these realities and stages that Theophan describes. If unchecked we begin to plot even in a half-conscious way how we are going to act and complete the sin. It is then that the conscience is violated and the commands of God are disregarded. In this struggle we are ever so capable of rationalizing sin and the path to sin. Yet, what we are called to is to put on the mind of Christ. It cannot be our own ego or our reason that becomes the standard of judgment. Rather, we must allow ourselves to be drawn into the Paschal mystery; we must put on the mind of Christ in such a profound way that it is Christ acting within us. Only then will we begin to love as he loves, to forgive as he forgives; willing to be obedient to the Father and to His commands even when cannot see things clearly. Our love for Christ must be so great that our asceticism takes on the shape described by Theophan and the fathers; that is, we become willing to take every thought captive and make it obedient to Christ - bringing every thought before Him for His blessing or judgment.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:18:21 Gilmar Siqueira: And Brazil. :)
00:18:34 carolnypaver: Awesome!
00:18:47 Mark Cummings: Thank you for doing this remotely!
00:28:12 Gilmar Siqueira: Our Thoughts Determine Our Lives: the Life and Teachings of Elder Thaddeus of Vitovnica
00:28:33 Jim Milholland: Thank you!
00:45:37 Eric Williams: Turn the other cheek, love your enemy, do not resist an evil man - but in parking lot after mass, all bets are off. ;) #roadrage
00:56:04 Wayne Mackenzie: When you get this point it can be to late.. and the sin is committed
01:08:04 Eric Williams: Categories of sins too often allow us to find the minimum we must do or how much can get away with. Instead, they should be used to help us better see what to avoid and how to seek after the will of God. We should seek maximal holiness, rather than just minimal sinfulness.
01:09:03 iPhone: Venial or mortal. Sin is sin. It separates us from God. 100% agree with Father.
01:10:07 Erick Chastain: Ambroise de Lombez says that the pride to have an "orderly mind" in one's thoughts leads to scrupulosity
01:10:58 iPhone: ^ Exactly. OCD (me lol)
01:12:49 Eric Williams: Despairing that all sin damns us because God is just is the Christless cross, and rationalizing all sin as acceptable because God is merciful is the crossless Christ.
01:23:49 Eric Williams: This discussion of aggression and retaliation is very timely as I struggle to respond in a Christlike way to a very difficult and infuriating neighbor. Deo gratias!
01:24:00 Erick Chastain: anger according to st Thomas Aquinas is any kind of desire to take action to set something right
01:24:34 Erick Chastain: ...it's not necessarily the emotion which leads to violent action
01:24:52 Erick Chastain: ...for example, just calling the cops is already an act of anger
01:24:53 iPhone: Amen!
We continued tonight our study of Hypothesis V where the Fathers speak to us of the importance of the remembrance of death and the remembrance of judgment.
We began with the thoughts of Abba Isaiah the seeks to teach us about the three things that preserve virtue; sorrow for sin, tears for our sins, and the ceaseless recollection of death. These three hold before our minds the significance of the present moment. Every moment for us is freighted with destiny because every moment is an opportunity for us to embrace the love and the grace of God or to neglect it. We have to let go of the illusion not only that we will have time enough for repentance but also the illusion that simply living a good or a moral life is in fact living a Christian life. We may pursue virtue as a commodity; something that is gathered and stored and that builds up our self-image and self-esteem. Such things have their own value but they are not necessarily reflective of the fact that we have embraced Christ and the life that he has made possible for us through the cross. We are called to the divine life and all of our words, thoughts and actions are to be reflective of Christ. We are to be living icons of the gospel. We can approach our lives with a kind of indifference when it comes to their spiritual significance. We can expend a lot of energy and be willing struggle to pursue our own ends in this world but we will accept willingly being wounded and bitten over and over again by the spiritual dragon and bearing his stings of distraction. We can allow ourselves to be swallowed up by sin or evil daily and pay it no mind. It is for this reason that the remembrance of death and judgment is important. It speaks to us of what God has given us but also the weight and the significance of our response.
We began this evening with Letter 56. St. Theophan again takes up the subject of the passions. If we can capture in one word what he is trying to foster within Anastasia it is this: “fierceness”. The spiritual battle is something that takes place at every single moment and we have to learn to act swiftly in acknowledging who the enemy is and where he is seeking to lead us. We cannot ignore the fact there is a kind of duplicity that exists within us. We can hate sin and love it at the same time. We can be engaged in the spiritual battle but in the deeper recesses of our hearts we can be attracted and delighted by the approach of thoughts that would later lead us into sin. We must lose our sympathy for such things. We are to become angry with sin and drive it out from the human heart as Christ drove out the money-changers from the temple. What has been entrusted to us is precious. It is the very life and love of God and we have been made sons and daughters of God. We must not be willing to sacrifice that identity. This means that we approach the passions with unrestrained and antagonistic action. There is no room for self-indulgence.
In letter 57, St. Theophan tells her that guilt begins at the point when we favorably incline ourselves toward a passion. The passion itself is at enmity with God. Therefore, we must interrogate and examine it very quickly and then treat it in a hostile manner. We must treat it as we would treat anything that is an enemy of God - with scornful rejection.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:35:06 Joseph Muir: “[E]ach person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin; and sin when it is full-grown brings forth death.”
James 1:14-15
00:43:31 renwitter: Anyone else having an amazing flash back to Aragorn cutting off the head of the Lord of the Black Gate? Best. Moment. Ever.
00:44:39 carolnypaver: ; )
00:49:13 Eric Ash: I like from that image it also demonstrates to us that there's times we have to trust in others instead of taking on every battle we are offered. To be aware of where were called to be, and also where we aren't called to be.
00:55:03 Lilly Crystal: What quote is that from?
01:09:58 Eric Ash: It's sounds like in discerning guilt from shame here is that guilt motivates us to reaffirm ourselves to back to God, and shame tells us fall away and quit trying. And that anger towards passion versus anger towards self is similar.
We continued this evening with our study of Hypothesis V and the writings of Saint Ephraim on the subject of the importance of remembering death and judgment. Like so many of the Fathers, Ephraim stresses the need to prepare ourselves for that final journey that inevitably comes to us all – the moment of death. He also speaks to us about how the enemy will try to make us delay or put aside our attention to this reality. When it comes to life in this world death, in a sense, is the ultimate master. Death, of course, does not have the last the last word. God has spoken His Word of Life and through it has opened up a path for us to experience the fullness of the life of the Holy Trinity. The enemy, however, will try to convince us that we are young and have a great amount of time; that we can put off repentance until after we lived life in this world to its fullest. However, Ephraim tells us that the one who is truly blessed is the one who has carried the yoke of Christ from his earliest days. In fact, this is the greatest gift that a parent can give to their child. From the moment of their baptism they enter into this profound relationship with God. To be taught to embrace the gift of being a child of God is the greatest thing that a parent can offer their son or daughter. The Fathers, like Christ in the gospel, want us have no illusions about the fact that how we respond to the love perpetuates itself unto eternity. What is offered to us is Love; and that Love can be embraced or it can be scorned and neglected. The Fathers pleas with us as Christ did to embrace life, to embrace love. This is what Christ thirsts for – that His love would be requited.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:59:50 renwitter: That parable always sounds a bit catty if it is not explained well :-D
01:05:11 Erick Chastain: that was in one of the psalms
01:14:28 Eric Williams: Fortunately, when I joined the Church in 2000, Fr David was still preaching fire and brimstone, so my catechesis was not warm, fuzzy, or weak. ;)
01:24:18 Nicole: Sorry! Did you want our microphones on so we are hearing each other pray?
01:24:43 Nicole: I forgot LOL
Have a great week everyone, thank you Father :)
We began with Letter 55 about Warfare with the Passions. Once again Theophan shows himself to be a magnificent teacher. He knows Anastasia well; her strengths, her background, her desire for God and - - her weaknesses, which are few, namely inexperience. She desires above all to embrace the full dignity of the Christian. And it is this goal that Theophan wants to help her achieve. He begins to reveal to her the nature of the warfare with the passions. Often they are very attractive and so we can suddenly be drawn into them and linger in conversation with them. It is for this reason that Theophan gradually begins to teach her that she must not act with pity when it comes to dealing with her own thoughts. No matter how trivial or insignificant they appear, she must immediately call upon God and drive them out of her mind. If she inadvertently falls or is overtaken by one of the passions, she should not be anxious. Rather Anastasia should humbly repent at the passion that has slipped in and then adopt measures for the future in order that she might be more guarded. One method that she must embrace is to avoid self-indulgence. It is the Traitor. Self-indulgence is to blame for all the troubles in the spiritual life. It leads us into the kind of self-pity that inclines us to give sway to our thoughts without examining them and bringing them before God for his blessing or judgment.
In Letter 56 he begins to show Anastasia the slightest movements of the passions. He tells her that she has made great strides in her life and can see good and evil. But in reality she has not been tested. Again, one of her weaknesses is that she could regard stronger passions with indifference; thinking that they are no great thing or that they are not dangerous. When this happens they go from being small things to becoming large things. She will no longer be able to drive them away with a single unfavorable glance. If she wants to maintain Christian dignity, he tells her, she must become a more fierce warrior.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:12:46 Joseph Muir: I got to see Queen + Adam Lambert in Central Park, in September 2019, Eric😀
00:20:22 Joseph Muir: I can tell that Fr David is big fan of country music😆
00:20:37 Eric Williams: despondency, the demon at noon!
00:36:32 Eric Williams: except when people mistakenly refer to the deceased as angels - that is all that seems to be left :(
00:37:30 renwitter: At the Oratory’s Children’s Holy Hour of Adoration we always say a prayer to our guardian angels. We can bring it back!
00:39:49 Wayne Mackenzie: At our parish we recite the prayer to St Michael at the end of the Liturgy.
00:41:18 Eric Williams: It's rampant on social media
00:43:39 Joseph Muir: It’s almost like a new form of the ancient gnostic heresy, where people presume to have some “secret knowledge” about how the world works, all of the scandals and happenings throughout our own society and the world
00:48:35 Mark Cummings: Cubs are up 3 - 0
00:48:48 Mark Cummings: thought pirates fans might want to know
00:50:49 Lilly Crystal: Self reflection is super important. If we just confess sins and don’t plan to change in our actions, we will not mature spiritually
00:51:48 Wayne Mackenzie: For me need to quit watching the news or get absorbed in what is happening.
00:52:05 Larry Barlow: So true. Gotta have a plan!
00:52:39 Wayne Mackenzie: limiting my time to it or not agitation sets in
00:54:33 Joseph Muir: So many have such a politicized faith, and/or faithisized politics that they’ve convinced themselves that they’re doing “the work of the Lord”
00:58:37 Lilly Crystal: Eastern penance is so new to me. It was awesome to experience my first Byzantine confession last month :)
01:03:00 Joseph Muir: A common Byzantine prayer before receiving communion: receive me now, O Son of God, as a participant in Your Mystical Supper. For I will not betray Your mysteries to Your enemies, nor will I give You a kiss like Judas. But, like the thief, I confess to You: remember me, O Lord, when You come into Your kingdom!
01:03:51 carolnypaver: I LOVE that prayer! It is so beautiful.
01:04:34 Lilly Crystal: It is one of my fav too! Such beautiful prayer chanted as well
01:05:01 renwitter: Well shoot - no advantage for me :-D
01:06:42 Eric Williams: Theophan is following the Pauline sequence: praise, chastise, encourage
01:07:00 Joseph Muir: ❤
01:09:42 Mark Cummings: Psalm 137?
01:11:26 carolnypaver: Happy Feast Day, Father!
01:11:46 Michael Murton: Thanks Father David...looking forward to next week!
01:12:34 renwitter: A good Philip Neri quote for this group: “Heaven is not for poltroons!”
We continued with our reading of Hypothesis Five where the Fathers discuss with us the importance of remembering death as well as judgment. Such thoughts are not to elicit fear within the heart but rather magnify the significance of the moment and help us live in the moment as opposed to the past or the future. Every moment is freighted with destiny because every moment is an opportunity to love or not to love. The remembrance of death teaches us not to put off repentance and not to doubt the mercy of God when we find ourselves caught up in our sin. It also teaches us to listen keenly to the voice of our conscience as it calls us back to God. This is a fundamental and permanent element of the spiritual life and so should be cultivated with great discipline and care.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:31:03 Erick Chastain: "sin makes you stupid"
00:48:19 Michael Liccione: Negative anthropology becomes very attractive if you spend much time on social media.
00:51:09 sue and mark: now it makes sense.
00:58:26 renwitter: First he coughs at me, then he yawns at Ambrose. . . geez. I think the next time Erick starts talking we should all start quacking or something.
00:58:45 Michael Liccione: LOL
00:58:49 Carole DiClaudio: hahaha
00:58:59 Lilly Crystal: Lol @ren
00:59:00 Erick Chastain: Yeah sorry everyone for that.
00:59:16 Joseph Muir: 🤣
00:59:49 Erick Chastain: It's the live experience I guess
01:00:05 Michael Liccione: Your lived experience :)
01:01:04 renwitter: I love that our chat transcript is published along with the podcast 😂😂😂
01:01:09 Daniel Allen: Only adds to the group it’s hilarious.
01:02:01 Erick Chastain: Yeah who needs TV?
01:08:39 Sharon: Otherwise, would that be the sin of presumption?
01:08:59 renwitter: And terrifying
01:11:34 Ambrose Little: Work out your salvation with fear and trembling. (Phil 2:12)
01:11:39 Sharon: … and ought we not canonize people when they die?
01:12:55 Sharon: I don’t mean canonized saints, but just anyone at the time of death.
01:13:18 Michael Liccione: No
01:14:56 Sharon: I agree. It just seems like no matter whose funeral, people talk as though they absolutely know the deceased is in heaven.
It was an extremely powerful group this evening; as one might expect in a discussion about the passions. In letter 54, Saint Theophan begins to instruct Anastasia about the nature of the passions and where they spring from in our lives. Theophan tells her that they are not part of who we are as human beings. They can be removed without destroying the soul. In fact, he instructs her that unless we drive them out they will leave a person in ruins. When they control a human being - in many respects they become more like an animal. Their will and their consciousness are driven and controlled by what is not in accord with nature and with how God has created us. The passions, according to Theophan, arise out of the desire to please one’s self, selfishness and pride. The passions are sustained by these. When we give ourselves over to them we are dragged along like a young ass on a cord behind its owner. Therefore, the Saint tells Anastasia that she must not be sparing with herself. She has been controlled by these passions even though that they have not dominated her life. He would have her understand our capacity for self-pity and so also our capacity for self-deceit. The passions can seem and make themselves seem attractive. Thus, we must, in accordance with the Scriptures, be sober and vigilant. We must watch and pray. It is this radical alertness the keeps us from falling victim to the relentless attack of the evil one which can be direct or very subtle. When you look inside of yourself you will see all the many subtle attachments that keep you from embracing the will of the Lord. This is the first thing in the struggle with the passions and she must learn this lesson well.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:17:12 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: the best modern day book on the passions is: Therapy of Spiritual Illness: An Introduction to the Ascetic Tradition of the Orthodox Church (Therapy of Spiritual Illness, I,II,III boxed set) Paperback – January 1, 2012 by Dr Jean-Claude Larchet
00:17:23 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: you can get it in paperback
00:17:44 Erick Chastain: I love those books!
00:38:03 Eric Williams: How, then, do we avoid the heresy of quietism?
00:45:18 Eric Williams: Sorry for being generic. ;)
00:54:23 Eric Williams: Fair point :)
00:57:10 Erick Chastain: LOL I really didn't intend to sidetrack us big time like this
00:57:29 Lilly Crystal: All amazing points :)
00:59:31 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: It is to be remembered that there is a secular definition of “passion”, for example: “Passion is a feeling of intense enthusiasm towards or compelling desire for someone or something. Passion can range from eager interest in or admiration for an idea, proposal, or cause; to enthusiastic enjoyment of an interest or activity; to strong attraction, excitement, or emotion towards a person” (Wikipedia). Thus, we have the Western Christian definition in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, § 1767, 1773, where a “passion” is a morally neutral concept.
00:59:50 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: In the Eastern Christian definition, used here, and in the official catechism of the UGCC: Christ Our Pascha § 795, “passion” is always a vice, one of the eight capital sins. In the East, a “passion” (from pathos in Greek) is any deadly obsession that seems to be beyond our ability to control, let alone to recognize, in ourselves. “Passions” arise from “logismoi”, literally “thoughts”, that act on and overcome people, becoming habits of thinking, feeling-willing, and desiring over which we have little or no control. Thus, a passion is any spiritual “cancer”, poetically described as a “death-bearing” or “soul-corrupting” sin.
01:00:09 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: Those Eastern Church Fathers, whose works were written between the 4th and 15th centuries and collected and published in the Philokalia-Добротолюбіє, list “by name a total of 248 passions and 228 virtues” (see English language edition, page 205, Volume 3). The Greek word “pathos” can also mean and be translated as “sufferings, desires, energies, zealous activities, cravings” depending on its context.
01:01:33 Lisa Weidner: Thank you, Fr John
01:02:19 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: In 375 AD, Archdeacon Evagrius of Pontus (c. 346-399) developed a com¬pre¬hen¬sive list of eight evil assaulting “thoughts” (Greek: logismoi, Ukrain¬ian: помисли). Through the centuries this was systematized in the East by various saints, mostly St. Maximos the Confessor (590-662). The assaulting “thoughts” act on and over¬come people, becoming habits or compulsions of thinking, feeling-willing, and desiring over which we end up having little or no control. At this point, the “thoughts” are said to have become “passions” (Greek: pathеа, Ukrainian: пристрасті).
01:02:49 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: In the East, the passions are a distortion, deprivation or misdirection of the intellective, appetitive and incensive powers of the soul. See Tables at: http://ocampr.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/the-christian-ascetic-tradition-on-dejection-and-despondency-david-holden-2004.pdf. The “passions” enslave us and thereby are the chief cause of our sufferings. In liberating us from sin and the effects of sin, our Lord delivers us from our passions as well as the pain which they cause. St. Gregory the Dialogist (Pope of Rome from 590-604) would revise Evagrius’ list to form what, in the West, is today more commonly known as “the Seven Deadly Vices”, or Sins.
01:03:14 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: St. John “of the Ladder” (Climacus, 579-649) was of the opinion that although the passions (пристрасті) were not directly created by God, they are still naturally good, except for akedia-listlessness, despondency. In Step 26, 156, of his Ladder of Divine Ascent, he writes: “Nature gives us the seed for childbearing, but we have perverted this into fornication. Nature provides us with the means of showing anger against the serpent, but we have used this against our neighbour. Na¬ture inspires us with zeal to make us compete for the virtues, but we compete in evil. It is natural for the soul to desire glory, but the glory on high. It is natural to be over¬bearing, but against the demons. Joy is also natural to us, but a joy on account of the Lord and the welfare of our neighbour. Nature has also given us resentment, but to be used against the enemies of the soul. We have received a desire for food, but not for profligacy.”
01:03:29 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: It is when we use our free will to misdirect the passions from the good towards the evil, that we allow the passions to gain control over us. This, in turn, is how the thieves, or demons, are empowered by us to rob us of eternal life. A helpful passage on this latter point regarding what demons do, is to be found in the homily at: https://www.holycross-hermitage.com/blogs/articles-sermons/sermon-for-the-sunday-of-st-john-climacus-2017
01:13:51 Mark Cummings: I hope he was talking to a do
01:13:53 Mark Cummings: dog
01:15:22 renwitter: Mark! :-D Hahhaha. LOL
01:19:19 Lilly Crystal: Pray, Hope and Don’t Worry! -Padre Pio
Tonight we picked up with Hypothesis IV. Its focus is that those afflicted by the passions should be guided slowly in the works of repentance. To help us understand this we are given a wonderful story of a young man who is sent into the fields to clear them. However upon seeing them filled with thorns and weeds he very quickly becomes depressed at the thought of the work that was ahead of him. He lays down in the grass and goes to sleep. His father on approaching him ask him why he has been so negligent. The young man states that he was overwhelmed. Wisely and with compassion the father simply tells him to sleep in a different place every night so as to flatten out the grass and the weeds simply where he chooses to lay down. This is the son did and over time he was able to clear the entire field. This is a wonderful parable because it shows us how difficult the spiritual life can be at the beginning. The bar is set very low by the father so as not to discourage. We must invest ourselves and create a rule to follow. That is a given. However, we must have patience and an awareness of our poverty. We must work within our limits until God adds grace to grace and we are able to complete the task. The spiritual life is not simply about our will but rather our embrace of the grace of God in the moment.
In Hypothesis Five, the fathers begin to describe the importance of keeping the thought of death and future judgment in mind in order that one might struggle constantly against the passions. Remembering death daily will begin to free us from unduly attaching ourselves to worldly things or losing ourselves in the work of our own hands. The remembrance of death dispels the illusion of pleasures and lifts up the soul when it is inclined to sin. All the stories in this section seek to remind us not to be prideful about our spiritual pursuits or to see them as arising from our own efforts. They also remind us not to put off our conversion from day to day for we are not guaranteed a long life. We know neither the day nor the hour when God will call us to himself and when we will stand in the fullness of his light. This is the very nature of God. To come into His presence is to be penetrated by the light of truth. Nothing shall be hidden and so nothing in this life should be taken for granted or taken lightly.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:15:11 Lilly Crystal: Welcome Kyle and Andrew! Happy you guys could make it :)
00:15:35 Kyle Davidson: thanks for the invite, Lily
00:35:26 Tyler Woloshyn: Spiritual directors mention that God's work is clearest in the hidden. The liminal space, or that threshold a person crosses is where God is working the most in the soul of the Christian. Not focusing on the past or worrying about the future. It is like a furnace and forge at work simultaneously.
00:38:54 Lilly Crystal: @Diana welcome hermana so happy you could make it :)
00:53:01 Lilly Crystal: “4 Last Things” by Father Isaac Mary Relyea is an amazing 4-part sermon… New Yorker by the way ;)
00:57:04 Tyler Woloshyn: "As I arise from sleep, I thank You O Most Holy Trinity, for Your great goodness and patience with me, an idler and a sinner. You have not become indignant towards me, nor have You allowed me to die in my sins. Instead, You have shown me the love that You have for all mankind. You raised me from sleep, that I may greet this new day in prayer and glorify Your sovereign power. And now enlighten my eyes of understanding, open my understanding, open my ears to receive Your words, and teach me Your commandments. Help me to do Your will, to sing to You, to profess You from all my heart, and to praise Your all-holy name, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, now and for ever and ever. Amen." (Morning prayer of St. Basil the Great)
01:00:58 Joseph Muir: Prayer of Saint John of Damascus, to be prayed before going to sleep:
O Lord, Lover of Mankind, is this bed to be the coffin, or will You enlighten my wretched soul with another day? Here the coffin lies before me, and here death confronts me. I fear, O Lord, Your Judgment and the endless torments; yet I cease not to do evil. My Lord and God, I continually anger You, and Your Immaculate Mother, and all the Heavenly Powers, and my Holy Guardian Angel. I know, O Lord that I am unworthy of Your love, but deserve condemnation and every torment. But, whether I want it or not, save me, O Lord. For to save a good man is no great thing, and to have mercy on the pure is nothing wonderful, for they are worthy of Your mercy. But show the wonder of Your mercy to me, a sinner. In this, reveal Your love for Man, lest my wickedness prevail over your unutterable goodness and mercy. And order my life as you will. Amen.
01:01:45 Tyler Woloshyn: In ancient Rome, whenever a Roman General or Emperor returned from a victory in battle. During the Triumphant parade, there would be a man hired to whisper into his ear, "Thou art mortal."
01:11:19 Tyler Woloshyn: Thank you for the wonderful lesson tonight Father. I am off to a Moleben to the Mother of God. Have a blessed evening everyone.
01:11:36 Kyle Davidson: thanks for the talk. I have to join a new call.
01:11:52 renwitter: We should have shirts made that say YODO - You Only Die Once. Get Ready.
01:12:17 carolnypaver: Oh yeah!
01:12:17 Joseph Muir: I’d buy one, Ren!
01:12:18 Lilly Crystal: @Ren omg lol
01:12:52 renwitter: I’ll design it. With a nice little skull. Maybe a prayer rope.
01:13:06 Eric Williams: Life is Short: Pray Hard
01:13:07 Lilly Crystal: Yesss girl
01:14:18 Joseph Muir: You could collaborate with https://instagram.com/pursuedbytruth?utm_medium=copy_link
01:16:13 Lilly Crystal: @Joseph coolest nun ever
01:17:18 Eric Williams: The second law of thermodynamics tells that nothing left alone stays the same. Anything we don't put energy into will degrade into chaos.
01:17:44 renwitter: Ooo. I love that. Lessons in the spiritual life straight from the natural world **heart**
01:20:06 carolnypaver: Are there any books left to purchase?
01:20:12 renwitter: No, not at the Oratory
01:20:18 renwitter: But direct from the Publisher
01:20:55 sue and mark: retreat!!!!!
We began this evening with letter 52. St. Theophan continues to discuss with Anastasia the importance of warming the heart. Our passions have so dampened the wood that it can no longer be enkindled. We must go out in search of dry wood. We must protect that part of ourselves that have perhaps not been permeated by the passions. More importantly we must draw close to God that it might inflame our hearts and free our spirit.
All of this is a preparation for letter 53. St. Theophan begins to discuss with Anastasia the passions and how they are an obstacle to the spirit that burns with the love for God. They must be expelled. The passions are not a part of us as human beings. They arise out of our fallen state and our sin and they permeate every aspect of who we are as human beings. The are alien to us and parasitic. These passions, then, acting in collusion with the demons take control of the person even if he thinks that he is in control of himself. It is the spirit that must first escape their grip. And this only comes when the grace of God pulls it free. The spirit, then, filled with the fear of God and the action of grace develops a resoluteness. However, the emergence of this resoluteness in the pursuit of God must be accompanied by the willingness to labor for many years. We are to engage in a spiritual warfare against the passions. Theophan describes thrashing them; driving them out of the temple of our hearts as Christ drove out the money-changers from the temple in Jerusalem. The remembrance of God is the foothold for life in the spirit. It is for this reason the Theophan has spent so much time speaking with Anastasia about it. She has only come to acknowledge and recognize the passions within her. She has of yet, and perhaps we have as yet, not entered fully into the spiritual battle. She must not, he tells her, be bashful but prepare herself to enter fully and vigorously into the battle and to expose her passions and sins to the light.
Text of chat during the group:
00:19:04 Joseph Muir: What’s the name of the biography on St Philip Neri?
00:42:33 Lilly Crystal: Hi Father, Sorry for being late! ❤️🙏
00:45:34 Lilly Crystal: I love your rants, Father😂
00:48:37 Eric Williams: So when are you founding a seminary, Father? ;)
00:53:11 Eric Williams: It’s a shame so many in the West rejected and opposed hesychasm (or at least what they believed it to be).
00:54:36 Wayne Mackenzie: And the prayer life forgotten.
00:57:09 Eric Williams: Vitamin G[od] ;)
00:58:03 renwitter: Robert Bellarmine was the Theology teacher of the first Oratorians :-D Can you imagine?
01:02:07 Sharon: Beautifully said…Amen!
01:06:58 Mark Cummings: Ren- If you have not read the Art of Dying Well then I recommend that you do. I recently read it and it really resonates with me.
01:07:17 renwitter: Thrashing demons away from myself and others is what I imagine when I am praying Jesus Prayers with my prayer rope - it makes a good whip ;-)
01:12:44 renwitter: My real name is Anastasia :-D
01:20:28 Lilly Crystal: Always a joy to listen❤️
This evening we concluded Hypothesis III on “how a person should repent”. The elders begin by emphasizing sorrow in the spiritual life. This is not a sorrow that leads a person into depression or despondency. It is not rooted in shame but rather in the acknowledgment of the impact of our sin on the relationship that we have with God and also how we have treated the grace and mercy that he has shown us. Sorrow, therefore, is to be carried along in the spiritual life as a bridle for the soul which will keep us from falling into sin once again. Granted, this is a very difficult thing for us to understand and embrace. We do everything in our power to alleviate the sorrow tied to sin or to escape it. But in regards to anything that afflicts or affects us on a spiritual level, it becomes the most powerful remedy. Each story this night tells us that we are to care for our passions with medicines that are at odds with them. We must consciously struggle to blot out recollections of the sins we have enjoyed with the corresponding hardships that they have brought.
Yet, in all of this the elders emphasize a kind of freedom in the embrace of a specific practice of penance. Each person is unique and God Who alone searches the depths of the mind and the heart can guide the individual along the path of true healing. There are many paths to this healing and as many remedies as there are human beings. Each person is a mystery, a mystery that only God can grasp. Therefore, our wounds can only be healed by more radically open the mind and the heart to His grace. The ascetical life simply serves as an aid in doing this.
Until next week dear friends . . .
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Text of chat during the group:
00:23:19 Daniel Allen: What page and number are we on?
00:23:28 renwitter: PAge 32
00:23:31 renwitter: #4
00:23:37 Daniel Allen: Thank you
00:46:19 Lilly Crystal: Very well said, Father :)
00:56:28 Lilly Crystal: What prayer was that?
00:57:17 Tyler Woloshyn: 6th Prayer Before Holy Communion by St Symeon the New Theologian
01:13:18 Tyler Woloshyn: Have a blessed time folks. Off to Moleben (prayer service) to the Blessed Virgin Mary.
01:15:59 Eric Williams: Their repentance had equal merit, but one of them was a lot happier. I’m a fan of the happy one. ;)
01:19:10 Lilly Crystal: Please keep my Canadian friend, Bill, in your prayers. He’s in the hospital attached to oxygen as of 2 days
01:30:05 Lilly Crystal: There’s never too many books, Father. Just not enough time :)
01:35:00 Nicole’s iPhone: Thank you!
Tonight we picked up with Letter 51, entitled “Turning the burdens of life to spiritual profit”. Saint Theophan gives Anastasia some of the best and most practical advice and counsel here. He begins to teach her a method of reinterpreting everything that comes before her eyes in a spiritual sense. She had been struggling, as we often do, with distractions in her day-to-day work and so finding it very difficult to maintain the constant remembrance of God. Therefore, gradually, Theophan teaches her how reinterpret every day activities, extraordinary and ordinary, into a means of actually drawing the mind and the heart to God. Far from being an obstacle, when spiritually reinterpreted they become the most beneficial means of moving the thoughts and imagination toward God. Theophan tells Anastasia to begin with home and the people that she knows in her every day activities; and then to do it with everything that she sees within the world and every circumstance she encounters. Gradually it will become very natural for her. At the close of the letter, however, he warns her not to spare herself. There’s a certain wrongful activity that is afflicts everyone. We spare no labor on any matter except when it comes to that of salvation. This she must remove from her heart. The most important matter is our salvation and consequently it will be the most difficult labor of our life. But it is worth it.
In Letter 52, Theophan brings Anastasia back once again to the remembrance of God. He knows that he is repeating himself and that she is probably becoming fatigued. Yet he tells her that his repetition is rooted in the fact that this remembrance of God is the most important thing of all and all power is in it. What he explains to her in this letter is that she must do all in her power to warm her heart with ever deeper devotion and reverence for God. It cannot simply be a barren remembrance but that which is guided by the deepest feelings of love and urgency. She must pray and read until she begins to notice this warmth developing within the heart. Only when she sees this happening can she be confident that it will continue to influence her throughout the course of the day. This is what the Lord himself desires: “I came to set fire on the earth of human hearts, and I could not wish for more other than that it inflame everyone as soon as possible!”
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Text of chat during the group:
00:29:07 Lilly Crystal: Gracias hermana @Ren
00:30:37 Eric Williams: I am still disappointed and saddened that the Church did not use closed churches as an opportunity to promote the Divine Office. :(
00:30:54 renwitter: De nada mija @Lilly!
00:33:35 Eric Ash: Mother Theresa once said, "the most terrible poverty is loneliness and the feeling of being unloved." And she is someone who saw the ravages of what we traditionally call poverty.
00:35:00 Lilly Crystal: Toronto is back under severe lockdowns. 10 people max at Church. I was turned away from confession yesterday. Please keep us Canadians in your prayers
00:35:42 carolnypaver: Heartbreaking…..We’ll keep praying for an end…
00:36:12 Wayne Mackenzie: in Edmonton back in major lockdown 15 people allowed in church
00:37:12 carolnypaver: *gasp*. And I complained that AAA made me put on a mask today to get some documents notarized. :(
00:37:24 Lilly Crystal: It's truly heart breaking @Wayne
00:37:55 Eric Williams: Better to pray in the bathroom than to doomscroll through Facebook, right? ;)
00:38:07 Joseph Muir: We have it good here in the States, Carolyn
00:38:16 Joseph Muir: PREACH, Eric!!!!!!
00:38:37 Erick Chastain: it is a canticle
00:39:02 Lilly Crystal: @Eric Me and my chotcki😂 #sorry lol
00:42:37 Nicole’s iPhone: Great idea! I’m good at editing :)
00:44:24 Nicole’s iPhone: Lilly, I have a priest friend in Marmora and churches are closed, no sacraments at all there
He’s on a farm and last year would put the monstrance in the window for people to come visit Our Lord
00:48:00 renwitter: @deacon Miron is practicing rocking for when Baby comes :-)
00:48:54 Miron: practice makes perfect! only five more days till due date! :)
00:49:07 renwitter: Wow! Five days?!? Amazing!
00:49:50 carolnypaver: Awwww——Happy delivery! God bless Mom, baby, and you, Deacon!
00:50:50 Eric Williams: I like the phrases "spiritual exercises" and "training", because we intuitively understand how necessary training and exercise are for physical health and pursuit of excellence. Sometimes - perhaps often - we must force ourselves to do it. Likewise for spiritual health.
00:51:37 Lilly Crystal: Praying for health and safe delivery @Miron
00:53:37 Miron: Thank you Thank you!!!
00:59:00 Deacon Robert Cripps: Praying for a safe and healthy delivery!
01:05:23 renwitter: All that time in Adoration has @Father David burnin’ up
01:06:15 Lilly Crystal: @ren lol
01:14:27 Nicole’s iPhone: Thank you!
01:14:38 Lilly Crystal: Gracias Padre
There are times that it becomes perfectly clear that one is being fed on solid food. Tonight was such a moment. We picked up with Hypothesis Three on “how we should repent”. We heard from St. Isaac the Syrian with whom we are familiar. St. Isaac begins by teaching us that for every illness, whether of the soul or body the appropriate medicine must be applied. Only then will one be cured. We must apply the appropriate remedy to the passion that afflicts us the most.
St. Isaac gives us two examples this evening of men pierced to the heart with contrition. Both impose upon themselves penances that seem disturbingly severe to modern sensibilities. But it is precisely here that we must suspend judgment and allow ourselves to consider the deeper action at work in the hearts of these men. We must ask the question: Could they ever know the joy of the hand of mercy reaching out to them and lifting them up out of their sin and offering them forgiveness if they first did not experience the depth of sorrow for their sin against love? Having been so cut off from the spiritual tradition and developing such a truncated view of the human person that is often either overly intellectual or psychological, we tend not grasp the wound of sin and the effect that it has upon our relationship with God. We do not see what we have become in Christ; that we are God-bearers and that we have been imbued with His own Spirit that searches the depths of our souls. We have become so isolated from one another that we no longer see the radical solidarity that exists between ourselves and each other in our sin. How can we know anything about either the depth of compunction that arises from a heart that mourns the loss of love and will do anything to regain it or of the beauty and tenderness of the mercy of God that reaches out to touch us and raise us up?
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Text of chat during the group:
00:22:16 Tyler Woloshyn: This reminds me in many way of the many saints of the east who bore the title, "Fools for Christ" who took on those self-imposed penance to maximize their humility as a witness to those who are indifferent otherwise to the gospel.
00:23:12 carolnypaver: Why does he say “the rule” put him in chains?
00:24:42 Joseph Muir: What page are we on?😀
00:24:58 carolnypaver: 31
00:25:02 Tyler Woloshyn: 30
00:25:04 Tyler Woloshyn: 31
00:25:05 Joseph Muir: Much thanks!
00:30:10 Tyler Woloshyn: When I think of red hot piercing contrition it reminds me of The Great Canon of Saint Andrew of Crete during Great Lent. Prayerful and very catechetical.
00:53:43 renwitter: Most. Beautiful. Story. Yet. *heart*
01:03:08 Lilly Crystal: Amen!
01:14:34 Lilly Crystal: Yes! It’s so sad here in Toronto!
The simplicity and the clarity of St. Theophan‘s thought often keeps us perhaps from seeing the holy genius and the beauty that is expressed in these letters. This was particularly evident tonight as we concluded letter 49 and began letter 50. St. Theophan begins by talking to Anastasia about a particular infirmity that we all struggle with as human beings - worry. Anxiety is a disease that is rooted in our separation from God. We experience within our very depths a kind of disintegration; sometimes a very specific form of anxiety and sometimes a very diffuse kind of uneasiness about life, love, and work. Theophan’s simple advice is that she should not to let it take root in her heart. She must engage in her work with enthusiasm and clarity and her focus must be upon God and remembrance of him.
In letter 50 he returns to this very subject with Anastasia. The remembrance of God is necessary. Indeed, it is to be the labor of our life. If we do not achieve it we will come to nothing. We will have no success in the spiritual life and in fact we will have no spiritual life at all. The remembrance of God is the very essence of the spiritual life. It is vitally important! In this sense he tells her that the remembrance of God cannot even be treated as ordinary thought. Every concept of God, every attribute of God, everything that he has revealed of himself to us, all of his redemptive work is to be caught up in and permeate our remembrance of him. It is this that energizes the heart and the spirit. Furthermore she must remember the mercies of God and thank Him for them. All the good things that God has given her - her family, her piety, her recent conversion and desire for God - all of these things she must hold in her mind. Above all she must remember all of the secret mercies the God has shown her, all the many ways that he has protected her in unseen and hidden ways.
Love ignites love he tells her. She must hold to her heart the knowledge of God‘s love for her at every single moment. This must be the source of her resolve. Soon the flame of that love will burn so hotly that she will not have to labor to pray or to remember God - her heart will take her there with the urgent longings.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:34:16 Lilly Crystal: I am totally anxious if I don't have a daily prayer routine! “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”
Mark 2:17
00:37:57 Eric Ash: The psalms weren't written by someone who was a stranger to anxiety and feelings of hopelessness.
00:42:29 Lilly Crystal: “Cast all your anxiety on Him because He cares for you”
Peter 5:7
00:45:47 Eric Williams: Scientist solidarity, Erick. Balancing intellect and faith is very challenging.
00:46:04 Erick Chastain: yeah for sure
00:47:37 Eric Ash: Must be an Eric/k thing
00:48:29 Eric Williams: Yeah, we're a bunch of troublemakers. ;)
00:48:52 Erick Chastain: LOL
01:03:25 Eric Williams: Already sent it to my oldest godchild. :)
01:10:59 Art: No mind
01:24:35 Lilly Crystal: Thank you Father. God bless
01:24:38 Nicole’s iPhone: Thank you!
01:26:51 Lilly Crystal: I would come all the way from Canada 🙂
01:26:56 Nicole’s iPhone: Love the idea of conferences!
01:28:26 Lilly Crystal: 'philokalia familia' 😂
01:30:53 Erick Chastain: Dr jean-claude larchet "Therapy of Spiritual Illnesses"
01:31:08 Wayne Mackenzie: thanks
This evening we concluded the Hypothesis II of the Evergetinos. The focus is on the remembrance of death. Our mortality is a very powerful lens through which to view our life, our actions and most importantly our relationship with God. God and His love alone endures and it is to this love alone that we must cling. If we sin and turn away from that love then repentance must be our constant companion. In fact, we are told that even our virtue can lead us into sin without repentance. We can begin to imagine that such a virtue has its origin in our asceticism. Such a view of life will not lead us to love God above all things and so hate sin. It is not enough simply for us to avoid certain behaviors we must develop an aversion to anything that is not God and that does not lead to Him.
In Hypothesis II, the Fathers begin to speak to us about how we should repent. We should grieve in measure with the wrong which we have committed. Otherwise, we will usually fall again into the same net. There is a kind of guile that exist in the human heart when there is an expectation of being able to repent later after having committed a sin a second time.
Finally, discussion ensued about how we are to understand sin. We must be very careful in the distinctions that we make and by which we judge our lives and our behavior. It must not be simply in accord with our own reason and intellect but rather in accord with a standard that has been revealed to us that this judgment is made - the cross of Christ and the self-emptying love that we witnessed there.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:24:42 renwitter: Hi Eric’s baby! (The wave just killed me)
00:25:48 Eric Williams: His name is Peter Damian. :)
00:31:02 Joseph Muir: Hello, Godson Peter😀❤
00:59:55 Lilly Crystal: You're fine Erick! I'm just as confused lol
01:02:26 Tyler Woloshyn: That whole part of self-emptying brings the term kenosis to mind, where it is always at work with Christ always pouring out His love and graces to us.
01:04:52 renwitter: Maybe the first Eastern Canadian voice ;-) You are not forgotten Wayne :-)
01:07:08 Wayne Mackenzie: Thanks
01:08:43 renwitter: The form the Fathers of the Oratory use is: “God, the Father of mercies,
through the death and resurrection of his Son
has reconciled the world to himself
and sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of sins;
through the ministry of the Church may God give you pardon and peace,
and I absolve you from your sins
in the name of the Father, + and of the Son,
and of the Holy Spirit.”
01:09:11 Joseph Muir: ❤
01:14:05 Lilly Crystal: Amen! Thank you all so much❤️
01:15:09 carolnypaver: God bless you, Lilly! So glad you’re here!
01:17:39 Tyler Woloshyn: God bless you Father! Have a blessed evening everyone!
Tonight we began letter 49 on facing the burdens and responsibilities of life. These realities, St. Theophan tells Anastasia, are not to be seen as obstacles to a holy life or doing God’s will. In fact, it is by God’s providence that we are presented with the work and station in life that we have embraced. It is the disposition of the mind and heart that is most important. The meanest and smallest of tasks of life or the most demanding of duties must be done as if received from God’s hand and with the constant remembrance of Him. We cannot allow what we do become abstracted from that relationship as if it could exists independently from God and outside of the action of His grace. God is everywhere and in every occupation. It is He that we should be looking for in ever set of circumstances and we must receive every person as if we were receiving Him. Worldly standards must not direct our actions. Rather we must put on the mind of Christ in order that we might approach all things with a selfless love and absolute desire to do the Father’s will. Any occupation that makes that impossible or threatens it in some fashion should be avoided.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:16:29 carolnypaver: Different translation from the one we did before?
00:16:38 renwitter: Yes
00:17:11 carolnypaver: Will you let us know when we can pick up?
00:17:26 renwitter: Yep! Absolutely
00:17:53 carolnypaver: Awesome!
00:42:31 Miron: “Be careful that when you say ‘I’m too busy’ that you don’t really mean that ‘I don’t believe in the possibility of my own transformation’ (in Christ)” Archimandrite Maximos
00:54:13 Eric Williams: “Life is what happens to you while you’re busy making other plans.”
00:55:21 Erick Chastain: I think the mic should work now if there's time
01:06:16 renwitter: The beautiful thing about accepting our work as something given to us by the Lord, and done for his sake, is that that reality is not dependent on the nature of the work, right? The Politician’s job is as much God-given as that of the Father in the home.
01:15:20 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: It is also liberating to realize that the Lord is the one who will appreciate, thank or reward us; and this, in a way that ia always perfectly sinless and just.
01:15:53 Eric Williams: I found the proper attribution for what I said earlier. Greek lyric poet Archilocus (c. 680–645 BC) wrote, “We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training.” It seems to have gained modern attention after being partially misquoted by a Navy SEAL.
01:28:47 renwitter: Down with cell phones!! (But seriously, can texting be obliterated from the face of the earth. Those little dings. . . . its like audio water torture)
01:29:18 Daniel Allen: agreed haha
01:29:22 Joseph Muir: Turn off the sound-effects😂
01:32:02 Daniel Allen: what’s the next book?
Tonight we concluded Hypothesis I with a story of a bishop who fell into grave sin and scandal. Broken in spirit, he embraces a life of repentance in a monastery, while also seeking to hide his the dignity of his office. However, God reveals to the Abbot of the monastery that the bishop is coming to him. The abbot recognizes him and tells him that he will follow him wherever he goes to reveal that he is a bishop. The abbot does this not with a morbid delight but rather that the bishop might be fully healed. The very scandal of having fallen from such a lofty position as bishop into grave sin must not be something that he hides. The fullness of healing can only take place when the fullness of the sin is exposed. He who humbles himself will be exalted. Humbling himself completely, the bishop will not regain the dignity of his office but rather regain something greater - his dignity as a son of God. Again, we see that such repentance is not embraced in isolation from others. The fruit of the bishop’s repentance and its perfection is passed on to others after he dies. Many miracles surrounded his death demonstrating to all the genuineness and the sincerity of us repentance.
Turning then to Hypothesis II, we began considering the importance of keeping before our minds the reality of death. We must do good here and now and not delay until the future. This is not meant to instill fear in the hearts of men but rather to liberate them from the illusion that our life in this world is endless or that we are guaranteed a tomorrow. Grace is to be embraced in the moment. God is to be embraced in the moment. To do so is to experience freedom from the fear and anxiety that so often holds the human heart and in its grip.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:11:53 Tyler JVW: Holy Transfiguration Monastery has a wonderful Psalter
00:39:02 Eric Williams: I never felt invincible. I was a very odd child. ;)
00:40:14 Joseph Muir: You’re a very odd adult, Eric😉😂
00:42:27 Lilly Vasconcelos: Be nice to Eric, Mr. Muir😂
00:43:40 Lilly Vasconcelos: Yes I feel the same Father🙂
00:45:52 Lilly Vasconcelos: Humans were not made for long periods of solitude, there is so many negative pschological effects if one doesn't have God as the centre of their lives
00:48:52 Tyler JVW: The definite spiritual high after any retreat or catechetical talk in some experiences.
00:52:59 Lilly Vasconcelos: Praying the Divine Office throughout the day helps me feel like Jesus shares my day with me, so that at night it's kinda exciting if we might depart to him❤️ I don't know if that helps, Ren💕
00:55:55 Tyler JVW: The whole Passion Week Troparia, "Behold the Bridegroom comes in the middle of the night" comes to mind.
00:57:57 Eric Williams: Sort of like showing up for the heavenly banquet without the proper garment?
00:58:00 renwitter: Don’t forget your unblemished white wedding garment bathing suit ;-)
00:58:06 renwitter: Ha! Eric get there before me
01:00:28 Joseph Muir: Behold, the Bridegroom is coming in the middle of the night. Blessed is the servant that He shall find awake. But, the one that He shall find neglectful will not be worthy of Him. Beware, therefore, O my soul! Do not fall into a deep slumber, lest you be delivered to death, and the door of the Kingdom be closed on you. Watch, instead, and cry out: Holy, holy, Holy are You, O our God! Through the Theotokos, have mercy on us!
—from bridegroom matins during Holy Week in the Byzantine churches, both Catholic and Orthodox; and also in the mesonyktikon, the liturgical midnight hour
01:01:20 Joseph Muir: Or they get a passing grade, but only after needlessly inducing a panic attack🤣
01:03:31 Lisa Weidner: In response to Ren’s comment on what to do
01:03:36 Joseph Muir: At the risk of spamming these comments, I once broke up with a girl after she told me that she was a diehard fan of the Saw movie franchise
01:03:37 Lilly Vasconcelos: Theotokion from Orthros:
You are truly most blessed, O Virgin Mother of God: through the One who was incarnated of You, Hades was chained, Adam revived, the curse wiped out, Eve set free, Death put to death, and we ourselves were brought back to life...
01:03:50 Tyler JVW: It also reminds me of the Byzantine Prayer before bed time: O Eternal God, King of every creature, Who hast enabled me to attain to this hour, forgive me the sins which I have committed this day by thought, word and deed. Cleanse my humble soul, O Lord, from every defilement of flesh and spirit. Grant me, O Lord, to pass through the sleep of this night in peace, that I may rise from my humble bed and please Thy most Holy Name all the days of my life, vanquishing the enemies both fleshly and bodiless that contend against me. Deliver me from vain thoughts that defile me, O Lord, and from evil desires. For Thine is the Kingdom, and the power, and the glory: of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, now and ever and unto ages of ages. Amen.
01:05:39 Lisa Weidner: prior to going to bed, Sister Theresa Althea Noble speaks of a practice of Memento More- remembering one’s death as part of one’s examination conscience prior to bed- with the gratitude of the day that Fr David mentioned with a review of the day in reference to our judgement with God- how the day would be reflected in that judgement- so living with an awareness of one’s death/ judgement prior to God.
01:08:43 Tyler JVW: Prayer before retiring before bed by St, John of Damascus: Upon retiring, say this prayer: O Master, Lover of mankind, is this bed to be my coffin, or wilt Thou enlighten my wretched soul with another day? Behold, the coffin lieth before me; behold, death confronteth me. I fear, O Lord, Thy judgment and the endless torments, yet I cease not to do evil. My Lord God, I continually anger Thee, and Thy most pure Mother, and all the Heavenly Hosts, and my Holy Guardian Angel. I know, O Lord, that I am unworthy of Thy love for mankind, but am worthy of every condemnation and torment. But, O Lord, whether I will it or not, save me. For to save a righteous man is no great thing, and to have mercy on the pure is nothing wonderful, for they are worthy of Thy mercy. But on me a sinner, show the wonder of Thy mercy; in this reveal Thy love for mankind, lest my wickedness prevail over Thine ineffable goodness and merciful kindness; and order my life as Thou wilt.
01:10:21 Lilly Vasconcelos: Thanks Father! God bless and good night
01:11:21 Nicole: THANK YOU!!
Tonight we picked up with Letter 48. St. Theophan begins to instruct Anastasia about how to attain Undistracted Prayer. One of the most difficult labors in the spiritual life is to settle one’s thoughts. As we seek to take every thought captive and make it obedient to Christ we are confronted with the multiplicity of our thoughts and their unruliness. Theophan tells Anastasia that she must have firm resolve and hold on to her anxiety about this and intensify her efforts in correcting the fault of allowing her mind to wander. To pacify one’s thoughts is a gift of God but nonetheless we must labor with our whole being. We must force ourselves in every good thing but especially in prayer. Theophan is very stark in his language. He does not hesitate to tell Anastasia that prayer is the most important thing in our life as human beings. In fact our whole being must become Prayer; we must be directed toward God in all that we do say and especially in how we pray. Therefore we cannot enter into prayer as a by-the-way activity or in a haphazard fashion. To do so, Theophan tells Anastasia, is a criminal offense. This language seems harsh but what he’s trying to communicate to her is that prayer is fundamentally an act of justice toward God, giving Him what is His do. We have been created for Him and to share in the fullness of eternal life. There is nothing more important in this world than to live for God.
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Text of chat during the group
00:37:24 Eric Williams: Sometimes maintaining a prayer rule feels more like a sysyphean task than herculean. ;)
00:39:28 Sheila Applegate: Add Cerbwrys
00:39:35 Sheila Applegate: Adce
00:39:57 Sheila Applegate: Cereberus spitting fire from the base.
00:40:24 Sheila Applegate: My phone is glitchy, sorry.
00:42:15 Miron: metropolitan
00:47:38 Mark Cummings: It is my dream to live next door to church
00:48:10 Eric Williams: Often it’s not just a matter of how close a church is, but more whether/when it’s open for prayer. :(
00:49:11 Wayne Mackenzie: There was a time when the churches were open all day
00:50:56 Mark Cummings: Not long ago I could go to adoration any time 24/7
00:51:02 Mark Cummings: pre-covid
00:51:15 Mark Cummings: I miss that
00:51:41 Wayne Mackenzie: I am talking about the 60s
00:52:26 Mark Cummings: lol- it is not often that I get to say that was before my time
00:53:07 Wayne Mackenzie: yes I am giving my age away
00:58:15 Eric Williams: “Grasp” is an interesting choice of word. The origin of the modern “comprehend”, meaning “understand”, is from Latin for “grasp”. It’s as though we wrap our minds around an idea, enveloping and seizing it. It’s very material, “earthy”.
01:13:45 Eric Williams: Isn’t hyperbole a prominent part of ancient rabbinic teaching styles?
01:28:06 Nicole: Thank you!
01:28:12 Scott: What if we end with the Sienfeld bass instead? More positive!
01:28:59 Eric Williams: Instead of the Law and Order “bong”, just say “Pray, criminal!” for an appropriate level of jarring. ;)
We picked up this evening with Hypothesis I which we have been considering over the past month or so. Again the theme is repentance and the avoidance of despair. We have been presented with stories from the Gerontikon which is a collection of the saying of the elders. The focus of the first story we considered tonight was a monk who fell in love with an Egyptian woman. Her father went to a pagan priest and was instructed by a demon through that priest to tell the monk that if he denied God, denied his holy baptism, and rejected his monastic vows then he could marry his daughter. Yet despite doing all of these things, God did not abandon him. The demon acting through the pagan priest understood this and so told the father to refuse the monk’s request to give his daughter in marriage. At that moment, the monk came to the realization of what he had done and repented with deep sorrow. Turning back to his elder, he was instructed to engage rigorously in a fast for weeks and to ask God for his mercy. Eventually the monk was given a vision of a dove entering into his mouth. At this the elder understood that God had received the monk’s penance and restored him to the life of grace. This tells us something very important about the nature of repentance and far reaching it must be. Our penance cannot be something that has no meaning or value but must be a remedy that heals the wound hat led to the fall in the fall in the first place. We must also seek out the guidance of an elder, like this young monk, who not only can instruct us but also intercede on our behalf before God.
Following this, an elder teaches us that when a person is experienced in asceticism and has built his life on the very things to draw him closer to God, falls from grace, he can return more quickly along the path to holiness because even though his house, as it were, may have been demolished he still has readily available all the materials from which constructed it. A person newly initiated into the spiritual life, however, will not only have to build the house but search for the materials. Both suffered the demolition and distraction brought about by their sin, but the one whose life had long been directed toward God can return with a greater swiftness.
Discussion then ensued about how we understand affliction in light of all the things that we have been talking about in regards to repentance. How does one not fall into despair when afflicted again and again? It is only when our knowledge of God is no carried tale and no abstract notion but rather the fruit of a relationship of love that we are able to see through the tears in the darkness and find our way into the embrace of the loving God. This is what we must seek to possess ourselves and to which we must guide others.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:37:59 Tyler Woloshyn: This reminds me of St. Mary of Egypt's retreat into the wilderness to overcome the passions that surrounded her, yet in that long suffering she overcame it with the greatest ascetism and prayer.
00:38:13 Lilly Vasconcelos: Sin is sin. I dislike the idea of venial vs mortal, just my opinion. We should strive for holiness :)
00:39:33 Tyler Woloshyn: Very Byzantine focus there Lilly. Categorizations can sometimes complicate the examination of conscience.
00:45:36 Tyler Woloshyn: St. Pachomius of Egypt?
00:46:25 Erick Chastain: Modern-day Egypt, back then it was Thebes
00:47:47 Wayne Mackenzie: It's the rule of Pachomis
00:49:51 Tyler Woloshyn: The Prayer of St. Pachomius at least for the Jesus Prayer sure sets a wonderful template for building a crescendo for praying the Jesus Prayer.
00:50:12 Wayne Mackenzie: yes
00:50:50 Eric Williams: Rule of St. Pachomius: http://www.saintjonah.org/services/stpachomius.htm
00:51:04 Joseph Muir: Thank you, Eric!
00:56:56 carolediclaudio: I’m late- what page are we on? :)
00:58:18 carolnypaver: 25
00:58:26 Wayne Mackenzie: p 25
00:58:28 Tyler Woloshyn: Acedia, which Evagarios of Pontus talks about those 8 passions. Despair being grave.
00:58:28 carolnypaver: bottom
00:58:39 carolediclaudio: Thank you!
01:09:45 Lilly Vasconcelos: Thank you Father David :)
01:10:20 Tyler Woloshyn: Christ is Risen! Thank you for the wonderful explanations and being very welcoming Fr. David.
01:10:24 carolediclaudio: Yes, very beautiful. So sorry was late.
01:11:38 Lilly Vasconcelos: I brought 2 more Canadians
01:11:43 Lilly Vasconcelos: Hahaha
01:11:49 Katharine M: :D
01:11:59 carolediclaudio: Good :)
01:13:45 Sue and Mark: YES!!!!!!
01:13:58 Erick Chastain: That would be great!
01:14:16 Eric Williams: Maybe “The Way of a Pilgrim”?
01:14:17 Daniel Allen: perfect i won’t have to buy another copy
Tonight we came to the conclusion of Letter 47 on developing a prayer rule. St. Theophan begins by warning Anastasia that she must be even more diligent and concentrated in the evening. It is then that we often become sluggish and inattentive as we become more and more fatigued or after we have had the evening meal. It is at times like this that we can be subject to particular temptations. Therefore, Theophan tells Anastasia that she should increase her prostrations and petitions to God and that she should even seek to fall asleep with the Jesus prayer on her lips or reciting some psalm.
Along these lines Theophan encourages her to memorize a certain number of the psalms; in particular those that speak to her heart. She should allow herself to read through the Psalter and then select those that mean the most to her. And this way she will be fully armed for the spiritual battle. Most important of all, however, is that Anastasia sees herself standing before God with her “mind in the heart with devotion and heartfelt prostration to him.” All of his other suggestions are mere aids in the practice. What is going on in the heart is most important.
He then tells her that in her prayer rule she should set a distinct number of short prayers that she says as well as a set number of prostrations that are done. This will keep her from falling into laziness and help her to stretch herself in the development of her prayer. She should not speed through these and if she does she should add additional prostrations to her practice. Thus, she must have a certain spiritual maturity; not trying to cheat God.
As a brief conclusion Theophan tells her that he is sending her a prayer rope that he wants her to use. This is not a monastic thing, he emphasizes. In fact, Theophan received and heard about the prayer rope from a lay person. It is simply an aid to allow one’s love and devotion to be directed to God; one that adds a bodily element to that effort. For this reason it is invaluable.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:28:58 Eric Ash: I'm reminded of a study that showed artist renditions of the last supper have been showing an increased portion size over the centuries as society's view of what a modest portion is has grown.
00:37:14 Scott: https://www.amazon.com/Psalms-New-Translation-Singing-Version/dp/0809116693/ref=sr_1_5
This Psalter is the same translation as the breviary commonly used in the US, which is a pleasant translation.
01:00:50 renwitter: Hey folks! Sorry this is off topic, but since you are here :-) If you are not already, but would like to be on the mailing list for Philokalia Ministries, please fill out this form! Thank you! https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fapp.etapestry.com%2Fonlineforms%2FThePittsburghOratory%2Fphilokaliacontact.html%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR0_S8CqCO7SYILbW8mLPQfACza8728Y7UDGDMFZopqoZ-ytgi0GumyQoRA&h=AT0XPibbprPPvay0ZxKcKhkPmFtot0lrrjJjmurma0VgE9HNjqGO9WQ5tD-pVT2rRAEZiQF-1Nvf03RY3uXkfVIIFbB8OlI_WFtjktNqJ_-zQFRX6DyT8QLToXEV9qquNMQfnG7e6w&__tn__=-UK-R&c[0]=AT3qqUcjHbbsDV6cRbNPgatZ405PY07aOV1kg-XwstnyFNKsYKofNczkMTzIAH5VjlLdTDbZHPu75Rani-bux_zi0Nm6eOSUhEw5e1CmF1nQFyuHskX2YVkRjsdulqrZ5WtJ4N8b1s4F-oVpMEWATX-FSxCWDmVvjvPHjtqECCOCA1bsALdKdM-yeDfeJJq1du-jI4Ne
We continued with our reading of Hypothesis I on “repentance in the avoidance of despair.” After giving us a foundation of many stories of God‘s infinite and boundless mercy, the focus of attention this evening is on the human response to this mercy. Repentance is not a static reality. Rather, it is a source of protection, a cloak that one wears. We are not meant to simply remain in the sadness of having committed sins, but rather we are to rise and engage in the spiritual warfare that God’s mercy and grace gives us the strength to enter. We are to be combatants. Our weapons are not worldly nor are they rooted in ourselves but rather arise first from the grace of God and manifest themselves in our hearts as humility, obedience, self-sacrificing love, contrition. We are also shown that the impact of repentance is not limited to one person. Repentance when it is deep and true brings about miracles not only in one’s own life but in the lives of those around us. God’s grace and mercy overflows in response to the abundance of tears that an individual sheds on behalf of his sins and the sins of the world. The presence of penitents in the Church strengthens it and gives others who have fallen into sin hope of salvation and conversion of life.
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Text of chat during the group
00:31:48 Eric Williams: PEWSLAG
00:56:07 Eric Williams: The ass saved the ass from himself!
00:58:25 Eric Williams: “Finally, draw your strength from the Lord and from his mighty power. Put on the armor of God so that you may be able to stand firm against the tactics of the devil. For our struggle is not with flesh and blood but with the principalities, with the powers, with the world rulers of this present darkness, with the evil spirits in the heavens. Therefore, put on the armor of God, that you may be able to resist on the evil day and, having done everything, to hold your ground. So stand fast with your loins girded in truth, clothed with righteousness as a breastplate, and your feet shod in readiness for the gospel of peace. In all circumstances, hold faith as a shield, to quench all [the] flaming arrows of the evil one. And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.” - Ephesians 6:10-17
01:03:47 The Pittsburgh Oratory: Erick we lost you.
01:16:38 Eric Williams: “Say: woe is me, alas, O soul, and weep; for thou hast been left and orphan so young by the blameless fathers and righteous ascetics. Where are our fathers? Where are the saints? Where are the vigilant? Where are the sober? Where are the humble? Where are the meek? Where are those who vow silence? Where are the abstinent? Where are those who with a contrite heart stood before the Lord in perfect prayer, like angels of God? They have left here to join our holy God with their lamps brightly burning. Woe is us! What times are these in which we live? Into what sea of evil have we sailed? Our fathers have entered the harbor of life, that they might not see the sorrows and seductions that overcome us because of our sins. They are crowned, yet we slumber; we sleep and indulge in selfish pleasures.” - St Ephraim the Syrian
Tonight we picked up with Letter 46 to Anastasia including general rules about staying on the spiritual path. St. Theophan’s guidance is very sensible. He begins by encouraging her to pray, read and meditate in order to engage her mind, body and memory in every aspect of her prayer. He does not want it simply to be a discipline for her but rather a relationship. She must labor with all of her strength trusting in God and that He will provide things in His own time and in accord with His Providence.
In Letter 47 St. Theophan begins to lay out for her the foundations of a prayer rule. He begins by telling her that this has been the practice of great practitioners of prayer from the beginning. It helps us to avoid laziness but it also helps us to restrain our enthusiasm so that it is always measured. She must not be overly concerned about the number of prayers she is doing but rather the manner in which she is engaging God. One of the great pieces of advice that he offers her goes back to the earliest of the Fathers. He wants her to begin to memorize her prayers and not always be reading from a book. He wants her to have access from her own heart the longings and desires expressed in the prayers that she has memorized. In particular, he encourages her to memorize the Psalms that speak to her soul in a particular way. We will pick up there next time.
Such beauty! Not only were tonight‘s passages from the Evergetinos memorable - one is compelled to memorize them due to their profundity. They speak to us of the sweetness and the joy that comes to us through repentance and that God desires to give to us. At every turn we are encouraged to be confident and not to be duped by the temptations of the Evil One to ruminate on past sins or to doubt for a moment the God desire to forgive.
We are to be fearless in the face of our own sins and the thoughts from which they arise. To acknowledge them openly is to make them powerless and without weight. To bring them before God and the light of His love is to bring ourselves healing and hope. Immediately, like the father in the story of the prodigal son, God desires to robe us with innocence and restore to us the promise of adoption which the Holy Spirit bestows upon us. God desires to make us partakers of eternal life. In fact, repentance is to be seen as a rebirth from holy mother church who will supply us with nourishment and bring us to a mature faith. With tenderness we are embraced by God who draws us to the maternal breast. As Father he does not desire to punish but rather understands our weakness and likewise seeks to carries us and support us until we are capable of understanding the Evil One’s ways and fighting against them fully.
If we know sorrow because of our sin it should always be paired with the joy; the joy that comes from turning toward God and being restored to that relationship. Despair is the great enemy and we should not wait a moment to return to God.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:48:42 Eric Williams: We’re shy about sharing all our thoughts with a wide elder or confessor, but we broadcast them loudly and proudly on social media.
00:49:37 Mary Schott: Lol, true that.
01:05:11 Eric Williams: Just go up to the pulpit and stare ominously in silence. After an uncomfortable period, announce, “Thus ends the lesson” and step down. ;)
01:23:02 D Fraley: Thank you Father.
Tonight we began Letter 46 wherein Saint Theophan gives Anastasia general rules for staying on the true path. He begins by praising her for her great love of the Lord and her zeal in the spiritual life. Yet, he wants to give her a number of rules to help her persevere. The first is to fear doubt and to see it as the primary enemy. The demons will instill in us a false sense of security or a prideful view of our spiritual gains. When we fall into sin they then drag us down into doubt and make us question our commitment. Secondly, Theophan tells her that fear and apprehension will not abandon her. In fact, she must hold onto them because they will make her vigilant in avoiding the snares of the evil one. No matter how proficient she becomes in the spiritual life she must remain ever vigilant. Thirdly, she must always hold on to the fear of death and judgment. This is not meant to lead Anastasia into anxiety but rather to open her eyes to the brevity of her life and to see that every action and deed is freighted with destiny. It is meant simply to make her take her life seriously. Fourthly, she is to avoid undesirable company. While not distancing herself completely from the world she must understand that as human beings we are in a constant state of receptivity. Because of our sin we must then guard our hearts and be discerning about what we receive into them. Finally, Theophan tells Anastasia not to avoid people or become gloomy. In her spiritual struggles she must not make herself an oddity in the eyes of others nor should she put on a gloomy appearance which betrays a lack of hope and trust in the grace of God. She must rather practice the asceticism of joy and always bear witness to her hope in Christ.
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Text of chat during group
00:18:05 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: In case anyone needs it, to understand St Theophan better, my brother wrote a three page summary: A Brief Primer on Patristic Greek Anthropology with an Emphasis on the Process of Contemplation and Obstacles to It
Very Rev. Andriy Chirovsky, SThD
September, 2003
http://tho3306.sheptytskyinstitute.ca/2013/11/27/a-chirovsky-brief-primer-in-theological-anthropology/
00:36:40 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: Great Vespers in UGCC http://archeparchy.ca/wcm-docs/docs/order_of_great_vespers_pdf.pdf
Daily Vespers
http://archeparchy.ca/wcm-docs/docs/order_of_dailyt_vespers_pdf.pdf
Propers for Saturday and Feastday evenings https://lit.royaldoors.net/
I also email texts for Matins and Divine Liturgy to anyone who ask for it.
00:59:42 Eric Williams: “Acquire a peaceful spirit and then thousands of others around you will be saved.” - St. Seraphim of Sarov
01:04:56 Eric Williams: It seems to me that data are plentiful, actual information is uncommmon, edifying information that increases knowledge is rare, and finding knowledge that leads to wisdom is like being struck by lightning or winning the lottery.
01:05:42 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: Amen, Eric.
01:16:01 Eric Williams: I was thinking that, Father, so I’m glad you said it! ;)
01:23:02 Mark Cummings: Thank you!
Another beautiful group tonight! We picked up with Hypothesis I, page 13. Again we are given multiple stories of individuals repenting from sin and turning back to God from states of depravity. The very movement of the mind and the heart brings down upon them a flood of God’s grace and mercy.
What is different in the stories we read tonight is the radical solidarity and empathy that we see in the minds and the hearts of the elders. They approach those in their charge not as masters but as servants; not condescending to them but rather seeing themselves sharing intimately in the sorrows and the woundedness of their sin. The responsibility was theirs’ to weep over these sins and seek to help others overcome them if possible. There is no such thing as an individual Christian; that is, a Christian separated from the body of Christ and from one another. Our own repentance should help to elevate and lift up the Church and the repentance of others can also help raise us up and strengthen us as well. God‘s desire is to heal us, not to punish us. We have lost this sense of the need for healing and understanding that the Church is a hospital and have instead turned the acknowledgment of one sins into a legalistic practice or rather a psychological and emotional release. Consciences can be so hardened - not only among individuals but among whole groups of people - that we can completely lose our way unless God and his great mercy and Providence does something to up-end the illusion. He will do anything to help us overcome what affects and afflicts us. Blessed be God forever.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:17:02 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: in case anyone needs it my brother wrote A Brief Primer on Patristic Greek Anthropology with an Emphasis on the Process of Contemplation and Obstacles to It Very Rev. Andriy Chirovsky, SThD September, 2003 http://tho3306.sheptytskyinstitute.ca/2013/11/27/a-chirovsky-brief-primer-in-theological-anthropology/
00:17:36 carolnypaver: Thank you, Fr. Ivan!
00:18:11 Wayne Mackenzie: I have a copy of this. A good read.
00:51:30 Katharine M: Sorry I forgot to raise my hand, :)
01:07:00 Eric Williams: “Each generation is converted by the saint who contradicts it most.” - GK Chesterton
01:08:53 Lilly Vasconcelos: Russia is definitely spreading Her errors across the world, as Our Blessed Theotokos warned us in Fatima, Portugal
It is often a few paragraphs that turn into a beautiful blessing; suddenly one’s vision is cleared and our understanding of the spiritual life opens up. This is exactly what St. Theophan does for Anastasia in letter 45. He speaks to her once again about not allowing her thoughts to wander. In fact he speaks very sternly with her here not out of anger but rather as a matter of emphasis. This is at the very heart of the spiritual life - the remembrance of God. And so, he offers her a number of conditions for success. 1). uninterrupted continuity and persistence. Anastasia must not let off of the prayer rule that he will provide her or in this exercise of taking her thoughts captive. 2). To practice patience and self-discipline. Anastasia will inevitably experience doubt and a weakening of her desire and will. All of these she must drive away and continue in her labors. 3). To be inspired with hope in the Lord. When God sees her labor and her commitment he will add grace to grace until she begins to experience the fruitfulness of her labors. One of these fruits is calmness of heart. The more one lives within the depths, even when the waters on the surface are choppy and life seems chaotic, one can still experience the peace of the kingdom.
Theophan‘s final reminder to Anastasia is that this work of the spirit within her is what she set out to embrace. If she follows it faithfully, she will become a real person; a daughter of God created in His image and likeness and living in constant communion with Him.
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00:27:30 Eric Williams: *idle* curiosity
00:28:18 Eric Williams: clickbait!
00:43:38 Eric Williams: We got distracted and our thoughts wandered. ;) *rimshot*
00:47:41 Eric Williams: Getting up at 3 AM to pray was even harder than the silence!
01:00:26 renwitter: I am quitting tomorrow!!!
01:00:41 Erick Chastain: lol yeah me too
01:02:47 renwitter: Yay!! No work, no work. You guys want to form a commune? Saint Theophan’s Skete?
01:10:01 carolnypaver: My husband has a computer-intensive job. He sets an alarm on his computer to go off every hour to redirect/consecrate his work to God.
Tonight we continued our study of Hypothesis I on repentance and the avoidance of despair. Again, we are presented with a number of stories that emphasize the importance of the simple movement of the mind and heart toward God through acknowledging one’s sin. This immediately brings down upon the individual the mercy and the grace of God - no matter when or where it takes place. God who sees the mind and the heart knows the person’s motivation and the depth of the repentance.
One of the things we are warned about is the kind of sorrow that the demons often will place within the human heart to cast us into despair and make us call into question the mercy of God. Again and again the demons put forward the doubt that one has lived too long in sin in order to receive the mercy of God, that they belong to the demons and hell due to the amount of time they spent in their sin. Yet, repeatedly we hear the angels say that God is the true master of heaven and earth and in his omniscience sees to the depths of a person’s soul. He alone has the right and the capacity to judge.
We may find ourselves particularly challenged by the fathers’ emphasis upon how our conscience should immediately cease to be troubled the moment that we acknowledge and confess our sins to God. So often it is fear and doubt that allows our sin to cling to us; that it gradually undermines the unconditional love and mercy that God wants to fill us with in order that we might engage others with that same perfect love. It is often one of the great stumbling blocks for us even as men and women of faith to enter into this profound mystery, to let ourselves to be guided by the grace of God to imagine the unimaginable – that His love could so transform us and so free us from the shackles of sin. The darkness that sin brings to the mind and the heart often clouds our vision just enough to throw that all into doubt; making us want to qualify it in one way or another. All the “reasonable” objections immediately come to our hearts and minds and we stumble. The mercy that we are given is meant to free us in every way, from our sin and from every limitation on our capacity to love and give ourselves in love.
St. Theophan continued to talk with Anastasia about the dangers that arise as one draws to the end of Lent and the beginning of Spring. Both have particular and subtle dangers tied to them. The first is seeing Lent as an end in itself. Rather, Lent is a springboard into greater intimacy with the Lord and commitment to him in the life of prayer. If we see it as a period of endurance for 40 days then we are gradually going to slide back into past behaviors and ways of thought. Similarly springtime brings new life and birth and the excitement of all that is going on around us and stimulating the senses. There is nothing, of course, that is evil about this; but if we do not see it within the context of God who is our creator and who has made all these things, our attention can be directed in a disordered way toward them and away from God and from the spiritual life. That which is good, then, can be used as a temptation to pull us away from our discipline. Theophan warns her about suspicious thoughts that seek to interject themselves into the mind; in particular, the thought “why did I begin“. We will often question ourselves as to why we started along the path that we were on and in the process we question God and the movement of His grace. This Anastasia must fight against and pray that God would preserve her from its effects.
In letter 45, St. Theophan emphasizes for her again the importance of undistracted prayer. It is the barometer of the spiritual life and reveals to her how high or low or spirit has gone in seeking God. He reminds her that in essence prayer is the remembrance of God and the raising of the heart and mind to Him in love. This she already sees and understands and must simply hold onto it as the greatest truth of life.
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00:17:47 Mary McLeod: we’re both here :)
00:31:25 Mark Cummings: Hello- several weeks ago someone referenced a good youtube video of the Jesus Prayer chant. Do you happen to know what the youtube video was?
00:37:26 Sheila Applegate: Well said, Andreea.
00:56:16 Mark Cummings: Doing vs Being, lol
00:56:20 Eric Williams: Telling people I’m a stay-at-home dad has led to a lot of awkward conversations. According to some, I’m perverting God’s created order! To others, a man is somehow worth less if he does not materially provide for his family.
01:02:27 Mark Cummings: Sorry to hear that Eric.
01:18:41 Mark Cummings: Thank you!
We continued our study tonight by reflecting upon the Fathers’ encouragement to reach out to God in the spirit of repentance. More than anything, the examples that are given, the stories that are told, are meant to help us to avoid despair. We have a God who is set upon our salvation. The mere movement of the mind and the heart towards Him with contrition brings with it a flood of mercy and grace. We are meant to be valiant strugglers; taking hold of the grace that God has given us and the mercy and the forgiveness He has bestowed upon us in order that we might come to experience the full freedom of those have been made sons and daughters of God. The Ascetical life is not simply about self- discipline: it is about love and the fullness of life. Christ is the most beautiful person. In Him we see the fullness of God and the depth of His love. It is to this beauty that we are called and it is this beauty that we cultivate through the Ascetical life. It is better for us to struggle with our own poverty and sin and experience it truly than to remain in the fearful enslavement of Egypt; that is, bound to the emptiness of sin.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:23:38 renwitter: Everything he writes is amazing. 100% recommend “Woman and the Salvation of the World.”
00:24:46 Joseph Muir: Is that by the “more contemporary elder” whom Fr David mentioned, Ren?
00:25:10 renwitter: Yep! Evdokimov
00:25:23 Sue mcmillen: was the name?
00:25:41 renwitter: Paul Evdokimov
00:30:48 Joseph Muir: Fr Jeremiah Shyrock, CFR, is his name, if anyone wants to look him up
00:43:05 Anthony Gallagher: my raise hand button is not working :-( trying to raise hand.
00:56:28 Eric Williams: Kids fought over something sharp and the 6yo’s finger got cut badly enough that she’s off to the ER to maybe get stitches (hence my sudden disappearance). What page are we on now?
00:56:54 renwitter: Same one Eric :-D
00:57:09 Eric Williams: 11?!
00:57:16 renwitter: Yepperz
00:57:25 carolnypaver: 11
00:57:49 Michael Liccione: Prayers for your daughter
00:58:30 Eric Williams: Thank you :)
01:14:12 Eric Williams: “All your life you live so close to truth, it becomes a permanent blur in the corner of your eye, and when something nudges it into outline it is like being ambushed by a grotesque.”
― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead
01:15:49 James Ellis: Thank you Father!
Once again St. Theophan expresses a kind of a holy genius as he speaks to Anastasia. We began the evening by discussing his final simple rule to follow in order to progress in the spiritual life. Patience, he tells Anastasia, will help her to endure and see through the trials and tribulations of life. It will allow her to remain steadfast her discipline. She is not always going to see the fruit of her labor and perhaps not for many years. So she must hold on to the wisdom of the fathers and of the Church; trusting that God will make all things work for the good of those who seek Him.
In Letter 44, St. Theophan offers Anastasia three precautions to take so that she might avoid some of the pitfalls involved in walking along the spiritual path. The first is never to think that you’ve already succeeded in doing something. The thought that “I’ve done it!” easily slips into our mind in such a way that we lose our energy in the pursuit of the spiritual life.
Secondly we must not allow ourselves to relax under any condition. By this, he does not mean that we do not allow ourselves time to rest and to be restored physically. What is warning against is that the Evil One can tell us that we’ve been working very hard and that we should ease up on self-constraint and self-observation. When this happens we begin to indulge ourselves indiscriminately. It is like a hole in a dam; it eventually wears away the earth until the water floods through. The evil enemy will speak these words of sweetness to us to give us false encouragement.
And finally, Theophan begins to offer a word a special caution that is tied to the celebration of Easter as well as the coming of spring. As we come to the end of the penitential season and as we see new life emerge in our world and its beauty, we can find ourselves overcome by the senses. Simply put, the new life that emerges in spring time can be enough to arouse all the senses and unless we are vigilant as to what’s going on within we can be led astray even by what is good. The devil often takes the form of an angel of light or uses that which is good in order to distract us - ultimately leading to our fall.
We continued our reading of Hypothesis I of the Evergetinos regarding “Repentance and the Avoidance of Despair.” We are presented with one story after another of someone who finds himself or herself in grave sin; sometimes struggling year after year and yet returning to God with a repentant heart.
Monk Paul, who compiled the text, begins by giving us stories that at first are a reflection upon the nature of repentance itself; from the perspective of those who receive mercy in order to foster confidence in God. But there’s a gradual and extraordinary progression that takes place in the stories themselves. They take us deeper and deeper into the very heart of God who is set upon the salvation of all and who looks for the smallest movement of repentance in the human heart in order to draw a person back to Him.
We tend to look upon ourselves and our own sin and the sins of others through the lens of our own intellect and judgment or our malformed consciences. Ultimately the fathers tell us it is only when we begin to look at the mercy of God in light of the Cross and the precious blood of Christ that was shed on our behalf that we begin to understand. God’s generosity cannot be called into question. Rather, we must humbly allow ourselves to be drawn into the mystery. We must allow God to show us the nature of love and receive it ourselves before we can truly show it to others. May God bless it and make it so!
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Text of chat during group:
00:15:41 Joseph Muir: please pray for my friend Lilly in Toronto, who joined us for the past two meetings. She is dealing with some pretty severe health issue (not Covid-related), and isn’t able to join us tonight, unfortunately
00:16:33 Katharine M: Prayers for Lilly
00:19:01 Eric Williams: I was taught “Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without”
00:57:27 Eric Williams: The penitent who sins every day and repents every day reminds me of St. Mark Ji Tianxiang, who was an opium addict who didn’t receive the Eucharist for the last 30 years of his life and died a martyr.
01:17:08 Erick Chastain: strangely enough it was a favorite feast day of Pope John XXIII who convened the 2nd Vatican council
01:28:25 Sharon: I realize we need to wrap up, but the themes of toleration and boundaries keep coming up within my circle. The devil uses the word “tolerate” instead of “love.” And more and more people are encouraged to create boundaries. I just wonder how we can be truly seeking conversion of heart and unity with God if we are spending our time and energy just tolerating people and building boundaries.
This evening we moved on to letter 43. St. Theophan had been teaching Anastasia about reining in the thoughts; in particular, through the use of the Jesus prayer. We are not simply to allow our thoughts to draw us where they will but rather redirect them toward God. Here Theophan becomes more specific in his teaching and gives Anastasia three rules to follow. However, before this he begins by describing for her the inner movements of the thoughts, the heart, and the desires. Thoughts multiply and they hang within the mind like fog. But more than that - they swarm like mosquitoes. Thus, there is a constant movement among the thoughts. Beneath this is the heart and within the heart the thoughts constantly strike the heart and afflicted it. The passions are stirred and there is no order to be found. Emotions shake the heart like a leaf blowing in the wind. Emotion always engenders desire. And with this comes inner confusion and uncertainty. We can have contradictory desires at the same time. Out of this confusion grows kind of gloom and in the gloom the demons will enter to afflict us and whip up things even more. Anastasia then must recommit herself to work for the Lord and belong to Him alone. She must seek with all of her strength to destroy this inner disorder. The first rule is to engender that unceasing remembrance of God. The constant thought of God decreases the confusion and embracing this habit conscientiously within a few months time will help still things in great measure. The second rule is always to obey the conscience which must be well formed. When obedient to it we will seek the things of God and seek to please Him.
As one would expect much discussion ensued about the spiritual life. Theophan draws Anastasia forward and in doing so he takes us with her and shows us the path into the depths of the heart where God dwells - and where peace alone is found.
What an extraordinary reading! We’ve been considering Hypothesis I about repentance and not falling into despair. Tonight we began with the writing from the life of St. Synkletike. She’s one of the Desert Mothers and considered by many as equal to Saint Anthony the Great. The counsel she offers is psychologically subtle and spiritually beautiful. She encourages us always to support others, especially neophytes, and encourage them in the struggle for the good. No matter how small their virtues deeds might seem we must lift them up and praise them in order to encourage them in the spiritual battle. Likewise, no matter how great a fault may be we must, in front of them, treat it as though it is the least an on worthy of note. The evil one wishes to destroy their efforts and so we must in every way lift them up and encourage them to continue. God‘s compassion and mercy is unlimited and she gives us multiple examples from the Scriptures to remind us: Saint Paul Rahab the prostitute from the Old Testament, and St. Matthew the tax collector. In all of these we see the worth of repentance and the compassion of God towards the repentant man.
Those who struggle with pride God himself will prune so they do not begin to attribute their growth and virtue to themselves. He will humble them in order that they might continue to cling to Him and to His grace.
Next, the holy Palladios recounts for us the story of Saint Moses the Ethiopian. We see in him how the passion of anger unchecked and murderous in its nature and conduct can be transformed by the gift of repentance. After a violent existence, Moses was moved to contrition and the incensive faculty within him redirected the anger towards sin and drove him in the ascetical life to war against the demons. He became so virtuous that he rivaled even those elders of Skete. By the time he died, there were 70 disciples who joined him, many of whom were his fellow former criminals.
All of this is meant to lead us to set aside the judgments of our own reason when it comes to love, compassion, and mercy. We are called to imitate God who, while we were still enemies, had mercy upon us and gave us His only begotten Son.
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00:21:02 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: https://www.oca.org/saints/lives/2017/01/05/100099-venerable-syncletica-of-alexandria
00:22:25 Eric Williams: sin-kle-ti-kee (not sure which syllable gets emphasis; Fr Ivan?)
00:23:00 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: St Nikolai Velimirovich's Prologue of Ohrid: Syncletica was of Macedonian descent. She was educated in Alexandria. As a wealthy and distinguished maiden she had many suitors, but she rejected them all and fled from her parents' home to a convent. In great self-restraint, vigil and prayer, Syncletica lived to her eightieth year. Her counsels to the nuns have always been considered true spiritual pearls, for this righteous one did not attain the heights of wisdom through books but through sufferings, pains, daily and nightly contemplation, and spiritual communication with the higher world of the Divine. Her soul took up its habitation in that higher world in the year 350 A.D. Among other things, St. Syncletica was known to say: "If it is the season for fasting, do not dismiss fasting, claiming illness, for behold, even those who do not fast succumb to the same illness." She further said: "As a treasure, when uncovered, is quickly seized, ….
00:23:03 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: so it is with virtue: when it is made public it becomes eclipsed and is lost."
00:23:55 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: her feast is Jan 5 in the Byzantine calendar
00:26:16 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: The Life and Conduct of the HOLY AND BLESSED TEACHER SYNKLETIKE by St. Athanasios the Great was published in English in 2015.
00:29:29 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: Σύγκλητος means “senate” or “assembly”; hence, the name Συγκλητική denotes what is “senatorial” or “noble”; in this instance, a noble in the “heavenly assembly” of Saints. The accent is on the last syllable in Greek: syn-klee-ti-KEE. In English it is "Syncletica".
00:43:21 Joseph Muir: tax collectors are still hated today😂
00:49:23 Ren Witter: I would stay on video and be social, but I am eating dinner and I’m a slob :-D
00:49:29 Katharine: :D
00:50:01 carolediclaudio: :):)
00:58:51 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: skete or sketis is defined on pg. 425 in glossary
01:09:10 Andres Mason: he is pretty cool
01:09:14 Andres Mason: straightforward
01:14:28 Joseph Muir: I emphatically recommend backpacking, particularly of a long-distance variety😀
01:21:31 Eric Williams: “Therefore it is the paradox of history that each generation is converted by the saint who contradicts it most.” - GK Chesterton
01:21:48 Joseph Muir: ❤
01:24:16 Lilly Vasconcelos: @Joseph When the US/CA border opens, sign me up for hiking retreat with Franciscans 🙏
01:29:57 Lilly Vasconcelos: Bon nuit, merci
01:30:11 Micah Valine: Thank you
Now that Anastasia has gone to confession and received holy communion, St. Theophan begins to guide her along the path of salvation in order that her joy might be complete. He begins by clarifying for her that our hope for life and for love and for salvation is to be found in Christ alone. No earthly power or reality can save us. Her confidence should come from the fact that it is this God who dwells within the very depths of her being. It is He who lifts her up and allows her to say, “Though I should walk in the midst of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil.“
At this point he introduces Anastasia to what is at heart of the spiritual life- prayer. He describes it as the unknown “unceasing remembrance of God.” We are never to allow God to slip out to the margins of our minds and hearts, never allow him to be overshadowed by anxieties and fears. Rather, we are to call upon him and bring Him to mind habitually, until we begin to experience this as God looking at us and we looking at Him. It is the gaze of Divine Love. To this purpose he begins to teach her the Jesus prayer. “Lord Jesus Christ have mercy on me a sinner” or “Lord have mercy.” To cry out these two or three words with devotion and reverence allows us to take hold of the Spirit of Love that groans within us - love that is eternal and beyond words. Therefore, if she has never heard of this then she must listen and if she has never done it, he tells her, she must begin doing it from this moment on. Whether she is walking or working or eating or going to bed these words must be repeated within the mind and the heart. With reverence and love one must be constantly reaching out toward God. This is her genuine service to the Lord - giving Him the love, praise and worship He deserves.
With great joy we began our study of the Evergetinos after years of waiting and preparation. This collection of the writings and the lives of the desert monks has been a rich source of spiritual nourishment for Eastern Christians for centuries - and is meant for all who pursue the life of Orthodoxy - who pursue “right glory”. Providentially, we live in a time when this work has become available to us in English and so accessible as never before. In an age that knows very few spiritual elders it offers great comfort to be able to sit at the feet of those who were icons and remain icons of Christ and the life of the gospel in its fullness. We began with Hypothesis number 1. Our study begins with Repentance, as does the spiritual life. We are presented with the image of a young man who had lived a dissolute life. When he comes to recognize the horror of it in the light of truth, his heart is filled with compunction and he groans from his depths. He leaves the world and begins to live in the tombs where he can embrace the life of repentance unceasingly. As he embraces this movement of grace within him, he is immediately attacked by demons who seek to dissuade him from taking this path. When unable to do so, they physically assault him and encourage his family members to come and to try to take him home. He will not be moved and so the demons eventually acknowledge that they have been conquered and that his repentance and heart are true. We are told that he remains in the tomb and makes it his hermitage for the rest of his life. Repentance is an unending reality for us and the greater our sin the greater our desire for it and protection of it must become. As we enter into the holy season of Lent we are called to imitate this young man by being single-hearted in our purpose. Lent is not simply for 40 days but rather the beginning of greater conversion and abandoning our life to Christ.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:16:41 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: LOL
00:40:30 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: John 17:24 24 Father, I desire that they also, whom thou hast given me, may be with me where I am, to behold my glory which thou hast given me in thy love for me before the foundation of the world. In biblical Greek the meaning of the word "doxa" was "glory". Only quite a few centuries later did the word acquire additional meaning of "doctrine/faith" or "worship". That meaning did not exist when the holy apostle and evangelist John wrote his Gospel.
00:41:43 Eric Williams: Someone created a filter for Facebook, so you can virtually put an ash cross on your profile picture’s forehead. #AshTag2021 *sigh*
00:41:48 Ren Witter: I’m actually anticipating that the lines will be a lot shorter since the ashes will not be visible.
00:42:14 Ren Witter: Why do something if you can’t post about it? ;-)
00:42:19 Joseph Muir: #ashwednesdayselfie🙄 a trend amongst many in the western church that I would love to see fizzle out and die
00:46:05 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: The wages of repentance are mercy and forgiveness unto everlasting life and so Byzantines (on the Gregorian calendar) "distributed" forgiveness upon one another, on the eve of beginning the Great Fast of Lent (yesterday evening).
00:54:20 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: Jesus: "In the world you have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world" (Jn. 16:33). Holy chief apostle Paul: to the Romans: "we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not disappoint us, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us" (Rom. 5: 3-5). Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus the pioneer and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God. (Heb. 12:1-2)
00:55:03 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: "This is the great work of a man: always to take the blame for his own sins before God and to expect temptation to his last breath." … "Whoever has not experienced temptation cannot enter into the Kingdom of heaven," adding the words often quoted in the Christian spiritual tradition, "without temptations no one can be saved.“ (St. Antony the Great in a letter to St. Peomen)
00:55:13 Lilly: Matthew 16:24-26
00:55:29 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: As often as you find your way to be peaceful, without variations, be suspicious. For you are deviating from the divine ways trodden by the weary footsteps of the saints. The more you proceed on the way towards the city of the kingdom and approach its neighborhood, this will be the sign: you will meet hard temptations. And the nearer you approach, the more difficulties you will find. The hard temptations into which God brings the soul are in accordance with the greatness of His gifts. If there is a weak soul which is not able to bear a very hard temptation and God deals meekly with it, then know that it is not capable of bearing a hard temptation and so is not worthy either of a great gift. (St. Isaac the Syrian)
00:56:58 Lilly: Amen
00:59:10 Ren Witter: My favorite response to the demon’s questions comes from Saint Ephraim: “Do not lose heart, O soul, do not grieve; pronounce not over thyself a final judgement for the multitude of thy sins; do not commit thyself to fire; do not say: the Lord has cast me from His face.
Such words are not pleasing to God. Can it be that he who has fallen cannot get up? Can it be that he who has turned away cannot turn back again? Dost thou not hear how kind the Father is to a prodigal?
Do not be ashamed to turn back and say boldly: I will arise and go to my Father. Arise and go!. . .
00:59:19 Ren Witter: . . . He will accept thee and will not reproach thee, but rather rejoice at thy return. He awaits thee; just do not be ashamed and do not hide from the face of God as did Adam.
It was for thy sake that Christ was crucified; so will He cast thee aside? He knows who oppresses us. He knows that we have no other help but Him alone.
Christ knows that man is miserable. Do not give thyself up to despair and apathy, assuming that thou hast been prepared fro the fire. Christ derives no consolation from thrusting us into the fire; He gains nothing if He sends us into the abyss to be tormented.
Imitate the prodigal son: heave the city that starves thee. Come and beseech Him and thou shalt behold the glory of God. Thy face shall be enlightened and thou wilt rejoice in the sweetness of paradise. Glory to the Lord and Lover of mankind Who saves us! “
01:06:24 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: sorry, I forgot to finish the St Isaac quote. here is the rest.... “God never gives a large gift and small temptations. So temptations are to be classed in accordance with gifts. Thus from the hardships you are called to endure you may understand the measure of the greatness which your soul has reached. And your comfort will be in proportion to your endurance. .” “In accordance with your humility you will be given endurance in your distress. And in accordance with your endurance its weight will be lifted from your soul and you will be comforted in your troubles. And in accordance with your comfort, your love of God will increase. And in accordance with your love, your spiritual joy will increase.” “When our compassionate Father is of the will to relieve those who are real children in their temptations, He does not take their temptations away from them, but He imparts to them endurance under temptations, and all that good which they receive through it, to the perfection of their souls.
01:06:28 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: May Christ in His grace make us worthy of bearing evils for the sake of His love, with thanksgivings in the heart. Amen.”
01:15:50 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: Recently Ukrainian biblical scholar Taras Tymo has been posting videos on youtube explaining the psalms. in his commentary on Ps. 50 he reminds his viewers that In Ps 50, "blot out" is the same Greek word as the one used for cleaning old text off of lambskin to make it ready for new text to be written on it, a somewhat brutal process; and, "wash me" means to clean by beating with or against stones. So repentance is not "ouchless".
01:18:28 Andres Mason: I thought more of a "never left the state of repentance"
01:18:43 Lilly: Does the tomb represent the Sacrament of Confession?
01:20:21 Andres Mason: eventually he will come out of the tomb our resurrection is just delayed
01:21:48 Ren Witter: It actually reminds me of Saint Isaac: “In this life there is no Sabbath.” No rest from repentance.
01:22:28 Andres Mason: The tomb is not negative
01:22:34 Andres Mason: anymore*
01:26:28 Lilly: Gracias hermanos
01:27:30 Micah Valine: Thank you
01:27:55 carolnypaver: Thank you, Father!
01:28:14 Joseph Muir: shookran, Abouna!
Tonight we concluded letter 41 where St. Theophan is discussing with Anastasia the practice of confession. First and foremost she must let go of all childish fear and anxiety and remember that it is God himself who provides the grace of repentance and like the father in the story of the prodigal son, God draws close to her with arms outstretched in order to embrace her. The more her conscience is sensitized and the more frequently she practices Confession the anguish of heart that she will experience will be transformed into compunction - a mourning over love lost and the desire to see it restored. She will become more cognizant of the ways that she is incorrigible and so will begin to struggle more fully with the sins that often remain hidden. The most important thing that he would have her remember is that she establish a true intention and the decide to be diligent about everything before God. She must not complicate things but rather allow her approach to God be simple and humble.
It is best to confess the evening before communion in order that the next morning should be filled only with the thought of receiving her Lord. And when she prepares herself to receive that day she should come with a simple desire that the Lord provide her through the his grace with the strength that she needs for every kind of good so that her life will be acceptable to him. That is all!
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Text of the chat during the group:
00:30:16 Anthony Joyce: similarly we’d never tell our spouses to only say sorry for non-venial sins against us
00:42:17 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: One must remember that the distinction (philosophically speaking) between venial and mortal sins belongs to western spirituality which is not used in the Christian East. The East is more sensitive to Semitic ways of thinking about sin as "missing the mark" in the way that a marksman would miss the bull's eye of a target. This is what St Paul means when he says in Romans that all have sinned. From this flow the idea that our Lord is the New Adam or the perfect Adam because he does not miss the mark of what it means to be human. Discussions about mortal and venial are superfluous here since it makes no difference whether you miss the mark by a few inches or by many feet. When we speak of venial and mortal we are talking in the realm of relationship, rather than being human. Here of course one can sin in such a way that the relationship may be disturbed but not destroyed. to use the spousal example, sometimes "I'm sorry" is enough but other times a card, a box of chocolates, etc.
00:44:11 Sheila Applegate: Great point. I like this way of thinking about sin better.
00:45:46 Eric Williams: I’ve been wondering about this ever since becoming Byzantine. How does the East distinguish sins that *must* be confessed before receiving the Eucharist from those that are not necessary but still helpful to confess?
00:45:49 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: I simply point this out because St Theophan's advice is steeped in Eastern Christian spirituality, so that is how he needs to be read.
00:46:36 carolnypaver: Thank you so much, Fr. Ivan.
00:47:46 Sheila Applegate: Of course. In this context. But it still brings out the point you said of, what does it matter if you miss the mark by an inch or a mile. Interesting.
00:48:13 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: The way you phrase the question is western since it is asking for a system. In the East, all sins are confessed as soon as they are unmasked... Ephesians 5:8-14
00:50:30 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: so you confess everything even if it mean repeating from the last confession; see also Ephesians 4:13-17
00:52:52 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: in the East, we prefer to confess attitudes and directions of the soul (feelings-willings, thoughts, desires) which underly any particular breakings of the laws....
01:27:33 Sharon: Thank you, Fr. David
Tonight we picked up with Letter 40 - considering again the various causes of spiritual cooling. Theophan begins by discussing a rather chilling thought - the willful falling away from the divine will, in full consciousness and in defiance. We can be overcome by anger, frustration and disappointment in our life to such a degree that we begin to turn away from God; perhaps subtly at first but then in greater measure. If we are not careful we can fall under complete darkness. Therefore, Theophan tells her to avoid this at all cost. She must fear it like fire, like death. He instructs her instead to hold on to her zeal and keep fast to her rule of prayer. She may need to alter it given the circumstances, such as illness. But she is never to let go of her routine even if she receives no consolation.
In letter 41, Theophan begins to discuss with her some final considerations before she goes to confession. He begins by dealing with the most familiar of problems - fear. It is this that she must let go of and trusts above all in the mercy in the gentleness of God who waits for her with open arms. The priest is but the witness and the vehicle for healing and forgiveness. Thus, Theophan tells Anastasia to confess more frequently. With this anxiety will diminish. To aid in this process she should write down every one of her sins in order that she is truly confessing what is in her heart and on her conscience. “Don’t make the priest ask you”, he tells her. He wants her confession to be as genuine as possible - a reflection of what’s going on within her and not prompted by the questions of the priest. Over time she will come to see the deep and grand beauty of the sacrament.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:22:28 Mark Cummings: Not related but Divine Office 2nd reading today is awesome...from On Spiritual Perfection by Diadochus
00:39:55 Mark Cummings: From today's 2nd reading in office of readings...Therefore, we must maintain great stillness of mind, even in the midst of our struggles. We shall then be able to distinguish between the different types of thoughts that come to us: those that are good, those sent by God, we will treasure in memory; those that are evil and inspired by the devil we will reject...
00:45:05 Eric Ash: I also see a greater emphasis in the east on having a spiritual director. It doesn't just fall on an individual's discernment to decide if they are altering their prayer routine to benefit or delude themselves. They take it to their spiritual father that knows their strengths/weaknesses/problems/potential.
00:49:27 Eric Williams: I think St. Philip Neri and others like him in the West would wish that we all would make such faithful, consistent, and humble use of a spiritual director and regular confessor.
01:07:14 Ren Witter: I find that if I do not write things down I am so anxious about remembering everything that I am not really present. Writing it down also allows for much more extensive reflection.
01:16:39 Eric Williams: Who’s on first?!
01:17:19 Eric Williams: Talk about being slain in the Spirit!
01:31:03 carolnypaver: At certain times (Jubilee Year) there is a plenary indulgence attached to making a general confession.
01:34:13 Eric Williams: Perhaps scrupulosity was more common when Jansenism was a serious problem.
01:36:29 Eric Williams: Sometimes priests imply or suggest scrupulosity by giving overly simplistic penances.
01:41:40 Mark Cummings: Thank you!
We continued reading Letter 40 on the various causes of spiritual cooling. St. Theophan tells Anastasia that above all she must have an anguished prostration before God acknowledging her weakness of will and her lack of zeal. In fact, she must make this persistent and it will help her walk the straight path in the spiritual life. She should strive never to let her desire for God weaken. Theophan tells her that she must never even let that become an option for her. Rather, Anastasia must hold on to her diligence in the spiritual life and she must come to see prayer as the beating of the heart and breathing keep a person alive. Lacking prayer, the spiritual life ceases to exist. The spirit either dies or it comes to a standstill. This, she must maintain and kind in every possible way - willingness, zeal and diligence. This is the foundation of the spiritual life and it protects it and is its bulwark. The cooling of the spirit is the most bitter of things!
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Text of chat during the group:
00:48:04 Lisa Weidner: Sister Theres Aletheia Noble
00:48:44 Lisa Weidner: speaks of the precise of remembering one’s death- Momento Mori - her web site is https://pursuedbytruth.com/
01:22:13 Eric Williams: AWESOME book!
We picked up this evening in our final session of St. Isaac with the last part of homily 76. Isaac makes it very clear that those who are given over fully to God in prayer and solitude begin to live in the perfect love of God and thus also fulfill the commandment to love one’s neighbor. In God, nothing is lacking. Yet, this is a rarity. Few and far between our called to this way of life and only when it is lived fully and withholding nothing of the self is love complete. In so far as one cultivates solitude and stillness and yet engages with other men and receives their aid - so too is he obligated to tend to the sick and lift up and serve his fallen brothers. One must avoid the illusion of perfect stillness as an escape from one’s obligation to care for one’s neighbor.
In the last of St. Isaacs’s homilies, Homily 77, he presents us with the perfect and most important of virtues – humility. All the other virtues must be perfected in order that a person is capable of receiving this gift of God‘s grace. It is to clothe oneself with the very raiment of God. God revealed Himself to us in His Son – emptying Himself, taking upon our flesh and embracing the form of a servant, becoming obedient even unto death. Isaac tells us that we cannot look upon the spiritual life as if we are progressing up a ladder by her own power to achieve some natural goal constructed by her own minds or spiritual sensibilities. One is clothes in humility by God the more the self is set aside. We are to put on the mind of Christ and imitate his humility.
We continued our reading of Letter 39. St. Theophan wants to prepare his beloved Anastasia for the spiritual battle that lies ahead. He begins by telling her that the adversary never sleeps. This thought alone could be the object of our meditation endlessly. The evil one is relentless in his desire to disrupt our relationship with God. Anastasia must not fear this reality but forever hold it in mind and let it help her understand that she must relentlessly call to God and rely upon his grace and his help. The devil will either withdraw and allow for the illusion of spiritual strength to grow and then attack the person all at once to pull them down. Or he will afflict them right from the beginning so as to discourage them. Attack after attack will come until the individual gives up. Thus, she must be steadfast; and as Theophan has told her she must be courageous and a plucky fighter. She must fight as one who has placed all of her hope in God.
In Letter 40, St. Theophan continues along this line of thought. He begins to discuss with Anastasia the various causes of spiritual cooling. Anastasia fears her own lack of diligence. Wisely, Theophan tells her not to let go of that fear but let it kindle within her a greater enthusiasm to drive her forward in the face of her own weaknesses. Eventually hope for salvation will emerge as one comes to experience the depth of God‘s grace and his constant help. Until then, she must cry out to God with an anguished heart; and anxiety that flows more from the urgent longings of the heart for love than it does from fear of punishment. She must strive to enter by the narrow door and so unite her prayers to the Spirit that calls out to God from the very depths of her being.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:48:29 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: Oh, I can relate to that.....
00:53:59 Eric Williams: I love that bit. Instead of being annoyed and disappointed that their fellow close disciples are pridefully seeking honors in Christ’s royal court, they get jealous! They make the problem worse!
00:59:18 Anthony Joyce: Vicki beckons..thank you, good sir, for your time for us. Til next time!
01:01:08 Eric Williams: Psalm 39 (38) seems relevant here.
01:20:35 Eric Williams: “Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him! So whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them; for this is the law and the prophets.”
01:26:57 Ren Witter: Or that weird “Man makes plan and God laughs” one. Does not, as you said, reflect the real, deep love of God.
01:32:55 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: Before we end today, a little taste of Byzantine-Ukrainian spirituality: To the servant of God, Father David, with the upcoming 27th anniversary of his presbyteral ordination on January 15, grant, O Lord, a blessed and peaceful life, health, salvation, success in every endeavor, and preserve him and his loved ones, for many happy and blessed years! God grant you many years! Many happy years! God grant you many years! Many happy years! May you be blessed with health and salvation! God grant you many happy years!
*Please note that there were some technical difficulties which caused the audio to drop a few times between the 40-45min mark.
We began this evening with Letter 38. St. Theophan shows Anastasia where she should take up for her Lenten disciplines. It may be surprising for some of us when we hear it. He tells her that she should begin with the renewal of her baptismal vows; vows that were made on her behalf when she was a child. At the very beginning of Lent she must in a clear and decisive fashion commit herself to Christ and her renunciation of everything that is contrary to His will. How different this is from our day when we typically renew our baptismal vows at Easter. St. Theophan would have her see them as the lens through which she views all of her disciplines and takes them up. They mean nothing if they do not lead to Christ and they must be shaped and embraced with the fulfillment of these vows in mind.
In Letter 39, St. Theophan becomes more specific: he begins to tell her about the battle that lies ahead. She must be ready and prepared to engage in the fiercest kind of struggle with the most hostile opponent. The evil one will do everything he can to destroy her hope in the Lord or to distort her vision of the discipline she now embraces. Therefore, she must be humble in the battle and remain constant even in the midst of affliction. She must have strong courage and remain steadfast even when she seems to fail repeatedly. Such failure, in fact, will always be present; but it will not be absent the providence of God. Everything is from him and he shapes all things in secret. Anastasia’s prayer must simply be: “Save me by the way Thou knowest” And in the end, through these words she must give herself over entirely and irrevocably to God.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:42:05 Mary McLeod: I read somewhere that fasting without prayer is just dieting :)
01:00:49 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: From the Third Hour: Prayer of Saint Mardarios O God and Master, Father almighty, Lord, only-begotten Son, Jesus Christ and Holy Spirit, one Godhead, and one power, have mercy on me a sinner; and by the judgements which You know, save me Your unworthy servant; for You are blessed for ever and ever. Amen.
01:01:53 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: General Prayer of the Hours: In every season and at every hour, in heaven and on earth You are worshipped and glorified, O good God, longsuffering, rich in mercy, loving the just and compassionate to sinners, calling all to salvation by the promise of the blessings to come; now at this very hour, Lord, accept our prayers, and direct our lives in the ways of Your commandments. Sanctify our souls, purify our bodies, correct our thoughts, and make our knowledge whole and sober. Deliver us from every distress, evil, and pain. Surround us with Your holy angels as with a rampart so that protected and guided by their host we may reach the unity of the faith and the knowledge of Your unapproachable glory; for You are blessed for ever and ever. Amen.
01:15:27 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: the Russian or old church Slavonic govenie, with its Ukrainian counterpart, hoveennia, when it is used in the Divine Liturgy of St John Chrysostom petition when we pray for everyone who enters the temple in order to pray in the spirit of “blahohoviynist’”, means more than just reverence or respect, for it is the kind of attitude that creates worship which is “full of the most sincere homage, respect and devotion as an expression of his own underlying measureless surrender to God”. This aspect of surrender is also the ability to perceive everything as coming from God, and not just perceiving it in any old way but with gratitude. This is why as he was dying almost literally on the road on the way to his place of exile, St John Chrysostom's last words were "Glory to God for all things!"
01:16:35 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: https://janotec.typepad.com/terrace/2007/10/the-last-words-.html
John remembered all these things, and he knew that his time was ending. He was not afraid. Even as a young monk he was never afraid of the night, because for him it was never dark. In one of his many sermons on the Psalms, he said that “… it is during the night that all the plants respire, and it is then also that the soul of man is more penetrated with the dews falling from Heaven … night heals the wounds of our soul and calms our griefs.” He was exhausted, and his body was broken by exposure to the wind and rain, the rocks and thorns, strong enemies and a weak body. But he wasn’t brokenhearted, and he was not bitter. He was not depressed or hopeless. He remembered all these things: his enemies, his disappointments and defeats, his last long journey into the wild lands, and the beatings and lashings of his two imperial guards. He forgave them, every one, for each and every hurt and trespass. In this world, you can forgive, but you
01:16:53 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: He forgave them, every one, for each and every hurt and trespass. In this world, you can forgive, but you don't forget. But every time you remember is one more instance in the infinite count of seventy times seven. John remembered and forgave them all, just as his own Lord forgave his every sin on the Cross. His body was fading, but he was still on fire for the Lord. His soul was even brighter with the flame of Divine Love, and the glory of God’s grace. On fire and not in darkness, in strength and not weakness, and in the greatest sermon of his lifetime, St. John Chrysostom the Golden-Mouthed, whispered out his last words: “Glory to God for all things!” Only a man who had given his heart solely to the Lord Jesus, who had sacrificed his everything to the Holy Trinity, who had soared to the heights of the Church and earthly power, who had it all taken away and spent his last years on dusty, forgotten roads … only such a man could say such things, giving God all the glory, Who gave this last sermon such
01:17:00 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: golden eternal wings."
01:18:30 Sheila Applegate: That is really beautiful. Thanks. I love his words on the night.
Tonight we began Homily 76 which focuses on the virtue of mercy and compassion. Isaac addresses the question of how one who lives in seclusion and stillness can fulfill the command of the gospel to love one’s neighbor. Isaac beautifully describes for us that only the rarest of individuals is called to a life that is completely wrapped in God and in prayer. And in so far is this is true, they embrace all of creation as God Himself due to the radical communion that they share with Him. Beyond this, their life of radical seclusion from men may prevent them from actively showing mercy and compassion. The mercy and compassion is all embracing but one cannot tangibly reach out to others because of the life they’ve been called to by God.
However, those who live among others, no matter how few, must respond with mercy in the face of tangible needs. One must “leave God for God” as it were. When a neighbor is sick or starving one must attend to their needs without counting the costs. One’s religious life cannot become a form of resistance that blinds a person to the needs of others. We cannot use our religious practices as a bubble to shield us from others or any contact with them. To aid us in our understanding Isaac gives us a number of examples of those holy souls who despite the rigors of their solitude went the extra mile in attending the needs of others.
We picked up this evening with letter 37. St. Theophan begins by reminding Anastasia that she does not want to belong to the category of one who is neither hot nor cold but lukewarm; having no real desire to please God and no desire for salvation. He doesn’t know if she falls into that category but it is possible that she is simply following along with everyone else in the group; doing what they do. However, she is called to something far greater; She is to do all things in good conscience and it (conscience) is to become for her a kind of new garment. If she seeks to please God and to do his will in all things she will begin to experience something of the peace of the kingdom. Before this happens, however, Anastasia must see and feel the depravity of life outside of God. She must acknowledge the many ways that she has lived her life vainly, letting time simply pass by. Out of this alone will emerge a contrite heart that fosters a deep repentance and desire for the life of God. “Do not let your life pass in vain,” he tells her. “Embrace this path now!”
St. Theophan begins letter 38 by calling Anastasia to consciously renew the vows that were made at her baptism. She simply needs to begin gradually and to do what she is able to do, trusting in the grace and love of God. She must do this, however, with a firm resolve and a belief in the depths of God‘s love. If she does this, all will be well.
Tonight we came to the conclusion of homily 75. Saint Isaac continued to explain to us the blessings of Night Vigils. They give light to the thinking; having purified the mind and the heart through limiting sleep, one begins to discern the things of the kingdom through prolonged prayer and watchfulness. The Light shines upon the mind and one begins to perceive that which is Divine.
To help us understand this Isaac gives us a number of examples of those who are exemplars of holiness and lifetime practitioners of night vigils. In them we see not only the discipline that is needed but also the fruit of the practice; unyielding fortitude to produces transfiguration of the body. The Fathers came to acknowledge this as a sweet labor.
However, Isaac does not want us to have any illusions about the practice or its difficulties. One must ask oneself honestly if there is a desire not only to practice Vigils, but to foster constant stillness and a willingness to endure the afflictions that these practices bring. Are we willing to make the necessary sacrifices to live a holy and undistracted life? Without this desire, the attempt to practice Vigils would be foolhardy.
St. Isaac closes with a comforting word as one who understands the weakness and the fragility of human nature. We may struggle throughout our whole life to engage in the practice of stillness. But we will undoubtedly experience losses and gains, victories and defeats. In all of this we must never lose patience and, most importantly, we must not lose our joy in the Lord and our trust in His grace.
In Letter 37, St. Theophan begins to feed Anastasia with solid food. He draws her from simply resolving to amend her life to yearning to act in accord with and in harmony with the will of God. It is this that she must be most diligent in seeking in her life. Anastasia must begin to examine her life in light of this general rule: everything she does should be done in accord with his divine will and for the sake of pleasing God. The person who does this, he tells her, even though they might have no talent, no riches, no special ability, will come to experience the joy of the kingdom and know themselves as seen by God as pleasing in His eyes. There is no greater gift. Most of the world, however, lives carelessly. People’s acts are done haphazardly - they act not because they desire to do the will of God but rather because they are drawn along by the ways of the world. The majority of the people in this world are driven by the spirit of lukewarmness. They have nothing against God but they have no deliberate desire to please him either. They are not egoists but yet they preserve their own self interest at every turn, avoiding every self-sacrifice. They are not blatantly vain, but they have no objection to amusing themselves in worldly matters. They want to be seen as part of the world and sharing in its delights rather than seeking to see God.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:55:37 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: Eastern Canon law often legislates the bare minimum, but in the UGCC, spiritually the general goal for everyone is: all Wednesdays and Fridays of the year are fasting days except for when a feast of the Lord or of the Theotokos occurs on that day; Four penitential seasons: the Great Fast (aka Lent), dairyless and meatless at least forty days before Pascha, (abstaining from meat seven days earlier actually), the St Philip's Fast, forty days before Christmas, Sts Peter and Paul Fast (aka Apostles' Fast) from the Second Monday after Pentecost until June 29, and the Savior's Fast (aka Dormition Fast) from August 1-14. Granted there is no fasting even on Wednesdays and Fridays between Pascha and Ascension Thursday and between Dec. 26 and Jan. 4. Byzantines also never fast, although we do abstain, on Saturdays and Sundays even during the penitential seasons.
00:56:09 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: UGCC = Ukrainian Greco-Catholic Church
01:00:49 Eric Williams: Orthodoxy/Byzantine Catholicism: Hard disciplines, mercifully taught ;)
01:01:19 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: yes....
01:10:02 Eric Williams: “Cheap grace is the grace we bestow on ourselves. Cheap grace is the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline, Communion without confession...Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ, living and incarnate.” ― Dietrich Bonhoeffer
01:19:54 Mary McLeod: Thank you, Merry Christmas!
Homily 75 continues to be St. Isaac‘s most exceptional and powerful reflection. He speaks about the oft neglected practice of night vigils. This, he tells us, is the most powerful form of prayer, more powerful than praying during the daytime. Isaac tells us that this is not because there is something magical about praying at night. He is not fostering a kind of superstition here. He is quite simply telling us the praying at night offers a person the opportunity to come before God without any distraction or impediment; humbling the mind and body by disciplining oneself through fasting not only from food but also from sleep. Unencumbered, the soul searches for God with an urgent longing. Having nothing weighing it down, it swiftly runs to the Beloved and seeks to remain in His embrace unceasingly. It is for this reason that the devil envies vigils above other all other forms of prayer. For, Isaac tells us, even when it is practiced poorly and in an undisciplined fashion, God produces great fruit in the soul.
Tonight we began with letter 35. St. Theophan begins to discuss with Anastasia the importance of identifying one’s inner disposition; whether one is focused on God and pursuing the life of virtue or driven by one’s passions or certain kinds depravity. It becomes very important to identify clearly the primary passion and those intertwined with it. It is the strongest one that we must overcome first in order to weaken all the others. Strike it down and one gains a great measure of freedom. We need also to identify that to which we are most dedicated and the one to whom we are most dedicated in this life. Are we driven by the spirit of our own ego and satisfying its needs or have we set aside the ego in order to live for God alone? Theophan like so many of the Fathers before him emphasizes the desire for God. It is this that drives us on to engage in the spiritual battle and to be willing to make all the necessary sacrifices.
We continued our discussion of homily 75. Isaac draws us into the beauty of the practice of vigils. He speaks to us of the freedom from despondency and the onrush of joy the monks who immerse themselves in prayer at night experience. With the mind and heart filled with the things of God and of His word, no foreign thought has room to enter. All they know is God and they speak to him in the secrecy of their heart.
Isaac makes it clear that there is great room for variation, depending upon the monk and the strength of his constitution and will. Adjustments might have to be made, he acknowledges, but one always seeks to keep his mind and heart fixed upon God or upon the example of the saints who lived in this discipline in all of its fullness.
Isaac then begins to lay out for us how it is that these monks were able to sustain themselves in such a life; not only the discipline of it but how they could maintain themselves physically and emotionally in such isolation. As always, Isaac‘s writing is beautiful; no matter what he touches upon, it speaks directly to the heart.
What a wonderful discussion and a wonderful group of people! This one hour makes Wednesday the best day of the week and something that deeply nourishes and gives joy to the soul.
St. Theophan offers Anastasia an exceptional and clear vision of how to prepare oneself for confession. He lays out for her simply how to examine her acts and the circumstances in which they were carried out, her interior disposition, and her general approach to life as a whole. In the few short paragraphs we read and discussed this evening, we began to understand the primacy of conscience in the examination of one’s life. St. Theophan describes it as the “unsleeping guard”. It lets nothing slip by and lets us justify nothing that is sinful. However, conscience is not infallible. Either age, confusion, or ignorance can distort its vision vision and allow things to go unnoticed about our lives and how they can be touched by sin. The Word of God must become the mirror for us in which we examine ourselves and through which we correct ourselves in light of the Commandments. Beyond this we must look to see if we carry out those commandments fully or if there are subtle ways that we commit sins against charity, against purity of heart, etc. Has our conscience been formed by the world or by the things of God or have we given up responsibility for the formation of that conscience altogether and live faux obedience?
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Text of chat during the group:
00:32:29 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: Govenie (pronounced go-vye-knee-eh) is the practice of intense fasting and prayer ranging from one day to a week prior to receiving communion, often for one of the four feasts culminating a fasting period. it included not only fasting, but also attending Divine Services, reading prayers (including canons, akathists, etc.), doing prostrations and engaging in other spiritual activities, instead of going to work. For a brief overview of govenie, see Saint Theophan the Recluse, The Path to Salvation: A Manual of Spiritual Transformation, trans. Seraphim Rose and the St. Herman of Alaska Brotherhood (Platina, CA: St. Herman of Alaska Brotherhood, 1996), 269–73. See also Nadieszda Kizenko, “Sacramental Confession in Modern Russia and Ukraine,” in State Secularism and Lived Religion in Soviet Russia and Ukraine, ed. Catherine Wanner (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2012), 190–217.
00:34:03 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: https://stmaximus.org/files/ConfTong/200517SamaritanCT.pdf
00:53:08 Eric Williams: Didn't the author of The Cloud of Unknowing warn very strongly against speaking too openly about personal spiritual experiences?
01:16:32 Eric Williams: You have an intimidating visage. ;)
Isaac certainly presents us with solid food. We’ve come to the end of homily 74. Isaac begins to describe for us the image of a heart that is truly dead to the world and how it perceives the mode of life of the new man. In other words, a life free from the ego and from the drive of the passions takes on the New Adam and begins to share in the fullness of the life of resurrection. One begin to contemplate the revelation of the Divine. In this sense of the desert Fathers become for us a mirror; in it we see whether or not we have died to the things of this world and our attachments to the world and perceive the true beauty of the life that is held before us. If we stop for a moment and think about spending the day in silence, we see that our heart and our thoughts flit about as moths around a light. We are easily distracted.
In homily 75, Isaac lays out before us a practice of prayer that may be unfamiliar to most - keeping vigil in prayer during the night. Isaac begins by offering us a prayer to be said at the beginning of such a time. We are to call out to God to shelter us from our common enemy, to free us from the distractions of our passions in order that we might enter into the sacred Liturgy with strength and clarity. Filled with grace, one sheds tears that purify the mind and the heart and allow us to love with tranquility and with the true freedom of chastity. One begins the liturgy without turmoil and filled with joy.
Issac speaks of the freedom that exists even within the prescribed practices. One might stand praying the psalms and yet the Spirit might lift the individual into a deep silence where time passes swiftly. It is then that one must give way to the guidance of the Spirit to be led in accord with the will of God and drawn swiftly to His Heart as He desires.
We continued our reading of St. Theophan’s discussion with the young Anastasia about to Govenie; the entrance into the holy season of Lent - when men and women would often take off an entire week of work so as to enter into their spiritual disciplines with zeal and focus.
Tonight, he began by asking her “how does one pray at home after having returned from church?” It is necessary, he tells her, to prolong the attitude and spirit of prayer. One must not be given over to distractions but immediately enter into solitude in one’s room where one can continue to read prayers, pray for one’s own most vital needs to God, as well as making physical prostrations to humble oneself before Him.
Essentially St. Theophan is telling Anastasia not to take her mind off of God at all. Even when she becomes physically tired she should take up some physical handicraft so that her mind does not drift into daydreaming. She is to read devotional books by herself or with others. She is to avoid idle conversation so as not to become dissipated. She is to remind the body that it is the source of the need for repentance. Thus, she is to discipline herself in regards to food and sleep. Anastasia must accustom herself to and find the right measure of discipline in order that she may maintain this zeal throughout the entire course of the Lenten season.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:45:05 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: re: pg. 141: in the Russian practice of the Byzantine Rite, the "All-Night Vigil" is a technical term, translating the Old Church Slavonic term Vsenochnoye, and referring to Vespers and Matins being served together as one long about four hours liturgical worship service, mostly on Saturday evenings or the eve of a Feast. If one does not go to church to "hear" it one would pray it in one's home, provided you had the books and could read Old Church Slavonic. And so St. Theophan says that Matins is "heard" in the evening. In the USA, among Ukrainians and Greeks (Melkite Catholics as well as Greek Orthodox and Antiochene Orthodox) and Ruthenian Catholics, I think as well, Matins (if it is served) would occur in the morning, while Vespers would occur on the previous evening.
00:45:06 Scott: The group I knew turned in at around 8, i think?. So it's 8-2:30 sleep (6.5 hours?)?
00:45:39 Scott: (My comment is about some Romans, not Fr's comment)
00:58:02 Eric Ash: My understanding is before the widespread use of electric lightbulbs many people's natural sleep cycles included sleeping a bit earlier and waking for an hour to two in the middle of the night. Sometimes it was referred to as second sleep
01:02:42 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: St Theophan is well known for describing the third and highest degree of prayer as "the mind resting in the heart" and so his advice on pg. 141 that "one must read a little, but each item that is read must be brought to conscious feeling by devoting lengthy attention to it" is a more common way of stating the same principle
01:23:04 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: Govenie as used on pg. 142 can also be translated as a "retreat", esp. as it refers to the use of govenie in the first week of the Great Fast (Lent)
Tonight we lingered long over a mere four paragraphs from homily 74. Their beauty and their depth allowed no other option.
Isaac began by speaking to us of the beauty as well as the fragility of chastity. This virtue, which gives us the capacity to love freely, is to be treasured and protected; for it can be lost even in old age when one might think it has become deeply rooted. Isaac’s vision of life is one of repentance; of continuously turning the mind in the heart to God and letting go of all obstacles that would prevent us from experiencing the deepest intimacy with him.
The path to that intimacy, Isaac tells us, is the Cross. This is the door through which we enter into the heavenly Mysteries. When we experience the affliction of the cross we also experience the consolation of the vision of God‘s love and presence. We never suffer in isolation. The cross both reveals the love of God to us but also transforms us and draws us into the depth of that Love.
This evening we continued to discuss the path of a virtuous life. Saint Theophan begins to instruct the young Anastasia and us about how we are to prepare ourselves to receive the Holy Eucharist: the period of time set aside for fasting, the confession of our sins, and the reception of holy communion. It becomes very clear that Saint Theophan is speaking about something that shapes the whole of our life. We are not to fast haphazardly, allowing our thoughts to stray or to linger in daydreams. Our attention is to be kept upon God especially when we are in Church. To let the thoughts stray is to lose sight of Who it is that we stand before. We must always remember that we come before God Our fear and love of Him should shape our actions. We are to do all in our power to warm our hearts with devotion. When necessary we must force ourselves to do everything that we can to make ourselves ready.
In letter 33 he begins to speak to Anastasia about her conduct at home. When she returns from church it is not to dive back into distractions. Rather, she is to rush to her room, the place of solitude and silence and linger in the communion of love that she has just entered. Overwhelmed with the great Mystery in which God has privileged us to participate, we can only cry out “Lord have mercy.”
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Text of chat during the group:
00:12:32 Margie: Greetings
00:18:58 Fr. David: http://traditionalorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2010/06/approaching-constant-govenie.html
00:23:01 Mark Cummings: https://www.howtopronounce.com/russian/govenie
00:25:29 Eric Williams: I think it's Old Church Slavonic and pronounced approximately go-vyeh-nyee-eh.
00:35:02 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: This Old Church Slavonic word govenie is still used today in modern Ukrainian as hoveennia-говіння. Russian uses it without any changes to the spelling but they pronounce in Russian as govyenyeeeh. It is integral to a petition in the Great Litany or Ektenia of Peace used in the Divine Liturgy of St John Chrysostom as well as services like Matins and Vespers. "For this holy church and for all who enter it with faith, reverence (blaho-hoveennia) and fear of God, let us pray to the Lord. So blaho means good, suggesting that it is possible to have bad or improper hoveennia as well as good. It is trying to capture a unified attitude of spirit, soul (feelings-willing, thoughts, desires), and body. Of course sin disintegrates where the incensive, appetitive and intellective powers of the soul as well as the proper relationship of body, soul and spirit are disordered. And so this attitude is really about an entire holistic as well as holy lifestyle rather just a singular feeling or thought or desire.
00:35:46 Eric Williams: Thank you, Fr Ivan! I knew you'd come through with correct pronunciation. :)
00:40:38 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: The verb form in Ukrainian is hoveety-говіти. This is trying to capture the way in which one participates in worship services as an extension or being interwoven or integrated with the way one lives. It makes sense that the way you "are", or "is" in front of God doesn't change because you walk into or out of a church building. Existence is integrated. This is why some church fathers speak of the liturgy after the liturgy. If one's mode of living is good hoveennia, this permeates all your time, in all places, whether in church or not. But of course the eucharist is the source of this mode of living.
00:42:27 Eric Williams: If you build it (public vespers and other hours), they will come. The Oratory proved that with expanded hours for confession.
00:46:33 Eric Ash: The Cherubikon is sung markedly slower as well which also really helps to slow the mind down and remind us to refocus our often distracted minds towards prayer
00:52:40 Mark Cummings: I feel like when I daydream during mass and prayer, I am not allowing myself to go to as great of depth in my relationship with Jesus. My overall spiritual experience is lacking.
00:54:15 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: Eric Ash. yes... thank you for pointing this out. it's not just because the priest is doing or saying something in secret and we need to drag out the singing to fill the space. Believe it or not, I've actually heard some people try to explain the Cherubikon in this way. One does not easily lay aside earthborn cares or replace them with heavenborn ones in order that the King of all may be accepted wholeheartedly. The body and soul are unruly even in the midst of a good spirit. And so the majestic and slow singing is meant to help the easily distracted soul (thoughts feelings desires willpower) and unruly body (ever seeking entertainment of self rather than worship of the "Other") submit to the spirit and restore the integrity needed for holistic and healthy worship. The passions are real and because of them we can so easily miss the Lord Who is ever bending over backwards to be present to us.
00:54:23 Eric Williams: I'm highly distractible, but the Jesus Prayer is great for bringing my attention back.
00:55:57 Mark Cummings: Is adoration still happening or is it disallowed with COVID restrictions?
00:58:03 The Pittsburgh Oratory: It is still happening.
00:58:39 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: The Jesus Prayer for me as well helps to focus and pay attention. On the outside it looks as if I'm disrespectful, doing something else, when someone is giving a talk or liturgizing, but in reality, the Jesus Prayer hones and guides my listening skills. Again this is about listening with heart not just mind or ears.
00:59:14 Eric Williams: Pews really make prostrations difficult. :(
01:00:04 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: Kneeling in the East is a sign of alienation from God and the desire to repent because of it.
01:02:13 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: In the East adoration is expressed either by prostrating to the ground with head touching the ground or by standing straight and head erect, almost like at attention in the military, acknowledging that through his resurrection Jesus has trampled our death by his death and we can now stand restored to life.
01:02:33 Eric Williams: Nothing reminds me of the countless angels and saints at liturgy with me like walls covered in wonderful icons!
01:20:21 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: it would appear that govenie in Russia in St Theophan's time also has another meaning. Sort of like the way people say Kleenex when they want to say tissue paper. In St. Theophan’s time it was a widespread custom in Russia for people to spend the first week of Great Lent preparing to receive Holy Communion on Saturday. This preparation, in Russian was called govenie, and it involved fasting, attending Divine Services, reading prayers (including canons, akathists, etc.), doing prostrations and engaging in other spiritual activities, instead of going to work. On the Friday of the first week of Lent, people would go to confession. Thus, when St. Theophan mentions the “six days of spiritual creation,” he refers to these first six days of Lent which were a preparation for Holy Communion on St. Theodore’s Saturday.
01:22:57 Mark Cummings: It is my dream to live across the street from church!
01:24:30 The Pittsburgh Oratory: Here is that link again for anyone who joined after Fr. David posted it: http://traditionalorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2010/06/approaching-constant-govenie.html
01:24:37 Katharine Memole: I’ve lived places with church on the public square. when there are feast days people walk out of church snd then celebrate with food, games, fireworks right in the square. it’s hard when the onus of making feast days and liturgical seasons part of daily life is completely on individual families instead of communal.
01:24:54 Mark Cummings: Father - Is there any chance that you can stay on for a couple of minutes after the podcast to discuss your icons?
01:25:47 Eric Williams: Amen, Katharine! It's super HARD.
01:25:52 Margie: Thank you and goodnight.
Exceptional! This one word alone describes the essence of the section of homily 74 that we read this evening. Isaac begins to show us the subtle ways that our thoughts lead us astray. We often cannot recognize sin as it manifests itself and its many forms. Nor can we recognize the action of God and how He seeks to help us escape it and to escape our own pride. We are stiffnecked and we would rather look anywhere else than into our own hearts to understand the reason why we suffer so. Isaac shows us how easily we shift the focus on to others and seek to blame them for our state. However, Isaac tells us it is God who holds out in hope, waiting to see if the afflictions that we bear and the cross that manifest itself in our lives will humble us and set us free. If we would but humble ourselves and allow tears to well up from our heart then God would cast our transgressions into oblivion and raise us up to gaze upon His loving countenance.
Tonight we picked up halfway through letter 31. Saint Theophan begins to lay out more clearly how Anastasia is to give herself over to her yearning for God and to foster it. Above all she must to embrace life prayer. She is to focus on allowing her heart to grow warm in her love and devotion for God. If she is unable to do this by using the prayer books, in an unrestrained way, she is to use her own words and keep them simple. She is to express her basic need for God, thanksgiving for his gifts, and ask for his protection. No more is needed at the moment. She should prepare herself for the time set aside for prayer as well as for the Divine Liturgy by reading the prayers ahead of time and meditating upon them. In this way their meaning will stir up even greater devotion within her heart. She is to memorize prayers to the best of her ability so that they come to her at the moment of need. Likewise, she is to focus on remembering God at every moment while also remembering death. Such a thought will lead her to be careful and to abstain from everything that could possibly poison her life. Pride is to be shunned and she is to make this her primary lesson. Learn this above all, he tells her.
In letter 32 Theophan continues to speak with her about the specifics of the path to a virtuous life. He sets before her the fundamental discipline and asceticism of the fasting periods within the church. He wants her to understand all that is necessary to prepare herself for a worthy reception of the holy Eucharist. She must fast, seclude herself, read and study, repent with all of her heart and with sincere contrition and the desire never to sin again. The Divine Mysteries of Christ are at the heart of our life and Theophan would see her well prepared to receive them.
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00:18:44 The Pittsburgh Oratory: http://orthodoxwayoflife.blogspot.com/2010/03/ongoing-effort-of-fasting-confession.html
00:19:08 Margie: self mastery
00:40:09 Eric Williams: I grew up in that kind of awkwardly motionless Protestant environment. I call those folks the Frozen Chosen. ;) (I can't take credit for that name, though.)
00:56:39 Margie: If you want JOY then you need to put Jesus first, Others second, and Yourself last.
01:19:42 Eric Williams: If I correctly understand the Church Slavonic guide I found, "govenie" sounds like "goh-vyeh-nyi-eh". I'm sure Fr. Ivan would do a far better job. ;)
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Once again we are presented with a beauty untold; that is, until recently when it has become accessible to us in the writings of St. Isaac.
We started this evening with Homily 73. Isaac, in a very brief and focused manner, speaks to us about the reason for embracing the exile of the desert. In doing so, one avoids close proximity to those things that could be a source of temptation and sin. Even being around worldly things can arouse the turbulence of warfare against a soul and allow her to voluntarily be led away into captivity even though no warfare has assaulted her from without. In other words, by living in a world that has become comfortable with sin we can find ourselves with dulled consciences. We may no longer live with a heightened sense of vigilance but give the evil one the advantage of seeing every manner of drawing us away from God. The poverty of the desert, the exile from the things of this world, extricated the monks from transgressions; it freed them from the passions. In a sense, it gave them the ability to run without impediment, to gird their loins and to seek the Lord without hesitation and without condition or limit.
Moving on to homily 74, Isaac gives us a more studied approach of how we deal with hidden thoughts and the actions and behaviors that can help us. We must begin with the study of the afterlife. We must acknowledge the fact that our life in this world is very brief. Having done so we find within ourselves courage and freedom from fear, every danger, and our impending death; for death we know only brings us closer to God. Such a vision of life helps us to patiently endure afflictions. Of course there is always the temptation put before us to return to our fears, to place ourselves once more in the shackles that once bound us. Cowardice can overcome our minds and we can begin to focus upon the body and its health. We become prey to the fear of losing all that the world can offer us. As always, Isaac’s writing is penetrating and it holds up an image of the desire for God that we might not recognize in ourselves. To read Isaac is to be humbled.
Tonight we began reading letter 31. Theophan begins to speak to Anastasia about ways of increasing and encouraging her sense of desire for God and her urgency about the practice of the spiritual life. He could already see that there were those around her who were calling into question her practices. So he begins to speak with her about means of keeping herself focused upon God. She must take hold of the fact that we are not long for this world and we will have to give an account for our life. All of this must heighten the sense of urgency she must have and the weight of her actions. He encourages her to engage in spiritual reading and prayer every morning as a means of nourishing herself for the day; just as a person nourishes herself with food. Such reading does not have to be extensive but just enough to hold within the mind and the heart; to act as a spiritual balm that not only brings healing but also protection. Finally, Theophan speaks to her about keeping watch over all of her thoughts. Fundamentally this is where the ascetical life rests and where spiritual battles are fought. Many thoughts come to us throughout the course of the day. We must be attentive to them and how they affect us; if they do not lead us to God they must be set aside or redirected. He also gives her a simple counsel about keeping a notebook. In this way she will be able to mark down the things that inspire her in order that they might later encourage her when she is struggling. Such a practice also allows one to gauge where the struggle is the greatest and also to see where there has been growth.
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Test of chat during the group:
00:25:21 Eric Williams: When you mentioned watching news first thing in the morning, I was reminded of these wise words: "Let listening to worldly news be bitter food for you, and let the words of saintly men be as combs filled with honey." - St. Basil
00:28:12 Eric Williams: There is solid psychological and neurological research supporting the superiority of handwriting over typing for long-term retention of information.
00:28:23 Wayne Mackenzie: In the Eastern Tradition you are encouraged to have a morning and evening Prayer Rule."
00:29:20 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: … handwriting over typing …. Hmmm very interesting
00:29:58 Jennifer Parisi: Eric, do you have a link to that research? I would like to share it with someone I know.
00:35:47 Eric Williams: A quick search dug this up: "Handwriting shown to be better for memory than typing, at any age" https://bigthink.com/surprising-science/handwriting-memory
00:38:24 Eric Ash: Witness is often better than teaching and always better than arguing
00:38:37 Jennifer Parisi: Thank you 😊
00:52:08 Mark Cummings: I have closer to the 4 thoughts than the 50,000 thoughts
01:03:27 Eric Williams: I find the Jesus Prayer tremendously helpful for diverting my mind from unworthy subjects.
01:04:16 Margie: How about some Gregorian chat?
01:04:18 Mark Cummings: Can we have some specific recommendations on the Russian music
01:04:28 Mary McLeod: Chants from Valaam!
01:04:40 Wayne Mackenzie: When the thoughts are out of control recite the Jesus prayer..
01:06:53 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: YouTube has the Jesus prayer sung by monks in the round I use it in the car on the phone on the desktop etc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXmfvcOU340&list=PLpDitifO6zD8UBi0qUZ5fKYn9HYAzzxWC&index=1
01:08:38 Mark Cummings: Thank you!
01:08:56 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: the byzantine "angelic greeting" known in the west as "Hail Mary" 100 times https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5EaKrnn3_A&list=PLpDitifO6zD8gNGJ0XvCawWSfCk7jGfCF&index=2&t=659s
01:09:37 Wayne Mackenzie: yes I often will recite the Jesus prayer on you tube as I am involved in different acitvites
01:09:58 Consuelo Haynes: Wow those recommendations are wonderful, thank you
01:13:44 Eric Ash: I remember an anecdote I think from Theresa of Calcutta when asked what she prays for said "I don't pray for anything I listen." and when asked what God tells her in prayer said "He doesn't say anything, he listens." That really helped silence in prayer click for me.
01:13:59 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: these two links which I gave are sung in Old Church Slavonic albeit in Russian pronunciation. For Ukrainians like me this is an act of double asceticism: to pray and to hear it "mispronounced" by Ukraine's northern neighbor who is constantly telling us - and the rest of the world - that Ukrainians are nothing more than "Little Russians"..
01:14:56 carolnypaver: Awesome, Fr. Ivan!
01:15:47 Mark Cummings: Love the quote plus the anecdotes
01:16:37 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: Thank you, Eric
01:19:07 Eric Williams: The prompting questions help A LOT.
01:20:25 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: thank you both Erics
01:20:37 Margie: Thank you! Have a wonderful week!
01:20:42 Cathy Y.: thank you!!!
Tonight we concluded the final paragraphs of homily 72. It is as if Isaac is a bell, constantly ringing out to guide us through the darkness of this world and more importantly to draw us away from the wiles of the evil one. We are often oblivious to the subtle ways that the devil will hunt us down; in things concealed, or contingencies lying hidden in certain affairs, or in places.
In the face of this Isaac, the voice in the desert, cries out that there should be no limit to our willingness to toil for the things of the kingdom. We must start off the journey well and with clarity of purpose. We must ever be using our energy in the time given to us to pursue the life of virtue and to traverse the path of the Cross to its end. We must actively drive away from ourselves any kind of thinking that impels us toward repose. Zeal and eagerness must be fostered not in an equal but greater measure than that which we see given to the pursuit worldly glories or even to mere distractions.
We continued our reading of letter 30. Once again St. Theophan seems to impress upon Anastasia the need for decisiveness in regard to her choice to live her life for God. Prayer and the pursuit of holiness must become for her an inviolable law. Despite the fact that she has been raised in a pious and faithful family, there are simply far too many things in this world that hold out the promise of comfort and false hope; let alone the temptation that comes to us daily to make ourselves the center of reality.
In order to free her from the grip of such thinking, St. Theophan emphasizes the importance of the remembrance of death and impending judgment. Such things foster the fear of God. This divine fear that inflames our desire for salvation and our desire for God, is the only thing that frees us from the fears and anxieties of this world. This is not an easy thing to embrace. The traumas of life and the servile fear that form in us a false image of God make us reticent to “enkindle misfortune around ourselves” and rather leads us on a desperate search for worldly, albeit, temporary consolation.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:39:19 Margie: So true about losing sight.
00:49:08 Margie: Sad but true Father David.
00:49:24 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: agreed
00:56:48 Carol: Is it really “fear?” Or is it “urgency?”
01:11:25 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: the fear of the Lord is born from love of the Lord. if I truly love Him I am afraid of thinking, saying or doing anything that would hurt or diminish my love for Him, damage my relationship with Him. And so this is not abject or servile fear of God, as in fear of spiders or some such thing. the Hebrew has two different words one for fear and one for fear of God. I believe the greek does also.
01:11:33 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.
01:12:05 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: Proverbs 2:4-6 Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)
4 if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures;
5 then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God.
6 For the Lord gives wisdom; from his mouth come knowledge and understanding;
01:20:53 Margie: I'm having trouble finding the book
01:22:06 Margie: Thank you!
We continued our reading of homily 72. Isaac presents us with a vision of life and the action of grace that is fierce and beautiful at the same time. The grace of God is constantly present to us and she teaches us and allows us to gain experience through the temptations and trials that we face. She protects us and strengthens us in perfect measure while also letting us know and learn from our own weaknesses. Temptations and trials lead us to cling to God and seek his strength. Weakness comes upon us when self-esteem leads us to think that we are the source of great things in our own lives. We must be taught by hardship, Isaac tells us. It is tribulation and affliction that reveal the most to us in life, that draw us into the mystery of the cross and reveal to us the true nature of selfless love. Like Christ, through our suffering we are made perfect. Gradually we come to desire what God desires and will what He wills.
Ironically, it is desperation that reveals to us true hope. Only when we find no hope in the things of this world and we see its empty promises do we come to embrace the hope that comes to us from the hand of God. It is this alone that offers us comfort and it is this that drives us on to seek the Lord above all things.
Tonight we concluded letter 29 and began letter 30. St. Theophan continues to emphasize for Anastasia how one must prepare oneself to act in the embrace of God‘s grace. One must count the costs, as it were, and be decisive; making an irrevocable choice to pursue the divine flame that offers nothing less than transformation or, more specifically, deification. It is only after this long period of preparation and the casting off of the passions that one is prepared to step forward. But once one has embraced the grace of God, holding nothing back, then one is propelled forward. Grace builds upon grace and one moves from glory to glory.
In letter 30, St. Theophan begins to describe for Anastasia the manifestation of this grace externally and internally. What does it look like when a person follows that desire for God to its end and holds nothing back? Theophan chooses not to write about this himself but rather makes use of Saint Marcarius the Great and his Homilies. God raises the soul up to experience something of His own nature, to taste something of the perfection of Love and the desire to draw others, good and bad, into it. It is the fulfillment of Christ’s call to be perfect as our Heavenly Father is perfect. This is not only a command that has been given to us but a gift that we have received. And this gift is not far away and does not belong to an exclusive few but has been offered to everyone and has been received through the gift of baptism. The hidden treasure that is beyond all value lies within the human heart and we we only need to strike the shovel to immediately begin to see gold and silver of the glories and joys of heaven.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:45:15 Eric Williams: Free food suckered me into the Oratory. Little did I know my soul was going to be fed along with my stomach. ;)
00:47:25 Mark Cummings: What kind of free food are we talking?
00:48:54 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: Ezekiel 3
00:49:05 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: 16 And at the end of seven days, the word of the Lord came to me: 17 “Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; whenever you hear a word from my mouth, you shall give them warning from me. 18 If I say to the wicked, ‘You shall surely die,’ and you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, in order to save his life, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand. 19 But if you warn the wicked, and he does not turn from his wickedness, or from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you will have saved your life. 20 Again, if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and I lay a stumbling block before him, he shall die; because you have not warned him, he shall die for his sin, and his righteous deeds which he has done shall not be remembered; but his blood I will require at your hand. 21 Nevertheless if you warn the righteous man not to sin, and he does not sin, he shall surely live,
00:49:34 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: because he took warning; and you will have saved your life.”
00:57:10 Eric Ash: I think C.S. Lewis had a quote... something involving a bottle of port
00:57:56 Eric Williams: “I didn’t go to religion to make me happy. I always knew a bottle of Port would do that. If you want a religion to make you feel really comfortable, I certainly don’t recommend Christianity.” ― C. S. Lewis
00:58:39 Mark Cummings: Love it
00:58:57 Eric Ash: I knew the other Eric would dig it up
01:13:58 Eric Williams: The commodification and marketing of Christianity brings to mind "The Sacred Canopy: Elements of a Sociological Theory of Religion" by Peter L Berger
01:21:00 Natalie Morrill: Geez, same!
01:22:28 Natalie Morrill: Thank you, Fr. David!
After a long hiatus we returned to our reading of the Ascetical Homilies of Saint Isaac the Syrian. We picked up on page 501, about halfway through Homily 72. Isaac has been speaking about the nature of faith and humility, and how, when they are perfected by the grace of God, they bring us to a place where we are prepared for the experience of contemplation. Let it be noted that it is preparation; it is only by the grace of God that one is elevated to contemplate God as He is in Himself. As we move from the multiplicity of deliberations and thoughts, God brings us to a state of simplicity of mind. We must become like little children, letting go of the limitations of intellect and merely clinging to He who is the Lord of life. It is then that His grace begins to act upon us and reveal to us things both in a manifest fashion and in more hidden ways. We begin to see how God‘s grace instructs us but also protects us from so many evils and dangers. The more that we begin to see this grace active in our lives, the more she reveals to us the hidden things in the ambush of the demons; how they manipulate our thoughts and guide us into a state of agitation and anxiety. We must see this as a temptation not simply as a result of the natural state of our existence in this world. Surrounded by chaos we must keep our eyes fixed upon the Provider of all things. When we do so, all anxiety and fear drifts away and we find ourselves resting in the ever present arms of God.
This is such a timely teaching in an age of upheaval, where men and women have lost a sense of what to hold onto or what offers security and stability. Isaac reminds us with a clear and bold voice that it is God alone that we must trust.
In our discussion of letter 28 and 29 with St. Theophan, we learn that the embrace of the life of Grace is not something that is done by impulse or passively but involves an unyielding decision to give oneself over to the pursuit of it, enkindling the desire for it, laboring to maintain it and helping it bear fruit. We must see Grace as the most treasured thing and most valuable thing we could possibly possess. This involves acknowledging its presence within us, comprehending the value of grace, desiring with all of our strength to adapt our lives to it, resolving to achieve whatever God desires to accomplish through it, and carrying our decision to reality. We must forget the self and have God and his will as our sole desire. This, St. Theophan tells Anastasia, is only the beginning of the spiritual life. Great patience and constancy are needed; for we are involved in a spiritual warfare that extends to the end of our life. We must have the courage to wage the battle at every moment.
Tonight we began by reading the remainder of letter 27. St. Theophan continues to describe the effects of God’s grace upon a person both spiritually and materially. One is transfigured by the grace of God much as Christ was transfigured on Mount Tabor. Theophan gives examples of saints whose visage was transformed when speaking about God or when praying.
At the end of the letter and in letter 28 Theophan moves to consider the effects of our negligence. Our failure to embrace the gift of God cannot be equated to our setting aside worldly gifts. To fail to embrace the grace of God is tantamount to sacrilege. We are abusing the gift of God and rejecting God himself. Too often we allow ourselves to marginalize the life of faith, to treat it with the lack of desire and interest and not consider the consequence. This is something Theophan is unwilling to do. He’s very clear with Anastasia that our eternal destiny is in question. Like the five foolish virgins in the parable we can neglect to stir the grace of God into flame and keep it alight. The bitterness that we will experience when we see that which is most precious and that which has eternal value slip through our fingers cannot be calculated. The voice of the Bridegroom will pierce our hearts with sorrow when we realize his words of greeting are not for us. As a good spiritual father Saint Theophan does everything in his power to speak to Anastasia about the value of this grace - a value that stands above all other things.
Tonight we began reading letter 27. It has already proven to be thrilling in the sense that we begin to see the promise and the action of God’s grace in our life. St. Theophan makes it clear that we must make a conscious and deliberate choice to embrace this grace of God fully in our lives. There is no static position. We embrace grace in its fullness or we fall into lukewarmness and lose this great gift.
What grace promises is truly beautiful - perfect harmony and a share in the invincible peace of the kingdom. In a few short paragraphs St. Theophan shows us exactly what the pearl of great price is - - it is the grace of God and the transformation that it brings to our lives and that endures unto eternity.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:50:01 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/glory2godforallthings/2020/09/15/a-cruciform-providence-3/
00:58:40 Eric Williams: "All your life, you live so close to truth, it becomes a permanent blur in the corner of your eye. And when something nudges it into outline, it is like being ambushed by a grotesque." - Tom Stoppard (Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead)
01:23:54 Eric Williams: Nothing has helped me understand the amazing patience, love, and mercy of God like becoming a parent. As frustrated as I get when my kids don't choose what's in their best interest or in the interest of right or righteousness, imagine how much more frustrated God must be with us and our rebellions! ;)
01:28:06 Mark Cummings: Thank you!
Tonight we concluded letter 26. St. Theophan continues to drive home for Anastasia the importance of actively embracing the grace of God. The more independent she becomes from the pious setting in which she was raised, Anastasia must be ever more cognizant of the need to embrace the grace of God fully.
Our tendency is to live with one foot in the world and one foot in the spiritual life; that is, to be neither pagan and Christian. Our desire for God and for the grace that He gives us can grow cool as we give ourselves over and become sympathetic to what is worldly and secular. In the face of this, St. Theophan warns Anastasia that she is capable of becoming as vain and passionate as anyone who has no faith. What has been given by God must be guarded and protected as the most precious thing of all and our life and work must be subordinated to it.
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Text of chat during group
00:40:27 Eric Ash: Sometimes when I talk to people who have left the church it is often because of the "witness" of those lukewarm habitual Christians who follow the rituals but don't seem to Love Christ or find freedom in God but just see a task master. This is such a good reminder to be aware of our drift towards the world and our own witness.
00:53:17 Mark Cummings: My grandmother had the same "washing machine"
00:53:34 carolnypaver: I wonder if the advent of the washing machine coincided with Soap Operas on TV.
00:55:08 Edward Kleinguetl: "Soap" referred to the washing detergent
00:55:40 carolnypaver: Wow!
00:56:40 Edward Kleinguetl: Washing detergent was advertised during soap operas and, as you can imagine, why. Housewives would be washing ...
00:57:00 carolnypaver: Very interesting…..
00:58:32 Edward Kleinguetl: "Individualism is the greatest weakness in American culture" (Archbishop Charles J. Chaput).
01:04:03 Wayne Mackenzie: We have identity politics in Noth America in part due to individualism and break down of the family.
01:08:21 Eric Williams: Fascinating essay: "Saint Benedict and family life: An original reading of the Rule of St Benedict" by Don Massimo Lapponi OSB (translated by Liam Kelly) A PDF is available for free online.
01:09:36 Scott: https://newsinteractive.post-gazette.com/thedigs/2013/03/18/eucharistic-rally-at-pitt-stadium-attracts-90000/
Photos of the adoration he mentioned.
01:09:57 Scott: And yes, that's Rocco. The Mercedarians do that in Cleveland still.
01:11:05 Sheila Applegate: The processions of Saints is something I love when I visit other countries. I have vivid memories from Nicaragua and Brazil in particular.
01:12:05 Eric Ash: My mother in law lived near an eastern orthodox church which has holy days that the entire congregation leaves the church and processes around it outside during parts of the liturgy. Easter 2019 she participated in an Easter divine liturgy. It was amazing to see her as she connected that this thing she watched the congregation do as an outsider and never dreamed she would be a part, became something she actually participated in.
01:13:02 Edward Kleinguetl: I believe Resurrection Matins and Easter Sunday Divine Liturgy is the most beautiful of all celebrations.
01:13:17 Edward Kleinguetl: Easter Vigil comes the closest in the Roman Church.
01:13:20 Wayne Mackenzie: The Christian message has to compete with many voices
01:18:01 Michael Liccione: St. Peter's in Steubenville is regularly packed to the point where people are turned away every Sunday. That happened to me last Sunday.
01:19:03 carolnypaver: The pastor there told me NO one would be turned away???
01:19:29 Mark Cummings: Saint John Cantius in Chicago had to add masses
01:23:35 Edward Kleinguetl: Which is exactly why the great spiritual fathers say to NEVER trust one's own thoughts.
01:24:15 Eric Williams: The Quakers started out as a Christian sect, but because they have no creed and no definitive canon of scripture, they've demonstrated very well that if you don't stand for something you'll fall for anything. At this point they're barely distinguishable from Unitarian Universalists.
01:25:33 Edward Kleinguetl: Why Cardinal Sarah keeps talking about how we are trying to form God into our own image.
01:25:42 Wayne Mackenzie: Byzantine liturgy is very incarnational
01:27:34 Natalie Morrill: Thank you, Father!
01:27:35 Mark Cummings: Thank you!
Tonight we finished letter 25 and began letter 26. Both begin to describe for us the gift of Baptism and the action of God’s grace in our life. At our baptism the action of that Grace remains hidden. But nonetheless God in His providence acts within us to form and shape the mind and heart according to His will. We are strengthened by the support and prayers of our parents and godparents who continue to form and educate us as we grow.
However, St. Theophan warns Anastasia not to become conceited. She indeed has received the greatest of all gifts and for this she should be forever thankful. Yet it is exactly that - - a gift that is to be embraced and fostered. She must seek to set the spark and the flame of God‘s love ablaze. She must not pity herself but strive to cut away all that would prevent growth and transformation.
In letter 26, St. Theophan uses examples from life such as leaven and dough to describe the character and action of grace in our lives. God‘s grace makes all of our actions grow beautiful and sweet in his eyes. The actions of a baptized person may be exactly the same as one living in the world in terms of externals, but they are animated by the perfect love of God that now dwells within them. The simplest act performed by the grace of God takes on eternal value. Anastasia’s present task, then, must be to strive with her while being to embrace this grace in her life and help it to bear fruit that is acceptable to God. She must increase it and multiply it!
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00:37:38 Edward Kleinguetl: • Abba Lot went to see Abba Joseph and said to him, “Abba, as far as I can I say my little office, I fast a little, I pray and meditate, I live in peace and as far as I can, I purify my thoughts. What else can I do?” Then the old man stood up and stretched his hands towards heaven. His fingers became like ten lamps of fire and he said to him, “If you will, you can become all flame.”
00:46:19 Mark Cummings: We all should celebrate our baptismal day rather than our birthday...even a worm has a birthday!
00:54:52 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: In the East, since one used to receive one's name from the saint being celebrated on the day on which you were born, there arose the custom of celebrating one's "Name's Day" but the emphasis was on one's patron saint not on one's birthday. Since, in the Byzantine tradition, there's a pre-baptismal prayer by which a guardian angel is assigned to the catechumen, that day was called the "Day of One's Angel". Often the two days coincided and so, today, in post Soviet societies, they often forget the "Name's Day" aspect and remember only the "Angel's Day", a rather sad reduction from the original connection to baptism....
01:19:32 Mark Cummings: Thank you!
01:19:39 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: Pope John XXIII: Do what you do....
I think most would agree that tonight‘s reading was both beautiful and jarring. St. Theophan makes it very clear to the young Anastasia that to put on the new life that Christ won for us means to engage in a spiritual battle. Our zeal for the Lord and our desire to overcome vanity and the passions will mean that we must be ruthless in cutting those things out of our life that lessen our zeal for God or potentially lead us into sin. From this Anastasia is meant to understand that there is nothing more important than our relationship with God.
Theophan emphasizes this further in letter 25 and begins to speak to Anastasia about the dignity of the one who is baptized. The gift that we receive in baptism changes everything about us and the quality of all that we do. Every action, every word, every thought, becomes freighted with destiny because every thing now is a reflection of our unity with God and His Spirit dwelling within us. Nothing we do is insignificant. Even the smallest chore done with love and in union with the Spirit endures unto eternity.
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00:11:52 Mark Cummings: Hello
00:13:48 Davrey Jore: Hi Fr. David... Hi Everyone
00:33:29 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: Matthew 10:36 and a man’s foes will be those of his own household. 37 He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38 and he who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
00:36:55 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: Luke 14:25 Now great multitudes accompanied him; and he turned and said to them, 26 “If any one comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.[a] 27 Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple
00:37:37 Eric Williams: When I was confirmed as a Lutheran, there was a lot of emphasis on "down religion" (God coming down to us), which was contrasted with "up religion" (us trying to approach God). Asceticism would probably be regarded by my former fellow Lutherans as "up religion", possibly as a sort of heretical "salvation by works".
00:49:41 carolnypaver: “….that we might not despair, nor become despondent, but with great confidence submit ourselves to Your Holy Will which is love and mercy itself.” ~ St. Faustina
00:54:16 Edward Kleinguetl: That and St. John Chrysostom's treatise "On the Priesthood."
01:01:08 Edward Kleinguetl: I thought it was the Rubicon?
01:07:38 Eric Williams: There was mention of prayers before receiving the Eucharist. This one, by St. Thomas Aquinas, is very good: Almighty and Eternal God, behold I come to the sacrament of Your only-begotten Son, our Lord Jesus Christ. As one sick I come to the Physician of life; unclean, to the Fountain of mercy; blind, to the Light of eternal splendor; poor and needy to the Lord of heaven and earth. Therefore, I beg of You, through Your infinite mercy and generosity, heal my weakness, wash my uncleanness, give light to my blindness, enrich my poverty, and clothe my nakedness. May I thus receive the Bread of Angels, the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, with such reverence and humility, contrition and devotion, purity and faith, purpose and intention, as shall aid my soul’s salvation.
01:07:41 Eric Williams: Grant, I beg of You, that I may receive not only the Sacrament of the Body and Blood of our Lord, but also its full grace and power. Give me the grace, most merciful God, to receive the Body of your only Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, born of the Virgin Mary, in such a manner that I may deserve to be intimately united with His mystical Body and to be numbered among His members. Most loving Father, grant that I may behold for all eternity face to face Your beloved Son, whom now, on my pilgrimage, I am about to receive under the sacramental veil, who lives and reigns with You, in the unity of the Holy Spirit, God, world without end. Amen.
01:10:35 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: Chrysostom's Liturgy: Prayer of priest during Cherubimic Hymn: "No one bound by carnal desires and pleasures is worthy to approach or to draw near You, or minister to You, King of glory. For to serve You is great and awesome, even to the heavenly powers. And yet, because of Your love for mankind - a love which cannot be expressed or measured - You became man, unchanged and unchanging, You were appointed our High Priest and as Master of all, handed down the priestly ministry of this liturgical and unbloody sacrifice. ...
01:10:56 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: … You alone, O Lord, our God, have dominion over heaven and earth. You are borne on the throne of the Cherubim; You are Lord of the Seraphim and King of Israel. You alone are holy and rest in the holies. I implore You, therefore, Who alone are good and ready to listen: look upon me, Your sinful and useless servant; cleanse my heart and soul of the evil that lies on my conscience. By the power of your Holy Spirit enable me, who am clothed with the grace of the priesthood, to stand before this, Your holy table and offer the sacrifice of Your holy and most pure Body and precious Blood....
01:11:41 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: ... Bending my neck, I approach and I petition You: turn not Your face from me nor reject me from among Your children, but allow these gifts to be offered to You by me, Your sinful and unworthy servant. For it is You Who offer and You Who are offered; it is You Who receive and You Who are given, oh Christ our God; and we give glory to you, together with your eternal Father, and your most holy, good, and life-giving Spirit, now and ever and unto the ages of ages. Amen."
01:21:17 Sheila Applegate: One of my least favorite lines!
01:22:19 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: Litany of Humility O Jesus, meek and humble of heart, Hear me. From the desire of being esteemed, Deliver me, O Jesus. From the desire of being loved, Deliver me, O Jesus. From the desire of being extolled, Deliver me, O Jesus. From the desire of being honored, Deliver me, O Jesus. From the desire of being praised, Deliver me, O Jesus. From the desire of being preferred to others, Deliver me, O Jesus. From the desire of being consulted, Deliver me, O Jesus. From the desire of being approved, Deliver me, O Jesus. From the fear of being humiliated, Deliver me, O Jesus. From the fear of being despised, Deliver me, O Jesus. From the fear of suffering rebukes, Deliver me, O Jesus. From the fear of being calumniated, Deliver me, O Jesus. From the fear of being forgotten, Deliver me, O Jesus. From the fear of being ridiculed, Deliver me, O Jesus. From the fear of being wronged, Deliver me, O Jesus. From the fear of being suspected, Deliver me, O Jesus. That others may be loved more than I, Jesus, grant me the grace
01:23:21 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: That others may be loved more than I, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it. That others may be esteemed more than I, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it. That, in the opinion of the world, others may increase and I may decrease, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it. That others may be chosen and I set aside, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it. That others may be praised and I go unnoticed, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it. That others may be preferred to me in everything, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it. That others may become holier than I, provided that I may become as holy as I should, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it. by Merry Cardinal del Val, secretary of state to Pope Saint Pius X from the prayer book for Jesuits, 1963
01:27:05 Natalie Morrill: Thank you Fr.!
What a beautiful group it was tonight. We finished letter 23 and began letter 24. St. Theophan continues to discuss with Anastasia the nature of spiritual zeal and its impact upon our souls. It is the fire that purifies us and it also gives us perseverance and diligence in the pursuit of the things of God.
This zeal leads to a renewal of the mind and a renewal of the spirit by grace. It leads us to renounce our sins and the affairs of the world; encouraging us to seek to make our lives a living sacrifice - holy and acceptable to God.
In letter 24, St. Theophan begins to lead Anastasia into a vision of what setting aside the old person and putting on Christ looks like. It involves a willingness, in love, to give ourselves over to the workings of grace and also to labor for it ourselves. We have been given all that we need to perform the surgery necessary to remove all vanity and passions in the soul. In this we must have the greatest courage and not pity ourselves. God will not force us to take this path but invites us to willingly give ourselves over in love.
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00:44:49 Eric Williams: Also, the Campus Crusade for Christ organization rebranded and now goes by Cru. They might still be around, but under that new name.
00:46:10 Adrienne DiCicco: My sister's in Cru on her campus. I'm a little skeptical, but it seems like it may just be a step in her faith journey.
01:00:23 Wayne Mackenzie: If you have a copy of the Orthodox study bible, the footnote expands on the comments made by Fr, Ivan. Romans 12: 1-2
01:17:50 Daniel Allen: i over analyze everything
01:21:29 Ren's Kingdom of Neatness and Organization: Bless you prison, bless you for being in my life. For there, lying upon the rotting prison straw, I came to realize that the object of life is not prosperity as we are made to believe, but the maturity of the human soul.”
01:25:07 Edward Kleinguetl: Thank you, Ren
01:26:23 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: i have sent the article which I wrote on Romans 12:1 to Fr David.
Tonight we started letter 23. Saint Theophan had just spoken to Anastasia about what it is to rise from the fallen state of sin and what has been revealed to us in Christ. It is for this that we must have a strong zeal and embrace it with true joy.
In this letter St. Theophan maps out for Anastasia the different kinds of zeal. Spiritual zeal is focused on pleasing God and the pursuit of salvation. Intellectual zeal is the pursuit of any number of temporal goods and works. These are not evil but rather a part of life. Yet we can give them disordered attention and energy that takes away from our relationship with God. More dangerous still is the zeal for Vanity and for Evil itself. These must be rejected altogether for they entrench a person in sin and darken the conscience. Zeal is not simply an emotion but rather the fervor of the Saints driven by the grace of God which is the fruit of their baptism. So it must be for us.
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00:44:24 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: The biblical account calls Barnabas “a good man, full of the Holy Spirit and of faith” (Acts 11:24). In the Byzantine tradition when the priest reunites the Body of Christ with the Blood of Christ in the chalice as a sign of the Resurrection, he says "Fullness of the Holy Spirit" as he drops a portion of the Lamb-the Body into the Blood. And then the priest blesses hot water (which the deacon will pour into the chalice) with the words which are intentionally of a double meaning in Greek or Old Slavonic but in English it's either "Blessed is the warmth/zeal/fervor of your "holies" (saints)." and then when the deacon pours it the priest says, "the warmth/zeal/fervor of faith, full of the Holy Spirit." And so the Holy Spirit restores life where there is death, and our risen Lord Himself is the source of zeal/fervor in the saints, ie the baptized. "Without me you can do nothing" John 15:5
00:45:57 Carol Nypaver: Thank you for the insight Fr. Ivan!
01:23:23 Eric Williams: One of the hardest things for me, with respect to maintaining zeal, is separation from fellow faithful, orthodox Christians. Even before COVID-19, it seemed like we were few in number and scattered. I've found this especially challenging as a father. It's hard to raise children in the faith when they're not surrounded by good examples. Those examples, ideally, would be around in every aspect in life, and not just at liturgies.
01:24:15 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: Eric, agreed
Tonight we concluded letter 22 of Saint Theophan to the young Anastasia. Theophan focuses, in this final section of the letter, on zeal for the Lord. God has acted for our salvation and offers us the fullness of His life and love - His grace. He has given us His Spirit to create within us the right disposition to receive His grace.
That disposition is repentance. We see something of the hopelessness of our sin and in that moment we also become able to see and grasp the depth of God‘s love and mercy. Yet, in the face of all this, God awaits our consent. We must yield ourselves to the Spirit’s action. God does not force Himself upon us; love must be embrace freely. This freedom means acknowledging the efficacy of the form of salvation put before us, desiring to be saved and a complete willingness to do in sincerity whatever is asked of us.
This is the path of salvation. When a person sees and embraces this reality an experience of calm comes to them. Once divine grace is established within us, our response, though weak, suddenly becomes all-powerful and knows no impediment and overcomes everything.
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00:42:14 Edward Kleinguetl: For God, all things are possible.
00:49:37 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: Lord, I believe, but help my unbelief. (with a gentle reminder that this is revealed to us in the biblical way, many centuries before rationalism separated that which was meant to be whole. So, belief is not something we do with our cogitating mind, alone. We are to believe holistically with entire being comprised as it is of body, soul (desires, feelings-willpower, emotions and thoughts) and spirit (heart).) This is also how we ought to repent, or surrender to God, etc.
00:51:13 Carol Nypaver: Thank you, Fr. Ivan! So many accuse Catholics of “blind faith.”
00:51:51 Patrick Kiechlin: The Divine Liturgy is so incredibly beautiful.
00:55:49 Wayne Mackenzie: It appeals to all the senses
00:56:53 Patrick Kiechlin: Indeed. It is truly Heaven on Earth.
01:18:42 Carol Nypaver: Sorry—I tried to unmute. What about St. Paul’s conversion? It seemed there was no movement of his will toward the Lord, but was totally the work of God. So——when we pray for the conversion of our loved ones, can such a radical conversion occur without their direct “consent?”
01:21:10 Carol Nypaver: Awesome! Thank you.
01:23:07 Sheila Applegate: A misdirected love that God directed.
01:26:14 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: Paul experienced the Resurrected Lord and not as an intellectual idea but revealed in His Body the Church. Acts tells us Paul was secluded for three years after. I like to think he hits the scrolls to reevaluate his thoughts in light of his experience.
01:26:52 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: a crucifixion of self as it were
Tonight we began reading letter 22 of St. Theophan to Anastasia. He begins to speak to her about the redemptive uplifting a fallen man. Yet once again the Saint works very hard to help her understand the fundamental truths behind the life that she has been called to live. Without understanding these things all else will be wanting. In particular he wants her to understand that it is the Holy Trinity that is active in the restoration of man. God has revealed Himself fully to us; He has drawn back the veil and allowed us to see the depths and intimacy of Love.
This restoration is something far greater than the forgiveness of sins; rather it is being drawn into the very life of the Holy Trinity. The Holy Spirit sets things in motion within us and prepares us to be that faithful dwelling place of God. Yet, this gift must be paired with the revelation of the Good News of the mercy and self-emptying love of God; that while we were yet enemies of God, He gave us His only begotten Son in order that we might have life and have it in all of its fullness. A person must be struck with fear and awe at this reality. They must be shaken to their very foundation. Only by seeing our complete unworthiness of this reality and the depth of our sin can we also come to see the preciousness and the value of the gift that we have received. Only then will we give our lives over fully - as God has given Himself to us.
Tonight we read the 21st letter of the Saint to the young Anastasia. In many ways this is the most touching and beautiful of letters and yet also the most simple in its content. St. Theophan lays out for Anastasia the path that God has opened for us to reunion. He want her to understand that everything has already been set before us. We do not, and must not, seek to fashion a path for ourselves or devise a plan of our own hands. It is His yoke and burden that we must take upon ourselves because it alone is perfectly fit to lift us up and heal us. God has given us all. Better yet, He has given us everything – the perfect love of His only begotten Son and the gift of His own Spirit. We are given something far greater than the original innocence of Adam and Eve. We are given a share in the very life of God and all that He asks is that we receive it with humility and gratitude. Our responsibility is simply to embrace His will and providence and to remove any obstacles that may be an impediment to the work of this grace in our lives. If one were to sum up this letter it would be “All is Grace” - grace that must be received with a childlike faith.
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Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: regarding eastern Christian use of the word "passion". In 375 AD, Archdeacon Evagrius of Pontus (c. 346-399) developed a comprehensive list of eight evil assaulting “thoughts” (Greek: logismoi). Through the centuries this was systematized in the East by various saints, mostly St. Maximos the Confessor (590-662). The assaulting “thoughts” act on and overcome people, becoming habits or compulsions of thinking, feeling-willing, and desiring over which we end up having little or no control. At this point, the “thoughts” are said to have become “passions” (Greek: pathеа). A “passion” (from pathos in Greek) is any deadly obsession that seems to be beyond our ability to control, let alone to recognize, in ourselves. Thus, a passion is any spiritual “cancer”, or “death-bearing” and “soul-corrupting” sin. The Greek word “pathos” can also mean - and be translated as - “suffering, desire, energy, zealous activity, craving”, depending on its context.
Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: In the East, the passions are a distortion, deprivation or misdirection of the intellective, appetitive and incensive powers of the soul. See Tables at: http://ocampr.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/the-christian-ascetic-tradition-on-dejection-and-despondency-david-holden-2004.pdf. The “passions” enslave us and thereby are the chief cause of our sufferings. In liberating us from sin and the effects of sin, our Lord delivers us from our passions as well as the pain which they cause.
Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: St. Gregory the Dialogist (Pope of Rome from 590-604) would revise Evagrius’ list to form what, in the West, is today more commonly known as “the Seven Deadly Vices”, or Sins. [Also in the West, the current edition of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, for example §1767, uses the word “passion” to indicate something that is morally neutral, merely a strong feeling or emotion, and thus not sinful - unlike the way that the word “passion” is used in the East.] Those Eastern Church Fathers, whose works were written between the 4th and 15th centuries and collected and published in the Philokalia-Добротолюбіє, list “by name a total of 248 passions and 228 virtues” (see English language edition, page 205, Volume 3).
Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: St. John “of the Ladder” (Climacus, 579-649) was of the opinion that although the passions (пристрасті) were not directly created by God, they are still naturally good, except for akedia-listlessness, despondency. In Step 26, 156, of his Ladder of Divine Ascent, he writes: “Nature gives us the seed for childbearing, but we have perverted this into fornication. Nature provides us with the means of showing anger against the serpent, but we have used this against our neighbour. Na¬ture inspires us with zeal to make us compete for the virtues, but we compete in evil. It is natural for the soul to desire glory, but the glory on high. It is natural to be over¬bearing, but against the demons. Joy is also natural to us, but a joy on account of the Lord and the welfare of our neighbour. Nature has also given us resentment, but to be used against the enemies of the soul. We have received a desire for food, but not for profligacy.”
Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: It is when we use our free will to misdirect the passions from the good towards the evil, that we allow the passions to gain control over us. This, in turn, is how the thieves, or demons, are empowered by us to rob us of eternal life. A helpful passage on this latter point regarding what demons do, is to be found in the homily at: https://www.holycross-hermitage.com/blogs/articles-sermons/sermon-for-the-sunday-of-st-john-climacus-2017
Tonight we concluded letter 20, where the Saint leads the young Anastasia to a deeper understanding of the nature of the Fall and the illness that arises from it. Again St. Theophan reflects with her on the experience of Adam and Eve. They turn away from God in a way that is blasphemous and hostile. They deny His benevolence and seek for themselves self-rule; embracing the illusion that they can become gods. St Theophan tells Anastasia that God will not violate their self-rule but rather allow them to experience the consequence of their own freedom. They become self-absorbed and for the first time the phrase “I myself” is used. The order of life and the order within the soul is perverted. The passions become, as it were, inbred and take over the soul like a horde of approaching enemies. We must have no illusion that this is anything but an illness. Furthermore, we must understand that we’ve been overcome by alien tyrants and we set aside our dignity for the worst kind of slavery. We have set aside hope and joy for what promises only darkness and sorrow.
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Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: The Struggle With Passions by I.M. Kontzevich
Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: describes the stages from first being a thought to becoming a passion or vice.
Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: you can access it at http://orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/struggle.aspx
Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: the official catechism of the Ukrainian Catholic Church, Christ Our Pascha identifies five stages but numbers and discusses them slightly differently than I M Kontsevich above. this catechism can be accessed at
http://catechism.royaldoors.net/catechism/ see paragraphs 788 thru 795
Wayne Mackenzie: That we might spend the rest of our life in peace and repentance, let us ask the Lord. from the Divine Liturgy of St John Chrysostom
Mary McLeod: Aquinas also describes the punishment for the fall very similarly (Summa II-II): But inasmuch as through sin man's mind withdrew from subjection to God, the result was that neither were his lower powers wholly subject to his reason, whence there followed so great a rebellion of the carnal appetite against the reason: nor was the body wholly subject to the soul; whence arose death and other bodily defects. For life and soundness of body depend on the body being subject to the soul, as the perfectible is subject to its perfection. Consequently, on the other hand, death, sickness, and all defects of the body are due to the lack of the body's subjection to the soul. It is therefore evident that as the rebellion of the carnal appetite against the spirit is a punishment of our first parents' sin, so also are death and all defects of the body.
Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: in his work On the Incarnation St Athanasius the Great was of the opinion that humanity would devolve figuring out new and better ways of sinning, ways for the body and soul to rebel against the God-intended ascendency of the spirit.
Wayne Mackenzie: Gender Ideology is a good example.
Joe and Larissa: Bl Fr Alexander Schmeman. - life is about how we deal with what we are dealt
Tonight we read the 19th letter of the Saint to the young Anastasia and the beginning of the 20th. Theophan finally comes to the point of describing for her the seed of inner confusion that we experience as human beings, our ancestral sin. We struggle with a disordered state, a disease, that has become deeply rooted within us and given rise to the worst of destructive forces - the passions. It is not natural! In other words, God has not created us in this fashion. Our forebearers took a path that led them away from God and, as it were, casts the gifts that He had bestowed upon them back in His face. They treated God not as benevolent and loving but as an obstacle to their happiness. The loss was immeasurable. Theophan wants Anastasia to have as her deepest conviction the fact that this disorderliness is not what God intended. She must fight against the view that there is no hope for a cure, that there is no hope for the dignity of the humanity to be restored. This must be our fight as well. The passions destroyed our consciousness of self and freedom. In the face of this we must make our one goal in life to abide in God in every way and to rejoice in Him alone.
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00:47:43 Mary Schott: Is it not "natural" because the loss of preternatural gifts?
00:52:24 Eric Williams: If you want to read a saint who doesn't make *anything* sound easy, I highly recommend Ephraim the Syrian. :)
00:59:46 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: I think that "loss of preternatural gifts" is a western term or concept. Generally speaking Eastern Christian authors speak or write from the point of view that sin makes us sub-natural whereas holiness is natural to the human condition. One has to translate in the back of one's mind ... in the west the term "supernatural" is used where Easterners use "natural", and the western "natural" is "sub-natural" in the East.
01:08:45 Joe and Larissa Tristano: Fr John, agreed, amartyia, Greek for sin means to “miss the mark” - the passions are birth defects of the soul
01:08:53 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: ...and so, in the East, a "sub-natural" human being is thus "sub-human" or "inhumane", and the holy person is "natural" and "human".
01:09:10 Joe and Larissa Tristano: Yes! Christ being THE Human!
01:09:19 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: exactly!!!
01:15:09 carolnypaver: Holy gifts to holy people….
01:21:18 Mary McLeod: Thanks everyone!
Tonight we concluded letter 18 to the young Anastasia. The Saint works very hard to help her understand what the “one thing needful” for us is as Christian men and women. We must subordinate all things to the spiritual and in doing so this brings about a kind of harmony within the person; a harmony of thoughts, feelings, desires, undertakings, relationships, and pleasures. Simply put the St. Theophan tells us, this is “Paradise”. It is to live in the peace and the love of the kingdom. It is this that we must guard and protect and we must learn the ways that such harmony can devolve into disorder. While there can be external influences that disrupt our lives, Saint Theophan warns Anastasia this sympathy for the things of the world already exists within us in a subtle fashion. The disorder and confusion that we experience within is fed by the turbulence of the world and then once again re-enters the human heart. But make no mistake, he states; it begins within and with a predisposition toward sympathy with the things of the world. It is the nature of the interior disposition and its origin that Theophan will discuss in the next letter.
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01:04:21 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: just a reminder: "how to form an orthodox Christian conscience" would help us to understand the things that St Theophan and his contemporaries would have taken for granted as familiar to members of a a devout Christian family.....
http://www.pravmir.com/how-to-form-an-orthodox-conscience/#ixzz3e6KPm2PA
More than anything, letters 16 and 17 reveal to us the heart of St. Theophan. He wants the young Anastasia to be free and her heart to be filled with the peace, the complete peace of the kingdom. Before he teaches her anything about the life of prayer or establishes any rule for her to follow, he wants her to grasp the fact that God is part of her life at every single moment and everything that she does, no matter how small, so long as it is done in love, is pleasing in the eyes of God. How different our lives would be if we could even live this for a single day and taste the sweetness of this peace! How full our lives would be if we could engage even in the most menial tasks with the freedom of love, eternal love!
We continued this evening reading letter 13 to the young Anastasia. Theophan again wants her to understand that we do not live our faith out in isolation, but rather in a radical communion with God and with the angels and Saints. Beyond that he wants her to understand that nothing is hidden from the eyes of God or from the eyes of the saints and angels. Our souls take on the quality of the facts of our life. Virtue and love bring brightness to the soul whereas sin brings murkiness or complete darkness. Theophan tells her this not to frighten her but rather that she might understand her true dignity in Christ. By virtue of her baptism she is an heir to the kingdom of heaven and has access to the treasure of God’s grace. It is this reality that is bestowed upon her by virtue of her baptism and it is this reality that must come to bear fruit in her life through seeking God at every moment; seeking above all to embrace his will. Theophan would seek to free us all from what the Fathers call prelest or spiritual delusion. We have an enormous capacity to lie to ourselves and to seek to protect our own sense of dignity and self-esteem independent from God. We must overcome this illusion by humility - by understanding that we are known in truth and seen with the eyes of love eternal.
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Chat texts from the group:
01:08:51 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: The term “prelest” is an Old Church Slavonic word (Greek: πλάνη - plani) which has come into English usage for lack of a precise equivalent, although it is often translated as "spiritual delusion," "spiritual deception" or "illusion," accepting a delusion for reality in contrast to spiritual vigilance and sobriety. Prelest carries a connotation of allurement in the sense that the serpent beguiled Eve by means of the forbidden fruit. Apart from its spiritual context, the word in Old Church Slavonic is often used in a positive sense of something charming, "lovely"; hence, in modern Russian it means: “Beauty”. People often struggle to understand what "prelest" is and how one would know if this is a problem in their life? What to do about it? That's the whole point – one doesn't know. But the Church teaches us practical measures to ward off this state. First, there’s having a good priest/confessor/spiritual director. Second, we practice the virtues: humility, etc.
01:09:23 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: Third, we practice attentiveness to our own thoughts and feelings that offer temptation, which is called being neptic (sober and vigilant) or practicing nepsis (sobriety, vigilance). We are warned to beware of people who are very keen on directing or teaching others spiritually, as if they consider themselves to be experts. We avoid speaking or acting im-pul¬sively. We stay away from any desires, thoughts or feelings that make us agitated. We are to be¬ware of substituting dog¬ma¬tic certitudes in place of practicing the faith (for example: knowing all about a service or a custom, but never actually participating in it or allowing that participation to challenge our core to repentance: changing our desires, thoughts and be¬ha¬viors to bring them into line with God’s knowledge). We are strongly fore¬warned to be¬ware of anyone who claims to be humble and to beware of the sin of pride, as if thinking that we have found the truth while others around us have yet to arrive at what is called “our level”.
01:09:57 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: Con¬verse¬ly, we are not to think that we are so bad a sinner that we are beyond forgiveness. The story is often told about a young convert who was so agitated about everyone else being in a state of prelest that it was he himself who became so obnoxious, overbearing, and neurotic, that he failed to notice that in the process he himself had become a liar, cheat and manipulator. So our Byzantine spiritual tradition tells us not to worry if someone else strikes us as being off track. Focusing on the sins of others is a surefire way of succumbing to prelest-self-delusion ourselves.
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Link to download the "cheat sheet" for understanding St. Theophan's anthropology in Letters 5-11
We continued reading and discussing the 12th letter of St. Theophan the Recluse to the young Anastasia. He works very hard to show her that the illness that we struggle with is universal but it is also something that is willfully contracted. We all act in an unnatural way when we fail to subordinate the intellectual and carnal aspects of our being to the spiritual. Theophan makes it clear to Anastasia that there is nothing inherently sinful or evil about the intellectual or carnal but sin comes into play when they take supremacy over life in the Spirit and so make the self and our desire idols. We become less than human.
When we give ourselves over to the thoughts and desires associated with these aspects of ourselves we are easily drawn into sin and it can quickly drag us down like a whirlpool. Often it is very difficult to overcome such sin when it becomes habitual, or becomes a passion. In fact Theophan tells the young woman that sometimes we can remain fixed in the passion permanently.
However, Theophan assures Anastasia that even the most dedicated individual struggles with irrepressible thoughts. One should not become disheartened or despondent in the struggle. Anastasia has already made the first step in acknowledging the illness and the need for healing. What is most important now is that she guards her virtue and that she remains ever vigilant in subordinating all things to the spiritual life.
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Referenced in the recording, the text offered to the group from Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky by way of chat during the group is copied below:
Generally speaking, there is the western Christian definition, for example CCC 1773, where “passion” is a morally neutral concept. In reading St Theophan we need to remember his background wherein there is Eastern Christian definition, for example COP 795, where “passion” is always a vice, one of the capital sins - something that is cancerous and death bearing to the spiritual life. St John Climacus was of the opinion that each of the passions was originally something that God made as good and our sin perverted its purpose. Anger was given that we may hate the evil one and sin, but we use it to hate one another. St. John of the Ladder was of the opinion that only akedia had no good origin with God.
COP is Christ Our Pascha the official catechism of the Ukrainian Greco-Catholic Church.
In the East, all sin is missing the mark, and so death-bearing, we do not distinguish between mortal and venial sins.
The link to the English version of COP is available for reading online on the St Josaphat Eparchy's web site. You can also purchase it there.
In the East we also distinguish stages from getting from a thought to a passion. Search the internet for “The Struggle With Passions”, by I.M. Kontzevich. COP has a simplified version in paragraphs 790 and following. These stages of temptation are provocation, conjunction, joining, struggle, habit and finally passion. Technically, sin is born somewhere between conjunction and joining.
Here is a short summary of Kontzevich's description: In “The Struggle With Passions”, by I.M. Kontzevich,Also COP, 790, we read:
1. PROVOCATION (SUGGESTION) прилог, приложитиCOP, 791By impression, memory or imagination a thought, if it is not invited consciously and voluntarily, and if a person is not negligent about it, presents itself to us. This is the touchstone for testing our will, to see whether it will be inclined towards virtue or vice. It is in this choice that the free will manifests itself.
2. CONJUNCTION (sochetanie-поєднання) and 3. JOINING (slozhenie-складання) In COP, 792…2 and 3 are called (internal conversation)In short, the thought is conjoined to the feeling and they in turn are joined to the will.The thought produces a feeling. This determines whether the thought stays or leaves. If our feelings do not “hate” the thought but “like” the thought, the thought then enters into our consciousness. We begin paying attention to it. We begin delighting in it. AT THIS POINT there is a conjunction-поєднання between the thought and me. But sin does not yet exist. In order to cut off the sequence of notions, to remove it from my consciousness, and to terminate the feeling of delight, I need to distract my attention. I must actively and firmly resolve to rebut the images of sin assailing me and not return to them again. But, if I become inclined to act upon what the thought tells me and to get the satisfaction of partaking of it, then the equilibrium of my spiritual life is DESTROYED. My willpower is now cooperating with the thought. This is called: JOINING-складання. “This state is already "approaching the act of sin and is akin to it" (St. Ephraim the Syrian). There comes the willful resolve to attain the realization of the object of the passionate thought by all means available to man. In principle, the decision has already been made to satisfy the passion. Sin has already been committed in intention. It now remains to satisfy the sinful desire, turning it into a concrete act.”
4. STRUGGLE Christ our Pascha: 793: “A thought that has penetrated the heart through conversation is difficult to dismiss. A person cannot be rid of it without struggle and effort. The Word of God and prayer assure victory in this battle” Kontzevich: “Sometimes, however, before man's final decision to proceed to this last moment, or even after such a decision, he experiences a struggle between the sinful desire and the opposite inclination of his nature”.
5. HABIT- звичка, (Assent-згода, зволення)Christ our Pascha: 794: “acceptance of an evil thought, which is equivalent to defeat in battle. By making an evil thought one’s own and deciding to make it a reality, a person has already sinned, even if the evil intention is not [sic: be] acted upon.”Kontzevich: there is still “an unstable vacillation of the will between opposing inclinations” and “a sinful inclination has not yet deeply penetrated man's nature and become a constant feature of his character, a familiar element of his disposition, when his mind is constantly preoccupied with the object of the passionate urge, when the passion itself has not yet been completely formed.”
6. CAPTIVITY (Passion-пристрасть) Christ our Pascha: 795: “The final stage is the actual passion. This is a state of captivity that results from sinful activity. A person given over to passion experiences a constant inclination towards evil. The inclination can become so powerful that a person loses the strength to resist, becomes addicted to evil, and a slave to passion.”Kontzevich: “It is no longer the will that rules over sinful inclinations, but the latter rule over the will, forcibly and wholly enticing the soul, compelling its entire rational and active energy to concentrate on the object of passion. This state is called captivity (plenenie-полон). This is the moment of the complete development of a passion, of the fully established state of the soul, which now manifests all of its energy to the utmost.”
This evening we continued our reading of homily 71. St. Isaac continues to define for us the essential virtues that lead us to the end of our course. Tonight, however, he not only describes for us and defines for us the nature of prayer and of humility as virtues, but he lays out for us the specific Asceticism of prayer and humility; how we exercise ourselves in faith to set God above all things - most of all above our egos. There’s an absolute quality to this response to God that Isaac puts before us. We have to have both feet within the kingdom, otherwise it is like we are unequally yoked in regards to our desires. We cannot desire God and the things of this world. To do so, even in the most subtle of ways, is to diminish our love for God and fall onto a path of mediocrity. God would have us completely and desires to be the object of the full desire of our hearts.
Tonight our discussion focused upon the conclusion of homily 69 and the beginning of homily 70. Both present us with an exquisite description of the nature and action of God‘s grace upon the soul; how we experience an alteration in the mind and indeed a struggle with our passions, with temptations and our falls only to be lifted up by the grace of God again. Isaac presents us with a vision of God who is intimately involved in our lives and seeks to draw us from glory to glory into the depths of his own life. He does that, however, within the context of our humanity and understanding that we must be drawn deeper through our struggles to see and comprehend the truth as he seeks to make known. God does not free us from the spiritual warfare and the struggle with temptation; rather He thrusts us into its depths to bring us to greater repentance and draw us back to himself and makes us steadfast in the faith, hope and love. Our mind must die to the world and to the passions and be transformed by grace. The passions don’t die: we must die to self and sin and put on the mind of Christ. Grace, Isaac tells us, carries us in the palm of her hand. God will never abandon us in the struggle but is ever present to keep us from falling into despair.
We picked up again this week with homily 66. Saint Isaac presents us with perhaps the most formative part of his book. While this might seem to be an overstatement, St. Isaac speaks with such clarity about the key aspect of the eastern Fathers’ understanding of the human person - the nous - the organ of spiritual perception. St. Isaac lays out with striking clarity not only the nature of the nous but how it is to be formed and purified. Only through the ascetical life and the ordering of the appetites and the passions toward God is the nous, the eye of the heart, purified in such a way that it allows for true discernment. Aided by grace, our capacity to perceive the truth the God increases as well as our capacity to embrace it. Isaac is very quick to warn us that this spiritual perception involves the whole person. It is not simply a philosophical or intellectual perception of truth, a mental vision. It is asceticism aided by grace that allows us to contemplate the truth and so develop a greater awareness of God. This awareness of God gives birth then to love and love is strengthened and emboldened by prayer.
Tonight we continued our reading of homily 65. Isaac begins to speak with us about the fruit of stillness. One of the primary gifts of stillness is the healing of memory and of predispositions over the course of time. The more that we are faithful to the grace that God extends to us, the greater the fruit that we experience as well as the desire for stillness. Isaac warns us that we must not concern ourselves with what is foreign to God. Our minds and our hearts must be set on freeing ourselves from the senses by being engaged in unceasing prayer. We must have a love in keeping night-vigil for the renewal of them mind that it creates. This is true of every aspect of the ascetical life. We must engage in it with an exactness. Our love for what the Lord has given us and our desire to protect what is precious should lead us with a manly courage to engage in the spiritual battle. Cowardice is often present in the spiritual life and we find many ways to rationalize our negligence and laziness for fear of giving ourselves over to God completely. This we must overcome and strive to enter the kingdom and be willing to sacrifice all to attain it.
Isaac’s thoughts take a turn as we approach the end of Homily 64. He moves from the love of silence to the Remembrance of Death. These are not disconnected thoughts. Rather Issac reveals to us that our remembrance of death and the fading of life in this world leads the heart to repentance. We are not long for this world and so must not remain idle in our pursuit of God and the things of God. Repentance allows us to cross the borderline into the hope of the Kingdom where death loses its sting and the life that is to be ours comes into focus. Death can be then greeted with joy: “Come in peace. I have been waiting for you and preparing for you.” The remembrance of death draws us not into despondency or to cling to the things of this world but rather draws us to the warmth of God’s embrace and fills the heart with hope. One becomes a lover of silence then because it gives birth to repentance and becomes for us also a foretaste of the enveloping communion with God to come.
Tonight‘s reading of homily 64 was something of a labor of love. Following Isaac’s train of thought was more difficult simply because language fails and more often than not the capacity to grasp the reality spoken of is limited for so many of us. Isaac began to speak of the ineffable hope and joy that belongs to one who has embraced the path of repentance and the renunciation of the things of this world. He begins to describe for us the fulfillment of all desires the frees one from anxiety about this world and the future. To turn from the passions, to be completely focused upon Christ, to see the world through the lens of his promises fills the heart with an indescribable joy. The ascetical life, the battle with demons, the inevitable reality of death, leave no trace of fear within the soul.
“Love silence above all things”, St. Isaac tells us. However, this is not a mere pious expression but rather one of the deepest truths of human existence. Silence is the place of encounter with God that reveals to us His beauty and our poverty at the same time. Tonight Isaac showed us the path to this Holy Silence. Its starting point is our willingness to force ourselves to remain in it and to pray that God shows some part of what is born of it. It is a discipline that offers us a taste of divine sweetness but also leads to a flood of tears that arises out of the pain of our sin and our perception of the beauty of God that amazes the soul. This silence fosters an internal stillness that begins to transform the mind and the heart. The deeper that one enters into it the more one comes to reflect the divine. Isaac speaks of the holy Elder Arsenius, who having achieved a level of perfect silence, merely through his countenance gladdened the hearts of those who encountered him without ever speaking a word. This encounter inflamed within them the desire for God and the desire for the ascetical life.
We continued our discussion tonight of homily 64. The group only considered two paragraphs over the course of the hour. But the discussion was eminently practical. Isaac challenges us to look at many things that we take for granted and asks us whether or not these things lead us to God or to be mindful of God. Do we understand the value of silence and prolonged silence? What does sleep mean for us and how do we enter it - prayerfully or distractedly? What do we do when we cannot sleep, do we turn our minds and our hearts to God, do we pray or do we distract ourselves with other things, like television or simply our own thoughts. Have we ever thought about breaking the night to pray? Isaac along with the other Fathers show us how this experience of praying at night allows us to be more wakeful during the day, in the sense of being vigilant about our thoughts and mindful of God.
We continued our reading of homily 64 where Isaac draws us ever more deeply into the heart of the spiritual life. He begins by emphasizing the fact that what God does within the human heart and the transformation that He brings about is far greater than anything that we might do in our own eyes or in the eyes of the world. To receive life from God is greater than our capacity to give or support life or edify others. Humility raises us up to acknowledge the truth about God and ourselves. In this sense humility provides something greater than any worldly knowledge we might possess. Furthermore, the humble heart and humble body allows one to draw close to God and to experience His peace. The more distant we become from God, the more agitated we become and begin to experience an internal disintegration. It is for this reason that Isaac tells us that we must love humility and not love the things that we seek to adorn ourselves with in the world. What could be more valuable than possessing the love and the mercy of God? What could be more valuable than adorning ourselves with virtue? This virtue, however, he warns us must not be the kind of posturing that we foster in the world that allows us to embrace a condescending spirit towards others. Such a virtue betrays a sickly conscience. We must always and forever see things through the eyes of God.
Tonight we began reading Homily 64. It is 25 pages long and through it Isaac presents us with a vision of the ascetical life and the essential elements of it. He begins this evening where Jesus began in his own preaching - with repentance. Repentance, Isaac tells, us is the mother of life. In itself this is a striking statement and one that would be worthy of long consideration. Repentance is not just sorrow over a particular act but rather a way of life. With every aspect of our being we are to turn toward God, ordering all of our senses and desires and appetites towards him. We are to simplify the thoughts in order that we might gaze upon Him in a undistracted way. Through this gaze we come to experience a divine wisdom, love, and peace. Grace enlivens compunction within the heart and the living water of tears cleanses and purifies in order that we might gaze upon God with clarity and love. Isaac teaches us that mortification brings life; that dying to self and sin allows us to experience He who is our love and our destiny.
We’ve come to a very special homily of Saint Isaac – homily 62. Here he begins to guide us along the path of the spiritual life and battle. He opens our eyes to what the struggle holds out to us - to live in the love of God and to know the consolation He alone offers. The natural man, as it were, experiences only fear; in particular fear of death. The one who develops some knowledge of his own passions and begins to struggle with them experiences growth and health but continues to sit in fear of judgment. But the one who has wholly given his life over to God not only loses that attraction to the passions but also loses all fear. He begins to taste the love of God and His sweetness. This is what draws him forward. There is nothing greater than joy in the Lord and nothing more to be desired the knowledge of him.
Tonight we read the conclusion of homily 60 and all of homily 61. These few pages were some of the most beautiful that we have encountered. Isaac captures for us not only the meaning and purpose of afflictions, trials, and temptations but reveals to us the presence of the love of God within them. We never suffer in isolation and anything that we endure is permeated by the grace of God. To understand and see this clearly only increases a person’s desire for God as well as their willingness to embrace the cross as it comes to them without fear or anxiety.
Tonight we continued our reading of homily 60. It is perhaps the most striking and challenging of passages that we’ve considered. Isaac draws us into the very heart of the mystery of the cross and causes to view our identity from an eschatological dimension. In other words, he invites us to view our life in light of eternity. The path to this is narrow and difficult. It turns our view of the world upside down. But in and through it we are shown in a striking way the beauty of the love of God and the destiny that is our - sharing in the Divine Life.
Tonight we continued reading homily 59. Saint Isaac seeks to draw us into the mystery of the cross as God’s path for us. It is not to be feared or avoided but rather seen as the path of love that unites us to God and His redemptive work. In fact, St. Isaac tells us that it is the distinct way that God brings us benefits, helps us to grow in virtue. It is also how we come to imitate the saints in their love for and embrace of the cross. Far from being sullen about the trials that we experience, we should gradually come to see that God permeates everything that comes to us in this life. Nothing is outside of his providential care. We know we are under God’s care when he perpetually sends us griefs. The path of God is a daily cross.
Tonight we continued reading homily 56. Isaac begins to guide us through a reflection on the nature of affliction and how it leads to the perfection of virtue and love. This is something that is often very difficult even for Christians to embrace. The cross always remains a stumbling block for those of the world and, in so far as it is a stumbling block for us, we are not fully alive in Christ. We cannot live in an unholy alliance with the world. Christ alone must be our joy and all idols must be set aside, most especially our own ego. Isaac uses the example of the natural virtue of philosophers. Even through discipline of their intellect and will they could achieve a high level of heroism and virtue. As Christians we must understand that we cannot rationalize our sin as being due to weakness of will or tell ourselves that we are not capable of living the life of the gospel. Naturally God has created us for Himself and now he has given us the grace to share in a godly life. He has called us to deification.
Tonight we continued our reading of homily 52. Saint Isaac begins to speak to us about the various degrees of knowledge and starts in particular with the knowledge that cleaves to the love of the body. Such a knowledge comes only through the senses and Saint Isaac calls it “common knowledge”; a knowledge that is naked of concern for God and sees the self as the sole source of providence. It is driven by a person’s concern and care for the things of this world and for their own safety and security. Every innovation and invention has its roots in anxiety and fear of losing what one possesses. Beyond this it leads to judgment of others as standing in opposition to what one desires. Everyone becomes a threat of one kind or another and one becomes driven to seek positions of emotional power in relationships and control. Faith, however, fosters humility and the true knowledge of our poverty as human beings and our need for God‘s grace and mercy. We are but dust and we must hold on to He who is the Lord of life and the governor of history. In God alone do we find peace.
Tonight we began a new homily, Homily 52, where St. Isaac expounds upon the various degrees of knowledge and in particular the distinction between earthly knowledge and faith. He leads us down a path that is often difficult for people in their sin to understand - that knowledge and faith are opposed. Now this may seem rather extreme. But what St Isaac is trying to teach us is that earthly knowledge is always going to be confined by the very real limits of our intellect and understanding. It often arises out of and gives birth to anxiety; for earthly knowledge must always seek to control the realities that we face as human beings, to try to manipulate nature. Yet at the same time we know very well that we can never free ourselves from what frightens us the most; death, sickness and tragedy. We feel driven to work toward greater efficiency and authority over creation, but can never reach that end. Faith alone open our minds to the experience of God and His eternal love and compassion. It opens us up to the possibility of that which is not confined by the limits of this world. At the same time we are filled with the confidence in the providential love behind this that we are freed from fear and anxiety.
Tonight we continued our reading of Homily 51. We picked up with Isaac’s list of observations showing us the nature of discernment and how important it is in our relationships with others and for our engagement of the world around us. Things often are not what they seem and so the gift of discernment is of great value in the eyes of the Fathers. It allows us to see how we often rationalize certain worldly behaviors, how we domesticate the gospel, and how we constantly seek to place boundaries around and limits to our understanding of love and mercy. The characteristic and distinctive element of Isaac‘s writings is his perception of the nature of God‘s mercy and what that means for the Christian way of life. At one and the same time he compels us and challenges us to rise above are limited understanding and to walk by faith and also reveals to us the height and the depth of God‘s love for us. Each of us stands in a unique relationship with God of intimacy and of unbonded love and Mercy. No one can provide us with faith and love; only we as individuals can pursue that relationship. As one western Saint put it - you are either a whole saint or no saint it all. We cannot approach God‘s love and mercy with half measures.
Continuing with homily number 48, Saint Isaac speaks to us of the essential place of asceticism in the spiritual life. We must seek in every way to allow the passions to be transformed by the grace of God and through discipline of mind and body. Only in this way will we be able to experience something of the lasting joy and peace of God and the Kingdom. Through our senses we are in a constant state of communion with and receptivity to the world around us. Yet our sin makes us vulnerable and our vision of the things of the world become distorted. Conscience becomes malformed and so good appears to be evil and evil appears to be good. Only by being dead to life in this world, that is, dead to our attachment to the things of this world and our own desires can we be free to desire and love God. Ease and idleness are the very destruction of the soul and, St. Isaac tells us, injure the soul more than demons. Through our negligence we open the door for temptations to freely enter and so we darken the soul.
We continued our reading of homily 48 of St. Isaac the Syrian. St. Isaac begins to describe how we must set aside our past life. Above all we must seek God and to love virtue and hate sin. In our pursuit of virtue we must always guard our hearts against vain glory; attributing every good and perfect gift to God and God alone. The moment we see ourselves as the source of virtue we become like a ship crashing into the reef. Destruction is sure to follow. We must not even trust ourselves in the sorrow that we experience in the face of our sin. We must realize that such sadness can simply be rooted in our sense of shame rather than our love of God and desire for conversion. The impact of God’s grace must be all-encompassing; transforming our speech, our manner of thought, our way of life and our senses. Others must see the radical change in our countenance and our actions. As Christians we are not meant to fit into this world.
We continued our discussion of homily 48, in particular St. Isaac’s reflection upon fraternal correction. So often our understanding of such correction involves a spirit of vengeance and the desire to humiliate another or to take retribution. Can we say, though, that our attempts at fraternal correction are like that of God’s? It is the Cross that leads us to repentance - that reveals the depth of our sin and the depth of God’s love. Do we correct through showing others greater love, by making ourselves more vulnerable and more generous towards them?
Tonight we began reading homily 46 of St Isaac the Syrian’s Ascetical Homilies. We come to a beautiful passage in his writing that speaks to us about where our strength comes to live the life that we’ve been called to as Christians. Isaac begins by discussing the purification of the eyes of the soul. It is through these eyes that we are able to behold the hidden glory of God concealed in the nature of things as well as to behold the glory of His holy nature. Isaac ties this to the importance of repentance. We must ever be seeking out the mercy of God in order that we might grow in His grace. It is upon this path of repentance that we are brought to paradise, which is the love of God. What Adam lost through disobedience and pride we can regain through obedience and humility. So long as we remain attached to our sin our time in this world will be one of great labor and strife. Love however frees us from labor and toil for it raises us up into the very life of God. This union with God comes through receiving He who is the Bread of Life. It is at the altar and when nourished upon the bread of angels that we are made strong.
Tonight we concluded Homily number 42 of St. Isaac the Syrian which focuses on the trials and afflictions that come both to the humble and the proud. Saint Isaac makes the distinction between the two and the fruit that each produces. Afflictions in those who are humble produce the fruit of patience. Whereas afflictions in those who are proud awaken the need for repentance. In many ways it is a deeply challenging Homily; so much so that St. Isaac feels compelled to say at the end “do not be angry with me that I tell you the truth. You have never sought out humility with your whole soul.” Our tendency is to look at affliction, temptations and trials in a punitive fashion; Whereas the Fathers seek to help us understand the medicinal and healing nature of such things and to see in them the promise of joy and ultimately deification.
Tonight we read Saint Isaac’s homily 41. It is a rich explication of the workings of the human mind and heart. St. Isaac shows us how it is that we are drawn into sin. He makes it clear that our natural appetites and desires are not the source of sin but rather our tendency toward excess and the weakness of our will. When the appetites are well ordered there is peace within the human person. But when we give ourselves over to negligence, conceit or slothfulness the passions are enlivened and then we are drawn into sinful behavior. St. Isaac directs us in the last part of the homily to the experience of tribulation and affliction. The wisdom of the fathers is that affliction awakens us to our poverty and our need for God’s grace and healing. God will allow us to experience affliction in order to humble us and draw us back to himself. It is through such affliction that repentance is often born.
Tonight‘s group was challenging as always. Saint Isaac begins to draw us into the heart of the gospel and the embrace of the cross. We must be willing he tells us to endure afflictions. We cannot draw near to Christ crucified without them or grow in righteousness. There is no static position in the spiritual life. Truly speaking there is no spiritual life but only life in Christ and a single hearted pursuit of the Kingdom. The world beguiles us; constantly trying to pull us away from the narrow path; ensnaring even great ascetics. We must keep before our eyes the brevity of life and come to love the Lord and our souls so much that we also come to hate sin. Furthermore, we must study the scriptures to rouse ourselves to faith and increase our fervor. This alone gives rise to greater faith and desire for God.
We picked up this evening with Homilies 36 and 37. Once again Isaac speaks to us of the importance of the Ascetical life and how it is the foundation of our sanctification. The ordering of the passions through tears, prayer and solitude are key as is humility. What Isaac seeks most of all in these Homilies though is to open our eyes to the wonder of God’s love and His desire to draw us into His life. Isaac wants us to see how this love permeates all things and in seeing it he wants to stir our desire for God. This Life and Love are greater than all things worldly and so we should freely and without fear be willing to sacrifice all for it.
At tonight’s group we read two exquisite homilies from Saint Isaac the Syrian: Homilies 34 and 35. Both speak to us about the essential Ascetical nature of Christianity and the fruit of the Ascetical life. The ordering of the passions, the bearing of affliction, the study of the Scriptures and the Fathers, all create within the heart a yearning and desire for God. In this pursuit, humility is the key virtue, the mother of virtues, that fosters in the soul an ever increasing love for God and joy. This Joy, Isaac tells us, is perceived by the world as a holy madness. At group’s end, however, we are left simply to echo the sentiment of Isaac - “May God grant us also to attain to such derangement.”
We picked up this evening about midway through Saint Isaac’s Homily 25. St. Isaac has been speaking about the beauty of the solitary way of life and the constant called to intimacy with God. In the sections considered this evening Isaac warns of the pitfalls solitaries often experience. As one is separated from the false self and the ego diminished one experiences the full vision of the poverty of their sin and the darkness it brings. The self is left to walk in the darkness of faith to rely only on the mercy of God. The temptation is to shrink back from this intimacy and knowledge of God or to seek worldly and sensible consolations. Worse yet one might fall into despair having been stripped of all worldly consolations but not seeking rest in God. This is by far the most pitiable state of man.
Isaac presents this all as a prelude to calling us to live out our lives in Expectation of the promise of life and eternal love that come to us through Christ. To seek the Kingdom above all things and to desire the things of the Kingdom frees us from the net of despair and fosters an invincible form of long suffering. Come what may one lives in and through hope.
Homily 22 and 23 bring us to the denouement of the preceding Homilies. The pursuit of stillness and the purification of the faculties of the soul prepare the soul to be raised to the state of Theoria - to experience God not in light of his operations but in accord with the nature of his being. It is silence in all things and beyond articulation. St. Isaac ultimately describes it as a state beyond and above prayer. One enters by grace into the treasury. Every human device becomes still because inadequate and one simply tarries long, for the Master of the House has come - the Bridegroom has arrived.
We continued reading the 17th Homily of St. Isaac the Syrian which focuses on establishing a "Rule" of life for beginners in light of Hesychasm and Philokalic Spirituality as a whole. Isaac shows how every aspect of our life must be transformed by the grace of God. With a holy genius, he reveals the healing of soul that must take place. Every interaction with others, every emotion, can be a means of seduction and so must be considered with radical honesty. We must possess a willingness to reflect upon things such as laughter, the familiar and lingering gaze upon another, and encounters with the opposite sex from the perspective of their impact upon the spiritual life and the vulnerability that arises out of our sin. This is never a solitary pursuit. A solidarity exists between each of us and thus a responsibility for one another's salvation.
In Homily 17, St. Isaac begins to lay out a "Rule of Life" for those seeking to live chastely and in a way pleasing to God. Chiefly this means showing restraint and wisdom in regard to every aspect of life: sight, speech, attire, food, alcohol, etc. Thus, discretion is put forward as the most important of all the virtues - the ability to discern between good and evil. Purity of heart and purity in action is essential; as is setting aside all egoism. Indiscriminate familiarity in relations with others must be avoided and a proper respect for boundaries in relationships and in daily interactions is essential. This is not fastidiousness but rather an acknowledgment of the power of the senses, desires, appetites - indeed all that is human. All must be purified and transformed by the grace of God.
Last night we reflected upon Homily 16 of St. Issac the Syrian. It is a beautiful exhortation to let go of our attachment to the world and the things of the world, to let go of the security and false hope they promise. Isaac encourages us to cling only to Christ who is our salvation and source of healing. The path to healing and joy is repentance. The sacrifice we may make in renouncing the world pale in comparison to both the immediate and ultimate end such renunciation promises - purity of heart and deification. Even the deep sorrow of compunction and the tears shed over our sins, carry within them the joy of renewed intimacy with God.
The foundation of all that is good, St Isaac the Syrian tells us in Homily 8, is the knowledge of one's own weakness, realizing the need for God's help. It is the Mother of humility and the birthplace of deep and abiding prayer.
From such prayer comes all good things to be found for the spiritual life. It is the refuge of help, light in darkness, a staff of the infirm, medicine in sickness and a sharpened arrow against spiritual enemies. The more one prays the more one comes to treasure the gift and to cease pondering vanities. One learns to crave God and to seek Him out constantly. In His compassion God allows us to be humbled - to correct and to heal. Temptations and afflictions become profitable because they purify the soul of pride and also teach the soul to fight and remain in the arena with fortitude and courage. Thus, in all things we are to be grateful and we must acknowledge that the trials we experience are the fruit of negligence and laxity. Trials come to awaken us to the urgency of the moment, to jolt us out of our complacency and to teach us that every moment is freighted with destiny. We are temples of God the Most High and we must not take such a reality lightly or hold the grace we receive as cheap.Last evening we picked up midway through Homily Six where St. Isaac takes up the topic of the vision of the divine in the Kingdom. Such vision and its nature is predicated on the individuals degree of perfection and its gifts. Yet, Isaac is quick to remind us that there is no division amongst us and the experience of God despite how this experience is perceived. There is no disunity or division in heaven and no comparison of gifts. Each delights in the experience and continues to be drawn into the fullness of God.
Following upon this, St. Isaac would have us understand that there exists only Gehenna and Heaven and no other state. It is foolhardy to propose an in-between state that is somehow greater than Gehenna but not yet the Kingdom. Such a notion speaks of an individual's hope that the one can live this life without a sense of urgency rooted in our ultimate end. Every moment is freighted with destiny because every moment is an opportunity to love - an opportunity embraced or set aside. To propose anything less is to foster false hope as well as mediocrity and lukewarmness.
A rather lengthy discussion ensued about the differences between Eastern and Western spirituality; in particular the use of discursive mediation and the use of imagination among Western writers and the avoidance of it among the Eastern ascetics. While largely a part of our spiritual patrimony those in the West have not been catechized in the Ascetical theology and practice of the East and the understanding of the active life as being rooted in the purification of the passions and the development of unceasing prayer. The understanding of the Church as a hospital and a place of healing and Christianity being an Ascetical religion has largely been neglected in recent generations as well as its impact on our understanding of liturgy, religious art and life as a whole.
In a wonderful discussion of the end of homily five and the beginning of homily six, we lingered over what St. Isaac describes as the aim of our conduct: "to be courteous and respectful to all. Ans do not provoke any man or vie zealously with him, either for the sake of the Faith, or on account of his evil deeds; but watch over yourself not to blame or accuse any man in any matter. For we have a Judge in heaven who is impartial. But if you would have that man return to the truth, be grieved over him and, with tears and love, say a word or two unto him; but do not be inflamed with anger against him, lest he see within you signs of hostility. For love does not know how to be angry, or provoked, or passionately to reproach anyone. The proof of love and knowledge is profound humility, which is born of a good conscience in Jesus Christ our Lord...".
We are to win over souls not with anger or hostility or with argument, but rather with a genuine love for the other and a desire for their well being. We should grieve over the sins of others and not use them as an opportunity to berate or condescend.
Isaac continues to revolve around the virtues of humility and purity of heart in Homily Six and how they take root within us. He warns that God will allow us to experience the fruit of our negligence and the sorrow that is born of sin in order to draw is back to Himself. We must understand that asceticism without a heart truly consecrated to God is wasted.
We continued discussing a beautiful section of Homily Five where St. Isaac develops his thought on the establishment of purity of heart and the virtues necessary to help it take root deeply. Practicality in our approach to daily circumstances must be set aside. Rather we must patiently endure the rebuke of others, insults and even false accusations. The ego must be set aside and there must be a willingness to experience humiliation. In the end we must let go of the illusion of our goodness and the demand and expectation of justice in this world; rather, we must cling to God and God alone as the source of identity and hope. A lengthy and spirited discussion ensued.
In this beautiful section of Homily Five, St. Isaac speaks of how ever-present and close God is to us through his angels and in his actions on our behalf. Why would we be anxious about anything, he asks? We have a God set on our salvation, who does not abandon us in our sin but makes use of every opportunity to raise us up. We must not let anything steal the peace that comes to us from this knowledge. Rather, we must mortify ourselves and never let any opportunity pass us by to serve another or give alms; for in doing so we comfort "His image" - we console Christ Himself in the suffering poor.
God makes use of everything in His Providence to raise us out of sin - He administers sicknesses in body for health of our soul and allows temptations and trials to come to raise us out of negligence and idleness. He orders all things for our profit and in this we are to learn that God alone is our deliverer. We are to use our life in this world for repentance so that we can come to share in our eternal inheritance.
Afflictions spur us on and lead to remembrance of God. It is this remembrance of God that creates a connectivity with Him and draws down His mercy. "Remember God that He too might always remember you."
Isaac reminds us to seek help before it is needed. That is, "before the war begins, seek after your ally; before you fall ill, seek out your physician; and before grevious things come upon you, pray, and in the time of your tribulations you will find Him . . . " Faith must be fostered throughout the course of our lives and our relationship with the Lord allowed to deepen. It is in this that confidence in the spiritual life comes. Fear and destructiion comes from neglect.
St. Isaac once again teaches us that we must fully and wisely engage in the spiritual battle - fighting on the right battlefield and making use of the right remedies to heal wounds. He warns us never to treat any sin as slight; for ignoring any sin will eventually make it our master.
Above all we must not be overly confident in our own strength but rather trust in divine providence and the manifestation of that providence in God's angels. They are always there interceding for us, revealing our enemies and fortifying us in the struggle. They show us how close God is to us.
In the final paragraph of Homily Four, St. Isaac exhorts us to die to all things and the doings of the world that give rise to the passions. He acknowledges that there is a a kind of madness to this as seen from a worldly perspective and that reality gets turned on its head. But it is only when we trust to the Lord by embracing this path fully that we will experience the sweetness of spiritual inebriation. Though difficult, he encourages us not to lose hope for the mere movement of toward God and the mere expression of desire for holiness brings with it a flood of grace and mercy.
Homily Five begins by reminding us that we have received all that we need through the revelation of nature and the scriptures to guide and direct us in the spiritual life; especially the reality of our own mortality. Death gives rise to the question of the meaning of our lives and what path we are going to pursue. We cannot, however, approach these realities and think that we can stand still or refrain from offering any response. "Whoever does not voluntarily withdraw himself from the passions is involuntarily drawn away by sin." There is no static position for us as human beings. We must withdraw from the causes of the passions and set ourselves toward the good; realizing that God honors not wealth but rather poverty of spirit, not pride but humility.
In the spiritual battle, we must engage "manfully", that is, with courage. We must not doubt God is our Helper in the good work otherwise we will be scared of our own shadow. If we hope in Him, however, we will experience Him as one who manages our "household", that is, our heart and sends His angels to strengthen and encourage us.
Never hold any sin to be slight. To love God is to hate evil and our sin, no matter how grave or small in our eyes. And having made any strides in the spiritual life, it must be seen as mere fidelity and obedience to what is commanded of us. Pride must have no place within us.
Sin must be fought and healed with the right remedies. Lack of chastity cannot be healed by giving great alms and fasting does not overcome avarice. In place of the loss of sanctity God requires sanctification. Lack of chastity must be restored to purity.
Isaac puts forward a vision of renunciation rarely conceived of by the Christian - involving the setting aside of all things internal and external that draw us away from God or leave us with a false view of the self. Everything pales in comparison to seeking within the soul the mystery of blessedness which is of the future age.
Last night we considered the proper measure of discretion needed in ascetical pursuits; dedicating your soul to the work of prayer; pursuing the life of solitude with those who share your desire; the importance of reading in stirring the heart to contemplation; the necessity of almsgiving and the willingness to live with scarcity. We discussed implications of Isaac's for those who live in the world and pursue purity of heart.
In this section of the 4th Homily Isaac warns: "Do not take it upon yourself to teach others while still in ill health; rather consider yourself ignorant and always a novice - preferring humility, holiness and purity to all things. Guard against becoming mere vendors of words and arm yourself with the weapons of tears, fasting and the study of scripture and the Fathers.
Last night’s reading from St. Isaac the Syrian’s 4th Homily was extraordinary. As is so often the case, one is left with the feeling that there is no going back to a lesser vision of the faith and ascetic life. He warns us not to sacrifice our freedom, the freedom of simplicity, by enslaving ourselves to the things of this world. We must not live our lives to support luxury and ease and so make ourselves “slave of slaves”; that is, slaves to our passions and senses. Humble living is to be met with restraint in speech and love of silence. We are to constrict our thoughts and reduce distraction in order to seek contemplation above all things. To stand before God with a pure heart to better than all things - even all acts of charity. Care must be given not to gain the whole world and lose our souls in the process. “It is more profitable for you to attend to raising up unto the activity of your cogitations concerning God the deadness of your soul due to the passions, than it is to resurrect the dead.”
We began Homily 4 where St Isaac introduces us to the importance of Renunciation and the fruit it produces in the soul. We are to wean ourselves from the things of the world in our search for the divine.
Fleeing the ease of this age and freely embracing the suffering and humiliations we begin to understand and live in accord with the standard of the Cross. The mercy we show toward others is to be the mercy of Christ - nothing less.
What does it mean to pray "lead us not into temptation"; how can we treasure the life of the soul above all things and avoid laxity? We must look to the zeal of the Saints, the living icons of faith and learn from them not to fear affliction.
St. Isaac calls us in this homily to abandon the small things, to spurn the superfluous in favor of pursuing the pearl of great price. We are to live as those who are dead in order that we might be alive to God.
This, in turn, must shape our prayer. We are not to ask for what is worldly or base but only what is honorable. We are to ask for what is heavenly; seeking the Kingdom and its righteous and above all thirst for the love of Christ.
Only then will we be able to cast off the temptation to flee our afflictions; for it is through them that we enter into the knowledge of the truth and purity of heart is solidified.
We picked up on page 133 of the text where St. Isaac begins to describe Purity of Heart. Through guarding the mind and the senses, one can achieve a level of purity, but it is often fleeting because of our tendency to return to our sins through repeated exposure to that which is impure in the world. Lasting Purity of Heart is achieved only through affliction; since deep and prolonged affliction leads us to let go of our attachment to the world and ourselves and cling to God alone who is our life.
In the struggle for purity, fear precedes love. Obedience to God and the practice of virtue is its beginning. Eventually the love of God incites us to desire the doing of good. Spiritual knowledge comes only after such virtue has been achieved.
St. Isaac continued to guide us to a clearer understanding of the Passions and in particular they are contrary to the nature of the soul that has been created for holiness and virtue. Lengthy discussion ensued about the place of asceticism in the lives of all Christian men and women. Regardless of our station in life we are to embrace the grace of our baptism and strive to overcome the Passions. A false clericalism exists that claims that those in the single or married state are not called to radical holiness. The best belongs to everyone not simply to a select few.
St. Isaac begins homily three by making an argument that the passions are not natural to the soul. The soul by nature is pure and virtuous. Its contranatural state is to be moved by the passions that arise from the sense and appetites of the body. It is then in a state of illness. There is a distinction, I believe, that Isaac is making between desire and the passions. Desire for God is not the same as being passionate as is so often described in popular conversation. We wrong attribute and project onto the soul things that are not proper to it in its natural state.
A rather spirit discussion arose about seeking a life of dispassion in the world. Is desert living and the struggle appropriate and possible for those living in the world? What discipline is needed to live distinctively as Christians in the world?
In a magnificent closing to Homily Two and beginning to Homily Three, St. Isaac in a short few paragraphs lays out for us the types of passions and their nature and how a soul determines growth in the spiritual life. Measure your way of life by what arises in your thoughts. It is only with toil that the soul enters understanding of the wisdom of God and if she becomes still to the world and the cares of life; for then she can come to know her nature and what treasures she has hidden within herself. She will be lifted up twoard God and filled with the wonder of God; knowing the living water of the spirit that bubbles up within the soul. As the senses become more confined, the soul becomes more open to the contemplation of God.
The impact of sloth on the soul is often neglected and its significance minimized. St. Isaac the Syrian warns that without harsh tribulations of the flesh it is difficult for the untrained youth to be held under the yoke of sanctification. We must be willing to take upon ourselves the cross of the pursuit of virtue before sharing in its glory. Whenever the soul becomes heedless of the labors of virtue, he is inevitably drawn to what is opposed to them and thus becomes deprived of God's help and so subject to alien spirits. Every man who before training in the afflications of the cross completely and pursues the sweetness and glory of the cross out of sloth and for its own sweetness, has wrath come upon him. He lacks the proper wedding garment - the healing of the infirmity of his thoughts by patient endurance of the labor that belongs to the shame of the cross. A man whose mind is polluted with the passions of dishonor and rushes to imagine with his mind and ascend to the divine vision, is put to silence by divine punishment. "And he was speechless. Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’"
Theoria is rooted in virtue and becomes the receptacle and house of the knowledge of God. It is in the body that we must pursue virtue and so we must engage in the rigors of asceticism. We are not angels but rather fallen human beings who must purify the eye of the heart for the perception of the divine mysteries.
St. Isaac then begins to clarify the understanding of the word world. The world is collective noun applied to all the passions. Great care must be given in separating oneself from the world and with humility we must understand that depeneding on our state we may not perceive all the passions that hold us in their grip.
Where is spiritual joy to be found? What does it mean to be a lover of virtue? How does one show mercy to those who have fallen? Where does sloth begin? These are the fundamental questions St. Isaac the Syrian begins to address in Homily Two.
In a few rather difficult paragraphs we are instructed not to become overly focused on the experience of the Kingdom and what it will be like. While it might be something that in some measure can be known noetically, it is not like our experiences in this life. Our focus should rather be on the pursuit of virtue and purifying the nous. The good things of heaven are incomprehensible and we must not let thinking about them become a distraction for us.
St. Isaac then moves on to clarify something about the attitude that we must have as we seek to grow in virtue and overcome vice. We must come to see that often hidden within valiant struggle is still the desire for the vice. The sign that one is a lover of virtue is expressed through the willingness to endure all manner of evil and suffering to maintain it with joy! The pure heart remains unconfused and unmoved by the "flattery of tantalizing pleasures." Sin must no longer have any attraction for us. Isaac also adds that if we lose the ability or free will to sin due to certain circumstances, i.e., illness, we will not come to know the true joy of repentance. Absence of sin does not mean the presence of virtue. All of this is a challenge to halfhearted approach to the spiritual life.
When faced with another's sin, we must seek to cover their shame and support them in their repentance so long as we don't place ourselves in jeopardy in the process. We must not voluntarily make trial of our minds but engaging sin directly with lewd reflections that can tempt us.
The practice of virtue for the young is always accompanied by affliction in order to be kept them under the yoke of sanctification. When prayer and religious services are neglected then sloth has already taken hold. And the moment one turns from God's help, he easily falls into the hands of his adversaries.
The thread that connects the thoughts of St. Isaac the Syrian's second homily is thankfulness to God. How we receive the gifts of God has great significance. One need only think of the story of the ten lepers in the Gospel. Only one returns to give thanks to the Giver for the healing he received. Lack of thanksgiving is akin to dishonesty, St. Isaac states. It shows that one does not grasp the true worth of what one has received and so not worthy themselves of receiving something greater. With the eyes of faith, one must grasp the generosity of the healer, even if the cure is painful. To fail to acknowledge such goodness or generosity or to resist the gift only increase the torment of the affliction. If we receive what the Lord gives us with true gratitude - whether painful or consoling - He will not fail to pour greater graces upon us for our salvation. Lacking such an understanding of things, God's gifts seem small in one's eyes - thus making one a "fool".
In our times of trial and failure we are to remind ourselves of times when we were filled with zeal for the Lord so as to stir our souls in to flame once more and awaken them from their slumber. Likewise we are to remember the falls of the mighty in the spiritual life, so as to encourage us when we have fallen that we might arise with confidence in the Lord.
Why spend so much energy pursuing the things of this world that turn to ash when the Kingdom of God is within you? Be a persecutor of yourself and do not pamper the body. Drive the enemy before you. Be peaceful and do everything you can to maintain your peace. Avoid everything that may distract or agitate and so hinder communion with God. Be diligent in seeking the treasure of the Kingdom that lies within you.
After a brief introduction to St. Isaac and his times, we began reading and reflecting upon his first homily on "Renunciation and Monasticism." In the Syriac, the first six homilies form a unit with one title "On the Discipline of Virtue" - hence the opening sentence of this homily - "The fear of God is the beginning of virtue, and it is said to be the offspring of faith."
This first homily seems to sow the seeds of many of the principal themes that will be developed throughout the book.
Virtue is sown in silence. As Christians we must seek to collect our thoughts and prevent them from wandering into distraction. Faith frees us from the preoccupation with the self and heals us of the malady of isolation; it allows us to transcend the self in order to see God and neighbor and so love them. It is allows us to see that every moment is freighted with destiny because every moment is an opportunity to love.
After nearly 2 3/4 years we finally came to the final few paragraphs of Cassian's last Conference (24) on Mortification - and O how fitting and beautiful a conclusion!
Cassian and Germanus had been questioning Abba Abraham about the possibility of returning to their homeland and living under the support of their relatives. After he reveals the subtle illusions hidden behind their desires, Germanus presses Abba Abraham for a "complete" explanation of the Lord's teaching:
The Lord tells us, "My yoke is easy and my burden is light." Yet, often the prophets express that the opposite to be true. Such a view, Abba Abraham explains, arises out of obstinacy, lack of confidence and faith; as in some sense does Germanus' question.
Remaining in our passions, the delights of the flesh turn upon us like tormentors. When we abandon the royal road, we make living the Gospel burdensome; whereas for those who take up fully and in true faith the yoke of Christ remain unmoved by every trial.
Our ruin is clinging to delight in this present life and our tendency to blame God because we are crooked and perverse. It is not the lazy, the negligent, the lax, the fastidious or the weak who seize the kingdom of heaven but rather the violent - those who exercise a noble violence upon their own soul and who snatch it away from the fleeting pleasures of this life.
Only life in Christ brings with it the strength, virtue and hope of Christ and makes it our own!
Once worldly cares have been stilled and virtue acquired, Abba Nesteros tells Cassian and Germanus that an assiduous program of reading the Bible must be undertaken. Reading though brings with it the danger of pride and consequently Abba Nesteros tells them that humble discretion must be exercised. He suggest the memorization of Scripture - in fact, perhaps, surprising to modern ears, the memorization of the entire Bible. Scripture is put forward here as the subject of continual mediation.
Spiritual matters are not to be spoken of lightly; nor without experience behind them. Our one desire should be to seek to be the spouse of Christ and to allow our hearts to be shaped fully by His Word. Holiness leads to the deepest knowledge and we must avoid relying simply on human wisdom and rhetorical skill. Likewise we must set aside all daydreaming about worldly literature and the exercise of the intellect, reason and imagination and make Christ our lasting treasure; understanding that in Him we lack absolutely nothing.
Finally, when speaking of the mysteries of God, our words should be directed especially to those who know the bitterness of life, whose hearts have been crushed by the weight of their own sin - those who know their poverty and so can truly be nourished and healed by the Word.
The group took up Cassian’s eighth conference – listening once again to the wise counsel of Abba Serenus. This conference treats of demons in themselves and their origins. In particular, the question is raised: “Were they created by God, in all their variety, specifically to wage war against humankind?”
Serenus begins with some lengthy preliminaries about the interpretation of Scripture and about the possibility of understanding it both historically and allegorically. From there, he proceeds to affirm the goodness of everything that God created and hence those angelic beings that were created before the foundation of the visible world and that eventually fell came to be called demons. As far as their variety is concerned, the demons either maintained in hell the hierarchy that they originally had in heaven or imitated those ranks after the fall. Lucifer fell “a first time by pride, for which he deserved to be called a serpent, and a second fall followed as a result of envy.
A rather lengthy discussion ensued about the eternality of God and His foreknowledge of the Fall of angels.
The elder Serenus clarifies for Cassian and Germanus that the evil spirits, although capable of working in a kind of temporary accord, do not act in harmony with each other. Rather, a spirit must set out by itself to attack the mind in such a way that if it departs vanquished it gives it over to another spirit to be attacked more vehemently. Not all evil spirits are as powerful or fight with the same ferocity and with beginners and the weak only the weaker spirits are paired off in battle. The picture Serenus paints is of constant and intense warfare that only grows in its intensity with growth in virtue and holiness. The individual must learn to fight relentlessly and seek to completely defeat the enemy; developing a hatred for sin. If the power of demons seem blunted in our day in comparison to the early days of the anchorites it is most likely due to our negligence having made them milder and made them disdain to fight as they did against the more accomplished soldiers of Christ. This kind of a battle is used often by God to purify the soul of even the slightest sins; he chastises the ones whom he loves and scourges every son he receives in order to perfect them.
The group considered the final paragraphs of Conference Six; reflecting in particular on the effects of diligence and negligence on the spiritual life. Cassian’s elder reminds him and us that we should call no person blessed until after his or her death. Virtue acquired by the grace of God and asceticism must be preserved with the same concern and effort with which it was obtained. Spiritual carelessness is like a leaky roof through which there are tiny leaks of passion that penetrate the soul. Left unattended they weaken the structure of the virtues and afterward they pour in a heavy shower of sinfulness.
As we began the introductory material of Conference Seven on Demons we considered the modern tendency to psychologize spiritual afflictions, labeling them as such, and how this weakens the soul. It often leads one to excuse oneself (ex causa); that is, free themselves from the charge of the spiritual warfare that is necessary and from the desire and the intensity of mind that would lead them otherwise to reach out for God and His help. Cassian reminds us that the demons’ knowledge of the secrets of the mind is not infallible; it is instead a clever deduction from our observable behaviors.
St. John describes this spiritual danger in these words: "Fear is danger tasted in advance, a quiver as the heart takes fright before unnamed calamity. Fear is a loss of assurance . . . it is a lapse from faith that comes from anticipating the unexpected."
As we labor to ascend to God (understanding that prayer is both the way of and the end of the ascent) we must prepare ourselves for the test of prayer. The first battle is getting to the place and time of prayer. This is what St. John talked about in Step 19: overcoming sleep, getting out of bed (or staying out of bed) and actually forcing ourselves to attend to the time of prayer. In Step 20 he talks about the next part of our struggle in prayer - alertness.
We are all familiar enough with the urges of gluttony. But perhaps we have not stopped to fully consider the spiritual dangers of gluttony. This is something St. John spends a great deal of time discussing. His analysis is very helpful, for he opens up to us the interconnectedness of the spiritual life. St. John expresses the teaching of the Fathers in this way: "the belly is the cause of all human shipwreck."
Why? For two reasons: first, a gluttonous lifestyle feeds the passions which are inherent in man. Unrestrained eating habits spill over into an unrestrained lifestyle. The reason for this is clear: "Gluttony is the prince of the passions." St. John gives several examples. If you struggle with unclean thoughts, remember: "The mind of someone intemperate is filled with unclean longings." If you struggle with talking too much, remember: "The tongue flourishes where food is abundant." If you struggle with a lack of repentance, remember: "A full stomach dries up one's weeping." If you struggle with sexual sin, remember: "The man who looks after his belly and at the same time hopes to control the passion of fornication is like someone trying to put out a fire with oil." Of course, these are just a few examples of many. The point which St. John is making may be summarized as follows. The passions with which you struggle are energized by your gluttonous habits. Gluttony feeds your passions. Fasting takes away their nourishment.
The nature of the spiritual life is that all passion are interconnected. We cannot allow just one passion to be unrestrained. This is especially true of gluttony. If we are gluttonous we will be overwhelmed by other passions as well. And what is true in a negative way is also true in a positive way. If we struggle with gluttony and gain some victory, we also gain victory over our other passions.
But gluttony is not only dangerous because it unleashes our passions. The Fathers also teach that gluttony is dangerous because the demon of gluttony is the front man for other more dangerous demons. "You should remember," counsels St. John, "that frequently a demon can take up residence in your belly and keep a man from being satisfied, even after having devoured the whole of Egypt and after having drunk all of the Nile. After we have eaten, this demon goes off and sends the spirit of fornication against us, saying: `Get him now! Go after him. When his stomach is full, he will not put up much of a fight.' How seldom do we consider this when we are moved to eat. We have been taught to pamper our bodies and submit to their ever demand. Very few of us, however, question what spirit may be behind these desires.
FALSEHOOD
Throughout the Ladder John Climacus discusses the logical progression from one vice to another. And so it is with the vice of falsehood. It arises out of undisciplined chatter, talkativeness and foolery. Falsehood, or lying, John states, is the destroyer of charity and perjury is the denial of God himself. Thus, he tells us, we must not be fooled into thinking that lying is a minor offense. In reality, it is a sin "above all others."
The effects of one who lies are not restricted to himself, but have the consequence of leading others into sin. Through their ability to deceive, and provoke laughter in doing so, they often distract others from their spiritual pursuits and dry up their tears of contrition. Therefore, John argues that we should seek to separate ourselves from such people, or, when appropriate and helpful, to offer fraternal correction with charity.
To combat such a vice we must foster a genuine fear of the Lord and the judgement He will bring. A strong and well-formed conscience will serve us well in this task. Likewise, true compunction will aid us in this struggle. Sorrow for one's sins will destroy this vice.
ACEDIA
St. John explains "tedium of the spirit" in this way: "Tedium is a paralysis of the soul, a slackness of the mind, a neglect of religious exercises, a hostility to vows taken. It is an approval of things worldly." The word for despondency in the Greek is "akidia" and it indicates a listlessness or torpor. The best English word that could be used to explain this is the word "BOREDOM" or perhaps we could even use the word "DISTRACTION." Very often, it begins with a loss of a sense of purpose and ends in despair and spiritual death. St. John gives numerous examples which are sure to strike home to us.
In our day and age, this demon is very much at work. How often does he confuse us with the suggestion that our spiritual labors are in vain!? How often does he suggest to us that our efforts are accomplishing no good result? How often does he point out to us many others who seem to be "gaining ground" without laboring as hard as we are? How often does he suggest that we shouldn't take the spiritual life quite seriously? How often does he remind us of our failures and suggest that perhaps we are wasting our time in pursuing the spiritual life? How often does he weigh our hearts down with earthly cares and thoughts even in the midst of our prayers? How often does he encourage us to take a day off, to sleep in and skip our prayers, to take a spiritual vacation? How often does the demon of boredom confuse our thoughts so that we forget what the goal is and how we are to achieve it?
How do we battle such a powerful demon? St. John suggest two things: Perseverance in the course taken and cooperation with others who are struggling. The only way to beat boredom is to labor through it. Once we have been started on a certain path of prayer and struggle, we must keep on keeping on without allowing ourselves to be distracted. Furthermore, we beat boredom by reminding ourselves of what others have done and are doing. Tedium is rebuffed by the common life and by the constant remembrance of the lives of the saints. Knowing that we are not alone, gives us the encouragement and motivation to persevere when we feel like quitting.
JOYFUL SORROW: TEARS OF REPENTANCE THAT LEAD US INTO THE EMBRACE OF LOVE
In this step John discusses the source of tears and what they do for the soul. Not only are they a gift of God which purifies our hearts and drains away our passions, but true tears produce joy within the heart. Mourning gives way to the consolation of being forgiven by and reconciled with God.
At the heart of our mourning, then, is love for God. We weep because we long for God and the love that He alone can provide. According to John, this makes it one of the most important and essential of virtues.
Remembrance of death is defined, including how one recognizes it in others;John discusses how remembrance of death leads a monk to conversion and repentance and the practice of specific ascetical disciplines;Through the use of illustrative stories, John shows how remembrance of death prevents spiritual laziness and deters sin; John warns against excessive trust in the leniency of God and exhorts his monks to embrace this holy practice.
The causes of moral lapses are considered and the need for courage and perseverance in the face of recurring failures. John exhorts the penitent to trust in the mercy and grace of God but also warns against presumption. Humility is key and true repentance will keep one from judging or even recognizing another's faults.
John concludes by telling his readers to above all let the image of the inmates at the "Prison" be imprinted upon their minds and hearts. They are to let the example of these holy men be their rule and model for repentance.
ON PENITENCE AND THE AVOIDANCE OF PRESUMPTION
John begins this step with a somewhat moderate and encouraging tone by describing repentance as a "renewal of one's baptism and a contract with God for a fresh start in life." With repentance there is always hope and never despair. As penitents we stand before our God guilty, but never disgraced. Indeed, we inflict punishments on ourselves out of love for God, in an attempt to reconcile ourselves to him and to receive the peace that comes through his forgiveness.
However, if there is a step in the "Ladder" which pierces one's heart, if there is any part of the book which really shakes us and brings the message home, it is precisely this step concerning those blessed and compunctionate and voluntary inmates of "the Prison." For truly these holy ones, crazed for Christ, described by John, are a mirror for us, the sluggish and indolent, to look into and to behold how wanting we are in the realm of true heartfelt repentance. They were earnest and serious about their repentance; we are light and distracted concerning our salvation. Some are repelled by the Prison of the "Ladder", while others are pierced and moved by the love for God and strength of soul of these stouthearted inmates, and mourn the lack of both in themselves.
The truly obedient need have no fear of death or judgment.
Having to confess one's thoughts to spiritual father will keep a monk from committing sins. Obedience is perfected when simply the thought of the spiritual father keeps a monk from doing wrong. The truly obedient monk in humility attributes all good that he does to the prayers of his spiritual father.
The Devil's attacks on those who are obedient.
The necessity of constancy in obedience and completeness in the revelation of thoughts. A monk must develop that habit of doing both.
Climacus warns that a monk should not get into the practice of leaving one healer for another. Again the monk should not enter the solitary life or leave his spiritual father too quickly.
What must be done from the start: Choosing a spiritual father and submitting one's self and one's thoughts to him completely. Climacus gives an example of how the wisdom and sternness of a spiritual father brought true humility to a monk through the public confession of his sins. Although himself shocked by the severity of the test and the humiliation experienced, Climacus recognizes the spiritual healing it brought to the young monk and the power of his example for the rest of the community.
Climacus describes the obedience of the monks at a monastery in Alexandria and the wisdom of their holy superior. The obedience of the monks was constant, even in the absence of their superior. They supported each other in the practice and did penance for each other's indiscretions. The superior was strict in his application of remedies, applying them quickly and expecting them to be used without question. The value of this, Climacus states, was in the fruits it produced.
Multiple examples of obedience are given as well as the responsibility of a director of souls of testing the virtue of his monks.
Applying St. John's Teaching to Daily Life in the World
Detachment:
John does not hide the difficulty of the struggle ahead for those who have entered the religious life, and provides little hope for an easier way to progress in virtue. To give oneself up to God requires a stripping of oneself of all possible attachments, concerns, anxieties, possessions, and even certain loves and friendships. In short, one must strip oneself of anything and everything and live solely for God. Only in doing this, John states, can one be truly able to pray as the psalmist, "I will cling close to you" (Ps 62:9).
There are many things, John calls them demons, which try to attack a monk after he has renounced the world. In convincing a monk that he is no better off for the renunciation, the monk either returns to the world, or falls through his grief into despair.
The grief, John tells us, comes from the love of things left behind in the world and, therefore, a monk must be diligent in guarding his heart. Once beginning the difficult journey on the narrow way, John states, it is easy to fall again onto the broad highway that leads to destruction. When the thoughts of the world threaten to overwhelm, the best weapon is prayer.
Exile:
With this third step, John concludes the first section of his treatise describing renunciation and the break with the world which is a prerequisite to the spiritual journey of the monk. As with the two previous steps, exile involves the painful stripping away of worldly attachments - renouncing all for God. Exile means leaving all that one finds familiar. For those in the religious life, it means separation from relations.
John is quick to point out that this does not mean hatred of family, but the recognition that even what is good can be used to draw one away from God. Once a person has renounced the world and entered the monastic life, the strength of his feelings for his family can draw him away from his commitment.
Prayer and the Purification of the Nous; Critique of Centering Prayer; The Fathers Understanding of Demons; Demons in the Desert; Snares of the Demons; Struggling Against the Demons, Indirect Warfare, Asceticism and Modernity
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