Christian sits down with Marty Cagan to decode team topology: one of the most consequential yet misunderstood levers in product organizations. Learn how great leaders design product teams for maximum autonomy, clarity, and customer impact.
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Today’s discussion unpacks:
- How team topology is different from org structure
- Red flags that indicate a broken team structure
- The brutal trade-offs in optimizing for outcomes vs. velocity
- How cognitive load, chemistry, and trust affect team performance
- How to approach team design in growing or transforming orgs
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References:
- Amazon’s Two Pizza Team: https://aws.amazon.com/executive-• insights/content/amazon-two-pizza-team/
- Factors in Structuring a Product Organization by Marty Cagan: https://www.svpg.com/factors-in-structuring-a-product-organization/
- High Integrity Commitments by Marty Cagan: https://www.svpg.com/managing-commitments-in-an-agile-team/
- Pierre Omidyar: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pierre-omidyar-bb10687b/
- Team Topologies by Matthew Skelton and Manuel Pais: https://www.amazon.com/Team-Topologies-Organizing-Business-Technology/dp/1942788819
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Where to find SVPG:
- SVPG’s newest book, TRANSFORMED: https://www.svpg.com/books/transformed-moving-to-the-product-operating-model/
- Other books: https://www.svpg.com/books/
- Articles: https://www.svpg.com/articles/
- Workshops: https://www.svpg.com/
- Videos: https://www.svpg.com/videos/
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Where to find Christian Idiodi:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cidiodi/
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Where to find Marty Cagan:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cagan/
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Timestamps:
(00:00) Intro
(0:46) What is team topology?
(1:56) Top-down vs. bottom-up approaches
(3:01) Team topology ≠ org structure
(5:26) Optimizing for outcomes vs. throughput
(10:20) 3 signs you have a topology problem
(15:24) Who should own team topology?
(17:17) The surprising value of platform teams
(18:14) How do you define a product?
(20:36) The first step in a topology project
(22:23) The cost of scaling teams
(24:52) What high-performing topology requires
(25:13) Balancing resources and ratios
(32:36) Rolling out team topology changes
(33:34) Dismantling bureaucratic team bloat
(40:42) Addressing legacy teams and bureaucracy
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Disclaimer:
While this podcast is named “Product Therapy”, it is not hosted by licensed therapists or mental health professionals, and it is in no way a substitute for professional mental health services. We recognize the importance of mental well-being and encourage anyone facing personal difficulties to seek support from qualified professionals. See https://findahelpline.com/
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Production:
Production by supermix.io