Bad Idea #43 "Fishing in the Antarctic" with Matt Savoca, Ted Cheeseman, and Lucia Morillo

Should we be fishing for krill in the Antarctic? 

In this extraordinary episode, Mark Lynas connects via satellite with three researchers aboard a Sea Shepherd vessel in the Southern Ocean near the South Orkney Islands—one of the most remote and important whale feeding grounds on Earth.

Matt Savoca (Stanford/California Marine Sanctuary Foundation), Ted Cheeseman (UC Santa Cruz/Happy Whale), and Lucia Morillo (Sea Shepherd science coordinator) are conducting the first truly independent survey of this region. Their mission: understand the overlap between recovering whale populations and an expanding industrial krill fishery that takes 620,000 tons annually—the same amount of food consumed by hundreds of thousands of whales, seals, and penguins.

This conversation exposes the krill paradox (why krill didn't explode after whales were removed), whale poop's critical role as ocean fertilizer, climate change shrinking krill habitat southward, and why the Marine Stewardship Council's sustainability certification is now facing objections from WWF and other major conservation groups.

🧠 Topics Discussed:

🐋 Fin whale recovery: from 500,000 to <10,000, now rebounding in South Orkneys

🦐 Krill fishery: 12 vessels from 5 countries, 11 months/year industrial operation

📊 Misleading 1% claim: catch calculated across Europe-sized ocean, concentrated in wildlife hotspots

🔬 First independent survey: Sea Shepherd enabling fishery-independent research

🌡️ Climate crisis: sea ice loss collapsing krill breeding in northern regions

💩 Krill paradox: whale poop fertilizes phytoplankton that feeds krill—ecosystem engineering

🎯 Fishing overlap: whales concentrate where vessels fish; empty water elsewhere

🧬 Genetic sampling: pregnancy rates, body condition, sex determination via crossbow biopsy

📡 Echo sounding: mapping krill concentrations at ecologically relevant scales for predators

🐟 Salmon farming connection: most krill feeds farmed Atlantic salmon in coastal pollution zones

🏷️ MSC certification under fire: WWF, ASOC, WePlanet object to sustainability claim

👨‍🏫 Guest Bios:

Matt Savoca is a marine biologist at Stanford University and California Marine Sanctuary Foundation studying whale ecology and ocean conservation.

Ted Cheeseman is a research fellow at UC Santa Cruz and co-founder of Happy Whale, a citizen science platform that has identified nearly every living humpback whale globally.

Lucia Murillo is science coordinator for Sea Shepherd, leading campaigns exposing industrial fishing in Antarctica and other protected waters.

📚 Recommended Reading:

● Sea Shepherd Antarctic web series on YouTube 

● Happy Whale platform for whale identification 

● ASOC (Antarctic and Southern Ocean Coalition) MPA proposals 

● Studies on krill paradox and whale fertilization

💬 Quote Highlights:

"Fin whales were reduced by about 95% in 70 years—approximately the lifespan of one single fin whale. The scale of destruction is remarkable." — Matt Savoca

"In Antarctica, everything eats krill or eats something that eats krill. The food chains are really, really short." — Lucia Murillo

"Each krill fishing vessel takes as much food daily as 100-500 whales. It's structured for conflict." — Ted Cheeseman

"The 1% claim uses a denominator the size of Europe. But if all fishing happens in Paris and London, is that appropriate?" — Matt Savoca

"This is arguably the place with the highest density of great whales anywhere on the planet. A crown jewel in the world of recovering oceans." — Ted Cheeseman

🌐 About WePlanet:

WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human progress. Learn more at weplanet.org

📥 Support their work and connect with us

💰 Support Sea Shepherd: seashepherd.org 

🐋 Learn more: happywhale.com 

💬 Email us: [email protected] 

📩 Subscribe: weplanet.org/podcast 

👁️ Follow: @weplanetint