Bad Idea #12 "There’s nothing down there" with Callum Roberts

🔍 Episode Summary:

What if the largest living space on Earth was being plundered before we even understood it?

In this timely episode, Mark Lynas speaks with marine conservationist Callum Roberts, Professor at the University of Exeter and lead author of a new Nature commentary calling for full protection of the high seas. 

They challenge the pervasive (and dangerous) idea that the deep ocean is just a lifeless void — free for mining, overfishing, and exploitation. Callum explains why the high seas cover nearly half the planet’s surface and are a critical part of Earth’s life-support system: absorbing heat, producing oxygen, sequestering carbon, and hosting the largest migration on the planet.

From deep-sea mining to human slavery in high-seas fisheries, this is a shocking exposé of the last, vast wilderness on Earth — and why leaving it alone might be the smartest thing we’ve ever done.

🧠 Topics Discussed:

• 🌊 What the high seas actually are — and why they cover 43% of Earth’s surface

• 🧬 The astonishing biodiversity of the deep sea, much of it still unknown

• ☠️ Why mining polymetallic nodules could destroy ecosystems forever

• 💥 The false promises of “low-impact” deep-sea extraction

• 💸 Why deep-sea fisheries are only viable due to massive subsidies

• 📉 The case for full protection — not just 30% — of the high seas

• 🔒 The failure of the International Seabed Authority to act as a neutral regulator

• 🐟 What’s really inside your fish fingers (hint: could be 150-year-old deep-sea fish)

• 🧑‍🌾 Why aquaculture may be better — but not if it’s farmed salmon

• 🚨 Slavery, human trafficking, and illegal fishing on the high seas
  

👨‍🏫 Guest Bio:Callum Roberts is Professor of Marine Conservation at the University of Exeter and one of the world’s leading experts on the impact of fishing and human activity on the ocean. His books include The Unnatural History of the Sea and Reef Life, and he sits on the board of the Maldives Coral Institute. His latest work calls for a paradigm shift in how we govern the high seas — toward full ecological protection.

📚 Recommended Reading & Resources:

• Nature Commentary: Protect the High Seas Completely (2024)

• The Unnatural History of the Sea – Callum Roberts

• Reef Life: An Underwater Memoir – Callum Roberts

• The Outlaw Ocean Project – Ian Urbina

• Manta Trust – High Seas Marine Life

• OSPAR Marine Protected Areas
  

💬 Quote Highlights:

“The high seas cover 43% of the planet — and yet remain largely unprotected, poorly governed, and misunderstood.” — Callum Roberts

“Mining the deep sea is like strip-mining the last untouched rainforest on Earth — except it’s darker, colder, and more mysterious.” — Callum Roberts

“Most of what we eat from the deep sea is only possible because we massively subsidize it — often more than the fish are worth.” — Callum Roberts

“The ocean is Earth’s life support system — it gives us oxygen, absorbs our heat, and locks away our carbon. We mess with it at our peril.” — Mark Lynas

🌐 About WePlanet:

WePlanet is a global science-and-citizen movement promoting evidence-based solutions to protect climate, nature, and prosperity. Learn more at weplanet.org.

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