Bad Idea #8 "We need nuclear weapons to stop nuclear war" with Alan Robock

🔍 Episode Summary:

In this urgent and wide-ranging conversation, Mark Lynas is joined by leading climate scientist and nuclear winter expert Alan Robock to confront one of the most dangerous myths of our time: that nuclear weapons keep us safe.

Alan lays out why deterrence is a flawed and suicidal strategy, how even a "limited" nuclear war would trigger global famine and societal collapse, and why the existence of nuclear weapons means their eventual use is a matter of when, not if. They also discuss the atmospheric science of nuclear winter, parallels to the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs, the threats posed by solar geoengineering, and why total nuclear abolition is not only possible — but urgently necessary.

This is a masterclass in existential risk — and why we ignore it at our peril.

🧠 Topics Discussed:

• 🚫 Why nuclear deterrence is a myth — and how luck has saved us so far
  

• ☠️ Nuclear winter: how cities burning would darken and freeze the planet
  

• 🌾 Nuclear famine: why over a billion people could starve even after a "small" war
  

• 🔥 From Hiroshima to today: how firestorms drive catastrophic global cooling
  

• 🌍 The Southern Hemisphere’s relative survival — and why it’s not so simple
  

• ✊ The Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons and ICAN’s Nobel Peace Prize
  

• 🛰️ How volcanic eruptions and wildfire smoke prove the nuclear winter theory
  

• 🦖 What the dinosaurs can teach us about the end of the world
  

• 🛑 Geoengineering: why "climate intervention" may be as dangerous as the problem
  

• 💬 Why humanity must choose: the end of nuclear weapons or the end of us
  

• 👽 The Drake equation, Fermi paradox — and why advanced civilizations may self-destruct
  👨‍🏫 Guest Bio:

  Alan Robock is a Distinguished Professor of Environmental Sciences at Rutgers University. He is one of the world’s leading authorities on nuclear winter, climate modeling, and the atmospheric consequences of both nuclear war and geoengineering. Alan is a veteran campaigner for nuclear disarmament and an award-winning researcher committed to educating the world about the existential threats we face.

  
  

  📚 Recommended Reading & Resources:

  • Earth in Flames: Nuclear Winter and How to Prevent It – Alan Robock & Brian Toon (out June 2025)
    

  • Nature Food (2022) – Global famine after nuclear war paper
    

  • ICAN – International Campaign to Abolish Nuclear Weapons
    

  • Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons (UN)
    

  • The Open Philanthropy Project
    

  • Future of Life Institute
    

  💬 Quote Highlights:

  “Deterrence only works if you’re willing to commit suicide. That’s not a strategy — that’s madness.” — Alan Robock

  “Nuclear winter is not a theory from the 1980s. It’s physics. Block the sun, and the planet freezes.” — Alan Robock

  “Even a limited nuclear war could kill two billion people by famine alone.” — Alan Robock

  “You can dismantle nuclear weapons. We had 70,000 once. Now we have 12,000. We can go to zero.” — Alan Robock

  “The existence of nuclear weapons guarantees their eventual use — unless we abolish them.” — Alan Robock