John Henry vs. the chatbot: Can humans outsmart AI scam artists?
19 min•30 januari 2026
Do you think you could get scammed by a chatbot?
Neither did IBM Chief People Hacker Stephanie Carruthers—until she went toe to toe with one.
In this episode of Security Intelligence, we take you inside the John Henry Competition at DEF CON 2024, where Carruthers competed with an AI-powered vishing bot to see who was the better con artist.
The results just might surprise you.
Along the way, we explore how generative AI is transforming social engineering, why vishing and voice cloning attacks are surging and what it all means for defenders who’ve spent years training people to spot phishing emails—but not phone calls that sound exactly like their boss.
All that and more—on Security Intelligence.
The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the participants and do not necessarily reflect the views of IBM or any other organization or entity.
Neither did IBM Chief People Hacker Stephanie Carruthers—until she went toe to toe with one.
In this episode of Security Intelligence, we take you inside the John Henry Competition at DEF CON 2024, where Carruthers competed with an AI-powered vishing bot to see who was the better con artist.
The results just might surprise you.
Along the way, we explore how generative AI is transforming social engineering, why vishing and voice cloning attacks are surging and what it all means for defenders who’ve spent years training people to spot phishing emails—but not phone calls that sound exactly like their boss.
All that and more—on Security Intelligence.
The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the participants and do not necessarily reflect the views of IBM or any other organization or entity.
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