The Trinity is Even WEIRDER Than You Thought | Karen Kilby

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Karen Kilby is the Bede Professor of Catholic Theology at Durham University, and one of the most interesting contemporary thinkers on the Trinity, apophatic theology, and the limits of theological understanding.

In this conversation, Jack and Milo talk to Karen about whether Christians should expect to make sense of their own beliefs. Is theology a noble intellectual discipline, a useful service to the Church, or sometimes just a very elaborate waste of time? Do theologians know more about God than ordinary believers? Or is the attempt to master God intellectually already a mistake?

The discussion focuses especially on the Trinity. What does it mean to say that God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? Is the doctrine clearly present in Scripture, or was it developed by the early Church as Christians tried to make sense of their worship of Christ? Why three persons rather than two, four, or seventeen? What is wrong with Arianism or Unitarianism? And how can a doctrine be defended if part of its meaning is that it cannot be fully understood?

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Topics discussed:

Karen Kilby's path from mathematics to theology

Faith, questioning, and the life of the mind

Apophatic theology and divine mystery

What the doctrine of the Trinity says

Scripture, Jesus, and the early Church

Greek philosophy and theological language

Ousia, hypostasis, and homoousios

Arianism, Unitarianism, and orthodoxy

Why the number three matters — or does not

Aquinas and the limits of proof

What theologians are actually for

The Incarnation and divine solidarity

Social trinitarianism

Human unknowability and divine unknowability

Mysteries, puzzles, science, AI, and dangerous knowledge

If you enjoyed the conversation, please like, subscribe, and leave a comment telling us your favourite heresy — or whether you think theology is a waste of time.

0:00 Is Theology a Waste of Time?

1:09 Introduction

8:19 Karen Kilby Arrives

13:28 Faith, Questions, and Theology

17:35 Apophatic Theology and Mystery

20:32 What Is the Trinity?

22:06 Scripture and the Early Church

30:00 Greek Philosophy and New Language

35:02 Why Three?

40:02 Defending an Unprovable Doctrine

48:22 What Are Theologians For?

55:00 Incarnation and Solidarity

59:28 Social Trinitarianism and Unitarianism

1:10:00 Human Mystery and Divine Mystery

1:20:00 Mysteries, Puzzles, and Dangerous Knowledge