Djokovic Told Me the Two Words He Avoids | Matthew Futterman

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Matthew Futterman has covered tennis for 25 years, at the Star-Ledger, The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times and The Athletic. In 2021, after Naomi Osaka said there was "just no happiness out here," he wrote a story and headlined it himself: Why are tennis players so miserable? That question became his book, The Cruelest Game.

He went looking for the secret codes the greats use to survive a sport that eats so many of its best players. The biggest lesson he found: there are no secrets.

In this episode he explains why even Novak Djokovic has doubts, why your best game only shows up a handful of times in a career, what finally changed for Madison Keys when she gave herself permission to lose, why Ash Barty walked away at 25, and the exercise from the coach behind Andre Agassi and Ash Barty that you can do tonight.

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00:00 Intro: Even Djokovic Has Doubts
01:57 Self-Talk and the Secret Codes of the Greats
02:53 Osaka, Barty and Why Tennis Stars Walk Away
05:07 There Are No Secret Codes
06:50 Even the Greatest Player Ever Has a Weakness
07:36 Sabalenka's New Self-Talk (and Her Coach From Jiu-Jitsu)
08:14 Does Rafael Nadal Have an Inner Voice?
10:31 "Why Are Tennis Players So Miserable?"
13:30 Rublev, Tsitsipas and Tennis's Red Flags
16:08 Money, Cameras and the Pressure of the Modern Tour
18:34 The Outer Voices Got Louder: Phones, Trolls and Gamblers
23:40 What Watching Great Tennis Does to You
25:33 Tennis as Self-Expression
28:30 Focus on What's Next
29:42 What Are Players Telling Themselves?
31:22 Madison Keys and Permission to Lose
35:55 Why the Greats Go Down Swinging
38:28 The Harder You Try, the Worse It Gets
40:17 Is Joy Part of the Code?
40:43 Your Best Game Only Shows Up a Handful of Times
41:38 What's Your Average? Winning Without Your Best
43:34 Performance = Potential − Interference: Matt's Interference
44:28 The Two Words Djokovic Tries to Avoid
45:21 The Ice Towel: How Djokovic Stays Present
48:47 Who Are You Beyond Your Results?
49:40 The Exercise You Can Do Tonight