Wind Industry Lifting Innovation with Gregory Kocsis

Allen and Joel are joined by Gregory Kocsis, lifting technology expert, to discuss the gap between European and US crane operations. They cover multi-brand blade handling tools, up-tower cranes, and why the aftermarket service sector is driving innovation in major component replacements. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard's StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes' YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! Welcome to Uptime Spotlight, shining light on wind. Energy's brightest innovators. This is the Progress Powering tomorrow. Allen Hall: Greg, welcome to the program.  Joel Saxum: Thank you guys. Nice to meet you.  Allen Hall: we have a lot to talk about today. there's so many heavy lifts. Complex lifts on ships, lifts on, and mountaintops lifts in really odd places. it's getting more complicated as we go along, and obviously Joel and I talked to a lot of operators and one of the things they complain about more recently is, Hey, we're having trouble with lifts and we're having damage that we didn't have in the past. And it's complicated, and the access to cranes is more complicated. Everything's become more complicated. What are some of the issues that you see on the other end of the spectrum, being in that [00:01:00] business?  Gregory Kocsis: Yeah. Basically what I see that, so I, I work both, in the last decade in both US and Europe. and I can see that there's no lack of technologies. there's a lot of tech that's, solving a lot of issues. but mostly what you can see that there's a slight gap. I would say that, There's two, two prong. the US it seems, some of the farm are really big, and that's good for scale. but the, technologies are a little bit behind, I would say 10, 15 years sometimes. so that also means that the. The solutions that they use to, to change a blade or change a gearbox or how to lower a full, rotor, it's always, lower tech and based on practicalities.  Joel Saxum: Greg, why do you think that is? Do you think it's just simply because, yeah, like the eu, so you've done a lot of work in the eu, of course, onshore, offshore, and globally. But in the EU it [00:02:00] seems like tighter quarters maybe, harder to get around some of the wind farms. Is, does that drive some of the difference in innovation? Because like you said, you there's the innovation is there, the tooling is there. The EU has been doing it for a while. It's just that in the states it seems like we're more, for lack of a better term, like agricultural about things. It's kinda Hey, this has worked for 40 years, so this is what's how we're gonna do it. Gregory Kocsis: Yeah, it's always some, nature driven forces are there. So in the, in, for example, if you look at Germany, there's, a lot of owners and the size of sites are three turbines, four turbines. And if you look at the platform that's available around turbine is very limited. I was also on a site last year in, North Germany where basically, the truck could park right next to the turbine, but they had to clear some trees, in order to, make sure that they can put the full rotor down. Because since, since they installed it, forest grew, [00:03:00] much, much more. That was another case in, Rotterdam when we were right next to the channel and they had to, close the road. that was, docking. To the ships, back and forth every, half an hour when they had to lift the blade and it was going across the road. So when you're in situations like this and there's not a lot of space around the turbines, you have to start thinking that, how can we do this quicker? How can we do this safer? Because you can see that there's a lot of planning that goes, with this as well. And then you need to make sure that, it's more predictable, what you're doing. So I think that. That's one of the main driver for these technologies. if I put it simple terms that the more single crane operation for MCRs, and technologies that allow a single crane exchange, is, more pushed because of this rather than in the US where you can get maybe two smaller, cranes and then you just sling it, [00:04:00] and then take it down with two cranes. Joel Saxum: Yeah, you've got all kinds of space, right? Half of our wind farms are in pasture or farm fields. I wouldn't say half. We say the majority of our wind farms are in pa pasture, and you've got space. The only thing limiting you is, how big the pad is really Right. And bring some cribbing in. You can basically get done with the same technology you've been using for cranes for years and years and with that as well, I think that, one of the things we talked about in our kind of, chat off air was. the workforce over here is a little bit different as well. So the workforce over here is sometimes a, a slinger or someone who's holding a tagline. They got a green hard hat on, and they're a warm body because they need people, they need help. because we're doing things at such scale. Whereas in the eu, that's just not the case. you're not gonna be allowed to be around operations like that unless you've been thoroughly trained for a couple years. And, so, that situation with the workforce is a little bit different. So it's almost easier to not be [00:05:00]consistently and continuously innovating and training people on new things. But with that, we're, leaving ourselves behind in the game, right? There's cost savings to be had, there's time savings to be had that we're just not harvesting.  Gregory Kocsis: Yeah, absolutely. And as you mentioned that the, benefits in, Europe at these, lower scale, that also allows that, some of these smaller ISPs, they can excel what they're doing. So they can have a crew of 10, 15 people and they focus on, some turbines, but they. When they do a campaign, that doesn't mean that they have to go through a hundred turbines. They, do one disassembly or two disassembly or three, and it just stays at that scale. So they can actually manage to get by with the smaller crew and then really, get really experienced, on this. While I think in the US there's quite a lot of push on. We cannot just do one. Because if you look at the size of sites, there's [00:06:00] also one site consists between 80 and 120 turbines. And if you draw an an area that, let's say a two hour driving range that can summarize 2000 turbines. And that also means that when something happens there, you also wanna do it at scale. So you cannot get away with 10, 15 people you need. 30, or you need five, five different crews. And then where can you get these people? How quickly can you train them? And I think that's actually the good thing is that if we could manage to, to, pull the experience that we have in Europe, that would be good to scale it up because that's the drawback of Europe, that when you, once you have something great. You cannot scale it up and then put a specialized tool cost above or across, 2000 turbine exchanges.  Allen Hall: Is there a movement to bring more technology over from the eu, particularly because, the tools are a little more specialized, [00:07:00] but you're reducing risk. Is it just that, the larger wind farms, be it in the United States, be it in Australia or there's a lot of places on the planet where the wind farms are big Brazil. Another case in point, are there cases where it needs to have more technology transfer? They're doing it a certain way. In Germany, it's cleaner, more efficient. It takes those people to do it. It's safer, it's repeatable. Have we just not broached that yet? Because it doesn't seem like there's a lot of technology transfer in terms of lifts from the EU to many other places. Gregory Kocsis: I think the main, if you look at it that what is the driver on this is who's responsible for an MCR operation. And if you look at the turbine's lifetime, it's all about. Who's, responsible for the service. And in us, typically the turbine, especially next era, likes to buy new turbines with zero, zero involvement from the OEMs they want to [00:08:00] take over from the get go. and then typically in, in Europe we have, 10, 15 or whole, lifetime service contracts. if you look at a pie that who, takes care of the turbine? I would say that. 40% is, in the hands of, the asset owners or ISPs. and that's also growing. So I think it was, would make that estimated that 40% will, will shift towards, 60. So that, that is the drive that I can see that more of this chunk is getting, getting bigger. And you can see players that are already globally existing, like Deutsche intech, that. That's quite big in the US and Europe that they started to do that transition, and then take that technology that they could experience in different sites and then put this to the service side. But that's, the difficult part, that even though that slice is [00:09:00] fairly big, it's spread across small companies. And as a small company, if you pick one in Denmark or you pick one in the Netherlands, for them to collaborate on a project or assist on a project in US or Australia or Brazil, it's quite costly. So then the question comes at who's. Who's footing the bill? is it the service company? Is it the asset owner? Is the crane company chipping in? Or how is the collaboration working? And there's no rule of thumb that applies everywhere for these. So it's case by case that how, big is it? How many turbines are we talking about? What kind of turbines, how far are we out in the service contract?  Joel Saxum: It brings in a couple of questions, right? Why are we having this block of, lifting and crane operation innovations? Is it when the OEMs are responsible? They have,...