UNAPOLOGETIC

South Africa’s former minister of international relations, Naledi Pandor, speaks to us about the why South Africa took Israel to court for genocide. We also speak about why the world has still not yet intervened decisively and has allowed Israel to continue its onslaught in Gaza, whether international institutions will break down under a new Trump presidency and in the aftermath of Israel’s impunity, changes in global power away from the North towards a more multipolar reality, and what can be done to stop Israel.

Pandor grew up in a political family and as a child she was exiled from South Africa to go to Lesotho, Zambia and the United Kingdom, where her family contributed to South Africa’s freedom struggle. She draws on that experience and from her experience as being part of South Africa’s democratic government for three decades to tell us the challenges that lie ahead for Palestinian liberation and offers advice on how that road can be trodden.

“Fighting racism in silos that was invented by racism doesn’t make any sense.”

Rachel Shabi is an author, journalist and commentator, and she has recently published her second book, Off-White: The Truth About Antisemitism.

Shabi joined us for a conversation about her book, the fate of Arab-Jewish identity, how Israel’s war on Gaza is polarising global society and how the racist logic that defined so many colonial crimes is still at play today, justifying war crimes in the last few decades.

Chapters

00:00 Intro 

02:04 How significant is the war in Gaza

06:24 Why you chose to write Off-White and being an Iraqi Jew

12:30 How did 7th October impact Off-White

15:30 The wealth and loss of her Arab-Jewish identity

19:25 Arab-Jewish displacement from origin countries

27:30 Journey with Palestinian liberation

31:10 The Iraq war

36:20 The fakery of whiteness and origins of antisemitism

42:20 Haven't all empires weaponised racism?

47:54 How the US policy in the Middle East fuels antisemitic tropes

53:15 Why does racist bias self-perpetuate and its consequences

01:03:02 How can Jewish societies be safe

01:08:12 What will be the future of Israel-Palestine?

01:10:14 The single takeaway from your book, Off-White

“I think the Arab leaders are going to be the victims of this genocide in Gaza.”

Wadah Khanfar is the founder and executive director of the Al-Sharq Forum. He is also the former director general of the Al Jazeera Media Network.

We speak to Khanfar about Gaza, the prospect of regional war, what it means to be a Palestinian and an Arab at this moment in time, and how the frustration being felt by Arabs due to “genocide” in Gaza will manifest itself.

Khanfar also recalls his time as a journalist in Afghanistan and Iraq and how the challenges he faced there compare with what journalists in Gaza are going through now. And he speaks about what inspired him to write his book, The first Spring, which is about what drove the strategic goals of the Prophet Muhammad. 

In a conversation with Dr. Azzam Tamimi - who is a scholar of political science and has written books on the history of Hamas - we discuss the legacy of Yahya Sinwar.

Was it a miscalculation for Israel to release footage of how the Hamas leader was killed? What will it mean for the war? What are Israel's war ambitions and will they succeed?

“It’s not just that the US is complicit in this genocide, the US itself is responsible for this genocide”.

A year after the events of 7 October, Joseph Massad speaks about Israel's response and what it has all meant and could mean for the region.

Massad speaks about how Israel acts as an extension of US imperial policy. His unapologetic analysis is that it’s an “absurd argument” that the US is being dragged into wars it does not want by Israel and rather the the US has “pushed Israel to be more aggressive in the region since 1967”.

We also speak about the prospect of regional war and how that will play out, the response of Arab countries which in his view have continued to support Israel, how the media have covered the last year, what has driven the devastation in Gaza, the future of the region and so much more.

Saying it is antisemitic to oppose genocide is the most antisemitic statement of all"

Who is Jill Stein?

In this extended interview, Jill Stein speaks about what drives her to want to change the way the USA is governed. 

We speak about her early life and the events and ideas that inspired her, and the experiences that convinced her that the best way to make the USA a better country - and more responsible global power - is to try and challenge the political status quo, in particular the machinery of the Democratic and Republican parties. She talks about why she chose to do this from outside the machine as a Green Party candidate.

She speaks about how “the squad” of Democratic progressives in Congress have inevitably lost their ability to influence change due to the corrosive nature of party politics. 

Stein believes that the Democrats and Republicans are “evil parties”, one “conducting a genocide” and the other wanting to “dismantle nuclear weapons treaties”, and that neither party represents the American people.

She is hopeful that the Green Party could quadruple the vote it achieved in the 2016 election, meaning it could gain almost six million votes.

She says that in the unlikely event that she wins the election, she would immediately stop the “genocide in Gaza”.

“That’s part of an empire that has grown rich and grown powerful but refuses to grow up” - Cornel West.

In an impassioned and lengthy conversation, Dr Cornel West unapologetically shares moments from his life that shaped him and his ideas and inspired his decision to run as a US presidential candidate.

He reflects on his upbringing in the West household, the influence that his parents had on him, how his grandmother was left to bleed to death on the stairs of a whites-only hospital at the age of 31 and how his uncle was lynched.

Dr West also speaks about the influence that Malcolm X and Dr Martin Luther King had on him, his years studying and teaching at Harvard, Princeton and Yale, and how the civil rights movement has evolved throughout his life. He addresses his “critical” support for and eventual disillusionment with Barack Obama, as well as the reasons behind his current presidential run, Israel’s war crimes in Gaza and the “hypocrisy”, “mendacity” and “criminality” of the US political system.

Andrew Feinstein was born in South Africa in the 1960s, during the era of grand apartheid. He joined the struggle for a free South Africa, and was deployed by Nelson Mandela to serve in South Africa’s democratically elected parliament.

The corruption he saw in the higher echelons of power through arms deals led him to move to the UK, where he subsequently wrote multiple books that investigated corruption in the global arms trade.

Feinstein is a Jew. His mother survived the Gestapo by hiding in a coal cellar for three and a half years. His broad conviction to uphold human dignity and stand against all forms of discrimination was embedded in him through his mum’s nurturing. For this reason he opposes Israel, which he believes is an apartheid state that is much worse than the apartheid he witnessed and benefited from as a white South African.

Feinstein is now running as an independent candidate for his constituency in central London, Holborn and St Pancras, against the Labour Party leader, Keir Starmer.

If he succeeds, Labour may be forced to choose a new leader, who is also heavily tipped to be the UK’s next PM.

In this episode of UNAPOLOGETIC Andrew Feinstein shares his life experiences and tells us why international law and civility are at stake at this present moment.

“There shall be no trace of Palestinian society, culture, history because they going to be wiped out… This is I think the plan for the Zionists.”

Mads Gilbert is a Norwegian anesthesiologist and emergency medicine specialist who has made frequent trips since 1982 to Palestinian refugee camps in Lebanon, the West Bank and Gaza to help deliver urgent medical care to Palestinian victims of Israeli atrocities.

On UNAPOLOGETIC he shares his experiences, and how by providing medical services he has come to understand both Israel and the Palestinian liberation struggle against occupation and colonisation. 

He is a firm advocate on the right for Palestinians to resist the occupation with arms within the confines of International law.

He is a firm advocate on the right for Palestinians to resist the occupation with arms within the confines of International law.

Ofer Cassif represents the Hadash Party in the Israeli Knesset and he has been openly calling Israel’s actions in Gaza a ‘genocide’.

In this extended interview, Cassif gives insights into the political climate inside Israeli society and the Israeli government. He speaks about the “subjugation” plan, a document put forth by far-right members of the Israeli government (who are now key figures in the leading coalition) which details how what he says is a plan to either ethnically cleanse greater Israel from Palestinians or have them continue living under an ever-increasing brutal occupation that makes life for Palestinians in the occupied territories unliveable.

Cassif also speaks about how Netanyahu is “terrified” about proceedings at the ICJ, how Israeli society is becoming increasingly polarised, how Israel has already moved towards a “fascist” reality and how the government is using October 7th to make Israel a fully fledged "autocratic state".

He also speaks about his early life and how his political views developed despite of the cultural climate in Israel where “brainwashing” was rampant.


00:00 Intro
01:15 How has the knesset responded to you
03:40 What kind of home and society did Ofer live in
07:30 Brainwashing in Israeli society
12:30 being conscripted into the Israeli army
14:25 being the first person imprisoned to refuse to serve 
17:00 Studying in London influence of Yeshayahu Leibowitz
19:30 How "Judaeo Nazism" was born
21:45 Losing friends on October 7th and Israel's brutal reaction
24:45 Fascism becoming mainstream in Israel and police brutality
28:00 We are "in the midst of a cold civil war"
30:30 Climate in Israel before October 7th - protests
33:00 How the government is using Gaza to make Israel an autocratic state
36:00 The subjugation plan
39:00 How would you have responded to October 7th if you were PM
41:57 Cassif's vision for a solution
44:30 What to do about settlers and right of return
48:29 Gaza, Rafah and international pressure
50:30 Netanyahu is a "psychopath"
53:30 Biden's double standards
55:30 Factors that determine a "wider operation in Gaza"
58:30 Netanyahu is terrified about the ICJ
1:00:30 how does international pressure impact Israeli society
1:03:00 False claims of anti-semitism
1:05:00 Will Israeli society have a reckoning
1:07:25 How the society is being split
1:10:05 Justice for Gaza - How?
1:13:15 Let's hope there is no wider operation against Rafah

Hamid Dabashi is an Iranian-American professor at Columbia University. He has authored more than 20 books and has expertise in subject areas including Iran, US foreign policy, the Middle East, identity politics and empire. 

Dabashi grew up in Ahvaz in Iran, moved to Tehran in the 1970s and then relocated to the USA with his family in 1976.

In this interview he speaks about what life was like growing up in an Iran that was ruled by the CIA-backed shah and what it was like experiencing the Iranian revolution from afar, seeing the repressive regime of the Shah being replaced by a repressive theocracy.

Dabashi then touches on confronting the US empire and white supremacy as a brown-skinned Muslim in a period when the US has been engaged in wars in Arab and Muslim lands. 

He recollects his long-standing friendship with the Palestinian intellectual Edward Said and how they as faculty of Columbia University along with other colleagues planted seeds that have blossomed into what have become solidarity protests with the Palestinian national cause on Columbia’s campus, which he describes as a “glorious sight”.

Dabashi believes that zionism, white supremacy and any other settler colonial ideology will inevitably be doomed. 
 
Hosted by Ashfaaq Carim

00:00 Intro
00:55 Impact of growing up in Iran, two years after Mossadegh was removed by the CIA
04:58 Life in Ahwaz, cosmopolitan family, vodka and Umm Kulthoom
07:49 Was the repression under the shah apparent and June 1963 uprising
10:10 Political discussion inside the Dabashi household
11:10 Going to study undergraduate degree in Tehran in the 1970s
13:20 Getting an education be reading banned books
15:00 The sense of subversiveness in1970s Iran under the Shah 
17:30 Gained in translation - learning from anti-colonials around the world
20:08 Immigrating to the USA in 1976 - did you feel a revolution was on the way
24:15 Living in the USA while the Iranian revolution is taking place
26:15 Your own sentiments on the Iranian revolution
28:00 How Khomeini crushed opposition 
30:45 Limited media access in the USA to understand the revolution
32:15 What does't the west understand about Iran - immigrants civilising the pallet of the USA
35:00 On becoming more rooted in the USA
37:00 Did you think the Mullahs would still be in charge of Iran for so long
39:00 Edward Said and the exilic condition
40:48 Why would Iran unravel
42:15 How has living inside of empire changed you - 9/11 and the Gulf Wars
45:00 Becoming more conscious of being a muslim after 9/11
48:15 U.S moving away from real politik and into ideological white supremacy
51:00 When BLM took statues down and the racism of European enlightenment
55:00 How has Zionism used white supremacy
59:45 When Hamid Dabashi and Edward Said first tried to do a divestment campaign at Columbia
01:03:00 On being a subversive academic
01:06:00 The importance and diversity of the present protests
01:07:30 Attempts to delegitimise the protests are futile - The NYT should be studied for bias
01:10:30 The juxtaposition of calling out empire while being in the centre of empire
01:12:50 When Edward Said was demonised
01:16:20 Being critical of everything is liberating
01:18:20 What would Edward Said's reaction be to all that is going on
01:22:00 When will we see Palestinian liberation
01:24:30 One state solution is the only solution
01:27:00 The protestors are the moral conscious of the time
01:28:00 Judaism is being liberated from zionism
01:29:14 Who's gonna save humanity from white supremacy

“You (the coloniser) must punish them (the colonised) with a scale of violence that mocks the resistance”

Professor Rudolph Ware, also known as Butchware on social media, speaks about his upbringing and how reading the autobiography of Malcolm X inspired him.

He shares his thoughts on how he believes Malcolm X would have responded to the 7 October attacks, the important legacy and “moral obligation” to resist colonialism and how that applies to Palestinians.

Professor Ware explains how ‘exemplary violence’ was used to dehumanise slaves and how it is being applied by Israel in Palestine right now, while “liberal” media and “liberal” powers provide cover.

He also speaks about white supremacy. He criticises people who are platforming Candace Owens on Palestine as “hurtful” to the black community and damaging to fostering true solidarity. He pulls no punches. Shaun King, LeBron James, Colin Kaepernick, Trevor Noah and the “crocodile tears” that are used to justify the spilling of the blood of brown and black people all come under the microscope.

00:00 intro
00:57 Professor Rudoplh Ware aka Dr. Belal
01:48 Any thinking black man in America is an expert on white supremacy
02:26 The drumbeat for dehumanization after October 7th
06:12 expand on 'they will kill your name and say that you liked it' 
07:40 "Do you condemn Hamas" as the question that precedes all other questions
08:50 Butchware's upbringing
11:30 world flips when moving to white suburbs
13:17 Deciding to study history and Malcolm X
15:00 Reading the autobiograohy of Malcolm X
19:45 how would Malcolm X would have responded to the events of Oct 7th?
23:40 Hamas's resistance within the framework of the power imbalance
27:30 The fiqh of fighting, resistance and being outnumbered
29:18 Exemplary violence, how it works and how it is being applied in Palestine
34:00 Zionism as White supremacy and disparity of violence
38:00 On being ambivalent about the genocide
41:20 on Mandela, if peace is not an option to move forward then you should fight
42:18 Weaponising white femininty to unleash violence on non-whites
47:20 White supremacy being dismantled
47:39 do you think that white supremacy is on the decline and why?
52:30 Zionims on its last gasp
55:40 support for Palestine vs opportunism, Candace Owen and Tucker Carlson
01:02:00 Palestinian Resistance does not need Shaun King
01:10:20 liberalism as a cover for Atrocities and how that works
01:16:22 white supremacists vs liberal white supremacists
01:19:40 liberal white supremacists' biggest fight with white supremacists is over the story that is being told
01:22:25 are these protests different because the kids protesting are dissasociating from the problem of liberalism
01:29:13 Nixon pulled out of Vietnam
01:33:13  Lebron James, Colin Kaepernick and Trevor Noah
01:37:19 the double standards of the media, the shift in the official/media narrative, no lessons learnt from the Iraq war 
01:44:04 unfinished question - on Israel losing/the Palestinians not giving up
1:46:30 Can the USA save itself
01:49:43 outro

Miko Peled is the son of a decorated Israeli general. His grandfather was one of 37  Israelis who signed Israel’s declaration of independence.

His mother came from a wealthy family of “blue-blooded” Zionists, yet even though she has lived her whole life in support of Israel, she would lament to her son about the unfortunate ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from Jerusalem in 1948. 

Peled had his doubts about Israel’s occupation ever since its actions in Lebanon in 1982, but his eyes were fully opened after he did a tour of the occupied territories in the early 2000s. It was then clear to him that Israel was involved in what is now an “eight decades-long ethnic cleansing and genocide” of Palestinians.

Peled believes that Israel will stop at nothing if given the opportunity to completely ethnically cleanse Gaza and the West Bank; it’s just a matter of when and how.

The only thing that will stop Israel, he believes, is if the international community forces it to, by imposing "sanctions immediately".

00:00 Intro
00:57 Growing up as the proud son of an Israeli general
02:30 Grandfather was on of 25 people who signed Israel's declaration of Independence
03:30 Father's role in pushing a two-state solution
05:15 Influence of Mother who was "zionist blue blood" 
07:00 Mom's recollection of the ethnic cleansing of Jerusalem in 1948
08:45 Cognitive dissonance and living with contradictions
10:25 Israel's invasion of Lebanon in 1982
12:30 Sabra and Shatila Massacres and the bombing of Beirut being eye-opening
13:45 Embarking on the Journey of an Israeli in Palestine and meeting Palestinians
15:45 Niece killed in 1997 by a suicide bomber
17:30 Confronting Ehud Barak at the funeral
19:05 The two state solution was never taken seriously by Israel
21:15 The path of tears
24:00:00 The only solution a complete solution with full rights to Palestinians
25:50:00 Has Israeli society changed much in the last 20 years?
28:00:00 Israeli society has been racist for eight decades now
29:30:00 I've always been weary that Israel's brutality could get more horrific
31:30:00 The only way to stop this "genocide" is to force an end to it
33:00:00 October 7th  and Israel being a "paper tiger"
35:00:00 The U.S, UK and others are completely complict and their stances will not change
37:00:00 Protests are great but we need to be meeting with those in power
39:00:00 This could be a watershed moment or a footnote
40:00:00 Israel's end game is ethnic cleansing - the world needs a response
42:00:00 Conditions in Gaza, people are dying from small cuts
43:30:00 Israel is the problem
45:00:00 We need sanctions now, not the next generation

“It became almost part of American values, post 9/11, to demonise the Middle East.”

Jess Natale created the Instagram account So.Informed in 2020 so that she could keep her colleagues who were campaigning for Bernie Sanders up to date with information and facts that were well sourced.

Once Bernie dropped out, the account became a reference that sourced reliable information that aimed to pushback against misinformation being spread by Donald Trump supporters.

Now, four years later, So.informed has 3.1 million followers, unapologetically criticises Israel’s occupation and atrocities, and strongly advocates for a free Palestine.

In this episode of UNAPOLOGETIC we speak with the person behind the account, Jess Natale, who tells us why she started the account, how her perspectives were shaped by her country’s and father’s reaction to 9/11. How she learnt about Israel’s occupation of Palestine and the content journey she has been on with so.informed since it began.

Other episodes of UNAPOLOGETIC can be seen here: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMyaP73Ho1ySmZCDwUxqccJkdFSC27TTI&si=nmawha50CjsLmV4w

Chapters

00:00 Intro
01:00 Lessons from the last six months
01:45 Starting so.informed, Trump and Bernie
05:10 How do you manage to run so.informed
07:30 Thoughts on mainstream media
11:00 Moving from presenting information to having a voice
13:05 May 2021 Covering West Bank and the reaction to that
15:00 Receiving death threats
17:30 influence of the Iraq War and 9/11
20:00 hate crime at a gas station and relationship with her father
23:30 How has the page been received since doubling down on Palestine.
25:00 Shutting down thinking about followers
27:15 Being disappointed with Bernie Sanders and AOC reaction to Gaza
31:30 Will the U.S government become more humane on Palestine?
34:00 Special interest groups or plain old white supremacy
36:00 What will the USA be like in 2040?
38:30 Stuck between Genocide Joe and Donald Trump, what do voters do?
41:00 Would Obama or Bernie done a better job the Joe on Gaza
43:30 Will the world heal from this atrocity
46:00 Iran has had no affect of protest action
47:30 The settler apartheid state needs to come to an end
50:00 The spirit of Palestinians

Subscribe to our channel: http://ow.ly/AVlW30n1OWH

Subscribe to MEE Telegram channel to stay up to date: https://t.me/MiddleEastEye_TG

Middle East Eye Website: https://middleeasteye.net
Follow us on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@middleeasteye
Follow us on Instagram: https://instagram.com/MiddleEastEye
Like us on Facebook: https://facebook.com/MiddleEastEye
Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/MiddleEastEye

Rabbi Elhanan Beck has lived outside of Israel since he was three years old, this is despite the fact that his family lineage in what he calls “Palestine” goes back seven generations.

Beck stands with what he says are the vast majority of Orthodox Jews who strongly oppose Israel. Their reason: The Jewish religious principle that Jews need to live in exile until the “peaceful” arrival of the messiah, and because of the “oppression” and “brutality” that Israel is built upon.

In this in-depth interview Rabbi Elhanan speaks about Judaism, Israel and Zionism and reacts to what he openly calls Israel’s “genocide” in Gaza.

00:00 Intro
00:56 Rabbi early life and connection to the holocaust
04:41 Life in England and anti-Israel activism
09:02 Judaism as a religion vs a race or state
12:53 The idea of Jewish people being in exile and what it means
13:30 What is Zionism
15:49 Zionism and Judaism - compatibility
22:20 The Rabbi's perception of non-religious Jews
28:28 The Problem with Zionism
32:27 Orthodox Jews and the state of Israel
35:27 How Zionism adopted some Orthodox Rabbis
38:27 The Orthodox Rabbi's who support Israel?
40:27 Jewish persecution in Europe
42:27 Jews who live in the muslim world
44:27 How Mossad created a rift between Jews and Muslim Arabs
46:27 Jewish rabbi speaks about no anti-semitism in Iran
48:27 What about having a fair and just Jewish state
52:49 Why some Orthodox Rabbi's support Zionism - protection vs belief
58:49 Isreal is the most unsafe place for Jewish people
01:03:54 Media doesn't show Orthodox Jews who are anti-zionist
01:04:59 taking a moment to break fast
01:06:33 Did he Rabbi always want to be a Rabbi
01:07:55 When did the state of Israel first hurt you?
01:09:12 How would you feel if you were in Gaza
01:11:55 Palestinian relationship with Jews
01:15:15 The Rabbi's feelings on Hamas and October 7th
01:18:15 Why Israel as a state cannot succeed
01:21:27

This is Al Jazeera’s Youmna El Sayed’s harrowing, nearly three hour account of all that she witnessed while covering Gaza.

Youmna El Sayed has reported from Gaza for more than a decade. She was in Gaza on 7 October when Hamas attacked Israel and then remained in Gaza covering Israel's assault on the strip. In this in-depth conversation over nearly three hours she recollects events as she remembers them unfolding. From waking to the sound of rockets being fired into Israel on 7 October, to then finding herself and her family forcibly displaced five times in the ensuing bombardment as she covered the war.

She speaks about the scarcity of food and water, losing colleagues who were killed, needing to evacuate her family while fearing for their lives, literally stepping over the remains of dead bodies, and so much more

Through all of the above El Sayed continued her work as a journalist for Al Jazeera until she and her family managed to evacuate Gaza to Cairo, where they are presently living.

She also speaks about the challenges that now face her and her family and the residents of Gaza as many of them face a future where they do not know if they will ever be able to go back to their homes which now lie in ruins.

CHAPTERS

00:00 Intro
01:10 what can you remember about October 7th
04:00 Going to the bureau and starting to cover the war
06:30 thoughts on what Israel's retaliation would have been 
09:30 Preparing your family for what is going to happen
12:11 Not being able to be close to your family as bombs are falling on your neighbourhood 
18:15 My kids we terrified, only able to sleep in my arms
20:12 Palestinians don't have choices, they just need to endure
23:23 Bombardments of the night vs bombardments of the day
26:44 Leaving home
37:06 Having no water or food
38:04 how what you see changes your soul
39:52 Bearing witness to what I never thought I would see
43:45 The child with the blue backpack
01:00:55 On Joe biden
01:09:24 Bombing Jabaliyah refugee camp and almost dying
01:14:17 If we die, we all die together as a family
01:17:38 anonymous call 
01:24:39 we will be killed because of you
01:26:40 when I started to feel that I would be killed because I was a journalist
01:27:52 Youmna and family leave Gaza city for a 2nd time
01:32:29 taking shelter with 60  people in a small apartment building
01:39:57 bodies decomposing on roads and crossings
01:44:36 having conversations on leaving Gaza and where to go
01:52:26 Walking to Khan Younis with Wael Dahdouh
01:56:43 Walking through the corridor of death
02:00:39 ceasefire and going to the beach
02:05:44 Isreal begins ground operation in Khan Younis, going to Rafah
02:09:39 How Youmna and family left Gaza
02:14:38 having fate that they would be able to leave
02:17:08 adjusting to life in Cairo and PTSD

02:23:40 On losing Al Jazeera colleague and friends - Samer and Hamza
02:28:47 What if there is no Gaza to return to
02:32:48 Where will Palestinians in Gaza go to
02:34:05 Will Gaza be ethnically cleansed
02:37:19 What does accountability look like
02:41:00 consequences of there being no accountability

Subscribe to our channel: http://ow.ly/AVlW30n1OWH

Subscribe to MEE Telegram channel to stay up to date: https://t.me/MiddleEastEye_TG

Middle East Eye Website: https://middleeasteye.net
Follow us on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@middleeasteye
Follow us on Instagram: https://instagram.com/MiddleEastEye
Like us on Facebook: https://facebook.com/MiddleEastEye
Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/MiddleEastEye

Over the course of a lengthy discussion, Mustafa Barghouti recollects his life from growing up as a child in Ramallah, which was then controlled by Jordan, to the present Israeli assault on Gaza.

Topics covered include how the 1967 War and subsequent Israeli occupation changed his life and propelled him to become a medical doctor and into political activism, studying medicine abroad. He describes life under occupation and the hopes that the First Intifada brought, the failed Oslo peace process and his role in those negotiations, how he was shot in 1996 by Israeli security forces, the decades-long brutality of the Israeli army, the Second Intifada, the death of Yasser Arafat, Palestinian elections in 2006 and the civil war, the siege of Gaza. He talks about the 7 October, how the media perceives the current assault by Israel on Gaza, and the future of Palestinian liberation.


Recorded on 22nd February 2024

Topic breakdown
00:00 - Intro
00:37 - Growing up in Ramallah
02:44 - Impact of the 1967 War and occupation
05:55 - How occupation changed regular life
07:17 - How long did you think the occupation will last
08:54 - Why he studied Medicine in Russia
13:25 - Life after returning home
15:00 - The occupation tightening it's grip on Palestinians
17:24 - Contributions as a medical doctor
18:55 - Palestinian resistance before the 1987 uprising
23:37 - Circumstances around the Oslo peace process
26:35 - Israel's policy of breaking bones
28:30 - The Oslo accords
33:00 - How Oslo was doomed to fail
34:31 - Netanyahu come to power in 1996
37:10 - thoughts on the 2nd uprising
39:20 - Reflections on Yasser Arafat
41:39 - 2006 election and civil war and siege
45:27 - The situation on October 6th
49:02 - October 7th and crisis in Gaza
55:13 - Response to Israel's genocide and US position
1:11:00 - Media bias and racism
1:14:30 - Israel's intentions in Gaza
1:18:30 - Inadequate world reaction
1:22:15 - the way forward for Palestinians
1:24:00 - hopes for the year 2050


UNAPOLOGETIC is hosted by Ashfaaq Carim

“I saw evidence that really challenged everything that I knew”

Ilan Pappe shares how he came across historical documents back in 1978 that debunked  Zionist myths and set him off on his journey to becoming an Israeli dissident, why what is going on in Gaza is a ‘genocide’ that is much worse than the Nakba of 1948, and why he thinks Zionism is near its end.

Episode Outline
00:00 Introduction
00:30 What was the Nakba?
04:23 Zionist fabrications around the Nakba
09:15 Gaza compared to 1948 Nakba
12:12 Why did you decide to study the Nakba
14:34 Meeting Palestinian academics
17:00 False assumptions I took for granted
19:07 How did you approach the documents
21:10 how I became secure in my work and my findings
21:45 being forced out of Haifa University
24:40 life in Israel as a dissident
27:30 Getting sh*t parcels in the mail
29:30 Observations on Israeli society becoming racist
32:30 The Israeli education system indoctrinating a new society
36:25 Israel's ruthlessness in Gaza now
38:30 Gaza a strategic challenge to Zionist project
40:15 What happens in Gaza now
43:30 What Israel is doing now will lead to a strategic loss for Israel
45:00 Reasons why Zionism will come to an end

UNAPOLOGETIC is hosted by Ashfaaq Carim

Recorded on the 22nd February 2024

Middle East Eye Website: https://middleeasteye.net

‘I mean from October we were saying this is ethnic cleansing and these are war crimes… If you follow the statements from Israeli leaders and the indiscriminate bombing of Gaza…. It was clear what they doing…they were eliminating Gaza, making sure that life in Gaza would never be back [to] the same way it was.’

In an extended interview, Reverend Dr Munther Isaac, the Lutheran pastor of Bethlehem, speaks about growing up under occupation, how Palestinian Christains have often been failed by the international Church, how the war in Gaza in an extension of colonialism and the world’s inaction to stop  what he says is a clear case of genocide and ethnic cleansing