SYPM 018: No Set Bedtime with Gila and Katherine

When I interviewed Dr. Chris Winters last year, I described how we’ve been using a No Set Bedtime method with our daughter Carys.  He used it with his children starting in the Elementary years, and his eyes nearly fell out of his head when I told him we’d been using it since Carys was about three.   In the email about the Dr. Winters interview I asked any listeners who wanted to learn more about this method to be in touch, so in this episode we’ll meet listeners Katherine and Gila.  Katherine’s daughter is three and Gila’s son is seven, and in this episode I explain the No Set Bedtime approach and then they pepper me with questions about how to make it work in their families.     We recorded our conversation back in November 2021, and in January I followed up with them to see how it’s going.  I share their feedback and my ideas on what’s going well and what they might adjust.   [embed]https://vimeo.com/671735528[/embed]     [accordion] [accordion-item title="Click here to read the full transcript"]   Jen Lumanlan  00:02 Hi, I'm Jen and I host the Your Parenting Mojo podcast. We all want her children to lead fulfilling lives. But it can be so   Jessica  00:11 Do you get tired of hearing the same old intros to podcast episodes? Me too. Hi, I'm not Jen. I'm Jessica, and I'm in Burlesque Panama. Jen has just created a new way for listeners to record the introductions to podcast episodes, and I got to test it out. There's no other resource out there quite like Your Parenting Mojo, which doesn't just tell you about the latest scientific research on parenting and child development. It puts it in context for you as well. So, you can decide whether and how to use this new information. If you'd like to get new episodes in your inbox, along with a free infographic on 13 reasons your child isn't listening to you what to do about each one. Sign up at YourParentingMojo.com/subscribe, and come over to our free Facebook group to continue the conversation about this episode. You can also thank Jen for this episode by donating to keep the podcast ad free by going to the page for this or any other episode on YourParentingMojo.com. If you'd like to start a conversation with someone about this episode or know someone who would find it useful, please forward it to them. Over time, you're gonna get sick of hearing me read this intro as well. So come and record on yourself. You can read from a script she's provided or have some real fun with it and write your own. Just go to YourParentingMojo.com and click Read the Intro and I can't wait to hear yours.   Jen Lumanlan  01:32 Hello, and welcome to the Your Parenting Mojo Podcast. Today, we're actually going to do something that we have not done before. We have two parents here with us today, they reached out to me after the still recent to us as we're recording here, that's going to be a little while before this episode is really on the episode with Dr. Chris Winter, where we were learning about sleep and we talked about our no set bedtime process. And at the beginning of that interview, I said, if anyone's curious about this and is interested in applying this idea with their own children, feel free to reach out and maybe we can set something up. And so we have two fabulous parents here today, Gila and Katherine. And each of them reached out and we're curious about various aspects. And we're also kind of hesitant about various aspects. And so today we're going to talk through with them what it might look like to have a no-set bedtime routine in their house. So I'm gonna ask each of them to introduce themselves. And then I'm going to talk for a bit about how this has played out for us and for what I've seen with the families that have implemented it. And then we're gonna go into a q&a, and they're gonna poke holes in this on your behalf, dear listeners so that you can really see how this could play out with your family if you decided to try this. So hello, and welcome to Gila and Katherine, Gila doyou want to go first and introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about you and your family and where you are in the world? And what made you reach out when you saw this offer?   Gila  02:54 Thanks for having me. So I am a single mom of a seven-year-old boy, and we're in upstate New York. And I reached out for a couple of reasons. One is that my son, while sometimes he falls asleep relatively easily, sometimes, relatively frequently, he falls asleep more than an hour after lights out. And I'm a little familiar with the insomnia literature. And my understanding is that it's not good to be in bed for that long and tossing and turning. And I want to establish healthy sleep habits. But I also really think sleep is so important. The other piece is that sleep is a time when behavioral challenges can come up. And I think there's a lot of reasons why that's the case. But one of them is the power dynamic that this is a place where there can be a power struggle. And I've seen in other places how better things go when I can shift away from the sort of power-over dynamic and have a more collaborative approach. But I struggle with that with bedtime because I do think that sleep is so important. And because it's a place where I think structure and consistency are helpful. So but I was very intrigued and I'm very curious to learn more.   Jen Lumanlan  04:07 Okay, super. And my understanding is you have more than a passing professional interest in this topic. Is that right?   Gila  04:13 Yeah, so I am a psychologist and a neuropsychologist. And so I recommend to my patients all the time to improve sleep habits with is just so critical for cognitive functioning, emotional functioning, psychological and physical.   Jen Lumanlan  04:27 Okay, cool. Well, thank you very much for telling us about you. Katherine. Who are you? Where are you in the world? Who's your family?   Katherine  04:33 Yes, I'm Katherine, based in Southern Maryland, just outside of DC. I have one daughter who's both three years and three months now. So our bedtime routines have been a little bit inconsistent over time. And lately, at one point we had gotten to a pretty good timing where she was usually in bed and we left the room by 8:30. And now it's kind of crept up to 9:30 by the time we leave, and that leaves very little time for my husband and I to spend time together or just relax, I think that the no set bedtime approach would be exciting to her.   Jen Lumanlan  05:16 It is to most children, yup.   Katherine  05:18 Potentially be really helpful for us. But I am hesitant about, alright, I can see potential challenges with getting her to actually stay in her room while we go do something else. We usually like to just watch a TV show together or, you know, spend time together and I could see her begging to leave her room and spend time with us.   Jen Lumanlan  05:42 Okay, so also like Gila feeling pretty excited about the possibility of this and also like, how on earth is that actually going to work in real life with my real child? Is that right? Okay, so let me tell you how we put this in place for us. And then we can answer all of your questions on behalf of all the parents who are listening to this. So I will say that I'm not sure that everybody who's listening to this necessarily needs to try this approach or to use this approach. I think that one of the main indicators that we can use to say, should we try this approach is maybe something about bedtime is not working for us right now, either, It's not working for the child, and we'll know it's not working for the child because we see them resisting. We see them stalling, we see them not wanting to go to bed, or something isn't working for us. And Katherine, I think you're a great example of that, where you're not necessarily sort of that you're seeing the stalling and eventually the child's getting into bed, and then you get your downtime. It's like your downtime has kind of evaporated at this point. And so something about that is not working for you. And so if the way that we're doing things right now is not working for one or both parties involved, then I think that's a really good reason to consider doing something differently. So we introduced this when my daughter was about two and a half, which even Dr. Winter was pretty shocked by how young she was and basically it came about through resistance to bedtime, and thinking, why are we doing this? Why are we doing this every night, this is harder than it needs to be. What can we shift that can make this potentially easier? Our routine definitely shifted a little bit with how light it is outside and it has also shifted as she's gotten older as well. But in general, what we end up doing is dinner is at around 6:45. And I've cooked every other night. Usually I cook one night and then we have leftovers reheated the second night and dinner itself takes about 20 minutes. So we're coming into the period just after seven o'clock and then we have a good deal of flex time in that hour, that almost hour until about eight. I keep a learning journal for her and I try and keep that out on the end of the dining room table, and so that's my period of the day to write in there. She takes a bath every other day. Sometimes she wants to have playtime if something interesting came in the mail, or we're just back from a trip where we've been exploring national parks, and she didn't finish some of her junior ranger badges and she wants to finish those. So that's sort of a good deal of flex time...