Disintegrator

CW: eating disorders are discussed a few times in this episode.

Vespers is a limited series within Disintegrator that focuses on the creative feedback loops between music and social media. It follows from the Nobody Listens to Music Anymore superlecture, where themes of youth identity formation, reference-as-medium, generative AI, and the complexities of working with the total archive are discussed in more detail.

For this episode, we're joined by Millaze -- an iconic face and musical voice on Instagram. We talk about love, cringe, the open-endedness of her craft (we barely scratch the surface here), and performance.

Favorite Millaze-core:

• Ramen
• Override
• Driveways
• Bedside Table
• Viscera

But I really recommend her Instagram in general (as well as the fountain of Youtube Shorts)

Vespers is a limited series within Disintegrator that focuses on the creative feedback loops between music and social media. It follows from the Nobody Listens to Music Anymore superlecture, where themes of youth identity formation, reference-as-medium, generative AI, and the complexities of working with the total archive are discussed in more detail.

For this episode, we're joined by RayonBase. If you've opened TikTok or Instagram over the past few years, you recognize RayonBase's face, voice, instrumental composition, and video editing style. This is an open-ended conversation about character, craft, love, innocence, and the future. <3 

Favorite RayonBase-core:

• The Swagger Song (Badder Than You)
• EVER CLOSER PT. 2
• Shelter
• Can Eye Kiss You?
• Innocence Found

^ The above are videos / shorts primarily used as teasers for full songs, all of which is available on any streaming platform. 

Artist and curator Dana Dawud joins Disintegrator to talk about Open Secret, her touring platform for internet cinema, and her evolving film series Monad.

We discuss the blur as a visual device and trend, the impossibility of representing Palestine, being trained by AI and building myth in the age of the feed.

The audio is laced with reflections by collaborators orbiting Open Secret: redactedcut @redactedcut, Palais Sinclaire @palais.sinclaire, Mischa Dols @mischaapje, 0nty @the.ontological.turnt, Angel Kether @user_goes_to_kether.

References mentioned:

• Gore Layer by Alex Quicho in Spike (July 2024): https://www.spikeartmagazine.com/articles/discourse-the-gore-layer-alex-quicho,
• The novel Aliens & Anorexia by Chris Kraus: https://www.semiotexte.com/aliens-anorexia-new-edition,
• Further reading on CoreCore by 0nty (July 2023): https://becoming.press/corecore-the-return-of-speculative-irony-by-0nty,
• We spoke about Serge Daney’s observation that “there is no image of Palestine” (or, more precisely, that there is “no complex image of Palestinian reality”) which arises from his deep engagement with the politics and ethics of representation, particularly in the context of Jean-Luc Godard’s film ‘Ici et ailleurs’ (Here and Elsewhere). Read more in Serge Daney’s seminal ‘Before and After the Image’ (1999): https://www.jstor.org/stable/41389528.,
• Watch ‘The Sight is a Wound’ (2025), a visual essay by Parham Ghalamdar: https://www.ghalamdar.com/tsiaw,
• ‘The Fold: Leibniz and the Baroque’ (1988). In this work, Deleuze interprets monads not as isolated points but as folds of space, movement, and time, each containing the world within itself as a unique point of view.,
• Jaques Rivette’s almost-13hr-long-film: ‘Out 1’ (1971),
• Sven Loven at No Gallery: https://www.nononogallery.com/exhibitions/sven-loven-humiliation-ritual/#press-release,

Links to explore Dana’s work:

• Monad+ : https://hybrida.space/monad,
• PalCoreCore: https://donotresearch.substack.com/p/dana-dawud-palcorecore,
• Pleasure Helmet Podcast: https://soundcloud.com/pleasure-helmet-977951874,
• https://www.instagram.com/dansdansrev/,
• https://www.instagram.com/_opensecrett_/

We’re joined by philosopher Peter Wolfendale — a singular voice in contemporary theory, known for his work on autonomy and the metaphysics of cognition. In this episode, we dive deep into the philosophical problems behind artificial general intelligence, not from the angle of safety or speed, but from the standpoint of what it means to think, to revise, and to reproduce.
Peter’s blog and twitter account are legendary (@deontologistics) — more Peter here:

• The Laruelle Thread
• ‘Artificial Bodies and the Promise of Abstraction’
• An excellent thread on Bayesian Solomonoff on his blog 
• ‘The Reformatting of Homo sapiens’
• The Pete Wolfendale Nick Land Debate
• An excellent interview with Peter on Gradient
• Page for Wolfendale’s new, yet unreleased book The Revenge of Reason

SUPPORT THE POD :)  -- preorder our new book! 

CW: There is some brief discussion of abusive familial relationships at several points within this episode.

Two titanic figures in contemporary theory join us for two separate and strongly divergent episodes on the status of revolutionary thought in political philosophy today.

Timothy Morton is one of the most outspoken and controversial voices in the discourse, someone whose impact punched hard into the artworld, defining a decade of new ecological and object-oriented aesthetics. For almost the entire 2010s and much of the 2020s it was hard to read a single exhibition text without recognizing Morton’s impact.

Timothy joins us for an expansive conversation that moves through Buddhism, Christianity, communism, trauma, poetry, and the question of whether “love your neighbor as yourself” might actually be a planetary-scale software instruction. Morton describes communism and Christianity as radically entangled modes of relation, both grounded in care and unknowing.

We strongly recommend:

• Most people should already be familiar with Morton's most iconic concept and contribution: Hyperobjects
• Timothy’s book Ecology Without Nature 
• Their more recent Hell: In Search of a Christian Ecology 
• And we spend a lot of time talking about Spacecraft

In the episode, we also touch on the work of Fredric Jameson, Terry Eagleton, Thomas Merton, Raymond Williams, and Simone Weil.

Two titanic figures in contemporary theory join us for two separate and strongly divergent episodes on the status of revolutionary thought in political philosophy today.
 
Ray Brassier influenced a generation of philosophers not only with his outstanding and highly rigorous writing, but also his absolutely stunning translations of Quentin Meillassoux and François Laruelle, and in so doing is subcutaneously responsible for literally a decade of earthquakes in the discourse. Ray joins us to evaluate the status of Marx in the 21st century.

Ray traces the long arc from Nihil Unbound through Marx, Sellars, and the inferentialist tradition, opening up an unapologetically rationalist framework for understanding both science and emancipation, without reducing either to liberal platitudes or metaphysical fantasies.
 
We discuss the seductive dangers of naive anti-humanism, the legacy of German idealism, the automation of reason, and why political theory today needs to be deeply embedded in materialist accounts of scale, finance, and abstraction. Ray shares a trenchant critique of both the empiricist and idealist strands of Enlightenment thought, offering instead a dialectical, normatively grounded, socially embedded concept of rationality that returns to Kant and Hegel by way of Wilfrid Sellars.
We strongly recommend:

• Ray’s book Nihil Unbound: Enlightenment and Extinction 
• His essay “The View from Nowhere”
• His exceptional piece "Politics of the Rift" on Théorie Communiste in e-flux
• Work from the journal Endnotes (https://endnotes.org.uk/)

In the episode, we also discuss theorists such as Badiou, Larouelle, Meillassoux, and Marxist reinterpretations by Moishe Postone, Théorie Communiste, and the German “New Reading” school. Ray elaborates on how capital’s increasing abstraction—especially in financialized regimes where labor is decoupled from value—is not the end of Marx, but a reason to read Marx more seriously and materially than ever.

It’s such an honor to welcome Giuseppe Longo to the pod! Professor Giuseppe Longo is the Research Director Emeritus at Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique at the École Normale Supérieure in Paris. His work spans mathematics, computer science, biology, especially through the connective theoretical tissue of epistemology. 

Our conversation orbits around the limitations (or specific capacities) of computation, especially as computation becomes more and more central to mainstream theories of thought, being, life, and even physics. Longo pushes back on computationalism, grounding his critique in the sciences and in mathematics, especially as it becomes more and more established as an ideological foundation underneath applied biological research. No, for Longo the body is not a computer, the brain is not a computer, the world is not a computer, and the universe is not a computer — a computer is something altogether very specific, and should be afforded the dignity of its specificity.
 
The title of this episode (imperative pythagoreanism) refers to pythagoreanism (the ancient worship of numbers in the 6th-4th century cult of Pythagorus, specifically the idea that the universe is fundamentally made of and reducible to numbers) and the imperative mode of computation (a determinative command structure).

We’re on with Morgane Billuart, a writer and artist and a researcher whose work engages critically with technologically mediated and determined worlds — not least within her exceptional book “Cycles, the Sacred and the Doomed: Inquiries in Female Health Technologies.” Morgane joins us to talk about a large, recent research project on a particular character that many of us identifies with, what Geert Lovink calls the “critical internet researcher” — a figure who engages in a kind of postdisciplinary media theory while at the same time producing and publishing their work through the very media they are studying, the Online.
We strongly recommend:

• Morgane’s podcasts Becoming the Product and Girl Employee with Carmen Hines
• Morgane’s substack Becoming the Product
• Morgane’s book Cycles, the Sacred and the Doomed: Inquiries in Female Health Technologies on Set Margins

In the episode we discuss the work of Geert Lovink and the Institute of Network Cultures and Joshua Citarella (and the associated entity Do Not Research), and we briefly touch on Yancy Strickler (and the associated MetaLabel), Trust, the New Center for Research and Practice, Are.na, New Models, and RADAR (https://www.radardao.xyz/). All are mentioned in the context of being institutions undertaking the extremely admirable charge of iterating upon new vehicles and structures for the exchange of information.
 
Marek also briefly mentions the blogger RM (@NilsEdison) and the artist Maria Tsylke.

Gordon White is a chaos magician, shamanic practitioner, and permaculture designer based in Tasmania. He podcasts and teaches through the vehicle of Rune Soup, the world's largest magic academy, and he writes prolifically -- not only on the Rune Soup blog but in several incredible books. Gordon's breadth and depth of knowledge is unbelievably humbling, and it was an honor to spend an hour or so with him.

We came to Gordon for perspective, to some bring context and breadth and dimension to our relatively narrow world. Disintegrator sits in a kind of para-academic space, where we tend to limit the things we allow ourselves to write and think in terms of what's acceptable in mainstream academia. And there are so many people in this space, squashed between the outer walls of the academy and a totally vast, teeming ocean of different ways of thinking and being.

((An academic might chastize us for using 'outside' as a kind of euphemism for an alien or an other, but we'd push back -- it is the inside that we're all kind of bunched up against, like feudal serfs huddling for protection and warmth. As we look outside, we've started to speculate about what might be out there, inventing our own 'pseudosacreds' that preoccupy our minds without forcing us to change anything about ourselves.))

Gordon brings sledgehammers from magical practices and shamanic tradtions around the world, alongside a potent alternative canon of Western, and, well, pummels our walls a bit.

Tons of references packed in here, but a good place to start would be his books Chaos Protocols and Ani.Mystic (in order). Marek fell in love with Gordon's world through these three podcast episodes (one, two, three) and this lecture at the Guggenheim (with visual media from friend of the pod Refik Anadol).

Further references:

• A big and loving shoutout to Jay Springett, who just absolutely rules in every possible way, you gotta be a JayMo fan fr.
• Gordon references Dr. Jeff Kripal on the subject of the 'imaginal' -- which becomes a helpful concept later in the episode as we talk through technology. The imaginal is an ontological layer or that is not necessarily physical but still real.
• The most significant reference here is of Eduardo Viveiros de Castro, a Brazillian anthropologist discussed in the context of pespectivism and what a truly decolonized anthropology (and philosophy) might look like.
• Gordon references Ephesisans 6:12 ("powers and principalities") in the context of a Christian ontology that affords an idea the status of a being.
• Dr. Jack Hunter's concept of "ontological flooding" -- an "opening of the floodgates" of what is discussible in ontological terms. Here's a discussion on the subject from 2021.
• Marek references a recent trend in philosophy ("object oriented ontology") that grapples with the autonomy of the non-human world. This episode is cheekily named after Quentin Meillassoux's concept of the "great outdoors" -- a plane of reality that exceeds human experience or human conception.
• Gordon references Paracelsus, Edgar Cayce, Rudolf Steiner, and Allan Kardec in the context of a Western spiritualist canon.
• Gordon discusses Matías De Stefano specifically in the context of mineral intelligence. Here's an absolutely wild talk on the subject.
• For those unfamiliar, the "Dieta" that Gordon refers to is a period of isolation, strict diet, and deep work with plant medicines like ayahuasca.

Ambient track is 'Respect for the Medium' by friend of the pod They Became What They Beheld, show them some love on Bandcamp.

You already follow @avocado_ibuprofen. His memes IV-ed into the arm of the artworld, circulating through the DMs; they are acidic and thereaputic, they throw up solidarity through critique and gentle negation. We talk about art education, disappointment, exhaustion, glamour, and a beautiful idea (automating the viewer) he began to expand upon in an interview with Valentinas Klimašauskas here.

Buy his mugs. 

Memes we discuss:

1. (Selling Mugs Galaxy Brain)
2. (Phone/Pocket/Lineage)
3. (AI Meme 1, AI Meme 2)

Ambient track is 'Respect for the Medium' by friend of the pod They Became What They Beheld, show them some love on Bandcamp.

Few people have done more to define the contemporary media theory landscape than Alex Quicho @amfq, an indefinable thinker and artist and intellectual force who brought Girl Theory to the front and center of The Discourse. 

One note, friend of the pod Morgane Billuart has also just released an interview with Alex on her excellent podcast Becoming the Product. We don't believe there's such a thing as too much AMFQ. Morgane is an upcoming guest for us too, so it's a nice trifecta!

In terms of Quicho-core:

• Everyone is a Girl Online (September 2023) -- if you haven't read it, HARD RECCO.
• The Aura Points lecture (December 2024)
• Small Gods: Perspective on the Drone (May 2021) 
• GIRLSTACK at BODYSTACK
• The amazing girlstack substack -- because everyone is a girl and everyone is online ;)

Key references and concepts from the pod include:

• Helena shouts out Bogna Konior whose work is absolutely at the top of the top atm. We love her lecture ANGELS IN LATENT SPACES omg.
• When identifying AI with/as a girl, Alex leverages concepts from K Allado-McDowell on model-as-self.
• Alex references Sayak Valencia's Gore Capitalism and Maggie Nelson's The Art of Cruelty on media representations of violence
• We briefly chat about Maya B. Kronik and Amy Ireland's "cute accelerationism" paradigm and their year-defining book on the topic.
• Alex grabs some concepts from Paul Virilio and Susan Sontag's foundational work on photography, violence and war, Edward Glissant's work on opacity and resistance, Benedict Singleton's traps and levers, Helen Hester and the Laboria Cuboniks collective's xenofeminism, Tiqqun's young girl, and (IYKYK) Luciana Parisi's absolutely singular "Abstract Sex" (the book that brough Roberto and Marek 2gether).
• Marek shouts out master of blur Dana Dawud's Monad series.
• Helena references artist Zein Majali's work "Propane" and Jennie Livingston's generation-defining "Paris is Burning."

On finishing the project of music, on TikTokCore and SpotifyCore, on music as cosplay and the technicity of cultural imperialism, on the bureaucratic turn in the arts, on being dangerous. Lecture given for my beloved DMR at Columbia University at the beginning of December.
 
Feeling a bit bolder than usual on this one, but it's cuz my toddler is sleeping good. <3 
 
Shoutouts included at the top. Shoutouts to EPFL Pavilions and especially Jonathan Impett, who I revere, for giving me an initial platform for my obnoxious ideas.
 
Also — Liz Pelly’s new piece for Harpers is extremely relevant here: https://harpers.org/archive/2025/01/the-ghosts-in-the-machine-liz-pelly-spotify-musicians/. Thanks to Micah Silver for pointing me to it, and for introducing me to Alex Reisner, who completely blew my mind open on the subject of copyright law.

Thanks to the Wire for distilling this entire thing into one sentence.

Reinforced shoutout to New Models we <3 u. Don't listen to this, listen to their interview w/ Holly Herndon and Mat Dryhurst instead.

2025 babyyyyyyyy

No notes, pure vivid realness and realism.

Li Zhenhua is a major force in the art world, especially in film.

A tone poem from Torino. 

Marek's favorite episode.

Two of our discourse besties from UAL's Fashion Media Practice & Criticism -- experiential designers Daniel Felstead and Jenn Leung -- join us to talk Janky Capitalism (the obvious falling-apart weirdness of the world while capital spins off farther and farther away from it, leaving us behind), Roblox, and neural media. 

You probably know their work from the iconic 'The Metaverse in Janky Capitalism' on Dis and its associated 'Literally No Place' and 'Always on My Mind' -- or from associated speaking / discourse production all over the internet (++ more on Jenn (link) and Daniel (link)).

References from the pod include:

• Ruba Al-Sweel's awesome piece for SQD: 'Sandbox Semiotics' referenced in the intro.
• Jenn references artworld queen Anna Uddenberg (e.g. 'Continental Breakfast'), Harvard's GSD's Guide to Shopping, and Ian Bogost (whose critique of anthropomorphism in video games we really relate to).
• Daniel references Sam Cummins from Nymphet Alumni, a favorite podcast that everyone should already know and spend all their time listening to.
• Daniel references Catherine Malabou's concept of plasticity (throughout her work, typically referencing neuroscientific plasticisty, here used in its more generalized form).
• The second half of the episode spends some time with the theory of K. Allado-McDowell, specifically the concept of neural media. We could not recommend this episode of our other favorite podcast (New Models) more strongly.
• Roberto mentions Zachary Horton's 'Cosmic Zoom', which is our obsession atm.

Ok enjoyyyy byee!

Blaise Agüera y Arcas is one of most important people in AI, and apart from his leadership position as CTO of Technology & Society at Google, he has one of those resumes or affiliations lists that seems to span a lot of very fundamental things. He’s amazing; the thoughtfulness and generosity with which he communicates on this episode gently embraced our brains while lazering them to mush. We hope you have the same experience.
 
References include:

• Blaise’s own books Who Are We Now?, Ubi Sunt, and the upcoming What Is Intelligence?
• He references James C. Scott’s Seeing Like a State, which we strongly recommend, Benjamin Peters’ How Not to Network a Nation, and Red Plenty by Francis Spufford.
• Strong recommendation also to Benjamin Labatut’s When We Cease to Understand the World.
• Roberto references Luciana Parisi’s Abstract Sex (our favorite book!) and the work of Lynn Margulis with respect to biology and reproduction.
• Blaise references James E. Lovelock’s project “Daisyworld” with respect to the Gaia hypothesis.
• He also references the Active Inference thesis, e.g. that of Karl J. Friston, and the work of Dan Sperber and Hugo Mercer on reason.
• The cellular automata work referenced here involves the Von Neumann cellular automaton and the Wolfram neural cellular automaton.

Wish us a happy 1 year anniversary of the pod!

A very warm welcome to Helena McFadzean, who is joining the Disintegrator wrecking crew.
 
This week’s episode features one of our favorite artists, Tega Brain. In this episode, we talk through two of our favorite pieces, both of which are not just great exercises in conceptual design, but are actual practical engineering projects whose artistry consists in real solutioning.
References from the pod:

• Sam Lavigne is an artist and engineer and educator whose collaborates frequently with Tega Brain. Both his creative technical work and his writing are highly recommended.
• The two pieces we talk about most are Cold Call, a collaboration with Sam Levine, and Solar Protocol, a collaboration with Alex Nathanson, and Benedetta Piantella, among others.
• Tega references the Critical Engineering group (Julian Oliver, Gordan Savičić, Danja Vasiliev), whose manifesto is very much worth reading, and 100rabbits, whose blog and methodological work are super super engaging.
• In climate-related discussions, we talk about Dark Emu by Bruce Pascoe, Robin Wall Kimmerer’s Breeding Sweetgrass, Holly Jean Buck’s Ending Fossil Fuels, the concept of ‘feral computing’ from Austin Wade Smith, and the data work by Crowther Lab on forest development.
• Marek briefly mentions Joshua Citarella’s absolutely phenomenal ‘A Public Option for Social Media’.

Thanks for your patience while both Roberto and Marek were in mega-travel mega-project mode. We will be releasing something very large in the next few weeks to make up for it. :) 

Here’s a gem from our archive, a recording with Jonathan Impett — Director of Research at the Orpheus Instituut.
 
Impett has had a MAJOR impact on Roberto and Marek, a kind of intellectual godfather to the two of us. His staggering breadth of knowledge continues to blow our minds. You can find more about Impett's work here. 

A number of references from the discussion include: 

1. Impett's chapter in Choreomata is awesome. Buy our book! :) 
2. Impett references Alexander Nagel and Chris Wood's Anachronic Renaissance an unbelievably ambitious tome that delves into the situatedness of art both inside and outside of the Renaissance.
3. A few California references -- Jonathan tags in Swarm and references the composer Brian Ferneyhough. 
4. We're all Reza Negarestani fans here -- for more about computational interactionism, check out Reza's epsiode of the pod, Anil Bawa-Cavia's episode of the pod, and Reza's absolutely mondo Intelligence and Spirit.
5. At the time of the interview, Matteo Pasquinelli's influential The Eye of the Master had not yet been released and is referenced as an upcoming release.
6. For more information on the "waste product" -- Alain Badiou's Immanence of Truths is actually pretty forthcoming in this respect. 
7. Jonathan also references After Sound, a very timely read by G. Douglas Barrett.

Majorly excited to have Patricia Reed on the pod. This is a beefy episode! If I was looking for a major reset in my relationship to the world around me, I'd start here.

Here’s a list of the references we make throughout the interview:

1. Here's that e-flux diagram I talk about in the intro, and here's a lecture in which she discusses this diagram. Here's the Diagramming the Common piece, which is older but I really like it. 
2. Here's a must-read interview with Denise Ferreira da Silva where the concept of "the end of the world as we know it" is postulated.
3. When Patricia Reed refers to the "logics of worlds" in a Badiousian sense, she's referring to Alain Badiou's work on truth and world. Unless you're down for a real rabbithole, you're likely good with Reed's description here.
4. Reed references Margaret Morrison and the Black-Scholes model in the context of finance.
5. Reed references Sylvia Wynter's work consistently, specifically her discussion of humanism and of Frantz Fanon.
6. Check out Beth Coleman's work on Octavia Butler AI, as well as da Silva's "Unpayable Debt" (inspired by Butler's Kindred) -- and if you somehow haven't read the Lilith's Brood Trilogy after we discussed it with Luciana Parisi, go read it (aka Xenogenesis). It's like idk the most important work of fiction in the last 50 years idk!!!
7. Ofc big shoutouts as always Anil Bawa-Cavia -- this is the book we discuss toward the end of the episode.
8. If you aren't aware of Laboria Cuboniks and the XFM, stop listening and read it!!!

This episode features one of our most anticipated guests: M. Beatrice Fazi.

M. Beatrice Fazi is a philosopher working in philosophy of computation, philosophy of technology and media philosophy. In this episode we mostly cover some key definitions relating to computation and its onto-epistemology grounded in Fazi’s landmark book, Contingent Computation: Abstraction, Experience, and Indeterminacy in Computational Aesthetics published in 2018. But our discussion doesn't end in 2018.

Now more than ever, Fazi`s work on computation holds unbelievable importance with wide-ranging implications. Philosophy is becoming a major foil to technocapital and technopolitics, forcing us to seriously (re)consider fundamental questions about technology and correlated fundamentals of knowledge and being.

Ever wondered what computation actually is? According to Fazi, it exists and unfolds not only as a function, but also as a creative modality forming its own conditions for existence. This episode dives deep into the concept of computation as an autonomous form of thought and creation, that is nevertheless contingent, i.e. not independent from the material conditions of the world.

We move further into Fazis more recent work in ontology: the triangulation of abstraction, representation and thought. This pushes us into massive questions - what does computation mean for the future of thought? How should we conceptualize the relationship between humans and technology? And why should we rethink the idea of technology as merely an extension of ourselves?

Relevant Links & References:

• Fazi’s landmark book, Contingent Computation: Abstraction, Experience, and Indeterminacy in Computational Aesthetics—still essential reading for anyone interested in the philosophy of technology. About the fundamentals of what computation does and what material, ontological and epistemological consequences this holds. 
• Brian Cantwell Smith’s essay, “The Foundations of Computing” (2003)—a text we explore, even if Fazi offers a different perspective on the nature of computation.
• Oh, also, look to Anil Bawa-Cavia's (life changing) episode of Interdependence, where he enumerates further on computational functionalism, computational realism, but more importantly for more color on the paths to incompleteness traced in Gödel and Turing -- to which Fazi builds her main thesis: these incompletenesses are actually strengths and not limitations of computation.

Pls like and subscribe or leave a review or whatever we're a baby podcast that's doing huge things!

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