Ep #9: Hollie Lubbock & Josh Payton (Wise): How Wise Is Rebuilding the Designer's Workflow for the Age of AI

Hollie Lubbock (Design Director) and Josh Payton (VP of Design) at Wise join Jonny and Tom on the Near Future Podcast to unpack how their design org has rewired itself around AI — from prototyping kits that let anyone "hold" an idea, to the hidden operational grind behind every flashy AI demo. They dig into why disciplines aren't collapsing (they're specializing further), why AI is "an averaging machine," and what it takes to stand out when everyone has the same tools. Plus: a rapid-fire round covering deleted tools, current inspirations, and what they'll do when AGI takes over.

Chapters
0:04 — Intro & guest welcome
0:49 — What day-to-day design at Wise looks like right now with AI
2:27 — The early prototyping kit that made AI feel "magical"
4:45 — Solo missions vs. collaboration in AI-driven work
6:07 — The "agent-operator" workflow trap
7:16 — Why scale (8,000 employees) changes the risk calculus
7:33 — How AI adoption varies across design disciplines
8:58 — The unglamorous ops work behind AI prototypes (InfoSec, workflows)
16:49 — Talent development: grads, internships, apprenticeships
19:03 — The three traits that matter most: smart, ambitious, curious
19:49 — Why design disciplines aren't collapsing
20:41 — "AI raises the floor, not the ceiling" — differentiation matters more
24:32 — Josh's 2x2 framework: when to let AI/PMs skip design entirely
29:37 — AI as an "averaging machine" and the tells of AI-generated work
32:13 — A WALL-E-inspired vision of the future
33:15 — Betting on human-curated, handcrafted experiences
34:36 — Josh's secret AI-built app project
35:15 — Josh's actual design process, tool by tool
37:27 — His AI agent fleet: Claude Code, Cowork, and more
39:47 — Bounded validity and lessons from engineering-first principles
42:24 — Quick-fire round begins
43:16 — What they'll never hand over to AI: curation
44:22 — The last tool they deleted (and why)
45:25 — What's inspiring them right now
46:58 — Wrap-up & where to find Hollie and Josh

Useful Links

Josh Payton, VP of Design at Wise
https://www.joshpayton.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshpayton

Hollie Lubbock, Design Director at Wise
https://www.hollielubbock.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hollielubbock/

Podcast feedback: [email protected]
Near Future workshop (Aug 13th): nearfuture.works/build
Find us at nearfuture.works

Click here to view the episode transcript.