All Things Product with Teresa and Petra

What we talk about:

• Why project funding clashes with discovery work
• What CFOs look for in project-based funding
• The benefits of shifting to funding teams instead
• Step one: Fund the team, step two: Assign an outcome
• Helping finance teams make the shift
• Role of product ICs vs. product leaders in finance conversations
• Translating between product and finance language
• Naming conventions and how to make them finance-friendly
• VC-style funding for teams: Fund based on learning and outcomes
• Case study: Agency using per-iteration funding
• Product teams understanding their cost and return
• The mismatch between incremental thinking and ROI
• Why product teams must aim for exponential outcomes

Key Takeaways:

• Funding teams instead of projects supports flexibility, learning, and continuous discovery.
• Assigning clear outcomes to teams helps maintain accountability and aligns with finance goals.
• Product people (especially ICs!) can be powerful allies in helping finance understand value creation.
• Understanding team costs—and expected return—is critical for sustainable product development.
• Bridging the language and mindset gap between product and finance is a core leadership skill.

Resources & Links:

• Follow Teresa Torres: https://ProductTalk.org
• Follow Petra Wille: https://Petra-Wille.com

Mentioned in the episode:

• Product vs. Project Operating Models - Teresa and Petra reference their past episode on this foundational concept.
• Felix Fichtl: Profitability Unplugged: Navigating Data Gaps While Delivering Financial Insights (Felix is a CFO who spoke at Product at Heart 2024 on bridging finance and product (check out his talk if you can find it).
• David Bland, in a conversation with Barry O'Reilly about his book Testing Business Ideas: A Field Guide for Rapid Experimentation, contrasts traditional annual project budgeting with an “internal VC-style” funding approach.
• Tristan Kromer discussed alternative funding models that move away from traditional annual project budgeting in his Four Must-Haves in Your Innovation Process

What we talk about:

• Why Petra created the Product Leadership Wheel
• The 3 big buckets of product leadership: People, Product, and Ways of Working
• What self-assessment can (and can’t) tell you
• Real talk about product leadership overwhelm—and how to manage it
• The risk of prematurely splitting leadership responsibilities
• How to help your team step up without abdicating leadership

Exclusive Sneak Peek: This episode includes early insights from Petra’s upcoming email course for product leaders. It’s a behind-the-scenes look before the full framework goes public.

Resources & Links:

• Follow Teresa Torres: https://ProductTalk.org
• Follow Petra Wille: https://Petra-Wille.com

Mentioned in the episode:

• Petra’s The Product Leadership Wheel - A Framework for Defining and Growing Product Leadership at Scale
• Petra’s The PMwheel – a Compass for the Product Manager Development Journey
• Petra’s book: Strong Product People
• Y Oslo - MANAGING UP by Petra Wille
• The PMwheel in Action: A Conversation with Arne Kittler, VP Product at XING
• Petra’s How and why I decided to create the PLwheel
• Previous episode: What is Product Ops?

What You’ll Learn:

• Why “free to build” doesn’t mean “no cost”
• How AI prototyping tools help with assumption testing
• Common pitfalls (and how to avoid them)
• Why engineering skills still matter in a no-code world
• The types of prototypes that are perfect for AI tools
• How these tools change team collaboration and speed

Key Takeaways:

• AI tools can help build usable prototypes in hours—not weeks.
• These tools are great for fast, interactive assumption tests.
• You still need engineering know-how to troubleshoot or guide LLMs effectively.
• Product teams benefit most when they build and test together.
• Even failed prototypes offer valuable learning.

Episode Quote: “Even if the cost to build goes to zero, if you keep building the wrong thing, you're still wasting your life.” – Teresa Torres

Resources & Links:

• Follow Teresa Torres: https://ProductTalk.org
• Follow Petra Wille: https://Petra-Wille.com

Mentioned in this episode:

• Large language model (LLM)
• ChatGPT
• Claude (Anthropic API)
• Teresa’s Continuous Interviewing Course (where she introduced a custom chat interface app, allowing students to interact with a ChatGPT-style tool powered by her own prompts and proprietary data)
• Petra’s The PMwheel – a Compass for the Product Manager Development Journey
• Vibe coding
• Teresa’s Assumption Testing Course
• Jeff Patton’s drawing of the three people having different pictures in their head about one thing
• Replit
• V0.dev
• Bolt
• Lovable
• WindSurf

Key Topics Covered:

• What product ops is not—and why the role is often misunderstood
• Different models of product ops across organizations
• Product ops vs. product leadership: where’s the line?
• When to hire a product ops person (and when not to)
• The enabling team model from Team Topologies
• Why Teresa and Petra are wary of “methodology police” in discovery
• How product ops can support skill building, analytics, and communication standards
• The shipyard metaphor: keeping the environment healthy for empowered teams
• Coaching as a product ops responsibility—helpful or risky?

Key Takeaways:

• Product ops isn't a checklist hire—it’s a strategic move to fill specific gaps
• The best product ops folks blend a product mindset with another core strength (e.g. analytics, L&D, change management)
• Not all gaps should be filled by product ops—sometimes it’s about enabling HR, data, or leadership to step up
• Product ops is a great career path for senior PMs who don’t want to move - into people leadership but still want to shape the organization

Resources & Links:

• Follow Teresa Torres: https://ProductTalk.org
• Follow Petra Wille: https://Petra-Wille.com

Mentioned in the episode:

• Product Operations by Melissa Perri and Denise Tilles
• Strong Product People and Strong Product Communities by Petra Wille
• Learning and development (L&D)
• Team Topologies by Matthew Skelton and Manuel Pais
• Petra’s Coaching Cards (DIY Edition) / Purchase the DIY kit
• Petra’s related blog posts on leading effective one-on-ones: - Struggling to Find the Time to Develop Your Product Managers? Start Here, - The Ultimate Coaching Question: What Are You Going to Do Differently?, and - The Product Leader’s Guide to Giving Feedback
• A note from Petra: “In case people own my first book, 'Strong Product People, ' these chapters talk about 1:1s and coaching: Chapter 6: Identifying and Closing Product Manager Gaps, Chapter 7: The Power of Coaching, Chapter 8: Monitoring Performance and Giving Feedback (a good read for one-on-one prep), Chapter 10: Building Individual and Team Alignment, and Chapter 11: How to Find the Time? (especially helpful for busy leaders)."

Key topics we cover:

• Why not all outcomes need to be measurable—especially on day one
• Teresa’s story: shifting from “applications” to “hires” as a more meaningful outcome
• How to work toward measurable outcomes over time
• Petra Wille explains how the HEART framework can help teams track value, not just numbers
• The difference between metrics, signals, and goals
• How to define outcomes when you're pre-product or pre-metrics
• Why focusing on value creation moments leads to better product strategy
• What most people get wrong about “finding product-market fit”

Resources & Links:

• Follow Teresa Torres: https://ProductTalk.org
• Follow Petra Wille: https://Petra-Wille.com

Mentioned in the episode:

• Teresa’s blog post: Shifting from Outputs to Outcomes: Why It Matters and How to Get Started
• Google’s HEART Framework
• Teresa’s blog post: How Continuous Discovery Works (and Doesn’t) in Early-Stage Startups
• Product/Market fit survey by Sean Ellis and GoPractice

Topics Covered

• The Trend That Sparked This Episode: Petra flags a shift she’s noticing: more folks joining communities asking, “What can I get?” instead of, “How can I help?”
• Why Communities Matter: The unexpected long-term benefits of engaging in a community—and how the payoff often comes years down the road.
• The Origin Story of Petra & Teresa’s Connection: A short, enthusiastic conference interaction leads to years of collaboration and friendship.
• What Giving Actually Looks Like: The difference between offering value and unsolicited advice. (Spoiler: one builds trust, the other breaks it.)
• Behind the Scenes of Conferences & Course Communities: How Petra and Teresa handle entitlement, scholarship requests, and volunteering—and why the approach matters.
• Online Community Behavior: From Slack spamming to thoughtful sharing: how to show up well in digital spaces.
• Choosing Where to Engage: Why less is more when it comes to online communities—and how to pick the right ones for deeper involvement.
• Mentorship, Giving at Any Level, and the Power of Small Gestures: Even a thank-you note or recipe can go a long way. Giving isn’t transactional—it's relational.

Key Takeaways

• Give before you ask. Community thrives when people contribute without - expecting immediate returns.
• Quality > quantity. You don’t need to be everywhere—just pick a few communities and show up consistently.
• A little effort goes a long way. Whether it's sharing your learnings or offering to help, even small contributions can lead to big connections.
• Be mindful of timing and tone. Offering value is great—unless it’s delivered like a sales pitch or advice no one asked for.
• Communities remember generosity. Years later, people still remember who offered help, not who just wanted the mic.

Resources & Links:

• Follow Teresa Torres: https://ProductTalk.org
• Follow Petra Wille: https://Petra-Wille.com

Mentioned in this episode:

• Meetup
• ProductTank
• Slack
• LinkedIn
• Mind the Product San Francisco 2019
• Petra’s Coaching Cards
• Petra’s Books
• Teresa’s Book
• Barry O’Reilly’s book, Unlearn: Let Go of Past Success to Achieve Extraordinary Results
• Teresa’s Product Discovery Courses
• Teresa’s CDH Membership Community
• Lenny’s Newsletter Slack Community

Topics Covered:

• The Big Question: Can product and project models run side by side?
• Defining the Operating Models: Breakdown of product vs. project models. Why outcomes vs. outputs matter.
• Why the Shift Happened: How the history of software delivery shaped our current challenges.
• When Project Models Still Make Sense: Examples like GDPR, accessibility, and other one-off initiatives.
• Gray Areas and Edge Cases: Accessibility, internal compliance, and examples from Petra’s course work.
• Framing Work as Product or Project: Why even product teams need to think in project terms sometimes.
• Working Cross-Functionally: How to collaborate with HR, Finance, and other departments still in project mode.
• Dual Lenses, Not Rival Camps: Seeing your work through both frameworks, depending on context and constraints.
• Pattern Recognition Over Time: Learning when to switch models based on repeating challenges.
• Feedback Loops and “Done-ness”: How feedback loops reveal whether work is actually finished—or just paused.

Key Takeaways:

• Don’t get dogmatic: models are tools, not rules.
• Project models work well for one-time, compliance-driven work.
• Product models shine with evergreen challenges and durable teams.
• You can—and often should—use both lenses.
• Feedback loops help determine whether something is truly done.

Resources & Links:

• Follow Teresa Torres: https://ProductTalk.org
• Follow Petra Wille: https://Petra-Wille.com

Mentioned in the episode:

• The Product Operating Model by Marty Cagan
• General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR)
• Product Discovery Courses by Teresa
• Okta
• Outlook

Topics Covered:

• Why saying no is an essential part of being a product manager
• How to embrace the reality that there’s always more work than you can do
• Creating systems for capturing and evaluating ideas from anywhere
• Frameworks for deciding: Is it right for my team? Is it right right now?
• How to manage stakeholder expectations with transparency and regular rituals
• The difference between a hard no, a not yet, and an easy yes
• The importance of small wins and the value of a "Friday afternoon list"
• Balancing strategic focus with room for spontaneous moments of customer love

Key quotes:

• "You’re not Santa Claus. You can’t give everyone what they want."
• "Good ideas can come from anywhere — the hard part is choosing the right ones for right now."
• "A motivated engineering team is sometimes the best outcome you can deliver."

Resources & Links:

• Follow Teresa Torres: https://ProductTalk.org
• Follow Petra Wille: https://Petra-Wille.com

Mentioned in the episode:

• HIPPO prioritization model
• Shifting from Outputs to Outcomes: Why It Matters and How to Get Started
• 6 Guiding Principles for Effective Product Discovery
• Idea backlog
• Ask the Community: What Do You Do When You Inherit a Giant Product Backlog?
• Opportunity Solution Trees: Visualize Your Discovery to Stay Aligned and Drive Outcomes
• How Linear builds product from Lenny’s Newsletter
• Product Discovery Course by Teresa

Topics Covered:

• Why the Product at Heart leadership event in Barcelona was canceled—and what it taught us
• The hidden stigma of coaching for leaders
• Vulnerability as a leadership skill
• The Learning Menu framework: how to invest in your development at any budget level
• From free resources to high-ticket coaching—how to choose the right growth path
• Reflection, journaling, and emotional resilience in product leadership
• The importance of finding your learning “dojo”
• How conferences offer more than just talks (think: peer benchmarking and teaching tactics)
• Ethical coaching boundaries and what happens when coaching reveals misalignment

Resources & Links:

• Follow Teresa Torres: https://ProductTalk.org
• Follow Petra Wille: https://Petra-Wille.com

Mentioned in the episode:

• Product at Heart
• Product Talk Academy - Teresa’s Product Discovery Courses
• Coaching for Product Leaders/Executives with Petra Wille
• Behind the founder: Drew Houston (Dropbox) - Lenny Rachitsky’s podcast episode with Drew Houston
• How the “Learning Menu” Concept Can Help Develop Your Product Team - Petra’s Learning Menu article
• Harvard Business Review
• Meetup
• Product Talk Blog - Teresa’s blog
• Product Leadership Blog - Petra’s blog
• Product Talk Academy Free Mini Courses - Teresa’s free mini-course
• Continuous Discovery Habits Membership - Teresa’s community for continuous discovery practitioners and features monthly leadership calls.
• Quarterly Leadership Newsletter with Petra
• Continuous Discovery Habits - Teresa’s book
• STRONG Product People and STRONG Product Communities - Petra’s books
• Workshops by David Bland and Jeff Gothelf
• Maven Learning’s Lightning Lessons
• Toastmasters International
• Christina Wodtke’s book Present Yourself
• Finding Your Learning Headline - from Petra’s blog post

Topics Covered:

• The problem with traditional prioritization models like ICE and RICE
• Why “avoid prioritization at all costs” is more than just a catchy phrase
• Comparing and contrasting vs. spreadsheet-driven guesswork
• Tactical ways to clean up your backlog:
• Auto-closing old tickets
• Archiving items no one understands
• Using themes, initiatives, and user group tagging
• The "Inbox Zero" approach to product management
• How to use strategic filters (outcomes + customer needs) instead of prioritizing everything
• The importance of early wins when inheriting a new product or team
• Time-boxed onboarding for product folks who are new to a team
• Real-world stories & examples:
• Petra shares how automatic ticket pruning saved hundreds of items
• Teresa’s database “one-day project” that took a full week (and what it reveals about hidden work)
• How to carve out time for discovery—even in a feature factory

Resources & Links:

• Follow Teresa Torres: https://ProductTalk.org
• Follow Petra Wille: https://Petra-Wille.com

Mentioned in the episode:

• ICE, RICE, MICE, and VICE Scoring Models developed by Sean Ellis
• Jira
• My Organization Doesn't Work That Way - All Things Product with Teresa & Petra
• Opportunity Solution Trees: Visualize Your Discovery to Stay Aligned and Drive Outcomes
• Inbox Zero coined by Merlin Mann
• Ask the Community: What Do You Do When You Inherit a Giant Product Backlog?
• STRONG Product People: A Complete Guide to Developing Great Product Managers - Book by Petra Wille
• Illustration from Petra’s book about early wins and building trust during onboarding

Topics Covered

• What is product strategy anyway?
• The myth of the “explicit strategy” in most companies
• What discovery tells us about implicit strategy
• How product teams influence (and challenge) strategy
• Why writing any strategy down is better than none
• Shifting from top-down to emergent strategy
• The role of product leaders: Think customer interviews, but with your teams
• Balancing long-term macro trends with day-to-day user discovery
• Strategy ≠ roadmap: Keeping your plan for winning alive and adaptive
• Case studies: Intercom, Spotify, and strategy-in-action
• Product teams as strategic sensors: Patterns, signals, and customer segments
• Building strategy into quarterly and annual planning cadences
• Wrapping up: Strategy is iterative—so treat it that way

Resources & Links:

• Follow Teresa Torres: https://ProductTalk.org
• Follow Petra Wille: https://Petra-Wille.com

Mentioned in this episode:

• Roger Martin’s definition of strategy
• Lenny’s Podcast with Chandra Janakiraman, where he shares a framework for developing strategy
• Megan Murphy’s “priming the wall” concept, introduced in her talk at the - MTP Engage Leadership Forum
• 7 Powers: The Foundations of Business Strategy by Hamilton Helmer
• Blue Ocean Strategy
• Porter's Five Forces Framework
• Good Strategy Bad Strategy: The Difference and Why It Matters by Richard Rumelt
• SWOT analysis
• Intercom’s Fin AI
• Spotify

Topics Covered:

• Why more people should consider public speaking—and how to get started
• How Petra approaches talk creation: mind maps, card decks, and structured rehearsal
• Teresa’s top-down talk-building method focused on audience transformation
• What makes a good “first talk” (hint: show your work!)
• Why meetup organizers want to hear from new speakers—especially women and underrepresented voices
• Tips for managing stage fright, finding your voice, and choosing your topic
• How big-stage talks (like Product at Heart and Y Oslo) come together over months
• The surprising power of impromptu lines—and how to leave room for them
• Matching your prep process to your stage and experience level
• How public speaking sharpens your thinking and deepens your learning

Resources & Links:

• Follow Teresa Torres: https://ProductTalk.org
• Follow Petra Wille: https://Petra-Wille.com

Mentioned in the episode:

• How I Go About Creating a Talk: My Step-by-Step Process by Petra Wille
• Nancy Duarte's books
• Myers–Briggs Type Indicator
• Opportunity Solution Trees: Visualize Your Discovery to Stay Aligned and Drive Outcomes
• The Creative Act: A Way of Being by Rick Rubin
• Cicero Public Speaking Deck – Petra’s go-to tool for structuring talks
• Melissa Suzuno - our mutual blog editor

Places to give your first talks:

• Meetup
• ProductTank
• ProductCamp
• Toastmasters International

Conferences mentioned:

• TED
• Product at Heart
• Product Management Festival
• Mind the Product Conference

Some of our talks:

• Continuous Discovery Habits with Teresa for Y Oslo
• Managing Up with Petra for Y Oslo
• Justify Your Product Decisions and get Stakeholder Buy in – Teresa Torres, Mind the Product SF 2019
• Even You Can Do Continuous Discovery - Bringing the - Discovery Habits to Every Organization – Teresa Torres, - Product at Heart 2023

Key Takeaways:

• Why capacity planning often fails outcome-driven teams
• How teams can self-align without overcommitting
• Reframing quarterly planning to support discovery work
• A listener call-to-action: what’s actually working for you?

Resources & Links:

• Follow Teresa Torres: https://ProductTalk.org
• Follow Petra Wille: https://Petra-Wille.com

Mentioned in the episode:

• Capacity planning
• Product Discovery Basics: Everything You Need to Know
• Yesterday's Weather methodology
• The rocks, pebbles, and sand analogy
• The problem-solution-implementation-discovery model from Petra’s Coaching Illustrations
• Assumption Testing: Everything You Need to Know to Get Started
• Shifting from Outputs to Outcomes: Why It Matters and How to Get Started

Topics Covered:

• Why the product coaching landscape feels so crowded right now
• The key coaching settings (individual vs. group vs. team coaching)
• When each setting makes the most sense (and what to watch out for)
• Types of product coaching:

1. General Product Coaching
2. Product Discovery Coaching
3. Product Career Coaching
4. Product Leadership Coaching

• The difference between a product leadership coach and an - executive coach
• How to approach coaching as part of your learning journey
• Should you or your company pay for coaching?
• How to get the most out of coaching (and avoid wasting your time or money)

Resources & Links:

• Follow Teresa Torres: https://ProductTalk.org
• Follow Petra Wille: https://Petra-Wille.com

Mentioned in the episode:

• Coaching for Product Leaders/Executives by Petra Wille
• How to Decide What Type of Product Coach is Right for You
• When Should You NOT Work with a Coach?
• How to make the most of your coaching sessions
• Is your company ready for Product Operating Model Coaching?
• Product Trios: What They Are, Why They Matter, and How to Get Started
• Assumption Testing: Everything You Need to Know to Get Started
• Training vs. Coaching - All Things Product with Teresa & Petra episode
• ProductTank
• Meetup
• Slack
• Continuous Interviewing Course by Teresa Torres
• Communication Strategies for Managers with Kim Nicol
• Asking for Training Budget video with Teresa Torres and Kim Nicol
• Types of Product Coaching by Marty Cagan

Topics Covered:

• Why discovery principles are consistent across B2B and B2C
• Incentives and recruiting differences in B2B contexts
• How to navigate buyer vs. end user dynamics
• The role of procurement, compliance, and legal in enterprise deals
• Why ecosystems matter more than labels like “B2B” or “B2C”
• The value of cross-role discovery and how to approach it
• Practical tips for accessing users in complex orgs
• Making friends with sales and customer success to unlock discovery opportunities

Key Takeaway:
B2B and B2C discovery share more in common than we often assume. It’s less about the label and more about understanding your specific users, buyers, and stakeholders—and staying laser-focused on your desired outcomes.

Resources & Links:

• Follow Teresa Torres: https://ProductTalk.org
• Follow Petra Wille: https://Petra-Wille.com

Key Takeaways:

• Training ≠ Coaching. Training builds foundational knowledge and skills. Coaching helps you apply them in your unique context.
• Skill building takes structured practice. Reading a book isn’t enough—people need reps, feedback, and guided experiences.
• Coaching is most valuable when teams already have baseline skills and face org-specific blockers.
• You don’t need to be a certified coach to be effective. Experience in the craft and knowing how to support others in real-world contexts is often more important.
• Leaders need targeted learning, too. But leadership-specific product training is still hard to find.

Resources & Links:

• Follow Teresa Torres: https://ProductTalk.org
• Follow Petra Wille: https://Petra-Wille.com

Mentioned in the episode:

• Becoming a Product Coach by Marty Cagan SVPG
• General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR)
• Opportunity Solution Trees: Visualize Your Discovery to Stay Aligned and Drive Outcomes by Teresa Torres
• Drowning in Product Content? Here’s How to Focus and Thrive by Petra Wille
• Continuous Discovery Habits by Teresa Torres
• Story-Based Customer Interviews Uncover Much-Needed Context by Teresa Torres
• Continuous Interviewing Course by Teresa Torres
• Communities of Practice: What They Are, What They Do, and What I’m Hoping to Learn by Petra Wille
• Coaching for Product Leaders/Executives by Petra Wille
• Why Agile Coaches Can’t Be Product Coaches by Petra Wille

Topics Covered:

• Internal product teams often fall into the trap of collecting requirements through meetings, leading to solutions that don’t fully address user needs.
• The key challenge: Blurring the lines between stakeholders and end-users.
• Story-based interviews are crucial for understanding real user behavior and uncovering hidden pain points.
• Petra emphasizes the importance of stakeholder mapping: Identifying users, informed stakeholders, and sponsors.
• Teresa explains why internal teams have a unique advantage—proximity and access to users—and how to leverage it for continuous discovery.
• Process optimization is sensitive territory. Who owns the process? Who’s responsible for improving it?
• Outcome thinking can help navigate stakeholder opinions, focusing on results rather than prescribed solutions.
• Internal teams must rethink how they approach product discovery and avoid assuming their situation is “different” or exempt from best practices.

Resources & Links:

• Follow Teresa Torres: https://ProductTalk.org
• Follow Petra Wille: https://Petra-Wille.com

Mentioned in the episode:

• Story-Based Customer Interviews Uncover Much-Needed Context
• Assumption Testing: Everything You Need to Know to Get Started
• Stakeholder mapping, as covered in Aligned: Stakeholder Management for Product Leaders by Bruce McCarthy
• Opportunity Solution Trees: Visualize Your Discovery to Stay Aligned and Drive Outcomes
• Continuous Discovery Habits Community
• Shifting from Outputs to Outcomes: Why It Matters and How to Get Started

Key Takeaways:

Frameworks are helpful, but they’re not the answer to everything.

• Frameworks provide structure and guidance, especially for beginners.
• The mistake is treating them as rigid recipes rather than flexible tools.
• The real value lies in sparking conversations, not just filling out the canvas.

Adapt frameworks to fit your team’s context.

• There’s no one-size-fits-all solution. Every team and organization is unique.
• Learn the framework first, then adapt it to your needs.
• Don’t be afraid to freestyle and connect the dots in a way that makes sense for your team.

Break free when a framework no longer serves you.

• Frameworks are scaffolding for learning—they’re meant to be outgrown.
• If a framework is slowing you down or feels like a checkbox exercise, it’s time to break free.
• The goal is to build the skills the framework teaches, not to follow it forever.

Frameworks are conversation starters.

• The value of a framework is in the conversations it initiates.
• It’s not about filling in every blank but about aligning your team and having the right discussions.
• If conversations aren’t happening, the framework isn’t serving its purpose.

Start with the framework, then make it your own.

• It’s okay to start with a structured approach, especially when learning.
• As you gain experience, feel free to adapt, remix, or create your own frameworks.
• Experimentation and iteration are key to making frameworks work for you.

Resources & Links:

• Follow Teresa Torres: https://ProductTalk.org
• Follow Petra Wille: https://Petra-Wille.com

Mentioned in the episode:

• Business model canvas
• Petra’s PM Wheel
• Scrum
• Jobs to Be Done
• Opportunity Solution Trees: Visualize Your Discovery to Stay Aligned and Drive Outcomes
• User Story Mapping: Discover the Whole Story, Build the Right Product by Jeff Patton
• Impact Mapping
• Continuous Discovery Habits

Topics Covered:

• What are AI-generated Opportunity Solution Trees?
• The rise of Synthetic Users and AI-driven research tools
• Why AI can’t (and shouldn’t) replace human customer discovery
• Real vs. synthetic data: How AI-generated insights can mislead your product decisions
• The risks of using AI personas for usability testing
• Best practices for balancing AI and human-led research

Resources & Links:

• Follow Teresa Torres: https://ProductTalk.org
• Follow Petra Wille: https://Petra-Wille.com

Mentioned in the episode:

• Synthetic Users
• Opportunity Solution Trees: Visualize Your Discovery to Stay Aligned and Drive Outcomes
• Don’t Use Generative AI to Replace Discovery with Real Humans
• ChatGPT
• Gemini
• Claude
• Continuous Discovery Habits

Key Takeaways:

• Deep work is essential but often deprioritized. Many product leaders know they should spend time on strategic thinking but struggle to justify it.
• Guilt is a major barrier. Many leaders feel bad about blocking off time for reflection, fearing it takes away from “real work.”
• Deep thinking improves team alignment. Setting aside time for structured thought helps leaders assess their team’s needs, challenges, and motivations.
• Strategy requires dedicated focus time. Updating or refining product strategy isn’t something you can do in 15-minute increments—it requires intentional, uninterrupted work.
• Protecting your calendar is a leadership skill. Building deep work habits means creating systems that make space for what matters most.

Resources & Links:

• Follow Teresa Torres: https://ProductTalk.org
• Follow Petra Wille: https://Petra-Wille.com

Mentioned in the episode:

• Maker’s Schedule, Manager’s Schedule by Paul Graham
• Petra's Illustration of Maker's vs. Manager's Schedule
• Deep Work by Cal Newport
• Slow Productivity by Cal Newport
• Beating the drum of your product strategy tune- Megan Murphy’s talk at Mind The Product
• I’m Glad We All Agree by Jeff Patton
• Reclaim.ai
• Continuous Discovery Habits