In this episode of TinySeed Tales, Rob Walling checks in with Colleen Schnettler, co-founder of Hello Query, as she discusses finding customer pain points.

Colleen, now solo, navigates the challenge of refining her product vision. After a period of introspection, Colleen shares her decision to pivot from targeting engineering managers to focusing on marketing data analysts. She discusses the insights gained from hiring a marketing coach and the excitement of landing her first paying customer, despite some critical feedback on her product's UI.

Topics we cover: 

• (1:50) – Early product excitement fizzles out
• (5:14) – When is it time to move on from an idea?
• (8:57) – Helping marketers build better reports
• (13:03) – Setting early pricing
• (14:02) – Determining how much to polish an MVP
• (17:36) – Predicting what’s ahead

Links from the Show: 

• SaaS Institute
• TinySeed
• Colleen Schnettler (@leenyburger) | X
• Colleen Schnettler (@leenyburger.bsky.social) | Bluesky
• Hello Query

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 760, join Rob Walling as he takes on some listener questions in another solo adventure. He offers insights on balancing custom-built solutions versus white-labeled components, and the impact white labeling has on company valuation and growth. He also discusses strategic hiring, founder mindsets, and tools for tracking your SaaS success.

Topics we cover: 

• (2:30) – Considerations when white-labeling within your SaaS
• (9:03) – Does relying on other SaaS affect our valuation?
• (10:10) – Tools for tracking SaaS metrics to enable scaling
• (17:03) – Do founder mindsets change at MRR milestones?
• (21:34) – Mistakes founders make in their mindset
• (25:27) – Forcing an onboarding step
• (27:29) – Determining team composition

Links from the Show: 

• The SaaS Launchpad
• The SaaS Playbook
• Episode 735 | The 8 Levels of SaaS Platform Risk (A Rob Solo Adventure)
• Invest in TinySeed
• Episode 685 | 7 Things You Should Never Do (A Rob Solo Adventure)
• Episode 722 | Bootstrapping a Vertical SaaS to 7-Figures in 18 Months

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In this episode of TinySeed Tales, Rob Walling speaks with Colleen Schnettler, co-founder of Hello Query, as she shares her latest startup journey pivot.

After reigniting her “shipping muscle” while briefly dabbling in an AI-based project, Colleen refocuses on her newest pivot of Hello Query. She shares the challenges of determining the market viability of an AI-assisted SQL report builder. She stands at a crossroads, torn between catering to internal BI teams or exploring marketing analytics.

Topics we cover: 

• (1:25) – Reflecting on the co-founder breakup
• (2:42) – Trying a scratch-your-own-itch project
• (6:27) – Unfair advantages inform another pivot
• (15:07) – Respecting the “emotional runway”  
• (19:23) – Marketing insights vs. an internal BI tool
• (23:01) – The curse of the audience

Links from the Show: 

• Applications for TinySeed are Open Through Feb 23rd
• Colleen Schnettler (@leenyburger) | X
• Colleen Schnettler (@leenyburger.bsky.social) | Bluesky
• Hello Query

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 758, Rob Walling is joined by Derrick Reimer to tackle a variety of listener questions. They discuss strategies for entering a market with established competitors, including how to position your product without directly attacking rivals. They also reflect on the challenges of free trials, weighing the pros and cons of extending trial periods versus incentivizing onboarding.

Episode Sponsor:

Most marketing agencies promise growth but never move the needle.

But Corey Haines and the team at Conversion Factory? They know how to deliver results. 

Derrick Reimer said that "Under Corey's marketing leadership, SavvyCal broke into the market with a successful launch and steadily grew to several thousand customers."

And Eunice Koo of Less Annoying CRM said that their “first A/B test with Conversion Factory, delivered a 20% increase in visitor to trial conversions within the first two months.”

Imagine having a senior copywriter, designer, and web developer at your disposal to turn every marketing idea into a reality.

Head to conversionfactory.co and mention this podcast when you book a call for $1,000 off your first month. 

Topics we cover: 

• (1:18) – How to launch a SaaS product in a market with an established competitor
• (6:21) – Do I call out competitors by name?
• (14:24) – How do you really identify what moves the needle in your Saas?
• (19:59) – Breaking down the “one thing”
• (23:32) – Selling and marketing SaaS before building
• (30:36) – What is the goal of your free trial?
• (39:10) – On the fence between B2B, B2C

Links from the Show: 

• TInySeed Applications are open until Feb 23rd
• Derrick Reimer (@derrickreimer) | X
• Derrick Reimer (@derrickreimer.com) | Bluesky
• SavvyCal
• 757 | TinySeed Tales s4e5: Founder Breakups, Crushing Failures, and the Future
• TinySeed
• MicroConf Connect
• SaaS Institute
• Start Marketing The Day You Start Coding by Rob Walling
• Start Small Stay Small by Rob Walling

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In this episode of TinySeed Tales, Rob Walling chats with Colleen Schnettler, co-founder of Hello Query, as she navigates the complexities of her startup journey. 

After a challenging period with her co-founder Aaron, Colleen reflects on their decision to part ways and the emotional toll it has taken on her. She shares her feelings of crushing failure, the uncertainty of moving forward alone, and the realization that their initial product vision may not align with market needs. 

Topics we cover: 

• (0:49) – Colleen and Aaron make a tough decision
• (4:09) – Voice memo, “Crushing Failure”
• (7:59) – What if you hadn’t raised money?
• (11:44)  – Colleen weighs her remaining options

Links from the Show: 

• Applications for TinySeed are Open Through Feb 23rd
• Colleen Schnettler (@leenyburger) | X
• Colleen Schnettler (@leenyburger.bsky.social) | Bluesky
• Hello Query

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 756, Rob Walling interviews Brendan Fortune, Director of Product Management at Customer.io, to explore the skills and frameworks for effective product management. Brendan shares his journey and discusses the importance of understanding customer behavior to drive product decisions. They delve into the concept of the flywheel and how it can be leveraged to enhance user success and optimize pricing strategies.

Topics we cover: 

• (2:46) – What does a product manager do?
• (10:36) – When should a SaaS company designate a full time product manager?
• (15:33) – Pricing and and creating a flywheel
• (22:41) – Deciding on your “fair” value metric
• (30:01) – Pricing experimentation in the early days

Links from the Show: 

• Applications for TinySeed Spring 2025 are Open!
• Invest in TinySeed
• Ask a product question on Startups For the Rest of Us
• Brendan Fortune | LinkedIn
• Customer.io
• Product Flywheel + Pricing + Org Strategy (Miro)
• Your Pricing is WRONG (even Sam Altman Made This Mistake)

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In this episode of TinySeed Tales, Rob Walling checks in with Colleen Schnettler, co-founder of Hello Query, as she shares the latest developments in her startup journey. 

Colleen shares the insights gained from recent customer interviews that led to a significant pivot in their product strategy. Hello Query is now focused on embedding custom reporting features within other SaaS applications and Colleen reflects on balancing product quality with minimal v1 features. Her excitement is building to get their solution into users' hands.

Topics we cover: 

• (1:32) – Digging into customer interviews
• (3:54) – Filtering out the noise to achieve confidence
• (5:31) – Other competitors in the space
• (8:53) – How Colleen prepares for and sources customer conversations
• (12:11) – Is the technical implementation coming along?

Links from the Show: 

• Invest in TinySeed
• Episode 748 | The Ins and Outs of Startup Investing
• Colleen Schnettler (@leenyburger) | X
• Colleen Schnettler (@leenyburger.bsky.social) | Bluesky
• Hello Query

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 754, join Rob Walling for a solo adventure as he tackles listener questions on a variety of topics. He discusses strategies for converting free users to paid customers, the implications of AI advancements on the SaaS landscape, and how to navigate platform risks when larger players enter your market. Rob also shares insights on breaking through growth plateaus.

Topics we cover: 

• (3:12) – When in doubt, don’t try freemium
• (6:44) – Different levers you can pull to make freemium work
• (8:53) – How will SaaS be affected by the exponential growth of AI?
• (14:09) – Big players launching features is a form of platform risk
• (17:24) – Should I spin out a portion of my product into a new product?
• (20:05) – Thinking through plateaus in your business growth

Links from the Show: 

• MicroConf Connect Applications are open through Feb 5th
• Ask a Question on Startups For the Rest of Us
• TinySeed
• Episode 663 | 5 Insights SaaS Founders Should Know About A.I. (Ignore at Your Peril)
• Episode 735 | The 8 Levels of SaaS Platform Risk (A Rob Solo Adventure)
• MicroConf YouTube Channel

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In this episode of TinySeed Tales, Rob Walling reconnects with Colleen Schnettler, co-founder of Hammerstone, as she shares the latest developments in their startup journey.

Colleen opens up about the emotional challenges of co-founder conflicts with Aaron, highlighting the importance of communication and alignment in their partnership. They also discuss the significant pivot from their initial product offering to the newly rebranded Hello Query, a SaaS solution focused on internal reporting for teams.

Topics we cover: 

• (0:59) – Breaking up with a co-founder
• (7:39) – How could this conversation have been different?
• (9:49) – Navigating a major pivot
• (14:37) – Changing the name
• (16:56) – Getting closer to finding product-market-fit
• (19:39) – Competing in a competitive market

Links from the Show: 

• SaaS Institute
• TinySeed
• Colleen Schnettler (@leenyburger) | X
• Colleen Schnettler (@leenyburger.bsky.social) | Bluesky
• Aaron Francis (@aarondfrancis) | X
• Aaron Francis (@aaronfrancis.com) | Bluesky
• MicroConf Recap, Episode 59 – The Hammerstone Podcast
• Hello Query

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 752, Rob Walling interviews Lars Lofgren to discuss the current state of SEO. Lars shares insights on how SEO has drastically changed, especially with the rise of AI and the volatility brought on by Google’s evolving algorithm. They cover the challenges of ranking for terms, the impact of AI content, and the rise of "parasite SEO." 

Topics we cover: 

• (2:16) – SEO traffic that generates $7.2M annual revenue
• (4:54) – Changes in Google’s algorithm
• (9:46) – How to approach SEO as a bootstrapper
• (15:45) – SEO has changed considerably
• (19:48) – AI and SEO
• (25:54) – The advent of AI Overviews
• (31:19) – Parasite SEO and the importance of brands

Links from the Show: 

• Get Your Tickets for MicroConf US by Jan 31st
• Larslofgren.com
• Lars Lofgren (@LarsLofgren) | X
• Lars Lofgren at MicroConf
• TinySeed.com
• MicroConf YouTube Channel

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In this episode of TinySeed Tales, Rob Walling catches up with Colleen Schnettler, co-founder of Hammerstone, about the progress her team has made since their initial check-in. 

Colleen describes the tough decision to focus on one product stack, and their recent pivot toward building a reporting MVP. They also discuss Colleen’s shift into a more managerial role.

Topics we cover: 

• (2:10) – Motivations behind building additional functionality
• (7:07) – Repositioning the reporting dashboard
• (10:08) – Focusing in on the successful part of the product
• (14:30) – How shifting focus affects the team dynamic
• (16:19) – ”Hiring is horrible”
• (22:20) – What has management been like?
• (26:11) – Growing as a manager

Links from the Show: 

• Invest with TinySeed
• Colleen Schnettler (@leenyburger) | X
• Colleen Schnettler (@leenyburger.bsky.social) | Bluesky
• Refine by Hammerstone
• Hello Query
• Buy Back Your Time by Dan Martell 
• Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss, Tahl Raz

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 750, Rob Walling is joined by Laura Roeder, founder of Paperbell, to answer intermediate listener questions. They discuss making your first hire with limited funds, testing pricing models with existing customer bases, and more. Laura also provides some great advice on content marketing, drawing from her past experience at MeetEdgar.

Topics we cover: 

• (3:14) – Building a team before you can afford your first, full time hire
• (11:11) – Testing pricing with existing customer bases
• (19:00) – What type of content should you focus on?
• (25:20) – Growing a pipeline of leads with limited resources
• (31:00) – Who are your 100 best customers?

Links from the Show: 

• SaaS Institute
• TinySeed
• TinySeed Tales is Back: S4E1
• Lauraroeder.com
• Laura Roeder (@lauraroeder.bsky.social) | Bluesky
• Paperbell
• Episode 473 | Managing Annual Subscriptions, Low-price vs. High, Being a Non-Developer Founder, and More Listener Questions with Laura Roeder
• Exactly How I Cold Emailed My Way to A Life-Changing Exit (And You Can Too) by Laura Roeder
• The SaaS Playbook
• Buy Back Your Time by Dan Martell
• If I Started SaaS in 2024, Here’s My B2B Content Strategy for $1M ARR
• The Ultimate Sales Machine by Chet Holmes

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

Welcome to Season 4 of TinySeed Tales, where we follow the founders of one SaaS startup throughout a few years as they share their struggles, victories, and failures.

In the first episode of Season 4, Rob introduces us to Colleen Schnettler, the cofounder of Hammerstone. Colleen is a self-taught Rails developer, and this season will follow how Hammerstone eventually becomes Hello Query – an AI-powered chatbot that runs custom reporting on your data. Colleen is one of 27 startup founders from TinySeed’s Fall 2022 accelerator batch.

Topics we cover: 

• (2:16) – TinySeed Tales Season 4 with Colleen Schnettler
• (3:57) – Custom reporting in Laravel and Rails
• (7:05) – Becoming an “atypical founder”
• (14:11) – Entrepreneurship as a military spouse
• (16:17) – Motivations for joining TinySeed
• (19:15) – A recent low point, and high point in the business
• (25:00) – Big plans and risky moves ahead

Links from the Show: 

• TinySeed Applications open on February 10th
• Colleen Schnettler (@leenyburger) | X
• Colleen Schnettler (@leenyburger.bsky.social) | Bluesky
• Refine by Hammerstone
• Hello Query
• Software Social Podcast
• TinySeed Tales | Season 1 | Castos
• TinySeed Tales | Season 2 | Gather
• TinySeed Tales | Season 3 | Cloudforecast

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 748, Rob Walling sits down with Einar Vollset, co-founder of TinySeed, to discuss the ins and outs of startup investing. They explore the differences between VC and angel investing, the importance of deal flow, and the challenges of valuation. Rob and Einar also highlight how TinySeed’s approach differs from traditional VC, including their focus on capital efficiency and why it’s been working for ambitious B2B SaaS companies.

Topics we cover: 

• (2:37) – The stigma of bootstrapper funding is waning
• (6:44) – What success looks like in venture funding
• (10:45) – Breaking down the math and deal flow
• (17:54) – How valuations work
• (26:21) – Keeping optionality
• (29:58) – Evaluating markups
• (35:18) – Raising TinySeed’s next fund

Links from the Show: 

• MicroConf Connect Applications open until January 15th
• TinySeed
• Invest with TinySeed
• Einar Vollset (@einarvollset) | X
• Episode 744 | Bluesky, TinySeed is Raising, YC Backs Competitors, and More Hot Take Tuesday Topics
• Discretion Capital
• How To Invest In Startups by Sam Altman

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 747, Rob Walling interviews Jane Portman, co-founder of Userlist, to discuss the evolution of their SaaS customer success strategy. Jane shares the four stages of Userlist’s customer success journey, from the early days of trial and error to implementing done-for-you services. They also discuss the challenges of customer onboarding for complex products.

Topics we cover: 

• (2:20) – How customer success works at Userlist
• (5:27) – Dealing with upfront onboarding friction 
• (9:51) – Stage 1, “young and naive”
• (12:16) – Stage 2, “hire someone”
• (19:06) – Stage 3, “done for you services”
• (25:47) – Leveraging the Userlist blog
• (29:26) – Stage 4, “developing your own frameworks”

Links from the Show: 

• SaaS Institute
• TinySeed
• Jane Portman (@uibreakfast) | X
• Jane Portman (@uibreakfast.com) | Bluesky
• Userlist
• Episode 471 | Fighting to Gain Traction in a Crowded Space with Jane Portman of Userlist
• Episode 742 | Normalizing Hard Things, Facing Your Biggest Threat, and Making it Fast (A Rob Solo Adventure)
• Crossing the Chasm by Geoffrey A. Moore
• Userlist Closes a Pre-Seed Round with 21 Angel Investors
• SaaS Email Marketing Strategy: Everything You Need to Know
• 20+ “Invite Your Team” Email Examples
• Atomic Emails: Our Proven Method for Writing Email Campaigns

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 746, Rob Walling looks ahead to 2025 with nine startup predictions, exploring trends in no-code tools, search, autonomous vehicles, AI, and an increase in platform risk for bootstrapped founders.

Topics we cover: 

• (1:52) – Carrying forward predictions from 2024
• (3:09) – Search volume for Google organic SEO 
• (6:34) – Ads in AI interfaces
• (7:50) – Google’s revenue drops, bootstrapper opportunities
• (10:07) – “AI” use in  H1’s 
• (14:01) – Self-driving taxis
• (19:28) – Platform risk intensifies

Links from the Show: 

• Exit Strategy: The Entrepreneur's Guide to Selling Your Business Without Regret
• Episode 697 | 7 Predictions for SaaS Bootstrappers in 2024
• Episode 725 | SEO in the Age of AI, Freemium, When Brand Becomes Important, and More Advanced Listener Questions (with Ruben Gamez)
• LINKLO
• TinySeed
• Episode 735 | The 8 Levels of SaaS Platform Risk (A Rob Solo Adventure)

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 745, Rob Walling goes solo to reflect on 2024. He revisits key concepts and frameworks introduced on the podcast, including the 2-20-200 Validation Framework, Orthogonal SaaS, and the eight levels of platform risk. Rob also looks back at his top five favorite episodes and reviews his predictions for the year—some of which came to pass, and others that didn’t.

Topics we cover: 

• (2:05) – Looking back at concepts and frameworks from past 12 months
• (8:50) – Rob’s 5 favorite episodes
• (11:56) – Reflecting on 2024 accomplishments
• (19:47) – TinySeed Tales Returns in 2025
• (21:18) – Evaluating 2024 predictions

Links from the Show: 

• The SaaS Launchpad – Start Free with “The DNA of a Great SaaS Idea”
• MicroConf YouTube Channel
• Episode 706 | 2/20/200 Validation, Prior Art, and Designing by Committee (A Rob Solo Adventure)
• TinySeed
• Vertical SaaS vs Horizontal SaaS - Which is More Profitable?
• Episode 735 | The 8 Levels of SaaS Platform Risk (A Rob Solo Adventure)
• The SaaS Playbook
• Episode 728 | Bootstrapping Gymdesk to a More Than $32.5M Exit
• Episode 706.5 | Rethinking My Most Common Advice
• Episode 729 | 9 Things I’ve Learned Investing in 170+ SaaS Companies
• Episode 709 | The 7 Greatest Investments of My Life
• Episode 694 | 2023 In Review: Amazing Growth & Fighting Burnout
• How Ben Chestnut Bootstrapped Mailchimp to a $12 Billion Exit
• MicroConf New Orleans 2025
• Start Small, Stay Small by Rob Walling
• Exit Strategy: The Entrepreneur's Guide to Selling Your Business Without Regret
• TinySeed Tales

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 744, Rob Walling is joined by Tracy Osborn and Einar Vollset to give their hot takes on some recent news. They cover the recent rise of Bluesky, kicking off a 4-figure bet between Tracy and Einar. Then they discuss TinySeed’s third fund, YC Combinator backing competitors, dealing with imposter syndrome, and finally government involvement in banning social media.

Topics we cover: 

• (1:49) – Will Bluesky survive and thrive?
• (9:07) – The bet on Bluesky growth
• (13:46) – TinySeed is raising a third fund
• (17:25) – Y Combinator backs duplicates
• (22:18) – Dealing with Imposter Syndrome
• (27:46) – Australia's social media ban

Links from the Show: 

• The SaaS Launchpad – Start Free with “The DNA of a Great SaaS Idea”
• Invest in TinySeed
• Rob Walling (@robwalling.com) | Bluesky
• TinySeed (@tinyseed.com) | Bluesky
• Tracy Osborn (tracymakes) (@tracyosborn.com) | Bluesky
• Einar Vollset (@einarvollset) | X
• Y Combinator often backs startups that duplicate other YC companies, data shows
• Procrastination and the Fear of Not Being 'Good Enough' by Swapnil Chauhan
• Startup Founders, Do THIS to Beat Imposter Syndrome
• Australia proposes 'world-leading' ban on social media for children under 16

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 743, Rob Walling and Dr. Sherry Walling read the first chapter of their new book, Exit Strategy: The Entrepreneur’s Guide to Selling Your Company Without Regret. They discuss the emotional and psychological challenges of selling a business, and why it’s often harder than founders expect. They offer insights on how to prepare for a sale, protect your mental health, and how to best navigate this major life change that few others understand.

Back the book on Kickstarter

Episode Sponsor:

Hiring senior developers can really move the needle in your business, but if you bring on the wrong person, you can quickly burn through your runway. If you need help finding a vetted, senior, results-oriented developer, you should reach out to today’s sponsor, Lemon.io. 

For years, they’ve been helping our audience find high quality, global talent at competitive rates, and they can help you too.

Longtime listener Chaz Yoon, hired a senior developer from Lemon.io and said his hire ”definitely knew his stuff, provided appropriate feedback and pushback, and had great communication, including very fluent English. He really exceeded my expectations.” 

Chaz said he’d definitely use Lemon.io again when he’s looking for a senior level engineer. 

To learn more and get a 15% discount on your first four weeks of working with a developer at lemon.io/startups. 

Topics we cover: 

• (1:49) – Exit Strategy Introduction
• (6:56) – Exits are complicated
• (11:16) – One of the hardest things you’ll ever do
• (15:57) – Your business is your baby 
• (18:35) – Entering the unknown
• (26:49) – Six factors that shape how you feel about an exit
• (31:03) – Making it real

Links from the Show: 

• Exit Strategy: The Entrepreneur's Guide to Selling Your Business Without Regret
• Back the book on Kickstarter
• MicroConf Connect Applications Close Today, December 10th
• Rob Walling (@robwalling) | X
• Dr. Sherry Walling (@sherrywalling) | X
• The SaaS Playbook
• Built to Sell by John Warrillow
• Touching Two Worlds by Dr. Sherry Walling
• The Entrepreneur’s Guide to Keeping Your Sh*t Together by Sherry Walling, PhD, Rob Walling

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 742, Rob Walling goes solo to explore normalizing doing hard things and facing your biggest threats. He also discusses a framework for founders looking to scale without cutting corners – making things work, making them right, and then making them fast.

Exit Strategy Kickstarter ends on December 12!

Topics we cover: 

• (2:39) – Normalizing doing hard things
• (6:54) – The “hard things” in your startup
• (10:27) – Walking into the storm
• (16:21) – ”Make it work, make it right, make it fast”
• (22:04) – Building your “Founder Gut”
• (25:42) – Think in years, not months

Links from the Show: 

• Exit Strategy: The Entrepreneur's Guide to Selling Your Business Without Regret
• MicroConf Masterminds Applications Close on December 4th
• Rob Walling (@robwalling) | X
• Dr. Sherry Walling (@sherrywalling) | X
• The Comic Lab Podcast
• The SaaS Playbook
• The Stair Step Method of Bootstrapping
• This Took 11 Years to Be An "Overnight Success" - SaaS Exit Strategy

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 741, Rob Walling talks to Wes Bush, CEO and Founder of ProductLed, about the nuances and misconceptions of product-led growth. Wes debunks common myths and explains how companies can leverage their product to drive user acquisition, engagement, and growth. They dive into a real-world example and explore how founders can avoid the trap of thinking the product will “sell itself” while contrasting PLG and sales-led strategies.

Episode Sponsor:

Hiring senior developers can really move the needle in your business, but if you bring on the wrong person, you can quickly burn through your runway. If you need help finding a vetted, senior, results-oriented developer, you should reach out to today’s sponsor, Lemon.io. 

For years, they’ve been helping our audience find high quality, global talent at competitive rates, and they can help you too.

Longtime listener Chaz Yoon, hired a senior developer from Lemon.io and said his hire ”definitely knew his stuff, provided appropriate feedback and pushback, and had great communication, including very fluent English. He really exceeded my expectations.” 

Chaz said he’d definitely use Lemon.io again when he’s looking for a senior level engineer. 

To learn more and get a 15% discount on your first four weeks of working with a developer at lemon.io/startups. 

Topics we cover: 

• (2:01) – Defining product-led growth
• (6:07) – Are users able to get value for free? 
• (11:38) – Hybrid: both product-led and sales-led
• (14:52) – Determining the main outcome of your free model
• (19:23) – Misuse of the PLG terminology
• (22:00) – The benefits of PLG over sales-led growth
• (24:08) – Workshopping SavvyCal’s product-led strategy

Links from the Show: 

• Mastermind Applications are open until December 4th
• Wes Bush (@wes_bush) | X
• ProductLed (@productled) | X
• ProductLed
• Product-Led Growth: How to Build a Product That Sells Itself by Wes Bush
• The Product-Led Playbook: How to Unlock Self-Serve Revenue and Dominate Your Market (With a Tiny Team) by Wes Bush
• Free Audiobook of The Product-Led Playbook
• Product-Led Onboarding by Ramli John
• TinySeed
• SparkToro
• SavvyCal

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 740, Rob Walling speaks with Dr. Sherry Walling about their new book, "Exit Strategy: The Entrepreneur's Guide to Selling Your Business Without Regret." They explore the emotional, psychological, and practical aspects of selling a business, emphasizing the universal challenges entrepreneurs face. The book draws on both Rob and Sherry’s unique experiences that they’ve shared with countless founders throughout their careers.

Exit Strategy is now live on Kickstarter!

Topics we cover: 

• 2:01 – Not just a book for those selling SaaS
• 8:13 – The Kickstarter for the book is live today
• 12:16 – Before, during, and after the exit
• 14:55 – Why exiting is so hard
• 20:39 – Life after the exit
• 25:10 – A few traps await founders shortly after exit
• 26:24 – What do you do with a big pile of money?

Links from the Show: 

• MicroConf Remote Goes Live November 20th!
• Exit Strategy: The Entrepreneur's Guide to Selling Your Business Without Regret
• Rob Walling (@robwalling) | X
• Dr. Sherry Walling (@sherrywalling) | X
• Zen Founder
• Zen Founder Podcast
• The SaaS Playbook
• The Art of Selling Your Business by John Warrillow
• Before the Exit by Dan Andrews 
• Finish Big by Bo Burlingham
• MicroConf
• TinySeed
• Touching Two Worlds by Dr. Sherry Walling

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 739, Rob Walling interviews Andy Kim, co-founder of Trotto, about his unique journey into SaaS. Andy shares how “go links” work, and why they are so valuable for internal, enterprise use despite their relative obscurity. They also explore the marketing hurdles and customer adoption challenges in a business like Trotto.

Episode Sponsor:

Hiring senior developers can really move the needle in your business, but if you bring on the wrong person, you can quickly burn through your runway. If you need help finding a vetted, senior, results-oriented developer, you should reach out to today’s sponsor, Lemon.io. 

For years, they’ve been helping our audience find high quality, global talent at competitive rates, and they can help you too.

Longtime listener Chaz Yoon, hired a senior developer from Lemon.io and said his hire ”definitely knew his stuff, provided appropriate feedback and pushback, and had great communication, including very fluent English. He really exceeded my expectations.” 

Chaz said he’d definitely use Lemon.io again when he’s looking for a senior level engineer. 

To learn more and get a 15% discount on your first four weeks of working with a developer at lemon.io/startups. 

Topics we cover: 

• 3:13 – Go links, URL shorteners for enterprise
• 6:14 – History of the problem and core users
• 9:44 – Customer education and growth opportunities
• 15:37 – Finding the repeatable marketing funnel
• 21:07 – Buying into a co-founder role at Trotto
• 24:42 – What’s the hardest part of running Trotto?

Links from the Show: 

• Exit Strategy: The Entrepreneur's Guide to Selling Your Business Without Regret
• MicroConf Masterminds - Applications close on December 4th, 2024
• Trot.to
• Trotto go links (@TrottoHQ) | X
• TinySeed
• How did go links start and evolve at Google?
• Quiet Light

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 738, join Rob Walling for a solo adventure as he answers listener questions. He explores how to target larger, enterprise deals after achieving product-market fit, and why word of mouth marketing can be great, yet is tricky to control. Rob also answers a later-stage question and cautions against trying to educate the market as a bootstrapper.

Topics we cover: 

• 1:58 – Expanding to enterprise deals after product-market fit
• 6:39 – Word of mouth marketing is tricky for B2B SaaS
• 14:36 – Educating the market as a bootstrapper
• 20:07 – Selling integrations through incubators and accelerators
• 24:38 – Developing a profit sharing model

Links from the Show: 

• Register for MicroConf Remote before Nov. 7th for Early Bird pricing & extras
• Ask a Question at Startups For the Rest of Us
• The SaaS Playbook
• TinySeed
• Adjacency Matrix: How to expand after PMF by Jason Cohen
• F5Bot
• Syften
• Podscan
• Veed
• Devising a profit sharing program for micro-multinationals by Peldi Guilizzoni

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 737, Rob Walling is joined by Derrick Reimer to recap the experience from MicroConf Europe 2024 in Dubrovnik. They discuss the differences between MicroConf US and MicroConf Europe, some small programming tweaks over the years, and they revisit the highlights from the talks at this event. 

If you missed the event and had some MicroConf FOMO, get your tickets now for our New Orleans event!

Episode Sponsor:

Hiring senior developers can really move the needle in your business, but if you bring on the wrong person, you can quickly burn through your runway. If you need help finding a vetted, senior, results-oriented developer, you should reach out to today’s sponsor, Lemon.io. 

For years, they’ve been helping our audience find high quality, global talent at competitive rates, and they can help you too.

Longtime listener Chaz Yoon, hired a senior developer from Lemon.io and said his hire ”definitely knew his stuff, provided appropriate feedback and pushback, and had great communication, including very fluent English. He really exceeded my expectations.” 

Chaz said he’d definitely use Lemon.io again when he’s looking for a senior level engineer. 

To learn more and get a 15% discount on your first four weeks of working with a developer at lemon.io/startups. 

Topics we cover: 

• 2:47 – MicroConf Europe vs. MicroConf US
• 6:44 – Adding “excursions” to the programming
• 11:29 – From Maker to Founder to Owner to Entrepreneur with Peldi Guilizzoni   
• 18:55 – Thinking big and small: Data-driven growth strategies to grow your business with Andrew Davies
• 20:45 – Contributing factors to the success of this event in particular
• 23:47 – 10 Lessons Learned in 10 Years of Starting, Growing, and Selling WebinarNinja with Omar Zenhom 
• 26:40 – Bootstrapping Our Freemium Form Builder: From Zero to $1.5M ARR with Marie Martens
• 30:37 – 3 mistakes I won’t repeat after growing my business to +35M and selling it with Tim Vandecasteele
• 33:50 – Breaking Through the 7 SaaS Growth Plateaus with Rob Walling

Links from the Show: 

• Get Tickets for MicroConf US 2025, New Orleans
• Signup for the MicroConf newsletter
• Derrick Reimer (@derrickreimer) | X
• SavvyCal
• Peldi from Balsamiq (@peldi) | X
• The SaaS Playbook
• Omar Zenhom (@TheOmarZenhom) | X
• Episode 717 | Bootstrapping to $1.3M ARR and 300,000 Free Users

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 736, join Rob Walling as he answers some later-stage listener questions in another solo adventure. He discusses common pitfalls in delegation, transitioning from one-time transactions to SaaS models, and when it makes sense to target multiple ICPs. Rob also warns about the limited impact that social media marketing can have on growing your SaaS tool.

Episode Sponsor:

Are you drowning in challenging tech decisions? You should check out today’s sponsor, Techstack. 

Unlike typical staffing agencies, these folks are startup specialists with over a decade of experience in startup software development.

Techstack can help your startup build an MVP that's designed for explosive growth, rapidly expand your team for new features, or optimize your existing codebase for peak performance. Whether you're launching, scaling up, or fine-tuning, they've got the expertise to supercharge your tech.

One of Techstack’s clients was recently featured on Inc. Magazine's Fast Growth Companies list, and they attributed part of their 375% growth to their partnership.

Here's an exclusive offer for "Startups For the Rest of Us" listeners: Get a 10% discount on your first month of development with Techstack. And if you're one of the first 10 listeners to get in touch, you'll also receive a free, in-depth tech assessment and expert consultation – a $3,000 value – in your choice of critical areas like architecture, infrastructure, development process or project management. This could be the game-changer your startup needs.

Don't let tech challenges slow you down. Check out https://www.tech-stack.com/startups  to discover how Techstack can turbocharge your growth.

Topics we cover: 

• 2:17 – What to delegate on the path to $10k MRR
• 6:43 – Be wary of social media marketing masquerading as productivity
• 10:31 – DIY vs. hiring a growth agency for B2B SaaS marketing
• 15:22 – Not every business should be a subscription business
• 22:00 – Defining, targeting, and selling to different ICPs

Links from the Show: 

• Get Tickets for MicroConf US 2025, New Orleans
• The SaaS Launchpad
• TinySeed
• The Stair Step Method of Bootstrapping
• Founding Sales by Peter Kazanjy
• Rob Walling (@robwalling) | X

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 735, join Rob Walling for a solo adventure where he categorizes the different levels of SaaS platform risk. He introduces a framework with three key factors: Replacement, Customer Concentration, and Lead Flow. Rob then defines eight levels of risk according to these factors and other vulnerabilities such as relying on open source – a hot topic with recent news about WordPress, WP Engine, and Automattic. 

Episode Sponsor:

Hiring senior developers can really move the needle in your business, but if you bring on the wrong person, you can quickly burn through your runway. If you need help finding a vetted, senior, results-oriented developer, you should reach out to today’s sponsor, Lemon.io. 

For years, they’ve been helping our audience find high quality, global talent at competitive rates, and they can help you too.

Longtime listener Chaz Yoon, hired a senior developer from Lemon.io and said his hire ”definitely knew his stuff, provided appropriate feedback and pushback, and had great communication, including very fluent English. He really exceeded my expectations.” 

Chaz said he’d definitely use Lemon.io again when he’s looking for a senior level engineer. 

To learn more and get a 15% discount on your first four weeks of working with a developer at lemon.io/startups. 

Topics we cover: 

• 2:32 – Are replacements available for this platform?
• 4:56 – How concentrated are your customers on this platform?
• 5:31 – What is your lead or customer flow?
• 8:54 – Level 1: almost no platform risk
• 10:04 – Level 2: reliant on a commoditized platform
• 11:49 – Level 3: using large cloud providers like AWS
• 15:33 – Level 4: deeply tied to open source software like WordPress
• 18:11 – Level 5: high switching costs, but replacements exist like in no-code
• 20:00 – Level 6: 100% lead flow risk
• 21:44 – Level 7: a friendly app ecosystem
• 23:24 – Level 8: aggressive platforms, few replacements, customer concentration

Links from the Show: 

• Get Tickets for MicroConf US 2025, New Orleans
• TinySeed
• Rob Walling (@robwalling) | X
• Ask a Question on SFTROU
• How to find and validate business ideas from 75+ SaaS Marketplaces

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 734, Rob Walling interviews Ian Landsman, founder of HelpSpot, about his 20-year bootstrapper journey. They discuss Ian's transition from on-prem software to SaaS, the challenges and benefits of each, and the early days of building the business. They wrap up by discussing the potential impact of AI on the customer service industry. 

Topics we cover: 

• 1:11 – Ian, the OG bootstrapper
• 2:22 – Benefits of on-prem software in 2024
• 5:46 – Slow, steady, profitable growth through the years
• 9:20 – Embracing a risky start
• 14:11 – Getting early awareness
• 18:52 – Transitioning to SaaS
• 26:37 – Laravel raises $57M
• 28:59 – AI impact on customer service

Links from the Show: 

• The SaaS Playbook
• TinySeed
• Ian Landsman (@ianlandsman) | X
• HelpSpot (@helpspot) | X
• HelpSpot
• Podscan
• Accel invests $57M into Laravel Products & Open-Source Framework
• Mostly Technical

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 733, join Rob Walling for a solo adventure where he covers several topics. In this episode he differentiates between good and bad distractions, weaknesses versus blind spots, and shares personal experiences of struggle. He concludes with actionable advice – uncover the blind spots, then launch, iterate, and take feedback.

Topics we cover: 

• 2:09 – Not all distractions are bad
• 5:42 – The worst distractions masquerade as productivity
• 9:48 – Weaknesses versus blind spots
• 16:41 – Everybody struggles 
• 24:40 – Launch, iterate, and take feedback

Links from the Show: 

• The SaaS Launchpad
• The SaaS Playbook
• MicroConf Connect
• The Hard Thing About Hard Things by Ben Horowitz
• Why Startup Founders Should Stop Reading Business Books by Rob Walling
• Traction by Gabriel Weinberg, Justin Mares
• Episode 725 | SEO in the Age of AI, Freemium, When Brand Becomes Important, and More Advanced Listener Questions (with Ruben Gamez)
• Launch. A Startup Documentary.

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 732, Rob Walling interviews Jeff, a mostly anonymous and retired founder, about his mostly bootstrapped business and subsequent exits. Jeff shares how he started the company in 2003 and how he persevered in the early, lonely years to achieve traction in the business. They also discuss finding fulfillment after a huge, life-changing exit.

Topics we cover: 

• 2:17 – Jeff, the retired SaaS founder you haven’t heard of
• 3:32 – Refreshing the bank balance after multiple exits
• 5:26 – ARR multiples across several exits
• 8:11 – “Accidentally” SaaS, growing the business in the early days
• 11:35 – Getting through the toughest moments in the journey
• 16:31 – Why did the business work?
• 20:14 – “Short term generous, long term greedy”
• 24:32 – Staying busy after an exit
• 32:09 – Giving back to founders

Links from the Show: 

• Purchase The SaaS Launchpad before September 30th to get access to a live Q&A with Rob
• TinySeed
• Retired Founder (@RetiredFounder) | X
• Contact Retired Founder
• Beyond The Finish Line

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 731, join Rob Walling and Derrick Reimer as they tackle some more advanced listener questions. They discuss delegation and giving up areas of control as a founder, including examples from their time together at Drip. Derrick describes how he approaches partnering with other SaaS businesses and why planning a full quarter ahead doesn’t work for many bootstrapped founders.

Episode Sponsor:

Hiring senior developers can really move the needle in your business, but if you bring on the wrong person, you can quickly burn through your runway. If you need help finding a vetted, senior, results-oriented developer, you should reach out to today’s sponsor, Lemon.io. 

For years, they’ve been helping our audience find high quality, global talent at competitive rates, and they can help you too.

Longtime listener Chaz Yoon, hired a senior developer from Lemon.io and said his hire ”definitely knew his stuff, provided appropriate feedback and pushback, and had great communication, including very fluent English. He really exceeded my expectations.” 

Chaz said he’d definitely use Lemon.io again when he’s looking for a senior level engineer. 

To learn more and get a 15% discount on your first four weeks of working with a developer at lemon.io/startups. 

Topics we cover: 

• 1:17 – Delegating as a perfectionist
• 7:19 – Learning to hire those that are better than you in some domains
• 14:50 – Risk vs. certainty
• 19:01 – Finding specialized marketing roles vs. a generalist
• 24:04 – Managing partnerships with other SaaS products
• 31:17 – Reaching out about partnerships
• 32:46 – Quarterly planning for your SaaS
• 34:20 – Planning in smaller time blocks
• 40:58 – Quizzing developers’ on their knowledge

Links from the Show: 

• Purchase The SaaS Launchpad
• TinySeed
• The SaaS Playbook
• MicroConf YouTube Channel
• Derrick Reimer (@derrickreimer) | X
• SavvyCal
• Finding Fulfillment by Jason Cohen
• Shape Up

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 730, Craig Hewitt turns the table and interviews Rob Walling about releasing The SaaS Launchpad course. Craig, founder of Castos, asks Rob about the course's purpose and structure, which founders that it’s designed for, and why he made a course as opposed to a new book, or a YouTube series. They also discuss the pricing strategy, hosting platforms, accountability, community, and more.

If you’re trying to take your SaaS from zero to one, purchase The SaaS Launchpad before September 30th to get access to a live Q&A with Rob.

Topics we cover: 

• 2:00 – Why a course?
• 4:35 – Who is it for?
• 9:37 – Breaking down the pricing behind the course
• 14:32 – Choosing a platform to host the course
• 17:47 – Enabling action from those who enroll
• 27:33 – Course topics that help founders get early traction
• 30:26 – The biggest problems early-stage founders face

Links from the Show: 

• The SaaS Launchpad
• Craig Hewitt (@TheCraigHewitt) | X
• Castos
• The Rouge Startups podcast
• Craig’s YouTube Channel
• Episode 606 | The Podcasting Landscape, Keeping Your Saw Sharpened, and Scaling Your Team with Craig Hewitt
• The SaaS Playbook
• MicroConf Connect
• MicroConf Mastermind Matching
• The MicroConf YouTube channel
• TinySeed
• Episode 726 | Selling 29,000 Copies, Information vs. Motivation, and Making Your First Level Last (A Rob Solo Adventure)
• Circle.so
• Ruben Gamez (@earthlingworks) | X
• Lianna Patch (@punchlinecopy) | X
• Derrick Reimer (@derrickreimer) | X
• Ross Hudgens (@RossHudgens) | X
• Episode 628 | The 5 PM Pre-Validation Framework

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 729, join Rob Walling as he shares insights from the 170+ SaaS investments he’s made through his B2B SaaS accelerator, TinySeed. Key patterns include the survivability of SaaS, the lucrative value of these companies, and commonalities across the ones that grow the fastest. To see even more patterns that didn’t make this episode, be sure to check out the MicroConf YouTube channel.

Episode Sponsor:

Hiring senior developers can really move the needle in your business, but if you bring on the wrong person, you can quickly burn through your runway. If you need help finding a vetted, senior, results-oriented developer, you should reach out to today’s sponsor, Lemon.io. 

For years, they’ve been helping our audience find high quality, global talent at competitive rates, and they can help you too.

Longtime listener Chaz Yoon, hired a senior developer from Lemon.io and said his hire ”definitely knew his stuff, provided appropriate feedback and pushback, and had great communication, including very fluent English. He really exceeded my expectations.” 

Chaz said he’d definitely use Lemon.io again when he’s looking for a senior level engineer. 

To learn more and get a 15% discount on your first four weeks of working with a developer at lemon.io/startups. 

Topics we cover: 

• 2:24 – Survivability of B2B SaaS in TinySeed
• 4:09 – SaaS is extremely valuable
• 8:26 – Vertical and orthogonal SaaS face fewer headwinds 
• 12:36 – A supermajority of TinySeed companies want a big exit
• 15:51 – TinySeed founder count aligns with the broader MicroConf ecosystem
• 17:04 – Ruined cap tables have prevented deals
• 19:35 – A quarter of TinySeed companies raise subsequent fundraising
• 21:17 – Common advisory topics: pricing, plateaus, cofounders, funding, selling

Links from the Show: 

• Apply for TinySeed
• Invest in TinySeed
• MicroConf YouTube: 6 Lessons From My Most Successful Investments (B2B SaaS)
• Episode 727 | Gymdesk Sells for More than $32.5 million, Hiring Gets Easier, and More Hot Take Tuesday Topics
• Episode 728 | Bootstrapping Gymdesk to a More Than $32.5M Exit
• State of Independent SaaS Report

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 728, Rob Walling interviews Eran Galperin, founder of Gymdesk, about his incredible exit. Eran shares his journey of transforming Gymdesk from "Martial Arts on Rails" into a successful gym management software company. He discusses how they succeeded in a competitive market, the role of TinySeed in their growth, and how feelings of burnout eventually led to a majority buyout for the company.

Topics we cover: 

• 2:02 – Gymdesk Announces a $32.5 Million Strategic Growth Investment
• 5:13 – How the investment will be used
• 6:38 – Eran’s projects before Gymdesk
• 9:21 – Sticking with one idea long enough to see success
• 12:45 – Entering a competitive market
• 16:37 – Rapid growth as a marketing leader
• 20:54 – Dealing with burnout and entertaining an acquisition
• 26:45 – Handling a stressful sales process
• 32:19 – The future of Gymdesk

Links from the Show: 

• Apply for TinySeed
• Gymdesk Announces a $32.5 Million Strategic Growth Investment from Five Elms Capital
• Episode 727 | Gymdesk Sells for More than $32.5 million, Hiring Gets Easier, and More Hot Take Tuesday Topics
• Gymdesk.com
• Eran Galperin (@erangalperin) | X
• Eran Galperin | LinkedIn
• Eran’s Website
• Financial Independence, Retire Early (FIRE) Explained: How It Works
• Discretion Capital

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 727, Rob Walling is joined by Tracy Osborn and Einar Vollset to give their hot takes on some recent news. First they celebrate Gymdesk’s recent funding and evaluate what that means for TinySeed companies. Then, they weigh in on bootstrapper hiring, grappling with new challenges as MRR grows, and how to really move the needle in your business.

Episode Sponsor:

Hiring senior developers can really move the needle in your business, but if you bring on the wrong person, you can quickly burn through your runway. If you need help finding a vetted, senior, results-oriented developer, you should reach out to today’s sponsor, Lemon.io. 

For years, they’ve been helping our audience find high quality, global talent at competitive rates, and they can help you too.

Longtime listener Chaz Yoon, hired a senior developer from Lemon.io and said his hire ”definitely knew his stuff, provided appropriate feedback and pushback, and had great communication, including very fluent English. He really exceeded my expectations.” 

Chaz said he’d definitely use Lemon.io again when he’s looking for a senior level engineer. 

To learn more and get a 15% discount on your first four weeks of working with a developer at lemon.io/startups. 

Topics we cover: 

• 2:19 – Gymdesk Announces a $32.5 Million Strategic Growth Investment
• 9:06 – Is it getting easier for bootstrappers to hire?
• 12:22 – Facing different challenges as MRR grows   
• 19:37 – Identifying what really moves the needle
• 23:56 – Listen to those who have built businesses before you

Links from the Show: 

• Subscribe to the Startups For the Rest of Us Email List
• TinySeed
• The SaaS Playbook
• Discretion Capital
• Tracy Osborn (@tracymakes) | X
• Einar Vollset (@einarvollset) | X
• TinySeed (@tinyseedfund) | X
• Gymdesk Announces a $32.5 Million Strategic Growth Investment from Five Elms Capital
• Eran Galperin (@erangalperin) | X
• Episode 697 | 7 Predictions for SaaS Bootstrappers in 2024
• State of Independent SaaS Report
• The Elephant in the room: The myth of exponential hypergrowth
• Traction by Gabriel Weinberg and Justin Mares

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 726, join Rob Walling for a solo adventure where he covers several topics. In this episode he reveals the sales details around “The SaaS Playbook” by sharing the volume and sales channel data. He explores the importance of motivation over mere access to information, particularly for developers, with the introduction of AI. Rob also previews several exciting projects to be released in the near future.

Topics we cover: 

• 2:49 – The SaaS Playbook sales channel breakdown
• 8:20 – Learnings from the book launch
• 9:51 – Upcoming books and courses
• 12:07 – ”Teach them how to run fast, better”
• 16:04 – Access to information vs. motivation
• 19:40 – Creating your onboarding last

Links from the Show: 

• Discretion Capital
• Einar Vollset (@einarvollset) | X
• Episode 707 | Once.com, Open Source to FT Income, and More (Hot Take Tuesday)
• TinySeed
• The SaaS Playbook
• The SaaS Launchpad video course
• Sherry Walling (@sherrywalling) | X
• Netflix’s Sprint
• John Romero (@romero) | X
• Masters of Doom by David Kushner
• Doom Guy by John Romero

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 725, join Rob Walling and Ruben Gamez as they answer several more advanced listener questions. They discuss the challenges of pursuing freemium as a bootstrapper and make a suggestion that might surprise you. Rob and Ruben also talk about why building your business as a SaaS founder is usually the best way to build your brand indirectly.

Episode Sponsor:

Hiring senior developers can really move the needle in your business, but if you bring on the wrong person, you can quickly burn through your runway. If you need help finding a vetted, senior, results-oriented developer, you should reach out to today’s sponsor, Lemon.io. 

For years, they’ve been helping our audience find high quality, global talent at competitive rates, and they can help you too.

Longtime listener Chaz Yoon, hired a senior developer from Lemon.io and said his hire ”definitely knew his stuff, provided appropriate feedback and pushback, and had great communication, including very fluent English. He really exceeded my expectations.” 

Chaz said he’d definitely use Lemon.io again when he’s looking for a senior level engineer. 

To learn more and get a 15% discount on your first four weeks of working with a developer at lemon.io/startups. 

Topics we cover: 

• 2:31 – Considering a freemium plan as a bootstrapper
• 9:52 – Freemium, but without the intent to convert free users
• 12:24 – Raising prices as an alternative to starting a freemium plan
• 18:32 – When to start caring about your “brand”
• 25:10 – Investing directly in branding
• 31:00 – Revisiting your marketing funnels
• 34:08 – AI’s impact on SEO
• 38:20 – Google’s search results are already changing

Links from the Show: 

• Get notified about The SaaS LaunchPad
• Ask a Question on SFTROU
• Email a Question on SFTROU
• MicroConf
• TinySeed
• The SaaS Playbook
• Ruben Gamez (@earthlingworks) | X
• SignWell
• Episode 724 | Managing Managers, Breaking Through Plateaus, Thoughts on EOS, and More Later-Stage Listener Questions
• Episode 717 | Bootstrapping to $1.3M ARR and 300,000 Free Users
• Val Sopi (@valsopi) | X
• BlogMaker
• State of Independent SaaS 2024 Report
• Josh Ho (@jlogic) | X
• Lane || Boot.dev (@wagslane) | X

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 724, join Rob Walling as he takes on some later-stage listener questions in another solo adventure. He provides several tips for managing managers, how to break through MRR plateaus, and how to think about SaaS versus agency work. Rob also offers his take on how he would talk about his product at conferences, without overselling it.

Topics we cover: 

• 3:48 – Three tips for managing other managers
• 8:42 – Schedule “skip level” meetings
• 9:50 – Attending a conference without overselling
• 15:00 – Breaking out of the $20k-$30k MRR plateau
• 19:57 – How to keep your self-serve SaaS from becoming an agency
• 23:58 – Scaling management through company growth

Links from the Show: 

• Get tickets for MicroConf Europe in Dubrovnik, Croatia (before August 15th)
• TinySeed
• Christopher Gimmer (@cgimmer) | X
• Episode 480 | Stairstepping Your Way to SaaS with Christopher Gimmer
• Seeking Scale

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 723, Rob Walling interviews Charles Duhigg, a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist and bestselling author, about the significance of effective communication for founders. They discuss practical advice on recognizing different types of conversations, techniques for understanding and transitioning conversations, and how to quickly move past small talk in a conference setting.

Episode Sponsor:

Hiring senior developers can really move the needle in your business, but if you bring on the wrong person, you can quickly burn through your runway. If you need help finding a vetted, senior, results-oriented developer, you should reach out to today’s sponsor, Lemon.io. 

For years, they’ve been helping our audience find high quality, global talent at competitive rates, and they can help you too.

Longtime listener Chaz Yoon, hired a senior developer from Lemon.io and said his hire ”definitely knew his stuff, provided appropriate feedback and pushback, and had great communication, including very fluent English. He really exceeded my expectations.” 

Chaz said he’d definitely use Lemon.io again when he’s looking for a senior level engineer. 

To learn more and get a 15% discount on your first four weeks of working with a developer at lemon.io/startups. 

Topics we cover: 

• 2:42 – What’s a “super communicator?”
• 4:35 – Getting better at being a great communicator
• 8:10 – Identifying the types of conversations you are having
• 11:31 – Transitioning between different types of conversations
• 16:51 – Advice for introverts engaging in deep conversations with new people
• 22:01 – How to quickly improve small talk
• 27:22 – Non-verbal communication has slightly different rules

Links from the Show: 

• MicroConf Connect
• Charles Duhigg (@cduhigg) | X
• Charles Duhigg’s website
• Supercommunicators by Charles Duhigg
• The Power of Habit by Charles Duhigg
• Smarter, Faster, Better by Charles Duhigg
• Crucial Conversations by Joseph Grenny et. al

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 722, Rob Walling interviews James Mooring, co-founder of Astalty, a SaaS serving Australia's NDIS market. James reveals how they bootstrapped from zero to seven figures in just 18 months and then they explore the strategic decisions, clever pricing, and deep industry knowledge that propelled Astalty's remarkable growth, proving their success was far more than just a lucky break.

Episode Sponsor:

If you need help hiring great talent from Latin America and the Philippines, but don’t want to pay ongoing recruitment fees, check out Outwork Staffing.

Outwork Staffing can help you hire customer support, virtual assistants, developers - or whoever you need! You pay a one-time hiring fee after they find your ideal candidate, and that’s it-  there’s no additional costs, even if your new hire stays for years.

If your new hire doesn’t work out, Outwork Staffing will find you a replacement, free of charge within the first 6 months of their employment.

They also provide coaching to help you find, manage, and grow your global team efficiently.

Visit outworkstaffing.com/startups to book a call and get $500 off your first placement by mentioning Startups For the Rest of Us.

Topics we cover: 

• 2:44 – NDIS software for providers of disability care
• 4:23 – Astalty’s rapid growth
• 6:34 – Finding success with a strong co-founder pairing
• 8:39 – Deciding to tailor the Astalty MVP
• 12:25 – Building a free Chrome extension, smart or lucky?
• 17:18 – Launching a paid plan and nailing the pricing
• 21:57 – Explosive word of mouth growth
• 25:19 – Selling at in-person events and in Facebook groups
• 31:02 – A clever way of raising prices
• 35:00 – Learning from fast iteration

Links from the Show: 

• The SaaS Playbook
• TinySeed
• James Mooring | LinkedIn
• Astalty
• How Ben Chestnut Bootstrapped Mailchimp to a $12 Billion Exit
• Question & Answer with Jason Fried, Co-Founder, Basecamp – MicroConf Growth 2019

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 721, Rob Walling and Asia Orangio analyze the results of MicroConf’s 2024 State of Independent SaaS Report. They share their key takeaways including the impact of business models on growth, requiring credit cards for free trials, and how the number of founders affects performance. Additionally, they delve into growth by target markets and the data behind bootstrapped SaaS companies taking funding.

To get your copy of the full report, head to stateofindiesaas.com.

Topics we cover: 

• 2:03 – The State of Independent SaaS Report
• 7:36 – Requiring a credit card upfront
• 10:27 – Three founders perform best
• 14:31 – Free trials and credit cards
• 19:11 – Average growth by target market
• 22:46 – Plans for outside funding
• 25:10 – Credit cards, trials, and churn 
• 32:10 – Advertising channels that are working

Links from the Show: 

• Download the State of Independent SaaS Report
• Subscribe to the MicroConf YouTube channel
• TinySeed
• Rob Walling (@RobWalling) | X
• Asia Orangio (@AsiaOrangio) | X
• DemandMaven

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 720, Rob Walling is joined by Craig Hewitt to discuss the intricacies of prioritization in both business and in life. In addition to running Castos, Craig has started coaching founders in sales and marketing, and describes how he strives to focus on the right things. They talk about buying back their time, creating family-focused time, and share their solo podcasting experience after previously having co-hosts.

Episode Sponsor:

If you need help hiring great talent from Latin America and the Philippines, but don’t want to pay ongoing recruitment fees, check out Outwork Staffing.

Outwork Staffing can help you hire customer support, virtual assistants, developers - or whoever you need! You pay a one-time hiring fee after they find your ideal candidate, and that’s it-  there’s no additional costs, even if your new hire stays for years.

If your new hire doesn’t work out, Outwork Staffing will find you a replacement, free of charge within the first 6 months of their employment.

They also provide coaching to help you find, manage, and grow your global team efficiently.

Visit outworkstaffing.com/startups to book a call and get $500 off your first placement by mentioning Startups For the Rest of Us.

Topics we cover: 

• 3:34 – Prioritizing marketing growth and work-life balance outside of work
• 7:07 – Buying back your time and optimizing for convenience
• 10:08 – Identifying the right things to work on with coaches and masterminds
• 19:42 – Making fewer, bigger decisions as a founder
• 22:01 – Making intentional family-focused time
• 30:03 – How Craig started his coaching
• 36:11 – Podcasting with co-hosts vs. podcasting solo

Links from the Show: 

• MicroConf Connect
• TinySeed
• Craig Hewitt (@TheCraigHewitt) | X
• Castos
• Rogue Startups
• Craig’s Founder Insights Newsletter
• 718 | When to Give Up, Open Source Competition, Painful Features, and More (with Derrick Reimer)
• Episode 644 | Buying Back Your Time with Dan Martell
• Buy Back Your Time by Dan Martell
• Zirtual
• Buying The Future by Craig Hewitt
• The MicroConf YouTube Channel
• Who Not How by Dan Sullivan
• Who: The A Method for Hiring by Geoff Smart, Randy Street
• Quit: The Power of Knowing When to Walk Away by Annie Duke

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 719, join Rob Walling as he embarks on another solo adventure, tackling listener questions. He discusses how to test pricing, addresses the pitfalls of one-time payments vs. SaaS, and he reflects on “building something for everyone.” He wraps up with advice on making better recommendations.

Episode Sponsor:

We have been partnering with Lemon.io for several years, and they’ve proven to be a great choice when it comes to hiring for a highly skilled developer to work on your project.

Here are five reasons why you should consider working with Lemon.io.

1. The time from your request to getting a candidate is just 48 hours.
2. Developers have previously worked with tech giants such as Apple, Google, Netflix, Airbnb, Intel, and LEGO. 
3. They only provide senior devs, with an average of 7 years' experience.
4. Their talent pool covers more than 300 dev languages & frameworks.
5. Your hire comes with a zero-risk, replacement guarantee.

Customers of Lemon.io typically stick around for at least a year, proving they know how to gain your trust by delivering consistent results.

Quit wasting time searching for a solid developer at a great price. Get in touch with Lemon.io.

As a bonus for our podcast listeners, you’ll get a 15% discount on your first four weeks of working with a developer at lemon.io/startups. That’s lemon.io/startups

Topics we cover: 

• 0:58 – Testing different prices for your product
• 8:12 – One-time or lifetime payments 
• 15:02 – Horizontal products, building something for everyone
• 21:43 – Making descriptive recommendations

Links from the Show: 

• 718 | When to Give Up, Open Source Competition, Painful Features, and More (with Derrick Reimer)
• TinySeed
• Building & Scaling Products: Lessons Learned from Four Years and 8,000 Customers – Des Traynor
• Shoe Dog by Phil Knight
• Sid Meier's Memoir! by Sid Meier 
• Masters of Doom by David Kushner
• Doom Guy by John Romero
• The Ultimate Sales Machine by Chet Holmes

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 718, Rob Walling and Derrick Reimer tackle listener questions about giving up on ideas, competing in crowded markets, and developing painful features. They also chat about SavvyCal’s recent design refresh, finding founder-market fit, and whether Derrick has retired from podcasting.

Episode Sponsor:

Is your outsourced development team dropping the ball?

Maybe you’ve worked with a team that just couldn't grasp your vision and needed constant oversight because they weren’t thinking strategically. Or maybe you ended up wasting hours micromanaging, often needing to jump on late-night calls across massive time zone differences to get alignment. And in the end, they delivered a sluggish app with a frustrating UI that didn’t come close to the solution you had envisioned. If any of that sounds familiar, you need to reach out to our sponsor - DevSquad.

DevSquad provides an entire development team packed with top talent from Latin America. 

Your elite squad will include between 2 to 6 Full Stack Developers, a technical product manager, plus experts in product strategy, UI/UX design, DevOps, and QA - all working together to make your SaaS Product a success.

You can ramp up an entire product team fast, in your timezone, and at rates 75% cheaper than a comparable US-based team. And with DevSquad, you pay month to month with no long-term contracts. 

Get the committed, responsive development team that your business deserves.  

Visit DevSquad.com/startups and get 10% off the first three months of your engagement.

Topics we cover: 

• 3:59 – Which feature felt harder and took longer than imagined?
• 9:14 – When is time to give up on a SaaS idea and move on?
• 17:51 – Finding customers in crowded markets with large incumbents
• 23:32 – Has Derrick officially retired from podcasting?
• 25:57 – Handling competitors that are copying differentiating product features
• 28:48 – Evaluating SavvyCal’s refreshed design
• 31:10 – Considering vertical vs. horizontal SaaS for SavvyCal
• 34:05 – Why did Derrick decide to pursue the idea for SavvyCal?
• 40:19 – Finding “founder-fit”

Links from the Show: 

• The SaaS Playbook by Rob Walling
• TinySeed
• Derrick Remier (​​@derrickreimer) | X
• SavvyCal
• Group scheduling mode
• The Build In Public Podcast
• The Art of Product Podcast
• 8 B2B Marketing Strategies That Got My Startup to $10 Million (and 1 that FAILED)
• Finding My Next Bootstrapped Business Idea

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify 

In episode 717, Rob Walling interviews Marie Martin, co-founder of Tally. They discuss the company’s journey to $1.3M ARR and the unusual pricing strategy that got them there. Marie details how they keep their support volume low, how they differentiate Tally from other form builders, and how they grew to over 300,000 free users.

Episode Sponsor:

We have been partnering with Lemon.io for several years, and they’ve proven to be a great choice when it comes to hiring for a highly skilled developer to work on your project.

Here are five reasons why you should consider working with Lemon.io.

1. The time from your request to getting a candidate is just 48 hours.
2. Developers have previously worked with tech giants such as Apple, Google, Netflix, Airbnb, Intel, and LEGO. 
3. They only provide senior devs, with an average of 7 years' experience.
4. Their talent pool covers more than 300 dev languages & frameworks.
5. Your hire comes with a zero-risk, replacement guarantee.

Customers of Lemon.io typically stick around for at least a year, proving they know how to gain your trust by delivering consistent results.

Quit wasting time searching for a solid developer at a great price. Get in touch with Lemon.io.

As a bonus for our podcast listeners, you’ll get a 15% discount on your first four weeks of working with a developer at lemon.io/startups. That’s lemon.io/startups

Topics we cover: 

• 2:22 – Where Tally is today
• 3:53 – Keeping customer support volume low
• 7:12 – Differentiating Tally from other form builders
• 10:55 – The ingredients needed to make “free” work
• 18:31 – ”Shrinking a Market”
• 24:27 – Growing to 300,000+ free users
• 26:47 – Dealing with bad actors
• 29:37 – Applying the learnings from Tally’s success

Links from the Show: 

• Tickets for MicroConf Europe | Oct 6 - 8, 2024, Dubrovnik, Croatia
• Apply for MicroConf Masterminds before June 12th 2024
• Marie Martens (@MarieMartens) | X
• Tally 
• No-Code France
• TinySeed

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 716, join Rob Walling for another solo adventure where he answers listener questions. He shares how he would position against incumbents, when to change an H1, and how choosing a tech stack affects your business valuation. Rob also weighs whether to skip a “Step 1” or “Step 2” business and start directly with a standalone SaaS in the Stair Step Method of Bootstrapping.

Episode Sponsor:

Is your outsourced development team dropping the ball?

Maybe you’ve worked with a team that just couldn't grasp your vision and needed constant oversight because they weren’t thinking strategically. Or maybe you ended up wasting hours micromanaging, often needing to jump on late-night calls across massive time zone differences to get alignment. And in the end, they delivered a sluggish app with a frustrating UI that didn’t come close to the solution you had envisioned. If any of that sounds familiar, you need to reach out to our sponsor - DevSquad.

DevSquad provides an entire development team packed with top talent from Latin America. 

Your elite squad will include between 2 to 6 Full Stack Developers, a technical product manager, plus experts in product strategy, UI/UX design, DevOps, and QA - all working together to make your SaaS Product a success.

You can ramp up an entire product team fast, in your timezone, and at rates 75% cheaper than a comparable US-based team. And with DevSquad, you pay month to month with no long-term contracts. 

Get the committed, responsive development team that your business deserves.  

Visit DevSquad.com/startups and get 10% off the first three months of your engagement.

Topics we cover: 

• 4:07 – How directly should I position my product against incumbents?
• 8:25 – Making and testing changes to your H1
• 12:22 – Identifying and qualifying niches based on traffic
• 18:07 – Should I skip a “Step 1” or “Step 2” business to start a SaaS?
• 20:16 – How a tech stack affects valuations
• 27:29 – Differentiating between B2B and B2C

Links from the Show: 

• Apply for MicroConf Masterminds before June 12th 2024
• Ask a Question on SFTROU
• Episode 673 | Lifetime Plans vs Subscriptions, Testing an Idea With a Landing Page, and More Listener Questions
• Start Small Stay Small by Rob Walling
• The SaaS Playbook by Rob Walling
• The Stair Step Method of Bootstrapping
• Similarweb
• Vertical SaaS vs Horizontal SaaS - Which is More Profitable?

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 715, Rob Walling is joined by Dr. Sherry Walling to discuss a variety of topics. They chat about two recent and meaningful interactions made possible by the Internet, the motivations behind organizing and performing a circus show, and they chat about upcoming launches on the horizon – new books and courses for SaaS founders.

Episode Sponsor:

We have been partnering with Lemon.io for several years, and they’ve proven to be a great choice when it comes to hiring for a highly skilled developer to work on your project.

Here are five reasons why you should consider working with Lemon.io.

1. The time from your request to getting a candidate is just 48 hours.
2. Developers have previously worked with tech giants such as Apple, Google, Netflix, Airbnb, Intel, and LEGO. 
3. They only provide senior devs, with an average of 7 years' experience.
4. Their talent pool covers more than 300 dev languages & frameworks.
5. Your hire comes with a zero-risk, replacement guarantee.

Customers of Lemon.io typically stick around for at least a year, proving they know how to gain your trust by delivering consistent results.

Quit wasting time searching for a solid developer at a great price. Get in touch with Lemon.io.

As a bonus for our podcast listeners, you’ll get a 15% discount on your first four weeks of working with a developer at lemon.io/startups. That’s lemon.io/startups

Topics we cover: 

• 4:00 – Examples of thoughtful, nuanced Internet interactions
• 8:12 – Impacting people you otherwise couldn’t online
• 15:12 – Dr. Sherry Walling’s circus show motivation
• 21:53 – The psychology of business exits
• 25:27 – Commonalities across founders considering exits
• 31:11 – Speaking to the whole lifecycle of a SaaS business

Links from the Show: 

• Apply for MicroConf Masterminds before June 12th 2024
• Sherry Walling (@sherrywalling) | X
• Sherry Walling (@dr.sherrywalling) | Instagram
• TinySeed
• Discretion Capital
• Before The Exit by Dan Andrews
• Episode 532 | The Art of Selling Your Business with John Warrillow
• The Entrepreneur’s Guide to Keeping Your Sh*t Together by Sherry Walling, PhD and Rob Walling
• Enter your email at Robwalling.com
• Sign up for the Zen Founder newsletter

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 714, join Rob Walling for another solo adventure where he answers listener questions. He talks about what to expect when acquiring a competitor and how he might integrate their business. Rob also covers navigating HIPAA compliance as a bootstrapper, how to find a developer co-founder, and he explores the concept of Total Reachable Market (TRM).

Episode Sponsor:

Is your outsourced development team dropping the ball?

Maybe you’ve worked with a team that just couldn't grasp your vision and needed constant oversight because they weren’t thinking strategically. Or maybe you ended up wasting hours micromanaging, often needing to jump on late-night calls across massive time zone differences to get alignment. And in the end, they delivered a sluggish app with a frustrating UI that didn’t come close to the solution you had envisioned. If any of that sounds familiar, you need to reach out to our sponsor - DevSquad.

DevSquad provides an entire development team packed with top talent from Latin America. 

Your elite squad will include between 2 to 6 Full Stack Developers, a technical product manager, plus experts in product strategy, UI/UX design, DevOps, and QA - all working together to make your SaaS Product a success.

You can ramp up an entire product team fast, in your timezone, and at rates 75% cheaper than a comparable US-based team. And with DevSquad, you pay month to month with no long-term contracts. 

Get the committed, responsive development team that your business deserves.  

Visit DevSquad.com/startups and get 10% off the first three months of your engagement.

Topics we cover: 

• 3:45 – How to navigate acquiring a competitor
• 6:34 – How to transition the newly acquired customers into your product
• 9:58 – HIPAA compliance for a bootstrapped MVP
• 13:07 – Total Addressable Market (TAM) vs. Total Reachable Market (TRM)
• 19:01 – How do I find a developer co-founder?
• 28:03 – Can I find data on SaaS app store spending?

Links from the Show: 

• MicroConf Mastermind Program
• TinySeed
• MicroConf Connect
• The SaaS Playbook by Rob Walling
• Start Small Stay Small by Rob Walling

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 713, Rob Walling is joined by Arvid Kahl to share their experience from MicroConf US 2024 in Atlanta. They each discuss their top 5 moments, ranging from Dr. Sherry Walling’s talk on motivation to Ben Chestnut’s chat with Rob onstage. They agree that there’s nothing quite like being in the room with everyone and soaking in all the interactions outside of the official talks. 

If you missed the event and had some MicroConf FOMO, make sure to sign up for our email list to be notified when the tickets for our next event go on sale.! 

Click here to watch Rob’s Fireside Chat with Ben Chestnut!

Episode Sponsor:

We have been partnering with Lemon.io for several years, and they’ve proven to be a great choice when it comes to hiring for a highly skilled developer to work on your project.

Here are five reasons why you should consider working with Lemon.io.

1. The time from your request to getting a candidate is just 48 hours.
2. Developers have previously worked with tech giants such as Apple, Google, Netflix, Airbnb, Intel, and LEGO. 
3. They only provide senior devs, with an average of 7 years' experience.
4. Their talent pool covers more than 300 dev languages & frameworks.
5. Your hire comes with a zero-risk, replacement guarantee.

Customers of Lemon.io typically stick around for at least a year, proving they know how to gain your trust by delivering consistent results.

Quit wasting time searching for a solid developer at a great price. Get in touch with Lemon.io.

As a bonus for our podcast listeners, you’ll get a 15% discount on your first four weeks of working with a developer at lemon.io/startups. That’s lemon.io/startups

Topics we cover: 

• 1:05 – Key takeaways from MicroConf 2024
• 3:45 – Dr. Sherry Walling’s talk on motivation
• 7:02 – Stephen Steer’s sales scripts talk
• 9:25 – Live valuation of a business by Quiet Light Brokerage
• 12:23 – Micro excursions that allow founders to connect with one another
• 14:09 – The hallway track outside of the venue
• 15:53 – ”Nothing beats being in a room”
• 19:22 – Lack of hierarchy among founders
• 22:38 – Lianna Patch’s copywriting swipe file
• 23:50 – Ben Chestnut is just like one of us
• 29:50 – Don’t get stuck with MicroConf FOMO

Links from the Show: 

• MicroConf Europe | Dubrovnik  - October 6 - 8, 2024
• MicroConf US 2025 Waiting List
• Arvid Kahl (@arvidkahl) | X
• The Entrepreneur’s Guide to Keeping Your Sh*t Together by Sherry Walling, PhD and Rob Walling
• Sherry Walling (@sherrywalling) | X
• Superpower Storytelling: A Tactical Guide to Telling the Stories You Need to Lead, Sell and Inspire by Stephen Steers
• Quiet Light
• Lianna Patch (@punchlinecopy) | X
• Watch Ben and Rob’s Fireside Chat at MicroConf Atlanta
• The Bootstrapped Founder
• Zero to Sold by Arvid Kahl
• Podscan

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 712, join Rob Walling for another solo adventure. He starts by revisiting past predictions and provides an update on how he successfully staved off full burnout. Rob then gives updates on this podcast, the progress of TinySeed and MicroConf, and teases two new books that he’s working on.

Episode Sponsor:

Is your outsourced development team dropping the ball?

Maybe you’ve worked with a team that just couldn't grasp your vision and needed constant oversight because they weren’t thinking strategically. Or maybe you ended up wasting hours micromanaging, often needing to jump on late-night calls across massive time zone differences to get alignment. And in the end, they delivered a sluggish app with a frustrating UI that didn’t come close to the solution you had envisioned. If any of that sounds familiar, you need to reach out to our sponsor - DevSquad.

DevSquad provides an entire development team packed with top talent from Latin America. 

Your elite squad will include between 2 to 6 Full Stack Developers, a technical product manager, plus experts in product strategy, UI/UX design, DevOps, and QA - all working together to make your SaaS Product a success.

You can ramp up an entire product team fast, in your timezone, and at rates 75% cheaper than a comparable US-based team. And with DevSquad, you pay month to month with no long-term contracts. 

Get the committed, responsive development team that your business deserves.  

Visit DevSquad.com/startups and get 10% off the first three months of your engagement.

Topics we cover: 

• 1:21 – Revisiting past predictions and reporting back on burnout
• 2:45 – Revisiting predictions for SaaS bootstrappers in 2024
• 5:29 – Twitter changes hands in 2024?
• 6:29 – Reducing travel to quell burnout on the horizon
• 11:45 – State of Startups For the Rest of Us 
• 14:40 – TinySeed invested in over 170+ companies
• 17:54 – First annual TinyFest
• 18:42 – TinySeed Tales Season 5
• 19:50 – The SaaS Playbook and my next two books

Links from the Show: 

• MicroConf Connect
• TinySeed
• The SaaS Playbook by Rob Walling
• Start Small Stay Small by Rob Walling
• Episode 697 | 7 Predictions for SaaS Bootstrappers in 2024
• Vertical SaaS vs Horizontal SaaS - Which is More Profitable?
• State of Independent SaaS
• MicroConf Mastermind Program
• TinyFest Unwrapped: Inside Our First-Ever Founder Conference and Retreat in Cancun
• TinySeed Tales
• Sherry Walling (@sherrywalling) | X
• Zen Founder
• Subscribe to the SFTROU email list for two exclusive episodes
• Ask a Question

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 711, join Rob Walling and Ruben Gamez as they answer listener questions. They chat about finding early customers without an audience, how to approach horizontal vs. vertical product spinoffs, and some considerations for No Code development. They also discuss the challenges of serving prosumer SaaS, the importance of understanding customer segments for pricing strategies, and the dual funnel approach for catering to different customer tiers.

Episode Sponsor:

We have been partnering with Lemon.io for several years, and they’ve proven to be a great choice when it comes to hiring for a highly skilled developer to work on your project.

Here are five reasons why you should consider working with Lemon.io.

1. The time from your request to getting a candidate is just 48 hours.
2. Developers have previously worked with tech giants such as Apple, Google, Netflix, Airbnb, Intel, and LEGO. 
3. They only provide senior devs, with an average of 7 years' experience.
4. Their talent pool covers more than 300 dev languages & frameworks.
5. Your hire comes with a zero-risk, replacement guarantee.

Customers of Lemon.io typically stick around for at least a year, proving they know how to gain your trust by delivering consistent results.

Quit wasting time searching for a solid developer at a great price. Get in touch with Lemon.io.

As a bonus for our podcast listeners, you’ll get a 15% discount on your first four weeks of working with a developer at lemon.io/startups. That’s lemon.io/startups

Topics we cover: 

• 2:00 – Strategies for finding your first users when you don’t have an audience
• 10:42 – Positioning yourself to compete well against others
• 12:25 – Jumping into SEO before having a product
• 18:42 – Exporting No Code projects
• 24:15 – Choosing between a vertical or horizontal product spinoff
• 33:55 – Building a B2P, “business to prosumer” product
• 42:53 – How to make lower pricing tiers work outside of B2B

Links from the Show: 

• MicroConf Connect
• Ruben Gamez (@@earthlingworks) | X
• SignWell
• TinySeed
• Bubble
• MicroConf YouTube channel
• State of Independent SaaS
• Episode 216 | How a Single Founder Launched a 7-Figure SaaS App (with Nate Grahek)
• Sticky 
• Castos
• Episode 480 | Stairstepping Your Way to SaaS with Christopher Gimmer

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 710, join Rob Walling for another solo adventure where he answers listener questions. He answers whether you need a burning passion to be successful in entrepreneurship, and how that relates to developing a product alongside a day job. Rob also discusses competing against VC-backed companies, learning to code in the age of AI, and how much risk lies in IP theft when building your SaaS.

Episode Sponsor:

Is your outsourced development team dropping the ball?

Maybe you’ve worked with a team that just couldn't grasp your vision and needed constant oversight because they weren’t thinking strategically. Or maybe you ended up wasting hours micromanaging, often needing to jump on late-night calls across massive time zone differences to get alignment. And in the end, they delivered a sluggish app with a frustrating UI that didn’t come close to the solution you had envisioned. If any of that sounds familiar, you need to reach out to our sponsor - DevSquad.

DevSquad provides an entire development team packed with top talent from Latin America. 

Your elite squad will include between 2 to 6 Full Stack Developers, a technical product manager, plus experts in product strategy, UI/UX design, DevOps, and QA - all working together to make your SaaS Product a success.

You can ramp up an entire product team fast, in your timezone, and at rates 75% cheaper than a comparable US-based team. And with DevSquad, you pay month to month with no long-term contracts. 

Get the committed, responsive development team that your business deserves.  

Visit DevSquad.com/startups and get 10% off the first three months of your engagement.

Topics we cover: 

• 3:00 – Reacting to needing a burning desire for entrepreneurship
• 5:20 – Maintaining a day job to enable space for entrepreneurial pursuits
• 8:52 – Balancing build speed vs. scalability with your tech stack
• 10:30 – The April Fools Episode
• 12:55 – Competing against VC-backed companies in a “hot” space
• 18:34 – Is learning to code dead?
• 27:33 – Risk in SaaS of IP theft

Links from the Show: 

• MicroConf Connect
• Episode 704 | Landing Pages, Buying a SaaS, the Right Tech Stack, and More Listener Questions
• Episode 706.5 | Rethinking My Most Common Advice
• The SaaS Playbook by Rob Walling
• Start Small Stay Small by Rob Walling
• TinySeed
• Episode 688 | Growing Boot.dev From $6k to $110k in Monthly Revenue in 15 Months
• Ask a Question on SFTROU

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 709, join Rob Walling for a solo adventure as he shares his story of growing his personal wealth over the past few decades. Selling companies was the major driver of wealth, but he also explores the role of cryptocurrency, running profitable companies, and angel investing. Rob emphasizes the power of entrepreneurship in achieving financial freedom, while acknowledging there are ways to do so while keeping risk relatively low.

Episode Sponsor:

We have been partnering with Lemon.io for several years, and they’ve proven to be a great choice when it comes to hiring for a highly skilled developer to work on your project.

Here are five reasons why you should consider working with Lemon.io.

1. The time from your request to getting a candidate is just 48 hours.
2. Developers have previously worked with tech giants such as Apple, Google, Netflix, Airbnb, Intel, and LEGO. 
3. They only provide senior devs, with an average of 7 years' experience.
4. Their talent pool covers more than 300 dev languages & frameworks.
5. Your hire comes with a zero-risk, replacement guarantee.

Customers of Lemon.io typically stick around for at least a year, proving they know how to gain your trust by delivering consistent results.

Quit wasting time searching for a solid developer at a great price. Get in touch with Lemon.io.

As a bonus for our podcast listeners, you’ll get a 15% discount on your first four weeks of working with a developer at lemon.io/startups. That’s lemon.io/startups

Topics we cover: 

• 2:50 – A lesson on how to build wealth
• 4:31 – Entrepreneurship was our biggest tool
• 6:37 – Building, acquiring, then selling companies
• 10:45 – Building slowly while staying risk-averse
• 13:27 – Investing in riskier assets like cryptocurrency
• 19:39 – Running profitable companies
• 20:56 – Angel investing, and WP Engine
• 23:44 – Traditional, salaried employment
• 24:53 – Typical investments: stocks, bonds, REITs
• 27:36 – Real estate investing

Links from the Show: 

• MicroConf Connect
• Christopher Gimmer (@cgimmer) | X
• Christopher’s tweet
• Sherry Walling (@sherrywalling) | X
• The Stair Step Method of Bootstrapping
• Start Small Stay Small by Rob Walling
• This Took 11 Years to Be An "Overnight Success" - SaaS Exit Strategy
• Zen Founder
• The SaaS Playbook by Rob Walling
• WP Engine
• TinySeed
• Barbell Strategy Explained for Stock and Bond Investors

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 708, Rob Walling and Derrick Reimer tackle listener questions about building development skills vs. business skills and strategies for entering competitive markets. They also chat about building on top of AI services, addressing the risks of platform dependency and the importance of managing infrastructure costs. 

Episode Sponsor:

Is your outsourced development team dropping the ball?

Maybe you’ve worked with a team that just couldn't grasp your vision and needed constant oversight because they weren’t thinking strategically. Or maybe you ended up wasting hours micromanaging, often needing to jump on late-night calls across massive time zone differences to get alignment. And in the end, they delivered a sluggish app with a frustrating UI that didn’t come close to the solution you had envisioned. If any of that sounds familiar, you need to reach out to our sponsor - DevSquad.

DevSquad provides an entire development team packed with top talent from Latin America. 

Your elite squad will include between 2 to 6 Full Stack Developers, a technical product manager, plus experts in product strategy, UI/UX design, DevOps, and QA - all working together to make your SaaS Product a success.

You can ramp up an entire product team fast, in your timezone, and at rates 75% cheaper than a comparable US-based team. And with DevSquad, you pay month to month with no long-term contracts. 

Get the committed, responsive development team that your business deserves.  

Visit DevSquad.com/startups and get 10% off the first three months of your engagement.

Topics we cover: 

• 02:38 - Should you build technical skills or business skills?
• 11:41- Entering a competitive market
• 21:14 - Building a valuable analytics dashboard tool
• 29:29 - When should a solo founder hire for marketing roles?
• 36:29 - The rare skillset of a full-stack marketer 
• 38:18 - Implications of building on openAI and scaling infrastructure costs

Links from the Show: 

• Register for MicroConf US in Atlanta, April 2024
• Rob Walling | X
• Derrick Reimer | X
• Derrick Reimer
• SavvyCal
• Start Small Stay Small by Rob Walling
• The SaaS Playbook by Rob Walling
• Devin AI

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 707, Rob Walling, alongside guests Tracy Osborn and Einar Vollset, give their hot takes on some recent news in the world of SaaS. They discuss Once.com’s launch, liquidation preference nuances in startup buyouts, with moving from open source to full time income and more. 

Episode Sponsor:

Find your perfect developer or a team at Lemon.io/startups

The competition for incredible engineers and developers has never been more fierce. Lemon.io helps you cut through the noise and find great talent through its network of engineers in Europe and Latin America.

They take care of the vetting, interviewing, and testing of candidates to make sure that you are working with someone who can hit the ground running.

When it comes to hiring, the time it takes to write your job description, list the position, review resumes, schedule interviews, and make an offer can take weeks, if not months. With Lemon.io, you can cut down on a lot of that time by tapping into their wide network of developers who can get started in as early as a week.

And for subscribers of Startups For the Rest of Us, you can get 15% off your first 4 week contract with a developer by visiting lemon.io/startups

Topics we cover: 

• 2:18 - Once.com and the Implications of One-Time Software Sales
• 10:39 - Liquidation Preferences in Startup Acquisitions
• 21:59 - Turning an open source project into a business
• 24:32 - Book recommendations
• 30:30 - Is building a startup actually hard?
• 32:46 - Startups vs. lifestyle businesses

Links from the Show: 

• Register for MicroConf US in Atlanta, April 2024
• Once.com
• Campfire
• Venture Deals: Be Smarter Than Your Lawyer and Venture Capitalist by Brad Feld
• Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss
• The Anomaly by Herv Le Tellier
• The Art of Learning by Josh Waitzkin
• The Beginning of Infinity by David Deutsch
• TinySeed
• Einar Vollset (@EinarVollset) | X
• Tracy Osborn (@itsTracyMakes) | TikTok

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 706.5, join Rob Walling as he reconsiders some of his most common advice. He explores why lowering prices might make sense and discusses the benefits of a B2C business model. Rob also walks back his prior advice on bootstrapping two-sided marketplaces and launching multiple products to see what sticks. 

Topics we cover: 

• 1:04 – What would happen if you lowered prices?
• 3:56 – Benefits of a B2C approach
• 7:05 – Two-sided marketplaces allow to reach two audiences
• 8:47 – Launch a bunch of products to see what sticks
• 10:52 – This episode was released April 1, 2024

Links from the Show: 

• The SaaS Playbook
• Rob Walling (@robwalling) | X

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

MicroConf US in Atlanta is here in just a couple weeks, and this is your last call to buy tickets. We've sold more than 90% of the tickets, and we will sell this event out as we have for many years. The event is April 21st through the 23rd in Atlanta, Georgia at the amazing Starling Atlanta.

There are going to be 200-ish of your closest bootstrapped and mostly bootstrapped founder friends who are showing up to hear talks from folks like Rand Fishkin of SparkToro, Asia Orangio of DemandMaven. I'm giving a talk as well, and Dr. Sherry Walling will be talking about staying motivated as an entrepreneur. We have a special guest MC, Lianna Patch, and we'll have a very special guest who has never appeared on the MicroConf stage before- Ben Chestnut, the co-founder of MailChimp.

Get all the details and secure your ticket before they run out at microconf.com/americas.

In episode 706, join Rob Walling for a solo adventure where he discusses a variety of topics. He starts with why it’s important to both consider and credit “prior art” in business. Rob outlines his 2/20/200 idea validation framework used to repeatedly evaluate ideas. He also covers why, though there are some advantages, designing by committee has some significant downsides. 

Episode Sponsor:

Is your outsourced development team dropping the ball?

Maybe you’ve worked with a team that just couldn't grasp your vision and needed constant oversight because they weren’t thinking strategically. Or maybe you ended up wasting hours micromanaging, often needing to jump on late-night calls across massive time zone differences to get alignment. And in the end, they delivered a sluggish app with a frustrating UI that didn’t come close to the solution you had envisioned. If any of that sounds familiar, you need to reach out to our sponsor - DevSquad.

DevSquad provides an entire development team packed with top talent from Latin America. 

Your elite squad will include between 2 to 6 Full Stack Developers, a technical product manager, plus experts in product strategy, UI/UX design, DevOps, and QA - all working together to make your SaaS Product a success.

You can ramp up an entire product team fast, in your timezone, and at rates 75% cheaper than a comparable US-based team. And with DevSquad, you pay month to month with no long-term contracts. 

Get the committed, responsive development team that your business deserves.  

Visit DevSquad.com/startups and get 10% off the first three months of your engagement.

Topics we cover: 

• 2:37 – Learning from, and crediting, prior art
• 10:27 – The 2/20/200 Idea Validation Framework
• 16:03 – Be wary when designing by committee
• 21:09 – When to crowdsource feedback

Links from the Show: 

• Register for MicroConf US in Atlanta, April 2024
• Do Things That Don’t Scale by Paul Graham
• David Sacks (@DavidSacks) | X
• Hackers and Painters by Paul Graham
• Episode 705 | From Bootstrapped to Mostly Bootstrapped
• Episode 628 | The 5 P.M. Idea Validation Framework
• Use This PROVEN Formula to Validate Your Next Startup Idea
• Validate Your SaaS Idea FAST (Step-by-Step SaaS Validation Process)✅
• Start Small Stay Small by Rob Walling
• Metallica: Some Kind of Monster

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 705, Rob Walling interviews Braden Dennis, co-founder and CEO of FinChat. They discuss Braden’s journey going from fully bootstrapped, all the way to taking venture capital as FinChat scaled. Braden shares his experience in initially launching to an audience, how they successfully launched a second product, and how FinChat operates well with multiple co-founders.

Episode Sponsor:

Find your perfect developer or a team at Lemon.io/startups

The competition for incredible engineers and developers has never been more fierce. Lemon.io helps you cut through the noise and find great talent through its network of engineers in Europe and Latin America.

They take care of the vetting, interviewing, and testing of candidates to make sure that you are working with someone who can hit the ground running.

When it comes to hiring, the time it takes to write your job description, list the position, review resumes, schedule interviews, and make an offer can take weeks, if not months. With Lemon.io, you can cut down on a lot of that time by tapping into their wide network of developers who can get started in as early as a week.

And for subscribers of Startups For the Rest of Us, you can get 15% off your first 4 week contract with a developer by visiting lemon.io/startups

Topics we cover: 

• 2:55 – What does FinChat look like today?
• 4:00 – Starting with an audience and building a SaaS
• 6:40 – Formulating the product and moving upmarket
• 8:35 – Launching a second product
• 12:25 – The common pitfall of launching a second product
• 16:25 – How FinChat found explosive growth
• 19:27 – Deciding to take venture funding 
• 26:13 – Making hard decisions with incomplete information
• 30:31 – Working with multiple co-founders

Links from the Show: 

• Register for MicroConf US in Atlanta, April 2024
• Apply for Director of Marketing and Operations for MicroConf
• MicroConf YouTube Channel
• TinySeed
• Braden Dennis (@BradoCapital) | X
• FinChat (@finchat_io) | X
• FinChat
• Episode 681 | Why Launching a Second Product is Usually a Bad Idea

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 704, join Rob Walling for another solo adventure where he answers listener questions. He weighs in on buying a SaaS, how to validate ideas using landing pages, and what tech stack to choose. Rob also provides guidance for those considering leaving their comfortable day jobs in favor of being a founder.

Episode Sponsor:

Is your outsourced development team dropping the ball?

Maybe you’ve worked with a team that just couldn't grasp your vision and needed constant oversight because they weren’t thinking strategically. Or maybe you ended up wasting hours micromanaging, often needing to jump on late-night calls across massive time zone differences to get alignment. And in the end, they delivered a sluggish app with a frustrating UI that didn’t come close to the solution you had envisioned. If any of that sounds familiar, you need to reach out to our sponsor - DevSquad.

DevSquad provides an entire development team packed with top talent from Latin America. 

Your elite squad will include between 2 to 6 Full Stack Developers, a technical product manager, plus experts in product strategy, UI/UX design, DevOps, and QA - all working together to make your SaaS Product a success.

You can ramp up an entire product team fast, in your timezone, and at rates 75% cheaper than a comparable US-based team. And with DevSquad, you pay month to month with no long-term contracts. 

Get the committed, responsive development team that your business deserves.  

Visit DevSquad.com/startups and get 10% off the first three months of your engagement.

Topics we cover: 

• 4:00 – Comparing your business to successful outliers
• 9:50 – Exploring business outside of a comfortable day job
• 15:45 – Early access landing pages prior to development
• 20:00 – How do you vet SaaS businesses that you are trying to acquire? 
• 27:16 – Evaluating a seller’s intentions
• 29:50 – Choosing a tech stack for your SaaS

Links from the Show: 

• MicroConf Remote – Early Stage Saas Strategies
• Register for MicroConf US in Atlanta, April 2024
• Apply for Director of Marketing and Operations for MicroConf
• MicroConf Connect
• Startups For The Rest of Us – Ask a question
• 37signals
• 7 Proven Ways to Create Profitable SaaS Ideas EVERY Time
• The SaaS Playbook
• Quiet Light
• Acquire.com
• The Stair Step Method of Bootstrapping

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 703, Rob Walling interviews Jordan Hansen, founder of Cobalt Intelligence. They dive into Jordan's unexpected journey into SaaS and the growth of his company, which specializes in business verification through API. Jordan reflects on quitting his job to pursue his startup and the benefits of community and mentorship he has received from TinySeed. 

Episode Sponsor:

Find your perfect developer or a team at Lemon.io/startups

The competition for incredible engineers and developers has never been more fierce. Lemon.io helps you cut through the noise and find great talent through its network of engineers in Europe and Latin America.

They take care of the vetting, interviewing, and testing of candidates to make sure that you are working with someone who can hit the ground running.

When it comes to hiring, the time it takes to write your job description, list the position, review resumes, schedule interviews, and make an offer can take weeks, if not months. With Lemon.io, you can cut down on a lot of that time by tapping into their wide network of developers who can get started in as early as a week.

And for subscribers of Startups For the Rest of Us, you can get 15% off your first 4 week contract with a developer by visiting lemon.io/startups

Topics we cover: 

• 2:30 – What does Cobalt Intelligence offer?
• 5:45 – Team scale, market, and business origins 
• 9:55 – Starting YouTube and finding motivation to continually publish
• 13:27 – Working with a savings runway and applying to TinySeed
• 23:50 – Finding product-market fit
• 26:58 – Unlisting content to align with business goals
• 31:50 – “Accidental” SaaS founder

Links from the Show: 

• Register for MicroConf US in Atlanta, April 2024
• TinySeed
• The SaaS Playbook
• Jordan Hansen (@JordBHansen) | X
• Cobalt Intelligence (@CobaltIntell) | X
• Cobalt Intelligence 
• Lianna Patch (@punchlinecopy) | X
• The Stair Step Method of Bootstrapping
• Soft Skills: The software developer's life manual by John Sonmez 
• Episode 698 | How to Launch a Million Dollar Business (With Noah Kagan)
• Episode 696 | The Truth about Product-Market Fit + Doing Sales as an Introvert (With Ruben Gamez)
• Cobalt Intelligence YouTube channel

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 702, join Rob Walling for another solo adventure where he answers listener questions. He answers how to introduce friends to bootstrapping, when to lower your prices, and addresses the difference in revenue and profit multiple valuations. Rob also offers advice when weighing a career move versus building side projects and scaling your MVP.

Episode Sponsor:

Is your outsourced development team dropping the ball?

Maybe you’ve worked with a team that just couldn't grasp your vision and needed constant oversight because they weren’t thinking strategically. Or maybe you ended up wasting hours micromanaging, often needing to jump on late-night calls across massive time zone differences to get alignment. And in the end, they delivered a sluggish app with a frustrating UI that didn’t come close to the solution you had envisioned. If any of that sounds familiar, you need to reach out to our sponsor - DevSquad.

DevSquad provides an entire development team packed with top talent from Latin America. 

Your elite squad will include between 2 to 6 Full Stack Developers, a technical product manager, plus experts in product strategy, UI/UX design, DevOps, and QA - all working together to make your SaaS Product a success.

You can ramp up an entire product team fast, in your timezone, and at rates 75% cheaper than a comparable US-based team. And with DevSquad, you pay month to month with no long-term contracts. 

Get the committed, responsive development team that your business deserves.  

Visit DevSquad.com/startups and get 10% off the first three months of your engagement.

Topics we cover: 

• 3:15 – How to introduce friends to entrepreneurship and bootstrapping 
• 6:00 – When to focus on profit vs. top-line revenue
• 10:40 – Considerations for building, scaling, and differentiating an MVP
• 15:45 – Rare circumstances where you should lower prices
• 20:25 – Pursuing career moves vs. building on the side
• 23:43 – Managing cap tables and equity vesting

Links from the Show: 

• MicroConf Remote – Early Stage Saas Strategies
• TinySeed
• The Stair Step Method of Bootstrapping
• Start Small, Stay Small
• The SaaS Playbook
• MicroConf YouTube Channel: Building Your First SaaS: The Ultimate Crash Course
• SFTROU Greatest Hits
• Episode 222 | The Stair Step Approach to Launching Products
• What is a SAFE?

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 701, Rob Walling interviews Matt Wensing, founder of Summit, a SaaS platform for lead scoring and qualification. Matt shares insights on finding product-market fit, the importance of following customer workflows to get there, and the challenges of marketing and positioning. Rob asks about his choice to raise venture capital, and how keeping a lean team maximizes that opportunity.

Episode Sponsor:

Find your perfect developer or a team at Lemon.io/startups

The competition for incredible engineers and developers has never been more fierce. Lemon.io helps you cut through the noise and find great talent through its network of engineers in Europe and Latin America.

They take care of the vetting, interviewing, and testing of candidates to make sure that you are working with someone who can hit the ground running.

When it comes to hiring, the time it takes to write your job description, list the position, review resumes, schedule interviews, and make an offer can take weeks, if not months. With Lemon.io, you can cut down on a lot of that time by tapping into their wide network of developers who can get started in as early as a week.

And for subscribers of Startups For the Rest of Us, you can get 15% off your first 4 week contract with a developer by visiting lemon.io/startups

Topics we cover: 

• 2:27 – “Traveling many H1’s”, refining a target market 
• 5:44 – Moving back to a self-serve model
• 10:52 – Niching down to achieve stronger product-market fit
• 12:53 – Tactics that Matt used to achieve traction
• 16:54 – Lead scoring by behavior and persona-fit 
• 19:20 – Scoring as a whole product vs. as only a feature
• 23:31 – Pursuing VC with a lean team
• 29:09 – Who is your ideal customer profile?

Links from the Show: 

• Apply for Tinyseed Feb 12th through Feb 25th
• MicroConf Remote – Early Stage Saas Strategies
• Matt Wensing (@mattwensing) | X
• Summit
• Episode 696 | The Truth about Product-Market Fit + Doing Sales as an Introvert (With Ruben Gamez)
• Out of Beta
• Episode 633 | Building SaaS Plus a Two-Sided Marketplace
• The SaaS Playbook
• "How I Sold My SaaS in An 8-Figure Exit" with Matt Wensing

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 700, Rob goes solo to celebrate another milestone of Startups For the Rest of Us. He reflects on playing the long game and doing so publicly enough to create larger luck surface area. He also emphasizes building skills in the process, and highlights several founders who have done this well.

Episode Sponsor:

Is your outsourced development team dropping the ball?

Maybe you’ve worked with a team that just couldn't grasp your vision and needed constant oversight because they weren’t thinking strategically. Or maybe you ended up wasting hours micromanaging, often needing to jump on late-night calls across massive time zone differences to get alignment. And in the end, they delivered a sluggish app with a frustrating UI that didn’t come close to the solution you had envisioned. If any of that sounds familiar, you need to reach out to our sponsor - DevSquad.

DevSquad provides an entire development team packed with top talent from Latin America. 

Your elite squad will include between 2 to 6 Full Stack Developers, a technical product manager, plus experts in product strategy, UI/UX design, DevOps, and QA - all working together to make your SaaS Product a success.

You can ramp up an entire product team fast, in your timezone, and at rates 75% cheaper than a comparable US-based team. And with DevSquad, you pay month to month with no long-term contracts. 

Get the committed, responsive development team that your business deserves.  

Visit DevSquad.com/startups and get 10% off the first three months of your engagement.

Topics we cover: 

• 2:41 – Balancing short vs. long term thinking and decision making
• 7:30 – Examples of founders leaning into the long game
• 12:18 – Putting in the time, and doing it publicly (enough)
• 16:42 – Lucky or smart?
• 21:22 – How do I know if I’m playing the correct long game?
• 23:54 – Acquiring skills as you play the long game
• 27:13 – Cheers to 700!

Links from the Show: 

• Apply for TinySeed Spring 2024
• MicroConf
• TinySeed
• Start Small, Stay Small by Rob Walling
• Gather
• TinySeed Tales S2E1 | Introducing Gather
• Lucky or Smart? by Bo Peabody

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 699, Rob Walling chats with fan favorite Derrick Reimer, the founder of SavvyCal, about scaling products tastefully. Derrick offers his perspective on maintaining a tidy UX and deciding which features to implement. They also cover best practices for maintaining knowledge bases, changelogs, and documentation. As a bonus, Rob and Derrick offer podcasting advice to their past selves.

Episode Sponsor:

Find your perfect developer or a team at Lemon.io/startups

The competition for incredible engineers and developers has never been more fierce. Lemon.io helps you cut through the noise and find great talent through its network of engineers in Europe and Latin America.

They take care of the vetting, interviewing, and testing of candidates to make sure that you are working with someone who can hit the ground running.

When it comes to hiring, the time it takes to write your job description, list the position, review resumes, schedule interviews, and make an offer can take weeks, if not months. With Lemon.io, you can cut down on a lot of that time by tapping into their wide network of developers who can get started in as early as a week.

And for subscribers of Startups For the Rest of Us, you can get 15% off your first 4 week contract with a developer by visiting lemon.io/startups

Topics we cover: 

• 2:35 – Establish design systems and language as you scale your product
• 8:36 – Building out a front-end directory to maintain consistency
• 10:17 – Truly understand how customers are moving through your product
• 16:28 – Naming convention dilemmas, industry norms vs. accuracy
• 19:22 – Hiding product features with feature flags
• 23:04 – Scaling new products that serve different verticals
• 31:12 – Best practices for maintaining a product knowledge base
• 37:11 – Bonus: What advice would you give to your prior self starting a podcast?

Links from the Show: 

• Register for MicroConf US in Atlanta, April 2024
• The SaaS Playbook
• Derrick Reimer (@derrickreimer) I X
• SavvyCal 
• Allen D King (@allendking) | X
• FunJoin
• FullStory
• Episode 681 | Why Launching a Second Product is Usually a Bad Idea
• Help Scout Knowledge Base
• Headway Changelog
• CleanShot X

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 698, Rob Walling interviews Noah Kagan, CEO of AppSumo. They discuss the importance of eliminating distractions, cover strategies that led to growth in Noah’s businesses, and share insights from growing YouTube channels. Noah also shares why he decided to write his new book, Million Dollar Weekend.

Episode Sponsor:

Is your outsourced development team dropping the ball?

Maybe you’ve worked with a team that just couldn't grasp your vision and needed constant oversight because they weren’t thinking strategically. Or maybe you ended up wasting hours micromanaging, often needing to jump on late-night calls across massive time zone differences to get alignment. And in the end, they delivered a sluggish app with a frustrating UI that didn’t come close to the solution you had envisioned. If any of that sounds familiar, you need to reach out to our sponsor - DevSquad.

DevSquad provides an entire development team packed with top talent from Latin America. 

Your elite squad will include between 2 to 6 Full Stack Developers, a technical product manager, plus experts in product strategy, UI/UX design, DevOps, and QA - all working together to make your SaaS Product a success.

You can ramp up an entire product team fast, in your timezone, and at rates 75% cheaper than a comparable US-based team. And with DevSquad, you pay month to month with no long-term contracts. 

Get the committed, responsive development team that your business deserves.  

Visit DevSquad.com/startups and get 10% off the first three months of your engagement.

Topics we cover: 

• 2:38 – Making good decisions, consistently
• 5:47 – Noah’s disappointment in selling Sumo
• 13:20 – Strategies and decisions that led to growth
• 15:46 – Focus on eliminating distractions
• 20:15 – Noah returns as AppSumo CEO
• 23:20 – Making the mistake of not listening to customers
• 26:55 –Growing a YouTube Channel to 1M+ subscribers 
• 35:03 – The role of YouTube content in supporting AppSumo
• 37:11 – Building a million dollar business in a weekend

Links from the Show: 

• Register for MicroConf US in Atlanta, April 2024
• Million Dollar Weekend by Noah Kagan
• Noah Kagan (@noahkagan) | X
• Born Standing Up: A Comic's Life by Steve Martin
• Sumo
• AppSumo
• TidyCal
• SendFox
• KingSumo
• Noah’s YouTube Channel

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 697, join Rob Walling for a solo adventure where he makes predictions for SaaS in 2024. His predictions focus on Vertical SaaS, emerging markets, the professionalization of No-Code, subscription fatigue,  AI and more. At the end of the episode, he evaluates predictions he made over the past 10 years to see if they held up.

Episode Sponsor:

Find your perfect developer or a team at Lemon.io/startups

The competition for incredible engineers and developers has never been more fierce. Lemon.io helps you cut through the noise and find great talent through its network of engineers in Europe and Latin America.

They take care of the vetting, interviewing, and testing of candidates to make sure that you are working with someone who can hit the ground running.

When it comes to hiring, the time it takes to write your job description, list the position, review resumes, schedule interviews, and make an offer can take weeks, if not months. With Lemon.io, you can cut down on a lot of that time by tapping into their wide network of developers who can get started in as early as a week.

And for subscribers of Startups For the Rest of Us, you can get 15% off your first 4 week contract with a developer by visiting lemon.io/startups

Topics we cover: 

• 1:32 – Opportunity in vertical SaaS
• 3:48 – SaaS will continue to grow in emerging markets
• 5:08 – Twitter changes hands in 2024?
• 6:56 – Subscription fatigue has little impact on adoption of B2B SaaS
• 8:13 – No-Code and Low-Code will undergo “professionalization”
• 10:24 – Is it hype, or is it not? How AI will continue to develop this year
• 14:11 – Will Stripe go public?
• 17:08 – Revisiting past predictions: SaaS, Twitter, VR, crypto, markets, & gadgets

Links from the Show: 

• Call for Pitches
• TinySeed Portfolio
• Start Small Stay Small
• Dave Kellett (@davekellett) | X
• Once.com

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 696, Rob Walling and Ruben Gamez cover a variety of topics. They discuss how product market fit is achieved across customer segments and use cases, not simply broadly. Ruben shares how he approaches effective decision making and sales as an introvert. They wrap up by sharing how they evaluate candidates when hiring to build their teams.

Topics we cover: 

• 4:47 – Product market fit, increasing average revenue per customer
• 7:58 – When did you know you had product market fit?
• 11:03 – Product market fit is a continuum, and use case specific
• 14:27 – Making hard decisions around product market fit
• 19:01 – Getting better at prioritizing and making hard decisions
• 27:38 – Doing sales as an introvert
• 33:09 – Building a functional team that gets stuff done
• 40:10 – Evaluating potential hires

Links from the Show: 

• MicroConf Sponsorships
• Microconf Connect
• Ruben Gamez (@earthlingworks) | X
• SignWell
• Episode 695 | Ideal Customers, Moving from B2C to B2B, and More Listener Questions (with Asia Orangio)
• The SaaS Playbook
• Dynamite Jobs
• Who: The A Method for Hiring by Geoff Smart, Randy Street
• Crucial Conversations by Joseph Grenny, Kerry Patterson, et al. 

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 695, Rob Walling and Asia Orangio answer listener questions. They take questions about ideal target customers, moving from B2C to B2B, and how to advertise for a product in a new space. They wrap up discussing the challenges of making freemium work while bootstrapping.

Episode Sponsor:

Find your perfect developer or a team at Lemon.io/startups

The competition for incredible engineers and developers has never been more fierce. Lemon.io helps you cut through the noise and find great talent through its network of engineers in Europe and Latin America.

They take care of the vetting, interviewing, and testing of candidates to make sure that you are working with someone who can hit the ground running.

When it comes to hiring, the time it takes to write your job description, list the position, review resumes, schedule interviews, and make an offer can take weeks, if not months. With Lemon.io, you can cut down on a lot of that time by tapping into their wide network of developers who can get started in as early as a week.

And for subscribers of Startups For the Rest of Us, you can get 15% off your first 4 week contract with a developer by visiting lemon.io/startups

Topics we cover: 

• 4:06 – Adjusting your target customers to chase an opportunity
• 11:58 – Is translating marketing or educational content worth it?
• 16:46 – Moving from B2C to B2B
• 25:53 – Defining a cross-channel marketing approach
• 33:22 – Advertising for a product in new product category
• 41:40 – The issues with making freemium work while bootstrapping.

Links from the Show: 

• State of Independent SaaS Report
• MicroConf Mastermind Program
• Asia Orangio (@AsiaOrangio) | X
• DemandMaven
• Episode 681 | Why Launching a Second Product is Usually a Bad Idea
• User Interviews
• Episode 685 | 7 Things You Should Never Do (A Rob Solo Adventure)
• Four Fits for $100M+ Growth by Brian Balfour
• Brian Balfour (@bbalfour) | X
• Reforge
• Continuous Discovery Habits by Teresa Torres

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 694, join Rob Walling as he recaps 2023. He reflects on growing TinySeed, MicroConf, the YouTube channel and this podcast. Rob also addresses his struggle with "arrival fallacy" and the continuous journey of success. Alongside the growth, he describes seeing burnout on the horizon, emphasizes the importances of addressing that early, and what it means for him and his team in 2024.

Episode Sponsor:

Going from an idea sketched on the back of a napkin to a robust, stable product requires a wide range of skills. You can spend ages looking for a one-in-a-million developer who can do it all, or you can quickly ramp up an entire product team to help you build and launch your product with our sponsor - DevSquad.

DevSquad provides an entire development team packed with top talent from Latin America. 

Your elite squad will include between 2 to 6 Full Stack Developers, a technical product manager, plus experts in product strategy, UI/UX design, DevOps, and QA - all working together to make your SaaS Product a success.

You can ramp up an entire product team fast, in your timezone, and at rates 75% cheaper than a comparable US-based team. And with DevSquad, you pay month to month with no long-term contracts. 

Take the hassle out of assembling and managing a sprawling team of freelancers and work with a group that’s ready to hit the ground running.

Visit DevSquad.com/startups and get 10% off your engagement. 

Topics we cover: 

• 4:20 – 2023 growth, launch of The SaaS Playbook
• 6:04 – Audience growth and supporting the mission
• 7:24 – Seeing burnout on the horizon, content calendars, and travel
• 11:49 – Dealing with burnout if you are experiencing it
• 14:18 – Adjusting travel schedules and amount
• 15:39 – Doing the things that “give me life”, sustainably

Links from the Show: 

• TinySeed
• Get Your tickets for MicroConf Atlanta
• State of Independent SaaS Report
• The SaaS Playbook
• Subscribe to the MicroConf YouTube channel
• Start Small Stay Small
• Episode 670 | Relying on Luck, Avoiding Burnout, and Bad Player vs. Bad Instrument (A Rob Solo Adventure)
• The Entrepreneur’s Guide to Keeping Your Sh*t Together
• The Zen Founder Guide to Founder Retreats

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 693, Rob Walling interviews Grant McConnaughey, founder of Postpone, a social media scheduling tool. They discuss the app's growth from inception to mid six figures, early growth tactics, a successful price increase, and platform risks with Reddit and Twitter. Grant also shares his experience going all-in on one idea, joining TinySeed, and reveals what he can still improve upon.

Topics we cover: 

• 2:04 – Postpone starts off as part of a New Year’s resolution
• 4:13 – Validating and building the MVP to schedule content for Reddit 
• 6:44 – Launching lean to slow growth in the beginning
• 9:10 – Doing things that don’t scale 
• 10:53 – What were the reasons for joining TinySeed
• 13:06 – Full time focus and pricing changes enabled strong growth for Postpone
• 17:15 – Initial hesitation for raising prices at first
• 22:08 – Experiencing and overcoming Reddit platform risk
• 26:00 – What could Grant be doing better?

Links from the Show: 

• MicroConf Connect
• TinySeed
• Grant McConnaughey (@gmcconnaughey) | X
• Postone’s MRR graph | X
• Postpone
• Adam Wathan (@adamwathan) | X
• Traction by Gabriel Weinberg and Justin Mares

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 692, join Rob Walling for a solo adventure where he addresses a variety of topics. He stresses revisiting your onboarding to evaluate your product’s “minimum path to awesome” and warns of conducting “mirror research” instead of market research. Rob also tackles why being the cheapest option is not always the best positioning.

Episode Sponsor:

Find your perfect developer or a team at Lemon.io/startups

The competition for incredible engineers and developers has never been more fierce. Lemon.io helps you cut through the noise and find great talent through its network of engineers in Europe and Latin America.

They take care of the vetting, interviewing, and testing of candidates to make sure that you are working with someone who can hit the ground running.

When it comes to hiring, the time it takes to write your job description, list the position, review resumes, schedule interviews, and make an offer can take weeks, if not months. With Lemon.io, you can cut down on a lot of that time by tapping into their wide network of developers who can get started in as early as a week.

And for subscribers of Startups For the Rest of Us, you can get 15% off your first 4 week contract with a developer by visiting lemon.io/startups

Topics we cover: 

• 1:33 – Walking customers through signup to first value, revisit your onboarding
• 4:29 – The early entrepreneur’s trap: "We are pre-revenue still…”
• 8:31 – Not being the cheapest option
• 14:31 – Mirror research vs. market research
• 17:16 – Learn the rules like a pro so you can break them like an artist

Links from the Show: 

• Register for MicroConf US in Atlanta, April 2024
• The SaaS Playbook
• Episode 456 | Launching a 2nd Product + Revisiting Freemium with Ruben Gamez
• TinySeed Mentors
• Comic Lab
• Episode 685 | 7 Things You Should Never Do (A Rob Solo Adventure)
• Episode 687 | An 8th Thing You Should Never Do, Things That Don’t Scale, and More Rob Solo Topics

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 691, join Rob Walling for another solo adventure where he answers listener questions. He evaluates freemium as it relates to paying by the “honor system”, competing  against big incumbents, and whether to sell using high-touch vs. low-touch strategies. Rob also recommends books for introverts looking for sales advice.  

Episode Sponsor:

Find your perfect developer or a team at Lemon.io/startups

The competition for incredible engineers and developers has never been more fierce. Lemon.io helps you cut through the noise and find great talent through its network of engineers in Europe and Latin America.

They take care of the vetting, interviewing, and testing of candidates to make sure that you are working with someone who can hit the ground running.

When it comes to hiring, the time it takes to write your job description, list the position, review resumes, schedule interviews, and make an offer can take weeks, if not months. With Lemon.io, you can cut down on a lot of that time by tapping into their wide network of developers who can get started in as early as a week.

And for subscribers of Startups For the Rest of Us, you can get 15% off your first 4 week contract with a developer by visiting lemon.io/startups

Topics we cover: 

• 2:01 – Charging for your product using the “honor system”
• 6:16 – Competing against big, entrenched incumbents
• 12:36 – Low-touch vs. high-touch sales strategies
• 17:01 – Selling as an introverted founder
• 20:45 – Skipping the “Stair Step” approach to quickly validate a SaaS

Links from the Show: 

• Startups For the Rest of Us | X
• Subscribe to the MicroConf YouTube channel
• Ruben Gamez (@earthlingworks) | X
• The SaaS Playbook
• TinySeed
• Keap
• Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking by Susan Cain
• The Introvert's Edge: How the Quiet and Shy Can Outsell Anyone by Matthew Pollard
• The Stair Step Method of Bootstrapping
• Episode 628 | The 5 P.M. Idea Validation Framework
• Ask a Question on SFTROU

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 690, join Rob Walling for another solo adventure where he answers listener questions. He advises on the ethical considerations of email marketing and answers how he would value a business when buying out a partner. He also addresses the best ways to collect customer feedback and the value of high-fidelity customer calls.

Episode Sponsor:

Going from an idea sketched on the back of a napkin to a robust, stable product requires a wide range of skills. You can spend ages looking for a one-in-a-million developer who can do it all, or you can quickly ramp up an entire product team to help you build and launch your product with our sponsor - DevSquad.

DevSquad provides an entire development team packed with top talent from Latin America. 

Your elite squad will include between 2 to 6 Full Stack Developers, a technical product manager, plus experts in product strategy, UI/UX design, DevOps, and QA - all working together to make your SaaS Product a success.

You can ramp up an entire product team fast, in your timezone, and at rates 75% cheaper than a comparable US-based team. And with DevSquad, you pay month to month with no long-term contracts. 

Take the hassle out of assembling and managing a sprawling team of freelancers and work with a group that’s ready to hit the ground running.

Visit DevSquad.com/startups and get 10% off your engagement. 

Topics we cover: 

• 2:59 – Emailing users about other projects you are working on
• 9:26 – Avoid sending spam-like emails
• 12:55 – Building a service vs. selling it as an affiliate
• 17:34 – SaaS evaluation after business partner falling out
• 21:25 – The best ways to collect customer feedback
• 25:36 – Determining which group of buyers to sell to, HOA’s or property managers

Links from the Show: 

• The SaaS Playbook
• Ask a Question on SFTROU
• Start Marketing the Day You Start Coding
• The Stair Step Method of Bootstrapping
• Quiet Light
• FE International
• Discretion Capital
• MicroConf Connect
• Producer Xander (@ProducerXander) | X
• Episode 139 | 6 Questions You Should Ask In Your Customer Development Survey

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 689, Rob Walling interviews Robert Cserti, co-founder of SessionLab. Robert and his team provide tools and resources for designing workshops and SessionLab operates fully remote. Rob and Robert discuss strategies for motivating remote teams, fostering team culture and communication, and being intentional about synchronous meetings and team bonding.

Episode Sponsor:

Find your perfect developer or a team at Lemon.io/startups

The competition for incredible engineers and developers has never been more fierce. Lemon.io helps you cut through the noise and find great talent through its network of engineers in Europe and Latin America.

They take care of the vetting, interviewing, and testing of candidates to make sure that you are working with someone who can hit the ground running.

When it comes to hiring, the time it takes to write your job description, list the position, review resumes, schedule interviews, and make an offer can take weeks, if not months. With Lemon.io, you can cut down on a lot of that time by tapping into their wide network of developers who can get started in as early as a week.

And for subscribers of Startups For the Rest of Us, you can get 15% off your first 4 week contract with a developer by visiting lemon.io/startups

Topics we cover: 

• 2:01 – SessionLab, for creating workshops 
• 3:42 – Keeping employee engagement high in remote teams, intentionally creating a workplace culture.
• 7:15 – Daily check-ins, synchronous vs. asynchronous communication
• 10:32 – Finding a cadence for synchronous calls and “all-hands”
• 13:20 – Planning in team retreats
• 15:18 – Meetings specifically for team bonding
• 18:42 – Regularly scheduled, random 1:1 social chats
• 21:05 – Experimenting with tools to facilitate communication and identify issues early
• 26:02 – Managing synchronous working overlap across time zones

Links from the Show: 

• Are you considering selling your SaaS business?
• The Psychology of Exiting Your Company 
• Quiet Light
• Robert Cserti | LinkedIn
• SessionLab (@SessionLab) | X
• SessionLab
• SessionLab’s Library of facilitation techniques
• Geekbot
• Cozy Juicy Real
• Donut
• SpatialChat

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 688, Rob Walling interviews Lane Wagner, founder of Boot.dev. Boot.dev is a learning platform gamified to teach backend development. They discuss the journey of bootstrapping Boot.dev, its explosive growth, and its unique business model. Lane also shares challenges of running a B2C business, why he took some funding, and the significance of customer lifetime value over MRR in his business.

Topics we cover: 

• 2:38 – Boot.dev seeing incredible growth
• 3:35 – Growing on YouTube with partnerships
• 5:42 – Teaching Python and Go as a B2C business
• 7:49 – “This is not really SaaS”, considering JTBD
• 11:18 – The beginnings of Boot.dev, serving the backend niche
• 14:21 – Gaining the confidence to quit the day job
• 15:51 – Deciding to raise funding and “mostly” bootstrap
• 20:31 – Enduring hardship before turning the corner on growth
• 26:38 – Finding the right revenue metric for the business

Links from the Show: 

• MicroConf US - Atlanta - April 21 - 23, 2024
• Interested in Sponsoring MicroConf Content?
• Subscribe for Exclusive Episodes
• Lane from Boot.dev (@wagslane) | X
• Boot.dev
• Profitable, at last!
• Purple Cow by Seth Godin

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 687, join Rob Walling for a solo adventure where discusses a variety of topics. He revisits a recent episode to add one more item to the list of things founders should never do. Rob also offers a hot take on Meta’s new subscription plans and weighs in on a Hacker News post about doing things that don’t scale.

Episode Sponsor:

Find your perfect developer or a team at Lemon.io/startups

The competition for incredible engineers and developers has never been more fierce. Lemon.io helps you cut through the noise and find great talent through its network of engineers in Europe and Latin America.

They take care of the vetting, interviewing, and testing of candidates to make sure that you are working with someone who can hit the ground running.

When it comes to hiring, the time it takes to write your job description, list the position, review resumes, schedule interviews, and make an offer can take weeks, if not months. With Lemon.io, you can cut down on a lot of that time by tapping into their wide network of developers who can get started in as early as a week.

And for subscribers of Startups For the Rest of Us, you can get 15% off your first 4 week contract with a developer by visiting lemon.io/startups

Topics we cover: 

• 1:50 – There’s one more thing that founders should never do
• 8:44 – Facebook and Instagram will offer a subscription for no ads
• 12:42 – Ask HN: Paul Graham’s “Do Things That Don’t Scale”
• 19:53 – Lugg, doing what it takes to prove out an idea

Links from the Show: 

• MicroConf Connect
• Episode 685 | 7 Things You Should Never Do (A Rob Solo Adventure)
• Ruben Gamez (@earthlingworks) | X
• TinySeed
• Facebook and Instagram To Offer Subscription for No Ads in Europe 
• Ask HN: PG's 'Do Things That Don't Scale' manual examples?
• Do Things that Don't Scale
• Lugg

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 686, join Rob Walling for another solo adventure where he answers listener questions. He answers how to evaluate monetary success, combat hedonic adaptation, and how to evaluate the capabilities of technical co-founders. Rob also discusses whether outsourcing sales and marketing is possible and considers some alternative no-code approaches. 

Topics we cover: 

• 4:20 – Success after stair-stepping, confronting hedonic adaptation
• 15:35 – Sales funnels, friction before demos, and collecting email addresses
• 19:24 – Outsourcing marketing and sales
• 23:54 – Evaluating the technical capabilities of your technical co-founder(s)
• 29:41 – Reducing the platform risk of developing in typical no-code tools

Links from the Show: 

• State of Independent SaaS Survey and Report
• MicroConf Local in Austin
• MicroConf Connect
• Bernard Huang (@bernardjhuang) | X
• WP Engine (@wpengine) | X
• Tracy Osborn (@tracymakes) | X
• The Stair Step Method of Bootstrapping
• Start Small, Stay Small: A Developer's Guide to Launching a Startup 
• The SaaS Playbook
• This Took 11 Years to Be An "Overnight Success" - SaaS Exit Strategy
• Once 

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 685, Rob Walling goes solo to share his insights on 7 common mistakes that SaaS founders make. Be sure to listen to the end to hear Rob’s spicy take on launching a portfolio of products to see what sticks.

Episode Sponsor:

As a founder your plate is full. So when you have to hire devs, there’s no time to search for that perfect culture-fit, get-things-done developer. Lemon.io’s new product, Lemon Hire saves founders time by connecting them with a pipeline of 80K+ senior engineers. Each dev is filtered through a 4-step vetting process, available to interview within 48 hours of choosing, and backed by a 30-day replacement guarantee.

Find your great-fit candidates fast with Lemon Hire. Claim a special discount for our fans. Visit  https://lemon.io/hire/, sign up, and mention “Startups” to receive $2000 off your first hire.

Topics we cover: 

• 1:29 – Sign the National Association of Manufacturers Letter, Section 174
• 3:52 – Compiling a list of things founders shouldn’t do
• 6:49 – B2C applications, “the worst of all the worlds”
• 9:42 – Don’t build a second product if your first has stopped growing
• 10:40 – Defining a new category of software is usually a bad idea 
• 19:59 – Avoid multi-language support
• 24:13 – Dig deep to find root causes beyond the symptoms
• 27:41 – The portfolio approach

Links from the Show: 

• The Small Software Business Alliance
• MicroConf Remote
• The SaaS Playbook
• Dan Andrews (@TropicalMBA) | X
• Episode 681 | Why Launching a Second Product is Usually a Bad Idea
• Inbound Marketing by Brian Halligan and Dharmesh Shah

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 684, Rob Walling is joined by Dr. Sherry Walling to share their experience from MicroConf Europe 2023 in Lisbon. They discuss a continued shift in MicroConf’s focus towards fostering founder connections and networking, and the value of face-to-face interactions. Rob and Sherry reflect on their own talks and highlight others by fellow founders and attendees. 

Topics we cover: 

• 1:28 – Reflecting on MicroConf locations
• 6:28 – Continuous event improvements, focus on community
• 9:41 – Michelle Hanson’s talk “Frameworks For Making Product and Strategic Company Decisions”
• 10:38 – Rob’s talk about the five stages of customer awareness
• 13:21 – Einar Vollset’s talk on applying AI iteratively to solve problems
• 15:07 – QuietLight’s live business valuation
• 16:39 – Attendee talks from Sophie, Johannes Akhison, and more
• 19:25 – Dr. Sherry Walling discusses motivational archetypes
• 22:46 – Steven Craven’s founder story

Links from the Show: 

• Rob Walling (@robwalling) | X
• Sherry Walling (@sherrywalling) | X
• Sherrywalling.com
• Dr. Sherry Walling | YouTube
• MicroConf Remote
• Einar Vollset (@einarvollset) | X
• Michele Hansen (@mjwhansen) | X
• Powered by Search (@poweredbysearch) | X
• David Newell | Quiet Light
• thisissophie.com
• Johannes Åkesson – “How Consulting Gave Me Time to Nail Product-Market Fit.”
• Stephen Craven (@stephen_craven) | X
• Stridist
• Producer Xander (@ProducerXander) | X

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 683, join Rob Walling for another solo adventure where he answers listener questions. He addresses gathering feedback from customers that are reluctant to give it to you, whether to bring on a partner, and the value of going to in-person events. Rob also covers topics such as equity for advisors, pricing strategies, & productized services.

Episode Sponsor:

Find your perfect developer or a team at Lemon.io/startups

The competition for incredible engineers and developers has never been more fierce. Lemon.io helps you cut through the noise and find great talent through its network of engineers in Europe and Latin America.

They take care of the vetting, interviewing, and testing of candidates to make sure that you are working with someone who can hit the ground running.

When it comes to hiring, the time it takes to write your job description, list the position, review resumes, schedule interviews, and make an offer can take weeks, if not months. With Lemon.io, you can cut down on a lot of that time by tapping into their wide network of developers who can get started in as early as a week.

And for subscribers of Startups For the Rest of Us, you can get 15% off your first 4 week contract with a developer by visiting lemon.io/startups

Topics we cover: 

• 1:56 – Gathering feedback from reluctant customers
• 8:47 – When to bring in other partners
• 12:45 – Weighing the positives and negatives of going to trade shows
• 15:36 – Staying energized and motivated
• 17:51 – Offering pre-launch discounts vs. offering value-added product
• 22:08 – Charging for products in different currencies
• 23:37 – Productized service, pricing, and pausing
• 26:40 – Fractional CTOs and equity grants 

Links from the Show: 

• MicroConf Mastermind Matching
• MicroConf Connect
• The SaaS Playbook
• Episode 671 | Working on What Matters, Left-handed Threads, and Being Lucky (A Rob Solo Adventure)

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 682, Rob Walling interviews Alex Theuma, the founder of SaaStock, a conference for SaaS founders. They discuss the challenges of bootstrapping an event and the pros and cons of large startup events versus small startup events. Alex also shares his experience of building credibility and authority in the industry, the importance of maintaining a positive attendee experience, and ensuring financial sustainability.

Episode Sponsor:

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Topics we cover: 

• 2:44 – How Alex bootstrapped SaaStock in the early stages
• 4:32 – Laying the groundwork and building credibility
• 6:59 – Figuring out sponsor subsidies
• 8:53 – Reflecting on the first event, growing afterwards
• 12:59 – Event sizing and event types
• 19:44 – Setting up event programming
• 23:00 – Swapping crazy event stories

Links from the Show: 

• Microconf Mastermind Matching
• SaaStock
• SaaStock (@SaaStock) | X
• SaaStock |  LinkedIn
• Alex Theuma (@alextheuma) | X
• The SaaS Revolution Show
• ChartMogul
• Web Summit
• ProfitWell
• Dunbar's number
• SaaS.City
• Muck Rack
• Patrick Campbell’s “Churn” talk

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 681, Rob Walling and Ruben Gamez go deep on the drawbacks of launching a second product. They both generally advise against doing so, as it can distract from the existing product. However they do share some successful attempts, strategic insights, how to approach feedback on second ideas, and the benefits for founders that beat the odds.

Topics we cover: 

• 1:31 – When you should launch a second product
• 5:32 – Ruben’s experience growing Bidsketch and SignWell
• 9:45 – Responding to market pull, avoid the sunk cost fallacy
• 12:26 – Dividing attention between multiple products
• 16:40 – Choosing when to split focus
• 21:13 – Why a second product worked for Ruben and others
• 28:54 – Gauging your product intuition and getting outside feedback
• 32:50 – Avoiding bias when receiving feedback on your ideas
• 38:21 – Strategies and goals for adding a second product
• 42:50 – Cross selling multiple products

Links from the Show: 

• MicroConf US Tickets are on sale
• Ruben Gamez (@earthlingworks) | X
• Episode 499 | The (First) Six Stages of SaaS Growth – Part 1
• Intelligent Editing
• SignWell (@SignWellApp) | X
• Bidsketch
• SignWell
• Stratosphere
• finchat.io
• David Cancel (@dcancel) | X
• The SaaS Playbook

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 680, Rob Walling goes solo again, covering a wide variety of topics including listening to customers, but not necessarily their solutions. He also cautions against making decisions based on one customer's feedback, but listening to the crowd. Finally, Rob highlights the importance of doing whatever it takes to succeed as a founder.

Episode Sponsor:

Find your perfect developer or a team at Lemon.io/startups

The competition for incredible engineers and developers has never been more fierce. Lemon.io helps you cut through the noise and find great talent through its network of engineers in Europe and Latin America.

They take care of the vetting, interviewing, and testing of candidates to make sure that you are working with someone who can hit the ground running.

When it comes to hiring, the time it takes to write your job description, list the position, review resumes, schedule interviews, and make an offer can take weeks, if not months. With Lemon.io, you can cut down on a lot of that time by tapping into their wide network of developers who can get started in as early as a week.

And for subscribers of Startups For the Rest of Us, you can get 15% off your first 4 week contract with a developer by visiting lemon.io/startups

Topics we cover: 

• 1:52 – Paying attention to customer problems, not customer solutions
• 6:52 – Don’t listen to a customer, always listen to your customers
• 9:42 – Finding product market fit with limited information
• 13:01 – Identifying the appropriate time to grind out the work
• 19:18 – Don’t be above “taking out the trash”

Links from the Show: 

• MicroConf Connect
• Ruben Gamez (@earthlingworks) | X
• Ruben’s repost of @sequence_film
• ComicLab (@ComicLabPodcast) | X
• Dave Kellett (@davekellett) | X
• Brad Guigar (@guigar) | X
• The SaaS Playbook

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 679.5, Rob shares seven announcements about the future of MicroConf in the upcoming year. 

Whether you're a long-time supporter or a new member of our crew of misfits, you know we're all about empowering bootstrapped SaaS entrepreneurs.

For nearly a decade, we've been fueling the permissionless entrepreneurship movement that's gripped founders worldwide - and we're nowhere close to finished.

Our next big leap is coming, and you won't want to miss it.

If you want to get the inside scoop, and to keep up to date as we roll out all of these offerings, head over to https://www.futureofmicroconf.com/.

Topics we cover: 

• 2:03 – MicroConf Connect has leveled up, and is accepting new signups
• 2:41 – The return of The State of Independent SaaS Report
• 3:21 – Community voting for MicroConf Local 2024 cities
• 3:50 – New course launch, “Starting Up From Idea to Traction”
• 4:21 – MicroConf co-founder matching coming soon
• 4:58 – Host your team retreat with MicroConf’s Team Sync
• 5:28 – MicroConf Platinum Events for an exclusive and intimate experience

Links from the Show: 

• Sign up to get notified for MicroConf updates
• MicroConf Connect
• Rob Walling (@robwalling) | X
• MicroConf (@MicroConf) | X
• MicroConf YouTube Channel
• MicroConf On Air Podcast
• MicroConf Mastermind Matching
• State of Independent SaaS (2022)
• DemandMaven
• MicroConf Local
• TinySeed

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 679, join Rob Walling for another solo adventure where he answers listener questions. He discusses how “mock features” can be implemented to close deals with certain buying dynamics, how to recover from a failed launch, and the benefits of phased launches to minimize those. Rob also gives advice on creating organic content for a SaaS and suggests alternative marketing strategies to content creation. Finally, he covers what an engineer might encounter during an acquisition in a small startup and how to dive into consulting and contracting.

Topics we cover: 

• 3:43 – Mock features for B2B SaaS
• 6:20 – Recovering from a failed launch
• 10:37 – Advice for a consumer-facing “vitamin” product
• 12:53 – Creating content to market SaaS tools
• 17:13 – Acquisitions for startups with small engineering teams
• 20:24 – Consulting for junior and mid-level engineers

Links from the Show: 

• The SaaS Playbook
• MicroConf Connect Applications are Open!
• Episode 671 | Working on What Matters, Left-handed Threads, and Being Lucky (A Rob Solo Adventure)
• Ab Advany’s “Mock Features for B2B SaaS”

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 678, join Rob Walling for another solo adventure where he answers listener questions. He answers how he might find buyers for a half-done SaaS product, addresses platform risk that accompanies no-code development, and shares insights on bookkeeping for SaaS startups. Rob also details what frameworks new marketers should be looking into and gives advice on launching a new SaaS tool to an email list.

Episode Sponsor:

Find your perfect developer or a team at Lemon.io/startups

The competition for incredible engineers and developers has never been more fierce. Lemon.io helps you cut through the noise and find great talent through its network of engineers in Europe and Latin America.

They take care of the vetting, interviewing, and testing of candidates to make sure that you are working with someone who can hit the ground running.

When it comes to hiring, the time it takes to write your job description, list the position, review resumes, schedule interviews, and make an offer can take weeks, if not months. With Lemon.io, you can cut down on a lot of that time by tapping into their wide network of developers who can get started in as early as a week.

And for subscribers of Startups For the Rest of Us, you can get 15% off your first 4 week contract with a developer by visiting lemon.io/startups

Topics we cover: 

• 3:10 – Where can I sell partially developed SaaS apps?
• 7:42 – Evaluating higher platform risk inherent in no-code apps
• 11:44 – Approaches to bookkeeping early on in your SaaS business 
• 14:47 – Setting up a marketing engine for those with little experience
• 20:43 – Launching a new product to an email list with a phased approach

Links from the Show: 

• Apply for TinySeed
• Join Us For A Big MicroConf Announcement
• The SaaS Playbook
• MicroConf Connect
• Acquire.com
• #1 Mistake No-Code SaaS Founders Make - Don't Build Without THIS
• Episode 642 | The Pros and Cons of Building a No-Code MVP
• Bench.co
• Xero.com
• Traction by Gabriel Weinberg, Justin Mares
• Hacking Growth by Sean Ellis, Morgan Brown
• Postaga
• Episode 670 | Relying on Luck, Avoiding Burnout, and Bad Player vs. Bad Instrument (A Rob Solo Adventure)
• How to Build SaaS from Scratch in 8 Simplified Steps
• How to Validate Your Idea & Launch to $7k in Recurring Revenue – Rob Walling – MicroConf 2014

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 677, Tracy Osborn interviews Leon Barnard from Balsamiq about wireframing and design. They discuss the book "Wireframing for Everyone" written by Leon and his co-authors from Balsamiq and they emphasize the value of low-fidelity wireframes for founders. They also cover how wireframing can improve ideation and communication processes among teams. To wrap up, they recommend resources for non-designers interested in learning more about wireframing and design.

Episode Sponsor:

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Topics we cover: 

• 3:29 – TinySeed applications for Fall 2023 are open
• 5:00 – Leon’s passion for wireframing 
• 8:32 – Designing in low fidelity wireframes
• 11:03 – Wireframing, ideation, and iteration
• 16:21 – Communicating design with wireframing
• 21:22 – Using wireframing to iterate on already existing, high fidelity content
• 24:35 – Writing about wireframing within the broader context of general design principles
• 28:16 – Additional resources for non-designers to gain confidence in design
• 32:36 – Asking questions informs good design

Links from the Show: 

• MicroConf is leveling up!
• Tracy Osborn (@tracymakes) | X
• Leon Barnard (@leonbarnard) | X
• Leon Barnard | LinkedIn
• Balsamiq (@balsamiq) | X
• Wireframing for Everyone by Michael Angeles, Leon Barnard, and Billy Carlson
• Balsamiq Wireframing Academy
• Sketching User Experiences by Bill Buxton
• Don’t Make Me Think by Steve Krug
• UX for Lean Startups by Laura Klein

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 676, join Rob Walling for a solo adventure where he answers more listener questions. He answers questions around the inflated valuations in the B2B SaaS market, choosing between ideas, and validating a SaaS idea before building. Rob wraps up evaluating the effectiveness of building a podcast or YouTube following prior to launch.

Topics we cover: 

• 0:56 – TinySeed applications for fall 2023 batch
• 1:42 – The Future of MicroConf announcement event
• 2:13 – Why are B2B SaaS valuations so high?
• 10:43 – Choosing between two software ideas
• 15:02 – Don’t start a two-sided marketplace
• 17:04 – Do my “Stair Steps” have to be related?
• 19:47 – Co-founder equity splits and founder agreements
• 24:56 – Idea validation techniques
• 28:02 – Starting a podcast to building an audience

Links from the Show: 

• The SaaS Playbook
• TinySeed
• Future of MicroConf
• The UpFlip Podcast
• 27. How to Build a Thriving Software Company (From Scratch)
• Quiet Light, Empire Flippers, FE international
• Castos Productions
• Nolo, Rocket Lawyer, Lexgo
• Slicing Pie
• Episode 671 | Working on What Matters, Left-handed Threads, and Being Lucky (A Rob Solo Adventure)
• The Stair Step Method of Bootstrapping
• Traction by Gino Wickman
• Hacking Growth by Sean Brown, Morgan, Ellis

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 675, Rob Walling interviews Stephen Steers, author of "Superpower Storytelling." They discuss Stephen’s experience in selling and teaching startups how to sell better. They cover Stephen’s storytelling “AREA” framework and the concept of the problem stack. They also talk about when founders should consider delegating sales, the importance of documenting successful sales processes, and using humor in the sales process.

Episode Sponsor:

Find your perfect developer or a team at Lemon.io/startups

The competition for incredible engineers and developers has never been more fierce. Lemon.io helps you cut through the noise and find great talent through its network of engineers in Europe and Latin America.

They take care of the vetting, interviewing, and testing of candidates to make sure that you are working with someone who can hit the ground running.

When it comes to hiring, the time it takes to write your job description, list the position, review resumes, schedule interviews, and make an offer can take weeks, if not months. With Lemon.io, you can cut down on a lot of that time by tapping into their wide network of developers who can get started in as early as a week.

And for subscribers of Startups For the Rest of Us, you can get 15% off your first 4 week contract with a developer by visiting lemon.io/startups

Topics we cover: 

• 1:36 – Start Small, Stay Small
• 3:21 – Stephen’s book, Superpower Storytelling, and how to tell the story of you and your company
• 4:30 – Why is storytelling important for startups
• 7:47 – A valuable background in sales consulting
• 10:35 – The AREA mental framework
• 13:21 – The “problem stack”
• 18:42 – When to outsource sales in your organization
• 22:37 – The four reasons that businesses buy, consultative selling
• 28:01 – Using humor to your advantage when selling or as a founder

Links from the Show: 

• Stephen Steers | LinkedIn
• Steers Sales Consulting
• Superpower Storytelling by Stephen Steers
• Start Small, Stay Small by Rob Walling
• Made to Stick by Chip Heath & Dan Heath
• Taki Moore (@takimoore) | Twitter
• Scott Sambucci (@scottsambucci) | Twitter

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 674, ​​join Rob Walling, Einar Vollset, and Tracy Osborn for Hot Take Tuesday, where they analyze and discuss some of the latest news. They talk about Elon rebranding Twitter to X and the emergence of Instagram's Threads. They also cover the pros and cons of taking VC and SparkToro's unique funding model and paying back investors.

Topics we cover: 

• 2:49 – Twitter is now X
• 5:53 – Does the rebranding make sense?
• 12:15 – Instagram launches Threads
• 19:18 – SparkToro pays back investors
• 26:04 – Planning ahead for the payback
• 28:53 – “Don’t take VC funding”
• 35:11 – “We Raised a Bunch of Money”

Links from the Show: 

• Tracy Osborn (@tracymakes) | Twitter
• Einar Vollset (@einarvollset) | Twitter
• The SaaS Playbook
• TinySeed
• Twitter is being rebranded as X
• Introducing Threads: A New Way to Share with Text
• Rand Fishkin (@randfish ) |Twitter
• Casey Henry (@caseyhen) |Twitter
• SparkToro
• Postpone
• SparkToro Year 3 Retrospective: Investor Payback, Systemic Challenges, and V2 on the Way
• Lost and Founder by Rand Fishkin
• Fly.io
• We Raised A Bunch Of Money

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 673, Rob Walling chats with Ruben Gamez, the founder of SignWell, as they answer listener questions. They cover topics related to pricing models for SaaS products, marketing strategies for new products, the concept of copycat apps, and the challenges of balancing customer requests with product development. Additionally, they address a question about choosing between working at a startup or a big tech company.

Episode Sponsor:

Find your perfect developer or a team at Lemon.io/startups

The competition for incredible engineers and developers has never been more fierce. Lemon.io helps you cut through the noise and find great talent through its network of engineers in Europe and Latin America.

They take care of the vetting, interviewing, and testing of candidates to make sure that you are working with someone who can hit the ground running.

When it comes to hiring, the time it takes to write your job description, list the position, review resumes, schedule interviews, and make an offer can take weeks, if not months. With Lemon.io, you can cut down on a lot of that time by tapping into their wide network of developers who can get started in as early as a week.

And for subscribers of Startups For the Rest of Us, you can get 15% off your first 4 week contract with a developer by visiting lemon.io/startups

Topics we cover: 

• 2:06 – Lifetime value pricing vs. monthly recurring revenue
• 11:33 – Pay-as-you-go as an alternative to lifetime or SaaS pricing
• 14:30 – Testing the market with a landing page
• 22:16 – Getting feedback from landing page signups
• 25:11 – Marketing strategies for SaaS
• 32:53 – Building copycat apps
• 38:51 – Startup roles vs. roles in a big tech company as a software engineer
• 43:33 – Balancing customer needs with our strategic roadmap

Links from the Show: 

• MicroConf Sponsorships
• The SaaS Playbook
• Ruben Gamez (@earthlingworks) | Twitter
• SignWell (@SignWellApp) |Twitter
• SignWell
• Hackers Incorporated, E4 | Lifetime pricing is underrated
• AppSumo
• Tailwind UI
• Loadster
• How to Grow Your Self Funded Business Faster – Hiten Shah – MicroConf 2014

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 672, Rob Walling speaks with Jon Hainstock, M&A advisor at Quiet Light and previously ZoomShift. They discuss Jon’s bootstrapper journey, his exit from ZoomShift, the benefits of buying versus building, and how he helps other founders sell their businesses at Quiet Light. To wrap up, Jon exposes some common pitfalls to avoid when buying businesses.

Topics we cover: 

• 2:17 – Timeline of building and selling ZoomShift
• 6:07 – Deciding to sell ZoomShift
• 11:06 – Jumping into a new project immediately after exit
• 17:16 – Acquiring small assets
• 19:16 – Picking Quiet Light Brokerage over smaller acquisitions
• 26:23 – “Broker” vs. “Advisor”
• 30:26 – What to avoid when buying a business

Links from the Show: 

• The Exit Event
• Jon Hainstock (@jonhainstock) | Twitter
• Quiet Light (@quietlightinc) | Twitter
• ZoomShift
• ChatterDocs.ai
• Quiet Light
• Finish Big by Bo Burlingham
• Acquire.com, formerly MicroAcquire
• Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert T. Kiyosaki
• The Quiet Light Podcast

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 671, join Rob Walling for another solo adventure where he covers a variety of topics. First, he shares an example of why successful founders move the needle rather than staying in their comfort zone. He shares an anecdote about discovering left-handed threads and how it applies to startups, and wraps up with some thoughts on the role of luck in audience building. 

Episode Sponsor:

Find your perfect developer or a team at Lemon.io/startups

The competition for incredible engineers and developers has never been more fierce. Lemon.io helps you cut through the noise and find great talent through its network of engineers in Europe and Latin America.

They take care of the vetting, interviewing, and testing of candidates to make sure that you are working with someone who can hit the ground running.

When it comes to hiring, the time it takes to write your job description, list the position, review resumes, schedule interviews, and make an offer can take weeks, if not months. With Lemon.io, you can cut down on a lot of that time by tapping into their wide network of developers who can get started in as early as a week.

And for subscribers of Startups For the Rest of Us, you can get 15% off your first 4 week contract with a developer by visiting lemon.io/startups

Topics we cover: 

• 1:56 – Moving the needle rather than staying comfortable
• 11:10 – First time discovering left-handed threads
• 19:15 – Building an audience doesn’t require luck

Links from the Show: 

• MicroConf
• MicroConf Connect
• The SaaS Playbook
• Episode 670 | Relying on Luck, Avoiding Burnout, and Bad Player vs. Bad Instrument (A Rob Solo Adventure)
• Joel Spolsky (@spolsky) | Twitter
• TinySeed
• How to Build SaaS from Scratch in 8 Simplified Steps

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 670, join Rob Walling for another solo adventure, where he discusses why, while striking luck in your SaaS journey is great, working hard and building skills is the sustainable way to build businesses for the long haul. He also shares his personal approach to work when burnout is on the horizon and finally an anecdote relating to SaaS marketing approaches.

Topics we cover: 

• 0:41 – RSS feed issues, undesirable startup tasks
• 2:52 – Two exclusive episodes of Startups For the Rest of Us
• 3:39 – Success takes hard work, luck, and skill
• 11:00 – The grind of content creation, burnout on the horizon
• 21:38 – Bad player or bad instrument?

Links from the Show: 

• Episode 667 | Increase Your Exit Price by Decoupling Yourself from Your Business with John Warrillow
• Castos
• Sugarcult – “Stuck in America”
• MicroConf YouTube Channel
• MicroConf On Air Podcast
• Sherry Walling (@sherrywalling) | Twitter
• The Entrepreneur’s Guide to Keeping Your Sh*t Together
• TinySeed

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 669, Rob Walling chats with Rick Hymanson, founder of detamoov and previously Shugo. They discuss Rick’s exit from Shugo in 2018 in what Rob calls “ten years to overnight success”. Rick recounts an early pivot for the company in finding product market fit, building the business with a day job, the logistics of the exit, and why he’s excited to join TinySeed with detamoov.

Episode Sponsor:

Find your perfect developer or a team at Lemon.io/startups

The competition for incredible engineers and developers has never been more fierce. Lemon.io helps you cut through the noise and find great talent through its network of engineers in Europe and Latin America.

They take care of the vetting, interviewing, and testing of candidates to make sure that you are working with someone who can hit the ground running.

When it comes to hiring, the time it takes to write your job description, list the position, review resumes, schedule interviews, and make an offer can take weeks, if not months. With Lemon.io, you can cut down on a lot of that time by tapping into their wide network of developers who can get started in as early as a week.

And for subscribers of Startups For the Rest of Us, you can get 15% off your first 4 week contract with a developer by visiting lemon.io/startups

Topics we cover: 

• 1:59 – How Rick felt after exiting Shugo
• 5:10 – Deciding to start detamoov after the exit
• 7:09 – Creating a Shugo MVP and pivoting
• 11:15 – Building a SaaS product while working a day job
• 15:34 – Transitioning to full time and growing Shugo ARR
• 20:28 – Expanding the product feature set
• 22:11 – When did you know you had product-market fit?
• 23:28 – Finding an acquirer and navigating the process
• 27:38 – Starting and growing datamoov
• 31:12 – The value of relationship building
• 34:43 – IP ownership agreements

Links from the Show: 

• Rick Hymanson | LinkedIn
• detamoov
• The SaaS Playbook
• TinySeed

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Google

In episode 668, Rob Walling and Arvid Kahl share nine key takeaways from MicroConf US 2023 in Denver. They cover topics ranging from founder mental health, shared motivations for bootstrapping, the value of in-person conferences, and the MicroConf experimentation that led to the “Chaos Lunch”.

Topics we cover: 

• 2:04 – MicroConf 2023 in Denver, building back after COVID
• 9:09 – Founders are sharing an experience of struggles and pivots
• 11:21 – Why nothing beats being in a room together
• 14:07 – Discussing mental health in a welcoming environment
• 17:07 – How experimentation on the MicroConf format led to “Chaos Lunch”
• 21:03  – Sharing strategies and tactics, Dev Basu’s talk on product marketing
• 24:28 – What motivations do founders have for running their SaaS businesses
• 27:27 – Arvid’s workshop encourages discussion of founder mental health  
• 30:22 – MicroConf’s powerful Hallway track
• 32:45 – Patrick Campbell’s talk on mental frameworks and founder paths
• 36:47 – Upcoming MicroConf events
• 40:05 – The not-so-hidden track: Arvid’s Twitter growth and strategy

Links from the Show: 

• MicroConf US 2024 | Atlanta, GA | April 21 - 23, 2024
• MicroConf US Recordings
• Arvid Kahl (@arvidkahl) I Twitter
• Episode 492 | From Zero to $55k MRR to Exit (in 2 Years) with Feedback Panda
• thebootstrappedfounder.com
• Lianna Patch (@punchlinecopy) | Twitter
• Claire Suellentrop (@ClaireSuellen) | Twitter
• Dev Basu (@devbasu) | Twitter
• Patrick Campbell (@Patticus) Twitter
• John Ndege (@johnndege) | Twitter
• Comte Anthony Eden (@aeden) | Twitter
• Quiet Light (@quietlightinc) | Twitter
• Sherry Walling (@sherrywalling) | Twitter

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

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In episode 667, Rob Walling speaks with John Warrillow, author of Built to Sell, about validating and launching his second SaaS business, VidGuide. They cover how Standard Operating Procedures can help your business, from leading toward better exits to easing your burden as a founder.

Topics we cover: 

• 2:59 – Why John decided to launch VidGuide
• 7:23 – Validating and positioning a “scratch-your-own-itch” SaaS idea
• 13:45 – Considerations for novel software solutions
• 18:27 – Success stories of others and their SOPs
• 22:42 – John’s early validation for VidGuide
• 26:13 – Following April Dunford’s methodology for positioning

Links from the Show:

• John Warrillow (@JohnWarrillow) I Twitter
• Built To Sell by John Warrillow
• The Automatic Customer by John Warrillow
• The Art of Selling Your Business by John Warrillow
• The ValueBuilder System
• Built to Sell Radio
• VidGuide
• Episode 532 | The Art of Selling Your Business with John Warrillow
• Episode 603 | Bootstrapping HotJar to $40M ARR Using D2C Marketing
• Episode 492 | From Zero to $55k MRR to Exit (in 2 Years) with Feedback Panda
• Ten Year Career by Jodie Cook
• MicroConf Refresh Episode 60: How to Craft a Story that Sells with April Dunford

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

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In episode 666, Rob Walling chats with fan favorite Derrick Reimer, the founder of SavvyCal, as they answer listener questions. They cover topics ranging from idea validation in competitive spaces to book recommendations to development strategies for non-technical founders.

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Topics we cover: 

• 1:05 – How to validate ideas in competitive markets
• 7:49 – How to manage stress when growing a small SaaS business
• 15:48 – Finding a technical co-founder vs. outsourcing development
• 28:24 – How to decide between doubling down on a current project or starting a new SaaS app
• 34:15 – Tools for tracking traffic, conversions, and A/B test results
• 40:21 – Recommended reading for SaaS startups

Links from the Show:

• Derrick Reimer (@derrickreimer) I Twitter
• SavvyCal 
• The Mom Test by Rob Fitzpatrick
• Ruben Gamez (@earthlingworks) | Twitter
• Pieter Levels (@levelsio) | Twitter
• Danny Postma (@dannypostmaa) | Twitter
• Fathom Analytics, Mixpanel, Heap, Segmetrics.io, June
• Optimizely, VWO, Hotjar, Crazy Egg
• Obviously Awesome by April Dunford
• Traction by Gabriel Weinberg and Justin Mares
• Founding Sales by Peter R Kazanjy
• Lost and Founder by Rand Fishkin
• The 1-Page Marketing Plan by Allan Dib
• Demand-Side Sales 101 by Bob Moesta
• The SaaS Playbook by Rob Walling
• Getting Real by 37signals
• Derrick Reimer’s Books for Founders
• 12 Books EVERY SaaS Founder Should Read This Year...

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you!

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In episode 665, Rob Walling chats with Georgiana Laudi, who is the co-author of the new book, Forget the Funnel. They dive deep into key concepts from the book, including specific Jobs-to-be-done interview examples and how to apply these insights to your marketing strategy.

They also chat a bit about the process of writing a book.

Topics we cover:

• 2:37 - Gia and Claire's intentional decision to keep the book under 200 pages
• 5:28 - What size SaaS companies will get the most value from Claire and Gia’s new book?
• 9:49 - The customer-led growth framework
• 11:29 - Why you shouldn’t think in terms of marketing funnels
• 15:51- Jobs-to-be done interviews
• 20:27- An approach for founders who are skeptical about customer research and JTBD interviews
• 25:15- How to use information gathered from customer interviews to inform your marketing strategy
• 29:47- What was the experience like recording the audiobook?

Links from the Show:

• Claire Suellentrop @clairesuellen I Twitter
• Georgiana Laudi @ggiiaa) I Twitter
• Forget the Funnel: A Customer-Led Approach for Driving Predictable, Recurring Revenue 
• MicroConf Youtube Channel

If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you.

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